I think people see a game in development. Beyond that, I can't think of a game that has the features SC combined into one seamless game.
There is no MMO space sim with first person where you can walk around on every ship while it flies with thousands of miles per hours through a system, have a fire fight on board whilst other ships try to blast holes in it from the outside. I mean, maybe there is one, but I guess I have missed that. :psyduck:
I think people see a game in development. Beyond that, I can't think of a game that has the features SC combined into one seamless game.
There is no MMO space sim with first person where you can walk around on every ship while it flies with thousands of miles per hours through a system, have a fire fight on board whilst other ships try to blast holes in it from the outside. I mean, maybe there is one, but I guess I have missed that. :psyduck:
The draw of Star Citizen is the freedom from time constraints CIG has and the unique selling point is the fidelity at which the final game will execute its features. While games in the past have created similar products CIG has embarked upon the creation of this type of game at an elevated level. Kick starting this project was the best way to create the game CIG envisioned and with all development that vision changes when you are getting it done. Looking at perhaps one of the best open world games made, Rockstar defined what happens when the developer is not tied to a rigid production schedule and what can happen if you wait until you get right before you release. CIG is executing their production in the same way with the added bonus of communicating while they do this. The fact that they are not settling for just good enough is another draw for this game. Rather that pushing out a rushed product they are truly attempting to release the best of what can be. Regarding their current development time CIG is only in year 4 of what is normally a 5 year cycle on average to produce a new IP. A six year cycle for the development of this game should be expected because of what they are attempting. As well the successive years will bring accelerated production as key feature are created and the heavy lifting is winding down. Now it is completely understandable that this game might not be for everyone but to suggest that CIG is somehow complicit in some scam is about as believable as Elvis still being alive.
So to tl:dr
Draw, unencumbered schedule. USP, fidelity of scope.
Edit. Phone grammars.
I think people see a game in development. Beyond that, I can't think of a game that has the features SC combined into one seamless game.
There is no MMO space sim with first person where you can walk around on every ship while it flies with thousands of miles per hours through a system, have a fire fight on board whilst other ships try to blast holes in it from the outside. I mean, maybe there is one, but I guess I have missed that. :psyduck:
But looking at what has been delivered so far?
What is SC doing that is so much better than anything else in a similar vein?
I think people see a game in development. Beyond that, I can't think of a game that has the features SC combined into one seamless game.
There is no MMO space sim with first person where you can walk around on every ship while it flies with thousands of miles per hours through a system, have a fire fight on board whilst other ships try to blast holes in it from the outside. I mean, maybe there is one, but I guess I have missed that. :psyduck:
Well none of those things are actually working atm. And thus far, there is no indication that they will be. That's the point.
Also, have you played Angels Fall First? No? It's on Steam Early Access. Try it.
I think people see a game in development. Beyond that, I can't think of a game that has the features SC combined into one seamless game.
There is no MMO space sim with first person where you can walk around on every ship while it flies with thousands of miles per hours through a system, have a fire fight on board whilst other ships try to blast holes in it from the outside. I mean, maybe there is one, but I guess I have missed that. :psyduck:
Well none of those things are actually working atm. And thus far, there is no indication that they will be. That's the point.
Also, have you played Angels Fall First? No? It's on Steam Early Access. Try it.
You asked what people see in it. I answered you that: A game in on going development. You can agree to this fact or not. And so far they managed to get *something* done. Some people are okay with that progress, some are not.
Regarding AFF: Yes. It looks like a great game. But it's not an MMO. It's a mixup between Battlefield and Planetside 2. And not what Star Citizen promises as a whole. Like the others said there have been games that did what SC promises. Just not cramped into a single seamless expierence.
uhm, how does any of the above relate to a "game" and the subject of my missive?
Who sees a $134 million "game" here? And if they do, what exactly is the "draw" and USP (Unique Selling Point)?
No one wants Johnny Corporate telling you to put a turtle in the game because his son loves turtles.
I think people see a game in development. Beyond that, I can't think of a game that has the features SC combined into one seamless game.
There is no MMO space sim with first person where you can walk around on every ship while it flies with thousands of miles per hours through a system, have a fire fight on board whilst other ships try to blast holes in it from the outside. I mean, maybe there is one, but I guess I have missed that. :psyduck:
I'd like to welcome Newbest - and differentiate this forum from an echo chamber like Reddit in doing so. Respectful discourse is best.
Newbest - nobody thinks the production companies are fake.
The disconnect is only in one place - Chris. Aside from Wing Commander (a game made so long ago it shipped on 5.25" floppy disks) his history is mixed at best. Once he milked the good will out of his original franchise, he ran everything else into the ground. Even Freelancer, his last reasonable foray into gaming, had to be taken from him and released by a real production company. That was in 2000 - 16 years ago.
Since that time Chris has not been in the gaming industry, and has not learned anything during his absence. Now that he's back, he's literally reinventing and rediscovering almost two decades of gaming lessons first hand, not because gaming best practices have failed to evolve, but because he doesn't think any game developers over a near 20 year period have anything to teach him.
That arrogance led him to commit an extraordinary amount of his backer money into lavish offices in 4 countries across the world, filling them with the accumulated bric-a-brac that actual development companies, such as Blizzard, had to earn over decades of hard work and actual produced, shipped, and commercially successful products and IPs. He skipped all that and went straight for the appearance of success. CIG, as an entity, has no games to its name, shipped or otherwise.
There is no documentation or plan for what the actual game systems are, but instead, what we have are nothing more than potential game assets, that Chris, being out of the industry for too long and refusing to listen to people who know more than him, thinks will plug together like Lego bricks and a game will pop out. The engine is a Frankenstein's monster of garbled code that's barely holding at the seams. Rather than being the typical state of a pre-alpha, CIG's engine, in contrast, gets weaker and more prone to catastrophic failure with every patch.
Chris, in short, has no idea how to turn the ideas in his head into the game he's promised. He knows where he wants to be, but has no idea how to get there. That makes him an inappropriate steward of backer cash. Regardless of whether or not he came up with the idea, whether or not he's the visionary, all that is secondary - if he can't turn that vision into reality, and hand the reins of development and leadership to a competent individual and retain a position as lead designer, rather than CIG godhead, it's extraordinarily unlikely that Star Citizen can fulfill its potential.
Consider other large companies and how close they can come to the edge of oblivion based on leadership decisions. Netflix was doing great, and with one bad decision, nearly ceased to exist overnight. Fortunately in their case they course-corrected in time. And Netflix had a product. How many bad decisions can CIG make, back to back, and stay in business, when they have yet to design a business model built on residual income?
Remember, it's not his money. We might know that, but I don't think Chris Roberts knows that. Or cares.
Lots of stuff.
2) Chris has shown repeatedly that he does not listen to or trust his crew. I'm afraid I don't have specific examples but I suspect many here have several. Has that changed recently? I don't know.
Just don't be one of those guys who loses his shit if this goes tits up - it's not worth it over a video game. I don't get that vibe from your writing, so it's probably not necessary for me to say it, but it doesn't hurt to do so anyway. I don't think some of the current backers are seeing this as optimistically yet still balanced as you - some of these people are going to go mental.
The Hype and all the BS are repeated attempts to buy time. The 'internal schedule', live streams etc are nothing but elaborate Smoke & mirrors, carrots & sticks while they struggle to actually 'produce' something functional out of the behemoth of bs.
I promise if this were to implode it will not affect my day to day at all.
Chris is as passionate about games as Derek is and you can be sure Derek leads in the same way as Chris. His vision is the vision. Perhaps this is why there is so much discord, because Chris has managed to harness the ability to create the game he loves and knows that others love as well. Derek unfortunately has not had this opportunity.
They dont need to buy time, they can take all the time they like. And lets remember they dont want to take up all the time. They want to release the game, they really do.
The disconnect is only in one place - Chris. Aside from Wing Commander (a game made so long ago it shipped on 5.25" floppy disks) his history is mixed at best. Once he milked the good will out of his original franchise, he ran everything else into the ground. Even Freelancer, his last reasonable foray into gaming, had to be taken from him and released by a real production company. That was in 2000 - 16 years ago.
This is an understandable stance to take if you have never developed video games before. While agreed he produced games 16 years ago those games were very successful when released and seem to be still enjoyed to this day. The Wing Commander Series was an excellent set of games when released. Having been around for when they were released they were some of the best games available to play on the systems at the time. Origin as a whole was producing fantastic games in that era. Game design is like riding a bike, you do not forget how to do it. What Chris may lack in technical understanding he makes up for by hiring people that can fill those voids and get the job done.
Since that time Chris has not been in the gaming industry, and has not learned anything during his absence. Now that he's back, he's literally reinventing and rediscovering almost two decades of gaming lessons first hand, not because gaming best practices have failed to evolve, but because he doesn't think any game developers over a near 20 year period have anything to teach him.
That arrogance led him to commit an extraordinary amount of his backer money into lavish offices in 4 countries across the world, filling them with the accumulated bric-a-brac that actual development companies, such as Blizzard, had to earn over decades of hard work and actual produced, shipped, and commercially successful products and IPs. He skipped all that and went straight for the appearance of success. CIG, as an entity, has no games to its name, shipped or otherwise.
CIG needs offices to work, having non-dumpy offices help get work done as employees enjoy working in a nice space. As well, when moving forward and looking to the future all capital expenses around offices only help with optics when it comes to attracting other investors. Would you want to work in a dump? Bric-a-brac will come in from everyone that works there. Game developers are notorious for bringing in man dolls and the like.
There is no documentation or plan for what the actual game systems are, but instead, what we have are nothing more than potential game assets, that Chris, being out of the industry for too long and refusing to listen to people who know more than him, thinks will plug together like Lego bricks and a game will pop out. The engine is a Frankenstein's monster of garbled code that's barely holding at the seams. Rather than being the typical state of a pre-alpha, CIG's engine, in contrast, gets weaker and more prone to catastrophic failure with every patch.
Never, ever, ever, ;) has a game developer ever released design docs while working on a project. Those are 100% internal documents ment for employees eyes only. Seeing as none of us work at CIG we are unfit to comment on the state of the current game design. Chris has also employed people from the current industry who know how to make games. And yes he is listening to them. Work is getting done. The fact that they have taken Cryengine and refactored the bejezus out of it shows you they have talent on their team. They are using an engine that has a great foundation. This is to be applauded because they have chosen not to re-invent the wheel but have instead adopted and re-engineered a wicked engine. As well the have engineers from Crytek itself who know this tech inside and out, which explains the things they have been able to do in the game.
Chris, in short, has no idea how to turn the ideas in his head into the game he's promised. He knows where he wants to be, but has no idea how to get there. That makes him an inappropriate steward of backer cash. Regardless of whether or not he came up with the idea, whether or not he's the visionary, all that is secondary - if he can't turn that vision into reality, and hand the reins of development and leadership to a competent individual and retain a position as lead designer, rather than CIG godhead, it's extraordinarily unlikely that Star Citizen can fulfill its potential.
I would disagree. They are making progress and building a foundation. As I stated before, in game development you find as you go along goals move. What you once thought was awesome and sweet can now become even awesomer and sweeter. They have a plan, they are executing it, it just isnt happening as publicly or as transparently as you would like. Got it. Well unfortunately that is how game development goes. They are not required to disclose everything to you. And yes I understand that people may be backers, but you backed the game to be released and not how it gets developed. And fortunately if this is something someone does not like, they can back out and get a refund. What is strange is the level of hate being generated by those who no longer agree with the game. You are 100% allowed to not want the game or even like how it is unfolding, but ad hominem attacks on Chris's character or his ability is strange. Have you ever even spoken to him, have you developed games at his level before? I believe not judging someone before walking a mile in their shoes might be a better way to approach this.
We, the Star Citizen team at Cloud Imperium, hereby promise to deliver the game you expect.
(cont'd)
We, the Developer, intend to treat you with the same respect we would give a publisher. You will receive regular updates about the progress of the game.
I think people see a game in development. Beyond that, I can't think of a game that has the features SC combined into one seamless game.
There is no MMO space sim with first person where you can walk around on every ship while it flies with thousands of miles per hours through a system, have a fire fight on board whilst other ships try to blast holes in it from the outside. I mean, maybe there is one, but I guess I have missed that. :psyduck:
I fail to see the MMO side in star citizen. Crashes when 5 people connect.... how is this an MMO!
*snip*
I've worked with investors/publishers and did pitches or regular dev updates for them. If I had been as "open" as CIG is, they would have demanded a change of leadership of the company and installed one of theirs to do oversight and keep us in check.
Analogies are a dime a dozen, but if Tesla behaved like CIG, they would still work on building the factory that produces the robots that one day will manufacture the Model S you pledged for and in the meantime have chosen that they also need to reinvent the actual construction robots.
*snip*
The reason us other developers don't chase those "impossible" (lol) solutions for the most part is not because they're "impossible" but rather that they're not worth it. If needed you can fake it and the player will never now (mostly because she usually just doesn't care). The time saved there can then be spent on other things.
CIG is therefore just another example of why crowdfunding the game development heroes of yesteryear is a bad idea for the most part. They go on and on about how publishers and investors have stifled their creativity and how their "disappointing" games could've been so much better. And big enough parts of the audience drank that kool-aid (the superiority complex of PC gamers probably helped as well).
I think people see a game in development. Beyond that, I can't think of a game that has the features SC combined into one seamless game.
There is no MMO space sim with first person where you can walk around on every ship while it flies with thousands of miles per hours through a system, have a fire fight on board whilst other ships try to blast holes in it from the outside. I mean, maybe there is one, but I guess I have missed that. :psyduck:
I fail to see the MMO side in star citizen. Crashes when 5 people connect.... how is this an MMO!
I think that would be LoD though. And regardless of what it is now, because development, it is aiming to have a persistent universe where everyone plays in. And that is in fact per definition a MMO.
I think that would be LoD though. And regardless of what it is now, because development, it is aiming to have a persistent universe where everyone plays in. And that is in fact per definition a MMO.
They won't even think or mention LoD though. Because you know, it doesn't have the benefit of $134 million budget and 500+ devs all of which amount only to fancy graphics. Aside from the fact that the game already has a 100% persistent world with no instancing or sharding. But just wait and see what happens in the coming months. That's why I don't even bother arguing with them about LoD.
I think that would be LoD though. And regardless of what it is now, because development, it is aiming to have a persistent universe where everyone plays in. And that is in fact per definition a MMO.
They won't even think or mention LoD though. Because you know, it doesn't have the benefit of $134 million budget and 500+ devs all of which amount only to fancy graphics. Aside from the fact that the game already has a 100% persistent world with no instancing or sharding. But just wait and see what happens in the coming months. That's why I don't even bother arguing with them about LoD.
What exactly about LoD is persistent? Character progression, base building, point capturing, weapon custimazation? While having "seamless" loading screens?
I can't remember any of those. No, not being persistent. Being existent in the ..game.
GFORCES
This has been added to the scope of 2.6.0
Work has been completed by code and is now in progress with Animation.
Due to the Thanksgiving holiday, we expect that we won’t be able to set up a review until late next week
ETA is 2nd December
===
NETWORK – BIND CULLING
Due to some difficult to solve bugs progress has been slowed down on bind culling. This is because it’s proved extremely difficult to reproduce the bugs and find out the cause them.
Progress was also slowed due supporting bug fixes for the Livestream
ETA is 8th December (delayed from 23rd November)
===
There has been some delay in progress over the last week that has impacted the push to the Evocati, the issues have come up due to what we call our “Inclusions Process”. This is a process by which we select the various files and folders that we want to be in the build, and allow us to keep out any files that relate to work still in progress we’re not ready to release yet. This is a slow and manual process that is not without error as we have experienced this week, and also slowed further with the US offices being out on Thursday and Friday for Thanksgiving. However, we’re happy to say that we do seem to be over the worst of this now and are in a good position to catch the last of these problems next week
What exactly about LoD is persistent? Character progression, base building, point capturing, weapon custimazation? While having "seamless" loading screens?
I can't remember any of those. No, not being persistent. Being existent in the ..game.
Do you know what "persistent" means, within the context of a game? Start there.
To answer your question. Everything in LoD is persistent because it was designed that way from the ground up and from the very start. The world, the server state, the player state (stats, weapons, inventory etc) etc - all of it. That's what an MMO is. If you'd played it, you would know that. http://lodgame.com
What exactly about LoD is persistent? Character progression, base building, point capturing, weapon custimazation? While having "seamless" loading screens?
I can't remember any of those. No, not being persistent. Being existent in the ..game.
Do you know what "persistent" means, within the context of a game? Start there.
To answer your question. Everything in LoD is persistent because it was designed that way from the ground up and from the very start. The world, the server state, the player state (stats, weapons, inventory etc) etc - all of it. That's what an MMO is. If you'd played it, you would know that. http://lodgame.com
Okay then, let's assume for a moment we have two different ideas what the definition of persistent means for the user in a game.
For me that would be for an unrelated example: "Go in the game, destroy a house, get a modification for your gun and exp for your character. When you log of and come back two weeks later the house is still gone (if no one rebuilt it), you still have the mod and the exp on the character."
I played LoD several hours. I found nothing at all besides
perhaps broken leaderboards that showed any kind of persistency.
In the game was nothing to capture.
Nothing to change on my character.
The only weapons I got beyond my starting weapons disappeared once I left the current map or relogged.
When I tried to enter space with a ship I got blown away instantly.
The only thing I could imagine that could somehow persist where I was not able to test it was the bodies of other dead players.
Again, what has this got to do with persistence? Here, let me help you with that:
- player state
- player stats
- player inventory
- world state
- server state
- jump-in / jump out
Those are the building blocks of a "persistent" game. The entire LoD game world is 100% persistent; which is why you can login to the server at any time, and it would still be running, and on the planet it could be any time of day (dawn, dusk, night etc). You can login see a client or asset in one place, log out, log back in, go to that location and interact with the same client|asset if it's still there. And it was designed and developed that way (http://lodgame.com/faqs/how-many-players-are-supported/) - from the ground up - before we even put any assets in it.
Again, what has this got to do with persistence? Here, let me help you with that:
- player state
- player stats
- player inventory
- world state
- server state
- jump-in / jump out
Those are the building blocks of a "persistent" game. The entire LoD game world is 100% persistent; which is why you can login to the server at any time, and it would still be running, and on the planet it could be any time of day (dawn, dusk, night etc). You can login see a client or asset in one place, log out, log back in, go to that location and interact with the same client|asset if it's still there. And it was designed and developed that way (http://lodgame.com/faqs/how-many-players-are-supported/) - from the ground up - before we even put any assets in it.
Alright, so you're saying that the player inventory is persistent and so is the LoD game world to 100%.
Now if I pick up weapons from a crate, they go into my inventory, right?
When I relogged (or the game crashed randomly), those weapons were gone everytime.
To your definition I could "login to the server at any time", and my inventory, because persistent, would still be the one from before when I logged out. What is persistent are the starting weapons I had based on my starting kit. But nothing I picked up in the game was ever carried between two sessions. I always had to pick up new guns when I reentered a map.
When I said "there was nothing" I was referring to the assets you talk about. I mean, what exactly is there on a map to interact with? Weapon crates, medi kits and I think the prison cells on that one carrier.
For changing things on my character: This goes both for visuals like the skins you linked there (which apparently are not in the game so we can't say anything about persistence there)
or character progression as described here in the FAQhttp://i.imgur.com/UFBCYIn.png (http://i.imgur.com/UFBCYIn.png). So far I can't find any of that in the game.
To summarize: My points dare to question where persistency is in effect in this game. I named examples where it could be, but isn't.
So what exactly is persistent in that game besides 100% which apparently isn't? That it is one server running 24/7 regardless of how many people are playing? That on that 24/7 server is a timer for when the sun is up and when not? Because that is everything besides aircrafts that actually ever changes the position as far as I can tell.
However, nothing of the character is ever saved between sessions. When I create a character and play for a few hours it means fuck all because as soon as I relog my progress is gone. And given that there are no server events means that this is another point where nothing is happening.
When I log into the game, there must be some reason to do it. Some goal. But without any events or targets to go for, with no progression system at all why would anybody play this game?
What is this game then about? Planetside 2 has both. I can level my character, unlock class traits (and switch between classes), unlock weapons and attachements for aircrafts, vehicles and handheld weaponry while playing in a truly persistent enviroment where not only my stats are registered on leaderboards and rewards are gained that persist between sessions. But also every single continent has it's three-faction war with ever changing frontlines that are resembled by capture points across said continents.
From what I gathered that LoD is trying to sell here it is pretty much that, but with a somewhat different setting and the additional layer of space combat - that to my expierence has the same flight model as something other a continent.
Which also makes me think: Why should I go and sit in a fighter and fly around in space? For what reason?
Again, what has this got to do with persistence? Here, let me help you with that:
- player state
- player stats
- player inventory
- world state
- server state
- jump-in / jump out
Those are the building blocks of a "persistent" game. The entire LoD game world is 100% persistent; which is why you can login to the server at any time, and it would still be running, and on the planet it could be any time of day (dawn, dusk, night etc). You can login see a client or asset in one place, log out, log back in, go to that location and interact with the same client|asset if it's still there. And it was designed and developed that way (http://lodgame.com/faqs/how-many-players-are-supported/) - from the ground up - before we even put any assets in it.QuoteAlright, so you're saying that the player inventory is persistent and so is the LoD game world to 100%.
YesQuoteNow if I pick up weapons from a crate, they go into my inventory, right?
Yes - or you won't be able to use/equip them.
Any item you start the game with (e.g. default Starter Kit or TAK items), or pick up in the game world, becomes part of your inventory.
As previously mentioned, currently (due to on-going dev and testing) items picked up in the world or in a pack/crate, are not preserved when you move from one scene (e.g. Heatwave) to another (e.g. Arkangel). Which is also why, when you logout, they are also removed because you don't "own" them. What you "own" is i) what comes in the kit (Starter|TAK) you purchased ii) what you buy in the item shop (via the supply platform) - which is why only those items are preserved/stored in your inventory.QuoteWhen I relogged (or the game crashed randomly), those weapons were gone everytime.
A game crashing has no relevance to your inventory storage because it's not stored client-side (on your machine). It's stored on the dB server as soon as you pick it up or if you already own it.QuoteTo your definition I could "login to the server at any time", and my inventory, because persistent, would still be the one from before when I logged out. What is persistent are the starting weapons I had based on my starting kit. But nothing I picked up in the game was ever carried between two sessions. I always had to pick up new guns when I reentered a map.
This was already explained in my previous post; and also above.QuoteWhen I said "there was nothing" I was referring to the assets you talk about. I mean, what exactly is there on a map to interact with? Weapon crates, medi kits and I think the prison cells on that one carrier.
If you know how the game works (try reading the docs maybe? (http://lodgame.com/docs/)), you would know what you can interact with, how etc. The game is pure PvP; so there are no missions, quests etc - hence nothing in the world to interact with other than other players, items, weapons, terminals, aircraft, vehicles etc.
e.g. if you want an asset (aircraft or vehicle), you go create it a supply platform. The detention hold in the Starguard carrier are part of a game mechanic related to the Hostile Incarceration (already implemented and works) World Event.
And in the upcoming updates (http://lodgame.com/changelog/) related to the ground vehicles and planetary defense systems, you will be able to use any/all ground vehicles - just like aircraft.QuoteFor changing things on my character: This goes both for visuals like the skins you linked there (which apparently are not in the game so we can't say anything about persistence there)
I already answered this question which is already in the FAQ entry previously linked (http://lodgame.com/faqs/will-i-be-able-to-customize-my-character/).
No.
You can only customize your class.
You will be able to buy one of four (Red, Yellow, Green, Blue) different color schemes for your player’s armor and which you can switch to any time in real-time.Quoteor character progression as described here in the FAQhttp://i.imgur.com/UFBCYIn.png (http://i.imgur.com/UFBCYIn.png). So far I can't find any of that in the game.
I already answered this question which is already in the FAQ entry previously linked (http://lodgame.com/faqs/how-is-character-progression-handled/).
Character progression is handled in various ways:
Combat Kills:You accumulate these based on combat actions against the enemy.
Combat Experience Points:Through various combat actions (e.g. kills), you gain CEP.
Ranks:The accumulation of CEP awards you various combat ranks and decorations (medals, ribbons). These are also dynamic; in that depending on your CEP count, you can lose rank and decorations over time.
Combat Training Certificates: These are used to improve certain character attributes and skills.
The combination of CEP and CTC is critical to character progression and the combination allows you to build up your character class as you see fit. You can chose to be a stealth player (sniper) whose sole purpose is to aggravate the forces behind enemy lines, while sneaking around and hacking into base units. Or you can choose to be heavy infantry guy with various weapons of mass destruction.
More info: What are CEP and CTCQuoteTo summarize: My points dare to question where persistency is in effect in this game. I named examples where it could be, but isn't.
And you were wrong in every instance. Maybe try reading it all again.QuoteSo what exactly is persistent in that game besides 100% which apparently isn't? That it is one server running 24/7 regardless of how many people are playing? That on that 24/7 server is a timer for when the sun is up and when not? Because that is everything besides aircrafts that actually ever changes the position as far as I can tell.
Wrong. See aboveQuoteHowever, nothing of the character is ever saved between sessions. When I create a character and play for a few hours it means fuck all because as soon as I relog my progress is gone. And given that there are no server events means that this is another point where nothing is happening.
Wrong. See aboveQuoteWhen I log into the game, there must be some reason to do it. Some goal. But without any events or targets to go for, with no progression system at all why would anybody play this game?
The game is still in development. And it's pure PvP.QuoteWhat is this game then about? Planetside 2 has both. I can level my character, unlock class traits (and switch between classes), unlock weapons and attachements for aircrafts, vehicles and handheld weaponry while playing in a truly persistent enviroment where not only my stats are registered on leaderboards and rewards are gained that persist between sessions. But also every single continent has it's three-faction war with ever changing frontlines that are resembled by capture points across said continents.
Planetside 2 is a finished game. And we're not making Planetside 2 (plus, we already have All Aspect Warfare); so ofc it has different game modes and features e.g.
- we don't have/need/want "frontlines" because that's not how the game works or was designed
- leaderboards work just fine
- character progression (leveling) works just fine
- character inventory system and stats work just fine
- all the implemented weapons, attachments and items, all work just fine
- all the aircraft work just fine; and vehicles are upcoming
- the World Events (gameplay PvP mods) are designed based on the game's core mechanicQuoteFrom what I gathered that LoD is trying to sell here it is pretty much that, but with a somewhat different setting and the additional layer of space combat - that to my expierence has the same flight model as something other a continent.
That argument is like saying Battlefield 1 is like Call Of Duty. It's a silly one.QuoteWhich also makes me think: Why should I go and sit in a fighter and fly around in space? For what reason?
If you don't know why you want to be in a game, there is no reason for you to be playing it. So don't?
The fighter mechanics, unlike the repetitive "go-flip-a-switch" nonsense, are there for PvP space combat. And it's not just between clients, but also against faction owned stations and the carrier which are part of the game's World Events. Those mechanics work just fine. There are no "missions" because it's not that kind of game; wasn't designed to be, and isn't going to be.
Just like all my games, LoD, unlike that other game, isn't trying to, nor aspiring to cater to everyone, nor is it pitched or designed to be a game that's all things to everyone - let alone a BDSSE. It has a specific and distinct focus, and target audience that are not subject to change. You either like it or you don't. If you don't, don't buy it, don't play it. There are many other games to choose from.
So to summarize the fact that in this 100% persistent game currently nothing of value besides leaderboards are persistent and things that are actually relevant like character progression are not.
Or actual goals in the game like the server events where you at the one point say they are not in the game and then the next post that they're "already implemented and work"ing? You can link to your FAQ all you want, it doesn't change the fact that those printed words do not reflect the reality of those mechanics simply failing to be exist.
And when you pulled a Trump and only said "WRONG" you basically said that ther is not one server running 24/7 regardless of how many people are playing? That on that 24/7 server is no timer for when the sun is up and when not? Which together with the crates lying around at predetermined places that are not moveable and created aircrafts would be the only parts that actually showed persistency at any level here?
Also, I was wrong about that nothing about my character is saved? But then you said it yourself "Nothing about the character is saved"?
To the question "Why would anybody play the game if there is no content to achieve" you answered with "It's in development.". What are you trying to say with that? Since when is "being in development" the reason to play the game?
The comparison to PS2 is deflected with a BF1 to CoD comparison for what reasons exactly? The latter are vastly different in mapsizes, gamemodes, hell, CoD doesn't even have vehicles, only kill streaks. In Battlefield you are the Killstreak. For this comparison to be legit here you'd have to say that both games do not have (promised) fights on huge persistent ever changing maps on foot, on air and in vehicles, which they both try to achieve. The only difference here is that LoD also wants to feature naval warfare (which does not exist in the game) and the space settings which are the same aircrafts now in an area without the ground.
So yes, a comparison is VERY legit as there are design-wise at best with ever changing world events something else that LoD eventually wants to offer while PS2 strictly goes for PvP around capture points and ultimately continental lockdown.
I think some of the disconnect is with people who are either a) new to the project, or b) casual observers. They look at the site, they look up Chris's history (but only scratching the surface, oh look, he made Wing Commander, I heard of that), they read some gamer articles, and the natural conclusion, even a logical one, is "OK this game looks good, and it is in development. 4 years is fine, it will probably take longer.)
Can we really expect the casual observer to understand what's really happening at CIG? What Chris's actual game development history and credentials reveal? Can we expect the average person to know, just by looking, how badly this studio has been approaching the project? How much money has been blown by filming millions of dollars of motion capture before the game engine is working? Failing to even know what anyone will DO in this game before making tons of ships to sell? The fact that there's no flight model or working anything? And over 100 other little factoids that reveal that this isn't actually a development studio - it's a cargo cult.
The average person reads articles, sees screenshots, and assumes what 99% of the planet assumes - a developer is working on a game. They simply look at what actual game developers and publishers are doing, and use that template to extrapolate what they think will happen with CIG.
CIG's business model relies on this mistake occurring indefinitely. Once they release anything concrete, people will see this project for what it really is. Then the real fun begins.
I think some of the disconnect is with people who are either a) new to the project, or b) casual observers. They look at the site, they look up Chris's history (but only scratching the surface, oh look, he made Wing Commander, I heard of that), they read some gamer articles, and the natural conclusion, even a logical one, is "OK this game looks good, and it is in development. 4 years is fine, it will probably take longer.)
Can we really expect the casual observer to understand what's really happening at CIG? What Chris's actual game development history and credentials reveal? Can we expect the average person to know, just by looking, how badly this studio has been approaching the project? How much money has been blown by filming millions of dollars of motion capture before the game engine is working? Failing to even know what anyone will DO in this game before making tons of ships to sell? The fact that there's no flight model or working anything? And over 100 other little factoids that reveal that this isn't actually a development studio - it's a cargo cult.
The average person reads articles, sees screenshots, and assumes what 99% of the planet assumes - a developer is working on a game. They simply look at what actual game developers and publishers are doing, and use that template to extrapolate what they think will happen with CIG.
CIG's business model relies on this mistake occurring indefinitely. Once they release anything concrete, people will see this project for what it really is. Then the real fun begins.
This is what makes the whole press coverage of SC extremely damaging.
It is a bit like the US election. Instead of the media reporting what is going on they are giving SC plenty of free uncritical coverage that generates more sales.
Hey Derek,
What's the source on 2.6 not having Star Marine? If so, that's just pathetic.
They have 137+ million dollars for christs sake they should be deploying all their men power on delivering not just gasping more and more money. there is a limit to milking
Hey Derek,
What's the source on 2.6 not having Star Marine? If so, that's just pathetic.
For a $137 million project that likes to tout "openness", it's interesting that since 2.6 was released to Evocati yesterday, backers have no clue what's in it (http://"https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/7307699/#Comment_7307699"). Particularly it doesn't contain Star Marine; and CIG never even mentioned it.
Meanwhile, some backers are spreading false rumors that it is released.....just because they claim to have seen some file assets in the download. :D
the subreddit is cracking down on anything pertaining to whether or not star marine is in the release pretty hard. That post from yesterday was deleted. two threads about it have been removed. their posting guidelines about evocati leaks are the following: "When an Evocati testing session begins, information about it may not be posted until one month after the end of the session in question. Exceptions to the rule include posting the fact that an Evocati session has started, and very basic information regarding the Evocati session theme (e.g. "Balance is being redone." or "3.0 Evocati testing has begun")." I would consider whether or not the main component of the patch is actually in the patch to be pretty basic info but I guess not..
WRT Star Marine, contents of evocati builds are NDA'd, but also I don't work in CS, QA or production, so why would I know?
TBH...I don't really care whether or not it is in this build.
What I want to know is if it will be in 2.6 when it is "released".
I would guess that CIG would very much want to include least some form of SM so....unless it is badly broken...SM will be in 2.6 in some form.
Having said that...it makes no sense to not include SM in the current build unless it were badly broken. IF it isn't in the build...that suggests it isn't ready for release and if it were close to being fixed, holding back the testing so a full version could be tested wouldn't be a bad idea.
TBH...I don't really care whether or not it is in this build.
What I want to know is if it will be in 2.6 when it is "released".
I would guess that CIG would very much want to include least some form of SM so....unless it is badly broken...SM will be in 2.6 in some form.
Having said that...it makes no sense to not include SM in the current build unless it were badly broken. IF it isn't in the build...that suggests it isn't ready for release and if it were close to being fixed, holding back the testing so a full version could be tested wouldn't be a bad idea.
Well that's the situation CIG has placed themselves in by relying on faith and continued donations to attempt to develop this game. Star Marine is not in this build because it's badly broken, and they can't afford for people to see it in the condition it's in, or it threatens funding. Even if it's close to being fixed (which for all I know it could be), they can't hold back the release because they promised the "2.6" regardless of what it contains - to delay it would affect backer faith, and threaten funding.
It's all about keeping up appearances, and with the product they've got in their hands, it's really a no-win situation for CIG. Delay the patch and threaten faith, or release buggy Star Marine and threaten faith? Thus we have the solution: release "2.6" with Star Marine "coming soon."
Someone made a Star Citizen progress chart (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1olftkGcAokAh1B_fSic-23_AojZvFvfZvgi2bQ7-GLo/edit#gid=621188584)
I disagree. Even if CIG would state that SM is active and playable, Derek and his lackeys will simply claim that it is only active in a new build and still wasn't active on day one.
No amount of proof will be enough for Derek and his lackeys, unless CIG states was in before something is in the hands of the Evocati. And even that wouldn't be enough. CIG would need to remove the NDA completely to make Derek shut up about something not being in. Frankly, I think that is actually what Derek wants. He is saying all this to get the NDA removed. With the NDA removed he probably hopes that the media will again report about the patches, especially on how buggy it is. All Derek does has an ulterior motive to try to cause a refund cascade.
The video isn't proof that SM is activated "in this build". Its only proof that the assest and gameplay mode are in there. Technically he's right; as long as CIG (or de avocado's) can't confirm that SM is "active and playable" in the current build it's not there. (or is it....... schrodingers star marine?)
The things I find the most surprising about Star Citizen is how there always seems to be blockers or claims of incredible technological achievement for things that I have seen in other games.
The things I find the most surprising about Star Citizen is how there always seems to be blockers or claims of incredible technological achievement for things that I have seen in other games.
In all honesty, what works in one game might not work in another due to the different engines and other systems. I could easily accept that they might be blocked by something that other games have already done, simply on the premise that their program is different. Similarly, I would expect that what might block other programs might be easily dealt with by CIGs system.
Having said that, their claims of incredible technological achievement appear to be mere hype. There is nothing in Star Citizen that strikes me as unique. Ambitious? Yes...but innovative? I don't think they can even claim that the link between SQ42 and SC is innovative as other games have such links, be it sequels using existing save positions or EVE and Dust 514
I’ve spent 150 hours or so playing Empyrion: Survival Evolved in recent months, it’s still in early access alpha on steam yet already dealt with things SC has been reportedly struggling with for a long time.
Star Citizen promises nothing that Elite or NMS or EVE or SWTOR or whatever also does not promise or provide.
That lack of innovation isn't a problem. They might even end up with the BDSSE if they ever get the game released and it lives up to expectations. No - the problem with hyping the game in such a manner is that it raises expectations...expectations that could be very difficult for CIG to meet.
As it is....Star Citizens biggest problem appears to be the usual problem with Chris Roberts' games. Chris Roberts appears to have vastly underestimated the time and resources required to fulfil his vision, and has compounded that error with some bad decisions. Such as the money wasted on Ilfonic because of poor communication/management and other third parties or the choice of CryEngine. As Derek Smart says, the CryEngine licensed for the game might have been suitable for the Kickstarter vision, but given the amount of time and resources necessary to modify it to make it suitable for his expanded vision, he likely would have been better starting from scratch. He should have said "Now that we have the funds to expand the vision, we have the funding and excuse to design and build a custom engine"
Maybe - as someone suggested - CIG are doing that in parallel with the ship funding we have seen. Maybe this new engine will be 3.0. Maybe this new engine explains the lack of visible progress on many aspects of the game. Maybe. But it seems doubtful.
Hi Derek,
Don't be surprised on Dec 16th it gets moved to Dec 23rd, then ... Jan 10th 2017.
With this kind of scheduling, you can imagine what kind of ***** quality the production managers have.
If this was an AAA game, someone would get fired, or censured (salary-cut).
Have you guys seen the latest newsletter from chris. In it he said "For those keeping track, we got Alpha 2.6 made the release window forecast from the Production Schedule Report."
I was like rolling with laughter after reading this seeing he had the courage to even show his face after such delays and on top of it boasting that they achieved the deadlines. hahahah
After community outcries on delays, CI shows the schedule, then gets delayed, then extend the schedule, then get delayed, then again extend the schedule, then delivers something to the evocati shrouded in darkness, then say see we met the deadline. Thats how humorous chris is...i like him really..lmao
The "tasks" detailed there are about as fascinating as watching somebody clip their toenails.
SM was in there and was playable, but not to every evocati tester. You don't have it nor have access to it, so you wouldn't know. I don't blame you otherwise.
Some Shitizens are still spreading false rumors that SM is in the build. It's not.
In fact, now even the /r/StarCitizen/ denizens are actively stifling any information about this. My guess is that by the time word is widespread, they're hoping that CIG would have released it as an update.
Just now posted on my Discord channel:Quotethe subreddit is cracking down on anything pertaining to whether or not star marine is in the release pretty hard. That post from yesterday was deleted. two threads about it have been removed. their posting guidelines about evocati leaks are the following: "When an Evocati testing session begins, information about it may not be posted until one month after the end of the session in question. Exceptions to the rule include posting the fact that an Evocati session has started, and very basic information regarding the Evocati session theme (e.g. "Balance is being redone." or "3.0 Evocati testing has begun")." I would consider whether or not the main component of the patch is actually in the patch to be pretty basic info but I guess not..
It goes like this: dev (pushed by devs for testing) -> QA (internal QA) -> Evocati (usually the same build as QA) -> wide testing (out of Evocati to larger group, usually subscribers) -> live (wide public release)
Like all builds, the Evocati builds have a unique internal build number that is incremented with each update. The updates during the Evocati test phase, go through the normal test cycle.
And it's all one build. They don't send different builds to different groups.
This release of 2.6 sans Star Marine indicates to me that either i) they want to test other things first before pushing it to Evocati from SQ or ii) it's so badly broken, that it's never coming out this year.
Note that they had slated Dec 8th as the official release. That date pushes up against the holiday sales. So this preemptive move to push 2.6 to Evocati, to me, is yet another carrot stick ploy by CIG to boost confidence during the upcoming sale, then post-sale, announce that SM isn't coming after all, let alone 2.6 going wide. Mark my words.
It's horrible. And this sort of thing is why it is hilarious to me that whales keep funding this project.
And here is Ben Parry saying he can't even talk about whether or not SM is in the 2.6 build (https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/259596-The-Star-Citizen-Thread-v5?p=4846507&viewfull=1#post4846507). And my response (https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/259596-The-Star-Citizen-Thread-v5?p=4847273&viewfull=1#post4847273).QuoteWRT Star Marine, contents of evocati builds are NDA'd, but also I don't work in CS, QA or production, so why would I know?
LATEST: /r/StarCitizen_Leaks/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/Starcitizen_Leaks/comments/5fnd8p/evocati_leaks_updated_regularly/) (<--- run by a known Shitizen, so approach with caution)
Star Marine in 2.6. Somehow CIG managed to fail at building an FPS component with an engine built for FPS games. Crashes, lags, disconnects etc.And is a complete different experience than the PU FPS ... sure .. we know why ... and we know how Devs love to do redundant work on 2 different modules that are not compatible with each other and how this plays out :)
In keeping with the tradition of ripping off other game art, someone found that Star Marine is a Master Chief ripoff (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/5jmm4l/a_bit_of_halo_bled_through_on_this_one/)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0PGuJjUQAAWa0f.jpg)
Meanwhile, over there (https://www.reddit.com/r/DerekSmart/comments/5jjxcg/derek_smart_on_twitter_i_heard_that/dbgzquk/)...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0PNJ_lXgAAR_Gd.jpg)
hey derek i am new to this scene could u tell me who this guy beer4god is ? his history??
Its time for the 25 million stretch goal: International server during alpha (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/5jds7b/its_time_for_the_25_million_stretch_goal/)
More than four years into development Star Citizen changes game engine
http://www.polygon.com/2016/12/23/14062698/star-citizen-amazon-game-engine
http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2016/12/24/star-citizen-has-changed-game-engines
And discuss...
Well...they didn't want to upgrade to CE5 because it was too much work and the engines were too different following their reworking...
But effectively did it anyway, which suggests their attempts to fix the NetCode in their CE3 engine were less than successful.
Other than that....I'd be interested to know what this mean for the game.
Is the NetCode now "fixed"...or are CIG limited in how the an modify it
Are CIG now stuck with Amazon?
What are the new instance limits? Will we get the 200 players per instance CIG were wanting or is that still some time away?
CIG had reportedly stopping using CE patches because the code base had diverged so much...how does that work for Lumberyard? When they say all the changes made have been moved to Lumberyard, does that mean it's been tested and intergrated smoothly as well or does it mean we are in for a year of "testing" instead of development and progress?
When they say they have moved to Lumberyard...could that mean they may simply have licensed the Netcode and effectively merged it into StarEngine rather than vice versa? That is, kept as much of their own engine intact and made as few other changes as possible in order to fix the netcode?
Does Lumberyard offer CIG any other advantages?
More importantly....does this mean work on the Engine has "finished"? Can we expect quicker progress? Can we expect SOME progress?
Lumberyard might be based on CryEngine, but it's Amazon's adjustments in it, not CIG's. Every custom modification - years of work - from both CIG and Crytek employees are now reset to zero.
The netcode was never "broken" per se - it's that the built-in CryEngine netcode could not support what CIG was trying to do - it's not an MMO engine. Lumberyard is also not an MMO engine. So the netcode work also starts over.
Actually, according to Chris, it's already done... Lol, of course the reality of the situation is another matter.
Wait a minute Chris, according to gamescon you were 'hoping' to have both 2.6 AND 3.0 out before the end of the year...
More than four years into development Star Citizen changes game engineTaken from
http://www.polygon.com/2016/12/23/14062698/star-citizen-amazon-game-engine
http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2016/12/24/star-citizen-has-changed-game-engines
And discuss...
For those that may be interested, here's a longer synopsis I sent to a colleague that asked about Lumberyard:
It's 99.9% full CryEngine source at this point. The main differences are:
1) They reorganized a lot of the "features" to break them down into "Gems", which makes the base messier to work with and currently adds additional complexity that really isn't needed - like breaking the "Lightning Arc" entity out as an individual gem, for example, which you can pick during project creation.
2) The networking layer is completely replaced. The new one has less latency, but also increases bandwidth (doesn't use the network compression system), and still transfers all data to all clients, so it will not scale.
3) Scaleform/Flash is removed - they have their own simplistic UI system currently - very basic stuff.
4) Steam integration has been removed (see paragraph below)
5) Crytek's lobby system is removed
6) Some experimental features like Segmented Worlds have been completely removed
7) I like the way they are trying to make the initial development more project focused - create a project, pick the gems you want to use, etc., but right now it's a little confusing and they need to clean it up - feels very "hacked" in currently
8) Not open source - you can't distribute any source code modification you make - DLLs should be fine from what I read in the EULA
9) All current CE limitations are still in place - memory restrictions, map size restrictions, AI system, and so forth.
10) You get full source for everything - Launchers, editor (Sandbox), and shaders included.
The biggest downside is anything that requires a network server is locked into the AWS services. The exception is if you host the servers yourself, in your own datacenter, then that's fine, but very few people/companies will be willing to do that. Any Web APIs or services that would compete with an AWS service is not allowed. This means that you can't use Steam's ladderboards, achievements, messaging, storage, or anything like that because AWS has a competing service in place - it's why Steam integration appears to have been removed. You can sell the game on Steam, just not integrate with any back-end Steam services. So, for a single-player game you still need to use AWS' services for those if you want them.
If any of the above is incorrect, I apologize, and please correct me.
this is the height of incompetency, CIG still havent updated the schedule page. what a bummer i think they wont update the page about 3.0 but will buy some days off by showing schedule for 2.6.1 minor patch. That way backers will think ok something is happening .. :laugh:
this is the height of incompetency, CIG still havent updated the schedule page. what a bummer i think they wont update the page about 3.0 but will buy some days off by showing schedule for 2.6.1 minor patch. That way backers will think ok something is happening .. :laugh:And their founding counter peaks everytime they announce dreams, do a schedule for a minor patch and .... post a rendered image of a planet ... Dreams are happening here Dreams!
Meanwhile, over there (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/5n5h06/is_everyone_else_cool_with_losing_the_two_qa/).
Meanwhile, over there (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/5n5h06/is_everyone_else_cool_with_losing_the_two_qa/).
Hey DS, according to the thread on reddit. they are saying ATV and 10 for the chairman are dead!! is it true
and if its true then its an onset of something bad as CR has started to officially avoid showing his face and make false statements in front of camera to reduce his legal liabilities.
Those clowns over at CIG/RSI still can't build a game for $140m; but apparently they have an alien language now
So they released the new schedule (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/schedule-report). 2.6.1 is mid-Feb.
And the newsletter talks of 2.6.2. As for 3.0 (which was totally coming on or before Dec 19th, 2016), the newsletter says they will have more specifics as soon as they are set. Remember back when I said it didn't even exist? :supaburn:
(http://i.imgur.com/gDcCwuq.png)
So they released the new schedule (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/schedule-report). 2.6.1 is mid-Feb.
And the newsletter talks of 2.6.2. As for 3.0 (which was totally coming on or before Dec 19th, 2016), the newsletter says they will have more specifics as soon as they are set. Remember back when I said it didn't even exist? :supaburn:
(http://i.imgur.com/gDcCwuq.png)
After so much arguing with Ben Parry over the fact that CryEngine/StarEngine/Lumberyard all use the concept of "levels" - and him denying it and trying to hand wave the concept, here is Sean Tracy - again - in a recent stream saying that they are in fact levels (https://youtu.be/DK2ZBCeKKuQ?t=2318). Oh and "Megamap" isn't really "mega". So there's that.
Listen from 39:11 again because, to me, he clearly lumped StarEngine in that "level". The only difference being that their "MegaMap" concept doesn't do any pre-loading like a traditional level does. Instead, it streams in what's needed around the player. So, it is still a level - albeit a container. - But while a standard level includes everything in it and requires preloading, their MegaMap doesn't preload anything. Instead it is "demand loaded" (he calls it streaming, which is still a fancy word for loading).
You know the hilarious part? This is what I did in all my Battlecruiser/Universal Combat games. In fact, I described it in detail right here (http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=9.msg289#msg289). My tech doesn't have the concept of "levels", but an empty object/blob/scene is still a level, except that there's nothing in it but placeholders which determine what gets loaded/streamed when that area is "in scope".
So they basically - again - took an old concept, gave it fancy name, while confusing the entire premise. Which is why Ben Parry swears up and down that they're not "levels" per se.
They did the same shit with 64-Bit positioning, visual stabilization etc
The point is that, time and time again, they have obfuscated various technical terms and usage in a bid to mislead and lie. this is part of the problem when you go digging, only to find out that they're not doing anything new or revolutionary. they try to give off that illusion in order to keep the scam going, while justify having blown over $140m of backer money on cookie cutter bullshit. they did the same shit over the 64-Bit positioning nonsense, until I called them out on it and people started asking questions.
They don't have ANY groundbreaking tech - at all.
And they just did the same shit by lying about the LumberYard switch - though they hadn't actually done it.
I'm questionning here the Ben Parry's skills; I mean either he's got absolute shit skills hence why he works at CIG (and would that mean a significant part of the non-execs devs at CIG are unskilled(?), as we know the lead devs are noobs anyway (hey Forrest) or have quit ), or he's been kept in the dark and fed with the Cult mentality all along -sounds like it too; OR he's been part of Croberts scam head crew and know very much he's been coning people. I'm not so much for the later. I guess the first 2 options are viable though.
What's your thoughts about?
I'm questionning here the Ben Parry's skills; I mean either he's got absolute shit skills hence why he works at CIG (and would that mean a significant part of the non-execs devs at CIG are unskilled(?), as we know the lead devs are noobs anyway (hey Forrest) or have quit ), or he's been kept in the dark and fed with the Cult mentality all along -sounds like it too; OR he's been part of Croberts scam head crew and know very much he's been coning people. I'm not so much for the later. I guess the first 2 options are viable though.
What's your thoughts about?
Neither. He's just a low level programmer peon who knows nothing about anything outside his bubble. Plus he hates that I keep engaging and running circles around him.
I'm questionning here the Ben Parry's skills; I mean either he's got absolute shit skills hence why he works at CIG (and would that mean a significant part of the non-execs devs at CIG are unskilled(?), as we know the lead devs are noobs anyway (hey Forrest) or have quit ), or he's been kept in the dark and fed with the Cult mentality all along -sounds like it too; OR he's been part of Croberts scam head crew and know very much he's been coning people. I'm not so much for the later. I guess the first 2 options are viable though.
What's your thoughts about?
Neither. He's just a low level programmer peon who knows nothing about anything outside his bubble. Plus he hates that I keep engaging and running circles around him.
What does his Resume look like ?
oh-oh. over at CIG/F42, a dozen devs cried out in fear
http://www.develop-online.net/news/amazon-unveils-amazon-lumberyard-1-7-beta/0228846 (http://www.develop-online.net/news/amazon-unveils-amazon-lumberyard-1-7-beta/0228846)
remember back when I wrote that their use of Lumberyard in 2.6 was restricted to it's implementation of AWS/S3, hence the need to display the logo?
https://docs.aws.amazon.com/lumberyard/latest/releasenotes/lumberyard-v1.7.html (https://docs.aws.amazon.com/lumberyard/latest/releasenotes/lumberyard-v1.7.html)
section: Updated AWS SDK
listing: Amazon S3
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3HXStaWIAAGa6I.jpg:large)
This week the Star Citizen dev team made solid strides toward our goals for the 2.6.1 patch, as outlined last week in the revised production schedule report. Meanwhile, others devs that have been locked down to focus on specific tasks and features have continued making progress on elements of the game that will appear further down the road in 3.0 and Squadron 42.
When it comes to the 3.0 patch, backers may as well just reconcile the fact that they were lied to – again. It’s not even a case of a missed schedule. He basically came up with a list of features (none of which, according to sources, exists or in a form that would have lent any credibility to his “end of year” promise) he knew backers would fall for, then put it out there as “coming soon”; thus – like the demos at GamesCom and CitizenCon – raising money from the few whales who are still dumb enough to keep giving him money.
...
Rumors and source leaks aside, the writing is on the wall. They are either going to move 2.6 into 2017 – as indeed they should if it’s not ready for test release – or they will try to push some interim 2.5.x minor branch out in order to quash some of the dissent. But the fact remains, waiting until the last minute, or at a time when the bad news won’t affect the anniversary stream, is just another dishonest plan, and one which has become a staple for them.
...
3.0 status: sources say all are still laughing at this one. It simple does NOT exist as was communicated to backers. It was basically a wishlist of items they wanted to see in a point release; and which Roberts when on the record (again) as saying was coming by “year end, and not on Dec 19th like last year“ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-3YBuFI3iI&t=1416).
While it does not absolve them of the liability of breaking an NDA, it’s easy to see why it makes sense to the people doing it. Especially in light of the fact that this latest leak has clearly shown that not only is the 2.6 patch most likely not coming in Oct; but that given that the test pattern has a lengthy period from “limited Evocati –> wide testing –> live“, it means that it probably won’t be out until sometime in the Nov/Dec time frame. And that, my friends, all but guarantees that the much touted 3.0 (aka the Jesus Patch) which Chris was heavily promoting at GamesCom (https://youtu.be/Z-3YBuFI3iI?t=1416) as coming by end of the year, is not being released this year. At all. Yeah, I know – shocking. Note that there isn’t even a 2.7 patch. It was once talked about, then came GamesCom and Chris saying that after 2.5 (current), there will be 2.6, and then it’s onto 3.0 – the Jesus Patch which fixes everything, and includes all of the latest promises.
oh-oh. over at CIG/F42, a dozen devs cried out in fear
http://www.develop-online.net/news/amazon-unveils-amazon-lumberyard-1-7-beta/0228846 (http://www.develop-online.net/news/amazon-unveils-amazon-lumberyard-1-7-beta/0228846)
remember back when I wrote that their use of Lumberyard in 2.6 was restricted to it's implementation of AWS/S3, hence the need to display the logo?
https://docs.aws.amazon.com/lumberyard/latest/releasenotes/lumberyard-v1.7.html (https://docs.aws.amazon.com/lumberyard/latest/releasenotes/lumberyard-v1.7.html)
section: Updated AWS SDK
listing: Amazon S3
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3HXStaWIAAGa6I.jpg:large)
This is not fair play DS this image has been edited. Its not that i didnt like it :laugh: but you shoukd mention that this is a joke.
I was reffering to the "Star Citizen :Everthing is broken" point that was added by someone via photoshop or something to give false information. again i say not that i dont like it but you should mention that this is a edited image as the link you posted shows this in known issues.
I liked the joke here. Plus, well it is true, SC is broken :)
Honnestly I like anything that can troll crobart and the shitizens.
EVE Online background used for Star Citizen concept art:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/5qkci4/eve_online_nebula_used_in_star_citizen_concept_art/
Although many argue this is normal for concept art, but just for the laughs the EVE online community has=)
Hi @SaturnSquared. Sorry to say, do not hold your breath for this. Ignoring the render tech for VR itself (which given the work we've done, would definitely be a read-and-rewrite job, not a merge-this-file job), making a game properly VR compliant takes a lot of work at the design and testing level regardless of the engine used. We'd probably need to get the framerate up a bit higher too, come to think of it.
Sorry for any misunderstanding, my point was that some of the key obstacles to VR support aren't about whether the engine has the technical capability for it. That kind of thinking leads to, well, this guy explains it better than I do. I'd prefer we don't accidentally and permanently ruin anyone's ability to enjoy VR.
If VR isn't designed and implemented as a core feature from day 1, then it's permanently relegated to one of two states:
1) Complete impossibility
2) Hacked-on pseudo-vr where the headset does nothing more than mimic mouselook with a pseudo-3D environment
Every action in the Star Citizen "game" that takes away control from your first-person viewpoint will break the illusion and induce motion sickness. Guess how often they do this for the sake of "immersion"?
I don't even know why VR is even a talking point at this stage. They have no game, no plans for a game, no design, no ideas, no gameplay loop, no documentation, no functioning engine, no flight physics, and no path forward. All they have is motion capture and a devastatingly autistic CEO.
I'm still wondering here how deep the dude has been drawn to the cult.
However, he's confirming indeed CIG has never worked on VR integration ever and worse, the poor dude doesn't even seem to know if they intend of doing so.
In the end he's just another one saying sky is green. I just find interesting here that both backers and some of the CIG devs ( seems) are drawn to the cult.
This week on ATV Programming is hard and shit sucks deal with it. Here is some art that looks like some other art you have already seen. Here is a dude shooting another dude man that shit is great. Speaking of shooting people starmarine is broken we know stop bitching. We are going to release a patch that may or may not fix things in like 3 weeks chill your tits. 3.0 is still on its way soon* Please ignore the comment last year saying it would be done before the end of the year. Network code is hard and no one wants that job so there's like 2 people working on it. They are accepting cookies and hand jobs for encouragement. Please sate them we can't replace them and they could demand literally anything of us and we would have to give in to their wishes.
See you in the verse or more likely in star marine since the PU runs like ass.
Star Citizen Newsletter - Regional Servers Inbound
February 3rd, 2017
Greetings Citizen.
Across all our studios, work on the upcoming Alpha 2.6.1 patch is progressing nicely. There’s still some UI work to complete and stability issues to iron out, but, as you can see in our updated production schedule report, we’re almost ready to get this latest patch into the players’ hands. In fact, we're happy to announce an addition to this patch. Thanks to the great work by the Live Ops, Backend and UI teams, we're moving up the release of the Regional Servers to 2.6.1, so players will be able to choose which server (North America, Europe, or Australia) they join to ensure the best connection possible. Once these are running, we’ll be able to run more tests to assess whether more locations will be needed.
This week I split my time between Foundry 42 offices in the UK and Germany. I’ll be spending another week in the trenches with the devs at Foundry 42 to oversee our advancement on a number of fronts.
Thanks to everyone who showed their support for Star Citizen last weekend at both PAX South and the community-organized Bar Citizen event in San Antonio, TX. It’s just another example of how dedicated and inspiring our fanbase can be. In fact, we’ve been looking for more ways to to bring the community front and center. That’s why this week we premiered a new show called Citizens of the Stars that focuses on the important part you play in Star Citizen. Give it a watch to see some of the incredible things the community is doing.
-- Chris Roberts
This will most likely be a setup issue with the trigger volumes and logic that the art & design teams use to control color grading across the level (e.g. if you manage to escape a space station but don't pass through specific trigger volumes then the color grade might not be updated). If there is a known set of steps to reliably reproduce the issue I'd recommend raising it in the issue council.
This setup however is intended to be replaced with a more reliable and systemic system to control color grading where every room is tagged with the desired color grade / mood (either by art or procedurally by code). This system will be updated every frame and doesn't rely on hand placed trigger volumes so will never get into an incorrect state, even if you somehow teleport from one location to another. This will likely have a dependency on the 'room system' being developed in LA so it's something we intend to address later in the year, and is a required feature for both 3.0 and Squadron 42.
Cheers,
Ali Brown - Director of Graphics Engineering
3.0 status: sources say all are still laughing at this one. It simple does NOT exist as was communicated to backers. It was basically a wishlist of items they wanted to see in a point release; and which Roberts when on the record (again) as saying was coming by “year end, and not on Dec 19th like last year“. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-3YBuFI3iI&t=1416)
Ho Lee Cow!! Just as I predicted (https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/829499514281193473), Ali B did go back in and made a correction to his post (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/7516130/#Comment_7516130). :laugh:
(http://imgur.com/xHRlhSD.jpg)
In LoD, right now, there is an oxygen meter that's monitored if you go under water. When you run out while under, you die. If you come up, it refills. Just like what happens if your jetpack runs out of energy; you fall to the ground.
Why would you model O2 underwater if the player is already theoretically wearing some sort of high-pressure space suit that supports O2 support? I believe these things are kind of a waste of time to develop too but they have gone on record saying that they want to simulate the need of having O2 systems and power systems (making them a limited resource and all that), so it would make sense for them to make these systems different from yours. They are developing their systems the best way it would fit for them, not the best way it would fit for you.
You're missing some context. The "oxygen" system CIG is claiming to have supposedly monitors O2 levels in the blood, respiration rates, simulate the entire biological effect on oxygen on living systems... it's all too ridiculous to go into here. The end result is going to be an oxygen meter, and as Derek is pointing out, it can just go down when there's no air, back up when you change the tank, and so on. There's no need to claim you're programming biology itself into the game if a meter does the same job, but this being CIG, that's exactly what they're doing.
Of course if it makes it into the game it'll be just a meter because that's what is sane. But they'll say there are real calculations that go down to the mitochondria level of the man wearing the space suit, and backers will believe it.
I personally seem to remember that the main haul of the O2 system that they say that they were building was mainly "special" due to a variety of factors including rooms cycling O2 between each other. I know a bunch of their explanation of how things work are just an over complicated way of saying something simple, but I don't think they mentioned the O2 working like that. Look back to that 4 part ATV a couple months back for the O2 system in question (I believe it is, it might be the Citcon pre-atv thing also).
Why would you model O2 underwater if the player is already theoretically wearing some sort of high-pressure space suit that supports O2 support? I believe these things are kind of a waste of time to develop too but they have gone on record saying that they want to simulate the need of having O2 systems and power systems (making them a limited resource and all that), so it would make sense for them to make these systems different from yours. They are developing their systems the best way it would fit for them, not the best way it would fit for you.
You're missing some context. The "oxygen" system CIG is claiming to have supposedly monitors O2 levels in the blood, respiration rates, simulate the entire biological effect on oxygen on living systems... it's all too ridiculous to go into here. The end result is going to be an oxygen meter, and as Derek is pointing out, it can just go down when there's no air, back up when you change the tank, and so on. There's no need to claim you're programming biology itself into the game if a meter does the same job, but this being CIG, that's exactly what they're doing.
Of course if it makes it into the game it'll be just a meter because that's what is sane. But they'll say there are real calculations that go down to the mitochondria level of the man wearing the space suit, and backers will believe it.
“..so, it’s our big end of the year release. er so er yeah, so we’re gonna get it out the end of the year; hopefully not on December 19th but, er, like last year….but it is a big one, so, not making er, I got shot for making promises, but er, that’s our goal.”
hairychris;5166795]I still have no idea how 1000+ will be technically possible, but I know sod-all about game development.
And that quoted statement doesn't make a huge amount of sense, unless they're having instances ("servers") within instances ("instances") in which case it's still instanced, just called something different.
Derek,
I am not a developer.
Given that CR was out of the industry for ten years and (I assume) wasn't developing MMOs himself when he last was, what process would he reasonably have gone through to come up with the fantasy set up you describe above ?
Most players with experience of MMOs would know from personal experience playing them that what CR is selling is a huge technical challenge, and as you say, if he'd spoken to a few honest up to date MMO developers when he was thinking about SC, they would surely have told him the limitations of what was currently possible.
It is difficult not to come to the conclusion CR knew all along he couldn't deliver all these concurrent players in one instance (or disguise it to look like it was happening).
He would also have known new technology wasn't going to appear in time to solve the problem for this game.
So if these gets into court, they would have to answer questions about how they reasonably believed this was viable ?
Meanwhile, even more stock footage has been found in the latest concept ship image. Seriously, this isn't even funny anymore.The expensive ships may be feared for their speed and firepower, but their battle-hardened crew sleeps in kiddy blankets for 10-year olds. What a strange 'Verse.
Meanwhile, even more stock footage has been found in the latest concept ship image. Seriously, this isn't even funny anymore.The expensive ships may be feared for their speed and firepower, but their battle-hardened crew sleeps in kiddy blankets for 10-year olds. What a strange 'Verse.
So they have 150m$, and 300zillions staff around, but they can't pay for textures and alike with copyright on the inet , and they can't have bunch of their staff to quality work on textures?
Parp refactor incoming, can't wait.edit
But why, why they have to steal? Behind the curtain wtf is going on lol. 300 staff? and they obviously have to go steal ?.
And since they've been doing this for long , I've been wondering either wtf within those 300 staff are really assigned into producing a game? Or are they all contractors working at the mocap studio and such stuff? at wich Chris Roberts and his wife like to go spend some mocap holidays from time to time, when they're not busy spending backers's money on 1stclass travels or some montecarlo boat ?
I wrote a thing about instancing over at FDEV (https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/259596-The-Star-Citizen-Thread-v5?p=5168394&viewfull=1#post5168394)
I wrote a thing about instancing over at FDEV (https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/259596-The-Star-Citizen-Thread-v5?p=5168394&viewfull=1#post5168394)
The job just got a lot harder :wave:
(http://i.imgur.com/EUZnaSf.jpg)
Hey, who remembers back when I was saying that the CitizenCon presentation was just a "demo", with no ties to the game, and that 3.0 is a dream, that NONE of that is going in it etc. Not to mention the fact that, well croberts was basically lying when he said that 3.0 was coming "before Dec 19th".
Well, they had released this lore PDF. Since nobody actually reads them; bored Goons went back to take a look (God only knows why tbh) and, well, the evidence and hilarity were in there all along.
Just read the exchanges in this edition. It's amazing. Like, seriously, read it. The except below is just the tip of the iceberg.
Nov 2016 Jump Point edition (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/nrnu5u2bjvs3er/source/JumpPoint_04-11_Nov-16_Homemaking.pdf)
(https://i.imgur.com/2FtSYX1.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/Q4tkBQd.png)
@nightfire
Uh don't get me started on that 64Bit crap.
remember you could easily subdivide the space into sectors and only Positional Data needs to adress the floating point error (not quaternion neither scale)
32Bit Range = 2^31 − 1 = 2,147,483,647
Positional Data: (unsigned) Vector3(32b_X, 32b_Y, 32b_Z)[1cm Scale], Vector3(32b_X, 32b_Y, 32b_Z)[1.000km Scale], Vector3(32b_X, 32b_Y, 32b_Z)[1.000.000.000.000km Scale]
Positional Data max: 1.000.000.000.000.000.000.000km with a precision of 1cm in all axes
this is without touching the range of floating point error because I used only half of the 32bit total range (factor 1.000.000.000)
Whoaaahhh .. triple precision that musste be double double float!!! ... no it isnt't ... it's 3times 32bit which renders to 34bit (with one 32bit value left over) NOT 64 or 128 bit ...
the binary Data per axis would look like:
[00] [0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000] < 32 Bit + 2Bit that gives us 4 32 Bit values - (for easy computing and rendering we pass just 4 32 bit values to the GPU)
Basically KSP is doing it that way, though with 2 32 Bit Values not 3 as seen in this example.
Fake Edit: if you took the 4th 32bit value into the positional data you get ... tadaa ... in the sextillion range and if I shit on Floating point error safe zone in the 100 sextillion range (sounds familiar?)
Star Citizen is selling 34 bit as 64 bit without knowing how binary calculation is working (or with knowing and blantantly ...uhm... not telling the truth)
And this makes me angry, this is something we are working with for decades (tricking out variables was always there) ... now CIG comes in the year 2015 and is selling this as new feature ... and the blinded cultist are cheering and chanting that all other devs are to incompetent not to come with this earlier ... we did but we didn't lie to you and never make a fuss about it.
Overnight, 2 backers gave CIG $30K by buying 2 completionist packs (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/Combos/The-Completionist-Digital) (don't contain all the ships btw).The backers will never know ...
I kid you not.
Let's wait and see if they later put in for refunds; as that may be a clear sign of money laundering.
it crashed my game so hard that the sound started coming out of my monitor rather than my headset
32Bit Range = 2^31 − 1 = 2,147,483,647
Positional Data: (unsigned) Vector3(32b_X, 32b_Y, 32b_Z)[1cm Scale], Vector3(32b_X, 32b_Y, 32b_Z)[1.000km Scale], Vector3(32b_X, 32b_Y, 32b_Z)[1.000.000.000.000km Scale]
Positional Data max: 1.000.000.000.000.000.000.000km with a precision of 1cm in all axes
this is without touching the range of floating point error because I used only half of the 32bit total range (factor 1.000.000.000)
Whoaaahhh .. triple precision that musste be double double float!!! ... no it isnt't ... it's 3times 32bit which renders to 34bit (with one 32bit value left over) NOT 64 or 128 bit ...
[...]This is true if you only want to have one variable to store it all per axis
So at this stage I don't understand your conclusion yet that it's possible to represent 10^26 discrete values (units/cm) in 34 bits of storage, as it appears to me that it's not possible to get away with less than 87 bits. :confused: Please walk me through this part of the argument once more.
32Bit Range = 2^31 − 1 = 2,147,483,647
Positional Data: (unsigned) Vector3(32b_X, 32b_Y, 32b_Z)[1cm Scale], Vector3(32b_X, 32b_Y, 32b_Z)[1.000km Scale], Vector3(32b_X, 32b_Y, 32b_Z)[1.000.000.000.000km Scale]
Positional Data max: 1.000.000.000.000.000.000.000km with a precision of 1cm in all axes
this is without touching the range of floating point error because I used only half of the 32bit total range (factor 1.000.000.000)
Whoaaahhh .. triple precision that musste be double double float!!! ... no it isnt't ... it's 3times 32bit which renders to 34bit (with one 32bit value left over) NOT 64 or 128 bit ...
I hear you, but I can't quite figure out your calculation yet. Let me start with the above end result:
Our example coordinate system shall have a length of 1.000.000.000.000.000.000.000km, or 10^21 km per axis. The smallest unit of resolution shall be 1cm, so there are 10^26 units(cm) per axis (1km = 10^5cm).
In my understanding, entropy law dictates that a minimum of log2(x) storage bits will be required to represent x units in a discrete (integer) storage layout. In this case, log2(10^26) = 86.37. So at least 87 bits per axis would be needed to store every arbitrary coordinate value between 0…10^26-1 cm without loss of precision.
If we chose a floating-point storage layout, my understanding is that 10^26 = 27 "significant digits" would need to be stored in our case. Assuming the IEEE 754 floating point standard, the smallest layout which could accommodate this is quadruple-precision (128 bits, and 33 significant digits), since double-precision (64 bits) can only cope with 15 significant digits.
So at this stage I don't understand your conclusion yet that it's possible to represent 10^26 discrete values (units/cm) in 34 bits of storage, as it appears to me that it's not possible to get away with less than 87 bits. :confused: Please walk me through this part of the argument once more.
…
although you would need a 87bit variable to store ALL subsector, sector, universe and galaxy data at once (with a live precision of 1cm for EVERY cm including if there is nothing) which is senseless because there is only one you and all other systems would be empty, you would only need this if you can see everything in all galaxies at once (in other words if you are a God you'll need 87bit at least) - instead of this we reuse the coordinate system because we only need one position for every object - 64bit would be an almost godly waste at this point.
Lol guys, you should not worry too much about that, with CIG the result will always be = pizza
Ah yeah, remember back when we said that the Star Citizen networking kernel was getting worse? Right, you did. So go see just how bad it really is now in 2.6.1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kP2ek_L8Yk&feature=youtu.be&t=11m13s)
Star Citizen Newsletter - Regional Servers Inbound
February 3rd, 2017
Greetings Citizen.
Across all our studios, work on the upcoming Alpha 2.6.1 patch is progressing nicely. There’s still some UI work to complete and stability issues to iron out, but, as you can see in our updated production schedule report, we’re almost ready to get this latest patch into the players’ hands. In fact, we're happy to announce an addition to this patch. Thanks to the great work by the Live Ops, Backend and UI teams, we're moving up the release of the Regional Servers to 2.6.1, so players will be able to choose which server (North America, Europe, or Australia) they join to ensure the best connection possible. Once these are running, we’ll be able to run more tests to assess whether more locations will be needed.
This week I split my time between Foundry 42 offices in the UK and Germany. I’ll be spending another week in the trenches with the devs at Foundry 42 to oversee our advancement on a number of fronts.
Thanks to everyone who showed their support for Star Citizen last weekend at both PAX South and the community-organized Bar Citizen event in San Antonio, TX. It’s just another example of how dedicated and inspiring our fanbase can be. In fact, we’ve been looking for more ways to to bring the community front and center. That’s why this week we premiered a new show called Citizens of the Stars that focuses on the important part you play in Star Citizen. Give it a watch to see some of the incredible things the community is doing.
-- Chris Roberts
I still have no idea how 1000+ will be technically possible, but I know sod-all about game development.
And that quoted statement doesn't make a huge amount of sense, unless they're having instances ("servers") within instances ("instances") in which case it's still instanced, just called something different.
Hehe, I am generally aware of the concepts* and to be honest I'd rather that the term "Cloud" was replaced by "Someone Else's Computer" as it sounds a hell of a lot less magical.
The whole 1000+ simultaneous players thing makes no sense unless you can do some very clever peer-to-peer + view distance stuff as network traffic increases exponentially otherwise. Even if they paid for the computing horsepower, connectivity is always the bottleneck. I suppose that you could do other clever things with shuttling people between instances dependent on criteria like location/neighbouring entities/etc but that would be a nightmare to handle without lagging. All of this at a high-tick rate? yeah.. no.
*I received my BSc in Computer Science before the WWW existed (1994!) but ended up going down the corporate IT route so am not really involved in cutting edge stuff. I can still do the maths though!
But at the moment they are happy cause there was a company ... that works for CIG ... that has done a prototypechareye customizer ... through blendshapes.
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/5x0b8e/star_citizen_avatar_creation_3dlateral_tech/
That means basically Chris Roberts invented Blendshapes ...
IV.Internal schedules, the ones you will now be privy to, tend to have aggressive dates to help the team focus and scope their tasks, especially in the case of tech development. Every team, even a team blessed with the kind of support and freedom you have allowed us, needs target dates in order to focus and deliver their work.
The schedule is a clear indication that the game is a long - long - way off. Which is why they dare not be truthful about it, nor release the "real" internal schedule.
The schedule is a clear indication that the game is a long - long - way off. Which is why they dare not be truthful about it, nor release the "real" internal schedule.
Considering how many times the schedule mentions "bug fixing / polish", and how it focuses on so many petty tech details, I'm starting to doubt that the game will get much further than 2.6.2 at all.
Maybe they've decided by now that a 2.6.2 - 2.7 - 2.7.1 - 2.7.2… patch progression is most likely to carry them through 2017/2018 (with the key feature of 2.7 being the least complex 3.0 item which can be thrown together in a superficially working state, and later updates to that feature plus new ship concepts to keep backers at bay). Regarding how to proceed beyond that, they've probably agreed to cross the bridge when they get there in 2019.
Star Citizen 2.6.1 was released on February 18th, so conservatively 14 days ago. Only 5 players have more than 28 hours played of Last Man, and no player has more than 28 hours played of Elimination. Only 43 players have played more than 14 hours of either game mode.
Star Marine is dead.
[...] complex stuff will fuck up your flowgraph to a mess in no time ... [...]
Haha, I can't help but think that this is Newegg throwin' some collateral shade at Star Citizen
https://promotions.newegg.com/nepro/17-2173/index.html
So they rushed 2.6.2 (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15807-Star-Citizen-Alpha-262-Is-LIVE) out just so they could say they met the Mar deadline. It's broke AF (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/62tavs/262_poor_work/). Over 150+ bugs (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/community/issue-council/star-citizen-alpha?sort=newest&pagesize=25&page=6) logged so far.
Hilariously, they pushed it live 3hrs after it went to the PTU. :supaburn:
So they rushed 2.6.2 (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15807-Star-Citizen-Alpha-262-Is-LIVE) out just so they could say they met the Mar deadline. It's broke AF (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/62tavs/262_poor_work/). Over 150+ bugs (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/community/issue-council/star-citizen-alpha?sort=newest&pagesize=25&page=6) logged so far.
Hilariously, they pushed it live 3hrs after it went to the PTU. :supaburn:
So they rushed 2.6.2 (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15807-Star-Citizen-Alpha-262-Is-LIVE) out just so they could say they met the Mar deadline. It's broke AF (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/62tavs/262_poor_work/). Over 150+ bugs (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/community/issue-council/star-citizen-alpha?sort=newest&pagesize=25&page=6) logged so far.
Hilariously, they pushed it live 3hrs after it went to the PTU. :supaburn:
true, but to be fair....that was just the last iteration of the PTU build. 2.6.2 went to PTU on Tuesday IIRC. Buat anyway, I agree that they pushed it out just to prove a point .... Really feel sorry for all the backers still hoping for that awesomesauce patch 3.0 that will magically fix everything...
So they rushed 2.6.2 (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15807-Star-Citizen-Alpha-262-Is-LIVE) out just so they could say they met the Mar deadline. It's broke AF (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/62tavs/262_poor_work/). Over 150+ bugs (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/community/issue-council/star-citizen-alpha?sort=newest&pagesize=25&page=6) logged so far.
Hilariously, they pushed it live 3hrs after it went to the PTU. :supaburn:
true, but to be fair....that was just the last iteration of the PTU build. 2.6.2 went to PTU on Tuesday IIRC. Buat anyway, I agree that they pushed it out just to prove a point .... Really feel sorry for all the backers still hoping for that awesomesauce patch 3.0 that will magically fix everything...
Yes it was; and that was my point. These bugs were already known in that PTU build; but they pushed it live anyway.
So they rushed 2.6.2 (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15807-Star-Citizen-Alpha-262-Is-LIVE) out just so they could say they met the Mar deadline. It's broke AF (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/62tavs/262_poor_work/). Over 150+ bugs (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/community/issue-council/star-citizen-alpha?sort=newest&pagesize=25&page=6) logged so far.
Hilariously, they pushed it live 3hrs after it went to the PTU. :supaburn:
Star Citizen Patch 2.6.3
Welcome to Alpha PTU 2.6.3! This patch is primarily dedicated to bug fixes, with continued focus on stability and game performance!
During this initial testing phase, PTU access will be restricted to a small group of players that we will expand on over time as required. Your launcher should show “2.6.3-523117” as the client version. It is strongly recommended that players delete their USER folder for the Test client after patching, particularly if you start encountering any odd character graphical issues or crash on loading. The USER folder can be found (in default installations) at C:\Program Files\Cloud Imperium Games\StarCitizen\Test.
Please review our current list of Patch 2.6.3 Known Issues, and take full advantage of our Issue Council area of the Community site to report any bugs you encounter, as well as contribute to other players submissions.
Important Issues:
No issues to report!
Updates and Fixes
Star Systems:
Crusader
Fixed another issue causing the ASOP terminals to state “All pads are full” in error.
Game Systems:
Star Marine
Fixed an issue where players who stayed in their spawn rooms at the end of round 2 should no longer see themselves die at the beginning of round 3. Fixed several collision and environmental issues found within Echo Eleven.
Technical:
Fixed a number of client crashes. Made a number of performance tweaks to Echo Eleven and OP Station Demien.
So they rushed 2.6.2 (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15807-Star-Citizen-Alpha-262-Is-LIVE) out just so they could say they met the Mar deadline. It's broke AF (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/62tavs/262_poor_work/). Over 150+ bugs (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/community/issue-council/star-citizen-alpha?sort=newest&pagesize=25&page=6) logged so far.
Hilariously, they pushed it live 3hrs after it went to the PTU. :supaburn:
As I hilariously predicted from the rushed 2.6.2 patch, they've now pushed an "out of band" 2.6.3 (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/1/thread/alpha-2-6-2-ptu-status-evocati-testing) patch to Evocati.
It's as if they rushed 2.6.2 out in time for the latest (failing) Drake ship sale (http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=53.msg1329#msg1329). No, that couldn't possibly be it.
Patch notesQuoteStar Citizen Patch 2.6.3
Welcome to Alpha PTU 2.6.3! This patch is primarily dedicated to bug fixes, with continued focus on stability and game performance!
During this initial testing phase, PTU access will be restricted to a small group of players that we will expand on over time as required. Your launcher should show “2.6.3-523117” as the client version. It is strongly recommended that players delete their USER folder for the Test client after patching, particularly if you start encountering any odd character graphical issues or crash on loading. The USER folder can be found (in default installations) at C:\Program Files\Cloud Imperium Games\StarCitizen\Test.
Please review our current list of Patch 2.6.3 Known Issues, and take full advantage of our Issue Council area of the Community site to report any bugs you encounter, as well as contribute to other players submissions.
Important Issues:
No issues to report!
Updates and Fixes
Star Systems:
Crusader
Fixed another issue causing the ASOP terminals to state “All pads are full” in error.
Game Systems:
Star Marine
Fixed an issue where players who stayed in their spawn rooms at the end of round 2 should no longer see themselves die at the beginning of round 3. Fixed several collision and environmental issues found within Echo Eleven.
Technical:
Fixed a number of client crashes. Made a number of performance tweaks to Echo Eleven and OP Station Demien.
Their obvious 2.6.3 fix to the "full launch pads" bugs, created a problem (ships spawning inside other ships) being experienced by a lot of people
and i am sure as soon as they drop whatever they are now calling 3.0 , moron whales will go mad and will start throwing money at cig as always. and plz derek find out what cig is paying boredgamer, his lies and deception are at its peak. :laugh:
The major change this week in 3.0.0 is the delay of the network bind / unbind, which is now schedule AFTER the 3.0.0 release. Since it's a stetch goal, I think it's safe to say it probably won't be met, and therefore not included in 3.0.0. This has important implications, since it's the component responsible for improving dramatically the FPS by reducing the amount of useless data each client has to process.
Another big change is the volumetric fog, which has been delayed by 25 days. But it's still far from being a problem, since it was scheduled very early.
I like how the oft-delayed network revision - the core of the engine - is now an imaginary "stretch goal". wat!?My goodness. For months we've been hearing how pivotal "3.0" and the "fixed netcode" would be for the development of the game, both terms being used as standard boilerplate to counter virtually any complaint one could have about bugs or missing features in the current state. Once the netcode was fixed, poof, the game would be able to run a shit ton of instances lag free, capital ships and multi-crew would become possible, and everything else would finally come together as well.
And now, "over there" the cultists are already starting to revise history, claiming that "3.0" never was a big deal in the first place, and that the "fixed netcode" wasn't planned to be part of it yet anyway, let alone the need to "rewrite the netcode from scratch" which until recently was the common understanding.
They still don't get that it is their MVP.
Let's not forget that, now in Summer 2017, 6 years and almost $150 million later, assuming they do release a 3.0 with these moons, they still haven't completed 1 of the 110 systems (https://starcitizentracker.github.io/) they promised for the game. All of which contain stations, planets, moons, asteroid fields etc. This is the game's star map (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/starmap). Not even 1% of that is built.
Let's not forget that, now in Summer 2017, 6 years and almost $150 million later, assuming they do release a 3.0 with these moons, they still haven't completed 1 of the 110 systems (https://starcitizentracker.github.io/) they promised for the game. All of which contain stations, planets, moons, asteroid fields etc. This is the game's star map (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/starmap). Not even 1% of that is built.
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/672z98/how_can_the_possibly_make_all_those_planets_for/
Even now, some backers still believe that once the Miracle Tool (aka "SolEd", wtf?) has been crafted, entire systems can be put together with "copy/paste", and that it will only take a day to make a planet. Let's forget for a moment that in a different saga, an Entity much more resourceful than CIG had to put in an entire 7 day week to make that work… but then again, not everyone understands game development :D
Some of these Star Citizen backers are completely broken (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/672kdd/lol_i_think_i_prayed_for_star_citizen_last_night/)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-HRr54XUAAgcYU.jpg)
Needs modifying for Star Citizen
Perfect..Needs modifying for Star Citizen
(http://i.imgur.com/zcNjPmS.jpg)
If SC 3.0 or 2.7 is bad, then rather than blame CIG, they will blame Derek Smart and Goons. How far they will go (usual death threats, attempted DOXing, lies, swatting, turning up at people's houses) at this point i would not put anything past them, again to me some do seem to have clear and genuine mental health issues. With the money being dropped into SC I'm concerned that we will have "fans" doing some extreme things to support the game, can't say what for sure but I do see it happening.
6 years + $150 million (of other peoples money) + 500 team = visual fidelity of pooping in your space suit.
https://gfycat.com/FlickeringDefensiveBluetickcoonhound (https://gfycat.com/FlickeringDefensiveBluetickcoonhound)
6 years + $150 million (of other peoples money) + 500 team = visual fidelity of pooping in your space suit.
https://gfycat.com/FlickeringDefensiveBluetickcoonhound (https://gfycat.com/FlickeringDefensiveBluetickcoonhound)
6 years + $150 million (of other peoples money) + 500 team = visual fidelity of pooping in your space suit.The more things change, the more they stay the same.
https://gfycat.com/FlickeringDefensiveBluetickcoonhound (https://gfycat.com/FlickeringDefensiveBluetickcoonhound)
"So with the next big release a lot of the underlying game is there and then we can look at transferring people between servers so we can have hundreds of thousands of people maybe in one instance, but that doesn’t come online until later."
The geezer two to the right of Roberts is the geezer that is responsible for the PU isn't he ?
He isn't looking overly excited about what Croberts is saying about those thousands of people.
He looks decidedly ill.
"CryEngine was a starting point," Frazzini explains. "At this point, over 50% of the code in Lumberyard is written by Amazon engineers. We don't have an active commercial or strategic relationship with Crytek. We wish them the best, but where they go from here is entirely separate and different from anything we're doing with Lumberyard."
The recently unveiled female character model from a $148 million "game"
We don’t have planetary landing we have landings on various space stations then we have three main space stations and six or seven communication satellites scattered around the Crusade gas giant. We’re not going to have the planetary landings this year. It will be next year. It will definitely be like the CitizenCon we saw in 2014 but probably much better.
"You wont be able to seamlessly land on a planet from free flight (but we will have a nice in engine cinematic that feels fairly seamless).
Planets are really your "save" points and where you go to trade, upgrade your ship and get missions / hear gossip of profitable trade runs or pirating opportunities"
You wont be able to seamlessly land on a planet from free flight (but we will have a nice in engine cinematic that feels fairly seamless). Planets are really your "save" points and where you go to trade, upgrade your ship and get missions / hear gossip of profitable trade runs or pirating opportunities
I’m incredibly happy to hit this goal as it green-lights a very important research project aimed at **improving Star Citizen’s long term future**. With this funding, we’ll be **looking into procedural generation** to help build the universe out in a greater detail and scope **in ways we didn’t think possible when we started developing the game**! We will have some exciting **announcements to make down the line** involving some of the talent we’ve been talking to about helping us with procedural system and planet building.
Procedural Generation R&D Team – This stretch goal will allocate funding for Cloud Imperium to develop procedural generation technology for future iterations of Star Citizen. Advanced procedural generation will be necessary for creating entire planets worth of exploration and development content. A special strike team of procedural generation-oriented developers will be assembled to make this technology a reality.
“An artist can crank out five or six moons in a week for you,” Roberts told us, emphasizing that “once you've got your building blocks, somethings will be quicker. There isn't going to be a matter where we hit a magic number and, 'boof,' here comes a planet.”
"We are going to use it as a tool for universe building. I know a lot of people think Star Citizen is purely hand-crafted and that something like Elite or No Man's Sky is all procedural, but the reality is that all of these games have a mix of hand-crafted and procedural stuff in them."
“We load the Mega Map as we would a standard map. The Mega Map itself is empty, but once the Mega Map is loaded, we actually start to fill the Mega Map with content of various game modes, fire, and object containers. So, we would load the Mega Map, which is empty; load the front end, which is a set of object containers; [and] load the front-end game rules, which tells the game how to work in that game mode. The user would then pick a new game mode to play. At that point we throw away all the object containers. We throw away the game mode, [then] load in the Free Fly game mode and the Dying Star object containers, but we do that via streaming rather than a complete level load, so we are able to shave the vast majority of the load time down to a few seconds rather than long enough to warrant a load screen.”
The recently unveiled female character model from a $148 million "game"Uh. OK.
ps: Line Of Defense does not have seamless space<->planetary transitions because 1) the bases on the planets are all handcrafted 2) they needed to be separate so that our networking tech can better handle "per scene" updates, and thus be able to handle a large number of players. Mass Effect: Adromeda also does it this way.
The recently unveiled female character model from a $148 million "game"Uh. OK.
First off, why make her so damn plain? Realism is one thing, but most of us play games to get away from reality for a while. Why give her bags under her eyes and a face just born for frowns?
Also, the body proportions look... off. Like her legs are too short. I know, the image cuts her off at the ankles, but still. Might be a result of that though, so we'll table that objection.
The outfit looks ridiculous. The pants and jacket over top are okay, but what's with the thumb-only gloves? What the heck are THOSE supposed to be?
Maybe I'm just being a shallow guy, but I'd like my female models to at least look mildly cute or maternal. This just looks like the definition of 'cranky cat lady'.
This is a real thread apparently made unironically
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6bforh/procedurallygenerated_meals_for_mess_hall/
This is where we're at I guess.
The problem is that Roberts isn't a perfectionist. He wants to be one and constantly uses the word 'fidelity' in every interview to make it come across that way, but he can't pull it off. He's just not smart enough.
Nothing about the current iteration of any of SC's in-game modules, ship sales, lore, forums, or whathaveyou has any semblance of perfection. They're all half-broken, glitched tech demos that have half of their features/concepts broken.
Now it looks like he can't even get basic character creation right.
And they're going to be skimming an additional $5 off the top of CCU accounts (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/ship-upgrades) now. Wait until those people who have cheap $30 ships with LTI (for CCU down the road), find out they have to pay $5 more to upgrade. LOL!!
But don't worry though; this is totally not a scam; and according to those guys on Reddit, they have about $85 million in the bank :D :D :D
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_qBGsgXcAEkVre.jpg)
QuoteThere is also a potential design issue related to the number of ships in the universe at launch. We are getting to the point where we need to drill down deeper on things like ship rarity, overall dispersion and the like. When we don’t know how many ships may be present at launch, this makes it much more difficult. The implications there are far-reaching: if Carracks are the most popular ship then we need to put more resources on exploration… if Buccaneers are everywhere then we need to build missions that will be challenging and fun for Bucc pilots. It’s something that touches every part of Star Citizen.
I feel like the guys who have gone back on their promise of "We'll never sell this ship again" several times to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars don't get to suddenly start being worried about artificial rarity on some of their spaceship jpegs. That boat sailed when CIG decided to reopen sales on limited ships like five years ago. Also, taken literally, this paragraph implies that they're doing away with the mantra of "no best ship" and plan on weighting the number and type of missions in the final game (lol) to appease owners of whatever the most common ship is, which is hilarious. I hope everyone's ready for Ace Combat: Worse And In Space, because fighters are far and away the most popular ships in the game, because CIG keeps selling more/better versions of them.
Also, there's no way this doesn't start a firestorm:QuoteThe second part is longer term, but very important: we will plan for a process to expire the unused $0 CCUs from the system. We want existing CCUs to be used as intended: to pick a ship that works for you, and not as a permanent ‘anything goes’ option. This will not happen immediately, but as we approach 3.0 it will be an important part of this process. And we want you to know in advance that this is coming.
Some people (most people, by Zyloh's own admission) have been holding on to CCU tokens with the intent to use them for the purpose they were meant for - as the game comes together you can figure out which ship best fits your playstyle and CCU to that to make your "final decision." People who have no idea how the a Reclaimer is going to work but think they might want to mine, for example. They're doing this because CIG told them to, and now CIG is taking that option away before all the ships or mechanics are even in the game.
The key to it all is that you can only CCU to a ship that's currently in-game.
Let's say CIG has ships A,B,C, and D on sale in-store ready to go. You buy Ship A, but can buy a "token" to change Ship A to any of the other ships. The token costs whatever the difference is in the price of the ships, and you get to keep all the other widgets that originally came with your Ship A (LTI, Alpa access, etc...). You can buy this token, but it's not used immediately on purchase, because maybe you decide you like Ship A after all, or whatever. Who knows.
Later on, CIG announces that they are going to be making ships E,F, and G. You really want Ship G instead of Ship D, but you want to keep your LTI, so you wait and wait and wait until it gets put in the game, and CCU your Ship D to a Ship G. That's how they're supposed to be used.
Now let's say you really really want Ship D, but you want it with LTI and they're no longer offering it. They are however offering a concept sale on Ship E and it comes with LTI. You buy Ship E - still in concept - then spend dollars to CCU it to Ship D - already in game - now with LTI even though they stopped "selling" Ship D with LTI three years ago.
NOW, let's say you think you're gonna want a Ship D way down the line, but you're not sure. So you buy a bunch of tokens for each of your ships to turn them into Ship D just in case you want to way down the line. You hold on to them, eventually they put Ship D in the game but it's twice as big and $100 more than it cost when you bought the CCU tokens. The token's value doesn't change, because it allows a straight trade and you paid the difference in value at time of purchase. So now you can take your Ship A and turn it into a Ship D for $100 less than it's currently selling for, AND you still have your LTI and game package and alpha access. Even better news, LTI Ship Ds are selling on the marketplace for $100 more than they're selling for on CIG's website, so if you sell it you're up 200 bucks. So in this case it's absolutely in your best interest to just stockpile CCUs to EVERY ship possible on the off chance you decide you want one or it triples in size and price and you can make some money.
They built an insanely shitty system and now they're mad at their users for min/maxing it.
When they can't forsee the problems they create with CCUs what chance in hell do they have to foresee the ways people will make use of the PU in ways players and CIG find objectionable ?
[...]Anatomically female legs are indeed shorter than male legs, this is a fact that is often forgotten because the industry sells products to make them appear longer.
Also, the body proportions look... off. Like her legs are too short. I know, the image cuts her off at the ankles, but still. Might be a result of that though, so we'll table that objection.
[...]
I believe the model is perfect, it has captured a lot of Sandi and I can see where the designer made the model look just a tiny bit better looking.
All I have to say on that! :smug:
That's not how it works :)I believe the model is perfect, it has captured a lot of Sandi and I can see where the designer made the model look just a tiny bit better looking.
All I have to say on that! :smug:
Ha, great post.
I think they used the mo-cap tech on Sandi to scan her body then tried to touch it up and add more 'fidelity' to her.
In today's ATV @ 16:43I find it hard to believe he didn't just misspeak on that one.
"There is one Sun in the galaxy, which will light all of the planets"
There goes the 110 starsystems.
In today's ATV @ 16:43Guess misspelled/uninformed and they mean per star system :) ... and you know there is no way to have a single light projecting over this distance :)
"There is one Sun in the galaxy, which will light all of the planets"
There goes the 110 starsystems.
I hope he mispoke because if there is only one Sun, that's not a galaxy, it's a star system.
In fact, the starmap shows that they have Sol starsystem (http://"https://robertsspaceindustries.com/starmap?location=SOL&camera=60,0,0.002,0,0"). And Stanton system, which they are supposed to be building out, has its own star, Terra Nova (http://"https://robertsspaceindustries.com/starmap?location=TERRA.STARS.TERRANOVA&system=TERRA&camera=5,160.4,0.0003,0,0").
VOLUMETRIC FOG
The completion date has moved back due to unexpected issues with implementing the Volumetric fog awy from Lumberyard to work correctly with our systems.
ETA is 26th May (was 18th May)
Since 3.0 lite's first schedule report on April 14th, the projected release date has been moved back from June 29th to (between July 6th and) July 20th.
Five weeks in and they're already one-to-three weeks behind (most likely three). That's impressive planning, even for CIG. :laffo:
If they continue at this spectacular production rate of five weeks forward, three weeks back::toot: Star Citizen: 3.0 lite in time for CitizenCon :toot:
- By June 23rd, release pushed back to August 10th
- By July 28th, release pushed back to August 31st
- By September 1st, release pushed back to September 21st
- By October 6th, release pushed back to October 12th
3.2 (3.0 full-fat, as promoted at last Gamescom for end of 2016) by CitizenCon 2018? :ohdear:
Ship-to-ship docking just got cut (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6cxkjk/ship_to_ship_docking_postponed_after_release/) from the feature list (like Derek reported over a year ago), but backers didn't believe him at the time and now they're pissed.
Looks like some are now trying to justify it (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6d1jzw/docking_collars_wont_be_the_last_feature_to_be/) by saying 'we always knew that Roberts couldn't deliver on everything he promised!'
Comedy gold.
Ship-to-ship docking just got cut (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6cxkjk/ship_to_ship_docking_postponed_after_release/) from the feature list (like Derek reported over a year ago), but backers didn't believe him at the time and now they're pissed.
Looks like some are now trying to justify it (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6d1jzw/docking_collars_wont_be_the_last_feature_to_be/) by saying 'we always knew that Roberts couldn't deliver on everything he promised!'
Comedy gold.
Disco Lando mentioned that Private Servers are the last thing they will look into and that some of us will be probably dead before it will be released ...
On top of that ... with all this planned server cluster structure in an AWS cloud, it's pretty impossible to make it local, furthermore if you are planning to have local servers you need to think of them from day one ... you can not tack them on ...
@dsmart in your recent article, you mentioned that private servers are out? Tried searching for any news on that but came up empty. Could you provide a link?
Thanks!
Related:
10FTC Episode 42 Question 9 (http://scqa.info/?show=10FTC&episode=42&qid=9)
Question: "Other large MMO games - especially "single server" sorts of universes - have historically seen large groups of players banding together in the name of "disruptive" behavior. This can take the form of denying an area of the game to other players, controlling the economy, or just generally causing havoc. What are your plans for the Star Citizen universe to accommodate the lone freelance miner caught up in the madness?
Chris Roberts: "even the largest player group in a given area will make up less than 10%. The other issue is, because we have such high fidelity, we can't have too many people in one particular instance, like in AC the limit at the moment it's only 8 people, with 1.0 we'll have some new tech that we've made that allows much greater player numbers in one instance, but even with a best case scenario at the moment of 50-100 players, there are only so many people that can be crammed into one instance. Matchmaking will help limit these things, like say an organisation might only be able to occupy a certain portion of an instance, there will be slots reserved for friends of other players in that instance as well. It won't be a case where a thousand people can get together and control an area anyway, even if they fill that instance, there could be another instance of the same space that matchmaking might put you into because you're unrelated to whatever activity is going on there."
10FTC Episode 43 Question 8 (http://scqa.info/?show=10FTC&episode=43&qid=8)
Chris Roberts:"Most planets have instanced space around them, it's not unique. So if there's a planet and you got 50 people in orbit and our limit is 50 people per instance, the 51st and 52nd player that enter that orbit get put into a second instance around the planet again, they just don't see the other 50 people etc etc"
I just saw this post (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen_refunds/comments/6d5xti/lets_talk_network_instancing/) in an OSC thread (in response to my latest article on networking & instancing (http://dereksmart.com/forums/topic/star-citizen-musings/#post-5263)) on RedditQuoteRelated:
10FTC Episode 42 Question 9 (http://scqa.info/?show=10FTC&episode=42&qid=9)
Question: "Other large MMO games - especially "single server" sorts of universes - have historically seen large groups of players banding together in the name of "disruptive" behavior. This can take the form of denying an area of the game to other players, controlling the economy, or just generally causing havoc. What are your plans for the Star Citizen universe to accommodate the lone freelance miner caught up in the madness?
Chris Roberts: "even the largest player group in a given area will make up less than 10%. The other issue is, because we have such high fidelity, we can't have too many people in one particular instance, like in AC the limit at the moment it's only 8 people, with 1.0 we'll have some new tech that we've made that allows much greater player numbers in one instance, but even with a best case scenario at the moment of 50-100 players, there are only so many people that can be crammed into one instance. Matchmaking will help limit these things, like say an organisation might only be able to occupy a certain portion of an instance, there will be slots reserved for friends of other players in that instance as well. It won't be a case where a thousand people can get together and control an area anyway, even if they fill that instance, there could be another instance of the same space that matchmaking might put you into because you're unrelated to whatever activity is going on there."
10FTC Episode 43 Question 8 (http://scqa.info/?show=10FTC&episode=43&qid=8)
Chris Roberts:"Most planets have instanced space around them, it's not unique. So if there's a planet and you got 50 people in orbit and our limit is 50 people per instance, the 51st and 52nd player that enter that orbit get put into a second instance around the planet again, they just don't see the other 50 people etc etc"
It is not a game worth playing if you want an MMO type experience. Far too few players can influence your gameplay -and thats if it ran well - which it isnt going to do. It is almost pointless owning anything worth anything in this type of game because you are going to have no lasting impact on the game world and can only hope to acquire assets from a very small number of other players.
it will be far far more "fun" working out how to steal or destroy the assets of those that have them than to try and preserve assets you have spent a lot of $$ on whilst doing something with them (other than holding them in a hangar to pull yourself off over)
And Take-Two Interactive beats them by buying another game (company). All hail the Kerbal (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/161355-ksp-acquired-by-take-two-interactive/) :woop:
In a strange sort of way I'm impressed at their progress on 3.0. I expected even more delays than this.
So that's something I guess.
In a strange sort of way I'm impressed at their progress on 3.0. I expected even more delays than this.
So that's something I guess.
Define "progress".
So the latest 3.0 schedule (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/schedule-report) is out. Here is a diff between previous and current versions (https://www.diffchecker.com/xFvadA7j).
Looks like a bunch of things are delayed but up to 3 weeks. A bunch of others are now TBD. Which means they're likely to be cut from the schedule.
At this rate, they will be lucky to have 3.0 out by Gamescom (Aug 22-26). Which means they're probably going to make it the highlight of their fundraising.
Line 47: Procedural Planets
Line 154: Netcode
Line 162-182: Cargo
Line 180: Repair. This was feature complete in the last schedule. Now it's back on the menu + 2 weeks.
Line 208-211: Component system (in case you missed it, read my latest Quora reply (https://www.quora.com/What-computer-should-I-buy-to-play-Star-Citizen/answer/Derek-Smart) regarding performance issues)
Line 349: Volumetric Fog. Notice how it was due to be completed on June 9th (today), but somehow isn't marked as "Feature Complete"? Yeah, me too.
Line 378: Mission System Broker. Delayed a whole - freaking - month. LOL! I'm dying.
Either all you morons responding are literally IQ below 20 or you actually just are white knighting so hard you can't even see it. I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE FUCKING SCHEDULE. I am TALKING about the fucking LIES said last year that they were giving 3.0 by dec. 19. Which was an OBVIOUS lie. Then the fact they said JUNE. Which they OBVIOUSLY had the plan to release it at gamescom. Its fucking stupid of anyone to just think ooooh, wow, gee what a coincidence!!!! I mean give me a god damn break. For real. Stop being moronic. Schedule or NOT, they just PUT whatever they want is delayed so WHOA, MAGIC, it will be JUST IN TIME FOR GAMESCOM. FFS we all said it 1st
Im with ellindar.
How was 3.0 supposed to release end of last year given how many things are obviously not ready and features are slipping?
You'd have to be a liar or be totally incompetent to give these kinds of estimates. My guess is that CR is both. Lying straight up about release dates to get more people on board and funding then slowly spacing it out and buying time as we are seeing here. And also completely detached from technical side of things - promising things that are straight up impossible then gutting stuff out.
I think there has been a ton of mismanagement for this project. And im losing hope fast. If 3.0 doesnt deliver something substantial im bailing. I only pledged a few hundred so whatever.
Also dont give a shit about all the cultists who pledged thousands and are too deep in the hole to have any reasonable discussion.
So we've been told many times that the game's engine ('Star Engine') has been changed a lot from the original CryEngine (/Lumberyard) base, but the differences listed are usually to do with physics and gameplay features. My question is: What about the rendering/graphical side? How much has this been changed from the original CryEngine?
That's a mighty big question! Here's a quick list of the main features, but I'm sure we'll have forgotten some stuff!On top of this there's procedural asteroids and the huge amount of tech for procedural planets, but these strictly speaking aren't so much part of the renderer but higher level features that feed content to the renderer.
- Object space shader damage (allows 4 different types of damage to be permanently inflicted on ships, including cutting holes, and blended seamlessly into the base shading)
- Real time environment-probe capture and compression (avoids needing to bake probes in space and on planets)
- Image based lens flares (use entire source image to simulate 4 different physically based lens distortions per colour channel on up to 20 individual elements)
- Physically based bloom (wide exponential kernel based purely on light intensity)
- Human eye exposure simulation (capture histogram of light intensity from both screen and surroundings, isolate range of light we intend to focus on, simulate both pupil and photo-pigment reactions for quick and slow reactions)
- Major improvements to planar lights (far more physical basis now which results in major quality improvements)
- Intelligent mesh-merging system (repeatedly searches for best bang-for-buck mesh merge opportunity in a scene until we hit a memory limit)
- Upgraded volumetric fog (e.g. support for planar lights, light-boxes, env-probe priority sorting)
- Major upgrade to shadow pool system (all lights share one giant pool for better dynamic resolution scaling, shadows can be cached between frames for better performance)
- Render target pooling (shares memory between internal textures used in the renderer to vastly reduce VRAM usage)
- Render to texture pipeline (ability to render secondary viewports with full or limited feature set to then be used as textures in the primary scene, e.g. video comms or holograms)
- Tiled lighting upgrades (use rasterization light culling for greater efficiency, particle support)
- Density based LOD algorithm (LODs change based on polygon density to ensure consistent appearance, less artist intervention, and promote more optimal art assets with fewer sub-pixel polygons)
- GGX normal map filtering (gloss adjusted in mip-chain to best fit of our GGX lighting model to give the same results as super sampled normals)
- Camera relative rendering (allows 64bit world without incurring any rendering performance hit by maintaining 32bit precision for rendering)
- GPU Particle System (built from the ground up for efficiency, distinct from Lumberyards and CryEngine's GPU particle systems)
- Various improvements to transparency sorting (generalized system, allow depth of field and motion blur to not effect nearby in-focus objects, order independent transparency for specific shaders such as hair)
- Artist friendly profiler (captures statistics per art-team, and per area of the level allowing accurate breakdowns and quick diagnosing of performance issues)
- Physically based atmospheric scattering
- Hierarchical object management (efficient searches and culling, local coordinate frames for things like ships inside ships on planets which are rotating etc)
Ali Brown
Coming in Around the Verse today: We look at Serialized Variables, essential network tech to building the Star Citizen Persistent Universe!
Serialized variables is also a cornerstone of building a persistent universe, it’ll require multiple servers communicating with each other*
- This means several servers can be aware of an entity all at the same time, how they decide which one gets the final say is using tokens
- A token can only be held by one computer at a time, this means by linking serialized variables and tokens they’ll be able to transfer authority from one server to another as quickly as flicking a switch
Thanks. (I don't advise anyone read this rant.)
Okay, the first thing he's doing is mush-mouthing the concept of 'entities' (or objects) with the idea that all the 'entities' (or objects) need to be networked. That's what we call a 'sweeping generalization', or a very reductive model. It is vaguely meaningless.
Handwave the backend communication, that's all Austin...
Client/Server communication, alright...
Okay, he's describing a problem of bandwidth and fidelity, where bandwidth is the limitation in supplying bits to the client/server and fidelity is the detail of the 'model' that it's trying to sling around. What they're doing is trying to offload the problem of a lack of awareness in the programmers into a formalized process.
Network programming is not *very hard*, and while it takes years to learn the ins and outs, stay the fuck out of the OSI model, it's layered for a reason. It's certainly _esoteric_, but it's entirely logical and while the scale can blow your mind, it's patterned behavior that just iterates really quickly.
huh, API? Why is that man using an OO analogy? Why is he refusing to call it an interface?
Oh Application _Programmer_ Interface, not Application _Program_ Interface, like the rest of the world.
None of this is networking. He's completely handwaving anything to do with networking.
Every 'entity has it's own table' is a key-value store. This is how anything persists; mysql, SQL, NoSQL, Mongo, SQLite, csv, struct. This is not complex.
Updating single values within rows usually requires re-writing the row, although you can serialize a value ad infinitum; overhead comes in how it's stored.
Sending the full entity states periodicially isn't required if you hash the entity table and look for a hash comparison. eg. The md5 hash for 'I am a delicious hawaiian pizza' is always '9b019256aabd5ae063661e6b5b78b7db'. Hash your table, send a comparison, check it, if it differs, update the full state.
Hell, I used to use a system of grouped states back in the 1990s; hashed the full store and three sub-groups because bandwidth was even tighter back then.
"We have not solved the bandwidth problem."
No shit, you still have *n problem unless you're loading spreading and doing the backbone over extremely low latency connections, which Amazon is not going to help with.
OMIGOD, they discovered key updates.
HAH subgrouping.
Wait, so their big idea is to binary-pack a key-value pair to send via UDP? That puts them back in the same place they were; TCP would indicate that a value was received, but not changed. I'm not seeing how this isn't entirely circular back to the start of the piece apart from the binary pack?
Lol at the macros being the timesaver.
Oh, dear god, previously we would have needed functions in each class, or read the chapter on polymorphism.
Admission that there's no unit testing that would stop a programmer 'forgetting' a variable.
The API is an _abstraction_ of the concrete class. I'm hoping C++ programmers can correct my shit, because there's no actual networking in this piece other than an acknowledgment that they're running into problems with physics. This is normally an _interface_ that strips down a more anal definition or model into a more bite-sized chunk so you don't spin cycles on defining the color of something if you only need it's speed. It's a way of stopping polymorphism hell.
Okay, their network engineer is describing object oriented programming. He's also tacitly admitting that they have a problem with key/value updates on an atomic level because there is finite bandwidth involved. One of the reasons why this is a problem is because there are two types of packet in the world; TCP and UDP.
UDP is just a stream of shit. It's thrown at the client and can arrive in any order, or not arrive at all. The sending side doesn't care, it's your problem to store and deal with the stream. This tends to get used with games to do positional updates, which is why tight bandwidth or throttling causes people to jump around and rubberband. UDP packets have a particular size and you want to stay inside that, or the client has to deal with trunca
TCP is pendantic. It has to be received, and received in the right order. A client will ask for a sequence again if it arrives out of order, and if it misses a packet, it'll do the same. Downloading files works like this, because getting chunks of file in the wrong order will make it useless.
if you're firing key/value updates with UDP, then some of them may not get through. Firing with TCP means they get through, eventually. This is why there is an older model of using UDP to do updates, then having TCP rebuild the key/value store. Small, frequent updates of vitals, with larger sync updates for abstracts.
He is _completely right_ about the challenges they still face; the number, frequency and priority of the messaging are _the things that will kill bandwidth_ and limit their instance occupancy, particular unless they shard that server. They're looking at packet size x packet frequency x packet quantity x player and will shag themselves over if they don't build in some of the things that Eve has been doing to calm the packetstorm.
very tl;dr - They've discovered how to do __get and __set over the network between the store and the client; news at 11. Get a goddamned refund.
Yeah. It's all rubbish really.
Here is another good write-up (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3800238&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1293#post473465769) by Hav, over on SA.
These are not new techniques, in fact I would say it's a little outdated given languages like Go handle this a lot better.
1) Taking into account tokens on AWS - depending on the size of their EC2 instances that it becomes a very difficult to filter out the noise between a MA (master server) and SA (listening servers), if you have five servers, four being listening servers then by definition those servers will be getting traffic from clients (except for the master server if you have any sense), if the token switches that means that server will have to drop all client data and then dynamically reallocate the clients to the server that has passed on its token. If all five servers are sending and receiving traffic then the master effectively becomes swamped with clients at the same time as losing its token = chaos. TL;DR if they do use tiered servers with tokens and dynamically switching it will be very difficult to maintain consistency, if they don't then they will run into bandwidth issues anyway.
2) Why are they attempting to reinvent the wheel? There are already third party engine modules of CryEngine that handle this already in a pre-built form? This means a lot of time has been used for something that has already existed off the shelf for ages, if it doesn't do what they want it to do they could very easily modify them, they're open source or licensed models provide the source.
3) This is adding another layer to their engine, at this point with so many layers how will they debug? They mentioned it in the video but now you run into the issue that the client (or one of the clients) may not necessarily know which server has the token (or if there are connectivity issues) in which case it becomes more difficult to troubleshoot and diagnose. This is not bad within itself if you have a custom toolset for debugging issues written for your platform, but again you're adding time creating one. Thus more code to maintain (refactor as CIG likes to say) from revision to revision of the custom written network stack as part of the custom written modules as part of their bespoke engine (Star Engine or Lumberyard with heavy customisation). More techdebt.
Everything is fucked. And delayed. Again
Also, quick synopsis from Nicholas over at SA (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3800238&pagenumber=1294#post473473899)
Completed
- Rover
- "Reworked" Cutlass Black
- "Reworked" Devastator Shotgun "Some minor polish remains"
- "Reworked" Arrowhead Sniper rifle "Some minor polish remains"
- Mobiglass refactor
- Diffusion subset for 3.0
Delayed
- Derelict ships. this was marked feature complete but also delayed 2 weeks (ETA is 30th June)
- Items 2.0 ROVER AND DRAGONFLY IN SHIPS (ETA June 27th)
- Asteroid Physics (ETA June 23rd)
- Exposure Improvements (ETA June 30th)
- Solar System Service Shop (ETA June 23rd)
Other
- New Message Queue has "a number of issues noted" (no longer has an ETA)
- Repair - "Code Complete Bugfixing to follow as needed" (no longer has an ETA)
So...
- 4 reworks of things already finished, but still not actually completely "finished"
- a new golf cart marked complete even though you cant transport it or use it on a planet
- and whatever the fuck "diffusion subset" means.
- Actual gameplay features 0
64 Bit
MMO with 1000s if not 100.000s clients
Quote from: CIG64 BitQuote from: CIGMMO with 1000s if not 100.000s clients
Failure before first line of code is written (except they are writing their own OSI modell with designated protocol)
nuff said
*drops mic*
Yeah, we called bullshit on that one right off the bat. They still can't get more than 8 clients in an instance before the server falls over. :laugh:
Yeah, we called bullshit on that one right off the bat. They still can't get more than 8 clients in an instance before the server falls over. :laugh:
Game runs bad even when its offline - this guy did interesting tests:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/starcitizen-performance-cpu-scaling-in-hacked-offl
So basically engine just can not process all that "fidelity"...after 5 years...
6 ships in instance = 20-25 fps...
Also does anyone knows which game has the record for most players in an instance and how much??
i recently saw wargamming new map where they are doing 30 vs 30 battle!!!! so 60 players
Once Star Citizen switches to Vulkan you will see an increase ...
Lol i went through the link and i truly felt sorry for the blind fan boys..
Lol i went through the link and i truly felt sorry for the blind fan boys..
And after looking at those results, I am even more confident that they just can not build promised game, even single player SQ42 part...because engine just can not handle those over complicated ship designs..
All backers blame netcode for bad PU performance in SC forums, but looks like even engine in offline mode can not handle all those ships...
Quote from: SomeUserInTheForumOnce Star Citizen switches to Vulkan you will see an increase ...
I love this one :D Vulcan is a derivate of OpenGL. AFAIK Their current modell is DirectX (DX11).
If they change the render API they have to rework EVERY motherfuckingkiwibastard Shader / Graphic / Model because OpenGL handles them all a little bit differently.
And after looking at those results, I am even more confident that they just can not build promised game, even single player SQ42 part...because engine just can not handle those over complicated ship designs..
All backers blame netcode for bad PU performance in SC forums, but looks like even engine in offline mode can not handle all those ships...
I think they'll keep releasing patches and new versions of the game, but they won't be anywhere near what was promised. Half of the features that they promise for each patch (to generate hype and get more money) won't be in the patches and will instead be pushed back/delayed by years. Eventually CIG won't be able to keep up with the promises-to-backlog ratio and it will all collapse.
It's only a matter of time before the most hardcore backers start to see what's going on. The general gaming community already has enough sense to stay away from this project until the game has been proven to be viable.
CIG decided to start scheduled 06/23 concept sale (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/Standalone-Ships/Aopoa-Nox-LTI-Warbond) ($45!) today. No doubt in response to my earlier tweets about tomorrow's 3.0 schedule.Small ugly racer after they dropped the CCU stuff ... guess this will be another 50k like fathers day .... and many hours more engineering debt
So in today's AtV where they were flogging the latest concept ship/bike, they also had a segment (FF to 26:46) about SolEd. Their solar system editor.
It's hilarious that they are showing a tool - outside of the CryEditor that's basically barebones for entity placement. So they've moved away from the procedural worlds now and shown that they have to build the entire game world - by hand. In an editor. Q.E.D.
This video is great because it captures exactly what free eyes see and experience when they try the game.
I don't waste my time with watching these kind of videos completely. His final conclusion segment starts at 28:00 and isn't bad. He captures the current state of SC right on the nose:
"Remember people, never invest more then you're willing to loose. This is doublely true with Star Citizen. It's not a complete product. It's not even a beta. It's an early technical alpha that has great potential to be one of best space games of our time. Or, the most funded failure of all time in video games."
Now we just have to wait the next few months to see his last prediction turning into the correct one.
His analysis is fundamentally flawed and at odds with what he has done.
I dont know the guy buy he clearly has some intelligent points to make about the game and gamers.
What he seems to be missing is a financial or business understanding of where this is likely headed which is understandable because it is difficult to be expert in all the disciplines required to analyse a project like this.
There is also the fact that his own actions dont really add credence to his position. He says he has resisted looking at SC all this time despite lots of requests to do so, now he has, he has spent some cash. Yet he says others should only risk what they are prepared to lose. The point is any sensible analysis would show people tending to get more and more invested to a point where it would be unreasonable to conclude backers could really "afford" to lose.
Yet the project is likely to fail....on the balance of probabilities it is silly to spend money on it at this point in time.
Do as I say not as I do..
INHABITED DERELICT SHIP SITES
PICK UP & CARRY
INSURANCE (Code Complete. Now supporting bugfixing)
CARGO (Code Complete. Now supporting bugfixing.)
KIOSK SUPPORT (Code Complete. Now supporting bugfixing.)
ENGINE TRAILS & CONTRAILS
ASTEROID PHYSICS ( * Feature Complete)
SOLAR SYSTEM MISSION SERVICE V1 “MISSION BROKER”
MISSION GIVERS
Eckhart has been implemented in Subsumption, now just need to polish and iron out the kinks. The team will now start setting up Ruto with the goal that both Mission Givers will be fully setup by the end of the next sprint.
ETA is 14th July (was 30th June)
DELAMAR / LEVSKI
Due to the time required for the correct implementation of the elevators and their local physics grids this date has moved back slightly
ETA is 7th July (was 30th June)
ITEM 2.0 SHIP CONVERSION – PART 2
Due to issues with the last remaining ships we want to make sure all are fixed before implementation.
ETA is 3rd July (was 30th June)
DOORS AND AIRLOCKS
During an internal milestone review that we had this week, we identified further elements of work and polish that we will aim to have completed for next week’s milestone review.
ETA is 5th July (was 30th June)
ROVER AND DRAGONFLY IN SHIPS
The conversion to the Item 2.0 ships and how they work has introduced unforeseen issues with their physics. This will require a combination of Tech Design and Physics code to address the situation. This is proving to be a more in-depth problem than initially anticipated and the code team was pulled to help support elevators and general physics crashes which we necessary for internal review.
ETA is 12th July (was 27th June)
HINT SYSTEM
A few of the required engineering tasks were slightly delayed in their completion this week due to bugfixing being required on other systems.
ETA is 12th July (was 27th June)
ENTITY UPDATE COMPONENT SCHEDULER
Good progress has been made on this feature for 3.0.0, however an issue was discovered that severely affected ships. The LA Engineering team is currently busy supporting the item 2.0 ship conversion and the UI team with the implementation of their features, their support is required for this particular bug so we had to wait until they were available, resulting in a delay.
ETA is 7th July (was 30th June)
ENTITY OWNER MANAGER
Work on this feature was paused in order to support various bugs and feature polish for this week’s milestone review.
ETA is 7th June (was 28th June)
ITEM 2.0 MULTI FUNCTION DISPLAYS
Completion of this task was delayed due to support teams being focused on internal milestone demo review.
ETA is 7th July (was 29th June)
CHARACTER CUSTOMIZATION
Delayed due to team’s focus on priority tasks for internal milestone review.
ETA is 25th July (was 17 July)
PERSONAL MANAGER APP
Work on this task has been postponed so team can focus on resolving other systems.
ETA is 3rd July (was 27th June)
CARGO MANIFEST APP
Delayed due to team’s focus on priority tasks for internal milestone review.
ETA is 7th July (was 3rd July)
VEHICLE CUSTOMIZER APP
Delayed due to team’s focus on priority tasks for internal milestone review, specifically the Hint System.
ETA is 13th July (was 6th July) ETA is 27th July (was 13th July)
SHIP SELECTOR APP & INSURANCE CLAIM
Delayed due to team’s focus polishing the mission manager.
ETA is 19th July (was 5th July)
INVENTORY SYSTEM
ETA is 7th July (was 3rd July)
STARMAP APP
UI will break down feedback from internal milestone review and begin to address issues that came up.
ETA is 7th July (was 29th June)
COMMS SYSTEM UI
Delayed due to team’s focus on priority tasks for internal milestone review.
ETA is 18th July (was 10th July)
MISSION SYSTEM
Some bugs are blocking completion of the mission system which the AI team requires support from the LA Engineering department to resolve. However, LA Engineering are currently closing out their remaining tasks for milestone reviews before they are able to provide support for this.
ETA is 19th July (was 30th June)
RENDER TO TEXTURE
Various other requirements for this system have been discovered in the course of development that were not originally apparent, but are required for building a robust and scalable system for the future.
New ETA is currently being scoped out based on our internal review findings
PHYSICS SERIALIZATION
All work for this feature is currently undergoing a thorough code review between some of the Lead Engineers due to the complexity of the work. So far the review is going well, but is probably not going to be complete until early next week.
ETA is 3rd July (was 30th June)
Delayed due to unforeseen shortage in resources.
ETA is 17th July (was 21st June)
Delayed due to team’s focus on priority tasks for internal milestone review.
ETA is 25th July (was 17 July)
So, they ran out of money to make it until their Citizencon and had no option to get a(nother) normal loan. So they took extreme measures by securing a new loan that is covered by a tax rebate. They either wanted a loan as big as the tax rebate, a loan larger than the tax rebate or the bank saw troubles no matter what (or quite possible, all three reasons apply) and so the bank decided to ask for *everything* as a collateral. Just 2B on the safe side.
Seems to me that on Citizencon, RSI/CIG needs to raise at least enough money to make the required payback, even better would be the whole loan sum and the best would be to even top that and make enough money to make it until the tax rebate. Since this is not very likely, I really would like to know how Citizencon goes and how that effects everything. A bad Citizencon probably means Game Over I think. I doubt there are lots of people left who still will fall for everything CIG puts out there. They've been tricked enough now and the latest events with the loan etc. are now effecting even some of the most hardcore backers. It's killing me by now :supaburn:
So, they ran out of money to make it until their Citizencon and had no option to get a(nother) normal loan. So they took extreme measures by securing a new loan that is covered by a tax rebate. They either wanted a loan as big as the tax rebate, a loan larger than the tax rebate or the bank saw troubles no matter what (or quite possible, all three reasons apply) and so the bank decided to ask for *everything* as a collateral. Just 2B on the safe side.
Seems to me that on Citizencon, RSI/CIG needs to raise at least enough money to make the required payback, even better would be the whole loan sum and the best would be to even top that and make enough money to make it until the tax rebate. Since this is not very likely, I really would like to know how Citizencon goes and how that effects everything. A bad Citizencon probably means Game Over I think. I doubt there are lots of people left who still will fall for everything CIG puts out there. They've been tricked enough now and the latest events with the loan etc. are now effecting even some of the most hardcore backers. It's killing me by now :supaburn:
I think that by the end of this year they need to make enough $ to cover their operating costs for another 12 months.
They will be hoping that whatever they release or promise to release will generate enough sales.
As someone else has mentioned, moons might mean selling ground installations for Backers. I am no expert but I would have thought you could knock them up fairly cheaply and quickly.
Don't underestimate the power of the sunk cost fallacy. Any whiff of progress and plenty of the Backers lap it up and off they go for another 6 months.
The writing is on the wall but they could slip in (documentation) that whatever they release is the MVP (hoping Backers don't notice much) and carry on till the ship goes down.
If they don't make enough by the end of 2017 they will be left with trying to limp their way to next years major funding rounds or doing even more drastic public stuff - selling more JPEGS and eventually asking for Backer help to save the project.
I think that by the end of this year they need to make enough $ to cover their operating costs for another 12 months.
SURFACE OUTPOSTS LIGHTING
ITEM 2.0 SHIP CONVERSION – PART 2 (Feature Complete. Bug fixing in progress.)
DOORS & AIRLOCKS (Feature Complete for 3.0.0. Bugfixing in progress.*)
HINT SYSTEM (Feature Complete for 3.0.0. Bugfixing & polish in progress.)
PHYSICS SERIALIZATION (Code Complete. Bug fixing in progress.)
DELAMAR / LEVSKI (STRETCH GOAL)
We are adding the planet Delamar and the landing zone, Levski
There are currently issues with the room system markup that need to be revisited by the Design team to be fixed.
ETA is 14th July (was 7th July)
INVENTORY SYSTEM SUPPORT
The inventory will offer a way to manage the cargo and commodities that are being carried by the ships a player owns.
Date will remain connected to the UI team’s progress on the inventory.
ETA is 14th July (was 3rd July)
ENTITY UPDATE COMPONENT SCHEDULER
The LA Engineering team is currently busy supporting the item 2.0 ship conversion and the UI team with the implementation of their features, their support is required for this particular bug so we had to wait until they were available, resulting in a delay.
ETA is 14th July (was 7th July)
ENTITY OWNER MANAGER
LA Engineering has identified additional tasks needed to support persistence and netcode.
ETA is 14th July (was 7th July)
ITEM 2.0 MULTI FUNCTION DISPLAYS
The code side of this is now complete and is now down to UI Art to implement.
ETA is 11th July (was 7th July)
PERSONAL MANAGER APP
Further polish work is needed to implement a profile selection and create a pop-up to select between loadout slots, but requires a little more time to complete.
ETA is 10th July (was 3rd July)
CARGO MANIFEST APP
Delayed due to team’s focus on priority tasks for internal milestone review.
ETA is 14th July (was 7th July)
INVENTORY SYSTEM
Delayed due to team focusing on this week’s milestone review.
ETA is 14th July (was 7th July)
STARMAP APP
The UI team have now broken down the feedback from last week’s review and adjusted their estimate.
ETA is 18th July (was 7th July)
COMMS SYSTEM UI
Delayed due to knock-on effect of the delay to the inventory system work.
ETA is 25th July (was 18th July)
RENDER TO TEXTURE
Additional requirements were discovered in development that were not originally apparent, but are required for building a robust and scale-able system for the future.
ETA is 27th July
- MISSION GIVERS
- DELAMAR / LEVSKI (STRETCH GOAL)
- INVENTORY SYSTEM SUPPORT
- ROVER AND DRAGONFLY IN SHIPS
- ENTITY UPDATE COMPONENT SCHEDULER
- ENTITY OWNER MANAGER
- ITEM 2.0 MULTI FUNCTION DISPLAYS
- CHARACTER CUSTOMIZATION
- PERSONAL MANAGER APP
- CARGO MANIFEST APP
- VEHICLE CUSTOMIZER APP
- SHIP SELECTOR APP & INSURANCE CLAIM
- INVENTORY SYSTEM
- STARMAP APP
- COMMS SYSTEM UI
- MISSION SYSTEM
- RENDER TO TEXTURE
- VOLUMETRIC FOG (still schedule to be completed on June 9th)
- APOCALYPSE ARMS SCOURGE RAIL GUN (still schedule to be completed on June 9th)
- INSURANCE
- DOORS & AIRLOCKS
- CARGO
- KIOSK SUPPORT
- REPAIR
- HINT SYSTEM
- MISSION MANAGER APP
- PHYSICS SERIALIZATION
- ITEM 2.0 SHIP CONVERSION – PART 2
- ARROWHEAD SNIPER RIFLE
- KSAR DEVASTATOR-12 SHOTGUN
Once again, sources are telling me that the performance issues seen in the AtV video, are thus far insurmountable, and that they don't know how this 3.0 patch is ever getting released without that being addressed.Now just imagine those planet meshes have to rotate (on Pi) and orbit (also on Pi) while calculating 64Bit coordinates (position, rotation) for every entity on the panet ... and now share this over the network through UDP ... (little hint it will lag, rubberband and jerk all over the place even if the whole architecture is a gigabit LAN)
More talk about it possibly ending up being #justanotherlevel via a menu option.
Claim that if they were to release 3.0 within the "next 90 days", that it would be an unmitigated disaster.
I hope they release it - at least to Evocati (so I can get my hands on it).
CryEngine is legendary for its performance issues in pure fps games. We've seen in the 2.6.x builds just how horrendous it can be with all these fidelitious models in it. Now go and add million plus polygonal planets.
But croberts is arrogant enough to release 3.0, regardless of performance issues, then advocate to backers that they should upgrade their machines to run it. Most of them probably will. The rest will put in for a refund.
Most of them probably will. The rest will put in for a refund.
Once again, sources are telling me that the performance issues seen in the AtV video, are thus far insurmountable, and that they don't know how this 3.0 patch is ever getting released without that being addressed.Now just imagine those planet meshes have to rotate (on Pi) and orbit (also on Pi) while calculating 64Bit coordinates (position, rotation) for every entity on the panet ... and now share this over the network through UDP ... (little hint it will lag, rubberband and jerk all over the place even if the whole architecture is a gigabit LAN)
More talk about it possibly ending up being #justanotherlevel via a menu option.
Claim that if they were to release 3.0 within the "next 90 days", that it would be an unmitigated disaster.
I hope they release it - at least to Evocati (so I can get my hands on it).
CryEngine is legendary for its performance issues in pure fps games. We've seen in the 2.6.x builds just how horrendous it can be with all these fidelitious models in it. Now go and add million plus polygonal planets.
But croberts is arrogant enough to release 3.0, regardless of performance issues, then advocate to backers that they should upgrade their machines to run it. Most of them probably will. The rest will put in for a refund.
Most of them probably will. The rest will put in for a refund.
Hello Derek;
While I agree with you I still wonder how many real physical backers there are left beside the disabled brains obeyfirst-ish and alike :shrug:
Also please whoever FED agent reading this, put SG and OF into jail where they belong please. In my opinion, not Derek's for the retards (shitizens) there that don't make any difference. Geez do I have to write this.
With all this data I think we can all work out a few similar ways the conference scam season is going to go this year.
I am beginning to think that there will be no 3.0 until after both conferences and we might see something purporting to be 3.0 by Q2 2018 (if they milk enough in JPEG sales on the back of some ropey stitched together bullshit presentation and lies from CRoberts about needing more time to get it right)
Saw today's ATV in that the guy said they are making characters to be used in SC as well as SQ42...
but i recall chris saying that sq42 is all grey box or better so how does this add up.. :wtf:
are they preparing characters for part 2 and 3 of sq42 :laugh: :laugh:
Completed
Personal Manager App
Klaus and Werner Arclight Pistol
Delayed
Inventory System Support
ETA is 20th July (was 14th July)
Entity Owner Manager
ETA is 20th July (was 14th July)
Item 2.0 Multi Function Displays
UI have been implementing these screens while supporting other features, so QA can test each area as soon as possible. While this benefits us from a testing point of view, it has resulted in an overall delay in completion.
ETA is 18th July (was 11th July)
Cargo Manifest App
ETA is 20th July (was 14th July)
Inventory System
Progress has been affected due to the work on the Search Feature.
ETA is 20th July (was 14th July)
Mission System
We are continuing to build on the mission system AI in order for design to implement more missions for inclusion in 3.0.0
ETA is 24th July (was 19th June)
Render to Texture
This system is still in progress, but due to its overall size and some of the other features for 3.0.0 that require Render to Texture, teams are using the system as soon as they are able, which means that Render to Texture is requiring bug fixing support while it’s being developed which results in further delays of the system as a whole. The date below does also take dedicated bug fixing time into account.
ETA is 10th August (was 27th July)
NEW TASKS
RSI Aurora
This is an updated version of the Aurora. We previously didn’t think that we would have the time to complete this rework for 3.0.0, however, with the movement of our release dates we are now able to include this rework with 3.0.0.
ETA is 21st July
Gemini L86 Pistol
Rework of the legacy weapon.
With the moving of our release date, this weapon rework has been signed off to be included for the 3.0.0 release.
ETA is 28th July
Behring P4-AR
Rework of the legacy weapon.
With the moving of our release date, this weapon rework has been signed off to be included for the 3.0.0 release.
ETA is 19th July
REMAINING
- MISSION GIVERS
- DELAMAR / LEVSKI (STRETCH GOAL)
- INVENTORY SYSTEM SUPPORT
- ROVER AND DRAGONFLY IN SHIPS
- ENTITY UPDATE COMPONENT SCHEDULER
- ENTITY OWNER MANAGER
- ITEM 2.0 MULTI FUNCTION DISPLAYS
- CHARACTER CUSTOMIZATION
- CARGO MANIFEST APP
- VEHICLE CUSTOMIZER APP
- SHIP SELECTOR APP & INSURANCE CLAIM
- INVENTORY SYSTEM
- STARMAP APP
- COMMS SYSTEM UI
- MISSION SYSTEM
- RENDER TO TEXTURE
- VOLUMETRIC FOG (still scheduled to be completed on June 9th)
- APOCALYPSE ARMS SCOURGE RAIL GUN (still scheduled to be completed on June 9th)
- RSI AURORA
- GEMINI L86 PISTOL
- BEHRING P4-AR
July 7th Schedule Report
Completed: 5
Delayed: 11
Remaining: 19
July 14th Schedule Report
Completed: 2
Delayed: 7
New Tasks / Refactoring: 3
Remaining: 21
Render to Texture
This system is still in progress, but due to its overall size and some of the other features for 3.0.0 that require Render to Texture, teams are using the system as soon as they are able, which means that Render to Texture is requiring bug fixing support while its being developed which results in further delays of the system as a whole. The date below does also take dedicated bug fixing time into account.
ETA is 10th August (was 27th July)
Gamestar visited Foundry 42 Frankfurt to play a preview of Alpha 3.0
A preview of an Alpha :lol:
Gamestar visited Foundry 42 Frankfurt to play a preview of Alpha 3.0
A preview of an Alpha :lol:
The Germans aren't happy with you Derek.
http://www.pcgames.de/Star-Citizen-Spiel-3481/News/Derek-Smart-Gamestar-Titelstory-Propaganda-Twitter-1233287/
To the war mobile!
Wow, german magazine is directly attacking a private person in america for personal opinions on twitter ... btw this is sueable.The Germans aren't happy with you Derek.
http://www.pcgames.de/Star-Citizen-Spiel-3481/News/Derek-Smart-Gamestar-Titelstory-Propaganda-Twitter-1233287/
To the war mobile!
Yeah, I know. :bahgawd:
Wow, german magazine is directly attacking a private person in america for personal opinions on twitter ... btw this is sueable.The Germans aren't happy with you Derek.
http://www.pcgames.de/Star-Citizen-Spiel-3481/News/Derek-Smart-Gamestar-Titelstory-Propaganda-Twitter-1233287/
To the war mobile!
Yeah, I know. :bahgawd:
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6nnjau/thank_you_cig_for_insurance_makes_sense/
Insurance, a game mechanic that will lock you out of the game with the possibility of paying real $$$ to overcome this mechanic (this includes LTI).
I stopped counting the faults that are within this mechanic. How can any game developer think for a second that this is something you want to have in your game?
This is far more evil than everything that EA or Ubi could have ever thought of.
Sure I can play without a ship, I could go shopping or join acrewmopping division (and try to destroy the other players ship from the inside because I got bored while waiting). Or just pay the bill and get my ship back faster.
You've died
- Please insert coin -
And don't forget the bugs :)https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6nnjau/thank_you_cig_for_insurance_makes_sense/
Insurance, a game mechanic that will lock you out of the game with the possibility of paying real $$$ to overcome this mechanic (this includes LTI).
I stopped counting the faults that are within this mechanic. How can any game developer think for a second that this is something you want to have in your game?
This is far more evil than everything that EA or Ubi could have ever thought of.
Sure I can play without a ship, I could go shopping or join acrewmopping division (and try to destroy the other players ship from the inside because I got bored while waiting). Or just pay the bill and get my ship back faster.
You've died
- Please insert coin -
And even the most basic forms of griefing can expose the bullshit expectations of backers and lack of knowledge CR has of MMOs etc and how a large percent of the playerbase play them.
I remember that crappy demo they did one conference where the Shitizens were ecstatic at seeing a ship land on a station and some supposed FPS SM gameplay.
Some of us pointed out the $250 Connie was ripe for stealing and it wouldnt have lasted 20 seconds on the deck, unlocked before someone knicked it and sold it on for real world $$$ or crashed it into someone else's ship and left them with the repair bill....
Scams and "greifing" or just Mercenary activities would get a lot more creative than this ruse that took 5 seconds to come up with.
So I'm going to assume 3.0 will drop in some form at some point. I'm also going to assume they will have seamless space to moon transitions and a few things to do whilst on the surfaces.
There's going to be a lot of media attention if they do. There's going to be more funding because of it. They're going to be given the license to carry on as they have been doing. No repercussions. No accountability. No reasons to change.
Is nobody going to try the law with this company? In fact didn't you start legal proceedings against CIG Derek? I seem to remember a tweet saying you had.
I'm guessing the 3.0 will be another disappointment that will open a lot of backers' eyes. Most of them will (finally) see the replay of last year and will not invest any further. The funding collapses and that's teh end of CIG. Those too blind to see will not keep CIG afloat.
Only investors and backers have that power. I don't, as I don't have "standing" in any lawsuit against them. I do have a case for defamation against CIG and Chris Roberts, but I have no interest in pursuing that because it would be too distracting, and cost (my liability insurance won't cover it, unless they sue or counter-sue) too much by the time we get around to the Star Citizen part.
So all we can do now is just wait, watch, and laugh.
What would be the reasoning for the lawsuit? CIG isn't using their employees like you want them too?
There needs to be a basis for a civil lawsuit--some kind of damages. If you are a backer and unhappy with CIG--CIG right now simply gives you back your money. Once CIG gives you back your money--there is no civil case. Now once CIG runs out of money and/or announces they have released a game and will no longer provide refunds--that is when we might start seeing civil cases.
The AWS service CIG are using have an element called 'GameLift' that amazon say allows latency dependant games to work well for up to millions of players. Sounds good. I'm guessing the truth isn't so simple though?AWS used to be expensive and slow due to all the "beginner features" that are implemnted, maybe now its just expensive ...
"Built on AWS’s proven computing environment, Amazon GameLift lets you scale high-performance game servers up and down to meet player demand. You pay only for the capacity you use, so you can get started whether you’re working on a new game idea or running a game with millions of players."
"Q. Does Amazon GameLift work for latency-intolerant games, such as first-person shooters? Does Amazon GameLift add latency to my game?
Amazon GameLift is designed to work for latency-intolerant games. Amazon GameLift introduces no additional latency during gameplay."
https://aws.amazon.com/gamelift/faq/
CIG have been seen saying their technology is going to do things never been done before and that they can't go into specifics about how and what exactly they're doing. It's the make or break issue I feel. Content can be created. The laws of physics though...not so much.
It's crunch time for them. Survival on the line. 3.0 to 4.0. Over to you CIG, what you got?
The Titanic posted:
My thoughts on landing and day night cycles:
CIG can pull off a day night cycle currently as well as a planet rotating (not orbiting anywhere, just spinning in place) by not requiring the ship to actually land. Just get close to the planet and you auto-land in a loading cutscene.
They can also time the FPS sun to the orbit sun pretty easily. Of course they should also be able to have the ring on their space station rotate easily too, so there's a good chance they'll fuck this up if they try it.
But a loading zone, planet rotation that doesn't require actual reentry, and an FPS day and night cycle could be very doable for their 3.0 stuff.
I predict that 3.0 is going to be an unmitigated disaster if they release it before year end. But they will, because they have no choice. They have a LOT riding on this one, and Spergs really think this is the 'one' that brings salvation & vindication to the flock.
I predict that 3.0 is going to be an unmitigated disaster if they release it before year end. But they will, because they have no choice. They have a LOT riding on this one, and Spergs really think this is the 'one' that brings salvation & vindication to the flock.
CR will just bait and switch again. He'll rattle off some speech about how some core tech was still needed but they were a matter of days/weeks away from releasing a "proper" 3.0 but will release what they have. This days/weeks becomes months and all of sudden 4.0 is the new jesus patch.
So am I to take it Derek, that adding various middleware modules onto an already existing engine is an easier and more stable solution to modifying an existing engine with the people who made it in the first place?
This seems counter intuitive to me. Surely the more modules you add on, the more likely it is to cause conflicts. Obviously I know little on the subject but it seems you're outright accusing the devs at CIG of lying in every video they put out. It seems unlikely they would all be happy to bare faced lie on camera about their progress and achievements.
Isn't it possible that they could, after many years of work, have modified enough of the engine to do what they claim they've done?
A guy called Occam would think so. Doing what they say they're doing is the simplest explanation, rather than the whole company making stuff up on camera to the tune of these stories of inevitable failure.
Something doesn't add up. I suppose 3.0 will aid us all in our mathematics.
CIG claim to have a single map, millions of km in size, populated with object entities, such as planets and moons etc, that is all accessible seamslessley, without loading screens, streaming data to the clients as you approach them. They've talked about this and shown it in numerous ATVs and other places. They've said they get real time day and night cycles because of this way they've built the game. They've said they can have planet rotation and orbits.
You seem to be suggesting they can't do what they have repeatedly said they can do. 0% probability, as you say up there, means anyone who has said they've got the ability to do it is telling a lie. Each and every time. I find it unlikely that everytime a dev on ATV has said they can do any aspect you've mentioned as being impossible, they've been telling lies. After all, they're the ones working with the modified engine, not you. How sure can you be about them having zero percent probability of achieving something they say they can, and have, achieved, when you don't have access to their cryengine base code?
I do not like absolutes. I'm a scientist and nothing has zero percent probability...
At this point in time, a lot of Backers don't actually want a game, they are paying for an "experience" and CIG know it.
Star Citizen and SQ42 are just ideas and paying for JPEGS lets you pretend you are part of a new frontier in PC gaming and can talk about being in the club.
Just when you thought the Star Citizen saga couldn't any more ridonkulous, this is the latest JPEG that's going on sale.is this a buggy with ground to air combat missles? ... WTF
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFNCFlEWsAA5qXo.jpg)
CIG claim to have a single map, millions of km in size, populated with object entities, such as planets and moons etc, that is all accessible seamslessley, without loading screens, streaming data to the clients as you approach them. They've talked about this and shown it in numerous ATVs and other places. They've said they get real time day and night cycles because of this way they've built the game. They've said they can have planet rotation and orbits.
You seem to be suggesting they can't do what they have repeatedly said they can do. 0% probability, as you say up there, means anyone who has said they've got the ability to do it is telling a lie. Each and every time. I find it unlikely that everytime a dev on ATV has said they can do any aspect you've mentioned as being impossible, they've been telling lies. After all, they're the ones working with the modified engine, not you. How sure can you be about them having zero percent probability of achieving something they say they can, and have, achieved, when you don't have access to their cryengine base code?
Yeah because in the history of the gaming industry, devs have never lied or flat out made shit up. It's one thing to have stuff in R&D and claim to have it, than to actually implement it. If you go back to 2013, since the first version of this train-wreck, they've talked up a bunch of tech and features that either are long forgotten, or yet to be implemented. Even to this day, they're still doing it. There are no day/night cycles. No orbiting moons and planets. In fact, no planets - period.
I remember in Oct 2016 when everyone thought that the presentation being passed off as 3.0 - complete with a glitchy worm - was actual client code that was coming in Dec 2016. Then CIG came clean that it was all mostly R&D. Then they made a "Road To CitizenCon" video.
My stance hasn't changed, and I don't care what anyone says, the game they can't build the game they promised. They can make as many claims as they want, it won't change my stance.QuoteI do not like absolutes. I'm a scientist and nothing has zero percent probability...
Common sense doesn't require scientific acumen, proof, or basis.
This really freaks me out ... they barely got a flight model to work lets just ignore the 60 different ships they have to balance now count ground to air combat in this ...
This is something that should be in an expansion 2 years after release .... I guess we can now count the days until they put planetary buildings for sale ...
They are really gonna sell every fucking asset in the store ...
Well, they have to keep everybody longing for something new. Another ship, who cares. Whoo, a buggy, that's nice.
It doesn't matter anymore. They can't pull a rabbit out of the hat again in August and the certainly can't do/top that in October. It'll be all over by December. Even all the whales can't compensate the steady loss of funding.
This project isn't finished yet, no where near.Even better, this project will never be finished :smuggo:
How sure can you be about them having zero percent probability of achieving something they say they can, and have, achieved, when you don't have access to their cryengine base code?
How sure can you be about them having zero percent probability of achieving something they say they can, and have, achieved, when you don't have access to their cryengine base code?
That's an easy one to answer; you can just judge by their current progress. Obviously if they had an unlimited pot of money and unlimited time they could probably make any game they wanted - in that sense it's not an impossibility. When you look that so far they have a tiny % of the game they want to make and already have burned their way through many millions (depending on how you estimate their spending to date) you can begin to see that there's no way they finish the game in the way they have described. The only thing holding this whole house of cards from crumbling down is a thin veneer of glue known as the jesus patch - the promise that they are just 1 patch away from fixing all the huge problems with the game and allowing a very quick, streamlined addition of content all the way to full alpha and beyond.
They need sales, this is nothing new and neither are ground vehicles. Ursa, hangar buggy, dragonfly etc. When they release 3.0, whenever that may be, backers will have a few things to move around these uniquely huge cryengine assets with. Of course it's going to excite some. The funding tracker tells us to the tune of a quarter million dollars in a day. That's a decent level of interest still.
As long as they can get money for concepts then there is hope the technology will catch up with the plans. More time to do the 'impossible'. I mean, just because it hasn't been done yet, doesn't mean it can't be done. If the funding doesn't dry up and they keep plugging away at it they're bound to get something worthwhile in the end.
Moving from a moon to a planet when you've gone from maximum map size of 10km X 10km to millions X millions doesn't sound like a tough ask. Once they have moons I doubt planets will be far behind.
The gamescom presentation will be vital to the funding. Create more buzz and the company keeps on keeping on. Get moons out to backers and there will be much rejoicing and wallet opening.
This project isn't finished yet, no where near.
That's an easy one to answer; you can just judge by their current progress. Obviously if they had an unlimited pot of money and unlimited time they could probably make any game they wanted - in that sense it's not an impossibility. When you look that so far they have a tiny % of the game they want to make and already have burned their way through many millions (depending on how you estimate their spending to date) you can begin to see that there's no way they finish the game in the way they have described. The only thing holding this whole house of cards from crumbling down is a thin veneer of glue known as the jesus patch - the promise that they are just 1 patch away from fixing all the huge problems with the game and allowing a very quick, streamlined addition of content all the way to full alpha and beyond.
That's silly. Just because it hasn't been done yet doesn't mean it won't be done. They talk about their new systems coming online which, if true, might well allow a lot of the touted features to be possible.
Some said 2.0 was impossible yet it got done. A single cryengine map, millions of square kilometres in size. If you'd just looked at arena commander you may have made the same conclusion. 2.0 can't be done, AC is only 10 X 10km or so, no way they can make a map millions of kilometres a side...
Recent sales have proved they can raise money as and when they want so it's not dieing anytime soon. With time and more money who knows what will be become possible.
It would be nice if you could at least try to be objective Derek. Nobody has made a cryengine map bigger than a few kilometres square before. CIG converted to 64 bit positional coordinates and produced a cryengine map millions of km across that you can travel seamlessly. To suggest that's been done before is either willful ignorance or a straight up lie.
On the finances you've answered your own questions. If they were running out of money they would be cutting staff left and right wouldn't they? Stories of non payment of wages leaking out etc. Instead they're growing the studios. I've heard that they're running out of money for a couple of years now...and here we are, still a going concern, still developing.
They're moving landing zones in the alpha because intra system travel isn't coming for quite some time yet but the landing zones have been worked on for a while. They'll be moved back to their rightful positions once they have different systems to travel to.
The FPS counter visible in some development videos means nothing. At all. I'm sure you know that. No context. No value.
It impossible that everything they do is incompetant, fabrication or plagiarised, yet some around the web will try to tell me it is so. I just don't buy it. Troubled they may be but a product is coming. What type of product is the interesting bit.
[...] The CIG staff who are innocent in the matter lose their job, we lose the game we dreamed for, we all lose.Except the Roberts Clan they've won, millions of backers money for a wealthy future.
It would be nice if you could at least try to be objective Derek. Nobody has made a cryengine map bigger than a few kilometres square before. CIG converted to 64 bit positional coordinates and produced a cryengine map millions of km across that you can travel seamlessly. To suggest that's been done before is either willful ignorance or a straight up lie.
On the finances you've answered your own questions. If they were running out of money they would be cutting staff left and right wouldn't they? Stories of non payment of wages leaking out etc. Instead they're growing the studios. I've heard that they're running out of money for a couple of years now...and here we are, still a going concern, still developing.
They're moving landing zones in the alpha because intra system travel isn't coming for quite some time yet but the landing zones have been worked on for a while. They'll be moved back to their rightful positions once they have different systems to travel to.
The FPS counter visible in some development videos means nothing. At all. I'm sure you know that. No context. No value.
It impossible that everything they do is incompetant, fabrication or plagiarised, yet some around the web will try to tell me it is so. I just don't buy it. Troubled they may be but a product is coming. What type of product is the interesting bit.
The problems and rumors that come with financial troubles normally appear when there are no further rescue means available. The moment CIG has to make clear that they're in financial trouble is the moment that the project collapses. You can't burn thru almost 200 mil. and then expect someone to keep funding you so you can continue because you ran out of money.
There is so much wrong with this project that even a blind and deaf man can read and hear that this game is never going to be finished/released. I'd suggest you start repeating the words "Derek Smart was right" on a regular basis. I don't know how to define regular for you, but I'd do it enough to be able to say them without problems in a couple of months :D
A big problem here and the Refunds Reddit is those at odds against CIG are also at odds with themselves. I don't think anyone here TRULY wants SC to fail. Even DS often states that he would love to play SC as it was pitched because, after all, we are all old space sim fans so why wouldn't he want to play an impressive and fun game?
DS is the only person I can think of that has any right to a personal grievance with CR and CIG since they have personally and publicly attacked him and his projects, as well as cultivated the anti-DS cult which is beyond bazaar. The rest of us are very much at odds, sadly if CIG does tank and SC fails as a fun game with lots of repayable content everyone loses. The CIG staff who are innocent in the matter lose their job, we lose the game we dreamed for, we all lose.
The laser-focus on whether or not something is "possible" smacks of desperation.
(https://pics.onsizzle.com/so-youre-saying-theres-a-chance-memes-com-16169791.png)
Lots of things are possible - there are people out there breaking the boundaries of what we think possible every day. Chris Roberts is the opposite of those people.
As promised, it was a seamless transition: taking off from the space station, flying into space, making a quantum jump to the Daymar, entering the atmosphere, and landing.
Well there's a question answered in his reply tweets. Nice one Derek. Seamless transitions from space to moon, confirmed.
That's pretty special in cryengine looking as good as it does.
As you say, it really doesn't matter exactly how they do it as long as there's no loading screens or break from playing then they've managed to complete an important part of the puzzle.
The performance issue is interesting. Client streaming won't improve the server performance of course but aren't they using procedural tech for it? They can't keep numerous moons and their respective landing zones in memory, poor performance or otheriwse, can they? Far too big aren't they? So streaming a single procedurally generated, huge asset is possible as other games do it.
The big question is if they will release anything before the next big show-off. Since they never can live up to the expectations of the hard core idiots, any release would be yet another disappointment and thus killing a lot of income. Better to feed false news, grab all the anticipation money and then await the shitstorm. Makes you wonder if they dare to release anything between August and October for that matter.
The big question is if they will release anything before the next big show-off. Since they never can live up to the expectations of the hard core idiots, any release would be yet another disappointment and thus killing a lot of income. Better to feed false news, grab all the anticipation money and then await the shitstorm. Makes you wonder if they dare to release anything between August and October for that matter.
Well they have another month to go before they have to deal with that. From what I am hearing, they're not going to be able to resolve the performance issues before then. So it remains to be seen if they will just dump it so they say they released it, then continue working on it. There are serious bugs in 2.6.3 (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/community/issue-council/star-citizen-alpha/prioritize?sort=most_vote) which have been there for years. So this update is just going to add more to that pile.
I don't care what anyone says, 3.0, while a major milestone like the others before it, isn't going to mean anything in the end, let alone rescue the game from its downward spiral. The entire project is irrecoverable because they've crossed the point where they could have saved it. That was back in 2015, following 2.0.
Surely they realize this and will start doing whatever they can to salvage the project, even if it does mean reducing the majority of features promised at release which they seem to have started to do with the reduced solar systems. SQ42 as a single player game would generate at least a decent chunk of revenue if it is a fun game to play in its own. Is CR planning and preparing for a rough future, or just throwing the dice with the intent of either making some miracle breakthrough or willingly run the company into the ground?
Item 2.0 Multi Function Displays
Rover and Dragonfly in Ships
StarMap App
Behring P4-AR - Legacy weapon re-work
Mission Givers - ETA is 28th July (was 14th July)
Reason: The estimate for the mission givers has been pushed back due to some animations requiring rework and newly discovered code dependencies.
Delamar / Levski - ETA is 28th July (was 14th July)
Reason: There is some remaining shop kiosk implementation to be completed for 3.0.0 resulting in a slight delay.
Inventory System Support - ETA is 27th July (was 20th July)
Reason: None given
Entity Owner Manager - ETA is 28th July (was 20th July)
Reason: None Given
Cargo Manifest App - ETA is 27th July (was 20th July)
Reason: Delayed due to complications while hooking up the search bar and transfer popup, but the feature is now code complete and requires some final hookup to Flash.[/b]
Ship Selector App & Insurance Claim - ETA is 3rd August (was 19th July)
Reason: Code is complete and now requires final hookup, but this has been delayed due to the team supporting hint system for designers. Also, the completion date for this feature has moved out in order to support the item 2.0 Multi-Function Displays and Inventory.[/b]
Inventory System - ETA is 27th July (was 20th July)
Reason: Also delayed due to complications while hooking up the search bar and transfer popup, but the feature is now code complete and requires some final hookup to Flash.[/b]
Mission System - ETA is 24th July
Reason: None given
Render to Texture - ETA is 10th August
Reason: None Given
RSI Aurora - ETA is 4th August (was 21st July)
Reason: Implementing the “springy” landing gear on ships, and bug fixing on other ships have delayed the delivery of the Aurora.
- MISSION GIVERS
- DELAMAR / LEVSKI (STRETCH GOAL)
- INVENTORY SYSTEM SUPPORT
- ENTITY UPDATE COMPONENT SCHEDULER
- ENTITY OWNER MANAGER
- CHARACTER CUSTOMIZATION
- CARGO MANIFEST APP
- VEHICLE CUSTOMIZER APP
- SHIP SELECTOR APP & INSURANCE CLAIM
- INVENTORY SYSTEM
- COMMS SYSTEM UI
- MISSION SYSTEM
- RENDER TO TEXTURE
- VOLUMETRIC FOG (still scheduled to be completed on June 9th)
- APOCALYPSE ARMS SCOURGE RAIL GUN (still scheduled to be completed on June 9th)
- RSI AURORA
- GEMINI L86 PISTOL
- Item 2.0 Ship Conversion – Part 2
- Insurance
- Doors and Airlocks
- Cargo
- Kiosk Support
- Repair
- Hint System
- Personal Manager App
- Mission Manager App
- Physics Serialization
- Drake Dragonfly
- RSI Constellation Aquilla
- Misc Prospector
[...] Now CR has given himself a big salary and he added some family and friends too. How much of that behaviour (money) can he be held accountable for if this collapses? Overhere, as a manager you can be held legally accountable for mismanagement. How's that in the US of A?Held accountable by whom? Private refunds? With the net of corporations it will be almost impossible to held anybody accountable.
[...] If CIG collapses, a legal investigation of some sort will be started I think. [...]Why?
They're not that clever.You are underestimating people with money.
You can be personally responsible overhere, if you have a so called one-man business (or 2-man partnership). You are responsible for the business then even with your house, personal belongings etc. etc.None of which applies to CIG's current type of incorporation, as you are surely aware.
The other thing is that as a manager, you will be tested to see if you have conducted yourself in a proper business way. In the case of CIG, having all that backers money but spending it on a abnormal salary for yourselfI doubt that any notion that CR's salary, and even the bonuses, being "abnormal" would hold up without any challenge in court. Define "abnormal"… in relation to which "norm"? If you compare his salary (whatever the amount) with that of peers in the industry (e.g. entrepreneurs and owners of certain other software companies), I'm sure you would find lots of executives who pay themselves less, and some superstars of the business who earn significantly more – like, say, in the world of fund managers, musicians and lawyers. Prosecutors would choose the first peer group as reference, CR will no doubt argue that he belongs to the latter (and that his genius work merits no less than a salary comparable with Bill Gates or the Rolling Stones), and the outcome of the ensuing argument would be anyone's guess IMO.
…
Would this apply to CIG, one could argue that the top-salaries where way above normal and the abnormal part should therefore be paid back to CIG.
buying stuff that has nothing to do with the business (say, CR bought a yacht in Monaco) and that sort of thing will make you accountable for the bankruptcy.Unless his salary and bonus payments are indeed determined to be inappropriate (see above), whatever he does with his personal earnings is his own business and has nothing to do with company affairs.
In short, spending all the money and then claiming "sorry, I'm apparently a bad businessman with no talent for the trade" doesn't fly here.I'm not so sure. In hindsight, we all know better. Therefore, the litmus test applied in many jurisdictions focuses on whether the business decision was plausible at the time it was made, not whether it makes sense from a future point of view. It will be interesting to see what the court thinks about stuff like bank loans, forex transactions, money movement between shell companies and the setting up of such etc., but I don't see CR's spending personal funds on vacations in Monaco or wherever being relevant in this context as long as he has not been found guilty of siphoning said funds out of the company by illegal means.
That's not what I mean. You can be personally responsible overhere, if you have a so called one-man business (or 2-man partnership). You are responsible for the business then even with your house, personal belongings etc. etc.
But what I meant is that if your company (the corporate kind) goes bankrupt, the bankruptcy has to be handled by a court appointed lawyer and they have to investigate if the bankruptcy wasn't a fraud. So moving 1 mil. from the company to your private account and then filing for bankruptcy won't work. That 1 mil. will go back into the company. The other thing is that as a manager, you will be tested to see if you have conducted yourself in a proper business way. In the case of CIG, having all that backers money but spending it on a abnormal salary for yourself, buying stuff that has nothing to do with the business (say, CR bought a yacht in Monaco) and that sort of thing will make you accountable for the bankruptcy. In short, spending all the money and then claiming "sorry, I'm apparently a bad businessman with no talent for the trade" doesn't fly here.
Would this apply to CIG, one could argue that the top-salaries where way above normal and the abnormal part should therefore be paid back to CIG. If CR doesn't have that money anymore, he can sell all his assets and if that still isn't enough, the remaining debt will remain open to be paid later. So living a luxury live now on the backers money and then filing for bankruptcy because the funds dried up, no way he could pull that off.
That's not what I mean. You can be personally responsible overhere, if you have a so called one-man business (or 2-man partnership). You are responsible for the business then even with your house, personal belongings etc. etc.
But what I meant is that if your company (the corporate kind) goes bankrupt, the bankruptcy has to be handled by a court appointed lawyer and they have to investigate if the bankruptcy wasn't a fraud. So moving 1 mil. from the company to your private account and then filing for bankruptcy won't work. That 1 mil. will go back into the company. The other thing is that as a manager, you will be tested to see if you have conducted yourself in a proper business way. In the case of CIG, having all that backers money but spending it on a abnormal salary for yourself, buying stuff that has nothing to do with the business (say, CR bought a yacht in Monaco) and that sort of thing will make you accountable for the bankruptcy. In short, spending all the money and then claiming "sorry, I'm apparently a bad businessman with no talent for the trade" doesn't fly here.
Would this apply to CIG, one could argue that the top-salaries where way above normal and the abnormal part should therefore be paid back to CIG. If CR doesn't have that money anymore, he can sell all his assets and if that still isn't enough, the remaining debt will remain open to be paid later. So living a luxury live now on the backers money and then filing for bankruptcy because the funds dried up, no way he could pull that off.
Correct. And that's where things like "piercing the corporate veil" to get to the individuals personally, comes into play.
As I've said before, I don't envision ANY scenario whereby this tanks and they get away with it. It's too big, too notorious, and there is a LOT at stake.
Once investigators (private, State, Fed) get involved, all they have to do is follow the money. That's ALWAYS where things tend to fall apart quickly.
Look at the recent Fyre festival fiasco. That one didn't even take in half of what Star Citizen has, and barely a month after it collapsed, the Feds were involved, and the CEO arrested for fraud and a bunch of other things.
You've been mentioning feds and government buildings for quite a long time now, as long as you've spouted their having no money left, have we passed the two year anniversary by now? How much longer can they continue under this intense federal investigation and having no money do you think?
How can they manage to run a company burning through 'x' million dollars a month with no money left for two years?
Your assertions are non sensical. Proven via time.
You've been mentioning feds and government buildings for quite a long time now, as long as you've spouted their having no money left, have we passed the two year anniversary by now? How much longer can they continue under this intense federal investigation and having no money do you think?
How can they manage to run a company burning through 'x' million dollars a month with no money left for two years?
Your assertions are non sensical. Proven via time.
You realize they have just leveraged all of their asserts on a relatively small loan? Hardly the actions of a company flush with cash. They have unlimited troughs of cash you'd like us to believe - so why take out loans secured against everything they have?
It's been established time and time again; through warbonds, loans, non-stop ship sales and failure to meet any large deadline that CIG are cash-starved and have no way to survive their next 10 years (10 years is absolute minimum they will need) of development. It's clear, it's been established and right now you're operating on a trash-tier shill model to even argue against any of it.
I'm sensing a pattern. One of made up scaremongering.
How many more times will Derek claim they're out of money before you realise he doesn't have a damn clue how much money they have? He's been doing it for years. They're still going. Inferring your own reasons for business practices just shows your confirmation bias.
You've been mentioning feds and government buildings for quite a long time now, as long as you've spouted their having no money left, have we passed the two year anniversary by now? How much longer can they continue under this intense federal investigation and having no money do you think?
How can they manage to run a company burning through 'x' million dollars a month with no money left for two years?
Your assertions are non sensical. Proven via time.
You realize they have just leveraged all of their asserts on a relatively small loan? Hardly the actions of a company flush with cash. They have unlimited troughs of cash you'd like us to believe - so why take out loans secured against everything they have?
It's been established time and time again; through warbonds, loans, non-stop ship sales and failure to meet any large deadline that CIG are cash-starved and have no way to survive their next 10 years (10 years is absolute minimum they will need) of development. It's clear, it's been established and right now you're operating on a trash-tier shill model to even argue against any of it.
They used the company assets to leverage the best possible interest rate, in fact that was how and why it makes sense to do it. They got a fraction above Bank of England base rates so the lender makes money and CIG get a net save. It's not rocket science. The larger and safer the collateral, the lower the rate the bank charges, less risk of not getting their money back. It's the same reason why those with a poor credit rating get bad interest rates on lending. It's more risky.
Those things you mentioned prove no such thing. Any company needs cash flow for reasons other than being about to collapse. Getting contracts for renting premises, for example, is impossible without demonstrable income streams.
I remember when it was 'guaranteed' CIG wouldn't last 2 to 3 months and that was well over 18 months ago. It was also claimed there wouldn't be any more citizencons after last year but there's one coming up quite soon. It's recently been claimed this will be their last Gamescom. I'm sensing a pattern. One of made up scaremongering.
How many more times will Derek claim they're out of money before you realise he doesn't have a damn clue how much money they have? He's been doing it for years. They're still going. Inferring your own reasons for business practices just shows your confirmation bias.
That's not what I mean. You can be personally responsible overhere, if you have a so called one-man business (or 2-man partnership). You are responsible for the business then even with your house, personal belongings etc. etc.
But what I meant is that if your company (the corporate kind) goes bankrupt, the bankruptcy has to be handled by a court appointed lawyer and they have to investigate if the bankruptcy wasn't a fraud. So moving 1 mil. from the company to your private account and then filing for bankruptcy won't work. That 1 mil. will go back into the company. The other thing is that as a manager, you will be tested to see if you have conducted yourself in a proper business way. In the case of CIG, having all that backers money but spending it on a abnormal salary for yourself, buying stuff that has nothing to do with the business (say, CR bought a yacht in Monaco) and that sort of thing will make you accountable for the bankruptcy. In short, spending all the money and then claiming "sorry, I'm apparently a bad businessman with no talent for the trade" doesn't fly here.
Would this apply to CIG, one could argue that the top-salaries where way above normal and the abnormal part should therefore be paid back to CIG. If CR doesn't have that money anymore, he can sell all his assets and if that still isn't enough, the remaining debt will remain open to be paid later. So living a luxury live now on the backers money and then filing for bankruptcy because the funds dried up, no way he could pull that off.
Correct. And that's where things like "piercing the corporate veil" to get to the individuals personally, comes into play.
As I've said before, I don't envision ANY scenario whereby this tanks and they get away with it. It's too big, too notorious, and there is a LOT at stake.
Once investigators (private, State, Fed) get involved, all they have to do is follow the money. That's ALWAYS where things tend to fall apart quickly.
Look at the recent Fyre festival fiasco. That one didn't even take in half of what Star Citizen has, and barely a month after it collapsed, the Feds were involved, and the CEO arrested for fraud and a bunch of other things.
Literally putting people's lives at stake whilst trapping them on an island with no food, water or other basic amenities isn't comparable with failing to create a video game to the extent you hoped. Come on now.
I also find your assumption of inevitability as disingenuous. There isn't a case to answer unless development stops. This hasn't and isn't going to happen, as they will cut staff, should the need actually arise, and get something out of the door.
You've been mentioning feds and government buildings for quite a long time now, as long as you've spouted their having no money left, have we passed the two year anniversary by now? How much longer can they continue under this intense federal investigation and having no money do you think?
How can they manage to run a company burning through 'x' million dollars a month with no money left for two years?
Your assertions are non sensical. Proven via time.
They used the company assets to leverage the best possible interest rate, in fact that was how and why it makes sense to do it.
They got a fraction above Bank of England base rates so the lender makes money and CIG get a net save.
The larger and safer the collateral, the lower the rate the bank charges, less risk of not getting their money back. It's the same reason why those with a poor credit rating get bad interest rates on lending. It's more risky.
Those things you mentioned prove no such thing. Any company needs cash flow for reasons other than being about to collapse. Getting contracts for renting premises, for example, is impossible without demonstrable income streams.
I remember when it was 'guaranteed' CIG wouldn't last 2 to 3 months and that was well over 18 months ago.
It was also claimed there wouldn't be any more citizencons after last year but there's one coming up quite soon. It's recently been claimed this will be their last Gamescom. I'm sensing a pattern. One of made up scaremongering.
How many more times will Derek claim they're out of money before you realise he doesn't have a damn clue how much money they have? He's been doing it for years. They're still going. Inferring your own reasons for business practices just shows your confirmation bias.
Ok, Derek's got a book to write which he can't publish if the game gets released and becomes a hit. But since that final release won't happen anytime soon (and I'm sure we all can agree on that), he'll either turn out to be right, or he'll have another decade or two of time to think about an alternative source of income until the game actually gets released. So I'm sure he's not too stressed out either.
What do you think about the analysis of OldSchoolCmdr ?
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/68neg4/potential_backer_with_questions/dh8ww71/
Good morning ETF!
We've entered the start of the Production Schedule's range for 3.0 Evocati testing. We won't start this week, and it's admittedly too early to know whether we'll be able to go next week. Most of you have been around long enough to know that's always a gametime decision anyway.
All the same, we have been working diligently on the inclusion/exclusion process since late last week to make sure the right files are in (and wrong files are kept out). This is a necessary process in building a new branch, and historically it has taken about three weeks once we've started this process to get a build to Evocati. Might be a bit longer considering the scope of 3.0, and we'll only find out as we go along.
There are quite a few blockers to remedy before we go to Evocati, such as completing UI, restoring readouts on many HUDs, crashes, etc. The good news is that many teams are in their final stretches of their feature tasks, with quite a few others already done, and we're in deep on bugfixing.
I'll make sure to start providing regular updates, but in the meantime, have a great weekend ETF!
Will "Soulcrusher" Leverett
Director of Player Relations
Avocado Enthusiast
QuoteMost of you have been around long enough to know that's always a gametime decision anyway.
The book contains the many failings, and accurately documents all the promises, deceits, lies, and even things that aren't public. The ONLY reason why I am not publishing it until the final curtain, is because even though it's an e-book (with a coffee table print option)Given the sheer amount of what has happened, I’ll have to go with the e-book. Unless the print option also includes the cast concrete coffee table to match :laugh:
They used the company assets to leverage the best possible interest rate, in fact that was how and why it makes sense to do it.
FALSE. And you have NO supporting evidence of that.QuoteThey got a fraction above Bank of England base rates so the lender makes money and CIG get a net save.
FALSE. And you have NO supporting evidence of that.QuoteThe larger and safer the collateral, the lower the rate the bank charges, less risk of not getting their money back. It's the same reason why those with a poor credit rating get bad interest rates on lending. It's more risky.
FALSE. And you have NO supporting evidence of that.QuoteThose things you mentioned prove no such thing. Any company needs cash flow for reasons other than being about to collapse. Getting contracts for renting premises, for example, is impossible without demonstrable income streams.
A company with a balance sheet that's a going concern, would NEVER need to leverage ALL of its assets in order to get a loan. A small loan at that.QuoteI remember when it was 'guaranteed' CIG wouldn't last 2 to 3 months and that was well over 18 months ago.
This again? Do you even know how "analysis" works? It's dependent on data at hand and conditions at time of analysis. Look it up.
And if you guys weren't still giving them money, do you even think they would be around today? That's precisely how Sunk Cost Fallacy works.QuoteIt was also claimed there wouldn't be any more citizencons after last year but there's one coming up quite soon. It's recently been claimed this will be their last Gamescom. I'm sensing a pattern. One of made up scaremongering.
See aboveQuoteHow many more times will Derek claim they're out of money before you realise he doesn't have a damn clue how much money they have? He's been doing it for years. They're still going. Inferring your own reasons for business practices just shows your confirmation bias.
Nobody has a "damn clue" how much money they have. Not even the backers who DO have a right to know.
Ortwin's forum post is evidence, you may not believe him but that's irrelevant to the fact it exists as evidence.
Where is the evidence that they indeed have collected over 150 mil. over the past years? The only figure made public is the counter on their website. Fact chance that one is correct.
Ortwin's forum post is evidence, you may not believe him but that's irrelevant to the fact it exists as evidence.
:lol: Seriously? Sorry, Ortwin’s post is not „evidence“; it’s merely a claim, an assertion. And calling the supposed existence of evidence a fact does not make the evidence itself a fact.
„Evidence“ would be Ortwin disclosing CIG's internal documents relating to the loan decision, such as the financial calculations which demonstrated possible savings by taking out a loan, as well as the actual loan and interest rate conditions offered by the banks they contacted for this matter. As long as we don’t get see hard facts like these, Ortwin’s word is worth nothing. Or, as the saying goes: „show, don’t tell“.
Ok, you've buttered your bread. Let's see which side ends up hitting the carpet.
Ok, you've buttered your bread. Let's see which side ends up hitting the carpet.
Ah wait and see - the undeniable forte of the Star Citizen backer. You can wait and see all you want but I don't need to wait and I've easily seen enough. I guess I'm just less naive than you idk but that's not your fault.
I'm sorry but it's not false and I do have evidence to support that.
"Generally, when a loan is secured by collateral, the risk of default by the borrower decreases. For example, a loan secured by a car typically has a lower interest rate than an unsecured loan, such as credit card debt. Also, the more valuable the collateral, the lower the risk."
Ortwin's forum post is evidence, you may not believe him but that's irrelevant to the fact it exists as evidence.
In respect to to your analysis of the project and your predictions of financial collapse I find it very strange that you failed to notice them getting 30+million dollars a year for the last few years in a row. That's some pretty damn poor analysis. Did you honestly think your tweet and blog storm would halt the funding in any appreciable way or did your 'analysis' fail to take into account historical levels of funding? Either way, embarrassing.
If you're not sure of your analysis then perhaps you shouldn't 'guarantee' things off of the back of them? You certainly sounded sure the collapse was imminent...2 years ago.
Backers are not entitled to know how much money they have left, that's a very strange thing to say. They are entitled to full financial disclosure should production of the game stop. This hasn't happened, so no financial disclosure.
Now I'm fully aware they've changed the ToS, as is perfectly normal,
Let us see how long they last, let us see if your current predictions are better than your previous, somewhat laughable, attempts. I can stick around a while. It's fun here.
Where is the evidence that they indeed have collected over 150 mil. over the past years? The only figure made public is the counter on their website. Fact chance that one is correct.
Where else have they got the money to fund four studios and 300+ employees? People are getting paid. Where do you think the money for that has come from?
So a publicly posted claim from the person who brokered the deal is somehow less believable than a totally unsupported proposition from a direct competitor
who has stated he's trying 'burn them all down'
before staging a 2 year hate and harassment campaign?
Where else have they got the money to fund four studios and 300+ employees? People are getting paid. Where do you think the money for that has come from?
Obviously from whatever it is they are making each month, combined with whatever loans we don't know about. If you think that they need less than $3M per month to fund this project, when in fact the UK alone is using almost $25M of their yearly revenue, you're insane.QuoteSo a publicly posted claim from the person who brokered the deal is somehow less believable than a totally unsupported proposition from a direct competitor
Yes. And?
My position doesn't have to be "supported". The FACT is that, in the absence of EVIDENCE to support his claims, said claims are no more credible than mine, or anyone else's who has been saying that the loan reeked of desperation, and is akin to a payday loan.Quotewho has stated he's trying 'burn them all down'
Actually, that's false. The "burn them down" is related to JPEGs of Shitizens who have been waging an Internet war of attrition against me. We even have a meme. Here, let me show it to you to jog your convenient memory.
(https://imgur.com/utGShoS.jpg)Quotebefore staging a 2 year hate and harassment campaign?
That's also patently false. As much as you guys would love to re-write history, you just can't. The sequence of events (http://www.dereksmart.org/2015/08/star-citizen-how-i-got-involved/) are backed up by actual FACTS, which are not open to interpretation, hyperbole, or confusion.
- In July 2015 I wrote a blog saying they had over-scoped the project, and doomed it to failure
- The media propagated the blog, much to the ire of CIG and it's Shitizen backers
- CIG closed my account & refunded it
- CIG issued a statement lying about why they did the above
- Shitizens embarked on a war of attrition by proxy obo of CIG
You see, that's how the words FACT and EVIDENCE come into play.
And YOU guys are the ones engaged in a "hate and harassment" campaign against people, especially me (you all have an entire sub-Reddit dedicated to harassing and attacking me), who are writing bad stuff about a fucking video game. Yet you're all completely shocked that the end result is that the Star Citizen community has the WORST rep thus far in gaming. And for those reasons, even those who have nothing invested in the project, would like nothing more than to see the project fail (it will, there is not debating this) so they can laugh at you guys.
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/889863127264894977
The guy questioned if they have the money they say they do. It's obvious they must be burning through a few million a month, you won't find me arguing that. It's obvious. But let's take your proposition that they have accumulated, what was it from your sources, 228 million in total, how many months does that give them?
If they haven't got that much but managed to invest well with their early, low overhead, HUGE profit, early couple of years, how many months is that? Can't know that one unfortunately.
About who's word I believe, well that's up to me.
I was not far off with my 'burn...' quote. But here is some evidence and a fact. https://archive.is/Co3Fz
I just read your first blog. Around half of it was you talking about your own games, with comparisons.
They refunded you for using their game to promote yours. Not using their platforms, it doesn't matter if you used the forum or whatever.
I don't appreciate you addressing me as some sort of group either, to be honest. I'm just a bloke. I'm not harrasing anyone. I'm not on twitter. Facebook is so my aging mother can see photos of her granddaughter and Star Citizen is just a video game.
I don't care if you were a one eyed Elf living in Ireland.
They can close your account for any reason they like. They don't even need a reason. You don't own a thing other than a license to use digital assets in a video game that remain the property of CIG at all times.
I thought you'd read the ToS/EULA.
They can close your account for any reason they like. They don't even need a reason. You don't own a thing other than a license to use digital assets in a video game that remain the property of CIG at all times.
I thought you'd read the ToS/EULA.
And who is disputing any of that? YOU are the one who brought up a reason that was nonsensical.
They probably didn't read their own ToS either? Otherwise, why did they feel the need to issue a press statement, giving a reason (a flimsy one at that) for refunding me?
The guy questioned if they have the money they say they do. It's obvious they must be burning through a few million a month, you won't find me arguing that. It's obvious. But let's take your proposition that they have accumulated, what was it from your sources, 228 million in total, how many months does that give them?
If they haven't got that much but managed to invest well with their early, low overhead, HUGE profit, early couple of years, how many months is that? Can't know that one unfortunately.
That's not how math works. Just because they've raised a lot of money, doesn't mean they have a lot of it left. The yearly financials for F42-UK are evidence of that.
And you don't know anything about investments or lack thereof. You're just injecting wishful thinking to make yourself feel good about it, and to justify your argument. The fact is that they're not big enough to have money to spare in investments. Heck, they don't even own any of the buildings the studios are in. Instead, they are paying high rent in their respective locations.QuoteAbout who's word I believe, well that's up to me.
Yeah, but nobody cares what you believe, you see. We all believe what we want to believe, and offer the opinions that we want.QuoteI was not far off with my 'burn...' quote. But here is some evidence and a fact. https://archive.is/Co3Fz
No, you are not even close because you were misinterpreting it to mean that it was directed at CIG, when clearly it wasn't. I even posted a meme that uses the same text. The image you posted is also clearly indicative of this. But yet, here you are.QuoteI just read your first blog. Around half of it was you talking about your own games, with comparisons.
Yes, and? Why would you ask a carpenter to write about brain surgery?QuoteThey refunded you for using their game to promote yours. Not using their platforms, it doesn't matter if you used the forum or whatever.
As hilarious and ludicrous as that sounds, you actually put that in writing.
What do you think would happen if each time someone posted a review of a product, the company went back and yanked their product from the customer? e.g. what do you think would happen if you bought a game on Steam, wrote a bad review, then the publisher invalidated your Steam key?
Why didn't Frontier cancel my account and refund my money? I did mention them in the same article as an example. Why didn't CryTek invalidate my CryEngine license (yes, like UE4, I have it - free, back before they even started distributing to the public) license for my writing about how it is inadequate for the game?
The notion that I can't write and use my own tech and products to explain my position as to WHY they couldn't possibly build that game - even LoD isn't even a competitor (shockingly, you missed that part) due to them being different games - is the most hilarious part of your argument. And that a company has every right to refund my money because I wrote a dissenting opinion, why using my own experiences to outline why I believe that I am right and that the project could NEVER be made a was pitched.QuoteI don't appreciate you addressing me as some sort of group either, to be honest. I'm just a bloke. I'm not harrasing anyone. I'm not on twitter. Facebook is so my aging mother can see photos of her granddaughter and Star Citizen is just a video game.
I don't care if you were a one eyed Elf living in Ireland. Your writings exhibit all the traits of the guys parked on Reddit writing the same nonsensical drivel. Plus, you were the first to start throwing around "hate" and "harassment" accusations. Now you want to cry foul? Cry me a river.
Stick to discussions without the attack innuendos, and you won't have to deal with comparisons. A lot of people don't post here. From the metrics, more people read, rather than post. So it's not like there's so much crap that's going to get lost in translation. People come here for meaningful discussions, regardless of opinions. But in your case (and some others, long since banned), the longer it goes on for, the more you are challenged, the more likely you are to go off the deep end. And you're already teetering.
A whole bunch of nattering between Serendipity and DSmart I'm not going to repost
A whole bunch of nattering between Serendipity and DSmart I'm not going to repost
I think you need to sit down for a minute and take a deep breath.
Allow me to quote something I wrote here, a while back: "If Derek Smart dropped dead tomorrow, it would not change the current status of CIG or SC."
There are ALWAYS going to be gadflies, and naysmiths, and critics. If you can't take a little bloody nose, go crawl back and hide under the bed. (/delancie)
The hard facts are that SC is behind schedule, it has taken in a ridiculous amount of money (comparable to an AAA title), and it has not been released. This is not up for question. It's indisputable.
And Chris Roberts's past is haunting him in this regard. People look back at Freelancer, and they wonder 'Was it just bad luck? Or does he know -- or worse, NOT know -- what he's doing?'.
And I liked Freelancer, mind you.
Why would I joke? Maybe I'm just different to you.
Why would I joke? Maybe I'm just different to you.
You demonstrate an enormous amount of faith in CIG’s ability to deliver the game. No matter which event or possible outcome is being discussed, you appear to be giving CIG the benefit of the doubt. There seems to be virtually nothing which makes you doubt that CIG has good intentions and the best interests of their backers at heart. You consistently seem to consider statements, promises and reasoning from CIG management to be unquestionable and beyond doubt.
I find this level of faith in a third party to which you have nothing more than a customer relation astounding. Normally, I’d expect such faith and devotion only from true religious believers and members of a church. But CIG and its promised game are not supposed to be a religion or a cult! Oh, wait…
There is absolute no proof that funding is still at a steady pace. The only way to say that is when you believe their statscounter on their website. A counter that could be (well, be honest, most definitely is) fake. There is no way they actually still are getting these kinds of funding every day. Impossible.
Why would I joke? Maybe I'm just different to you.
You demonstrate an enormous amount of faith in CIG’s ability to deliver the game. No matter which event or possible outcome is being discussed, you appear to be giving CIG the benefit of the doubt. There seems to be virtually nothing which makes you doubt that CIG has good intentions and the best interests of their backers at heart. You consistently seem to consider statements, promises and reasoning from CIG management to be unquestionable and beyond doubt.
I find this level of faith in a third party to which you have nothing more than a customer relation astounding. Normally, I’d expect such faith and devotion only from true religious believers and members of a church. But CIG and its promised game are not supposed to be a religion or a cult! Oh, wait…
I believe they'll deliver a game that I'll enjoy playing at some point in time. Probably two, but I don't have enough emotional attachment to become a cultist. I don't believe they're money laundering scumbags, deliberately lying with full knowledge of imminent collapse, nor do I think CR is the saviour of PC gaming and Star Citizen is undoubtedly going to be the greatest game of all time. I think there's a chance it'll be great and there's a chance it will never get released or be a disgraceful mess if it does.
Right now, considering funding is continuing at a decent pace, my belief they don't have current financial issues and that 3.0 dropping, in even a mildly impressive way, will see them spike up again, I'm coming down on the side of it ending up being a good gaming experience.
I'm not in a cult.
All they have to do is to disclose the reality of their situation: finances, development progress, road-map. Total transparency and it all disappears. Derek doesn't get to publish and they get the pleasure of rubbing his nose in it.
Do you know any of the history of MMORPGs ?
The hilarious elephant in the room here, is that CIG can make all the rumors and speculation disappear in an instant. They can pull the rug out from under Derek's feet and re-open the levels of funding that they previously enjoyed. It's really simple and it's all in their hands.
All they have to do is to disclose the reality of their situation: finances, development progress, road-map. Total transparency and it all disappears. Derek doesn't get to publish and they get the pleasure of rubbing his nose in it.
Why, I wonder, would they not do this? So simple.
That may be true for the US, but overhere corporate companies are required to publish their P&L statement every year.
And what more could they do? Well for a start, they could communicate honestly. You can't keep delaying every item on your to-do list but still maintain the same old enddate end of August. If I have 9 women I still can't deliver a baby next month.
They are waiting for Games Com end of August and until then they are feeding the hype and promising all kinds of stuff to keep everybody hyped and picking up their wallets. And shortly after Games Com, they everything falls apart, no updates, missed deadlines etc. But not too much because in October they have to pull the same stunt again for ShitizenCon. The period between Games Com and ShitizenCon will be crucial for CIG.
No, you are wrong here. For instance, n The Netherlands all corparate companies (Ltd, PLC or as they are called BV or NV) have to file their annual financial report with the Chamber of Commerce. If they're on the stock market doesn't matter. And those annual reports can be retrieved by everybody. It is my understanding that this applies to most Western countries, so that's why we now (finally) have the figures from the UK. Germany probably has the same rules.
Only the big ones on the stockmarket with shareholders will do a pressconference etc. but all corporate companies need to file their financial statements. Pressconferences are required as well if you have information that could have a major impact on your stockprice (like expected big losses, take-over bids etc.).
If CIG was an European company, all their financial and business details (within the legally required specifications of course) would have been available from the start (after the first year of course). And it porbably wouldn't have gotten out of hand as it has now.
And do you remember 3.0? Coming to you in all theaters december 19th. Of 2016!
Oh, where did I use profanity?
For sole proprietors, this obligation is not applicable means that you are a one-man company (like a freelancer, or modernly know as ZZP (Zelfstandig Zonder Personeel) meaning single without staff employed).
Just for the record, I can have a B.V. and be the sole proprietor (meaning, I own all the companies shares and all those shares are not on the stockmarket) and then I still have to deliver my annual financial statement. No, this has nothing to do with this CIG, but don't blame me for telling lies when you're simply dead wrong.
But I give up. There is just no reasoning with you.
Back on topic, Sandi posted an interesting GIF on her twitter with a multiplayer performance test. Low gravity jumping and all.
Looks nice. I'd imagine that's over LAN however.
https://twitter.com/sandigardiner/status/890297562678382592
10 people spotted. Still a long way to go before the first 'M' of MMO becomes a reality...
They have recently mentioned that what they're doing with the server meshes and what not has never been done before. Where it ends up will be interesting. Obviously not in game now but here's to hoping a decent amount of players can interact in time.
They've managed new things with Cryengine already so with the help of Amazon's technology who knows what will happen. I don't think Erin's hundreds of thousands of players will ever materialise but I don't think he'd say that if he didn't believe it. Maybe he meant hundreds or thousands. Maybe the new technology will break new ground. Here's to hoping.
Back on topic, Sandi posted an interesting GIF on her twitter with a multiplayer performance test. Low gravity jumping and all.
Looks nice. I'd imagine that's over LAN however.
https://twitter.com/sandigardiner/status/890297562678382592
10 people spotted. Still a long way to go before the first 'M' of MMO becomes a reality...
Yeah it's nice they're still reading my Tweets and posts when I make of fun of their 8 client MMO.
They have recently mentioned that what they're doing with the server meshes and what not has never been done before. Where it ends up will be interesting. Obviously not in game now but here's to hoping a decent amount of players can interact in time.
They've managed new things with Cryengine already so with the help of Amazon's technology who knows what will happen. I don't think Erin's hundreds of thousands of players will ever materialise but I don't think he'd say that if he didn't believe it. Maybe he meant hundreds or thousands. Maybe the new technology will break new ground. Here's to hoping.
"already ?"
lol.
Creating a cryengine map more than a few km in size is new. CIG have done that with 2.0. If there is any other cryengine game that has maps over 20km in size please let me know and I'll edit my post and thought process, cheers.
Creating a cryengine map more than a few km in size is new. CIG have done that with 2.0. If there is any other cryengine game that has maps over 20km in size please let me know and I'll edit my post and thought process, cheers.
That's an interesting angle, to talk about things CIG have done. I reckon it would be a short-lived discussion though. Thing is this; I could open a pizzeria and create the biggest sausage and cheese pizza - bigger than anyone else. If it was half-baked, tasted terrible and cost far than most other pizzas, would anyone really care?
Creating a cryengine map more than a few km in size is new. CIG have done that with 2.0. If there is any other cryengine game that has maps over 20km in size please let me know and I'll edit my post and thought process, cheers.
Creating a cryengine map more than a few km in size is new. CIG have done that with 2.0. If there is any other cryengine game that has maps over 20km in size please let me know and I'll edit my post and thought process, cheers.
Archeage. Open world MMO, released in 2013 with CryEngine 3.
Completed: 3
Delayed: 7
Remaining: 14 (was 17)
Needs bug-fixing: 14 (was 14)
Total In-progress: 28 (was 30)
Furthest ETA: TBD or Aug 16th (was Aug 10th)
The following lists and charts show our progress towards releasing 3.0.0, with all remaining major tasks listed.
Tasks are either feature complete, or have an ETA for completion.
Some tasks may require further QA, bug-fixing and iteration.
Tasks that delay beyond our target dates might cause the release of 3.0.0 to be delayed, or might be excluded from 3.0.0 if appropriate to maintain the release date target. 3.0.0 work is separated into Subsections: Persistent Universe Content, FPS / Space Gameplay, Engineering, UI, AI, Graphics, Backend, Network, and Ships & Weapons.The 3.0.0 Procedural Planet update marks a major advance in the Star Citizen Persistent Universe.
This week, we entered the optimization, polish and bug fixing phase for the 3.0 feature set. As there have been so many features and content implemented, we’ve encountered some stability issues that we want to address before going to a wider test audience. The ongoing work on the new Patcher system (that will save you from having to completely re-download each build) and some new bugs with CopyBuild3 (our internal version of the patcher) have also slowed us down. Because of this we have pushed back the Evocati and subsequent date ranges to reflect the additional time needed to get Star Citizen Alpha 3.0 ready for prime time.
- DELAMAR / LEVSKI - Shop kiosk implementation – Code complete
- ENTITY UPDATE COMPONENT SCHEDULER - Planned work for 3.0.0 is complete. This feature will extend past 3.0.0 as the work is ongoing, and continual improvements will be made in the run up to 3.0.0 release.
- CARGO MANIFEST APP - Bug fixing to follow.
- MISSION GIVERS - ETA is 11th August (was 28th July)
Reason: some code dependencies are still present and animation rework is still in progress
- ENTITY OWNER MANAGER - ETA is 11th August (was 28th July)
Reason: LA Engineering has identified further tasks needed to support persistence and netcode.
- CHARACTER CUSTOMIZATION - ETA is TBD (was 25th July)
Reason: Players will now be able to customize their characters’ heads, hair, eye color, and skin color. The team has been supporting other features, so the date for this has slipped. Production is reassessing and will post a specific projection next week.
- VEHICLE CUSTOMIZER APP - ETA is 9th August (was 27th July)
Reason: Additional code support to fix issues with the Mission Manager, Hints, and the Ship Selector have delayed this feature slightly.
- COMMS SYSTEM UI - ETA is 16th August (was 25th July)
Reason: Delayed due to team being redirected to help resolve blockers on other issues.
- MISSION SYSTEM - ETA is 9th August (was 24th July)
- GEMINI L86 PISTOL - ETA is 2nd August (was 28th July)
Reason: The latest review of this weapon highlighted issues that need to be fixed before it is signed off as complete.
- MISSION GIVERS
- INVENTORY SYSTEM SUPPORT
- ENTITY OWNER MANAGER
- CHARACTER CUSTOMIZATION
- VEHICLE CUSTOMIZER APP
- SHIP SELECTOR APP & INSURANCE CLAIM
- INVENTORY SYSTEM
- COMMS SYSTEM UI
- MISSION SYSTEM
- RENDER TO TEXTURE
- VOLUMETRIC FOG (still scheduled to be completed on June 9th)
- APOCALYPSE ARMS SCOURGE RAIL GUN (still scheduled to be completed on June 9th)
- RSI AURORA
- GEMINI L86 PISTOL
- Item 2.0 Ship Conversion – Part 2
- Insurance
- Doors and Airlocks
- Cargo
- Cargo Manifest App
- Kiosk Support
- Repair
- Hint System
- Personal Manager App
- Mission Manager App
- Physics Serialization
- Drake Dragonfly
- RSI Constellation Aquilla
- Misc Prospector
The schedule's analysis is becoming harder and harder to do each week. As you probably know, the schedule only contains "features" tasks, leaving out everything around like bugfixing, release preparation, and general polishing. As tasks get completed and CIG moves to the final phases of preparation for the release, we have less and less information on what's going on, and what's causing delays.
We'll start this week with the Mission Givers, which are under an animation rework. Also, some code dependencies are missing. All that pushes them by 2 weeks.
Next is the inventory system gamecode engineering. The schedule hasn't been updated on that, so we don't know if it's completed or not.
The Entity Owner Manager, which we've learned a bit in this week's ATV (check out the persistence segment), is also being delayed by 2 weeks.
Next is UI. We start with inventory, which as for the gamecode part hasn't been updated. The Character Customisation has been update though, but all CIG says is that they don't have an ETA anymore as developers are supporting other tasks. We then have the Vehicle Customiser App, which is delayed by 2 weeks, and the Comms System UI, which is delayed by 3 weeks. Both delays are due to developers supporting other tasks.
In the AI department, the Mission System is still under work, with an additionnal 2 weeks required.
Finally, the L86 Pistol Rework is delayed by 5 days, as the quality review discovered some elements that needed improvements.
Creating a cryengine map more than a few km in size is new. CIG have done that with 2.0. If there is any other cryengine game that has maps over 20km in size please let me know and I'll edit my post and thought process, cheers.
Archeage. Open world MMO, released in 2013 with CryEngine 3.
If you'd found one hundreds of km across then maybe, but come on. 20 ish does not come close to millions. Behave.
Creating a cryengine map more than a few km in size is new. CIG have done that with 2.0. If there is any other cryengine game that has maps over 20km in size please let me know and I'll edit my post and thought process, cheers.
Archeage. Open world MMO, released in 2013 with CryEngine 3.
If you'd found one hundreds of km across then maybe, but come on. 20 ish does not come close to millions. Behave.
Creating a cryengine map more than a few km in size is new. CIG have done that with 2.0. If there is any other cryengine game that has maps over 20km in size please let me know and I'll edit my post and thought process, cheers.
Archeage. Open world MMO, released in 2013 with CryEngine 3.
If you'd found one hundreds of km across then maybe, but come on. 20 ish does not come close to millions. Behave.
Registered just to say perhaps a touchè wouldn't have gone amiss in your reply. Kathileys answer met your challenge beautifully.
CIG is right on schedule with 3.0 for not making Shitizencon too :D
They mastered "Ponzi Scheme" but clearly need summerschool for "Scheduling and Planning for Game Development".
So, nothing to show for at Games Com for the 3.0 release. How are they gonna explain that? Or just swipe it under the rug with a new demo clip?
Creating a cryengine map more than a few km in size is new. CIG have done that with 2.0. If there is any other cryengine game that has maps over 20km in size please let me know and I'll edit my post and thought process, cheers.
Archeage. Open world MMO, released in 2013 with CryEngine 3.
If you'd found one hundreds of km across then maybe, but come on. 20 ish does not come close to millions. Behave.
I just wanted to see this kind of response. That's all i wanted. Thank you :smuggo:
You're welcome. I stand by millions of km being new.
CIG is right on schedule with 3.0 for not making Shitizencon too :D
They mastered "Ponzi Scheme" but clearly need summerschool for "Scheduling and Planning for Game Development".
So, nothing to show for at Games Com for the 3.0 release. How are they gonna explain that? Or just swipe it under the rug with a new demo clip?
Ai, true enough. My bad for not researching before challenging. My point remains valid though. A cryengine map millions of km access is still new.
There will be plenty of new stuff to show off, including perhaps a Squadron demo missing from last year.
In what way does Ponzi apply? Which new investors are having their money given to which old investors?
The schedule's analysis is becoming harder and harder to do each week. As you probably know, the schedule only contains "features" tasks, leaving out everything around like bugfixing, release preparation, and general polishing. As tasks get completed and CIG moves to the final phases of preparation for the release, we have less and less information on what's going on, and what's causing delays.
We'll start this week with the Mission Givers, which are under an animation rework. Also, some code dependencies are missing. All that pushes them by 2 weeks.
Next is the inventory system gamecode engineering. The schedule hasn't been updated on that, so we don't know if it's completed or not.
The Entity Owner Manager, which we've learned a bit in this week's ATV (check out the persistence segment), is also being delayed by 2 weeks.
Next is UI. We start with inventory, which as for the gamecode part hasn't been updated. The Character Customisation has been update though, but all CIG says is that they don't have an ETA anymore as developers are supporting other tasks. We then have the Vehicle Customiser App, which is delayed by 2 weeks, and the Comms System UI, which is delayed by 3 weeks. Both delays are due to developers supporting other tasks.
In the AI department, the Mission System is still under work, with an additionnal 2 weeks required.
Finally, the L86 Pistol Rework is delayed by 5 days, as the quality review discovered some elements that needed improvements.
There seems to be an interesting pattern:
- Week A: delay critical tasks, add a few fluff tasks, do not delay overall launch prediction. Sales are usually held during these weeks.
- Week B: close a few fluff tasks to convey an image of progress, delay the overall launch prediction for two weeks
This can go on a very long time and keep backers happy, as we have now seen with already more than doubled time from 3.0 June prediction.
But people are starting to notice.
7 hours of cruising without any breaks in gameplay. It's not millions but it's 3 orders of magnitude over 20 which fits the 64 bit positional change. There's no reason it couldn't be done across the whole map. There is no selected end point. There is no break or seam. I've done it myself to a lesser extent access significantly large volumes of space. The entities aren't loaded all together but millions of miles of empty space exist as a single, traversable map. It's a fact. Go load up the game and try it for yourself. Why you try to argue something that is available in game hasn't been done, is beyond me. It's there. Go try it for yourself.
I've been following this thread for a while and thought I might chip in.
The point about the Map size is that CIG aren't doing anything with CryEngine which isn't already commonplace in many other game engines.
The makers of Kerbal Space Program did a good talk about how they've achieved huge maps in Unity: Skip to 4:20
Hope this helps !
Clearly they didn't know anything about game development.
7 hours of cruising without any breaks in gameplay. It's not millions but it's 3 orders of magnitude over 20 which fits the 64 bit positional change. There's no reason it couldn't be done across the whole map. There is no selected end point. There is no break or seam. I've done it myself to a lesser extent access significantly large volumes of space. The entities aren't loaded all together but millions of miles of empty space exist as a single, traversable map. It's a fact. Go load up the game and try it for yourself. Why you try to argue something that is available in game hasn't been done, is beyond me. It's there. Go try it for yourself.
Oh you're so cute. Again, please go and learn how scenes are generated, loaded, and updated. Then come back and lets have a chat.
ps: Your videos are not proof of any claim you've made. Instead, you're engaging in the usual deflection. We talk about one thing, you bring up something else, while ignoring the original thing.
There's no zones or loading or anything. Just a ship moving through tens of thousands of kilometres of 64 bit positional space.
QuoteThere's no zones or loading or anything. Just a ship moving through tens of thousands of kilometres of 64 bit positional space.
You talk about the map size in Star Citizen as though they've managed to do something no one else has ever achieved before. This plainly isn't true, Elite Dangerous (although I haven't played it) manages to pull off huge star systems, SpaceEngine (free download) allows you to visit planets in other Galaxies, and upcoming titles such as Duel Universe are just as ambitious.
Regarding 64 bit positioning. Again this is nothing new, nor is it especially hard to do - just change all the float values to double. Space Engineers have managed to pull it off http://blog.marekrosa.org/2014/12/space-engineers-super-large-worlds_17.html (http://blog.marekrosa.org/2014/12/space-engineers-super-large-worlds_17.html) (note - that was 2014). Although, using 64 bit positioning may explain why the performance is so poor and the physics is a so jittery in Star Citizen (same problems in Space Engineers).
As far as I can tell, Star Citizen isn't doing anything technically different to many other games. There is no new technology, it's just standard industry stuff but they refer to it using different terms to make it sound like something they've invented. eg Subsumption technology for the AI - which as far as I can tell is just a fancy term for a Behaviour Tree - which they still can't seem to make work - by all means correct me if I'm wrong on this.
The only thing Star Citizen does differently to other games is their constant drive for FIDELITY - creating a fluid physics simulation for drinks, creating a whole system to deal with picking up objects, rendering every little bolt and fixture in high detail. The reason why no other game does this is because it's a performance hog and detracts from the actual gameplay. In that regard, Star Citizen seems to be a giant art project rather than a game, but that's just my opinion!
The promise of SC is worth waiting for and seeing as I don't believe they're in financial trouble anytime soon I'm happy to wait for this beautiful art project to become a game worth playing.
QuoteThe promise of SC is worth waiting for and seeing as I don't believe they're in financial trouble anytime soon I'm happy to wait for this beautiful art project to become a game worth playing.
If they ever deliver it then it will be a very beautiful game to look at, but if it means having space dog fights at 20fps then that won't be fun. Exactly what gameplay are they actually delivering? If you look at their Gameplay production schedule for 3.0 its:
- PLAYER MANNED TURRETS
- PICK UP & CARRY
- Ship systems: Radar System, Light Control System, Fuel / Refuel, Power Supply / Pipes, Quantum Drive
- INSURANCE
- STAMINA
- DOORS & AIRLOCKS
- CARGO
- COMMODITIES
- KIOSK SUPPORT
- ATMOSPHERIC ENTRY SUPPORT
- PERSISTENT DAMAGE, AMMO AND MISSILES
- REPAIR
- INVENTORY SYSTEM SUPPORT
- ROVER AND DRAGONFLY IN SHIPS
- HINT SYSTEM
- Points of Interest
- new Mission System.
- Power Plants / Shield Generators / Coolers and the Heat & Power System
These are mostly just features not actual gameplay mechanics.
So you can haul cargo, dogfight a bit with pirates (but be careful because you won't get your ship back for a while if it's destroyed), do missions (?how many will be in 3.0?), loot some wrecks. Enough to keep you entertained for a few hours at most.
They seem so obsessed with creating a high fidelity universe that they've forgotten it's meant to be a game. It strikes me that they seem to be falling into the same trap as No Man's Sky who spent so much time creating a giant procedural universe that they forgot to add anything interesting to do when you actually played the game.
This is a good post, heart felt and seemingly honest.
This is a good post, heart felt and seemingly honest.
This is a good post, heart felt and seemingly honest.
LOL!! The sad part is that you're really serious. :laugh:
ps: Admitting to increasing the scope of a project, complete with excuses and zero accountability, isn't "seemingly honest" :bahgawd:
Meanwhile, over on Reddit... (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6qhhx6/production_schedule_and_30_by_will_soulcrusher/)
Who needs a game when you get to read good, heartfelt and seemingly honest posts.
This is a good post, heart felt and seemingly honest.
Production Schedule and 3.0 by Will "Soulcrusher" Leverett
Who needs a game when you get to read good, heartfelt and seemingly honest posts.Nobody needs a game.
This is a good post, heart felt and seemingly honest.
Production Schedule and 3.0 by Will "Soulcrusher" Leverett
Yeah, sure :D
Only thing that works by schedule are ship sales... :D
Who needs a game when you get to read good, heartfelt and seemingly honest posts.Nobody needs a game.
Yes, looking at v2.6.3 (current result after 5-6 years of dev) is clear that better is to wait forever, since game will be disappointment or average in best scenario at the end, if ever released..
It's not better to wait, everyone wants the game earlier but looking at a tiny slice of what is envisioned as a barometer for the final product is short sighted at best. Let's see what 3.0 and onwards brings. Perhaps a true alpha product over pre alpha or tech demo.But who will pay for it, who will pay the 400+ devs all the years to come
It's not better to wait, everyone wants the game earlier but looking at a tiny slice of what is envisioned as a barometer for the final product is short sighted at best. Let's see what 3.0 and onwards brings. Perhaps a true alpha product over pre alpha or tech demo.But who will pay for it, who will pay the 400+ devs all the years to come
Is it a crime for a company to sell what it produces? Is anyone forced into buying? Does Chris come round my house with a gun?
It's not better to wait, everyone wants the game earlier but looking at a tiny slice of what is envisioned as a barometer for the final product is short sighted at best. Let's see what 3.0 and onwards brings. Perhaps a true alpha product over pre alpha or tech demo.But who will pay for it, who will pay the 400+ devs all the years to come
Is it a crime for a company to sell what it produces? Is anyone forced into buying? Does Chris come round my house with a gun?
Its not a crime, but they definitely have very dishonest marketing practices like this:
– Week A: delay critical tasks, add a few fluff tasks, do not delay overall launch prediction. Sales are usually held during these weeks.
– Week B: close a few fluff tasks to convey an image of progress, delay the overall launch prediction for two weeks
So in the end they are exploiting people who are irresponsible with their money...and I personally don't like that...
What you're suggesting has no basis in fact. You're just parroting Derek's malicious agenda with no evidence that's intentional deceit. Read the post I pasted from Will Leverett. Read the caveats from the schedule itself.
– Week A: delay critical tasks, add a few fluff tasks, do not delay overall launch prediction. Sales are usually held during these weeks.
– Week B: close a few fluff tasks to convey an image of progress, delay the overall launch prediction for two weeks
What you're suggesting has no basis in fact. You're just parroting Derek's malicious agenda with no evidence that's intentional deceit.
Read the post I pasted from Will Leverett. Read the caveats from the schedule itself.
– Week A: delay critical tasks, add a few fluff tasks, do not delay overall launch prediction. Sales are usually held during these weeks.
– Week B: close a few fluff tasks to convey an image of progress, delay the overall launch prediction for two weeks
What you're suggesting has no basis in fact. You're just parroting Derek's malicious agenda with no evidence that's intentional deceit.
Read the post I pasted from Will Leverett. Read the caveats from the schedule itself.
At this point their "schedule" are pointless, it exists only to calm down backers to show some ongoing "progress"...
In general they have huge management issues starting from top - CR is already known for NOT delivering in time and on budget (Freelancer..)..so here is high change that history will repeat itself...
1) Pre-Alfa already shows some strange attempts to reinvent the Wheel - head bobbing lol that all the time "jumping" radar...
2) Some ships with bad cockpit views...I guess they are not designed for humans to fly...
3) overcomplicated ships designs for "MMO" (where you need to keep things simple to have descent performance) that game engine can not handle even in offline mode...because they are using engine that was designed for single player FPS :D
so best possible outcome - average game with strange design decisions and performance issues..
Probably game will be forever in alfa until funding stops...
The engine has been significantly reworked and it performs absolutely fine in offline mode or when the server is fresh or empty. Netcode is holding it all back for now.
It's not better to wait, everyone wants the game earlier but looking at a tiny slice of what is envisioned as a barometer for the final product is short sighted at best. Let's see what 3.0 and onwards brings. Perhaps a true alpha product over pre alpha or tech demo.But who will pay for it, who will pay the 400+ devs all the years to come
Funding continues. 3.0 release, Gamescom, citizencon and Squadron 42 will provide many more millions. They'll be ok for a while yet.Is it a crime for a company to sell what it produces? Is anyone forced into buying? Does Chris come round my house with a gun?
Its not a crime, but they definitely have very dishonest marketing practices like this:
– Week A: delay critical tasks, add a few fluff tasks, do not delay overall launch prediction. Sales are usually held during these weeks.
– Week B: close a few fluff tasks to convey an image of progress, delay the overall launch prediction for two weeks
So in the end they are exploiting people who are irresponsible with their money...and I personally don't like that...
What you're suggesting has no basis in fact. You're just parroting Derek's malicious agenda with no evidence that's intentional deceit. Read the post I pasted from Will Leverett. Read the caveats from the schedule itself.
Do you really think backers pre purchase based on estimated completion dates of individual components?
"Oh look, they've nearly completed volumetric fog, imma gonna buy a freelancer now" said no-one, ever.
Its not a crime, but they definitely have very dishonest marketing practices like this:
– Week A: delay critical tasks, add a few fluff tasks, do not delay overall launch prediction. Sales are usually held during these weeks.
– Week B: close a few fluff tasks to convey an image of progress, delay the overall launch prediction for two weeks
It all doesn't matter anymore now, the game is almost over.
Chris has stated that if funding went dry this day, they'd still have enough money to finish the game SQ42 and that the revenues generated by SQ42 would enable them to complete the rest of SC. So, in building the games, money is no issue. However, the fact that they haven't build anything regarding SQ42, or are still failing at delivering something worth playable at all might, but let's not look to deep into that.
Let's assume that CIG has money issues. Recent events are a strong indication of that. The ungoing sales for cash only, the loan in the UK et cetera are clear signs of that. They spend most of the money they received in the past years on all their studios, the staff etc. yet have little finished product to show for and the new income stream isn't enough to cover the monthly expenses. So, there comes a point when the costs are higher than the money left. If you know that's coming, the best things to do are:
1. increasing the income
2. cutting down expenses
Since 1. is clearly getting exhausted, mainly because of the fact they still can't produce a decent Alpha build and keep on feeding the backers lots of BS, only 2. remains. However, telling the community that despite the fact that there still isn't a game after all those years and money spend, expenses have to be cut down by closing offices - therefore also reducing the people actually working on the game - is not a real option. It would be regarded as proof that the money is gone. After 155m having to admit to the backers that there is not enough money left to continue building on the old scale would be killing. The only way to avoid that, other than releasing a working game as promised (or full financial disclosure), is to act as if nothing is wrong. Meaning burning through the remaining money at the same speed.
So, what to do? At Gamescom 2016 Chris stated that 3.0 was nearly there. Now, a year later, 3.0 is still not there. And they are defending that by saying they almost had a working small 3.0 but decided to skip that and go for a big 3.0 with lost of extra features et cetera. Unfortunately, backers can easily point out that most if not all off those extra's where originally intented for the small 3.0 or are now even less than for the original small 3.0 release. The number of ignorant backers is getting lower, more and more are mainly fed up with being lied to. It doesn't mean they are giving up on SC yet, but the will to put in extra money (again) is drying up. Failing to be honest is getting a bigger problem for CIG than failing to deliver 3.0.
Now Gamescom 2017 is coming in three weeks. There is no 3.0 released yet, not even to the inner circle of Avocado's. Most likely reason, there isn't a 3.0 ready to be delivered. So again, a choice. Going to Gamescon without a 3.0 release. Chris would have to be a great talker to justify that after his statement from 2016. He'll probably try to deflect that with a lot of handwaving, big dreams and futuretelling and by showing beautiful R&D videoclips of things to come. Possibly with huge sandworms. They might even have a totally pre-loaded and scipted 3.0 gamerun availble for a "independent" backer to "play". Only this time, the backers know what's coming. Been there last year, seen that last year. Yawn... So, it might spike the hype a little again, but it won't be the major revenue boost they hope for. Of course, according to their funding tracker, it will be a huge success.
The other option is putting the not-ready 3.0 out there with the Avocado's. Where it will be a major disappointment and that will leak. The frustration of waiting over a year for something that even then doesn't deliver will get the most hardcore backer over. In a way, the overhyping and overanticipating by the backers is now becoming an extra burden for CIG. There is no way to live up to those expectations.
Best scenario: succesfully feeding the hype (again) at Gamescom with lots of clips etc. to generate money. Releasing 3.0 quickly right after and hoping that a better performing 3.0x can be made available before Shitizencon in October. There another run of big stories and videoclips with the statement, see, we did release 3.0 so we're still on the slow but right track. So keep giving us money so we can complete the BDSSE.
The remaining number of totally ignorant backers will determine how long CIG can continue the current operation. My guess it won't be long now. Regardless how much everybody might want SC to succeed, it's just not going to happen.
And no, Serendipity, you don't have to rebuttal my post with arguments, quotes, statements, videolinks and what not, to show that you think there is nothing wrong with the (financial) situation of CIG, that there might or might not be a game, that delays are to be expected when building something completely new and/or of this magnitude, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. We've been there, we've done that. To those here on this forum, it's obvious that Star Citizen is a disaster and that it will collapse shortly. I'll be the second (after Derek) to admit that's he was wrong if we're still all here in a couple of years predicting CIG will fall over shortly. But that's no more reality than Star Citizen ever being released.
The engine has been significantly reworked and it performs absolutely fine in offline mode or when the server is fresh or empty. Netcode is holding it all back for now.
That’s the third time you’ve posted the same link to the same poll, disregarding points raised that the poll data doesn’t show any consensus or agreement in any of the options, since not even a simple majority agrees on any one option despite each participant being allowed to select 3 options. Members of the active SC community were given 3 votes each and still failed to put any of the options above 40% support, which suggests that there is no majority support from the community for any of the expansion options.
If anything, giving people 3 choices each instead of 1 should have made it easier for any one option to hit 50%, but that still didn’t happen. All this shows is that CIG polled the community and then promptly disregarded the results, opting to proceed with their own plan instead, and certainly doesn’t support your assertion that the changes were voted and agreed upon by the community.
I'll be the second (after Derek) to admit that's he was wrong if we're still all here in a couple of years predicting CIG will fall over shortly.
The engine has been significantly reworked and it performs absolutely fine in offline mode or when the server is fresh or empty. Netcode is holding it all back for now.
You DO realize that it's an online-only game, right?
Also, no, the performance isn't "absolutely fine". Geez man, you're not even trying anymore. If anything, even the most hardcore SC loyalists know that the game is an absolute performance hog.
Let's assume that CIG has money issues. Recent events are a strong indication of that. The ungoing sales for cash only, the loan in the UK et cetera are clear signs of that.
Hi Serendipity, so you think CIG are being completely honest with their backers?
Basically, yes I do. Errors have been made. Guesstimates have been poor. Things have changed but on the whole, they're just a game dev company trying to make a game.
Derek's been saying it for 2 years already. Let's see where we are in another 12 months.
The client can be hacked to work offline. It removes the server limitations and provides a smooth gaming experience.
Yes it's a resource hog but that never stopped Crysis shipping millions of copies.
Cleverly using collateral to get a loan to save money on exchange rates isn't a sign they're in financial trouble. Mass lay offs and stories of non payment of wages would be a sign of financial trouble.
If the loan indeed was a wise decision, CIG would have made a public statement, because, of course, it was a wise decision. So publically telling about it should boost the morale of both backers and investors. Why hide good news?
But, they didn't. They kept quiet. Until the news broke and they had to issue a statement about it. Not to boost morale, but to prevent people actually loosing morale because it wasn't a good deal, but a shitty one. A desperate move to keep afloat yet another month. Now, that's a good reason to not tell about it. As they tried.
I liked Serendipity's playing devil's advocate at first to balance out the echo chamber here, but there reaches a point where it goes from a good debate to talking to a wall. When both sides keep bringing up the same points its obviously devolved into wall speak. Why do you guys even bother with Serendipity anymore, and Serendipity why do you bother when you seem unwilling to consider any other view points currently?
I want to draw attention to this, because this is what our host has been bitching about; this bizarre contorting of reality that you usually get when you read Cthulhu Mythos tomes.QuoteThe client can be hacked to work offline. It removes the server limitations and provides a smooth gaming experience.
Jesus H. Christ on crutches, man! Did you have a partial lobotomy? Because, damn. This is an online only game. And you're talking about hacking offline - which means no other players, as well as a "smooth gaming experience" as a result of the hack?
Derek's been saying it for 2 years already. Let's see where we are in another 12 months.
This again?
Do we need to remind you that when analysts make predictions, it's based on info "on hand at the time"?
When I said that back in Oct 2015, that was before a bunch of whales stuck in Sunk Cost Falllacy, decided to keep giving them money, even as CIG continued to use deception and trickery to aid that effort. And it's only now some of you are feigning shock and surprise that it's precisely what they've been doing all this time.
Now 2.8 years late, and $90.5M over budget, please explain to me HOW they would still be operational at the end of Jan 2016, after having raised $107M (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tMAP0fg-AKScI3S3VjrDW3OaLO4zgBA1RSYoQOQoNSI/htmlview#).
So yes, in a way, I was right. This is evidenced by the fact that the project is late, is nowhere near completion, and has raised an additional $48M since end of Jan 2016. If backers had stopped giving them money, the project, for all intent and purposes, would most likely be dead by now.QuoteThe client can be hacked to work offline. It removes the server limitations and provides a smooth gaming experience.
Jesus H. Christ on crutches, man! Did you have a partial lobotomy? Because, damn. This is an online only game. And you're talking about hacking offline - which means no other players, as well as a "smooth gaming experience" as a result of the hack?QuoteYes it's a resource hog but that never stopped Crysis shipping millions of copies.
That's not what is making it raise money. Get a grip.QuoteCleverly using collateral to get a loan to save money on exchange rates isn't a sign they're in financial trouble. Mass lay offs and stories of non payment of wages would be a sign of financial trouble.
Except that's not what they did. And only complete morons believe the rubbish explanation that Ortwin, who has every reason to lie, as they have done many times in the past, gave. If it wasn't such a big deal, WHY did he feel the need to come out on a SUNDAY to address a furor that I apparently started when I tweeted and wrote about the loan?
If the loan indeed was a wise decision, CIG would have made a public statement, because, of course, it was a wise decision. So publically telling about it should boost the morale of both backers and investors. Why hide good news?
But, they didn't. They kept quiet. Until the news broke and they had to issue a statement about it. Not to boost morale, but to prevent people actually loosing morale because it wasn't a good deal, but a shitty one. A desperate move to keep afloat yet another month. Now, that's a good reason to not tell about it. As they tried.
I want to draw attention to this, because this is what our host has been bitching about; this bizarre contorting of reality that you usually get when you read Cthulhu Mythos tomes.QuoteThe client can be hacked to work offline. It removes the server limitations and provides a smooth gaming experience.
Jesus H. Christ on crutches, man! Did you have a partial lobotomy? Because, damn. This is an online only game. And you're talking about hacking offline - which means no other players, as well as a "smooth gaming experience" as a result of the hack?
Swap out SC for ANY online/MMO game name, and insert it in, and think about it.
'The World of Warcraft client provides a smooth gaming experience when you hack it to run offline!'
Jesus Christ, Serendipity, LOOK AT WHAT YOU JUST SAID. This is supposed to be an ONLINE game. That's like talking about how awesome it is to play Team Fortress 2 or PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds offline! (Yes, I know you can play TF2 offline to practice, and I bet PUBG works that way too; but that's not exactly playing the game, is it?)
I like to play chess with myself. For some reason, I always win :D
The thing that bothers me most however, is that I don't think Serendipity is playing devil's advocate here. If he is, I'd have to applaud him, but my best guess is that he really truly madly believes everything he says about CIG/SC. Those who truly do that, have their head so far up their own ...es that they can inspect their own tonsils from within.
Hi Serendipity, so you think CIG are being completely honest with their backers?
I believe they're honest in the sense that plans, scopes and timeframes change, often without warning or any clue to the necessities. I believe they do their best to build a game under intense scrutiny and vitriol. I believe lots try to find as many inconsistencies as possible with comments from a large company who's internal communication can be improved.
Basically, yes I do. Errors have been made. Guestimates have been poor. Things have changed but on the whole they're just a game dev company trying to make a game.
I like to play chess with myself. For some reason, I always win :D
The thing that bothers me most however, is that I don't think Serendipity is playing devil's advocate here. If he is, I'd have to applaud him, but my best guess is that he really truly madly believes everything he says about CIG/SC. Those who truly do that, have their head so far up their own ...es that they can inspect their own tonsils from within.
Hi Serendipity, so you think CIG are being completely honest with their backers?
I believe they're honest in the sense that plans, scopes and timeframes change, often without warning or any clue to the necessities. I believe they do their best to build a game under intense scrutiny and vitriol. I believe lots try to find as many inconsistencies as possible with comments from a large company who's internal communication can be improved.
Basically, yes I do. Errors have been made. Guestimates have been poor. Things have changed but on the whole they're just a game dev company trying to make a game.
Professionals don't make "errors" so often.
It is the very essence of being professional to know what you are doing MOST OF THE TIME !
And when you say that people have been funding the game on a regular basis and will (probably) continue to, why do you imagine there is such uproar when CIG announce a change to a ship/jpeg ?
If people are funding the game to the tune of hundreds and thousands of $ year upon year without an expectation of a product being delivered to a somewhat agreed spec, why would changes to ships matter so much to so many ?
I like to play chess with myself. For some reason, I always win :D
The thing that bothers me most however, is that I don't think Serendipity is playing devil's advocate here. If he is, I'd have to applaud him, but my best guess is that he really truly madly believes everything he says about CIG/SC. Those who truly do that, have their head so far up their own ...es that they can inspect their own tonsils from within.
Yeah, I agree. It's just so amazing. :yikes:
Do you still, honestly expect imminent financial collapse despite full knowledge of Gamescom, citizencon and 3.0 release funding spikes?
Do you still, honestly expect imminent financial collapse despite full knowledge of Gamescom, citizencon and 3.0 release funding spikes?
Personally I am very interested what sweet lies CR will tell us at Gamecon and Citcon this year to hype up backers and get their money, especially if v3.0 turns out to be missing a lot of promised features, deadlines (dec 2016 for v3.0 was promised last year :D) and will run <30fps...
And where is SQ42 in 2017...dead ?!
FPS will improve with better netcode being worked on so it might be performance poor although on the other hand Sandi's twitter post about the multi player test recently looked to be doing ok.
Squadron 42 isn't coming this year imho, not enough hype and promotion now for an end of year launch. Again, not the first studio to suffer delays and they won't be the last. They are building two games with never done before cryengine technology. I can give them a break. I'm in no rush.
Professionals don't make "errors" so often.Reminds me of something I heard once.
It is the very essence of being professional to know what you are doing MOST OF THE TIME !
The information available at the time was that CIG held end of year sales that raised millions. It had happened the last two years and was about to happen again. What analysis didn't spot this very simple and obvious fact? Analysis that was patently useless.
Your comment about being over budget are ridiculous when it's on record that they will use all money raised to make the game. Just because they stopped stretch goals at 65 million, doesn't mean that was the game's budget. The budget is set by the backers. The backers keep funding. The budget keeps increasing. It's quite simple. 'Late' could be argued the same.
Saying 'if backers stopped giving them money' is like saying if the Earth's atmosphere suddenly had no oxygen we'd all die. Well duh! Why would anyone think funding would instantly dry up after making 30+ million a year for a couple of years? That's shockingly bad analysis. So you say in a way you were right...whilst being completely wrong! By an order of magnitude almost so far. 3 months projected, currently not far off being 30. And you say I should get a grip?
Like I've said before, we'll have to wait and see. There is no other option. We wait and if they collapse before producing games, you were right. If they don't and we're still here discussing the game and company in 12 months, then I guess you were wrong.
Pretty much every game of the last 10 years has been delayed from the original projections. Is there not a single professional within the gaming industry? Derek's own LOD has a trailer saying 2012 without release even now. It's par for the course.
No answers for my questions? I'll ask again for ease. What kind of financial analysis missed the previous 2 years funding spikes and didn't factor them into projections? Is it the same analysis you're using to this day for your predictions? Do you still, honestly expect imminent financial collapse despite full knowledge of Gamescom, citizencon and 3.0 release funding spikes?
Bonus question: What was the event that is causing the extinction and where is this extinction if, as is becoming obvious, due to aforementioned upcoming funding spikes, they 'survive' into next year?
FPS will improve with better netcode being worked on so it might be performance poor although on the other hand Sandi's twitter post about the multi player test recently looked to be doing ok.
Squadron 42 isn't coming this year imho, not enough hype and promotion now for an end of year launch. Again, not the first studio to suffer delays and they won't be the last. They are building two games with never done before cryengine technology. I can give them a break. I'm in no rush.
Yeah, that Sandi twitter clears all up :D
how many years you are willing to wait 5, 10 or maybe 20 years ?!
Maybe I am too old school, but I prefer to check actual result and that is 2.6.3 today...that has:
1) Star marine - bad FPS game/tech demo compared to today AAA fps games - game mode that nobody asked for..
2) PU - with almost no gameplay not even one star system is finished...
3) and other "tech demo modes" AC and racing...
and all this after 5+ years dev time and 155m backer money + loans.....I say not a good result..
In the end - looks like after No Man Sky fiasco some people like always did not learn anything and still believe in hype and empty promises...
And that changes the analysis how exactly?
That's pure an utter rubbish, and I'm sure you know it.
The full scope as of Nov 2014, was $65M. That's the budget. Just like when he asked for $2M on Kickstarter.
To suggest that he needed more, but just asked for less, is as ridiculous, as it is insane.
By all accounts, at $65M which was the FULL AND COMPLETE BUDGET for the game, it's now $90.5M OVER BUDGET. And that's an indisputable fact.
The only thing left now is to see how long they last before they collapse because only zealots expects that there will ever be anything resembling a "game" coming from this train wreck.
Because CONSISTENTLY selling JPEGS in order to raise money was NOT a thing in Oct 2015. And as with all things related to analysis, could never have been factored into the premise.
That's a false equivalent.
Comparing an indie game to one with a triple-A budget and team to match, is a non-starter, and a flawed argument. Yet you guys keep doing it.
Saying that just because games can be delayed, so it's OK for Star Citizen to be delayed, is just you people making excuses. Delays are perfectly OK. However, in the case of Star Citizen, it's more about the lies and the over scope, than it is about the delays.
1) FPS was part of the original pitch. It's one of the reasons I backed. Getting out of your seat and shooting stuff. Best way to include it is to make a separate 'module' for testing. I see no problems here. Yes it's bare bones but stuff will be added in time.
2) 2.0 was about getting the large map working. 3.0+ is about adding game play.
3) Yes...and? Both good test beds for tweaking and balancing.
1) FPS was part of the original pitch. It's one of the reasons I backed. Getting out of your seat and shooting stuff. Best way to include it is to make a separate 'module' for testing. I see no problems here. Yes it's bare bones but stuff will be added in time.
2) 2.0 was about getting the large map working. 3.0+ is about adding game play.
3) Yes...and? Both good test beds for tweaking and balancing.
1) In PU you can do that already...then why we need SM again ?! How much backers money was wasted on this generic crap ?
2) test beds - thats all we have in dev year 5 ?! Are you serious ?!
"Evil publishers" release full games in 5 years, SC is only in Pre-alfa state after 5 years..
This is direct result of lack of any planning, feature creep, neverending refactoring and "polishing" (in the end everything is unpolished anyway :P), focusing on jpg sales...
Hello Serendipity1) FPS was part of the original pitch. It's one of the reasons I backed. Getting out of your seat and shooting stuff. Best way to include it is to make a separate 'module' for testing. I see no problems here. Yes it's bare bones but stuff will be added in time.
2) 2.0 was about getting the large map working. 3.0+ is about adding game play.
3) Yes...and? Both good test beds for tweaking and balancing.
1) In PU you can do that already...then why we need SM again ?! How much backers money was wasted on this generic crap ?
2) test beds - thats all we have in dev year 5 ?! Are you serious ?!
"Evil publishers" release full games in 5 years, SC is only in Pre-alfa state after 5 years..
This is direct result of lack of any planning, feature creep, neverending refactoring and "polishing" (in the end everything is unpolished anyway :P), focusing on jpg sales...
You can't think the devs would get as much data from occasional shots at Kareah as from Star Marine matches, that would be silly.
Year 5 after building a company and increasing the scope DRAMATICALLY due to increased funding.
The guys creating the sales aren't the ones building the game.
What they're building now is completely different to what was originally envisaged not because of a lack of planning but because they never expected to get as much funding as they got which gave them the opportunity to make more. Much more. Fully explorable palnetoids anyone?
Fully explorable palnetoids anyone?
You guaranteed they wouldn't last 90 days. Shortly after your utterly unfounded and ridiculous claim, CIG did what they'd done for the previous two years and held sales that earned them around 10 million in a couple of months. Even if they literally had nothing when you made the claim, the knowledge of upcoming sales should have been used to realise they'd probably survive a little longer than 3 months. Terrible, terrible analysis.
Are you suggesting that nothing has changed in the game since the last stretch goal? They haven't changed from research into PG planets to getting it done? This didn't increase the cost of making the game? No land bikes or vehicles have been added? No new ships? Did they all arrive for free? More money received getting used to build more content is exactly what an increase in budget means. They aren't pocketing the difference but using it to build more stuff. Now you're just being silly.
No no and no. 65 million was when they stopped doing stretch goals. They've always said that every penny received during development would go towards development. That's increasing the game's budget as more money becomes available. Even sillier.
QuoteBecause CONSISTENTLY selling JPEGS in order to raise money was NOT a thing in Oct 2015. And as with all things related to analysis, could never have been factored into the premise.Pure lie. Have a look here and notice very regular sales from around June 2014.
That's not what I'm doing. I'm comparing estimated release dates not the games themselves. Come on, try harder, this is too easy. You projected, 'join the fight 2012', I'm sure you don't need me to link your own video. It's 5 years+ past that. It doesn't matter what size studio or what type of game. Your projection was way off, there's was too. Other devs and companies also get it wrong all the time. How you fund development is totally immaterial to the fact your release projection was massively wrong.
Are you serious? You can't be. Delays are ok but for this one example they're not? Puh-leeease. Let's at least try and treat everyone via the same standards shall we?
Did you lie when you added 2012 to your video? Was that a deliberate attempt to make people buy your TAK stuff knowing full well it wasn't ready to release? Shall I take to twitter and call you a lying bastard and scam artist?
You can't get out of your seat in Elite and you can't compare NMS to either. That's a cartoon. So no, nobody has done what CIG are doing before in a single game and certainly not to the visual beauty.
"Evil publishers" release full games in 5 years, SC is only in Pre-alfa state after 5 years...
This is direct result of lack of any planning, feature creep, neverending refactoring and "polishing" (in the end everything is unpolished anyway :P), focusing on jpg sales...
You guaranteed they wouldn't last 90 days. Shortly after your utterly unfounded and ridiculous claim, CIG did what they'd done for the previous two years and held sales that earned them around 10 million in a couple of months. Even if they literally had nothing when you made the claim, the knowledge of upcoming sales should have been used to realise they'd probably survive a little longer than 3 months. Terrible, terrible analysis.
Guaranteed? Really. Go ahead, please show me that guarantee.
And you're still going around in circles. The project was already FULLY FUNDED since Nov 2014. My comment was in Oct 2015. They continued to use dubious means, which they continue to this very day, to keep raising money based on LIES and DECEPTIVE PRACTICES.
Your argument is that when an analyst downgrades a stock, the company should just stop doing business right away.No. My argument is there is, was and never will be a set budget for the game. The budget is set by how much funding they receive. This is on record as true. What you say is made up and stupid. Stopping the stretch goals at a certain point has no meaning on the game's budget. You're making things up again. It's looking even more desperate.
Are you suggesting that nothing has changed in the game since the last stretch goal? They haven't changed from research into PG planets to getting it done? This didn't increase the cost of making the game? No land bikes or vehicles have been added? No new ships? Did they all arrive for free? More money received getting used to build more content is exactly what an increase in budget means. They aren't pocketing the difference but using it to build more stuff. Now you're just being silly.
Nice deflection there. We're not talking about progress, we're talking about the fact that the game is 2.8 yrs late and $90.5M over budget. We don't care about progress or lack thereof during this period. They could put a man on the moon, and it won't change those facts.
You're the one being laughably silly because you're basically saying that anything above $65M isn't an increase in budget....because reasons.
What are you talking about? They consistently had sales from before Oct 2015. That's just a fact. Looking increasingly desperate with every counter claim fabrication right now.QuoteBecause CONSISTENTLY selling JPEGS in order to raise money was NOT a thing in Oct 2015. And as with all things related to analysis, could never have been factored into the premise.Pure lie. Have a look here and notice very regular sales from around June 2014.
Which part of "consistently" confused you? Not to mention the fact that, again, you're going in circles by ignoring the fact that had they not been doing it consistently (which even the funding chart shows), they won't have raised this much money after $65M. If they were making enough money selling subs, ships which are playable in the game, and game packages ($45 and $60), there would be no need to be selling "futures" in the form of JPEG concepts.
That's not what I'm doing. I'm comparing estimated release dates not the games themselves. Come on, try harder, this is too easy. You projected, 'join the fight 2012', I'm sure you don't need me to link your own video. It's 5 years+ past that. It doesn't matter what size studio or what type of game. Your projection was way off, there's was too. Other devs and companies also get it wrong all the time. How you fund development is totally immaterial to the fact your release projection was massively wrong.
Nice try. You're ignoring the context of the argument that YOU brought up. YOU compared LoD having a 2012 release date to Star Citizen being delayed. Even though you know NOTHING about the game's development, nor the fact that we switched engines etc. And in there, despite the fact that it's obvious that we don't have a release date bearing down on us, unlike Star Citizen, you still went ahead with the comparison anyway. Because reasons. Now you're trying to explain the nonsense away.
And no, my projection wasn't "way off"; and if you knew anything about the game's development, you would know these things because unlike CIG, I regularly write blog updates and notes explaining precisely what is going on, why, and how. I am not selling the game, so I have no incentive to obfuscate its development in order to keep backers off my back.
Mostly irrelevant again. Why doesn't concern me. 'Join the fight 2012'. You're a liar. By your own standards.Did you lie when you added 2012 to your video? Was that a deliberate attempt to make people buy your TAK stuff knowing full well it wasn't ready to release? Shall I take to twitter and call you a lying bastard and scam artist?
Oh nice try.
- LoD was announced Feb 1, 2011 (http://3000ad.com/2011/02/line-of-defense-announced/).
- LoD trailer was released March 1, 2012 (http://3000ad.com/2012/03/line-defense-official-trailer-pc-gamer-exclusive/) - exclusive to PC Gamer
- LoD was released on Steam Early Access Sept 16, 2014 (http://3000ad.com/2014/09/line-of-defense-early-access-release/) as a way to use SteamWorks backend (SteamWorks services used by LoD (http://lodgame.com/faqs/steam-services/))
- It was explained on the Steam and LoD game page, why we had to use Early Access (http://lodgame.com/faqs/what-is-early-access/). And anyone who wanted to get in on the ground floor and follow the game's development, could buy any tier they wanted (http://lodgame.com/store/).
- In April 2016, we completed our SteamWorks integration, then disabled the store page after Valve streamlined the process for having games built and tested with SteamWorks, without needing it to be live to the public. We were then officially CBT access only (http://lodgame.com/news/16-04-29-01/). Which, btw, is why games like Lawbreakers (http://store.steampowered.com/app/350280/LawBreakers/) are currently being tested and built exclusively for SteamWorks, while doing public pre-orders though gamers do NOT have access to the game. The only way to test the game, is via CBT keys given out by the devs. Even if you pre-ordered, you aren't entitled to a key to play the game before release.
And unlike CIG, which had to be FORCED to give refunds, anyone who bought LoD, can get a no-questions asked Steam refund based on Valve's own guideliness for released or Early Access games (http://store.steampowered.com/earlyaccessfaq).
BONUS: Unlike CIG which not only didn't tell backers it was going to switch engines, then LIED about it, though I don't have to, I've written several dev blogs (http://lodgame.com/blog/) about what is going (http://lodgame.com/17-05-31-state-of-play/) on with our game engine as it relates to our PC and console plans. And none of it is fluff, and we don't have backers to lie to in order to keep raising money. It's just simple, clear communication.
You guaranteed they wouldn't last 90 days. Shortly after your utterly unfounded and ridiculous claim, CIG did what they'd done for the previous two years and held sales that earned them around 10 million in a couple of months. Even if they literally had nothing when you made the claim, the knowledge of upcoming sales should have been used to realise they'd probably survive a little longer than 3 months. Terrible, terrible analysis.
Guaranteed? Really. Go ahead, please show me that guarantee.
(http://i.imgur.com/QVEnc9E.jpg)
Mostly irrelevant again. Why doesn't concern me. 'Join the fight 2012'. You're a liar. By your own standards.
Did you lie when you added 2012 to your video? Was that a deliberate attempt to make people buy your TAK stuff knowing full well it wasn't ready to release?
Mostly irrelevant again. Why doesn't concern me. 'Join the fight 2012'. You're a liar. By your own standards.
Since no specification has been made about the allocation of the extra money, one could argue that that all is extra money to be spend on other stuff. There is no way to tell how that money is spend, if at all.
When I heard CIG was shelling out for mocap and big name actors for VAs, I twitched. A lot.
So, he lost it. He started acting the big man who would show the world he could compete with the big companies. Opening multiple studios, going international, expanding his imperium. Because, I've laid down my vision, how hard can it be? As long as everybody does what I tell them to do, it'll turn out to be a huge success. Maybe a big company will buy RSI and then we'll be on our way to Hollywood.
The thing with the budget is how you look at it.
Chris said, if you give me 65m, this is what you'll get for that. So people starting to give and after some time 65m was given. So he asked for a budget of 65m to build XYZ in promises. He didn't keep most of those promises, but as long as CIG has not spend over 65m until today, Chris has a budget left. Unfortunately, we don't know how much money CIG has spend until today. However, did Chris deliver as promised? No. Is it likely that they have spend over 65m until today? Yes. Therefore, did Chris deliver as promised within budget? No.
Now, the thing is, even after reaching 65m, money kept coming in. That is extra money to be spend on the game in general. We said we'd do 2 moons, let's make it 4. Stuff like that. The thing is, since there is no specification how those extra millions are to be spend in newly defined targets, they also can be allocated to previous existing targets. If one assumes that the extra money also is allocated for the original goals, then Chris did not deliver for the 65m and everything extra received since.
Since no specification has been made about the allocation of the extra money, one could argue that that all is extra money to be spend on other stuff. There is no way to tell how that money is spend, if at all.
Did Chris go over budget? We don't know since no financial disclosure has been given. Did he deliver as promised? No. Is it likely that the orginal 65m has been spend totally and that for some time now, the additional money has been used to keep up running CIG? Yes. Does that imply that Chris now spend over 65m and has not yet delivered what was agreed upon that he would deliver for 65m? Yes. So, is he over budget then? Yes. Plain and simple. This is Derek's view.
The argument that additional money has been spend to do extra, not-specified things, that as a result hinder the completion of the original promises, does not change the fact that still this project is most likely over original budget and original promises made. Despite his thoughts, backers did not give Chris a carte blache to do whatever he wanted after 65m was reached. He could do that but he had to keep his original promises first. Nobody gave permission to go for changing the orginal promises. If he wanted to change the goalposts for the original targets, he should have asked. Bottomline now is that CIG still hasn't delivered as promised (fact) and can't deliver what was promised. Not at the 65m mark and not with an extra 90m (very good guess).
Is this speculation? Yes, it is. It can only be checked and verified with the actual financial data. That will tell how much money in total was invested and spend. The thing is, we'll only get those details after CIG falls over and simply by falling over, Chris proves he couldn't deliver within specs or budget.
However, since the funding chart is the only way CIG talks about their income stream, let's all pretend that they actually have received 155m so far. Not much to show for if this current 2.6.3 alpha build is all they can deliver right now. Unless they haven't spend that much money in the first place, but that'll be highly unlikely regarding the offices and staffcount.
You can't get out of your seat in Elite and you can't compare NMS to either. That's a cartoon. So no, nobody has done what CIG are doing before in a single game and certainly not to the visual beauty.
So uhm, what about Call Of Duty Infinite War and Mass Effect Andromeda?
So this tech innovation in Star Citizen is about explorable planetoids and being about to enter/exit ships in fps mode? :lol: :lol: :lol:
PLEASE list ALL the innovative tech in Star Citizen, which nobody has done before, so we can discuss them fully. It should be very interesting.
it's combining all of the elements together that's new and exciting. 155 million in pre orders exciting.
it's combining all of the elements together that's new and exciting. 155 million in pre orders exciting.
That's the problem. CIG are selling an overhyped dream based on flashy ships and tech demos.
They have no trouble showing off their planetary tech at conferences, together with giant sandworms but seem totally unable to provide players something to test themselves. At some point the alarm bells have to start ringing when a company can't prioritise the essential systems like netcode but can produce endless PR videos, pre-scripted clips, and of course endless ships, fully functional and with huge fidelity and price.
If people had confidence that they could actually make the blockbuster game as promised then all of this wouldn't be a problem. I'm sure even Derek would be happy. But progress on Game seems painfully slow especially when you compare it with the progress they can make producing high fidelity ships to go on sale. They seem to be spending too much time on distractions like box carrying animations, simulated breathing and lots and lots of artwork, instead of making gameplay mechanics and engine optimisations to make it playable.
I genuinely believe they want to make the game, but I'm not sure they can, at least not in a form which would meet people's expectations and fulfil the promises they made.
I also believe that they're misleading people by continuing to make promises which they know must be unrealistic.
Just my opinion though.
You can't get out of your seat in Elite and you can't compare NMS to either. That's a cartoon. So no, nobody has done what CIG are doing before in a single game and certainly not to the visual beauty.
So uhm, what about Call Of Duty Infinite War and Mass Effect Andromeda?
So this tech innovation in Star Citizen is about explorable planetoids and being about to enter/exit ships in fps mode? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Mass effect and call of duty are both very different games. You know this.
Again, what CIG is doing doesn't stand up to being new for each element on it's own, it's combining all of the elements together that's new and exciting. 155 million in pre orders exciting.
PLEASE list ALL the innovative tech in Star Citizen, which nobody has done before, so we can discuss them fully. It should be very interesting.
155 million in pre orders exciting.
So the choice as you and Derek see it was to either continue adding stretch goals and adding to feature creep/bloat or pocket the extra themselves?
You can't get out of your seat in Elite and you can't compare NMS to either. That's a cartoon. So no, nobody has done what CIG are doing before in a single game and certainly not to the visual beauty.
So uhm, what about Call Of Duty Infinite War and Mass Effect Andromeda?
So this tech innovation in Star Citizen is about explorable planetoids and being about to enter/exit ships in fps mode? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Mass effect and call of duty are both very different games. You know this.
I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about specifically the parts you mentioned above. "You can't get out of your seat" and "you can't compare to NMS either"
My point is that you can do those things in both COD:IW and ME:A. Also, "getting out of your seat" isn't innovative in any regard.QuoteAgain, what CIG is doing doesn't stand up to being new for each element on it's own, it's combining all of the elements together that's new and exciting. 155 million in pre orders exciting.
Right. So which elements is it "combining" together that makes it so innovative? You keep ignoring this part. So...QuotePLEASE list ALL the innovative tech in Star Citizen, which nobody has done before, so we can discuss them fully. It should be very interesting.
I repeat this for you, in case you somehow missed it; though I don't believe that you did.
Over hyped is fair enough but we'll have to wait and see if they can pull enough off of what they've said they can do to satisfy. 4.0 will be the point that I'll assess that and not before. If we have all the professions in and working to the level that the deep dive articles suggest, then it'll be fantastic. That 'if' is a big one I know.
Over hyped is fair enough but we'll have to wait and see if they can pull enough off of what they've said they can do to satisfy. 4.0 will be the point that I'll assess that and not before. If we have all the professions in and working to the level that the deep dive articles suggest, then it'll be fantastic. That 'if' is a big one I know.
How long you are ready to wait? 5 years ? 10 years ?!
Game was promised in 2014...
SQ42 is MIA from year 2015..
v3.0 was promised in dec 2016..
Those are NOT usual delays that we see from other "dirty publishers"...
CR is missing deadlines not by weeks or few months but by years !!!
About AtV - sure in their propaganda show game looks 10 out 10
but actual game is maybe 3 out 10 if you look at current 2.6.3...
So the choice as you and Derek see it was to either continue adding stretch goals and adding to feature creep/bloat or pocket the extra themselves?
I didn't say that. The thing is, they didn't stop the funding. If they had continued to accept pledges for a basic ship, that's one. But they didn't. Without anything to show for on their original promises, they kept on adding stuff to buy and selling more jpegs and more and more and more. Because they needed the money. Not to make it an even better game, but to keep afloat. Because the idea was to have a game by 2014 and from 2014 on, make money on exploiting the game and expanding the game in bits. But, no game in 2014. Whoops. Now what? We need to finish the game but where's the money to pay for that? What we had is gone now. Well, get extra money. Sell more stuff, sell other stuff. Hell, sell your mother for all I care, but get the money!
The thing is, we don't know how much money CIG has collected over the years. However, it's safe to say that their funding tracker is bogus. And we don't know how much CIG has spend over the years. However, it's safe to say it'll be much.
Is it likely that they have spend most if not all of their money by now and need to turn some drastic tricks to make it any further. Yes, I think that is likely. Highly likely.
Deadlines must mean something different to you than the rest of the world.
2.6 isn't that bad. It's empty and small compared to what's on the way but it works. As a test bed and proof of concept it's fine.
2.6 isn't that bad. It's empty and small compared to what's on the way but it works. As a test bed and proof of concept it's fine.
For me its bad, maybe if it was done in 1-2 years as tech demo that it was OK..but 5+ years...no way...
Maybe I have too high standarts, but if dev promises to create game of decade, than I will set expectations very high..
You want the world right now, which is fine, that's up to you. It's just unrealistic.
"Evil publishers" release full games in 5 years, SC is only in Pre-alfa state after 5 years...
This is direct result of lack of any planning, feature creep, neverending refactoring and "polishing" (in the end everything is unpolished anyway :P), focusing on jpg sales...
It goes beyond that. Somewhere along the line, Chris had an idea, a vision. He saw a kind of game that would combine several popular game-aspects into one. But he had no money to make it and knew for absolutely sure that no big company would dare to take another chance with him. And then came crowdfunding. Or maybe the vision came after crowdfunding, but who cares. Chris saw a window of opportunity and lauched his Kickstarter campaign. And then noticed he struck gold. His vision apparently appealed to a lot of people. However, Kickstarter has limitations and (legal) rules to abide by. That could hold him back in creating something to go with the vision. So, time to leave Kickstarter behind and start colleting the money directly.
And then it went off the rails. The money kept pooring in. With every wild idea, there it would come again. And again. And then Chris lost it. He probably thought that what he had envisioned would be doable. New modern techniques, clouds are everywhere, big publishers already basically doing it for years. How hard could it be? Money will buy everything, right? And boy, how nice it would be to prove everybody wrong and show them after all those years that he truly is the Master of Games. If they just give him the money and leave him be, he will prove it. Once and for all.
As an added bonus, they gave him so much money, he could add some family members to the payroll, and some old friends and put in some features that could help in another area as well. Let's demonstrate Hollywood I got skills at directing videoclips and have raw pure acting talent available at a snap with my fingertips. And still, every fart was a brilliant sound never heard before. Here's more money, do fart along!
So, he lost it. He started acting the big man who would show the world he could compete with the big companies. Opening multiple studios, going international, expanding his imperium. Because, I've laid down my vision, how hard can it be? As long as everybody does what I tell them to do, it'll turn out to be a huge success. Maybe a big company will buy RSI and then we'll be on our way to Hollywood.
And then it turned out to be really really hard to translate the dream into an actual working product. Having no clue whatsoever about, well, basically everything, it went all bad really quick. The money that should have lasted (them) for years went down the drain. Fast. Whoops. Oh no, Holy Fuck! Quick, let's keep everybody happy by sharing even more of my dreams and by jolly, if they are willing to pay for it, even better. Hell, we need them to because were having expenses we can't pay for long if we don't have a regular steady monthly incomeflow. So, draw pictures! Sell them. Doesn't matter if they can or will be converted to a actual useable item in the game (what game, hahahahaha, omg he's choking on it, somebody bring Chris some water) or just be a nice jpeg forever and ever, as long as it generates money.
Oh, now everything is falling apart. There's no way in hell we can actually build this game. We've been hiding it for years with small little things that need to be polished but the core of the game, we can't do it. We have the seats, the windows, some nice chrome parts and the little cupholder and you actually can buy coffee, but we can't build an engine. We started not with a normal V6 or V8, no we wanted to make a V12 but with Wankel technique. Never been done before. With reason, as it seems. And just to add some difficulty, we switched from gas to diesel, 'cause, you know, reasons, it all went so smoothly and shit and stuff. Now stop asking us when you can actually drive the car. It'll be finished when it's finished. However, those shiny wheelcaps that we draw? Yeah, we're not gonna make them, but we'll redraw them. And then they won't fit the wheels anymore, so we have to redo those too. Oops, now the wheels don't match the wheelcaps anymore. Hmm, let's look at a shop where you can buy hoodornaments first so people can toy with the carbody. A carbody that never will be attached to a working engine so you can actually drive that car around, but who cares.
As long as most of the people don't care if there ever will be a car, just ignore those screaming for a working engine. Fuck 'm. Fuck 'm all. After they give us their money of course. Then fuck 'm over once more. Call me when that isn't working anymore. I'll be on a yacht in Monaco probably, but call me anyway.
2.6 isn't that bad. It's empty and small compared to what's on the way but it works. As a test bed and proof of concept it's fine.
The only argument against this line of reasoning is that they're still in business so the funding tracker must be on the right lines otherwise how could they stay afloat all this time with an ever increasing number of employees?
Fact is, first 2 years overheads were tiny compared to today but funding was almost the same. Well over 50 million in two years, one of which they had less than 20 employees and a single office. They had tonnes of cash in reserve. Tiny Z used to be a hedge fund manager which means, I guess, he knows how to invest large chunks of cash.
Repeatedly saying they're about to run out of cash...for the last 2 years, becomes sillier and sillier as they continue to stay in business for longer and longer. They can have sales. They will deliver more game play. Money keeps coming in.
Don't you believe Derek's sources and the 220+ million in total received? Have they blown through all of that? Seriously?
Edit: From Derek's 'End game' blog from Oct 2015
"THE BEGINNING OF THE END
The four year, $90m+ Star Citizen video game project, is no longer a going concern. The project is FUBAR and there is no going back."
No longer a going concern. He thought they were bankrupt more or less two years ago. Is it time to call BS yet?
2.6 isn't that bad. It's empty and small compared to what's on the way but it works. As a test bed and proof of concept it's fine.
See after all your comment and analysis this is where we get to..
"what's on the way"
You are not CIG, CR or in any way in a position to KNOW what is on the way versus what you have been sold by the people MAKING THE MONEY....yet you are confident enough to claim it is "on the way"
You have a faith based position you have convinced yourself is based on knowledge.
I don't remember Derek claiming a exact time and date that CIG would collapse. He has been going on about this project being FUBAR for quite some time now, that is true. That doesn't mean he is wrong.
So the choice as you and Derek see it was to either continue adding stretch goals and adding to feature creep/bloat or pocket the extra themselves?
I didn't say that. The thing is, they didn't stop the funding. If they had continued to accept pledges for a basic ship, that's one. But they didn't. Without anything to show for on their original promises, they kept on adding stuff to buy and selling more jpegs and more and more and more. Because they needed the money. Not to make it an even better game, but to keep afloat. Because the idea was to have a game by 2014 and from 2014 on, make money on exploiting the game and expanding the game in bits. But, no game in 2014. Whoops. Now what? We need to finish the game but where's the money to pay for that? What we had is gone now. Well, get extra money. Sell more stuff, sell other stuff. Hell, sell your mother for all I care, but get the money!
The thing is, we don't know how much money CIG has collected over the years. However, it's safe to say that their funding tracker is bogus. And we don't know how much CIG has spend over the years. However, it's safe to say it'll be much.
Is it likely that they have spend most if not all of their money by now and need to turn some drastic tricks to make it any further. Yes, I think that is likely. Highly likely.
PLEASE list ALL the innovative tech in Star Citizen, which nobody has done before, so we can discuss them fully. It should be very interesting.
Ok. I'm not going to talk about technology as I don't know much about that but I can talk about the game and why it's so enticing. What makes it potentially so special. The features planned that, combined, nobody has done before.
Multiplayer, realistic (enough) flight/space simulator mechanics with 6DoF, inertia, momentum etc where you are a pilot in a ship or vehicle able to get out of the seat and engage in FPS play in single, seamless maps, millions of km in size, fully traversable without loading screens of any kind including landing anywhere on PG planetary bodies of near full scale which can be fully explored with hand crafted POIs including both PVE and PVP game elements, deep skill based game mechanics for mining/repair etc which involves more than simply holding down a button, player influenced economy with real-time supply and demand market pressures all in an engine as beautiful as cryengine.
NMS, CoD, Battlecrusier, LoD, Battlescape infinity, Dual Universe, Elite Dangerous, Angels fall first and any other game you can mention simply can't claim all of that.
For what it's worth I've played LoD, own Angels fall first and I'm a kickstarter backer for Dual Universe and Battlescape and I'm looking forward to seeing them become cool games in time but they don't have the scope or appeal of SC.
Question back at you. Why do you think the game's fundraising has destroyed all previous records for crowd funding if it isn't the fact it's trying to be something new and special?
It's not a contiguous or seamless "map" or there won't be enough memory to load it.
Maybe you have a very selective memory or maybe you can't read very well, either way Derek predicted 60 to 90 days, I posted a picture earlier in the thread, and he said they weren't a going concern nearly 2 years ago. That's a date range and him being incredibly wrong.
A company that is no longer a going concern doesn't stay in business for 2 years and counting!
Please at least try to read what I write if you're going to argue with me.
Derek is either making stuff up to hurt a competitor, parroting BS from ill informed sources or making idiotic assumptions based off incorrect analysis or analytics.
I remember when he explained how he got involved and mentioned reading a comm link where they mentioned starting the 64 conversion and that being a red flag that got him digging because it was so much work and they were in year 3 or 4 or whatever and it would take too long to complete, when in fact, the comm link said they'd nearly finished the 64 bit conversion. Willful twisting of facts or reading comprehension failure? I'll leave it up to you to decide for yourself. It's certainly not what he said it was though.
Don't you believe Derek's sources and the 220+ million in total received? Have they blown through all of that? Seriously?
Edit: From Derek's 'End game' blog from Oct 2015
"THE BEGINNING OF THE END
The four year, $90m+ Star Citizen video game project, is no longer a going concern. The project is FUBAR and there is no going back."
No longer a going concern. He thought they were bankrupt more or less two years ago. Is it time to call BS yet?
Don't you believe Derek's sources and the 220+ million in total received? Have they blown through all of that? Seriously?
First of all, my sources have been right about more things related to this project, than Roberts' has been truthful about it.
Second, if the CIG funding chart, at $155M is to be believed, coupled with what we DON'T know about investor money and loans, why is $285M (the cited number), which is barely $130M higher, so far fetched? Even if it's not as high as $285K, what gives you reason to believe that $155M is accurate, and the only money they have thus far received on the project?
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/885144183945789442QuoteEdit: From Derek's 'End game' blog from Oct 2015
"THE BEGINNING OF THE END
The four year, $90m+ Star Citizen video game project, is no longer a going concern. The project is FUBAR and there is no going back."
No longer a going concern. He thought they were bankrupt more or less two years ago. Is it time to call BS yet?
Didn't we go through this already?
And a "going concern (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Going_concern)" has NOTHING to do with going bankrupt. Again, I have to ask you to look up on things and understand them, before you engage in discussions about those things.
Derek is either making stuff up to hurt a competitor, parroting BS from ill informed sources or making idiotic assumptions based off incorrect analysis or analytics.
I remember when he explained how he got involved and mentioned reading a comm link where they mentioned starting the 64 conversion and that being a red flag that got him digging because it was so much work and they were in year 3 or 4 or whatever and it would take too long to complete, when in fact, the comm link said they'd nearly finished the 64 bit conversion. Willful twisting of facts or reading comprehension failure? I'll leave it up to you to decide for yourself. It's certainly not what he said it was though.
Engineering
In June, Frankfurt Engineering deployed to the main codebase some major items that were planned for this month. As mentioned in the last monthly report, the Large World (moving the codebase to 64 bit coordinates), Camera Relative (rendering coordinates relative to the camera thus allowing galaxy size rendering without loss of precision), Zone system (the new Star Citizen spatial partitioning scheme, replacing Cryengine Octree) were close to hit the Star Citizen code mainline and have now been deployed, and will find their way into the various Star Citizen game modules soon.
The integration of relevant CryEngine 3.7 SDK parts, combined with our new changes, is being deployed into our codebase as we are writing this.
Engineering
For the month of May, Frankfurt Engineering has been busy on multiple fronts. We made a lot of progress on Large World (moving the codebase to 64 bit coordinates, thus allowing galaxy size (literally) levels to be created and explored in Star Citizen) . The main task being worked on Large World this month was making the rendering Camera Relative: in fact the move to 64 bit required all rendering code to be changed to be relative to the camera and not simply in absolute world coordinates any more.
Dude, I said none on their own are special but it's the combination of it all. I said it's their plans for it all and not available right now. Do you even read before replying? No game is doing it all. None of them.
I've seen your attempts at physics in flight. LoD is a disgrace in this regard. I'll link a video if you like but I think we both know it's laughable.
Yes it is. How much memory does empty space take up? You really are displaying your ignorance here.
Maybe you have a very selective memory or maybe you can't read very well, either way Derek predicted 60 to 90 days, I posted a picture earlier in the thread, and he said they weren't a going concern nearly 2 years ago. That's a date range and him being incredibly wrong.
A company that is no longer a going concern doesn't stay in business for 2 years and counting!
Please at least try to read what I write if you're going to argue with me.
Derek is either making stuff up to hurt a competitor, parroting BS from ill informed sources or making idiotic assumptions based off incorrect analysis or analytics.
I remember when he explained how he got involved and mentioned reading a comm link where they mentioned starting the 64 conversion and that being a red flag that got him digging because it was so much work and they were in year 3 or 4 or whatever and it would take too long to complete, when in fact, the comm link said they'd nearly finished the 64 bit conversion. Willful twisting of facts or reading comprehension failure? I'll leave it up to you to decide for yourself. It's certainly not what he said it was though.
Derek explained that 60 to 90 days was an exaggeration. He showed the whole timeline. But okay, let's take that litterally. So, yes he was wrong there. At the moment, CIG is still alive. How they managed to do so, nobody knows. It's not by delivering what they promised, that's for sure.
Now the question is, for how long can they stay alive? I think it won't be for long now. They have lied too long to their backers now. They can't produce a decent game. Alpha 3.0 will be a very disappointing gameplay, if they dare to release it at all.
It is safe to say that Derek has been right though.
- It's now August 2017. The game - as pitched - isn't here. Not even close. So, there's that.
- If the funding chart is correct, CIG has now raised 155m. The game - as pitched - isn't here. Not even close. So, there's that.
Now, will CIG be able to make the game - as pitched - even if they had unlimited funding? No, it's just not doable at the moment. Maybe in 10 or 20 years.
Does CIG have enough funding to continue for at least delivering at the bare minimum, a decent working basic game? No, probably not.
Can CIG keep on generating money to keep afloat in the same way they have done for the last couple of years? No, probably not.
Is Star Citizen as game totally FUBAR? Well, yes. It's a miracle that they lasted until now. They need to pull another couple of miracles now with the 3.0 build, Games Com and Shitizencon. Let's see if they manage that...
Read more: Going Concern http://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/goingconcern.asp#ixzz4oc7Twmsl
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In fact I clicked the link you provided in the blog in question, which said the same thing.
What does 'Going Concern' mean
Going concern is an accounting term for a company that has the resources needed to continue to operate indefinitely until a company provides evidence to the contrary, and this term also refers to a company's ability to make enough money to stay afloat or avoid bankruptcy. If a business is not a going concern, it means the company has gone bankrupt and its assets were liquidated. As an example, many dot-coms are no longer going concern companies after the tech bust in the late 1990s.
The only argument against this line of reasoning is that they're still in business so the funding tracker must be on the right lines otherwise how could they stay afloat all this time with an ever increasing number of employees?
Fact is, first 2 years overheads were tiny compared to today but funding was almost the same. Well over 50 million in two years, one of which they had less than 20 employees and a single office. They had tonnes of cash in reserve. Tiny Z used to be a hedge fund manager which means, I guess, he knows how to invest large chunks of cash.
Repeatedly saying they're about to run out of cash...for the last 2 years, becomes sillier and sillier as they continue to stay in business for longer and longer. They can have sales. They will deliver more game play. Money keeps coming in.
Don't you believe Derek's sources and the 220+ million in total received? Have they blown through all of that? Seriously?
Edit: From Derek's 'End game' blog from Oct 2015
"THE BEGINNING OF THE END
The four year, $90m+ Star Citizen video game project, is no longer a going concern. The project is FUBAR and there is no going back."
No longer a going concern. He thought they were bankrupt more or less two years ago. Is it time to call BS yet?
Chris might have pulled some money elsewhere. Investors, bankloans, who knows? The thing is, if you have enough money, you don't need more, but you'll probably want more. Now, if you have enough money (the 65m for the original promises), why would you keep on asking for more money for a product you can't deliver? That behaviour will only get you more and more upset, angry, complaning customers. I now have 10 angry people because I didn't deliver their car. Let's sell more cars. Yeah, brilliant strategy :doh:
Tiny Z might have been a terrible hedge fund manager. The fact that someone claims to be/has been XYZ, doesn't mean they are/were good at it (Hi Chris, Hi Sandi :wave: )
I don't remember Derek claiming a exact time and date that CIG would collapse. He has been going on about this project being FUBAR for quite some time now, that is true. That doesn't mean he is wrong. With everything I see, I support his views. CIG has lasted longer than he anticipated yes, because they managed to get their hands on more money than expected. But not because they are a top-notch organisation with the best management layer ever and with financial skills that are on par with the best from the best at Wall Street.
But the desparate need for money - that has no bearing whatsoever on the survival of the game (as by own admission from Chris) - is at the least very strange. I see no signs of a healthy company in their current behaviour. I see a company in distress. And with no clear way out, because admitting they have money problems will automatically be the end of them too.
Read more: Going Concern http://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/goingconcern.asp#ixzz4oc7Twmsl
Follow us: Investopedia on Facebook
In fact I clicked the link you provided in the blog in question, which said the same thing.
So you dug up a link, read it, but still chose to distort the meaning?QuoteWhat does 'Going Concern' mean
Going concern is an accounting term for a company that has the resources needed to continue to operate indefinitely until a company provides evidence to the contrary, and this term also refers to a company's ability to make enough money to stay afloat or avoid bankruptcy. If a business is not a going concern, it means the company has gone bankrupt and its assets were liquidated. As an example, many dot-coms are no longer going concern companies after the tech bust in the late 1990s.
Now compare the above to my statement about CIG, and explain to me WHERE it implied that they were bankrupt (which would be a public filing)
"The four year, $90m+ Star Citizen video game project, is no longer a going concern. The project is FUBAR and there is no going back.
In June, Frankfurt Engineering deployed to the main codebase some major items that were planned for this month. As mentioned in the last monthly report, the Large World (moving the codebase to 64 bit coordinates)
The defination for going concern from Wikipedia is:
A going concern is a business that functions without the threat of liquidation for the foreseeable future, usually regarded as at least within 12 months. It implies for the business the basic declaration of intention to keep running its activities at least for the next year, which is a basic assumption to prepare financial statements considering the conceptual framework of the IFRS. Hence, the declaration of going concern means that the entity has neither the intention nor the need to liquidate or curtail materially the scale of its operations.
So, to say a company is no longer an going concern, doesn't mean it's bankrupt, but it generally means it won't last more than the upcoming 12 months. So, if Derek said this 2 years ago, he was wrong, since CIG is still here. If, and only if, you take the statement literally. However, if you look at the statement in a somewhat broader view, you'll see the meaning as intended by Derek. As in, CIG will not be able to live up to what they pre-sold. They can't cut it and they won't make it. That narrative is quite in line with his other statements about CIG and SC. Now, I'll give you that it has taking longer than expected. However, I hereby will say that in my humble opinion, CIG no longer is a going concern. They won't last another 12 months. I don't foresee a future for CIG as a running company. Only running from the law.
Can you explain to me which part I distorted, because it looks like it's exactly the same to me. Probably because it is exactly the same.
So if something, (64 bit coordinates), has been 'deployed to the main codebase', I'm taking that to mean it's basically completed. They'd been working on it for years.
I'm referring to an interview where I heard you saying they'd just started on the conversion. I don't have a link. Perhaps it was the open house or somewhere else. I have a good memory and I know you said it somewhere. I remember listening to you, going to check the comm link and laughing at your, (deliberate?), misunderstanding.
They've done what the blog you linked talks about you could never do. That must hurt. I'm sorry that someone else is managing to accomplish your dream but there you go. There it is and there we are. Of course, we need 3.0 in our hands to confirm but the PC gamer journalist you questioned on twitter confirmed it, that's good enough for me.
THE HOLY GRAIL
As I’ve said in many interviews, articles and so on, when I first set out to make these games, I had an all-encompassing vision. Being a sci-fi buff, I wanted a game in which one could travel through the stars, meet strange new people, explore, trade, fight, command your crew, and all that. All in space, and on planets, in first person infantry mode, with air, space, and vehicular combat thrown into the mix. I envisioned a mix of Elite with Star Flight, a dash of Sentinel Worlds and Hard Nova, and all the ludicrously complex machinations of the Star Fleet series.
The fact that I actually pulled off the first iteration in 1996, while most were either laughing at me, or saying how it couldn’t be done, is something that has been lost in time.
Through it all, my vision was still not complete because, even though GPU and CPU technologies were progressing at a fast pace, the game engine technologies still weren’t there. As a result, I continued to make sacrifices in order to keep moving things forward. For example, you can’t have high visual fidelity when you’re trying to build a massive game world. So I tended to sacrifice visuals for gameplay, something that was seemingly unheard of back in the day because you just get laughed at. Which is hilarious now that I think about it, when there are so many best-selling but shallow games with sub-par graphics.
The Holy Grail of immersion for me has always been for the player to be able to exist in first person (aka infantry) mode throughout the entire game world. You’d be able to walk around inside your ship. You’d be able to dock that ship with a station, exit, walk around inside that station. You’d be able to fly your ship directly into a planet, land, exit that ship, enter a building, do stuff etc.
Much like back in 1996 whereby nobody had even come close to my vision, as of this writing, nobody has come close to making that game, let alone a capital ship combat game that gives you so much control and freedom.
Except me.
And it still continues to be a technical challenge of seemingly insurmountable proportions, over twenty-five years later since I first had an idea for the game that was to become Battlecruiser 3000AD.
And the only way that anyone is ever going to be able to make that game is if they built technologies specifically designed for it, and they have the deep financial pockets to do it with. And after that, it has to be compelling enough for gamers to want to upgrade their rig in order to play it. Unless you’re releasing the next Elder Scrolls, Call Of Duty, Battlefield, GTA or similar, good luck with getting modern-day gamers to bother upgrading to play your game without sufficient evidence of what makes your game so special.
Fact is, these all-encompassing games are exceptionally difficult to make. You can safely take that from someone who has spent over two decades making them. And even if you do manage to get the money to do it, and even manage to pull it off, the genre itself pretty much guarantees that the race to profit is fraught with agony, strife, frustration, and pain.
Been lurking here for a while, but finally had to register just to let both DS and Serendipity how extremely entertaining this joust has been. It's pretty clear neither side is ever going to convince the other.
I am an old time gamer (54) so I have played quite a few games over the years. Wing Commander, Freelancer even BattleCruiser 3000. I am a systems admin with a little dev (just enough to get into trouble). I joined the SC KS in Oct 2012. Was in for about 230$. The biggest red flag for myself was when they announced they were using CRYengine.
Why? Its been pretty obvious since, that was their first mistake. Trying to re-code this engine to fit CR's dream has obviously been problematic and seems to be the cause of many of the delays. There have been many other red flags but you guys have covered them pretty well. The games has also changed too much for my tastes - I am a sim guy and pretty much hate FPS/PVP. That's why earlier this year I got out. RSI refunded my full amount without hassle and even left my account intact. If a game is ever delivered I will revisit.
My gut feeling and that all it is, is they are in trouble due to CRYengine. It is just requiring too much time and effort to modify it to fit the demands. They would have been better off scrapping it and developing an in house engine.
But it is too late for that.
Thanks for listening. Carry on.
Should 3.0 deliver what they say it will, and the PC gamer journalist you spoke to on twitter says they have, then it seems to me CIG have achieved exactly what you suggest can't be done, your 'holy grail', what you have not managed to do. A seamless, huge world with incredible visuals.
What the hell am I talking about? This:
Through it all, my vision was still not complete because, even though GPU and CPU technologies were progressing at a fast pace, the game engine technologies still weren’t there. As a result, I continued to make sacrifices in order to keep moving things forward. For example, you can’t have high visual fidelity when you’re trying to build a massive game world. So I tended to sacrifice visuals for gameplay, something that was seemingly unheard of back in the day because you just get laughed at. Which is hilarious now that I think about it, when there are so many best-selling but shallow games with sub-par graphics.
Should 3.0 deliver what they say it will, and the PC gamer journalist you spoke to on twitter says they have, then it seems to me CIG have achieved exactly what you suggest can't be done, your 'holy grail', what you have not managed to do. A seamless, huge world with incredible visuals.
They've done what the blog you linked talks about you could never do. That must hurt. I'm sorry that someone else is managing to accomplish your dream but there you go. There it is and there we are. Of course, we need 3.0 in our hands to confirm but the PC gamer journalist you questioned on twitter confirmed it, that's good enough for me.What in the hell are you talking about? My Interstellar Citizens (http://www.dereksmart.com/2015/07/interstellar-citizens/) blog had NOTHING to do with anything other than having a seamless experience whereby a player exists in the ENTIRE game in first person. None of the BC/UC games have FPS inside capital ships or stations. And LoD has some (FPS inside stations and a carrier) that, but as a "Combined Arms" game, not a dedicated "Space/Planetary Combat Game/Sim" like BC/UC games, it doesn't count.
And so far Star Citizen hasn't even done it because, unlike LoD, they're still struggling to get a moon or planetoid working, let alone the massive scale planets and moons in BC/UC, or the detailed planetary bases in LoD.
Are you aware that the ENTIRE Star Citizen "world" is but a postage stamp, compared to the contiguous world featured in Battlecruiser/Universal Combat games? Yes, yes, of course you are, but go ahead and ignore it if you want.
THE HOLY GRAIL
As I’ve said in many interviews, articles and so on, when I first set out to make these games, I had an all-encompassing vision. Being a sci-fi buff, I wanted a game in which one could travel through the stars, meet strange new people, explore, trade, fight, command your crew, and all that. All in space, and on planets, in first person infantry mode, with air, space, and vehicular combat thrown into the mix. I envisioned a mix of Elite with Star Flight, a dash of Sentinel Worlds and Hard Nova, and all the ludicrously complex machinations of the Star Fleet series.
The fact that I actually pulled off the first iteration in 1996, while most were either laughing at me, or saying how it couldn’t be done, is something that has been lost in time.
Through it all, my vision was still not complete because, even though GPU and CPU technologies were progressing at a fast pace, the game engine technologies still weren’t there. As a result, I continued to make sacrifices in order to keep moving things forward. For example, you can’t have high visual fidelity when you’re trying to build a massive game world. So I tended to sacrifice visuals for gameplay, something that was seemingly unheard of back in the day because you just get laughed at. Which is hilarious now that I think about it, when there are so many best-selling but shallow games with sub-par graphics.
The Holy Grail of immersion for me has always been for the player to be able to exist in first person (aka infantry) mode throughout the entire game world. You’d be able to walk around inside your ship. You’d be able to dock that ship with a station, exit, walk around inside that station. You’d be able to fly your ship directly into a planet, land, exit that ship, enter a building, do stuff etc.
Much like back in 1996 whereby nobody had even come close to my vision, as of this writing, nobody has come close to making that game, let alone a capital ship combat game that gives you so much control and freedom.
Except me.
And it still continues to be a technical challenge of seemingly insurmountable proportions, over twenty-five years later since I first had an idea for the game that was to become Battlecruiser 3000AD.
And the only way that anyone is ever going to be able to make that game is if they built technologies specifically designed for it, and they have the deep financial pockets to do it with. And after that, it has to be compelling enough for gamers to want to upgrade their rig in order to play it. Unless you’re releasing the next Elder Scrolls, Call Of Duty, Battlefield, GTA or similar, good luck with getting modern-day gamers to bother upgrading to play your game without sufficient evidence of what makes your game so special.
Fact is, these all-encompassing games are exceptionally difficult to make. You can safely take that from someone who has spent over two decades making them. And even if you do manage to get the money to do it, and even manage to pull it off, the genre itself pretty much guarantees that the race to profit is fraught with agony, strife, frustration, and pain.
If you are new to SC, then I can understand your enthusiasm about game, but old backers are not that excited anymore...too many broken promises...
What the hell am I talking about? This:
Through it all, my vision was still not complete because, even though GPU and CPU technologies were progressing at a fast pace, the game engine technologies still weren’t there. As a result, I continued to make sacrifices in order to keep moving things forward. For example, you can’t have high visual fidelity when you’re trying to build a massive game world. So I tended to sacrifice visuals for gameplay, something that was seemingly unheard of back in the day because you just get laughed at. Which is hilarious now that I think about it, when there are so many best-selling but shallow games with sub-par graphics.
Should 3.0 deliver what they say it will, and the PC gamer journalist you spoke to on twitter says they have, then it seems to me CIG have achieved exactly what you suggest can't be done, your 'holy grail', what you have not managed to do. A seamless, huge world with incredible visuals.
I see you've pretty much given up all semblance of reason now and just walked off a cliff. You conveniently highlighted and carved out the visuals aspect of the comment, while leaving the qualifying parts which collectively form the context.
Here, to save you going back to the previous page (http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=29.msg2347#msg2347), I will repost it for you:QuoteThey've done what the blog you linked talks about you could never do. That must hurt. I'm sorry that someone else is managing to accomplish your dream but there you go. There it is and there we are. Of course, we need 3.0 in our hands to confirm but the PC gamer journalist you questioned on twitter confirmed it, that's good enough for me.What in the hell are you talking about? My Interstellar Citizens (http://www.dereksmart.com/2015/07/interstellar-citizens/) blog had NOTHING to do with anything other than having a seamless experience whereby a player exists in the ENTIRE game in first person. None of the BC/UC games have FPS inside capital ships or stations. And LoD has some (FPS inside stations and a carrier) that, but as a "Combined Arms" game, not a dedicated "Space/Planetary Combat Game/Sim" like BC/UC games, it doesn't count.
And so far Star Citizen hasn't even done it because, unlike LoD, they're still struggling to get a moon or planetoid working, let alone the massive scale planets and moons in BC/UC, or the detailed planetary bases in LoD.
Are you aware that the ENTIRE Star Citizen "world" is but a postage stamp, compared to the contiguous world featured in Battlecruiser/Universal Combat games? Yes, yes, of course you are, but go ahead and ignore it if you want.
THE HOLY GRAIL
As I’ve said in many interviews, articles and so on, when I first set out to make these games, I had an all-encompassing vision. Being a sci-fi buff, I wanted a game in which one could travel through the stars, meet strange new people, explore, trade, fight, command your crew, and all that. All in space, and on planets, in first person infantry mode, with air, space, and vehicular combat thrown into the mix. I envisioned a mix of Elite with Star Flight, a dash of Sentinel Worlds and Hard Nova, and all the ludicrously complex machinations of the Star Fleet series.
The fact that I actually pulled off the first iteration in 1996, while most were either laughing at me, or saying how it couldn’t be done, is something that has been lost in time.
Through it all, my vision was still not complete because, even though GPU and CPU technologies were progressing at a fast pace, the game engine technologies still weren’t there. As a result, I continued to make sacrifices in order to keep moving things forward. For example, you can’t have high visual fidelity when you’re trying to build a massive game world. So I tended to sacrifice visuals for gameplay, something that was seemingly unheard of back in the day because you just get laughed at. Which is hilarious now that I think about it, when there are so many best-selling but shallow games with sub-par graphics.
The Holy Grail of immersion for me has always been for the player to be able to exist in first person (aka infantry) mode throughout the entire game world. You’d be able to walk around inside your ship. You’d be able to dock that ship with a station, exit, walk around inside that station. You’d be able to fly your ship directly into a planet, land, exit that ship, enter a building, do stuff etc.
Much like back in 1996 whereby nobody had even come close to my vision, as of this writing, nobody has come close to making that game, let alone a capital ship combat game that gives you so much control and freedom.
Except me.
And it still continues to be a technical challenge of seemingly insurmountable proportions, over twenty-five years later since I first had an idea for the game that was to become Battlecruiser 3000AD.
And the only way that anyone is ever going to be able to make that game is if they built technologies specifically designed for it, and they have the deep financial pockets to do it with. And after that, it has to be compelling enough for gamers to want to upgrade their rig in order to play it. Unless you’re releasing the next Elder Scrolls, Call Of Duty, Battlefield, GTA or similar, good luck with getting modern-day gamers to bother upgrading to play your game without sufficient evidence of what makes your game so special.
Fact is, these all-encompassing games are exceptionally difficult to make. You can safely take that from someone who has spent over two decades making them. And even if you do manage to get the money to do it, and even manage to pull it off, the genre itself pretty much guarantees that the race to profit is fraught with agony, strife, frustration, and pain.
If your opinion is that with the high visual fidelity + large game world means Star Citizen has succeeded, despite my writing an entire paragraph detailing what my "Holy Grail" opinion is, then they should just mark it as released right now, and call it a day. Game complete.
Star Citizen hasn't delivered ANY of what I stated above and which you highlighted. And it won't. As in never. And whatever PC Gamer and GameStar "played" doesn't even amount to ANY of the above, other than visuals. How does having a world that's not even 1% build amount to it succeeding is completely baffling to me.
I like how everything is "should" and "will" though. Gotta keep the faith.
If you are new to SC, then I can understand your enthusiasm about game, but old backers are not that excited anymore...too many broken promises...
He's not new. He's one of these guys over on /r/ds engaged in auto-fellatio, while cowardly posting here under an alt, thinking he's winding us up with circular and strawman arguments.
Not a single cliff was walked off this day and of course they can't call it a day. It's your proclamations of impossibility that I'm arguing against. Again, " you can’t have high visual fidelity when you’re trying to build a massive game world." Star Citizen disagrees. Then you say this,
So I quoted something from spectrum and accidentally left my user name in the paste. Looking back at edit logs will have revealed who I am. I'm certainly not new to SC. Backed Jan 2014 if memory serves. I've commented on r ds. I've commented in r SC. In all cases my handle is ConfusedMonkeh.
I haven't tried to suck my own cock since I was about 13 and it has nothing to do with cowardice posting under a different name. It's only because you banned me last year but I enjoy talking about SC so I re registered to chat but without being as confrontational with my comments. It's been fun. You may notice I'm hardly a prolific poster anywhere on the internet, I think this is the most I've posted anywhere about anything, except in my VoiceAttack profile thread on the old RSI forums. It's been stimulating and amusing. Long may it continue.
What the... I quoted your holy grail comment. It's EXACTLY what is coming in 3.0. FPS to ship to station to planetoid to building. Exactly the same. As evidenced by numerous CIG presentations and recent journalist commentary. How am I not arguing in good faith?
You're really not making sense anymore. Are you ok?
What the... I quoted your holy grail comment. It's EXACTLY what is coming in 3.0. FPS to ship to station to planetoid to building. Exactly the same. As evidenced by numerous CIG presentations and recent journalist commentary. How am I not arguing in good faith?
You're really not making sense anymore. Are you ok?
OK now you're just trolling. Are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that everything I posted in my Holy Grail is coming in 3.0? LMAO!!! Are you serious right now?
The features aren't there. But you keep claiming they "will be", which completely negates your very own argument
What the... I quoted your holy grail comment. It's EXACTLY what is coming in 3.0. FPS to ship to station to planetoid to building. Exactly the same. As evidenced by numerous CIG presentations and recent journalist commentary. How am I not arguing in good faith?
You're really not making sense anymore. Are you ok?
OK now you're just trolling. Are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that everything I posted in my Holy Grail is coming in 3.0? LMAO!!! Are you serious right now?
FPS to ship to space to planet to building is coming in 3.0. Not much game play admittedly but that was the core of your holy grail. It's coming in 3.0.
Being a sci-fi buff, I wanted a game in which one could travel through the stars, meet strange new people, explore, trade, fight, command your crew, and all that. All in space, and on planets, in first person infantry mode, with air, space, and vehicular combat thrown into the mix. I envisioned a mix of Elite with Star Flight, a dash of Sentinel Worlds and Hard Nova, and all the ludicrously complex machinations of the Star Fleet series.
The Holy Grail of immersion for me has always been for the player to be able to exist in first person (aka infantry) mode throughout the entire game world. You’d be able to walk around inside your ship. You’d be able to dock that ship with a station, exit, walk around inside that station. You’d be able to fly your ship directly into a planet, land, exit that ship, enter a building, do stuff etc.
Now please do correct me if I'm wrong but this is EXACTLY what 3.0 is reported to have. Not just reported by the evil, lying CIG devs but also the 'shills' at PCGamer magazine and Gamestar. All at a very high visual fidelity that comes with Cryengine. They've done it. Your holy grail is almost upon us.
I'm not sure why you linked my reddit profile after I told you exactly who I was. That doesn't prove much now does it. As I said, I'm reasonably sure you saw my user name in an edit log. That's ok. Que Sera Sera.
What the... I quoted your holy grail comment. It's EXACTLY what is coming in 3.0. FPS to ship to station to planetoid to building. Exactly the same. As evidenced by numerous CIG presentations and recent journalist commentary. How am I not arguing in good faith?
You're really not making sense anymore. Are you ok?
OK now you're just trolling. Are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that everything I posted in my Holy Grail is coming in 3.0? LMAO!!! Are you serious right now?
FPS to ship to space to planet to building is coming in 3.0. Not much game play admittedly but that was the core of your holy grail. It's coming in 3.0.
You DO realize that Star Citizen is barely a proof-of-concept tech demo, right? And that even with moons in 3.0, that's all it's going to be?
OK, here, let me break it down for you, and remove all the fluff.QuoteBeing a sci-fi buff, I wanted a game in which one could travel through the stars, meet strange new people, explore, trade, fight, command your crew, and all that. All in space, and on planets, in first person infantry mode, with air, space, and vehicular combat thrown into the mix. I envisioned a mix of Elite with Star Flight, a dash of Sentinel Worlds and Hard Nova, and all the ludicrously complex machinations of the Star Fleet series.
*
- FPS in stations
- FPS in ships
- FPS on planet/moon
- Large universe
- Exploration
- Trading
- Combat
- Crew command
- Aircraft
- Space craft
- Ground vehicles
And this encapsulates the above:QuoteThe Holy Grail of immersion for me has always been for the player to be able to exist in first person (aka infantry) mode throughout the entire game world. You’d be able to walk around inside your ship. You’d be able to dock that ship with a station, exit, walk around inside that station. You’d be able to fly your ship directly into a planet, land, exit that ship, enter a building, do stuff etc.
So please explain to me, as best you can, how Star Citizen 3.0, which is still in pre-Alpha and doesn't even have 15% of its features complete (https://starcitizentracker.github.io/), has managed to somehow achieve all those things. And since you somehow believe that it has, are you now expecting it to be "released" in August?
* NOTE: With the exception of "FPS inside stations and ships", BC/UC games, which in the series are over THREE decades old, have ALL of those features. And LoD has those missing features, but in a smaller scale. But BC/UC + LOD != Holy Grail for me. One day, I hope to take what's in LOD and which is missing in BC/UC and put it in a new UC game (http://bc3000ad.com).
(http://bc3000ad.com/wp-content/themes/blackaperture-bc3k/images/uc_poster_large.jpg)
I'm not sure why you linked my reddit profile after I told you exactly who I was. That doesn't prove much now does it. As I said, I'm reasonably sure you saw my user name in an edit log. That's ok. Que Sera Sera.
Because it was in support of your previous comment. And your comments are indicative of your motivation here. And note that I didn't "out" you, until you did that yourself. Also, I could simply have just banned your alt.
Yes I realise the current alpha is bare bones and needs a lot of work before it's a full game.
-FPS in stations. ----- Yes 2.0
-FPS in ships. ---- Yes Starfarer/constellation
- FPS on planet/moon --- Yes in 3.0
- Large universe ---No but it's a pretty damn large single, seamless map with more to come after alpha.
- Exploration ---- Yes 2.0
- Trading. ---- Yes 3.0 kiosks and cargo
- Combat --- Obviously yes
- Crew command ---- Yes 3.0 stations for shield control and what not. Basic but in.
- Aircraft. ---- Yes 3.0 has planetary bodies with atmosphere
- Space craft ---- Yes
- Ground vehicles ----- Yes 3.0 Nox, Ursa, Dragonfly
Just missing the large universe really, an important part but an easy one to accomplish once the foundation of 3.0 is in place.
Your move.
Yes of course. I believe the PCGamer journalist that Derek asked on twitter. He played it. He landed on a moon. It's happening. It's coming soon. August? Dunno. Don't care. Just like the other milstones, AC, 2.0, Star Marine etc, all took their time. All arrived. All got better and more stable with updates.Frankly, it had better knock the socks off everyone, because right now it's in Daikatana/Duke Nukem Forever territory.
Really looking forward to having a good go myself.
- Exploration ---- Yes 2.0
- Exploration ---- Yes 2.0
There is nothing to explore in SC currently...there even is no scanners after 5-6 years :D
Exploration in SC is dead on arrival, because their "Galaxy" is just to small to have unique experience like it is in ED.
Oh and by the way, here's another of Derek's guarantees.
(http://i.imgur.com/PKMzHtU.jpg)
Is that one hyperbole, failed analytics or just a fabrication designed to spread FUD?
There's some exploring to be done around the asteroid belt in 2.6. Weapon crates, derelict ships and a 'Bennyhenge' to be found.
The moons aren't precisely barren in 3.0 as there will be POIs and derelict ships and some outposts too plus who knows what else. They can't have told us everything they've made.
Agreed that it's small right now but that will change as stuff gets added. Hopefully it won't just be a slightly different coloured planet and one of 5 different station designs as well.
Is that one hyperbole, failed analytics or just a fabrication designed to spread FUD?
There's some exploring to be done around the asteroid belt in 2.6. Weapon crates, derelict ships and a 'Bennyhenge' to be found.
Oh and by the way, here's another of Derek's guarantees.
Is that one hyperbole, failed analytics or just a fabrication designed to spread FUD?
I think it would be wiser to keep Serendipity here but without arguing him on all aspects - as that is pointless - rather than kicking him out. That'll only feed the Reddit trolls. They already seem to think that Serendipity is bitchslappin' you around constantly.
Please explain how it's acheived all of those things.
Explains all but one.
That's not how it works!?!?
I'm afraid it is how it works. 3.0 is the basis for creating your holy grail. To quote one dsmart, pucker up, it's coming.
I understand the game isn't finished and I understand you don't think it can be. I disagree. In my opinion, 3.0 is a large step in the right direction, not just for planetary landings but the rest of the large list of technology and systems finished and coming online with its release making fleshing the game out possible. For me, as a gamer, it's exciting.
It doesn't matter if CIG have done anything new or not. Is it fun? That's all that matters. Right now fun is in short supply. As the mechanics get added to the huge, contiguous system map I reckon lots of people will find fun to be had.
I'd like to ask what the problem is with whales funding the project too please. What is bad about funding coming in from any source? Isn't it kind of brilliant that they've marketed the game as pc melting, super fidelity, push your PC to the limits because the people with money to burn are EXACTLY the people who enjoy building monster rigs and showing off the latest tech on them. Money to spend on pc components, money to spend on JPEGs. It's really very, very clever.
Remember Derek saying for some time now that they can't build a decent 3.0 build that will be ready to put out there and that they will keep on delaying it and delaying it? Are you willing to state here that Derek was right? That in fact CIG have been delaying and delaying and delaying the 3.0 build. Never mind the reason(s) for it, Derek predicted 3.0 not being read for release any time soon despite the schedules. Was he right?
The issue is that CIG is routinely and consistently LYING to backers about the TRUE state of the project. If they were telling the truth, aside from the alarm that it would cause, there is a very good chance that even their most hardcore supporters would likely have bailed (as so many already have) by now.
[/quote]
Let's ignore the "promises vs goal" bullshit semantics those guys are using to defend what he said, the FACT is that, now, EIGHT months later, 3.0 is NOWHERE near ready. So what led Chris to believe - in Aug 19 2016 - that 3.0 was anywhere near ready to release +4 months later? How is it that, we're back at GamesCom and ONE YEAR later, that very same 3.0 is incomplete and nowhere release?
That wasn't my quote :smuggo: But never mind, I agree with Derek's answer :D
I don't know why Derek removed the charts
...they are not going to get a working game...
What is has to do with FUD, I don't know. I don't have any Fear or Uncertainty that Star Citizen is a Disaster.
I'm still awaiting an answer from Serendipity though, about Derek being right on the 3.0 delays.
I look back and see myself being blind to all these facts and thought the same way the faithful backers are like now but i took some time to come to my senses
I don't know why Derek removed the charts, but the poll itself is here (https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdSMo9rzkW1GGZa14wBmFJql4Z2-CcLf5QPSaFbSETH1iWxsw/viewform) and all the results are here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11ME0w7TGxz7KeTfyxlI8YxH564RZFONQZNqz-JCqsx0/edit#gid=243923190). So you can make your own charts. That the responses do not represent the whole of the SC community goes without saying.
Still, it clearly shows that there still are a number of utterly stupid people who don't (want to) realise that they're only wasting their money. Wasting as in, they are not going to get a working game for all the money they're spending. I really am worried about what some of those huge spenders might do after CIG collapses and their thousands and thousands of dollars are gone.
On the other hand, if somebody at this moment still buys stuff from CIG, maybe they deserve it. If you clearly don't want to listen, you just have to feel.
What is has to do with FUD, I don't know. I don't have any Fear or Uncertainty that Star Citizen is a Disaster.
Quote
I don't know why Derek removed the charts
I told you. It's because they don't support his narrative. If half of 7k backers are willing to spend more money on ships, in itself more than 2k, then how many of 1.8 million forum accounts are willing to spend more money on ships?
This is an interesting Reddit thread talking about Derek's sources: https://www.reddit.com/r/DerekSmart/comments/6roc1t/a_user_on_gamestar_reveals_that_derek_does_not/
Makes you think huh?
While it seems impressive that they finished 7 tasks, keep in mind that
- 3 of those tasks still need bug fixing, which is really more obfuscation on how things are progressing.
- 3 More of those tasks were cosmetic fluff changes they added just a few weeks ago (and still managed to delay).
- 2 of those tasks had ETAs listed as June 9th. They were forgotten about for 2 months. So it's hard to say if they were completed 2 months ago or just recently.
- 1 of these (volumetric fog) was a feature that should've been easily ported over from lumberyard.
As mentioned in Around the Verse, as the majority of 3.0’s new features are now completed, we have shifted focus to feature/content integration, optimization and bug fixing. Aside from updating the few remaining outstanding features that are being developed, we’re adding a new section that will describe some of the major blocker bugs that have occurred over the past week, a detailed list of the bugs that were resolved, and a burndown report that will feature overall tracking of remaining bugs.
Completed: 7
Delayed: 3
Regressed: 2
Remaining: 9 (was 13)
Needs bug-fixing: 17 (was 14)
Total In-progress: 26 (was 30)
Furthest ETA: TBD or Aug 16th
- INVENTORY SYSTEM SUPPORT (Needs bug fixing)
- INVENTORY SYSTEM (Code Complete. Bug fixing to follow)
- MISSION BOARD APP (Feature Complete. Bug fixing in progress)
- VOLUMETRIC FOG
- RSI AURORA
- APOCALYPSE ARMS SCOURGE RAIL GUN
- GEMINI L86 PISTOL
- ENTITY OWNER MANAGER - ETA is 11th August
Reason: LA Engineering identified further additional tasks needed to support persistence and netcode.
- CHARACTER CUSTOMIZATION - Still TBD
- SHIP SELECTOR APP & INSURANCE CLAIM - ETA is 11th August (was 3rd August)
Reason: Code is complete and now needs final hookup. Unfortunately, this has been delayed due to supporting bug fixing on the Arena Commander Loadout and Personal Manager. We need to have these features in a better state before too much progress is made on Vehicle customization. Otherwise, we would run the risk of having even more bugs to fix later.
- PLAYER MANNED TURRETS (No ETA)
- MISSION BOARD APP
- MISSION GIVERS
- ENTITY OWNER MANAGER
- CHARACTER CUSTOMIZATION
- VEHICLE CUSTOMIZER APP
- SHIP SELECTOR APP & INSURANCE CLAIM
- COMMS SYSTEM UI
- MISSION SYSTEM
- RENDER TO TEXTURE
- PLAYER MANNED TURRETS
- INVENTORY SYSTEM SUPPORT
- INVENTORY SYSTEM
- ITEM 2.0 SHIP CONVERSION – PART 2
- INSURANCE
- DOORS AND AIRLOCKS
- CARGO
- CARGO MANIFEST APP
- KIOSK SUPPORT
- REPAIR
- HINT SYSTEM
- PERSONAL MANAGER APP
- MISSION MANAGER APP
- MISSION BOARD APP
- PHYSICS SERIALIZATION
- DRAKE DRAGONFLY
- RSI CONSTELLATION AQUILLA
- MISC PROSPECTOR
USER EXPERIENCE POLISH PASS :
Improvement of our overall framerate
We have decided to spend time increasing performance on the client and server side.
Player Count & General Stability
Currently, performance and stability drop sharply once the active players in a server reach 12-15 players.
Cockpit Experience
The Cockpit Experience sprint team is focused on improving the overall player experience in the cockpit through adjustments to cockpit geo, character placement, g-force/hit reactions, VFX, Audio, UI, and code support for things like camera shaking and hooking into ship health systems to display proper damage.
Space Landscaping
We are working on some extra Graphics code for the GPU particle system to support the creation of new VFX to implement space dust at points around Stanton. This will continue to be iterated on to create some more elaborate assets.
Basic Ship Security
With the gameplay we’re adding in to 3.0.0, we’re conscious that there may be some other players that would love to kill you and take your ship. To help prevent this, we wanted to implement some basic security that will allow you to lock the ship, so only you have the ability to pass freely through its doors.
Rotating and Orbiting Planets
We are very keen to make the Stanton map feel more organic as a real environment and having the planets rotate and orbit will really help with this.
This will also introduce a proper day/night cycle when you’re on a planet surface which in turn opens up further gameplay possibilities.
Player Interaction System – User Experience Improvements
We’re want to give players the ability to more intuitively interact with items and objects within the game, but also find ways to indicate to the player what type of interaction they would be performing (pick up, start conversation, push button, etc).
Race Tracks on Planets
To give our planetary environments extra points of interest, and also an excuse to drive ground-based vehicles around at high speed, we thought the best way to do this was to build some rudimentary race tracks on the planets that would have been previously used by the research teams as a way to blow off steam and have fun.
Remember Derek saying for some time now that they can't build a decent 3.0 build that will be ready to put out there and that they will keep on delaying it and delaying it? Are you willing to state here that Derek was right? That in fact CIG has been delaying and delaying and delaying the 3.0 build. Never mind the reason(s) for it, Derek predicted 3.0 not being ready for release any time soon despite the schedules. Was he right?
Derek might have sources within CIG, I don't know, but asking how someone managed to predict that CIG, known for missing their estimated release dates, would miss an estimated release date isn't exactly Nobel prize level thinking is it? Especially with something as technologically difficult as 3.0 and knowing the caveats from the schedule report that often get completely ignored around here. It's almost like you lot deliberately forget they're there for some reason...
Remember Derek saying for some time now that they can't build a decent 3.0 build that will be ready to put out there and that they will keep on delaying it and delaying it? Are you willing to state here that Derek was right? That in fact CIG has been delaying and delaying and delaying the 3.0 build. Never mind the reason(s) for it, Derek predicted 3.0 not being read for release any time soon despite the schedules. Was he right?Derek might have sources within CIG, I don't know, but asking how someone managed to predict that CIG, known for missing their estimated release dates, would miss an estimated release date isn't exactly Nobel prize level thinking is it? Especially with something as technologically difficult as 3.0 and knowing the caveats from the schedule report that often get completely ignored around here. It's almost like you lot deliberately forget they're there for some reason...
So, you're not willing to admit that Derek was right. Your argument being that since CIG basically always misses their release dates, not to mention that those are "estimated" release dates so they can do with them whatever they want (why give them in the first place?), therefore predicting they miss a schedule isn't that difficult. Okay...
Let's try it again. Derek has been predicting for quite some time now that 3.0 is nowhere near a state that it is ready to be released nor that it will be on short term. That at least contradicts the words from Chris but hey, never mind. Now, what do you think is a proper timeframe to confirm Derek was right? How much extra time would it take for CIG not to release 3.0 for you to confirm that Derek was right about the state of 3.0? Another 2 months? 4 months? 6 months? If I give an estimated release date of June and that date steadily moves backwards now into September, maybe that is to be expected. But at what point at still not releasing 3.0 is it clear that Chris was talking out of his ass? What do you think? Or are you willing to say that no matter how much further delays on 3.0, that still doesn't prove Derek right with him saying that 3.0 is nowhere near to be released?
And, Derek predicts that the 3.0 build is still so crappy that that's why they haven't released it yet. They don't want to repeat the disaster that was the 2.0 / 2.5 release. But, in the end, they have to put 3.0 out there. Are you willing to agree now that if the 3.0 is as crappy as shit when it's being released, that Derek was right about that? Or are you going to use the excuse that no matter how long and hard they worked on the 3.0 build (see all the schedule updates and the AtV's et cetera for that, now more than a year since Chris said they were working on it) that is because they are doing things nobody has done before? If so, when will they deliver something that actually works? With 4.0? With 5.0? At what point would you stop saying "there trying to" and start saying "they can't"? 2018? 2019? 2020? How much time are you willing to give Chris to put out a decent enough build to go from alpha to beta? Despite his promises made when starting this project.
Other than CIG collapsing and filing for bankruptcy, something that obviously would proof Derek right, what would it take for you to admit Derek was right? Please tell me, I'm really curious.
Derek was wrong about LoD's release date. By 5 years and counting. It doesn't make him a scumbag liar. I'm sure I've covered this before.
The money isn't running out anytime soon or they would have released more by now in a panic.Since you keep bringing up observations and conclusions which are completely unrelated to Star Citizen (such as pointing to LoD’s delays/shortcomings/problems when discussing Star Citizen’s delays/shortcomings/problems) – actually deflection has to be one of your most used (and most obvious) rhetorics in this forum – I’ll make an exception for once and will do this too.
Derek was wrong about LoD's release date. By 5 years and counting. It doesn't make him a scumbag liar. I'm sure I've covered this before.
Star Citizen 3.0. The journey.
(http://i.imgur.com/sp2KqjY.gif)
How the game's are funded is irrelevant. Who's making the games is irrelevant. What kind of games they are is irrelevant.
I'm not comparing development of LoD and SC.Before going on to compare the development of the 2 games.
Is that simple enough now?
Before going on to compare the development of the 2 games.Yes, it’s awful.
Please can we stop with this nonsense. IF Derek's game stops development tomorrow then he's accountable only to himself - nobody else is affected. IF Star Citizen stops development tomorrow then thousands of people will lose money.
Please stop trying to compare the 2 games - we know you're only doing it to try and wind up Derek.
How the game's are funded is irrelevant. Who's making the games is irrelevant. What kind of games they are is irrelevant.
That's where you're wrong kiddo. Analogies are my preferred way to explain a point so I'm gonna use an analogy.
Person A: Offers to build a bridge and asks for people for funding to build it - in return they get to use the bridge. Over time the bridge becomes ever-more complex and is still unrecognizable as a bridge years into the project.
Person B: Has a bit of private land and set themselves a personal target to build a bridge on their own land.
Serendipity you said:I'm not comparing development of LoD and SC.Before going on to compare the development of the 2 games.
Please can we stop with this nonsense. IF Derek's game stops development tomorrow then he's accountable only to himself - nobody else is affected. IF Star Citizen stops development tomorrow then thousands of people will lose money.
Please stop trying to compare the 2 games - we know you're only doing it to try and wind up Derek.
Before going on to compare the development of the 2 games.Yes, it’s awful.
Please can we stop with this nonsense. IF Derek's game stops development tomorrow then he's accountable only to himself - nobody else is affected. IF Star Citizen stops development tomorrow then thousands of people will lose money.
Please stop trying to compare the 2 games - we know you're only doing it to try and wind up Derek.
90% of the argument goes like, „Chris’ shoelaces are open“ – „No, one of them still holds together a bit. But Derek’s fly is open.“
On Reddit someone asked about something when it would be finished. One of the replies:
Not Soon. CR doesn't want to set a bad precedent by finishing something.
Even his fans are taking the piss :dance:
On Reddit someone asked about something when it would be finished. One of the replies:
Not Soon. CR doesn't want to set a bad precedent by finishing something.
Just another step in converting CIG to CIM...
However, in that Reddit now discussions start about the financial state of CIG. There is some nervousness starting amongst the Shitizens. About time, one would say. Derek has been on it for quite some time now...
Top 5 generated 20k referrals @ € 45 makes 900k. And it didn't cost CIG one dime...
Hey, everyone. I've been a lurker in here for some time and have enjoyed the discussion.
Here's a question for Derek: Most of the concern about the project in here has been about money and whether CIG can maintain the pace of funding for their large staff and its monthly burn rate. Aside from that, I've read interviews with lead designers on other AAA projects and most of them have said that keeping any big project to a 3-4 year cycle is key. Going much past that it becomes difficult to keep pushing the team to do great work. People lose focus, get burned out and turnover becomes more and more of an issue.
Do you agree with this and do you think the extended time in development on SC and all the pressures associated with that are impacting them?
You have stated that you expect to have an Alpha up and going in about 12 months, with a beta roughly 10 months after that and then launch. For a game of this size and scope, do you think you can really be done in the next two years?
Really it is all about constant iteration from launch. The whole idea is to be constantly updating. It isn’t like the old days where you had to have everything and the kitchen sink in at launch because you weren’t going to come back to it for awhile. We’re already one year in - another two years puts us at 3 total which is ideal. Any more and things would begin to get stale.
Even Chris himself posited about this back on Oct 19, 2012 (https://web.archive.org/web/20170320041806/http://themittani.com/features/exclusive-interview-star-citizens-chris-roberts)
Even Chris himself posited about this back on Oct 19, 2012 (https://web.archive.org/web/20170320041806/http://themittani.com/features/exclusive-interview-star-citizens-chris-roberts)
I think anyone thinking of investing in SC should be required to read this interview and then ask themselves if there is anything about it that has come true. Clearly CRoberts was just talking out his ass the whole time and had no real plan to do any of it. And it set the stage for all the BS that has come about since then.
Clearly CRoberts was just talking out his ass the whole time and had no real plan to do any of it.Honestly, I doubt that. I do think that Chris actually was planning on building the game he envisioned. The positive response most likely overwhelmed him and the sheer volume of money being given made him think it was doable too. If you just throw enough money at something, it always succeeds, right? And from there on, it went wrong. Simply because Chris isn't the man to do this. He is utterly incapable. If he had had a second in command that actually would have been able (and allowed) to bring him back to earth constantly, it might have worked. But rather, he chose his wife to give all that money to.
Clearly CRoberts was just talking out his ass the whole time and had no real plan to do any of it.Honestly, I doubt that. I do think that Chris actually was planning on building the game he envisioned. The positive response most likely overwhelmed him and the sheer volume of money being given made him think it was doable too. If you just throw enough money at something, it always succeeds, right? And from there on, it went wrong. Simply because Chris isn't the man to do this. He is utterly incapable. If he had had a second in command that actually would have been able (and allowed) to bring him back to earth constantly, it might have worked. But rather, he chose his wife to give all that money to.
Now, at some point Chris realised he was fucked. Can't stop due to legal ramifications, so need to continue in hope of finishing something and not violating any Kickstarter rules or consumer laws. And that's where it's going wrong now.
Clearly CRoberts was just talking out his ass the whole time and had no real plan to do any of it.Honestly, I doubt that. I do think that Chris actually was planning on building the game he envisioned. The positive response most likely overwhelmed him and the sheer volume of money being given made him think it was doable too. If you just throw enough money at something, it always succeeds, right? And from there on, it went wrong. Simply because Chris isn't the man to do this. He is utterly incapable. If he had had a second in command that actually would have been able (and allowed) to bring him back to earth constantly, it might have worked. But rather, he chose his wife to give all that money to.
Now, at some point Chris realised he was fucked. Can't stop due to legal ramifications, so need to continue in hope of finishing something and not violating any Kickstarter rules or consumer laws. And that's where it's going wrong now.
Clearly CRoberts was just talking out his ass the whole time and had no real plan to do any of it.Honestly, I doubt that. I do think that Chris actually was planning on building the game he envisioned. The positive response most likely overwhelmed him and the sheer volume of money being given made him think it was doable too. If you just throw enough money at something, it always succeeds, right? And from there on, it went wrong. Simply because Chris isn't the man to do this. He is utterly incapable. If he had had a second in command that actually would have been able (and allowed) to bring him back to earth constantly, it might have worked. But rather, he chose his wife to give all that money to.
Now, at some point Chris realised he was fucked. Can't stop due to legal ramifications, so need to continue in hope of finishing something and not violating any Kickstarter rules or consumer laws. And that's where it's going wrong now.
Even if this was the case, he could have built the kickstarter ++ then used the rest of the cash to pretty much start again and build the better bigger game.
https://twitter.com/DennisACrow/status/894270847560499200 (https://twitter.com/DennisACrow/status/894270847560499200)
So Dennis Crow (https://www.linkedin.com/in/dcrow/) who used to work for TT Fusion (where Erin Roberts used to work), has joined the LA studio as a snr producer. His last credits at TT Fusion was as online producer for Lego Star Wars (https://www.igdb.com/games/lego-star-wars-the-force-awakens/credits).
He is a snr producer who doesn't do anything with game design or things like that. He just manages the direction of certain aspects of the development in terms of schedules, teams etc.
The question backers should be asking is why they need another producer in LA.
According to LinkedIn, he left Rockstar back in 2015 to found his own company, AWOL Game (http://www.awolgame.com), which is now defunct. That doesn't seem to have worked out so well, so he joined CIG to go make Star Citizen. I don't think it's fair to knock the guy, a paycheck for a few months, is still a pay check.
(http://i.imgur.com/qGWgDop.png) (https://www.igdb.com/people/dennis-crow/gameography)
This normally wouldn't be important, except for the fact that backers seem to think this is somehow a big deal (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6s0z4m/dennis_crow_joins_the_team_as_senior_producer/).
But, hey, at least the backers got to see a nice pic of what their money’s been spent on ::cough cough:: $10,000 door ::cough cough:: :doh:
Dear god, you're stupid :doh:is name calling and I've been banned for less. Stop being mean you meanie. Also, I'm not stupid.
BTW, that's the second time you didn't answer my question. Please complete the following sentence at the dots:
I, Serendipity, will say that Derek was right when...............
Is that simple enough now?
This guy isn’t taking control of anything. If he hadn’t tweeted about it no one would ever have known he worked there.
But, hey, at least the backers got to see a nice pic of what their money’s been spent on ::cough cough:: $10,000 door ::cough cough:: :doh:
I will admit he's right about the big predictions, (meaning his constant bleating about being out of money and that the game can't be made), when CIG collapse and disappear without releasing 2 games that resemble what they've laid out they're making.
I bet the coffee machine, they couldn't possibly have rented (http://www.nationwidecoffee.co.uk), cost them 20k as well huh?
I will admit he's right about the big predictions, (meaning his constant bleating about being out of money and that the game can't be made), when CIG collapse and disappear without releasing 2 games that resemble what they've laid out they're making.
Ah, so when CIG finally has collapsed, you will admit that Derek was right. I think that when CIG collapses, you'll have to come up with some pretty good arguments to still keep on insisting that Dereks was wrong anyhow.
However, the thing is, Derek has been / is predicting several things that are a clear indication that something was / is wrong, predicting things that indicate that it's getting worse and worse and predicting that it all will accumulate and accumulate until CIG collapses. So, you're willing to admit that he was right when that actually happens. That also means that Derek was right about everything before that moment, at least for the big predictions. Basically, all the things that let up to that final event of CIG collapsing. But to those things you won't admit he was right. And you're wondering why I think you're stupid? Man, you're just proving my point here. Again.
I bet the coffee machine, they couldn't possibly have rented (http://www.nationwidecoffee.co.uk), cost them 20k as well huh?
Damn, dude, I must have struck a nerve there, huh? Whatever the door cost, or the fancy desks and tables and mo-cap stages, etc., etc. Bottom line is that CIG loves touting their fancy offices, but yet still can't deliver a game after 5 years. Why is this? If I was a backer (I'm not, btw) I would be sickened by the self enrichment and conceit coming from a company that hasn't delivered on any of the promises made to amass people's money in the first place.
Cost of the doors are actually estimated about 20K. (http://gameranx.com/updates/id/73286/article/the-building-controversy-of-star-citizen/) Looks fancy though, only for the money of 500 pledgers at the most bottom level
Yeah, I know. But when CIG collapses, it'll prove everything right. You know, the things other people can see as well by looking at the facts. Not just by sheeping after Derek. Basically, the not so stupid people.
Although, to be fair, it's difficult knowing when Derek is being serious anyway what with flawed analytics, missing information, hyperbole, lies, fake sources trolling or being trolled...which stuff do I even believe anymore? It's hard keeping up.
Although, to be fair, it's difficult knowing when Derek is being serious anyway what with flawed analytics, missing information, hyperbole, lies, fake sources trolling or being trolled...which stuff do I even believe anymore? It's hard keeping up.
All of these accusations could be aimed at CRoberts as well. Lying, misinformation, deliberately unrealistic timetables, etc. Why do you omit that?
The difference is, CRoberts has an obvious motivation (bringing in more $ that he claims he doesn't need), which makes his activities in this regard much more insidious than anything Derek has done.
Although, to be fair, it's difficult knowing when Derek is being serious anyway what with flawed analytics, missing information, hyperbole, lies, fake sources trolling or being trolled...which stuff do I even believe anymore? It's hard keeping up.
All of these accusations could be aimed at CRoberts as well. Lying, misinformation, deliberately unrealistic timetables, etc. Why do you omit that?
The difference is, CRoberts has an obvious motivation (bringing in more $ that he claims he doesn't need), which makes his activities in this regard much more insidious than anything Derek has done.
We've been through this. When a developer says they hope to do X or y, (release 3.0 in December or release LoD in 2012), and it doesn't happen, it doesn't mean they lied. Chris believes he can do what he's said he can do. 3.0 release will provide a nice chunk of evidence that he can.
Derek has guaranteed something that turned out to just be 'hyperbole'. Chris hasn't guaranteed anything.
You just can't possibly entertain the chance of them getting a couple of decent games out.
Wow.. Just, Wow. You're level of gullibility and delusion knows no bounds.
There's a thing in the world called Critical Thinking. It involves analyzing evidence and patterns to determine the truth. There is no proof positive of it, but anyone that has been paying attention over the last several years would have to believe that Chris has lied and wildly exaggerated over the years to generate hype and income for CIG. Unless, of course, like you, they just don't want to see it.
You just can't possibly entertain the chance of them getting a couple of decent games out.
Yes, I can. That chance is zero. It will not happen. Ever. The change that I live long enough to actually witness the whole universe implode again even is higher.
Derek has been right before now about some little, inconsequential things. I will admit he's right about the big predictions, (meaning his constant bleating about being out of money and that the game can't be made), when CIG collapse and disappear without releasing 2 games that resemble what they've laid out they're making.
Now we could start discussing how he used 'current tech' 'as pitched' and 'unless they have money, time and expertise' as get out clauses but that's not really worth it. He'll claim he was right whatever happens.
They release a great pair of games that are critically acclaimed and sell well, it's not technology from 2015 and they managed to scrape together the tech to make it work but it's all smoke and mirrors...
They release a pair of games without some minor feature and it's not 'as pitched'.
The only way I'll admit Derek was right, and I'm talking about the big predictions, not the name of a secret ship or some staff leaving or whatever, is when CIG collapse through financial mismanagement or the games they make are an anorexic shadow of what has been described. Until then, he's being made to look more and more wrong every day they don't collapse. Those damn analytics! If only they weren't open to being skewed by hyperbole...
I'm really looking forward to reading his Gamescom predictions. Hopefully he doesn't release them too early and allow CIG to change it all to spite him again.
Since the Big Bang, the universe is expanding. It is likely that that expansion will come to a halt, and after that the universe will shrink again until the absolute nothing and then the cycle starts all over with a big bang. I'm working on a schedule, but their might be some delays. You know, since this is a whole new uncharted terriroty that noone ever has done before and all. However, me living long enough to actually see that implosion/explosion has a higher probabilty than Chris Roberts living up to delivering his pitched game.
And that funding chart is complete bogus. If you think that they actually generate that kind of money month after month after month after month for several years in a row now, wiht almost nothing to show for, you must be stupid. Oh wait, we already knew that.
Although, to be fair, it's difficult knowing when Derek is being serious anyway what with flawed analytics, missing information, hyperbole, lies, fake sources trolling or being trolled...which stuff do I even believe anymore? It's hard keeping up.
We've been through this. When a developer says they hope to do X or y, (release 3.0 in December or release LoD in 2012), and it doesn't happen, it doesn't mean they lied. Chris believes he can do what he's said he can do. 3.0 release will provide a nice chunk of evidence that he can.
Derek has guaranteed something that turned out to just be 'hyperbole'. Chris hasn't guaranteed anything.
First off, if you think they haven't been getting that level of funding year on year would you mind explaining to me how they're keeping 5 studios open and paying the wages of over 400 people?
Now which of us is appearing stupid do you think? If your answer is still me then you're doing that thinking thing wrong...again.
Although, to be fair, it's difficult knowing when Derek is being serious anyway what with flawed analytics, missing information, hyperbole, lies, fake sources trolling or being trolled...which stuff do I even believe anymore? It's hard keeping up.
Surprisingly, that's how that works out here in the real world where dreams come to die. Being in denial about the confirmed and on-going factual issues, doesn't change them as facts. How you choose to regard them is entirely up to you. That's why we have anti-vaxers, flat earthers, scientologists etc. You can't convince some people of things they believe in, and nothing you do, write, or say, is going to change that.
Not true. Nothing has zero percent chance of occuring
Does it feel bad that funding is up this year or does that mean imminent collapse now too?
First off, if you think they haven't been getting that level of funding year on year would you mind explaining to me how they're keeping 5 studios open and paying the wages of over 400 people?
Now which of us is appearing stupid do you think? If your answer is still me then you're doing that thinking thing wrong...again.
Answer to Question 1: Uhm, investors that we don't now about? Bankloans? Who knows where they got the money. I think they've ran out and that's about to come out.
Answer to Question 2: I still think you are stupid and I'm not thinking wrong.
ps: Please show me the metrics where it says funding is up this year
Again with calling me stupid, still not banned. I hope your name calling has at least earned a warning by now, otherwise some might think this forum is showing favouritism.
Metrics? I went to the pledge watch page, took the total pledge amounts from 1/1/16 to 1/8/16 and 1/1/17 to 1/8/17 and did a thing called 'subtraction'.
Feel free to metric the holy hell outta that page, the one that isn't accurate but is when applied to your own narratives, yourself.
Sorry, calendar year. From the first day of this year. Commonly known as...this year.
Sorry, calendar year. From the first day of this year. Commonly known as...this year.
Go learn what these mean, and come back: YoY, YTD
Since the Big Bang, the universe is expanding. It is likely that that expansion will come to a halt, and after that the universe will shrink again until the absolute nothing and then the cycle starts all over with a big bang. I'm working on a schedule, but their might be some delays. You know, since this is a whole new uncharted terriroty that noone ever has done before and all. However, me living long enough to actually see that implosion/explosion has a higher probabilty than Chris Roberts living up to delivering his pitched game.
Second, your theoretical physics knowledge is about 20 years out of date I'm afraid. The universal expansion is speeding up, not slowing down. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_expansion_of_space) This means there will not be a 'big crunch' in the future.
Even if there was to be a universal contraction back to the singularity it's certainly not an implosion. The big bang wasn't an explosion. It's a contraction and an expansion. Big difference. An explosion must be exploding into something you see, that's the 'ex' part of the word. The big bang created space itself so no, not an explosion and definitely not an implosion in reverse.
Man, you're stupid.
Man, you're stupid.
Oh, thank you. I'm having a laugh with that one you have no idea :laugh:
I'm really questioning myself why I advised to keep on having Serendipity around. Not my finest moment in hindsight...
Why someone actually would think he is bitchslapping us around overhere, it's beyond me. Way, way beyond me.
At that moment in time, the ultimate "Derek Smart Was Right" mantra is going to be that, since July 2015 Chris they had overscoped the game in Nov 2014 @ $65M, I had said the game, as pitched, could never be built.
At that moment in time, the ultimate "Derek Smart Was Right" mantra is going to be that, since July 2015 Chris they had overscoped the game in Nov 2014 @ $65M, I had said the game, as pitched, could never be built.
Missed this reply earlier, good read. The bit I've quoted is the important bit, the rest is just fluff and bluster, this bit here, this is exactly what I just said. At the moment in time it collapses, that is when I will say Derek Smart was right.
Edit: Happily say it at that. I'm not stupid enough to not accept when I'm proven wrong.
You know, this is why I really need to write a specific article about all the things I've been right or wrong about, because this argument is getting so old. And that's only because you guys are in complete denial. I have been right about a LOT of very important things. Just off the top of my head:
- they don't have the tech to build the game // they switched to LY
- they would need $150M+ to build the game he pitched // we're at $156M, and no game. Plus that makes it $91M over budget already
- they have to give refunds, so just ignore the ToS nonsense // see the StreetRoller debacle that got the ball rolling
- having missed the 18 month delay period, they will change the ToS to restrict backer rights // I saw this one coming a mile away (http://dereksmart.com/forums/topic/star-citizen-tos/) when noone else did.
- SQ42 is coming out in2015,2016, 2017
- they have to give a dev schedule to appease backers // like the refund issue, this one cost me attorney fees. Ortwin blew me off. they started doing dev scheduled a year later
- CitizenCon 2016 was a "con" and The Worm wasn't real // this one was hilarious because all the time we were on Discord during the show, and I was saying it, even some Goons didn't believe me. Then later CIG copped to it being R&D. And they did a Road To CitizenCon video amid backer outrage
- 3.0 was a pipedream, didn't exist, and most certainly wasn't coming out in Dec 2016 // I loved the part where Shitizens realized that the 3.0 they were pitched isn't the one that appeared in the April 2017 dev schedule
...and that's just off the top of my head.
Not to mention all the exec and nepotism related things ranging from Chris and the Veep of marketing actually being married, to Sandi lying about her creds, shooting private movies on company property, the myriad of shell corps associated with the project etc
But don't tell Shitizens this though because the first thing they will point out is ---> "you said they would collapse in 90 days, they're still here" and "you said Star Marine wasn't in 2.6" <--- and that hilarity never gets old because it's as absurd as this whole scam.
Ultimately there isn't is a shred of doubt in MY mind that the project is FUBAR and that's going to collapse sooner rather than later. The only question is when that will be, and what form it will take. At that moment in time, the ultimate "Derek Smart Was Right" mantra is going to be that, since July 2015 Chris they had overscoped the game in Nov 2014 @ $65M, I had said the game, as pitched, could never be built.
At the moment in time it collapses, that is when I will say Derek Smart was right.
Edit: Happily say it at that. I'm not stupid enough to not accept when I'm proven wrong.
So, you're willing to admit that he was right when that actually happens. That also means that Derek was right about everything before that moment, at least for the big predictions. Basically, all the things that let up to that final event of CIG collapsing. But to those things you won't admit he was right. And you're wondering why I think you're stupid? Man, you're just proving my point here. Again.
At the moment in time it collapses, that is when I will say Derek Smart was right.
Edit: Happily say it at that. I'm not stupid enough to not accept when I'm proven wrong.
That's the spirit :dance:
But, when (yes, when, not if) CIG collapses, why doesn't that prove Derek right on all the things that have led up to that event? CIG doesn't collapse overnight, it's a proces. There are a number of things happening and signs to be seen that clearly indicate that he is right. Why do you choose not to acknowlegde that?
Example: we have no idea how their financials are because they don't share them (which BTW, Chris said he would share them). The only information is a funding tracker on their website. Why would that tracker be accurate? Because they say so? Even when it's obvious that showing dwindling numbers would be devastating to the project.
It's strange that when we have several arguments why there are a number of signals that indicate there are things financially wrong, your only counterargument is "well, on their website they say they have collected over 155m" so everything is fine.
I can imagine someone wanting to see this project work, and I even can understand someone trying to look rather positively than negatively, but how can you justify/not see all the things happening?
See, I'm not so sure Derek ending up being right about the game being impossible to make, makes him automatically right about the, rather large, predictions of money laundering, racist hiring practices, office bullying and financial fraud. One does not begat any of the others.
How about claiming Sandi worked as an escort and starred in porn films whilst dreaming about deposing her in French, villifying staff members for various reasons and the naming of his 'moles'?
Seems I may have misremembered some of the stuff I've read over the years. I blame Reddit. Apologies.
Ha ha, yeah, my Dutch is obviously nonexistent. Fair enough on using explosion. Love your country, both jazz festivals and stag weekends have entertained me thoroughly before now. The idea the universe is increasing its expansion isn't my theory. I think it is pretty well accepted by much better minds than mine. Feel free to use that in a quote to call me stupid again.
When Chris Roberts lies to you over 3.0 releasing in 2016 you declare it a "hope".
I see things differently to you. That's about all there is to it. Me and hundreds of thousands of other people, not all insane or stupid, think the same.
I see things differently to you. That's about all there is to it. Me and hundreds of thousands of other people, not all insane or stupid, think the same.
"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it. Truth stands, even if there be no public support. It is self sustained.” -Mahatma Gandhi
And there are many that see differently than you. The question that you need to answer is, "Are you looking for the Truth, or are trying to build walls to shade lies that you are deeply invested in, from the Truth?"
Ha ha, yeah, my Dutch is obviously nonexistent. Fair enough on using explosion. Love your country, both jazz festivals and stag weekends have entertained me thoroughly before now. The idea the universe is increasing its expansion isn't my theory. I think it is pretty well accepted by much better minds than mine. Feel free to use that in a quote to call me stupid again.
You will accept the expertise of physicists but when it comes to Star Citizen you think you know better than a highly experienced Game Developer.
When Chris Roberts lies to you over 3.0 releasing in 2016 you declare it a "hope".
If nobody ever tried to innovate we'd still be driving wooden carts with horses.
We're all having fun aren't we?
If nobody ever tried to innovate we'd still be driving wooden carts with horses.
I think we've covered this before: You're implying that Star Citizen is being innovative but exactly what innovation is Star Citizen doing?
I will grant you that when they first started talking about planetary tech in an open universe it was pretty ahead of its time but since then they've failed to deliver anything meaningful. It's great having an idea and a dream but it's meaningless unless you can deliver. CIG has taken so long to deliver anything that other games have implemented the technology with far more success.
We're all having fun aren't we?
WE certainly do. But then again, many of us are neither whales nor cultists.
How it must feel for some who is heavily invested in the game to assure himself every morning that everything will turn out fine in the end – this I don’t know :shrug:
(https://i.imgflip.com/1tv3sd.jpg)
A game that looks beautiful and I can go from FPS to ship to station, walk around in station, get back in my ship, fly seamlessly to a planetary body and land, do more on foot stuff, PvP or PvE, rinse and repeat.
That's what is new. The whole caboodle, nothing in and of itself but the glorious whole.
I really do hope that the forum's engine has some maximum allowed posts, like 150 so we don't have to read more of Serendipity boring arguments.
I remember the time when I receieved an email that this thread had a new post, and it was something funny/interesting/new information. Now it's a thread for Serendipity's rambling.
Sad.
Although it is nice to hear a different opinion occasionally.
Although it is nice to hear a different opinion occasionally.
I disagree :D
I came back from a 1 month holiday, and saw that there are 10+pages on the thread. I was so happy that there are so many things to read, but there were like 5 decent posts.You too? I was away for only one week recently, and it took me two evenings to catch up! :yikes:
Serendipity says he believes everything Chris says and you can't prove he's lying.
This is not a debate because Serendipity never provides any evidence for why he believes CIG and CRoberts are trustworthy in the face of all the evidence to the contrary. He simply states that his opinion is he believes them and will patiently wait for the game.
That's all well and good, but there's really nothing more to be debated there.
It might take more time than expected and they may move around exactly what's included but we get it.
Any evidence they can't do what they say they can?
What more evidence do you require?
Any evidence they can't do what they say they can?
https://starcitizentracker.github.io/ (https://starcitizentracker.github.io/)
Um, it's taken them nearly 5 years, 4 studios and $150 million to get to 16% of what they originally promised.
What more evidence do you require?
It might take more time than expected and they may move around exactly what's included but we get it.
You can't be serious with this. Every SC release (including the gutted 3.0) sounds like this.
Hey I will give you a camera which has HD, USB connection, and 60fps. You will get it at the end of 2016.
1 year later: Sorry for the delay, here is your camera, it is not what we said it would be, it has no HD, no USB connection, and the framerate is only 24fps, but here it is. It was a really big work with new hightech innovations, so you should be happy for your 24fps.
Any evidence they can't do what they say they can?
https://starcitizentracker.github.io/ (https://starcitizentracker.github.io/)
Um, it's taken them nearly 5 years, 4 studios and $150 million to get to 16% of what they originally promised.
What more evidence do you require?
Nope. The fact they haven't done it yet is not evidence they can't do it. It took human beings a couple hundred thousand years to make a flying machine.
Any evidence they can't do what they say they can?
The fact they haven't done it yet is not evidence they can't do it.This isn't logic, it's faith.
Sorry, english is my second language, but is "Serenstupidity" a word? Just wondering...
The game as is now is not much different than what it was 2 years ago, and 3.0 won't do shit either. So many features are lacking, it won't even be a good milestone to say: "You see, we have all the core systems we need to complete the game". It will be just another failed patch.
Comparing this project to the Wright brothers is just GOLD. But if you insist, could you please list ALL the projects that were said it could not be done, and as it turned out, it really wasn't possible at that time? I think we remember the Wright brothers (and other big achievers) because they succeeded. Millions failed in the meantime.
Chris Roberts is failing also (for 20 years in a row). They have not delivered (and nor planning to in the near future) ANYTHING, that could be considered special.
Any evidence they can't do what they say they can?
There is plenty of evidence that they can't deliver on their promises. Their record of broken promises and missed deadlines, rolled-back or just thrown-out features has been covered over and over here by Derek and others.
To me (yes, just my opinion), this makes any future promises they make untrustworthy and their motivations for making promises extremely suspect. They have proven that they can't deliver on the promises they make and those promises tend to be made around the time some big new ship sale goes up. This is the kind of behavior from them that I find sickening and needs to stop.
If CIG are indeed sincere about their desire to simply make a great game, then stop taking money (they don't need it according to Chris), stop going to trade shows, stop doing stupid YouTube videos and just get it done.
The fact they haven't done it yet is not evidence they can't do it.This isn't logic, it's faith.
Science doesn't operate on vague hopes it works based on experimental proof & reason. So let's do the maths:
Let's assume that all the goals in the Tracker take the same amount of time and resources to create, therefore with 16% progress so far it will take CIG:I'm not saying it's impossible to do all they set out to do, plenty of other Games are doing similar things. However, based on the facts we have to hand, it would seem highly unlikely.
- 26 more years and...
- $787 million more in funding
3.0 won't do shit? You're serious? Seamless space to planet in cryengine isn't anything special huh? Blinded.
If you think SC isn't doing anything special then that's up to you. Derek seems to think it's impossible to do what they're doing. Space SIM fans have given 155 million dollars for this nothing special. Each to their own I suppose.
You think a company should stop generating sales? Do you realise how daft that sounds? They need a regular income to be a viable business. Without income they don't get rental leases or other lines of credit, with suppliers for example. Any company in the world that is making money will continue to do what is making them money. This is the real world and you don't stop selling as long as people aren't stopping buying.
Creating content doesn't take the same time as building the systems to run the content. They took 2 years to make SolEd. It now takes an hour to build a star system with it.
Delays don't mean they lied or are incompetent. It's game development, delays are standard.
3.0 won't do shit? You're serious? Seamless space to planet in cryengine isn't anything special huh? Blinded.
If you think SC isn't doing anything special then that's up to you. Derek seems to think it's impossible to do what they're doing. Space SIM fans have given 155 million dollars for this nothing special. Each to their own I suppose.
This shows how you curve arguments all the time. I said, they haven't done anything special YET. They plan something special, but are far away from delivering it.
So their achievement so far is they made something in an engine which is not developed to do such things instead of writing their own. Nice. So next time I see someone eating soup with chopsticks and finally is done with it I should be amazed how he done that, instead of using a spoon, or maybe realizing that he could invent something more sufficent than chopsticks.
You think a company should stop generating sales? Do you realise how daft that sounds? They need a regular income to be a viable business. Without income they don't get rental leases or other lines of credit, with suppliers for example. Any company in the world that is making money will continue to do what is making them money. This is the real world and you don't stop selling as long as people aren't stopping buying.
Who's daft? By your logic every game maker would be selling promises 5+ years before their games come out because they couldn't possibly pay their bills any other way. But that's not true. Plenty of games get made through self funding, publishers, private investors, etc., and then are only sold to end users once their is an actual finished product to sell.
Chris has said that having a publisher would stifle his creativity by forcing him to adhere to a budget and a deadline. But in reality it would only stifle his greed.
Creating content doesn't take the same time as building the systems to run the content. They took 2 years to make SolEd. It now takes an hour to build a star system with it.
That's a reasonable assumption to make, but this is CIG - it takes them ages to create content. Creating a ship takes a team months to do - and that's just a small ship. If the SolEd editor makes it so easy to make these systems (and yes I've seen the dev interview and demo) then where are all these planets? - they certainly aren't going to be in 3.0
Besides, they still seem to making the systems to run the content - you'd think they would have managed that after 5 years.
But, OK, let's accept your argument - then the tracker should start showing an acceleration in development, as content is rapidly added. However, just look at the graph on the Tracker. Clearly we haven't reached that point, actually, if anything it seems to have flat-lined.
If there is a game out there that does all the things 3.0 will bring then please let me know. I'm pretty sure non exists yet.
A game that looks beautiful and I can go from FPS to ship to station, walk around in station, get back in my ship, fly seamlessly to a planetary body and land, do more on foot stuff, PvP or PvE, rinse and repeat.
That's what is new. The whole caboodle, nothing in and of itself but the glorious whole.
If there is a game out there that does all the things 3.0 will bring then please let me know. I'm pretty sure non exists yet.
A game that looks beautiful and I can go from FPS to ship to station, walk around in station, get back in my ship, fly seamlessly to a planetary body and land, do more on foot stuff, PvP or PvE, rinse and repeat.
That's what is new. The whole caboodle, nothing in and of itself but the glorious whole.
I've found your new favourite Game Serendipity: The 1.3 update of No Man's Sky:
- 30 hours of new story content
- Economies & Trading
- Planetary biomes
- Crashed freighters & salvage missions
- Dynamically generated missions
- Reputation with NPC guilds
- Improved dogfighting in space and atmosphere
- VOIP with other players
So what's so special about Star Citizen?
None of them are as appealing, to me, as what I believe SC will become in time
None of them are as appealing, to me, as what I believe SC will become in time
That sort of sums it up. All the things promised by SC at the start: going from first person to ship, walking around planets and stations. Exploring, being a pirate, fighting, trading etc. Nobody was even talking about that stuff at the time. But here we are 5 years later and all these things are being done in other games (admittedly in different ways), but those aren't good enough for you (and sometimes they aren't that good).
You believe SC will be better than these games - the ones you can actually play - based on what? Dreams and vague promises from Chris Roberts?
You believe SC will be better than these games - the ones you can actually play - based on what? Dreams and vague promises from Chris Roberts?
Based on what I can play right now. It might be buggy and small and lacking features but I get where they want to go and I like it. The FPS is basic and needs better netcode but I enjoy it. The flying ships around bit is fun and exhilarating for me. Others disagree and that's fine. I've been playing video games for almost as long as they've existed and I trust myself. SC is exciting. I'm sure some of y'all have a long history of gaming too and you feel different, that's ok.
I'm not trying to drown anyone, I'm on my own and I'm sure you're all big boys and/or girls who can look after themselves. Use me as target practice, shoot me down.
@Serendipity
You are in a forum with people with a clear anti-CIG-business-philosophy-stance, and all your posts until now (either the subtle or the obvious ones) represent everything against the people here with their anti-CIG-business-philosophy-stance and shows your irrational adoration for the SC project.
You also cannot hide your fanatism for SC with your pseudo sincere neutral behavior since your communciation pattern is way to obvious.
Also 140+ posts just to say subtly F.U. is quiet an accomplishment so far.
Wait a minute, it becomes clear now why they doing this Burndown segment.
This is to get ahead of the inevitable delay into late this year possibly even next year
They have not even locked down the 3.0 branch yet
and have thousands of jira issues
3676 issues in the 3.0 branch
This is only to have a plausible excuse for further delays. They know already they can;t get this out the door.
They have not even started with the burndown.
They are still forking the 3.0 branch
Another interesting thing is him saying that SQ42 and PU are in the same master branch. This confirms some of the rumors about SQ42 not being a stand alone game any more. If it is all in one repo then they either have to branch it at some point or if they build SQ42, it will have PU and SQ42
@Serendipity
You are in a forum with people with a clear anti-CIG-business-philosophy-stance, and all your posts until now (either the subtle or the obvious ones) represent everything against the people here with their anti-CIG-business-philosophy-stance and shows your irrational adoration for the SC project.
You also cannot hide your fanatism for SC with your pseudo sincere neutral behavior since your communciation pattern is way to obvious.
Also 140+ posts just to say subtly F.U. is quiet an accomplishment so far.
Fanaticism, pseudo sincere, SC adoration? Ok. I sense more flawed analytics. Perhaps just hyperbole. I never can tell.
Fanaticism, pseudo sincere, SC adoration? Ok. I sense more flawed analytics. Perhaps just hyperbole. I never can tell.
Any comment on latest news? CIG lying again about release dates?
Fanaticism, pseudo sincere, SC adoration? Ok. I sense more flawed analytics. Perhaps just hyperbole. I never can tell.
Any comment on latest news? CIG lying again about release dates?
Which release dates would that be? Did you mean the estimated dates that come with a few paragraphs of caveats? Being wrong isn't necessarily lying. We've been through this a few pages ago.
Those are Derek's words. He understands game development is hard and unpredictable.
Looking at CIG looks like for some people game dev is too hard...That’s a good way to look at it… CIG makes game development look way harder than it actually is :laugh:
Please. Not this „people don't understand game development“ stuff again. As for release dates… they are no longer with us. Are we supposed to accept this straightfaced? Who in their right mind would think that this is the most normal thing in the world to happen??
Those are Derek's words. He understands game development is hard and unpredictable.
Looking at CIG looks like for some people game dev is too hard...
Unfortunately looks like CR will kill this project..initial idea in 2013 was good, that I and many others (including Derek) backed...
After watching first "Burndown" is clear that project state currently is overcomplicated mess..
Anyway interesting times ahead -> BIG question - will people spend a lot of money on remaining 2017 sales..
Any comment on latest news? CIG lying again about release dates?
Which release dates would that be? Did you mean the estimated dates that come with a few paragraphs of caveats? Being wrong isn't necessarily lying. We've been through this a few pages ago.
I can accept it because I don't care about waiting for a video game. My life is full of other things and other games. I lose no sleep over this. It's not normal I suppose but very little about this project is normal.
I can accept it because I don't care about waiting for a video game. My life is full of other things and other games. I lose no sleep over this. It's not normal I suppose but very little about this project is normal.
Yet you have 130+ comments about this. This shows how you don't care.
If you say so. Personally not really bothered if it was. They've had my money so now I'm waiting for a couple of cool space games. I'm in no rush.
They've added new stuff to 3.0 as well as removed stuff, it's almost as if, "Gamedev is like a jigsaw puzzle that you put together piece by piece. Like seeing how the sausage is made, it’s not always glamorous, stuff breaks (like all the time); and sometimes you put in a wrong piece that doesn’t fit (making it either a bug or a bad design choice) at all. Then you refactor it, put in a new piece that either fits, or breaks everything that previously worked
Those are Derek's words. He understands game development is hard and unpredictable.
I can accept it because I don't care about waiting for a video game. My life is full of other things and other games. I lose no sleep over this. It's not normal I suppose but very little about this project is normal.
Yet you have 130+ comments about this. This shows how you don't care.
Even if this isn't lying to the backers, it's at least gross incompetence.
And we're looking at yet another spin-off game in the LoD franchise which will make two games released since Star Citizen was announced.
Please. Not this „people don't understand game development“ stuff again. As for release dates… they are no longer with us. Are we supposed to accept this straightfaced? Who in their right mind would think that this is the most normal thing in the world to happen??
It might be that, as the caveats state, the dates were nothing but aggressive targets that had to change to reflect reality. No deadlines. No promises. Just a hard working dev team doing their best to get it done. If you'd read the caveats and words within the updates you should have noticed this possibility.
It might be that, as the caveats state, the dates were nothing but aggressive targets that had to change to reflect reality. No deadlines. No promises. Just a hard working dev team doing their best to get it done. If you'd read the caveats and words within the updates you should have noticed this possibility.
CR referring to 3.0 at GamesCom August 2016: "It's our big end of the year release. We're going to get it out at the end of the year, hopefully not on December the 19th"
"I get shot for making promises, but that's our goal"
He said that to a room full of people who are effectively his publishers and here we are still waiting - 8 months and counting - but it's OK because it's an "aggressive target" :vince:
And we're looking at yet another spin-off game in the LoD franchise which will make two games released since Star Citizen was announced.
But you don't have their kind of fidelity. And you're not using the latest technology. And you're not doing things that have never ever been done before. Basically, you're not building the BDSSE, so that's no comparison. My guess is, you're just trying to hitch a hike on the whole SC Versing the Burning Down Universe... And has Sandi now signed on, or are you still negotiating with her?
And we're looking at yet another spin-off game in the LoD franchise which will make two games released since Star Citizen was announced.
But you don't have their kind of fidelity. And you're not using the latest technology. And you're not doing things that have never ever been done before. Basically, you're not building the BDSSE, so that's no comparison. My guess is, you're just trying to hitch a hike on the whole SC Versing the Burning Down Universe... And has Sandi now signed on, or are you still negotiating with her?
Right. That's the part that we need to catch up on. It's tough being an indie you see :laugh:
Couple of questions.
What does indie mean for a game Dev company?
Who are Star Citizen and Squadron 42's publisher?
It might be that, as the caveats state, the dates were nothing but aggressive targets that had to change to reflect reality. No deadlines. No promises. Just a hard working dev team doing their best to get it done. If you'd read the caveats and words within the updates you should have noticed this possibility.
CR referring to 3.0 at GamesCom August 2016: "It's our big end of the year release. We're going to get it out at the end of the year, hopefully not on December the 19th"
"I get shot for making promises, but that's our goal"
He said that to a room full of people who are effectively his publishers and here we are still waiting - 8 months and counting - but it's OK because it's an "aggressive target" :vince:
The goal was missed. I don't care. If the company collapses before I get my games, then I'll care. Until then I'm ok to wait and watch. People raging about missed dates in video game releases always makes me laugh. I just don't get it. It doesn't matter to me if I play a game now or in 12 months. The funding isn't slowing down, it's up on last year's Jan to Aug, so I'm confident financial collapse isn't happening this year or early next.
Watching streamers play 2.6 at gamescom is a little naff to be fair as that's, ermmm, exactly what happened last year but getting a reasonably stable 3.0 patch soon after and then showing a chunk of squadron at citizencon should bolster backer confidence and the CIG bank balance significantly.
My crystal ball is now going back in the cupboard.
This is amazing!
Why CIG does not have private investors? (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6tor2k/why_cig_does_not_have_private_investors/)
(http://i.imgur.com/Wotq0Cl.jpg)
These guys really see nothing wrong with their own idiocy :vince:
I will not be issuing you any further warnings, nor deleting your inappropriate posts. Next time, it's a straight up IP + email ban.
There is NO trolling on this board. Take that shit to Reddit and keep it there.
An alpha version of a video game has some bugs? Well then, the project is obviously doomed.
Video wasn't available. I just saw a still shot of a commando floating weirdly in space.An alpha version of a video game has some bugs? Well then, the project is obviously doomed.
Grow a sense of humour and actually watch the video before commenting - it's clearly a joke.
So is the rest of the Star Citizen - but that's a different discussion.
Nah, no trolling here. Phew.
It seems to me, that there is a consensus about your stupidity among forum members.
Did not know that calling someone stupid is "outright insulting" either. How sensitive people can get?
Just to be clear, I'm not trolling. When I say that I think that Serendipity is stupid, I really mean that. Not as trolling, but in the sense that he really lacks basic intellect, that he is dumb, that he really is not smart at all, that he is an idiot, a moron. Mentally challenged on still uncharted levels. You get my drift here.
I thought that "stupid" best described that opinion but I am open to alternative wording if stupid has such a negative meaning that it is considered trolling.
If you feel you don't get any value from this forum or feel violated because people think you are stupid regarding how you percept SC, you can always leave, or just read and not comment.
Many of us would appreciate if you decided to do this. The forum would become what it was once again. A site where we can read the opinion of DS and have a laugh at CIG. It was soooooo good before you. It was comedy gold. Now it's people whining because of namecalling and posting the same arguments 150+ times.
I think you are not only stupid, but boring and annoying as well, polluting a lot of people's place to have a laugh.
If anyone is a troll in this thread, it's you.
Just to be clear, I'm not trolling. When I say that I think that Serendipity is stupid, I really mean that. Not as trolling, but in the sense that he really lacks basic intellect, that he is dumb, that he really is not smart at all, that he is an idiot, a moron. Mentally challenged on still uncharted levels. You get my drift here.
I thought that "stupid" best described that opinion but I am open to alternative wording if stupid has such a negative meaning that it is considered trolling.
End of September maybe?
Not that any of that matters at all. Let's get this thread back on topic shall we? Talking about me is very flattering but it's not really about 'The Game'.
Not that any of that matters at all. Let's get this thread back on topic shall we? Talking about me is very flattering but it's not really about 'The Game'.
Must be nice to be able to post somewhere to talk about star citizen without having overzealous mods ban anyone who even breathes a word of criticism or discontent. I assume that's why you post here because you accept the echo-chamber circlejerk of the RSI forums and /r/starcitizen are completely inferior to this board. I, for one, thank you for that compliment bro on behalf of Derek and on behalf of myself for having the sense to post here.
End of September maybe?
Ha ha ha ha
and I thought you didn't have a sense of humour :lol:
The RSI forums are full of 'malcontents' that do little other than slam the company and their practices, seriously, I'm not sure which forums you're talking about but spectrum is loaded with a whole rainbow of emotions in relation to the project. I just post here because I enjoy it. I post on spectrum too and Reddit. I'm an equal opportunities internet denizen.
Definitely a man and a nice guy with a lovely wife and baby daughter. No marbles missing unless you think I'm mad for typing some words on a forum. University educated and not a kiddo. I like long walks on the beach, cooking, camping and music festivals. GSOH. Little overweight but working on it. I've always loved an argument as well, always have done. My parents would tell you I'm a massive wind up merchant. Never going to to obsessing about what others think of me, especially those I don't know on the tinterwebz.
Not that any of that matters at all. Let's get this thread back on topic shall we? Talking about me is very flattering but it's not really about 'The Game'.
The RSI forums are full of 'malcontents' that do little other than slam the company and their practices, seriously, I'm not sure which forums you're talking about but spectrum is loaded with a whole rainbow of emotions in relation to the project. I just post here because I enjoy it. I post on spectrum too and Reddit. I'm an equal opportunities internet denizen.
Nope. The RSI forums are moderated to within an inch of their life. The only areas of malcontent that aren't immediately locked and poster banned are a tiny spectrum of specific complaints that RSI allows to give the impression of open and fair discussion. I'm surprised that you didn't manage to notice that.
End of September maybe?
Ha ha ha ha
and I thought you didn't have a sense of humour :lol:
Squadron 42 hasn't matched that? Really? Hogwash.Yeah but once you stop looking at all the prerendered visuals and look in game.
Well at least his coffee will now be rendered with fidelicious realistic fluid physics :lol:
Completed: 1
Delayed: 5
Regressed: 0
New Tasks: 0
Remaining: 8
Needs bug-fixing: 24
Total In-progress: 32
Furthest ETA: TBD or Sept 6th (was TBD or Sept 1st)
This week we have also moved the code onto its own 3.0 branch. “Branching” is when we copy the code from our main repository, where all the developers send their fixes and implementations at any time, to a separate “branch” and start looking more closely at what is changing, to make sure that any activity happening is absolutely necessary for our target build.
Now that they're isolated from the main branch, there should be way fewer new bugs happening, which will definitely help reducing the still impressive amount of bugs remaining for evocati release.
- ENTITY OWNER MANAGER - Code Complete. This now allows the backend team to properly hook into this system.
- IMPROVED LIGHTING FOR FOG TECH - ETA
This work is still being estimated due to cross-discipline dependencies.
- MISSION GIVERS - ETA is 25th August
- VEHICLE CUSTOMIZER APP - ETA is 4th September (was 21st August)
During recent gameplay reviews with the directors, additional items of polish and general feature feedback has been recieved and incorporated into the scheudle to achieve the desired level of polish we require before releasing.
- SHIP SELECTOR APP & INSURANCE CLAIM - ETA is 29th August (Was 15th August)
During recent gameplay reviews with the directors, additional items of polish and general feature feedback has been recieved and incorporated into the scheudle to achieve the desired level of polish we require before releasing.
- COMMS SYSTEM UI - ETA is 6th September (was 25th August)
During recent gameplay reviews with the directors, additional items of polish and general feature feedback has been recieved and incorporated into the scheudle to achieve the desired level of polish we require before releasing.
- MISSION GIVERS
- CHARACTER CUSTOMIZATION
- VEHICLE CUSTOMIZER APP
- SHIP SELECTOR APP & INSURANCE CLAIM
- COMMS SYSTEM UI
- MISSION SYSTEM
- ADDITIONAL SURFACE OUTPOSTS
- IMPROVED LIGHTING FOR FOG TECH
- INVENTORY SYSTEM SUPPORT
- INVENTORY SYSTEM
- ITEM 2.0 SHIP CONVERSION – PART 2
- INSURANCE
- DOORS AND AIRLOCKS
- CARGO
- CARGO MANIFEST APP
- KIOSK SUPPORT
- REPAIR
- HINT SYSTEM
- PERSONAL MANAGER APP
- MISSION MANAGER APP
- MISSION BOARD APP
- PHYSICS SERIALIZATION
- DRAKE DRAGONFLY
- RSI CONSTELLATION AQUILLA
- MISC PROSPECTOR
- ROVER AND DRAGONFLY IN SHIPS
- ITEM 2.0 MULTI FUNCTION DISPLAYS
- MOBIGLAS OVERHAUL
- RENDER TO TEXTURE
- RSI AURORA
- PLAYER MANNED TURRETS
- ENTITY OWNER MANAGER
Please do go have a look at my reddit comments: https://www.reddit.com/user/ConfusedMonkeh/comments
I want to apologize to you Derek, for giving you cheek all these years directly and indirectly across various platforms over this project.
I can't believe I didn't see this impending disaster for what it is. After following their nebulous production schedule in detail for months now, it's apparent. Even if they manage to Frankenstein together something in the coming year or two, all signs point to SC forever remaining an early access alpha; a titanic abortion in more practical terms.
Now I'm just following ongoing development out of morbid curiosity. :smugdog:
Make no mistake, the impending demos, promises and CGI montages will be spectacular. They need to be to stimulate the next round of ship sales. May burn existing fans who have put some time into following development and see the futility of the schedule, but the goal is to grow the whale farm overall. I still believe they can keep this train going for a couple more years until it derails. Perhaps siphon off $250+ million in total and spit out something akin to a really pretty but equally as shallow No man's sky with multiplayer tacked on from the get-go. Maybe even a severely scaled down version of SQ42.
This part is hilarious.QuoteThis week we have also moved the code onto its own 3.0 branch. “Branching” is when we copy the code from our main repository, where all the developers send their fixes and implementations at any time, to a separate “branch” and start looking more closely at what is changing, to make sure that any activity happening is absolutely necessary for our target build.
This part is hilarious.QuoteThis week we have also moved the code onto its own 3.0 branch. “Branching” is when we copy the code from our main repository, where all the developers send their fixes and implementations at any time, to a separate “branch” and start looking more closely at what is changing, to make sure that any activity happening is absolutely necessary for our target build.
Wait a second, what? What kind of cowboy outfit is this? As a software developer myself I am blown away that they aren't using milestone branches as standard procedure 100% of the time. Are they just merging features directly into the master branch?
This part is hilarious.QuoteThis week we have also moved the code onto its own 3.0 branch. “Branching” is when we copy the code from our main repository, where all the developers send their fixes and implementations at any time, to a separate “branch” and start looking more closely at what is changing, to make sure that any activity happening is absolutely necessary for our target build.
Wait a second, what? What kind of cowboy outfit is this? As a software developer myself I am blown away that they aren't using milestone branches as standard procedure 100% of the time. Are they just merging features directly into the master branch?
So, how's that latest blog coming along? It's now 21-08-2017 23:40 overhere. Me's gettin' hungry :supaburn:
BTW, if there is any truth in the rumors about Sandi and Chris getting a divorce, do you think that's just for the record to get some money safely away from those backers who might want it back. Or is the love now dissolving since jailtime is imminent? Of both maybe?
You thought the Star Citizen scam couldn't get any worse? It's no longer 2.6.3 (current build). It's now called "pre-patch 3.0" (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=star+citizen+Pre-Patch+3.0)
Not writing anything now will give the Shitizens ammunition to say you actually don't have anything - as they of course knew - and you're writing in hindsight and therefore all is worthless and, well everYthing basicallY is hYperbole with You.
Couldn't you just give us something? The main headlines, preferrably a little longer than a tweet. Something big that they can't deny afterwards. The suspense is killing me :magical: Please :allears: ? Pretty please :allears: ?
Oh, that 30 - 45 days, I'm guessing you're pretty sure about that to make a statement like that. Won't a supersale at Games Com spoil that prediction?
The Sandi thing is really pissing people off. They're forgetting she's not only his wife, but also number 2 in the company and getting al lot of backer money payed every year as salary for who knows what actually. Being the boss' wife probably. You might want to mention that.
Precisely. There are many - many - businesses (mostly small businesses) which employ family members. The issue with CIG is that, using crowd-funded money, Croberts enriched his family and friends, most of whom are OVER PAID, in the furtherance of this scheme. There is a reason why “Unjust Enrichment” is a thing.
And aside from Erin, he did try to hide the fact that he was married to Sandi.
Of course, it wasn’t until I did my investigative blog that it came to light that all the people currently involved in the project, are the same same friends (excluding Ortwin) and family (excluding Sandi) who were involved in previous train-wrecks, namely that whole Gizmondo fiasco which I wrote about back in 20152.
Basically they are Roberts (all three), Elms (all three), Derek Senior, Tony Zurovek, Ortwin and others on the fringe like David Swofford (marketing), Eric Peterson (who bailed earlier on (https://www.engadget.com/2015/04/09/descent-underground-kickstarter-eric-peterson/)) who go all the way back to the early days with Croberts.
If you don’t think that’s shady enough, they even removed her “Meet Sandi Gardiner (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12913-Meet-Sandi-Gardiner)” entry from the website shortly after my expose. This is the last capture from March 2013 (https://web.archive.org/web/20140103222149/https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12913-Meet-Sandi-Gardiner). And this was around the time she was going on interviews and claiming to have two degrees in marketing, so she was totally qualified to be VP Of Marketing for the project. All of which have proven to be false.
I don’t see how anyone thinks that if they had gone to VC for money, how any of this would have passed due diligence.
It has been possible to deduce that the headline features shown since mid 2015 are standalone r&d tech. Caveats included in some of the dev videos (one of which I quoted twice in this thread relating to the planetside tech) further confirm this.
There is nothing from inside CIG or ex-CIG sources in the public domain regarding the reasons why modules developed by CIG and 3rd parties cannot be pulled into the PU - with the exception of Ilfonic's (canned) Star Marine work.
However these conversations HAVE happened in private and there are a fair number of folks within and around the industry with an insight into this, and with better knowledge and experience of game dev than someone like me could ever hope to have.
I had the opportunity to ask a CIG programmer why none of this stuff ever made it into the PU (among other questions), and if I posted the response without the swear words there wouldn't be much of it left.
It's straightforward enough to find out what's going on with this project behind the marketing and it won't become fully in the public domain until "it is 100% certain that Chris Roberts is never working in this industry again"
---
Also this post may be deleted as off topic which is fair enough, but Derek knows a hell of a lot more than he lets on and he isn't the only person.
If CIG are still asking for money it is BEYOND time that they need to come clean regarding the engine.
They had devs in 2016 who had become literally ill over all this, and they're doing the same thing at Gamescom they did last year and will scoop in millions.
If whales want to click a big donate button that's fine, but that's not what's going on - and those promoting the project by reposting marketing ought to make themselves aware of a few facts, because as far as myself and many others are concerned they're culpable.
There are some really unhinged "backers" who will simply lose their minds when their dream world evaporates.
There are some really unhinged "backers" who will simply lose their minds when their dream world evaporates.
They may well lose their minds but I think they'd just scapegoat (like many already are) and blame Derek for the entire collapse. That despite the fact that he , and I'm sure many of us here share the sentiment, has stated he would love to play the game CIG promised. We just know it's not going to happen.
There are some really unhinged "backers" who will simply lose their minds when their dream world evaporates.
They may well lose their minds but I think they'd just scapegoat (like many already are) and blame Derek for the entire collapse. That despite the fact that he , and I'm sure many of us here share the sentiment, has stated he would love to play the game CIG promised. We just know it's not going to happen.
Hey, go find Chris comments on where SQ42 'stood' in 2016 and compare it to it's 'status' now according to Chris at GC 2017.
The various magazine were reporting Chris as stating that SQ42 was at 'Greybox or better'...
Now at Gamesonc 2017 Roberts is reported as saying 'They’re still working on final assets, but all the missions and chapters are blocked out. Each chapter would be several missions in say Wing Commander. They’re somewhere between white and grey boxes.'
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6vrnxr/gamescom_day_2_live_show_notes_erin_chris_roberts/
So, according to Chris Sq42 has actually gone backwards in development over the last 10 months.
Oh, and they quietly changed the schedule during GamesCom. Projected 3.0 release now Oct.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIKT4QzWsAMfD94.jpg)
Report: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/schedule-report
Diff: https://www.diffchecker.com/2HwalFtY
That's not all, we all saw the performance issues which various sources had told me about, and which I'd discussed these past months. This Idris ship, is a frigate (which for some reason they're now calling a capital ship) class. Having seen the performance when even one of them is in a scene, let alone two, who here believes that they're ever going to be able to put in ships of this size in the game? Here, take a look a the ship chart (https://i.imgur.com/93DNjKJ.jpg) updated for GC2017 and be the judge. The Idris, which is missing btw, would be in the lower left under Aegis. You can see its size comparison in this ship cross-section (https://imgur.com/CEgnpS6.jpg) image.
(http://imgur.com/Tj0IWUk.png)Left: mid 8th gen
Don't know about that, Mark looks pretty good here.
Show me WHERE in the "game", that appears. In real time. I'll wait.It's obviously concept art, which was never rendered by CryEngine.
Miles looks pretty good here.
What about the render player faces on video screen technology they showed too? The pilot on screen in the other player's ship? That looked impressive and very cool
Serendipity - We've had this discussion already and you lost. So here we are again:
Will Crysis 3 take that face and display it in my mate's ship? Will it animate in time with my face? Is that pre rendered cutscene of a finished game compared to a real time image captured off a stream of a game in alpha? Look at Marks face above if we're comparing cut scenes, not an image ripped off a stream of an in game alpha with face rig stuff happening live.
Will Crysis 3 take that face and display it in my mate's ship? Will it animate in time with my face? Is that pre rendered cutscene of a finished game compared to a real time image captured off a stream of a game in alpha? Look at Marks face above if we're comparing cut scenes, not an image ripped off a stream of an in game alpha with face rig stuff happening live.
Will Crysis 3 take that face and display it in my mate's ship? Will it animate in time with my face?
Don't know about that, Mark looks pretty good here.
The problem with that if he eventually produces something, it's expected to be very shiny. So whatever they release as 3.0 must be in tip-top shape. Otherwise, what have they been polishing all that time with all those people? And then people realise there wasn't much to polish to start with, so Chris lied. Now, what else might he have been lying about. And there it goes....
Quote-They found an animation glitch
-Fixed it by building a workaround ramp
-Which for unknown reasons made another 100% reproducible Glitch that nobody could figure out disappear
-They call it a happy accident and decide to show that to the backers as an example of bugfixing
If this really is how they work the 3.0 demo is amazingly stable.
It's also funny that it confirms the issue council bug tacker isn't actually used internally for tracking bugs, they use zendesk instead which explains why so many of the bug videos I found, even days after being logged, had 0 views on youtube.
Also they tracked the bug on zendesk, fixed it on zendesk and notice the comment at the bottom, someone went in and double checked all the fixed bugs to make sure they were resolved specifically for the gamescom build. Indicating they've been working on a specific build for gamecom for weeks/months, not a 3.0 build for release that will just happen to be shown at gamescom.
(http://i.imgur.com/ONgvv7M.png)
It's also funny that it confirms the issue council bug tacker isn't actually used internally for tracking bugs, they use zendesk instead which explains why so many of the bug videos I found, even days after being logged, had 0 views on youtube.Nothing public facing at CIG has anything to do with what happens internally. It's complete opaque with a 100 % PR shell.
I've been wondering ever since I started lurking about a year ago on one topic I feel has been left largely undiscussed. I consider it to be a tad bit more technical and that's probably why no one has picked it up yet - as it is a narrative that won't be understood by the general part of the SC audience. It might've had some traction in the past but lost momentum in which case I'd be grateful if you can point me to a place where it came to passing.
The topic is: Test automation. I'll get the fact that I'm a software developer but not a game developer right out of the way. "I don't understand game development™" that much is clear and I won't insist that business software and game software should be done the same way. However, games are still a piece of software and can benefit from good practices that the software engineering field provides.
With both disclaimers out of the way... questions time:
- Do game engines allow unit testing of relatively simple pieces of code? As an example, maybe you want to test your physics related functions to see if for specific parameters they consistently return the same result. That way if someone accidentally breaks a calculation you'd expect to catch the error long before your character starts jittering uncontrollably during actual gameplay.
- Do we have any insider knowledge of CIG leveraging from such kind of quality control? I've seen them using JIRA screenshots excessively as of late to show that they have proper management of their feature's development (scoring them some "faith" points). JIRA lets you integrate build results that run after code changes /commits/ on a specific feature and can show the automated tests' results as passing or failing. However in any screenshots I've encountered the most information we could make out is that they're using source control branches and not much else.
If CIG can only depend on debugging code and manual QAs I fear they're in a bit of a worse pickle in the longer term (if they make it that far). I'm not bashing on manual QAs and bugsmashers, they're the unsung heroes in any kind of software project but there's only so much a human can do when a project gets more than a 100 or even thousands of features in it. Also it's quite a moral crush if you have to test the same features over and over and over just to make sure the last 3 lines of code that were changed didn't break something that was working years ago.
One can go on in much further details as to why automated testing with good coverage is all round beneficial and not a waste of time but the gist of it is already in this post. No need to post full blown chapters of books that cover the matter.
The topic is: Test automation. I'll get the fact that I'm a software developer but not a game developer right out of the way. "I don't understand game development™" that much is clear and I won't insist that business software and game software should be done the same way. However, games are still a piece of software and can benefit from good practices that the software engineering field provides.My impression is that game development has the worst standards of software engineering. Which is understandable. Video games are not "mission-critical". If your product crashes, at most someone gets upset, but no planes fall out of the sky and no million-dollar factory stops manufacturing. OTOH "pushing the limits" (esp. performance) is key, so having correct programs without "hacky" shortcuts is less of a priority.
So what do we think CR's, 'dont show the loading screen', was about? What could possibly have been unshowable on a convention only build, loading screen?Because the whole thing was a CryEngine level and not representative of 3.0 or any build of SC. Showing the loading screen would've tipped everyone off.
I'm intrigued.
I can't show you Squadron 42 because it isn't finished yet. You know this. If you can wait until Citizencon, then apparently we should get to see a lot of Squadron information. You probably also know this too.
What about the render player faces on video screen technology they showed too? The pilot on screen in the other player's ship? That looked impressive and very cool
My impression is that game development has the worst standards of software engineering. Which is understandable. Video games are not "mission-critical". If your product crashes, at most someone gets upset, but no planes fall out of the sky and no million-dollar factory stops manufacturing. OTOH "pushing the limits" (esp. performance) is key, so having correct programs without "hacky" shortcuts is less of a priority.
Talent-wise I see some negative selection bias due to the working conditions in the industry. Everyone who can applies elsewhere, only doing grunt coding work at EA & Co as a last resort. The only people who seem to get actually paid well are the voice-actors for some reason.
In the end it all boils down to cost: proper QA costs money, while the video game media don't care much about software quality. Fancy graphics are more important. Star Citizen is a perfect example.
So what do we think CR's, 'dont show the loading screen', was about? What could possibly have been unshowable on a convention only build, loading screen?
I'm intrigued.
I've disagreed with Derek Smart plenty in the past. And I think he is too invested in seeing himself right. I've objected to the use of the word "scam" for example because that implies a degree of dishonesty which I do not believe is present. I think CIG are working hard to make the BDSSE.
BUT - just because I don't believe it is a scam doesn't mean I don't think that CIG are skewing the development priorities to maximise their current money flow. Hence, the focus is more on pushing ship sales and hyping up cosmetic features and technologies rather than game development.
Right. But that's what makes it a scam. :smug:
But do I think CIG are demonstrating the degree of criminality needed for a scam? No. But I think the focus on raising money via ship sales and the like IS partially responsible for the slow development. You can argue that they are being dishonest, but a lot of that is marketing and PR and expected.
Spectrum will know...
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/why-did-chris-not-want-the-loading-screen-shown-af
So ask yourself this: will the game ever be released before CIG run out of cash? (seems likely) and if so, and the company collapses, will they end up being to taken to court by angry backers who want their money back accusing them of mismanagement and fraud? (very yes)
Right. But that's what makes it a scam. :smug:
They are taking money, in the form of pre-orders, and using that money to develop a game.
You can argue that they are being "dishonest" to be the point of scamming people, but then a lot of what they are doing is simple marketing and PR.
The key point for me is first - are they developing a game? and second - will the game be released?
Spectrum will know...
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/why-did-chris-not-want-the-loading-screen-shown-af
Spectrum will know...
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/why-did-chris-not-want-the-loading-screen-shown-af
Why? The only people who would know why Chris wanted the loading screen hidden is Chris, and possibly anyone in the hall who might have seen the screen and been able to read it while he was telling people to hide it.
The problem is that the only times CR seemed to want stuff hidden like that is when things were going bad. When the players gun started glitching for example, he was told to remove it. So the suspicion that there was something on the loading screen that we were not supposed to see is very strong.
What would normally be on a loading screen? A pretty picture. Version information. Copyright info.
We saw a bit of a pretty picture. But we saw nothing about why CR was so insistent that the loading screen be swapped out. You could argue that they didn't want it known that it was a special build for Gamescom but I think everyone knew that already and CR essentially admitted as such when he started.
Chris knows he can't make the game as he promised it. Yet he took money based on those promises. Now he continues to ask for money by referring to those promises in the full knowledge that he can't keep them. That's fraud. Plain and simple.
quote:
Completed: 0
Delayed: 5
Regressed: 0
New Tasks: 1
Removed From 3.0: 1
Remaining: 8
Needs bug-fixing: 24
Total In-progress: 32
quote:
Our Gamescom team is back from a successful showing of Star Citizen in Cologne. Thousands of people got to experience one of the moons of Alpha 3.0 firsthand in our show floor booth and many also got a chance to see more at the Gloria Theater in downtown Cologne Friday night. Essentially those attendees at the show were our first external “testers” for 3.0 and while they were busy having fun flying and adventuring around the new areas of Star Citizen, they also helped us identify more bugs in the game as we continue efforts to bring 3.0 to its live launch. As a result of all the “play testing” at Gamescom, our bug count has taken an upward swing this week as more issues were discovered during the demos in our booth. Last week the must-fix issues totaled 68 and this week saw a jump up to 94. While that seems like a large increase, it is very much a part of the burn-down process in game development. Also these bugs were discovered much quicker due to the sheer numbers of players who came through our booth (2,000 +). The process also showed us that the build isn’t quite ready for a wider test, just yet. Since Gamescom, the SC team has been hard at work to bring those numbers to a level where we can “go wider” with the Evocati, the PTU and the entire player base.
One other news of note. This week, we’ll be pulling down the various project timelines on our weekly dev schedule as our bug burn down numbers become even more critical to our launch and are much more of a driving force in our ultimate goal: getting 3.0 in your hands.
MISSION GIVERS - ETA is 8th September (was 25th August)
SHIP SELECTOR APP & INSURANCE CLAIM - ETA is 4th September (was 29th August)
The date has moved out slighty due to extra debugging and support.
COMMS SYSTEM UI - ETA is 6th September
We are adding the initial implementation of the Comms System in to 3.0.0 which will allow players to hail in order to request landing while at the various space stations in the PU.
During recent gameplay reviews with the directors, additional items of polish and general feature feedback has been received and incorporated into the schedule to achieve the desired level of polish we require before releasing.
MISSION SYSTEM - [No change but from the comments seems likely o be delayed]
Progress on this feature is currently under Director review. Any feedback received from this review that could result in further work will be evaluated and estimated.
COCKPIT EXPERIENCE - ETA is 5th September
The Cockpit Experience sprint team focused on improving the overall player experience in the cockpit by refining the cockpit geometry, character placement, g-force/hit reactions, VFX, Audio, UI, as well as code support for things like camera shaking and hooking into ship health systems to display proper damage.
IMPROVED LIGHTING FOR FOG TECH - TBD Removed
We have started the task of relighting all the environments and ships to incorporate this new feature. However, due to the volume of work, it is likely to be an ongoing process and extend beyond 3.0.0, so we will relight everything we can up to the live release and then address whatever remains in a future patch.
- MISSION GIVERS
- CHARACTER CUSTOMIZATION
- VEHICLE CUSTOMIZER APP
- SHIP SELECTOR APP & INSURANCE CLAIM
- COMMS SYSTEM UI
- MISSION SYSTEM
- ADDITIONAL SURFACE OUTPOSTS
- COCKPIT EXPERIENCE
- INVENTORY SYSTEM SUPPORT
- INVENTORY SYSTEM
- ITEM 2.0 SHIP CONVERSION – PART 2
- INSURANCE
- DOORS AND AIRLOCKS
- CARGO
- CARGO MANIFEST APP
- KIOSK SUPPORT
- REPAIR
- HINT SYSTEM
- PERSONAL MANAGER APP
- MISSION MANAGER APP
- MISSION BOARD APP
- PHYSICS SERIALIZATION
- DRAKE DRAGONFLY
- RSI CONSTELLATION AQUILLA
- MISC PROSPECTOR
- ROVER AND DRAGONFLY IN SHIPS
- ITEM 2.0 MULTI FUNCTION DISPLAYS
- MOBIGLAS OVERHAUL
- RENDER TO TEXTURE
- RSI AURORA
- PLAYER MANNED TURRETS
- ENTITY OWNER MANAGER
I haven't read quite so much bullshit put together in a long time. Notice how they try to use project management terms and techniques as proof of how professional they are?
Really looking forward to 3.0 now. Should be amazing.
Note that he pobably meant the actual released 3.0 build. Although I think that release will be as amazingly bad as the GC17 demo.
So here is my 10 for the chairman questions. I'd like to say that this is probably going to be the last 10 for the chairman that you get from me for a while because I'm getting on a plane. This is... we're shooting this on Friday for Monday airing but I'm actually flying on Monday to the UK where I'm going to be working hard on the performance capture sessions for squadron 42 which is very cool. Hannis and myself are going to be working with all the actors and setting up all the scenes for squadron 42. We've got some... we're gonna have a pretty awesome cast. We're not going to share it yet it's going to be something that we'll reveal closer to the day but I think you guys will be both impressed and happy. Stories for Squadron 42 is shaping up really well. I think we haven't shared in detail, later on we were... we will share it but essentially you know we've got a really big sort of story arc so we're going to split it into a trilogy, so you know Wing Commander one, two, three, that kind of thing.
So episode one is what people will play this year and that's the one that has seven... the equivalent of 70 Wing Commander style missions and it's formulated a little differently than say the old Wing Commander because the Wing Commander it was like you flew a space mission and then you're aboard the ship and had some conversation, you flew another space mission. Whereas in squadron 42 you can fly a space mission and then land, get out, get into a firefight with some pirates then chase another pirate, he gets into a ship and takes off, you get into a ship and chase him, so you know in the old sort of Wing Commander format that's actually three missions but it's all sort of one fluid thing that happens. There'll be three sort of checkpoints so to speak of in squadron 42 for those kind of things, but it would sort of all be one overall mission.
So we're sort of thinking it's like 20, I think it's 21 chapters or so, and each chapter sort of is a segment of missions that's sort of a kind of fluid, so they sort of do this and then maybe you'll stop and be talking around and dealing with people and get into some action and then it sort of goes on like that.
So it's the equivalent of about 70 missions Wing Commander style. I think we think is about 20 hours of gameplay. It's pretty damn cool like I said, we're gonna have some we have an awesome cast and then you'll be spending time with them for the next.
So episode 2 is behind enemy lines which I think everyone that backed until like six million gets for free, and then episode three would be the year after that. So we're sort of thinking that we'll have each one of these each one of them is the equivalent of a huge triple A, you know Call of Duty or better because I mean we've got a much bigger campaign and it's cool and
So anyway I'm starting there. I'm going to shoot that. We're working you know really hard the UK guys heads down and we've got a whole bunch of other people in the German offices helping a lot on squadron 42 and other areas of... So Illfonic a lot of the FPS mechanics will go into squadron 42 stuff that we're doing for space here in L.A. is going into it and you know some of the you know animation and other aspects are also happening in austin for squadron 42.
So it's gonna be pretty cool but I'm going to be in the UK for the next almost three months. So basically we're starting shooting a couple of weeks from now but I've got to do prep also spend time with foundry 42 and then we'll shoot all the way through to about the end of June and will also be also doing some more motion capture and stuff like that and so but it's going to be fun. I'm really excited it's going to be you know cinematic great lots of movement so everyone that's a Wing Commander fan and wants the next generation Wing Commander I think is going to be very very happy with squadron 42 and what you'll get to play this year and then you'll have stuff to look forward to the next few years while we're busily finishing out the game which is you know something that we're going to be doing next year in terms of the persistent universe and all the rest of stuff.
So I think the idea is really just to sort of keep on building the universe and the world and also be releasing narrative stories for you to play and eventually we'll also be doing ones that aren't so, sort of, military focused like squadron 42. Maybe a sort of more kind of rogue Han Solo style story and stuff like that. This one's a pretty awesome, it's a pretty, pretty big storyline. Don't want to get into too much details but it's sort of the overall story arc was what the writer from sci-fi was referring to, who shouldn't have actually written down the article because I told her not to, but she seemed to forget that part but anyway. It's the overall arc of... That's why there's Behind Enemy Lines, it's the second episode. Anyway, enough of that, on to the questions.
Would be a shame if that transcript were to be posted to reddit, as a reminder of what everyone paid for and what was coming in 2016.
Note that he pobably meant the actual released 3.0 build. Although I think that release will be as amazingly bad as the GC17 demo.
Yes, we always have to keep in mind that 3.0 ≠ 3.0 ≠ 3.0! As the years go by, this tends to be forgotten.What will happen between now and when they actually release something under the disguise of 3.0, is anyone’s guess. However, according to the theory of homeopathy, the potency of the game will increase with each dilution. So, prepare for the worst… er, best!
- The original, genuine, mammoth 3.0, the real deal everyone was looking forward to in 2016 (or was it 2015)… you know, the Jesus Patch and New Netcode Implementation – that Mother Of All Updates was already something entirely different to begin with.
- The watered down 3.0 promised this year was like a 1:10 dilution of the original.
- Then they stripped down and delayed more features in the months and weeks before GC, resulting in further dilution.
when i think about it Star Citizen is the next step of AAA development.
Instead of releasing disappointing end product to consumer you just keep on piling up the promises and fidelity. With soon being a keyword keeping people investing into the product.
each time raising the expectation of consumer.
the more they deliver the actual product the less they can sell the dream forward.
im fearing this is the lesson AAA will learn from star citizen
Think about it star citizen has always been close to finish. But what is actually getting finished is a trailer of next big feature delaying the overall process.
The next video should read "Early 2018, to The Face Palm"At this point, I'd prefer "The Final Face-Plant".
https://giphy.com/gifs/KY1qPW3R4KXSg/html5
New Star Citizen finds the community in game to be amazingly friendly and helpful. Which is nice.
https://www.gamerebel.net/my-first-time-playing-star-citizen-first-impressions/
What I found during my first playthrough of Star Citizen was that the game is a bit convoluted, difficult to navigate, extremely buggy and lacking of stuff to do. However, I also found that this alpha state of a game, holds one of the most friendly and wonderful gaming communities I have ever seen in my 20+ years of internet use. Everyone is super helpful to new players, and many of the community know each other well and play nightly.
[/i]
There is nothing to do at all so yes, it is complete BS. Even the people advocating the game regularly tell people to wait to try it out, because they know it isn't fun. That guy probably did everything you can in 1 hour, spent the rest of the time probably just flying in circles and laughing at game breaking bugs
That the current figures are false needs no further clarification. I'll just wait for the investigations to bring out the whole truth of the finances.
Star Citizen is the only odd ball one here, for more than 1 reason, but I am not worried about that project. I might start to get a little worried when they reach year 8 from when the kickstarter ended, if they have not released one of the games, So late 2020 early 2021.
Anyways, Kickstarter/crowdfund have been a great thing for PC gaming.
If anything it has only changed to the point where people are just going to crowd fund games from already trusted developers with a good history of releasing good games whether those games were crowdfunded or not, at least for the big amount of money funded games.
Without the crowdfunded games, I fear we would be left with the massive amount of garbage that the AAA market (which is easily 95% of AAA gaming) has been shoveling out for more than a decade, where they put creativity and innovation into the trunk, or with the massive amount of indie games where 95% of them are garbage, and even then the good ones have a low production values.
The Crowdfunding games give a way for developers to be more into the AA market, where they can make great games with creativity and innovation in the drivers seat and have a much higher production value than indie games.
First of all I only have $60 into this, and won't be spending anymore I never spend more than $60 for any crowdfunded game.
I have seen extremely less ambitious games that were developed by more seasoned teams that took 7+ years to develop and were still excellent games when they released.
So with these games being far more ambitious is the reason why I do not expect the game for at least 8 years for one of them to release.
Some bumbs, scrapes, and bruises, and people making assumptions of their own do not scare me at all. Anybody who didn't expect any bumbs, bruises, and scrapes along the way and funded these games did so in great ignorance.
Besides, even with Alpha 2.6 I already had a great amount of fun out of it.
Don't regret spending the money 1 bit, and currently have no worries at all. Ask me again in 3+ years how I feel.
For you to continue believe a tracker put out by someone that has been being called on lies since 2012.... is truly stupid. You have 0 reason to trust CIG since they started breaking promises, you know 5 years ago, yet you do.
Serendipity strikes me as the kind of person that when hearing a nuclear warning siren, seeing hundreds of people running for cover, government emergency warnings playing on every TV channel and witnessing the sight of the nuke flying overhead would still demand to hear from somebody that witnessed the nuke itself being launched - preferably written confirmation from the person that launched it. At this point you're either being deliberately obtuse or you're frankly a bit of a special person and would do better on a kids forum rather than an adult forum like this.
You can extrapolate assumptions about the financial aspect of the company all you like but I prefer knowledge over guesswork.
Did you know there's a chocolate teapot in close orbit around the sun?
I know about that chocolate teapot. Chris told me about it and sold me a picture of a teacup that I can use to visit it.
(https://i.imgur.com/sd9b87V.png):laugh:
First of all I only have $60 into this, and won't be spending anymore I never spend more than $60 for any crowdfunded game.
That's a wise decisionQuoteI have seen extremely less ambitious games that were developed by more seasoned teams that took 7+ years to develop and were still excellent games when they released.
Such as?QuoteSo with these games being far more ambitious is the reason why I do not expect the game for at least 8 years for one of them to release.
OK then.QuoteSome bumbs, scrapes, and bruises, and people making assumptions of their own do not scare me at all. Anybody who didn't expect any bumbs, bruises, and scrapes along the way and funded these games did so in great ignorance.
They're not assumptions. They're opinions, and others are based on fact.
And yes, literally every single game development is riddled with challenges. And nobody is saying that Star Citizen can't or doesn't have those. That argument is a non-starter; as is the argument about it's "visual fidelity". NONE of those two issues are ever a topic for discussion because there is nothing to argue about there. Regardless of the fact that as to the visual fidelity, it already looks aged, compared to other recent and upcoming games, as well as the fact that their own foolish decision to focus on visual fidelity instead of engine capability, is why the game has been rife with performance issues that we've yet to see the worst (GC2017 was only the tip of the iceberg) of.
So now, what the on-going discourse is about, centers around very basic and straightforward FACTUAL things:
1) Arbitrarily increasing the scope of the original project that was pitched in 2012, thus invariably dooming it.
And before you say "Oh the community voted for that", don't - because they didn't (http://dereksmart.com/2016/06/star-citizen-fidelity-of-failure/#comment-3407). And IF they had, it was still up to Croberts to know where to stop. He didn't, because money was coming in as a result.
2) Removing and/or sidelining promised features which were already paid for through backer funding
e.g. private servers, VR, ability for friends to visit your hangar, and the list goes on (https://starcitizentracker.github.io/).
3) Consistently and systematically lying to backers - about pretty much, everything - while under the guise of "open development"
e.g. the 3.0 dev schedule (which has turned out to be confirmed as fiction) , the port to LumberYard which was in planning for over a year, but never disclosed until YE 2016; and then they lied about it. Not to mention the Star Marine debacle, the state of SQ42, the original game that most people backed in 2012
And the BIG one: knowing that SQ42 wasn't going to be shown because it wasn't ready, and knowing that they didn't actually have planetary tech working in the game engine, they went ahead and lied about literally every aspect of the project between AUG-OCT 2016 anyway. Then when they got busted (by me, as I was the first to proclaim that it was all R&D bullshit because of what sources told me) using an R&D demo being passed off as "in-game 3.0", they somehow managed to trot out a "The Road To CitizenCon" video, which conveniently precluded the events they were busted for. Because yeah, if you were upfront about something, the best course of action is to make a video proving that you lied ahead of telling those lies.
And to add insult to injury, in furtherance of those very same lies, Croberts went on stage and LIED about the status of the much anticipated 3.0.
And that was during and after raising over $5M as result of those very same events which, a year later at GC2017, have been confirmed to be lies much worse than we previously thought.
5) Using specially created R&D demos, passing them off as actual game features and/or mechanics - until they got busted doing it. Then the one time they actually came to a show to get around that, the world saw during GC2017 that the emperor had no knickers after all.
There's a very long list of this because it has been going on since 2014. Start here (http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=29.msg3623#msg3623).
6) Going back on promises made to backers, including the shameful rescission of rights backers once had in the original ToS (http://dereksmart.com/forums/topic/star-citizen-tos/). The same ToS which was based on a shallow "The Pledge" which they have routinely and disgracefully defaulted on - repeatedly.
7) The on-going tactics to rip off backers, while continuing to raise money to fund a train-wreck and line their pockets, when in fact the game - as overscoped back in Nov 2014, was already fully funded to the tune of $65M. And yet, even after being late, this November will be +3 years and almost +$95M later with the game NOWHERE near Beta status and NO vertical slice. Meanwhile, SQ42 is still MIA, though it was coming in 2015.
Then there was that time when Croberts claimed that 2.0 was "substantial" enough to refuse refunds (http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/1966/). I said it was bullshit. Some guy tested it with State authorities. And they agreed with me.
8) The continued promotion of a game they know - with certainty - cannot be built as pitched in Nov 2014, but still raising money (while taking out loans, investor money etc - and lying about or not disclosing it to backers) under the pretext of building said game. Which, going by past actions, the lies, obfuscation and deception will only come to light after the fact, and when it's too late for backers to do anything.
As I wrote in my recent GC2017 article (http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/5685/), if another publisher or dev was doing even 10% of the above, there would be an uproar. Not to mention that a publisher backed project would have been CANCELED by now - without question. And that's why, at this point, only the hardcore backers who refuse to accept the fact that i) they've been scammed ii) they're making a group of people rich iii) the game will never be a reality, are the ones carrying the torch, even as the rest of gaming continues to laugh.QuoteBesides, even with Alpha 2.6 I already had a great amount of fun out of it.
Don't regret spending the money 1 bit, and currently have no worries at all. Ask me again in 3+ years how I feel.
That's a perfectly OK stance because it's your money and you have the right to do as you wish with it. However, making excuses for the state and status of the project, while ignoring the larger picture and the missteps therein, is irresponsible, shallow, and disingenuous.
You can extrapolate assumptions about the financial aspect of the company all you like but I prefer knowledge over guesswork. They're paying 400 staff. They can't do that if they have don't have money. When staff start leaving for not having wages paid then I'll start to believe they have no money. Whilst staff are getting paid and offices getting expanded I'm happy ignoring the so called 'nuke' flying overhead and pointing and laughing at all the chicken littles running around screaming about the sky falling.
Fact remains until croberts decides to come clean and open up the books from scrutiny (which he will be forced to eventually whether by hook or by crook) the speculation will continue and to anyone with even a modicum of critical-thinking ability, things don't look good at all for croberts.You know, I'm a $65 backer from the KS drive (and nothing beyond that since), so instead of demanding a refund, I could demand the accounting books instead.
First of all I only have $60 into this, and won't be spending anymore I never spend more than $60 for any crowdfunded game.
That's a wise decisionQuoteI have seen extremely less ambitious games that were developed by more seasoned teams that took 7+ years to develop and were still excellent games when they released.
Such as?QuoteSo with these games being far more ambitious is the reason why I do not expect the game for at least 8 years for one of them to release.
OK then.QuoteSome bumbs, scrapes, and bruises, and people making assumptions of their own do not scare me at all. Anybody who didn't expect any bumbs, bruises, and scrapes along the way and funded these games did so in great ignorance.
They're not assumptions. They're opinions, and others are based on fact.
And yes, literally every single game development is riddled with challenges. And nobody is saying that Star Citizen can't or doesn't have those. That argument is a non-starter; as is the argument about it's "visual fidelity". NONE of those two issues are ever a topic for discussion because there is nothing to argue about there. Regardless of the fact that as to the visual fidelity, it already looks aged, compared to other recent and upcoming games, as well as the fact that their own foolish decision to focus on visual fidelity instead of engine capability, is why the game has been rife with performance issues that we've yet to see the worst (GC2017 was only the tip of the iceberg) of.
So now, what the on-going discourse is about, centers around very basic and straightforward FACTUAL things:
1) Arbitrarily increasing the scope of the original project that was pitched in 2012, thus invariably dooming it.
And before you say "Oh the community voted for that", don't - because they didn't (http://dereksmart.com/2016/06/star-citizen-fidelity-of-failure/#comment-3407). And IF they had, it was still up to Croberts to know where to stop. He didn't, because money was coming in as a result.
2) Removing and/or sidelining promised features which were already paid for through backer funding
e.g. private servers, VR, ability for friends to visit your hangar, and the list goes on (https://starcitizentracker.github.io/).
3) Consistently and systematically lying to backers - about pretty much, everything - while under the guise of "open development"
e.g. the 3.0 dev schedule (which has turned out to be confirmed as fiction) , the port to LumberYard which was in planning for over a year, but never disclosed until YE 2016; and then they lied about it. Not to mention the Star Marine debacle, the state of SQ42, the original game that most people backed in 2012
And the BIG one: knowing that SQ42 wasn't going to be shown because it wasn't ready, and knowing that they didn't actually have planetary tech working in the game engine, they went ahead and lied about literally every aspect of the project between AUG-OCT 2016 anyway. Then when they got busted (by me, as I was the first to proclaim that it was all R&D bullshit because of what sources told me) using an R&D demo being passed off as "in-game 3.0", they somehow managed to trot out a "The Road To CitizenCon" video, which conveniently precluded the events they were busted for. Because yeah, if you were upfront about something, the best course of action is to make a video proving that you lied ahead of telling those lies.
And to add insult to injury, in furtherance of those very same lies, Croberts went on stage and LIED about the status of the much anticipated 3.0.
And that was during and after raising over $5M as result of those very same events which, a year later at GC2017, have been confirmed to be lies much worse than we previously thought.
5) Using specially created R&D demos, passing them off as actual game features and/or mechanics - until they got busted doing it. Then the one time they actually came to a show to get around that, the world saw during GC2017 that the emperor had no knickers after all.
There's a very long list of this because it has been going on since 2014. Start here (http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=29.msg3623#msg3623).
6) Going back on promises made to backers, including the shameful rescission of rights backers once had in the original ToS (http://dereksmart.com/forums/topic/star-citizen-tos/). The same ToS which was based on a shallow "The Pledge" which they have routinely and disgracefully defaulted on - repeatedly.
7) The on-going tactics to rip off backers, while continuing to raise money to fund a train-wreck and line their pockets, when in fact the game - as overscoped back in Nov 2014, was already fully funded to the tune of $65M. And yet, even after being late, this November will be +3 years and almost +$95M later with the game NOWHERE near Beta status and NO vertical slice. Meanwhile, SQ42 is still MIA, though it was coming in 2015.
Then there was that time when Croberts claimed that 2.0 was "substantial" enough to refuse refunds (http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/1966/). I said it was bullshit. Some guy tested it with State authorities. And they agreed with me.
8) The continued promotion of a game they know - with certainty - cannot be built as pitched in Nov 2014, but still raising money (while taking out loans, investor money etc - and lying about or not disclosing it to backers) under the pretext of building said game. Which, going by past actions, the lies, obfuscation and deception will only come to light after the fact, and when it's too late for backers to do anything.
As I wrote in my recent GC2017 article (http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/5685/), if another publisher or dev was doing even 10% of the above, there would be an uproar. Not to mention that a publisher backed project would have been CANCELED by now - without question. And that's why, at this point, only the hardcore backers who refuse to accept the fact that i) they've been scammed ii) they're making a group of people rich iii) the game will never be a reality, are the ones carrying the torch, even as the rest of gaming continues to laugh.QuoteBesides, even with Alpha 2.6 I already had a great amount of fun out of it.
Don't regret spending the money 1 bit, and currently have no worries at all. Ask me again in 3+ years how I feel.
That's a perfectly OK stance because it's your money and you have the right to do as you wish with it. However, making excuses for the state and status of the project, while ignoring the larger picture and the missteps therein, is irresponsible, shallow, and disingenuous.
Star Citizen is the only odd ball one here, for more than 1 reason, but I am not worried about that project. I might start to get a little worried when they reach year 8 from when the kickstarter ended, if they have not released one of the games, So late 2020 early 2021.
:vince:QuoteAnyways, Kickstarter/crowdfund have been a great thing for PC gaming.
Not really. The number of crowdfunded games is minuscule compared to those that weren't. No, it hasn't made a single dent to the PC game numbers.QuoteIf anything it has only changed to the point where people are just going to crowd fund games from already trusted developers with a good history of releasing good games whether those games were crowdfunded or not, at least for the big amount of money funded games.
No it's not. Have you been keeping track of how many projects from mainstream devs which never got funded?
Did you read my post from earlier in this thread where I posted various analysis from ICO about videogame crowd-funding trends?QuoteWithout the crowdfunded games, I fear we would be left with the massive amount of garbage that the AAA market (which is easily 95% of AAA gaming) has been shoveling out for more than a decade, where they put creativity and innovation into the trunk, or with the massive amount of indie games where 95% of them are garbage, and even then the good ones have a low production values.
Wrong again. Going by the huge popularity of triple A games, even going by the numbers of those that faltered recently such as COD:IW, ME:A, the number of those games continues to do well because fans stick with what they know and want to play. And for devs/pubs, sequels or copies are always a safe bet.
If gamers weren't buying those games, devs/pubs won't be making them. So clearly the minority think they are garbage. And minority opinions don't pay the bills.
The reason that most indie games are not up to par is because of the low barrier to entry in developing and publishing games. When you reduce that bar, that's what you get. Then game development is no longer an exclusive club. It's no different from any other form of creative media such as books, movies, or music.
As an example, since I started out, I knew that the type of games that I wanted to make, weren't going to appeal to a lot of people. So, just like flight sims from back in the day, I carved out a niche market for my games, stuck with it, and almost 30 years later, aside from the short detour to do an RTS (Line Of Defense Tactics (http://lodgame.com/tactics/)) which did surprisingly well, I have stuck with those same games because my install base kept buying them. And over the years, that install base grew. It's the same reason that the DCS flight sims are the de facto standard today, because that market is dead, but there are core simmers like myself who still support it.QuoteThe Crowdfunding games give a way for developers to be more into the AA market, where they can make great games with creativity and innovation in the drivers seat and have a much higher production value than indie games.
No it wasn't and didn't. It also contradicts your early statement. It was just an alternate form of funding for developing games. Whether those games turned out good or bad - or great - is largely irrelevant because financial expense is never the correct metric for judging the quality of a released product. This is evident by the apparent flops of multi-million Dollar games.
What crowdfunding did was give the consumer an even bigger voice for showing that there is still a market for certain kind of games that the market has largely forgot about. And as a result, crowdfunded or not, we have been seeing more and more developers take on developing those kinds of games since that time.
A company can be publically HIRING TENS OF THOUSANDS of people one minute and a minute later LAYING OFF TENS OF THOUSANDS of people.
You know, I'm a $65 backer from the KS drive (and nothing beyond that since), so instead of demanding a refund, I could demand the accounting books instead.
The only thing I didn't predict is when you did get involved, I didn't think it would become what looks like a huge crusade.
Want to show big publishers you’re voting with your credits? Pick up this special spacecraft skin honoring the RSI crowdfunding campaign!
Note: The functionality to apply skins has not been implemented yet and will be available at some point in the future!
What crowdfunding did was give the consumer an even bigger voice for showing that there is still a market for certain kind of games that the market has largely forgot about. And as a result, crowdfunded or not, we have been seeing more and more developers take on developing those kinds of games since that time.
Hello, friend. It's annoying when you're leading the same discussion in multiple threads. Could you kindly find a subreddit for crowdfunding discussions and continue there? KTHXBYE
How he got involved has nothing to do with what I was expecting before all of it happened.A company can be publically HIRING TENS OF THOUSANDS of people one minute and a minute later LAYING OFF TENS OF THOUSANDS of people.
That may be true for the USA, but in The Netherlands for one, it's not so easy to fire employees. They're heavily protected.You know, I'm a $65 backer from the KS drive (and nothing beyond that since), so instead of demanding a refund, I could demand the accounting books instead.
You'd be doing the whole world a big favor if you actually did that. But I highly doubt Chris will listen to Kickstarter demands. But do try, please.The only thing I didn't predict is when you did get involved, I didn't think it would become what looks like a huge crusade.
Did you bother to read how Derek got involved? That Chris has brought it onto himself? Doesn't seem so.
A company can be publically HIRING TENS OF THOUSANDS of people one minute and a minute later LAYING OFF TENS OF THOUSANDS of people.
That may be true for the USA, but in The Netherlands for one, it's not so easy to fire employees. They're heavily protected.
F42 is in the UK where you can fire staff easily.
As you say it is also true of the USA where CIG have staff in numbers.
OFC there are contractors and temp staff .. and if it goes bankrupt not being able to reduce headcount would be a reason for doing so.
All lot of things have happend that nobody was expecting :D
All lot of things have happend that nobody was expecting :D
Have I missed something? Have the ELE- Layoffs started already? Source?
Do you have more details about what exactly left at 08/31? Where, how many, what positions, stuff like that?
Do you have more details about what exactly left at 08/31? Where, how many, what positions, stuff like that?
That's one. Can't wait to see more names and numbers. I'd wish Derek would hurry up with the big reveal. I've had the first mod visit on Reddit and they like to see me gone. I'd love to drop the big one there too :D
Pssssst, there is no 'big one' to drop. It's just the usual lies.
Their body language speaks volumes this entire episode, lots of looking away, poor eye contact, hands not acting in straight lines with line of vision, all tell tale signs of someone lying/being disingenuous. The eyebrows middle raised guy is a tell tale sign of anxiety, that or surprise and he's not being caught of guard im betting with this atv
They're closing the UK office?
They're closing the UK office?
Their body language speaks volumes this entire episode, lots of looking away, poor eye contact, hands not acting in straight lines with line of vision, all tell tale signs of someone lying/being disingenuous. The eyebrows middle raised guy is a tell tale sign of anxiety, that or surprise and he's not being caught of guard im betting with this atv
They're closing the UK office?
No, how I see it, Studio 42 is in reality their main holding, it'll be the center point of any contraction. US holdings go first, pulling back toward their EU holdings, then lights out.
They're closing the UK office?
No, how I see it, Studio 42 is in reality their main holding, it'll be the center point of any contraction. US holdings go first, pulling back toward their EU holdings, then lights out.
CIG-LA // Chris, Sandi, corporate
CIG-TX // Chris's friends (e.g. Tony Z et al), tech ops, PU dev
F42-GER // CryTek refugees, engine dev
F42-UK (Manchester) // Chris's brother Erin, SQ42, CS and God knows what else since they're clearly not working on SQ42
F42-UK (Derby) // Contingency plan for F42-UK downsizing most likely, since there's NO need for a studio just for face tech
F42-UK is the main and largest studio. Also Chris can escape and stay over there.
All the other studios are 100% expendable, and can be closed.
Interesting, they might be able to shed staff over a period of time without raising too many eyebrows but closing a studio would be catastrophic.
I can't believe they'd go that far.
They're closing the UK office?
No, how I see it, Studio 42 is in reality their main holding, it'll be the center point of any contraction. US holdings go first, pulling back toward their EU holdings, then lights out.
CIG-LA // Chris, Sandi, corporate
CIG-TX // Chris's friends (e.g. Tony Z et al), tech ops, PU dev
F42-GER // CryTek refugees, engine dev
F42-UK (Manchester) // Chris's brother Erin, SQ42, CS and God knows what else since they're clearly not working on SQ42
F42-UK (Derby) // Contingency plan for F42-UK downsizing most likely, since there's NO need for a studio just for face tech
F42-UK is the main and largest studio. Also Chris can escape and stay over there.
All the other studios are 100% expendable, and can be closed.
Which is exactly as I see it also, if they are even able to execute a corporate strategy in this regard.
List of Retraction,
1) Austin
2) LA
3) Germany
4) UK, Derby
5) UK, Manchester
Though as you indicated, they might retract Derby into Manchester 1st, or soon after Austin gets sucked into the blackhole.
I still think in the end it's going to be a high speed cratering event, right into the ground @ Mach 5.
Derby is cheaper than Manchester. Since they are apparently getting a bigger office for Derby, it makes sense if they relocate/fire some of the workforce in Manchester and have a small op in Derby. They could also significantly downsize Manchester and still hang on to it and Derby.
That's one. Can't wait to see more names and numbers. I'd wish Derek would hurry up with the big reveal. I've had the first mod visit on Reddit and they like to see me gone. I'd love to drop the big one there too :D
Is that 5% a year? So in CIGs case we'd be talking 20 leavers a year or so. I think it's considerably fewer than that. Sounds like a very happy workforce overall then. Nice.
They're closing the UK office?
No, how I see it, Studio 42 is in reality their main holding, it'll be the center point of any contraction. US holdings go first, pulling back toward their EU holdings, then lights out.
CIG-LA // Chris, Sandi, corporate
CIG-TX // Chris's friends (e.g. Tony Z et al), tech ops, PU dev
F42-GER // CryTek refugees, engine dev
F42-UK (Manchester) // Chris's brother Erin, SQ42, CS and God knows what else since they're clearly not working on SQ42
F42-UK (Derby) // Contingency plan for F42-UK downsizing most likely, since there's NO need for a studio just for face tech
F42-UK is the main and largest studio. Also Chris can escape and stay over there.
All the other studios are 100% expendable, and can be closed.
Which is exactly as I see it also, if they are even able to execute a corporate strategy in this regard.
List of Retraction,
1) Austin
2) LA
3) Germany
4) UK, Derby
5) UK, Manchester
Though as you indicated, they might retract Derby into Manchester 1st, or soon after Austin gets sucked into the blackhole.
I still think in the end it's going to be a high speed cratering event, right into the ground @ Mach 5.
Derby is cheaper than Manchester. Since they are apparently getting a bigger office for Derby, it makes sense if they relocate/fire some of the workforce in Manchester and have a small op in Derby. They could also significantly downsize Manchester and still hang on to it and Derby.
I really don't see the point in your comments here. "There's no big one", "seems like a nice company with a happy workforce", stuff like that, are all those remarks just to ruffle some feathers? Rattle some cages? See if anyone here takes the bait? Or just trolling a bit?
The thing is, you have absolutely no evidence of the turn-over at CIG. So by stating "I think it's considerably less" you are doing the same thing you accuse Derek of. Pot calling the kettle black kinda thing. The difference being that Derek does have some contacts within CIG and you don't.
It'll be fun to collect all your statements though, you know, after Derek has been proven right.
That's one. Can't wait to see more names and numbers. I'd wish Derek would hurry up with the big reveal. I've had the first mod visit on Reddit and they like to see me gone. I'd love to drop the big one there too :D
You do realize that people leaving a company is not a sign of anything, right? I work for one of the most highest rated companies in the world for employee satisfaction, and we still get people who leave on their own volition for various reasons all the while were still very happy with the company they are leaving.
Unless there is some kind of real proof that layoffs are happening, people leaving means nothing at all.
That's one. Can't wait to see more names and numbers. I'd wish Derek would hurry up with the big reveal. I've had the first mod visit on Reddit and they like to see me gone. I'd love to drop the big one there too :D
You do realize that people leaving a company is not a sign of anything, right? I work for one of the most highest rated companies in the world for employee satisfaction, and we still get people who leave on their own volition for various reasons all the while were still very happy with the company they are leaving.
Unless there is some kind of real proof that layoffs are happening, people leaving means nothing at all.
They were not very happy that is why they left. However, yes, it is normal for people to move jobs for reasons other than they are mightily pissed off with their employer - that just helps.
Derby is cheaper than Manchester. Since they are apparently getting a bigger office for Derby, it makes sense if they relocate/fire some of the workforce in Manchester and have a small op in Derby. They could also significantly downsize Manchester and still hang on to it and Derby.
Question I would have to pose is what is the lease agreement on the Manchester studios? I seem to remember seeing posts indicating that they still had multiple years on it, and it wasn't a cheap lease. Either way if they do start to contract it will cost them money to get out of any remaining years they have on the studios they are closing.
Which brings me back to my original hypothesis. I don't think they can contract in an orderly fashion, and still stay solvent. Doing so, in my view, would be a fatal blow to the illusion of progress that they're doing their damnedest to maintain. What we saw at GamesCon '17, and what we'll see at CitizenCon '17, shit shows as they were, and will be. Pale in comparison to layoffs, and public closures
of studios.
I think their first closure will be their final closure, so to speak. I think they know that, and even the dimmest bulb in all the studios, has to be seeing the light, and have that sinking feeling you get in your gut when, you're caught squarely between the hammer, and the digital anvil...
That's one. Can't wait to see more names and numbers. I'd wish Derek would hurry up with the big reveal. I've had the first mod visit on Reddit and they like to see me gone. I'd love to drop the big one there too :D
You do realize that people leaving a company is not a sign of anything, right? I work for one of the most highest rated companies in the world for employee satisfaction, and we still get people who leave on their own volition for various reasons all the while were still very happy with the company they are leaving.
Unless there is some kind of real proof that layoffs are happening, people leaving means nothing at all.
I really don't see the point in your comments here. "There's no big one", "seems like a nice company with a happy workforce", stuff like that, are all those remarks just to ruffle some feathers? Rattle some cages? See if anyone here takes the bait? Or just trolling a bit?
The thing is, you have absolutely no evidence of the turn-over at CIG. So by stating "I think it's considerably less" you are doing the same thing you accuse Derek of. Pot calling the kettle black kinda thing. The difference being that Derek does have some contacts within CIG and you don't.
It'll be fun to collect all your statements though, you know, after Derek has been proven right.
We have yet seen any proof of Derek Smart having any contacts within CIG. There is absolutely nothing he has ever said that convinced he ever has.
We have yet seen any proof of Derek Smart having any contacts within CIG. There is absolutely nothing he has ever said that convinced he ever has.
I really don't see the point in your comments here. "There's no big one", "seems like a nice company with a happy workforce", stuff like that, are all those remarks just to ruffle some feathers? Rattle some cages? See if anyone here takes the bait? Or just trolling a bit?
The thing is, you have absolutely no evidence of the turn-over at CIG. So by stating "I think it's considerably less" you are doing the same thing you accuse Derek of. Pot calling the kettle black kinda thing. The difference being that Derek does have some contacts within CIG and you don't.
It'll be fun to collect all your statements though, you know, after Derek has been proven right.
We have yet seen any proof of Derek Smart having any contacts within CIG. There is absolutely nothing he has ever said that convinced he ever has.
That's your problem, not mine. And nobody cares, except you guys on /r/ds.
I am not here, and never was here, to convince anyone of anything. I don't control what people do with their money, and I don't care. And I don't care what they choose to believe. That's not my thing, and it never was.
I care about one single thing: vindication (because I know with 100% certainty, that I am right about my assessment) for having been dragged into a shit-storm in which a group of people, mad over a fucking video game, have taken upon themselves to engage in targeted harassment of me, my team, my family, my games etc. All because I wrote a blog.
It's hilarious that with all your heads buried in the sand, even as most everything I write about, coming true (even as you guys ignore them until they happen), this notion of "sources", is all you guys care about. As if that's somehow important. Whether I have sources or not, or just making shit up on the fly, it's all irrelevant because the project is on the decline, is the industry laughing stock, is an on-going active scam, and stands NO chance of EVER becoming a reality.
first of all I don't even know what /r/ds is, so who ever these other guys are I have no idea what you are talking about.
Well so far you have not been vindicated at all, you never said anything that has ever convinced me you were ever right.
As far as I can tell you know just as much as anybody else outside of CIG. Of everything I have read of yours, the only thing you are right about is the game did not release in 2014. Everything else saying you are "right" is flimsy at best in my opinion.
I use critical thinking for everything I read, and so far what you have written leaves much to be desired. Unless I missed something, I can't think of anything you said that came true that wasn't already expected.
Till something actually happens that you straight out says will happen that nobody else expected, I see no reason to believe you at all.
first of all I don't even know what /r/ds is, so who ever these other guys are I have no idea what you are talking about.
uh-huh, OKQuoteWell so far you have not been vindicated at all, you never said anything that has ever convinced me you were ever right.
Either your reading comprehension skills are lacking, or you didn't read what I wrote. Where did I say I was vindicated? Please show it to me.QuoteAs far as I can tell you know just as much as anybody else outside of CIG. Of everything I have read of yours, the only thing you are right about is the game did not release in 2014. Everything else saying you are "right" is flimsy at best in my opinion.
uh-huh, OK.QuoteI use critical thinking for everything I read, and so far what you have written leaves much to be desired. Unless I missed something, I can't think of anything you said that came true that wasn't already expected.
Again, that's on you. Nobody cares. I know I don't.QuoteTill something actually happens that you straight out says will happen that nobody else expected, I see no reason to believe you at all.
You keep repeating yourself as if you're trying to convince yourself. I can tell you with certainty, that you're not convincing anyone here. Nobody cares what you think, how you think it, or why. We all have our opinions which we're entitled to. If you, for some reason, think you're important enough that anyone here has to be concerned about your frame of mind and/or what you think of my (or anyone else's) input regarding this on-going scam, then fucking :lol: man, you're on the wrong part of town.
You misunderstood what I said. You said you only cared about vindication. My point is, despite you saying you have been right about many things, you haven't been vindicated on anything you claim to be right about at this point. So there is no reason to believe that you will be vindicated in the end either.
I care about one single thing: vindication (because I know with 100% certainty, that I am right about my assessment) for having been dragged into a shit-storm in which a group of people, mad over a fucking video game, have taken upon themselves to engage in targeted harassment of me, my team, my family, my games etc. All because I wrote a blog.
Really it is on you to actually prove the things you say, which thus far you have not. It is on you that I don't believe you, that is your problem.
I don't need to convince myself to not believe you, you are the one that is failing to convince me or any other person like me who uses critical thinking while looking at real evidence.
But you actually do seem to care about trying to convince people, which is why you spend so much time on Twitter, blogs, ect trying to convince people that everything is a scam. I am not here to convince anybody here of anything, cause I already know that everybody here, with a few exceptions, are full of people that are already believing you.
You sure do seem to get overly emotional over someone saying they simply do not believe you, I don't see any reason for doing such things.
You could start with the ever-changing ToS which, effective May 31st, 2016 from their inability to deliver as promised, requires them to provide not only refunds, but also a financial accounting of how the money raised from backers, has been spent. They’re unlikely to do it. And there is a reason that they shifted that date from 12 months (expired Nov 30th, 2015) to 18 months (expires May 31st 2016).
I used to be interested in LoD, and it seemed like you used to make a lot more progress prior to your crusade against Star Citizen. Then as time went by I saw the development of LoD really come to a crawl ever since you started your crusade with SC. You really do seem obsessed with Star Citizen, and that is why I feel you are emotional about it, cause your 2 other projects seem to have suffered because of it.
I used to be interested in LoD, and it seemed like you used to make a lot more progress prior to your crusade against Star Citizen. Then as time went by I saw the development of LoD really come to a crawl ever since you started your crusade with SC. You really do seem obsessed with Star Citizen, and that is why I feel you are emotional about it, cause your 2 other projects seem to have suffered because of it.
It's cute that you think LoD dev came to a crawl (http://lodgame.com/changelog/). Nice try. Our last major patch was in March (FYI, the last major SC patch was in April). If we don't have anything new to release, we don't release it. What's there gets on-going testing using our internal server. Aside from the fact that we're doing a port to UE4 in tandem for our console versions. For someone who was "interested" in LoD, you would actually know this if you were following it because I've written several dev blogs (http://lodgame.com/blog/) and dev status updates (http://lodgame.com/news/) about it.
Deflecting Star Citizen discussions to make it about LoD, isn't going to work. Don't bother.
New totally-not-fake schedule (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/schedule-report) is up, and I just got the latest newsletter (which hilariously has stamina as the topic highlight).
(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/94fmtrtu3xfkkr/source/Remainingfix_090817.png)
After a solid week of bug fixing and triage, we are happy to report that the critical issue list for Star Citizen Alpha 3.0 Evocati is heading back in the right direction. Last week we reported that list had jumped up to 94 major bugs thanks to issues discovered during our Gamescom demos, but this week they received our full attention with a heavy dose of bugsmashing and were brought down to 76. Alongside the triage and bugfixing, we’ve continued to review key features (this week we tackled Comms and Missions), to consider any extra work needed, then we will update the plan for these features for delivery to Evocati, Public PTU, 3.0 LIve, and beyond, as necessary.
This burn down Evocati window is coming to a close soon. Even though this process can be a bit of a rollercoaster ride with crazy fluctuations, even day to day, we feel providing you with this sort of transparency in our development is something of value as you continue this journey with us. We’ll be back next week with further updates as we draw ever closer to 3.0’s unveiling for all our backers.
Completed: 0
Delayed: 5
Remaining: 8
Cockpit Experience - ETA is TBD (was 5th September)
Vehicle Customizer App - ETA is 11th September (was 4th September)
UI Engineering have been working to fix a few blocking issues in the Vehicle Customisation code to allow them to continue their work in the way they need. These bugs have taken more time than anticipated, which has impacted the completion estimate.
Ship Selector App & Insurance Claim - ETA is 12th September (was 4th September)
Further bugfixing support on other systems was required over the last week. The UI team is aiming to have this completed by early next week.
Comms System UI - ETA Removed
The entire comms system will undergo final implementation review next week. Should there be any further requirements for UI, these will be identified in that review and estimated out.
Mission System - ETA is TBD (was 1st September)
Feedback from the review is still being estimated out.
- COCKPIT EXPERIENCE
- MISSION GIVERS
- CHARACTER CUSTOMIZATION
- VEHICLE CUSTOMIZER APP
- SHIP SELECTOR APP & INSURANCE CLAIM
- COMMS SYSTEM UI
- MISSION SYSTEM
- ADDITIONAL SURFACE OUTPOSTS
I wasn't trying to deflect it to be about LOD, rather I was explaining why I feel you are so emotionally invested into Star Citizen, to the point of it effecting the rest of your life in a bad way.
There is more I can say about LOD and the evidence about the development has come to a crawl, but like I said that wasn't my point anyways.
yes, you are misunderstanding, but we could go on forever like the Monty Python argument skit.
yes, you are misunderstanding, but we could go on forever like the Monty Python argument skit.
Just give it a rest buddy, you're not going to get anywhere personally attacking Derek here. If you want to have a full on anti-Derek nerdgasm, take your bunched up panties over to https://www.reddit.com/r/DerekSmart/ and fly them as high as you can on that flag pole...
yes, you are misunderstanding, but we could go on forever like the Monty Python argument skit.
Just give it a rest buddy, you're not going to get anywhere personally attacking Derek here. If you want to have a full on anti-Derek nerdgasm, take your bunched up panties over to https://www.reddit.com/r/DerekSmart/ and fly them as high as you can on that flag pole...
I already issued him a warning and deleted his last missive. Next up, he's getting banned. We're just not going to tolerate that here.
That's the thing with these guys, the minute they end up on the wrong side of an argument, the resort to personal attacks.
See how he just flat out ignored my post about the E.L.E blog in which I pointed out two key issues that I predicted and which were relevant to whatever he was claiming. He ignored it, but moved right on to the personal attacks.
We know he's from /r/ds and we'll soon find out who he is, just like we unmasked others (e.g. ConfusedMonkeh aka Serendipity) before him. They simply can't help themselves and it doesn't take long before they out themselves.
I already issued him a warning and deleted his last missive. Next up, he's getting banned. We're just not going to tolerate that here.
That's the thing with these guys, the minute they end up on the wrong side of an argument, the resort to personal attacks.
See how he just flat out ignored my post about the E.L.E blog in which I pointed out two key issues that I predicted and which were relevant to whatever he was claiming. He ignored it, but moved right on to the personal attacks.
We know he's from /r/ds and we'll soon find out who he is, just like we unmasked others (e.g. ConfusedMonkeh aka Serendipity) before him. They simply can't help themselves and it doesn't take long before they out themselves.
I suspect one of the games (SC or SQ42) to release in 3 or 4 years from now, and the other to come out sometime after that.Assuming the primary platform of that 2011 CryEngine still exists in 2022 (I doubt it, Windows PC is on its way out). From where do another 160 million dollars of funding come from?
I suspect one of the games (SC or SQ42) to release in 3 or 4 years from now, and the other to come out sometime after that.Assuming the primary platform of that 2011 CryEngine still exists in 2022 (I doubt it, Windows PC is on its way out). From where do another 160 million dollars of funding come from?
I suspect one of the games (SC or SQ42) to release in 3 or 4 years from now, and the other to come out sometime after that.
I suspect one of the games (SC or SQ42) to release in 3 or 4 years from now, and the other to come out sometime after that.
Based on what?
I suspect one of the games (SC or SQ42) to release in 3 or 4 years from now, and the other to come out sometime after that.
Based on what?
I already answered this early in this thread, around page 70.
And I disagree about Chris Roberts lying about when things would be released, otherwise you would have to say every single developer is a liar when ever they have something that is late, I don't call them liars unless there is actual proof that when they gave the release date they knew it was not possible. Chris Roberts has always been bad at giving good release dates, it is one of his flaws among his perfectionism and his management style, and this is all stuff I knew before I put my $60 into this game.
I suspect one of the games (SC or SQ42) to release in 3 or 4 years from now, and the other to come out sometime after that.
Based on what?
I already answered this early in this thread, around page 70.
And I disagree about Chris Roberts lying about when things would be released, otherwise you would have to say every single developer is a liar when ever they have something that is late, I dont't call them liars unless there is actual proof that when they gave the release date they knew it was not possible. Chris Roberts has always been bad at giving good release dates, it is one of his flaws among his perfectionism and his management style, and this is all stuff I knew before I put my $60 into this game.
I suspect one of the games (SC or SQ42) to release in 3 or 4 years from now, and the other to come out sometime after that.
Based on what?
I already answered this early in this thread, around page 70.
And I disagree about Chris Roberts lying about when things would be released, otherwise you would have to say every single developer is a liar when ever they have something that is late, I don't call them liars unless there is actual proof that when they gave the release date they knew it was not possible. Chris Roberts has always been bad at giving good release dates, it is one of his flaws among his perfectionism and his management style, and this is all stuff I knew before I put my $60 into this game.
What you are describing is not to far from "Cult of Personality". Believe what you want its your money. I paraphrase - "We are delaying 3.0 until Dec 2016 for more polish" It is not released and over 6 mos. later it has been scaled back and is still months away according to their own reports. That is not misjudging a date - that is giving a release date they know is not possible, otherwise known as a lie. But hey, spin it any way you want to maintain your croberts worship level. When is croberts advancement to sainthood scheduled?
Saying I worship Chris Roberts is a personal insult. /rolleyes
You know nothing about me.
It is not cult thinking, it is not worship, it was fully knowing exactly what my money was going into with all the risks associated with it, also knowing about Chris Roberts and all of his faults.
Saying I worship Chris Roberts is a personal insult. /rolleyes
You know nothing about me.
It is not cult thinking, it is not worship, it was fully knowing exactly what my money was going into with all the risks associated with it, also knowing about Chris Roberts and all of his faults. And SC/SQ42 was far from biggest reason why I pledged in the first place, the 2 games are only a very small reason.
Saying I worship Chris Roberts is a personal insult. /rolleyes
You know nothing about me.
It is not cult thinking, it is not worship, it was fully knowing exactly what my money was going into with all the risks associated with it, also knowing about Chris Roberts and all of his faults.
The thing is, people who belong to a cult don't realise they are in one until they've left. Everything you've posted here already demonstrates a massive lack of critical thinking towards Chris Roberts and CIG.
At some point in the future when all this has finally collapsed you're going to take a step back and say 'What the fuck was I thinking'.
Saying I worship Chris Roberts is a personal insult. /rolleyes
You know nothing about me.
It is not cult thinking, it is not worship, it was fully knowing exactly what my money was going into with all the risks associated with it, also knowing about Chris Roberts and all of his faults. And SC/SQ42 was far from biggest reason why I pledged in the first place, the 2 games are only a very small reason.
If you have already studied all of Croberts faults, and after all of that you still decided that adding your own money to the bonfire was something you absolutely needed to do.
Then what really was your motivation?
Seriously that's the only traction you're going to get on this forum based on you previous responses...
Proof attached covering the time span since Star Citizen is in production.Assuming the primary platform of that 2011 CryEngine still exists in 2022 (I doubt it, Windows PC is on its way out). From where do another 160 million dollars of funding come from?Windows PC is far from being on the way out. People have been saying that PC gaming is dying for many decades now, and there is no indication that PC gaming or even Windows PC is going to "die".
Also I doubt Amazon is going to abandon Lumberyard any time soon.Amazon doesn't care about PC gaming, Lumberyard is a cross platform engine.
Proof attached covering the time span since Star Citizen is in production.Assuming the primary platform of that 2011 CryEngine still exists in 2022 (I doubt it, Windows PC is on its way out). From where do another 160 million dollars of funding come from?Windows PC is far from being on the way out. People have been saying that PC gaming is dying for many decades now, and there is no indication that PC gaming or even Windows PC is going to "die".
There is a reason why Microsoft is in panic mode since 2015.
There is a reason why publishers turned Chris Roberts down.
You evaded the question about the additional funding.QuoteAlso I doubt Amazon is going to abandon Lumberyard any time soon.Amazon doesn't care about PC gaming, Lumberyard is a cross platform engine.
We will know things are really bad if they move their office to Hull.
This industry is one of the most difficult to get into. So people don't just leave without a good reason.
Assuming the primary platform of that 2011 CryEngine still exists in 2022 (I doubt it, Windows PC is on its way out). From where do another 160 million dollars of funding come from?Proof attached covering the time span since Star Citizen is in production.
There is nothing to say about funding, currently they keep on increasing in funds.You mean they keep in increasing in liabilities aka debt.
You mean they keep in increasing in liabilities aka debt.
But this isn't going much longer, here is the freshly made shell firm https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10934694 which is most likely going to hold all the IP rights, while the backer debt ends up elsewhere. Derek Smart was right, this is going to end with people in jail.
I suspect one of the games (SC or SQ42) to release in 3 or 4 years from now, and the other to come out sometime after that.Assuming the primary platform of that 2011 CryEngine still exists in 2022 (I doubt it, Windows PC is on its way out). From where do another 160 million dollars of funding come from?
Windows PC is far from being on the way out. People have been saying that PC gaming is dying for many decades now, and there is no indication that PC gaming or even Windows PC is going to "die". Also I doubt Amazon is going to abandon Lumberyard any time soon.
I suspect one of the games (SC or SQ42) to release in 3 or 4 years from now, and the other to come out sometime after that.
Based on what? The supporters of SC are actually doing the things they accuse DS of doing? MAKING STUFF UP! Game was supposed to be out years ago, and that's straight from the mouth of croberts. All DS does is take the information spewed forth from croberts and co. and uses his experience in the industry to explain why delay upon delay is occurring, why they will deplete funds prior to releasing the full game (which is no longer what was initially promised), and gives his opinions.
croberts has outright lied to you and all your other SC brethren,("3.0 will be released Dec 2016"), why do you have such blind faith in croberts? What has he done to prove to anyone that he will come through in the end?
What croberts excels at is marketing - lots of pretty pictures, videos, R&D demos to suck people in - They have accomplished nothing since Dec. 2016. The 3.0 he announced back then has been shrunk and delayed, shrunk and delayed. I ask again, what has croberts done besides make grandiose promises that have been scaled back and still only have a tech demo alpha to show for it? After 6 +years.
I pledged back in Oct 2012. I got out last year. Not because of anything DS wrote, but because it was pretty easy to see all the red flags popping up on this project. It was no longer the game I pledged my money towards.
You mean they keep in increasing in liabilities aka debt.
But this isn't going much longer, here is the freshly made shell firm https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10934694 which is most likely going to hold all the IP rights, while the backer debt ends up elsewhere. Derek Smart was right, this is going to end with people in jail.
I suspect one of the games (SC or SQ42) to release in 3 or 4 years from now, and the other to come out sometime after that.
Based on what?
I already answered this early in this thread, around page 70.
And I disagree about Chris Roberts lying about when things would be released, otherwise you would have to say every single developer is a liar when ever they have something that is late, I dont't call them liars unless there is actual proof that when they gave the release date they knew it was not possible. Chris Roberts has always been bad at giving good release dates, it is one of his flaws among his perfectionism and his management style, and this is all stuff I knew before I put my $60 into this game.
There is nothing to say about funding, currently they keep on increasing in funds.You mean they keep in increasing in liabilities aka debt.
But this isn't going much longer, here is the freshly made shell firm https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10934694 which is most likely going to hold all the IP rights, while the backer debt ends up elsewhere. Derek Smart was right, this is going to end with people in jail.
Wauw, how did you find that one? That's huge :vince:
So, they are trying to get the IP(s) into a separate shell. Are they about to lose it all to Coutts because they're behind on payments? Or just running for a bankruptcy construction where they shed all the current debts and restart with the money left? Without having to keep any of the old promises?
This probably is part of the story Derek has been hinting about. Oh man, I wish he'd got the all clear already :f5: :supaburn: :f5: :supaburn:
Is that 5% a year? So in CIGs case we'd be talking 20 leavers a year or so. I think it's considerably fewer than that. Sounds like a very happy workforce overall then. Nice.
Actually a 10% turn over rate is considered a healthy turnover rate, and yes that is per year.
http://www.gallup.com/businessjournal/316/truth-about-turnover.aspx
I wasn't trying to deflect it to be about LOD, rather I was explaining why I feel you are so emotionally invested into Star Citizen, to the point of it effecting the rest of your life in a bad way.
I suspect one of the games (SC or SQ42) to release in 3 or 4 years from now, and the other to come out sometime after that.
Based on what?
I already answered this early in this thread, around page 70.
And I disagree about Chris Roberts lying about when things would be released, otherwise you would have to say every single developer is a liar when ever they have something that is late, I dont't call them liars unless there is actual proof that when they gave the release date they knew it was not possible. Chris Roberts has always been bad at giving good release dates, it is one of his flaws among his perfectionism and his management style, and this is all stuff I knew before I put my $60 into this game.
Saying I worship Chris Roberts is a personal insult. /rolleyes
You know nothing about me.
It is not cult thinking, it is not worship, it was fully knowing exactly what my money was going into with all the risks associated with it, also knowing about Chris Roberts and all of his faults.
Is that 5% a year? So in CIGs case we'd be talking 20 leavers a year or so. I think it's considerably fewer than that. Sounds like a very happy workforce overall then. Nice.
Actually a 10% turn over rate is considered a healthy turnover rate, and yes that is per year.
http://www.gallup.com/businessjournal/316/truth-about-turnover.aspx
If you have sources to show that points the way that CIG has a higher turn over rate than normal, provide some numbers to show how many people CIG has lost per year, then I would
*mod censored* :science:
Derek is a developer of some 40 years, I am a recruitment consultant of some 20 years. You appear to have sited some claim in a piece about SALES STAFF.
What experts tell you is not sufficient evidence for you, you prefer to seek out other opinions that might support your position and then try and use those to discredit the actual experts that don't agree with your claims. This is not a pathway to truth it is the way that biased people approach an issue to try and justify their beliefs.
*mod censored* :science:
Derek is not an isolated expert voice and I am not an isolated expert recruitment voice.
I suspect one of the games (SC or SQ42) to release in 3 or 4 years from now, and the other to come out sometime after that.
Based on what?
I already answered this early in this thread, around page 70.
And I disagree about Chris Roberts lying about when things would be released, otherwise you would have to say every single developer is a liar when ever they have something that is late, I dont't call them liars unless there is actual proof that when they gave the release date they knew it was not possible. Chris Roberts has always been bad at giving good release dates, it is one of his flaws among his perfectionism and his management style, and this is all stuff I knew before I put my $60 into this game.
This illustrates your naivety and is evidence of your age and lack of experience in the world of work.
Whilst technically you are correct that people lie all the time, the REALITY is that there are accepted norms in professional circles and that CROBERTS has greatly overstated his position such that it is reasonable to call him a LIAR versus some other developer whose schedule slipped (because that would be within expected industry norms or is otherwise reasonably explained)
Another reason why the lay person is idiotic to ignore expert opinion in favour of their own opinion.
Quote
Saying I worship Chris Roberts is a personal insult. /rolleyes
You know nothing about me.
It is not cult thinking, it is not worship, it was fully knowing exactly what my money was going into with all the risks associated with it, also knowing about Chris Roberts and all of his faults.
This claim of yours is simply incorrect unless you can, at the very least, read minds.
If you can read minds, I would be after a Nobel prize and would be kicking myself I didnt take up James Randi on his £1mil challenge.
Brian Chambers on Twitter: "We're getting closer. #StarCitizen #3.0"
Meanwhile... :wtchris:QuoteBrian Chambers on Twitter: "We're getting closer. #StarCitizen #3.0"
https://twitter.com/ChambersArt/status/908598777056985089
I've been hearing this from a couple sources, so I wanted to take a moment to clarify how this process works.
Firstly, there is no "special" or "separate" build with specific features for Evocati. What we push to Evocati will be the most current build of 3.0 from our release branch that we feel is suitable for our immediate testing needs.
What this means is that like every Evocati build before it, it will still contain many, many bugs impacting the overall Star Citizen experience we hope to achieve when Alpha 3.0 eventually launches, but that the most pressing bugs standing in the way of testing specific features we are prioritizing at that moment have been hopefully eliminated. Once this is done, we can push a build to Evocati and direct them to concentrated testing of those specific features within the overall 3.0 branch.
As Erin said in Burndown yesterday, we intend to sweep through game system by game system, starting first with traversing between the moons of Crusader. As milestones are hit, and waves of bugs associated with additional features are smashed, we will push further builds to Evocati, then to PTU, and finally to our live environment, which itself is still a test bed for Star Citizen Alpha.
I wanna get... I wanna go to Evocati... I wanna make sure the first thing we can do is ensure we can traverse the system easily and well, and that's all this set of bugs is about, is we... you know... from getting in, taking off, ATC working, QT-ing working, being able to go to locations, all that kinda stuff, we just get THAT working and so it's not... it's not a nightm... you know I'm not going into maps all the time and trying to work out where I can jump places and so forth... you can do that kind of stuff and we have what I think is a really good start for EVOCATI cos it's a lot of FUN, it's FUN.
You go down to planets you do some EVENTS. And THEN, once we get this set of twenty, you know, SIX bugs left, you know... and don't forget these are the 26 bugs I want fixed to go to EVOCATI with, but I'm SURE we'll fix a bunch of other STUFF, you know, at the same time and stuff like that... and then we basically go and get that in, and then once we get that set of BUGS... you know, those set of, uh, BUGS... then what we're gonna do again is sit... sit down with TARD and then say, 'Right! What's um... what's the next feature we wanna focus on', and then pick another say ten, twenty um... like FEATURES... let's get TRADING maybe working properly and then maybe... ten or fifteen features...
(A dev raises his hand to speak at this point and is ignored)
(https://i.imgur.com/PQ7UWxe.png)
... and we say right, here's the... here's the seventeen BUGS for that, that's the next release for EVOCATI, let's get all this stuff worked on and then we fix all sorts of stuff in the background, and we just basically PICK a FEATURE at a time, NAIL IT DOWN and just keep on going that way and that's how we're gonna close this out.
Leaders and project managers need to shield their employees from the customers/other leaders and act as the go between. -TouchdownTim55 (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/70c7m9/putting_the_individual_devs_on_blast_like_that/)
Erin is seeing his life of luxury and his yearly 300K salary + benefits going up in smoke in the short run, with the possibility to have to pay back everything gained in the last years. So he is as desperate to get a working 3.0 build out of the door as Chris is. What an ass he is in that clip. It's almost as if it's filmed with a hidden camera to expose some major bad thing. He fits right in in that scenario.
And they're not even hiding it anymore; straight from the diffchecker (https://www.diffchecker.com/ZSKS4fRN)
This week we’ve got good news on the bug fixing front as we’ve taken a giant leap toward our objective of getting Star Citizen Alpha 3.0 into the hands of the Evocati. Last week’s report indicated a total of 76 must-fix issues and this week we are down to 26. While a number of these bugs were simply resolved due to the team’s usual endeavors, our directors reviews have been keenly focused on core player loops which has led to a redefinition of must-fix. In short, we’ve decided that we need to get this into Evocati hands sooner rather than later. We are simply going to accept that there will still be additional issues to resolve, but we want your feedback now, so we have readjusted our numbers to reflect bugs that are blocking the core experience (gameplay loops, missions, commodities and shopping, to name a few). We want you traversing the universe, landing on planets and generally testing 3.0 while we continue to polish and bug fix more features that can then be passed along for testing. We can then prioritize any new issues that come up, but it will accelerate the process so we can advance 3.0 much quicker to the PU and ultimately to our entire player base. We’ll be back next week with another update on how we’re doing.
There's no chance of a general release before Citizencon now I don't think. Evocati might get their hands on it though.
A lot of the community have requested them to just release whst they have, (totally ignoring the meaning of the word 'blocker'), and it seems they have listened. They must be getting a little desperate to just get it out of the door though. It is a little embarrassing.
26 little bugs in the code, 26 little bugs. Knock one off the load, compile the code, find 64 little bugs in the code.
None of this matters because the project is FUBAR anyway.
The early access comment doesn't mean much at all imho, it's just clarifying that whatever they release will be added to, it's just MVP by another name.
Get a game made, get it out and iterate.QuoteNone of this matters because the project is FUBAR anyway.
Not sure that's true for two reasons. One, it's perfectly recognisable as a video game in development and two, I don't believe it's fucked up far enough to cause catastrophic collapse.
The early access comment doesn't mean much at all imho, it's just clarifying that whatever they release will be added to, it's just MVP by another name.
Get a game made, get it out and iterate.QuoteNone of this matters because the project is FUBAR anyway.
Not sure that's true for two reasons. One, it's perfectly recognisable as a video game in development and two, I don't believe it's fucked up far enough to cause catastrophic collapse.
This is why you sound like an idiot.
An industry vet tells you something and you think your opinion matters.
It doesn't because you are not an expert and he is...
The sensible thing is to shut up and listen.
You might learn something and for free !
Blindly believing someone who has been proven to be wrong over and over again when commenting about SC just because they've produced a video game in the past, now that right there is idiocy.
The early access comment doesn't mean much at all imho, it's just clarifying that whatever they release will be added to, it's just MVP by another name.
Get a game made, get it out and iterate.QuoteNone of this matters because the project is FUBAR anyway.
Not sure that's true for two reasons. One, it's perfectly recognisable as a video game in development and two, I don't believe it's fucked up far enough to cause catastrophic collapse.
This is why you sound like an idiot.
An industry vet tells you something and you think your opinion matters.
It doesn't because you are not an expert and he is...
The sensible thing is to shut up and listen.
You might learn something and for free !
This is an industry vet who is on record raging about burning it to the ground, calling the CEO all manner of insulting names, hating on developers, fans and executives almost every day on multiple web sites for years, self admitted to being at war and you think I should take his word for it because he's worked in the industry? This makes you think I'm the one looking stupid?
Blindly believing someone who has been proven to be wrong over and over again when commenting about SC just because they've produced a video game in the past, now that right there is idiocy.
I question whatever I don't agree with no matter where it comes from because I'm not a group think type and like to make my mind up for myself.
BAM Takedown! :woop:
I question whatever I don't agree with...
I question whatever I don't agree with...
And that's exactly where you have failed...
“An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it. Truth stands, even if there be no public support. It is self sustained.” -Mahatma Gandhi
I disagree. With you, not Ghandi. Questioning everything is part of my personality, sorry.
I disagree. With you, not Ghandi. Questioning everything is part of my personality, sorry.
Is coming to the wrong conclusions part of your personality as well?
Well nobody's perfect!
Well nobody's perfect!
Yes, and some people will learn this hard way...
Like in CR and SC case:
His Wing Commander games were great...
but then downfall started...
Freelancer...
Hollywood...
and finally SC...
Questioning everything is part of my personality, sorry.
Freelancer still being played to this day... hardly a failure. Imagine what he might have achieved if he'd been given more time and money...
Hollywood wasn't a total failure. Lucky number slevin and Lord of War were reasonably well received.
Freelancer still being played to this day... hardly a failure. Imagine what he might have achieved if he'd been given more time and money...
Hollywood wasn't a total failure. Lucky number slevin and Lord of War were reasonably well received.
Questioning everything is part of my personality, sorry.
Okay. So you question everything Chris says and everything CIG does. And you question everything Derek writes and you question everything we debate here on this forum. You put all that together to come to a conclusion for yourself. And then that conclusion is to give Chris the benefit of the doubt and assume that Derek most likey is wrong? :vince:
The only thing you should question, are your own conclusions. Try a week to live to the exact opposite view of you own conclusions. It'll probably open your eyes...
They've obviously had their problems but it looks like they're beating them to me.
You mean after he'd missed deadline after deadline and gone over budget to the point where MS had to come in, buy the company, and kick him out?
Freelancer still being played to this day... hardly a failure. Imagine what he might have achieved if he'd been given more time and money...
Derek is just far too rabid a commentator to take seriously. It's impossible that every little thing they do or announce is fatally flawed in some way, yet Derek screams ELE or collapse or lying bastards every single time? It's just not realistic. He's been proven wrong on many occasions and been proven to belyingusing hyperbole on many others, it's ruined his credibility.
I feel my eyes are open, I see quite well through them too.
You mean after he'd missed deadline after deadline and gone over budget to the point where MS had to come in, buy the company, and kick him out?
Freelancer still being played to this day... hardly a failure. Imagine what he might have achieved if he'd been given more time and money...
Dude, seriously. Stop. Just stop. I liked Freelancer too, but I could tell it had been kludged together for release (particularly with the missions and single-player campaign). This is blatant fanboyism, not critical analysis, and all you're doing is confirming people's opinion of you as a shill.
They've obviously had their problems but it looks like they're beating them to me.
Care to suggest some examples ? (before we do)
Orders of magnitude more stable.It crashed during the live GamesCom demo, and multiple times in the limited floor demo, so no, it's not stable. Not to mention Ramps of course.
Landing on planetary bodies. Looking much better in videos than the first attempts last year.Yes, well that's just the thing, in videos. This is probably the one thing they will eventually get working, but you'll need a huge graphics card to make it run smoothly and there won't be anything to do. When CIG started on this quest for planets it was new and exciting, but we've had moons in Elite Dangerous and planets in NMS since then, so it's really nothing special now.
Flight model tweeks have made it more fun to fly.That's purely subjective. Just looking at the in-atmosphere flying during the GamesCom demo the flight model doesn't look at all realistic, ships seem to be able to pivot around in mid air, almost as though they were using the space flight model rather than one suitable for an atmosphere.
Animations have improved a lot from first FPS attempts.Really? The animations in the GamesCom live demo were janky as hell. An NPC got off a stool by walking through it, they climbed stairs by treating it as a ramp. The model twitched when changing physics grids etc.
It's almost like they've released an alpha product and are steadily improving most of it.:vince: Really? where is it?
The biggy is, of course, the networking. Fuck knows what will happen there. They keep saying they can solve the problem of MMO at high fidelity in a similar way to how Dual Universe is doing it. Appears plausible to me.I agree !
QuoteOrders of magnitude more stable.It crashed during the live GamesCom demo, and multiple times in the limited floor demo, so no, it's not stable. Not to mention Ramps of course.QuoteLanding on planetary bodies. Looking much better in videos than the first attempts last year.Yes, well that's just the thing, in videos. This is probably the one thing they will eventually get working, but you'll need a huge graphics card to make it run smoothly and there won't be anything to do. When CIG started on this quest for planets it was new and exciting, but we've had moons in Elite Dangerous and planets in NMS since then, so it's really nothing special now.QuoteFlight model tweeks have made it more fun to fly.That's purely subjective. Just looking at the in-atmosphere flying during the GamesCom demo the flight model doesn't look at all realistic, ships seem to be able to pivot around in mid air, almost as though they were using the space flight model rather than one suitable for an atmosphere.QuoteAnimations have improved a lot from first FPS attempts.Really? The animations in the GamesCom live demo were janky as hell. An NPC got off a stool by walking through it, they climbed stairs by treating it as a ramp. The model twitched when changing physics grids etc.QuoteIt's almost like they've released an alpha product and are steadily improving most of it.:vince: Really? where is it?QuoteThe biggy is, of course, the networking. Fuck knows what will happen there. They keep saying they can solve the problem of MMO at high fidelity in a similar way to how Dual Universe is doing it. Appears plausible to me.I agree !
It didn't crash during Gamescom. That was 3.0 being played.Hang on, yes it did. Did you not watch Chris Robert's presentation - it was hilarious.
Not sure why you'll need a huge graphics card to load a procedural planetary body. It's not rendering anything beyond your vision. We'll find out soon enough.All the show floor computers had GTX 1080s if memory serves, god knows how much RAM. But yes, we should find out soon.
Where is the alpha? Are you being silly? AC, PU, Star Marine etc. Alpha.OK, using the definitions for generic software development then there's an argument that we're in alpha. But games development is sort of it's own thing and looking at Wikipedia:
First playable
The first playable is the game version containing representative gameplay and assets,[149] this is the first version with functional major gameplay elements.[150] It is often based on the prototype created in pre-production.[151] Alpha and first playable are sometimes used to refer to a single milestone, however large projects require first playable before feature complete alpha.[150] First playable occurs 12 to 18 months before code release. It is sometimes referred to as the "Pre-Alpha" stage.[153]
Alpha
Alpha is the stage when key gameplay functionality is implemented, and assets are partially finished.[153] A game in alpha is feature complete, that is, game is playable and contains all the major features.[154] These features may be further revised based on testing and feedback.[153] Additional small, new features may be added, similarly planned, but unimplemented features may be dropped.[154] Programmers focus mainly on finishing the codebase, rather than implementing additions.[152] Alpha occurs eight to ten months before code release,[153] but this can vary significantly based on the scope of content and assets any given game has.
I disagree. With you, not Ghandi. Questioning everything is part of my personality, sorry.
Questioning everything is part of my personality, sorry.
Okay. So you question everything Chris says and everything CIG does. And you question everything Derek writes and you question everything we debate here on this forum. You put all that together to come to a conclusion for yourself. And then that conclusion is to give Chris the benefit of the doubt and assume that Derek most likey is wrong? :vince:
The only thing you should question, are your own conclusions. Try a week to live to the exact opposite view of your own conclusions. It'll probably open your eyes...
That Failure2Report video seems to be getting plenty of attention:
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/711pmt/failuretoreport_talks_feature_creep_cig_behaviour/
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen_refunds/comments/710sr4/failure2report_7k_backer_divests_from_sc_due_to/
All the show floor computers had GTX 1080s if memory serves, god knows how much RAM. But yes, we should find out soon.
OK, using the definitions for generic software development then there's an argument that we're in alpha. But games development is sort of it's own thing and looking at Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_development#AlphaQuoteFirst playable
The first playable is the game version containing representative gameplay and assets,[149] this is the first version with functional major gameplay elements.[150] It is often based on the prototype created in pre-production.[151] Alpha and first playable are sometimes used to refer to a single milestone, however large projects require first playable before feature complete alpha.[150] First playable occurs 12 to 18 months before code release. It is sometimes referred to as the "Pre-Alpha" stage.[153]
Alpha
Alpha is the stage when key gameplay functionality is implemented, and assets are partially finished.[153] A game in alpha is feature complete, that is, game is playable and contains all the major features.[154] These features may be further revised based on testing and feedback.[153] Additional small, new features may be added, similarly planned, but unimplemented features may be dropped.[154] Programmers focus mainly on finishing the codebase, rather than implementing additions.[152] Alpha occurs eight to ten months before code release,[153] but this can vary significantly based on the scope of content and assets any given game has.
I'd argue that we're in pre-Alpha stage (after $160 million and 5 years). But, let's see what others think.
I posted the specs earlier on one of the boards here. It was the latest Intel i7 on 32 GB with 2 (!) GTX 1080 Titans. Huge specs.
I posted the specs earlier on one of the boards here. It was the latest Intel i7 on 32 GB with 2 (!) GTX 1080 Titans. Huge specs.
And yet, the capital ships' battle was a slideshow. I got a headache trying to watch that. That's probably due to the piss-poor networking but I suspect the high overall poly count had something to do with the poor performance as well. I wonder if the FrankenEngine does a good job at back-face culling the ships' interiors as that's easily another bazillion polys that can be optimized away during combat.
So, just to stick it to Chris, I just purchased the whole 6 games bundle for 55 bucks from that oldest living #indiedev fossil to see if it will run on my Intel Core i7 5930K @ 3,5 GHz on 32 GB with a MSI Nvidia GeForce GTX 980 4GD5T OC :D
Does anyone know what the purported "gamechanger" they keep referring to is going to be at the coming CitizenCon presentation?
Does anyone know what the purported "gamechanger" they keep referring to is going to be at the coming CitizenCon presentation? I'm trying to find information online but not having much luck.
I read something similar on Reddit. Something about FOIP not being the gamechanger but yet to come at CC as confirmed by Lando. My best guess is that that is just pure speculation and hype creation because FOIP just can't be the gamechanger. Then again, that whole "gamechanger" thing was more fluff by Chris to rekindle the hypetrain and that whole FOIP blew up right in his face (pun intended)...
Base builder game jpeg inc...
Croberts is SOOOOO kin creative ...
Base builder game jpeg inc...
Croberts is SOOOOO kin creative ...
When it comes to base building, I like the fidelity of this one better. AND it was more fun to play. AND it beat Star Citizen to Early Access! :woof:
Humm. What is that game? Too lazy to browse :p
ASTRONEER (http://store.steampowered.com/app/361420/ASTRONEER/)
Who wants a game changer six years into development?
The comments and reviews about Astroneer are very funny to read if you are following the Scam Shitizen drama. They're complaining about lack of content after 10 months in development :DI have yet to see an early access product, which became a really good game afterwards. It's interesting when instead of spending money on hyped up incomplete games you just take a note and see them fail one after another much later (usually when the EA money dries up).
Benjamin Anders (System Designer):
...and you will talk only specifically to that AI and that will give the response.
So there is an air traffic controller entity which is a combined version of the SEATS that we already have and the useable system other designers are working on, and the AI will basically sit down and then have SENSORS or FEELERS you could say, um... to... check how many ships are in the radius, what ships request LANDING, what pads are free, what are occupied, what are the DIFFERENT stations of occupation of these pads and then will according to that, will address landing pads to players.
There's a couple of (inaudible) ones for special stations like LEVSKI or GRIM HEX or PORT OLISAR and there's also like a GENERIC one, a GENERIC computer system which also picks up if there's for whatever reason, no flight operator available. Because our flight operators are actually like physically placed in the station, so... you could basically stand in the station, see him talking to someone and whoever is on the ship will see the same thing. So it's a... uh... ONE TO ONE TRANSITION.
Let's say that station gets attacked or that guy is out of an emergency or whatever, he's not there, we have a BACKUP system that picks up with just a generic computer voice and that will handle the flight operation then.
So every flight controller is its own AI. When you hailing a tower to request landing or takeoff, you're gonna be in contact with an actual SUBSUMPTION DRIVEN AI which, um, has... depending on the station a unique voiceline or a generic one...
STAR CITIZEN MAJOR MILESTONE BUILDS
3.0 (w/ planet/moon access etc), ??/??/??
2.6.3, 04/27/2017
2.6.2, 03/31/2017
2.6.0 (w/ Star Marine fps module), 12/23/2016
2.4.0 (/w/ ArcCorp shopping), 06/08/2016
2.0 (w/ Persistent Universe, Multi-Crew Ships), 12/11/2015
1.2 (w/ ArcCorp social module), 08/28/2015
0.8 (w/ Arena Commander dogfighting module), 06/04/2014
0.x (w/ Hangar module), 08/29/2013
Best Damn Schadenfreude Simulator Ever.
Actually, it's not simulated.
As a game dev, I admit to some amount of jealousy, initially, about a guy getting to build his dream game, with oodles of cash, no publisher to answer to, and all the time anyone would ever need to build a space sim. A space sim! No offense to you Derek, but space sims are much easier to build than most other types - compare the math behind flying in space to the math behind getting a reasonable water interaction model going for a boat game and you wonder how they've managed to fail at even getting a working flight model. How are they failing to get netcode working when the physics interactions are so much simpler to model than something involving landscape? Well, of course, they decided to do all that planetary stuff, but c'mon.
So, while I'm in the sweat mines working on my own project, dealing with our publishers, I gotta say it's fun coming over here and seeing how badly CR has cocked things up. My only lament is that no actual, good designer/project manager will get the chance to do this.
"so players can experience the excitement of piloting their ship from space into atmosphere and across one of Crusader’s moons"
1) God I hope that's just the idiot who wrote that, not knowing how to construct a sentence for clarity reasons. Because if they are really releasing 3.0 (or a subset thereof) with only one moon ---> fucking :lol: because the fallout would be amazing. :magical:
wacky moon language and emotional cues are carried through it so badly
I wasn't trying to deflect it to be about LOD, rather I was explaining why I feel you are so emotionally invested into Star Citizen, to the point of it effecting the rest of your life in a bad way.
There is more I can say about LOD and the evidence about the development has come to a crawl, but like I said that wasn't my point anyways.
What we saw at GDC17 is what is going to be 3.0; An asteroid base and one moon. Both with copy and paste terrain and no other content at all.
As a game dev, I admit to some amount of jealousy, initially, about a guy getting to build his dream game, with oodles of cash, no publisher to answer to, and all the time anyone would ever need to build a space sim.I learned a lot from this. About game development. :)
[...]
So, while I'm in the sweat mines working on my own project, dealing with our publishers, I gotta say it's fun coming over here and seeing how badly CR has cocked things up. My only lament is that no actual, good designer/project manager will get the chance to do this.
MTBFritz over at FDev has one of his masterpiece posts (https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/355735-Star-Citizen-Thread-v6?p=5934921&viewfull=1#post5934921) up. This time he's taking on this ATV bullshit.
He totally nailed it.
And then what? Waiting for the next patch?Yes. But not without weeks and months of intense theorycrafting over there about all the exciting features and bug fixes 3.0.1 will bring, as well as what the new concept ships can do and what to melt for what. Don't worry, they'll be fine and continue to get their money's worth out of following the game development experience. As long as they have the meta-game in the forums, they'll be fine.
Oh, I want this to be over so badly. I can't wait for 3.0 and I can't wait for Shitizen Con. I want to see it crash and burn. The suspense is killing me. It's becoming like the cliffhanger that ends the season and you just want to see where it's going. I want news, I want gossip, and want it all so I can have the ultimate laugh when CIG collapses. I want to rub it in to those guys. I want to set a remind me for myself there. I want to hear all their arguments after CIG has crashed. I want to look for the first one who dares to say Derek was right. And now I lost XYZ of money. I want, I want, I want :supaburn:
But most of all, I want to have the discussions overthere knowing that Derek has been proven right :toot:
So, there will be a moon. A barren rock with nothing to do but fly over it or drive on it with a buggy. That'll be fun for 5 minutes or so. And then what? Waiting for the next patch?
I guess we got it all wrong...
+ Levski isnt a moon, its a landing zone on a large Asteroid! In 3.0 we'll see Yela, Cellin, Daymar and Delamar (the home of Levski)! However the Location of Delamar will change in future patches cause originally the Asteroidfield it's in right now isn't located in the Stanton system!
That's so much more to explore. I'm guessing twenty minutes before waiting on the next patch.
That's so much more to explore. I'm guessing twenty minutes before waiting on the next patch.
GeneralZex 2 points 7 hours ago
They want Evocati testers being put to work. Having players mess around with the 3.0 Gamescom version found a lot bugs QA missed entirely. Players were playing with features in a way they weren't even thought of being tested in a QA environment.
...
They must have very bad QA...there was very little for players to play with...
The Next Steps
After we played for a while to make a picture for ourselves about the technological background (of the game) at Foundry 42, we naturally wanted to know, when it will be playable live. Chris Roberts told us what the next steps to update the alpha builds for backers will look like.
First there will be an update to version 2.5 soon. This contains a new space station for the existing mini universe(see box on page 14). "The station is more targeted at players, that lets say want to move beyond the law", explains Roberts. The allusion refers to the pirate base named Grim Hex, which was shown recently by Cloud Imperium Games in their Online-Video-Show "Around the Verse" shortly. Grim Hex is the opposite to the already existing station Port Olisar in the playable Stanton System. "With that we want to enable the gameplay between two factions, to see, what the players will make of it", so Roberts.
After that follows 2.6, in which the developers want to introduce the First-Person-Shooter-Module Star Marine. Star Marine will be played outside of the persistant universe, like the already existing module Arena Commander, in which one can test his piloting skills. It is specially designed for multiplayer shooter sessions, with separate levels. "We have invested very much time into the FPS-mechanics, which will be very noticeable if compared to the actual rudimentary systems in 2.4", says Roberts. The developer show us a corresponding gameplay segment, which leaves an excellent impression: Animation, controls and weapon feeling were thoroughly overhauled, so that for a shooter player it really feels good. The result: Seamless movements and clean gunplay – keep it up!
With version 2.7 CIG wants to implement procedural planet technology into the live universe. In the first step it will for the first time become possible to travel the complete Stanton System. At the moment version 2.4 contains only parts of it, in whcih which one can't land on planets or space ports. This will change fundamentally. "Version 2.7 is the next big step for us, which will contain much more playable content for our backers", remarks Roberts. Planets and Moons in the Stanton System will be directly approachable and the players can land on them, like on the afore mentioned Outlaw-Base Grim Hex. With following patches more landing zones will find their way into the Stanton System, like for example Hurston and Microtech, two important corporation locations in the Star Citizen Universe. The proclaimed target of CIG is, to make Stanton playable in its full extent before the end of 2016, with all stations and landing zones, which Roberts estimates to 40 locations. It shall also be possible, to play considerably more missions... end...
STAR CITIZEN ALPHA 3.0 FEATURES
Renamed from Star Citizen Alpha 2.7 & Released Planned Before End of 2016
Expanding the Stanton System
-ArcCorp, Hurston, Microtech, Crusader, Delamar
-New Space Stations, Moons & Asteroid Belts (30-40 locations)
Planets
-Planetary Landing
-Atmospheric Flight
-Free Roaming
-Landing Zones
-Ground Combat
-Ground Vehicles
(Mentions of Procedural Planets 2.0, with Oceans, Water, Plant Life)
Basic Professions
-Piracy
-Bounty Hunting
-Cargo Hauling
-Trading
-Mercenary
Item 2.0
-Inner Thought – “Contextual Action System Replacing Use” (wtf is this shitfuck?)
-Refactored Items
StarNetwork 1.0
-New Network CODE Increasing performance
-More Players
-BETTER
Subsumption 1.0
-NPCs
-Schedules for NPCs
-Diverse NPC Actions
-Day & Night Cycles
-Increased Missions & Complexity of them
-Economy Driven Missions
Mission 1.0
Dynamic Missions that can be template, modular, NPC & Economy Driven
-Jobwell Mission Board
-Other Missions
Ships & Vehicles
-Dragonfly
-Ursa Rover
"You have five or six people and it crashes every five or ten minutes... and if 3.0 crashes is relative or proportional to the amount of people playing there will be a lot more, you'll be having crashes every minute or two, because you are going to fill up these instances pretty quickly... They'll download it, then they'll be getting kicked out to the desktop" - Chris Roberts
BREAKING!! Well, don't bother waiting for 3.0 aka "Baby Jesus Patch" being released to Evocati next week. We're now 2 weeks out. Oh well.
I forgot to mention, you can ignore Chambers. 3.0 build, as of last build, was the same crash fest as LAST week. He doesn't know yet maybe
Too unstable to release, even to Evocati. From 0 (having deferred a bunch of them to a later build) must-fix bugs, back to 5 (that they are disclosing)
Too unstable to release, even to Evocati. From 0 (having deferred a bunch of them to a later build) must-fix bugs, back to 5 (that they are disclosing)
I'm genuinely amazed they didn't squeeze a ship sale in there when the tracker dropped to zero bugs. Chris must be fuming, unless they're planning to have it scrape the bottom for a while, do a big ship sale, then shoot back up.
Wow, no wonder they couldn't release with that stuff. If those are the sort of bugs they're encountering (extremely basic stuff) they are going to get shredded when they get into Evocati. I'm sure at least 100+ gamebreakers will be found.
I would be shocked if this goes to Evocati any time before Christmas. :bahgawd:
All that's happening now is people are realising the "internal build reports" and status updates are completely bogus and meaningless, I've seen this happen on commercial projects before. As a project manager if you don't stand by your gantt charts and build reports people just lose faith in your charts and slowly they become the office joke, then the joke with your client, then you lose the client. CRoberts is running out of tricks and delaying tactics to use, now his gantt charts have been shown as meaningless what else will they throw at us?
What have they done to CryEngine to break it in such a fundamental way?
If I'm not mistaken, CryEngine is also horribly suited for a space sim too. And horribly out-of-date. And, well, just plain horrible.What have they done to CryEngine to break it in such a fundamental way?
IThe problem was/ is that this engine is poorly suited to create the massive MMO style game he wants to build. It required heavy modification. Ill refer back to what I had been told and paraphrase. They start patching here and there, hundreds of changes, then thousands. Eventually you come to a point where the code is like a jenga tower. Change one more thing and it breaks a few others. It appears that to have the game as he wishes he can only have a few players in an instance (correct term?) because the game is so (data, pixel) intensive that as you approach 16 players it will crash.
Roberts wants it so when joe and biff are in a shootout in Space Marine it is happening in real time on the same space station you are flying past, no separation between the various modules and the rest of the persistant universe. Add in all the miscellaneous bullshit nobody cares about like face over IP ( I think he needs a shaving minigame and a dental hygiene simulator, whaddya think?)and you have a nightmare that is nearly impossible to build and very few are actually interested in playing. ITS NOT FUN. he hasn't figured out that his game is BORING.
Time is running out. His suddenly deciding to remove a shitload of bugs from the list to push out this super buggy ultra condensed version of 3.0 is a sign of desperation to keep more players from requesting refunds. Personally I think this will be their coffin nail. If I'm wrong they are still so far from a complete game that there will be many chances to fail or run out of money to continue with their huge staff. They spend more than they take in now.
Anybody have a funding chart for dummies that is updated to show the latest pixel sale?
Look at lines 53-68 in that diff (https://www.diffchecker.com/7nrH3A6u), both weeks, under the subtitle "Crashes".
Those crashing bugs ... from the method names they're all over the place and in reasonably low level stuff that's exercised all the time, e.g.,
- CEntityComponentSystem::UnregisterComponent,
- CSCActorControlStateUsable::QueueIdle,
- CGameRules::PrecacheList,
- PersistenceCache::CCacheMsgHandler::SetChildrenRootParentRecursive.
There's like 30 of these crashes fixed in the last 2 weeks alone!
So
- it's amazing they have this many crashes in foundation level code at this stage, not to mention right when they're supposed to be shipping to Evocati ...
- it's no wonder they can't keep a system running for more than a few minutes ...
- how many are left to fix in their bug queue?
- to those who say that we, out here, don't know game development: Unit tests, anyone? Again, these are low-level methods!
:vince:
I would be shocked if this goes to Evocati any time before Christmas. :bahgawd:
All that's happening now is people are realising the "internal build reports" and status updates are completely bogus and meaningless, I've seen this happen on commercial projects before. As a project manager if you don't stand by your gantt charts and build reports people just lose faith in your charts and slowly they become the office joke, then the joke with your client, then you lose the client. CRoberts is running out of tricks and delaying tactics to use, now his gantt charts have been shown as meaningless what else will they throw at us?
What have they done to CryEngine to break it in such a fundamental way?
If Chris can't release 3.0 at least to the Avocado's before Shitizen Con, most bakers will (finally) accept that they have been had since Gamescom 2016. If he releases the crap that 3.0 is to the Avocado's and that stuff leaks, most bakers will (finally) accept that they have been had since Gamescom 2016.
So basically, Chris is fucked either way. The end is near. As can be deducted too from the huge sales success over the weekend. People are no longer putting their money in Scam Shitizen and that's the beginning of the end...
They should have started with a custom made engine from scratch with a focus on the basic core elements of the game. basically, once Chris decided to go with CryEngine, the game was fucked.
:five: :five: :five:
So @AmznLumberyard just released a major update to LumberYard, proving once again that CryEngine simply isn't suited for all types of games. Good call! Gee, it's almost as if I wrote a whole blog in 2015 about that.
Except in the case of Amazon, they actually took one look and decided, "yeah, we're gonna have to rip it all out to make a decent general purpose engine". Then went ahead and did just that.
@AmznLumberyard Basically created a new custom engine using baseline CryEngine. No, they couldn't have started from scratch with own engine as that would be admitting that someone up the food chain caused AMZ to lose a fortune by licensing CE in the first place.
They should have started with a custom made engine from scratch with a focus on the basic core elements of the game. basically, once Chris decided to go with CryEngine, the game was fucked.
Yup. Basically the gist of The July Blog :eng101:
As a layman, I´ve always wondered the following: Is there a reason why CIG couldn´t use simpler (perhaps even in a stylized art style, like Blizzard always uses) models in order to make the game run smoother? From my uninformed outsider´s perspective I can´t help but imagine that most CE limitations would be relatively minor if they could get over how hard it is for the engine to render all the things they need it to.
They should have started with a custom made engine from scratch with a focus on the basic core elements of the game. basically, once Chris decided to go with CryEngine, the game was fucked.
Yup. Basically the gist of The July Blog :eng101:
As a layman, I´ve always wondered the following: Is there a reason why CIG couldn´t use simpler (perhaps even in a stylized art style, like Blizzard always uses) models in order to make the game run smoother? From my uninformed outsider´s perspective I can´t help but imagine that most CE limitations would be relatively minor if they could get over how hard it is for the engine to render all the things they need it to.
As a layman, I´ve always wondered the following: Is there a reason why CIG couldn´t use simpler (perhaps even in a stylized art style, like Blizzard always uses) models in order to make the game run smoother? From my uninformed outsider´s perspective I can´t help but imagine that most CE limitations would be relatively minor if they could get over how hard it is for the engine to render all the things they need it to.
Well no, because and art style is a matter of choice and depending on the game. It's what they wanted to go with, and they stuck with it.
I get the same queries all the time with Line Of Defense. I chose the colorful art style, compared to my previous games, because it suited the type and style of game I was making.
As a layman, I´ve always wondered the following: Is there a reason why CIG couldn´t use simpler (perhaps even in a stylized art style, like Blizzard always uses) models in order to make the game run smoother? From my uninformed outsider´s perspective I can´t help but imagine that most CE limitations would be relatively minor if they could get over how hard it is for the engine to render all the things they need it to.
Well no, because and art style is a matter of choice and depending on the game. It's what they wanted to go with, and they stuck with it.
This I get. But why did they have to go overboard with "fidelity" in the pre-alpha phase? Wouldn't it have been better to use simpler models for flying around during the development phase and focus on, you know, the gameplay and such things instead?
As a layman, I´ve always wondered the following: Is there a reason why CIG couldn´t use simpler (perhaps even in a stylized art style, like Blizzard always uses) models in order to make the game run smoother? From my uninformed outsider´s perspective I can´t help but imagine that most CE limitations would be relatively minor if they could get over how hard it is for the engine to render all the things they need it to.
I have played with Lumberyard a little (very little) when it first came out (effectively still Cryengine) and it became apparent that Cryengine is really good at making very pretty first person single player shooters, which is all that Crytek needed it to do.Its engine was first and foremost designed to render a tropical island with an ocean, lakes and lots of vegetation.
He is the LAST person to be a project manager. He made all the wrong decisions and castrated all the experts in his organization who could have steered him straight. I believe that this is a primary reason why key people have left him. The loss of these people has hurt the organization.
The new laucher is here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Cy9Dq6twzU)
"Erin, Performance is in the toilet on the latest build." - CIG Dev, AtV Oct 5, 2017
"Building games like this, you have to balance visual fidelity with gameplay and scope. You absolutely cannot have it all, and even if you do have it all, something will suffer. Either visual fidelity, or performance." - Derek Smart, July 6, 2015 (http://www.dereksmart.com/2015/07/interstellar-citizens/)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLdSbUIWsAYWFip.jpg)
Look at lines 53-68 in that diff (https://www.diffchecker.com/7nrH3A6u), both weeks, under the subtitle "Crashes".
Those crashing bugs ... from the method names they're all over the place and in reasonably low level stuff that's exercised all the time, e.g.,
- CEntityComponentSystem::UnregisterComponent,
- CSCActorControlStateUsable::QueueIdle,
- CGameRules::PrecacheList,
- PersistenceCache::CCacheMsgHandler::SetChildrenRootParentRecursive.
There's like 30 of these crashes fixed in the last 2 weeks alone!
So
- it's amazing they have this many crashes in foundation level code at this stage, not to mention right when they're supposed to be shipping to Evocati ...
- it's no wonder they can't keep a system running for more than a few minutes ...
- how many are left to fix in their bug queue?
- to those who say that we, out here, don't know game development: Unit tests, anyone? Again, these are low-level methods!
If you just save/load in 64-bits, you're gonna cause small rounding errors that will screw-up the real-time physics engine.
$160MSometimes a video says more than a thousand Reddit threads.
$160M
LMAO - but the SCultists will still manage to put a positive spin on it. Cause that is what they do best.
You guys are all idiots, it's a pre-alpha and bugs are normal. Derek is completely wrong, I don't see any evidence that CIG are in any trouble whatsoever they are clearly keeping all the promises they made over the 3.0 Jesus patch release.
Derek is just plain wrong if he thinks that 6 years and $160 million is enough to make the most highly fidelicious real life simulator known to mankind - they need lots more time and money.
Derek Smart is wrong. I bet Derek Smart wishes he could create a game like this. Don't believe anything Derek says. Derek is in a fantasy world. Derek is going to eat his words when it becomes the BDSSE. Derek is so wrong about everything.
And, by the way, I only have a passing interest in Star Citizen. I hardly ever look at any forums about the game. I think I have a fairly realistic and balanced opinion about the game, unlike Derek Smart, who is always wrong.
I think that would be in the ball park for his response.
"We're expecting many new players so we wanted to make sure the [3.0] user experience is *really good*. So we've decided to spend more time optimizing and polishing then we have for recent releases"
Derek, do you see them releasing a further revision of 3.0, like, 3.0.0c just to keep their promise of 3.0 being that really good one?
Maybe 4.0 isn't the Jesus Patch, but just 3.0.0.1.
LMAO - but the SCultists will still manage to put a positive spin on it. Cause that is what they do best.
3.0 Evocati (Oct):
"Star Citizen ..." This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by MIchael Emmons.
Yeah, I just updated the link with a Goon copy of it.
This is supposedly a 3.0 captureWhy is there out-of-focus texture floating at the bottom of the screen?
Why is there out-of-focus texture floating at the bottom of the screen?
I think that's the helmet. It's their for immersion.What does a 1842 diving helmet inside a 2942 space game?
Together with the need to load all your all cargo by hand (when it's implemented).Great!
And if you hosted it on your own forum? Would they threaten you with legal action?
Oh, they're attacking you for promising them a video of you actually playing 3.0. Is that coming?
Why is there out-of-focus texture floating at the bottom of the screen?
It's the helmet (with a DOF pass). Seriously, they thought this was a good idea. Because immersion.Yes, I always wanted to view my game world through a small window (which is my monitor) and then have that window even more reduced by a floating texture.
But once you do, you'll get this beautiful vista:
(https://i.redd.it/2vr15xv68crz.png)
Now doesn't look Delamar lovely this time of year?
So, in 3.0 it's even worse? :vince:
So we’re constantly working on that. We’re working on optimizing code but we’re actually in the middle of a massive backend rewrite – completely changing the way the serialization works to a much more efficient, logical way. Which is the item port- the item 2.0 system we’ve talked about, which we’ve recently got going. It is a fundamental part of that, because we’re restructuring some of the way that entities are set up – so we’re changing it completely from the way it was done in the old CryEngine to be a very component-based setup, much more logical, and we’re only really serializing data that we need to serialize rather than big globs of data and it’s not nearly as, I guess, fixed as the old system was. Because the old system was really built for small, 16 player or 8 player, multiplayer games – deathmatch, FPS shooter-style whereas we’ve got something that we need to be up for long times, hours or days of time have the server up and have hundreds of people on it.
So our ability to scale has been much bigger, it’s something we’ve been working on for quite a long time, and we’re still working on it, we’re getting close to having some fruits of it being born in the near future. So this is very much analogous to us using, when we did the zone system and moving to 64-bit math instead of 32-bit math. All those things sort of paid off – what allowed us to be able to do Crusader and the local physical grids and all the cool stuff that you’ve seen from 2.0 onwards and a lot of this other backend stuff we’re working on is going to make the experience much better, much smoother for you and have a higher framerate on the server – one of the reasons why people see desync issues now, and maybe some precision issues is the actual server when it’s under load is running at actually quite a low framerate, even compared to clients.
You could be on a client running at 40 or 50 frames, yet the server is only running at 10 or 15 frames. Now the server running at 10 or 15 frames is simulating physics only at 10 or 15 frames, which means there are big steps between each frame, whereas on your local machine, you’ve got much smaller steps, so what can happen is, on the server, you could be here – which is something that happened in the EVA situation – and the next frame of what the server thinks you’re doing is, like you’re player is half-way in the wall of the ship – he’s moving outside. But on your local client, you haven’t – because you have all the fidelity whereas on the server, it goes, “oh look, he’s half way in the world, so I’ll give him a big impulse to try get him out” whereas the server isn’t in the same position which basically catapults your EVA person – could potentially kill him from the damage and that was one of the things that was creating, say, the deaths that you would see in an EVA-transition going in and out.
And partly that was because the server on the physics step was running at a much slower framerate than the client so we’re working on things to make all that better, it’s a work-in-progress, it will take a little while to get goingbut once it does, it will be better and there will be a lot more people in the instances and we’ll be moving smoothly. So these are all things that the network team is working on – I wish we had more members of the network team, we have essentially about 4 engineers that work on the game server network side and then we have another 3 that working in the backend services side. But if any of you out there are network engineers and wanna work on a really ambitious game, let us know, because we’ve had open positions for this for quite a while.
We’re always looking for good people because the things that we need is networkers, there’s a big need for us on the engineering side, AI is a big need and physics – if there’s any physics geniuses out there but if you talk to anyone in the game business, those are all the areas that are it’s genuinely hard to find people. We’re moving along and it’s going to be pretty cool when it’s all said and done, cause it’s basically building a system, I’ve talked about it before, that the next generation of how you build these online cloud-driven systems, so we can distribute it across many servers and process more than you would in traditional single-server setups.
So anyway, probably a long answer for whether or not there will be spaces for more additional pilot players, but there you go.“
We are in unknown territory... So you don't know what the hell you are doing. Yeah, that fits. No frigging way they will get this crap to work. Project is nearing its death throes.
We are in unknown territory... So you don't know what the hell you are doing. Yeah, that fits. No frigging way they will get this crap to work. Project is nearing its death throes.
They moved Miles from oct 9th to Oct 30th? Hey guys I don't think you understand how these 'sprints' work.
Today's Evocati leaks:
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/76lqca/30_spoilers_from_my_evocati_friend/
It's curious to me why CIG didn't just release to Evocati the 3.0 build that PC Gamer totally played this Summer (http://www.pcgamer.com/first-man-on-the-moon-hands-on-with-star-citizen-alpha-30/)
Q: How's the moons?
A: Tricky to get to atm. When first QTing to a moon, the ship stops about 500km away, so you have to go back to the star map app and select 1 of 6 bouys or "OMs" to get closer to them. Then you have to max out your ship's speed with AB to travel about 100km to reach an outpost or station. For example, from Port Olisar to Levski, you select Delamar as your destination on the star map app, then after arriving you select OM3 to get close to Levski, then after that you point your ship towards where Levski should be and you wait about 5 minutes in max speed to get to the vicinity of Levski where you can ping the ATC guy to give you a hangar to land on. The moons themselves only have 5-7 outposts marked on the star map, but there are roads, derelicts and un-marked buildings that you can explore just by flying around. Other than that, the moons are very sparse between marked outposts and bikes are too buggy to effectively roam around moons.
They moved Miles from oct 9th to Oct 30th? Hey guys I don't think you understand how these 'sprints' work.
I think they're still trying to convince him that he can be a mission giver fulltime, without his hobbo night job. :laugh:
After the previous disappointing sale, this one will most likely attract even less buyers. The hype is over Chris, the thrill is gone. Deliver, or go broke.
A quick scan shows a lot of No's on the would you buy it question. This is still an open comment too: The fact that people are discussing such obscenely high amounts for in-game ships like it was a perfectly reasonable thing shows just how completely unreasonable many in this community have become.
After the previous disappointing sale, this one will most likely attract even less buyers. The hype is over Chris, the thrill is gone. Deliver, or go broke.
Ya. Maybe its an epic class ship given FREE to all backers as of the 5th Anniversary ???
Now that would be a game changer.
lol !!!
I hope you have a prescription for what you're taking.
I think the game changer is a farming ship where you get a Harvest moon like mode, manually collecting tomatoes, onions etc. from your fields that have to be manually loaded onto ships. But wait, thats not all. You can also fish very special looking fish with your new Spacerod (tm), only available to consierge level backers, for putting in your hangar fish tank. They can obviously breed, and if you are very very lucky you will earn a special emblem that you can decorate your ship with, after paying a fee of 20 usd (only fresh cash, no uec allowed). It will be awesome!
How exactly does that ship "change" the game? or is that a silly thing to ask?Since it will introduce a hundred new rendering and collision bugs, of course it’s going change the game! :D
You forgot to mention that they did a major overhaul on the ship matrix (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/16170-The-Shipyard-Ship-Mass) as well.
But, if you need proof of how stupid backers really are, just look here (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/777p1y/concierge_news_sneak_preview_for_citizencon/). They are all having fantasies about how thatshipJPEG could be the gamechanger by claiming how it might work. They are completely bonkers :vince:
Hey Chris, if you're reading here, I got a tip. Make it a base building ship that turns/expands into a base once it has landed and make that a one time exercise. So if they want to do it again, they have to buy a new basebuilding ship. That'll give your grandchildren's children still a steady income with those 100 star systems.
How exactly does that ship "change" the game? or is that a silly thing to ask?Since it will introduce a hundred new rendering and collision bugs, of course it’s going change the game! :D
Chris is too busy integrating the new Norwegian studios they recently have opened.
Ok. Here is a long post I just posted on one of those Reddit threads (deleted in an hour probably):
I backed before there even was planned a fps aspect in the game, and already at the time this was introduced I was somewhat skeptical.
That said; of course this is a voluntary endeavor, and no one is forcing anyone into something
and in my case I just sold off everything except from a core package of around 70 dollars (which includes SQ42). I think I will keep this one, but no way if I am putting more money into this as long as 3.0 is the best they can come up with.
That's pretty reasonable. You can buy a bad game for $70 and not get a refund.
That's pretty reasonable. You can buy a bad game for $70 and not get a refund.
... will go on sale ... and be in limited quantities."
(https://i.imgur.com/tPrU1cs.png)
There is only one reason for it being a limited edition and that is that you can only buy it with fresh cash. All the other things like attracting whales with the word "limited" is just a bonus. Target the 2K whale group with a limitation of 2.000 copies and that's another 1.7 million to get them until X-Mas.
There is only one reason for it being a limited edition and that is that you can only buy it with fresh cash. All the other things like attracting whales with the word "limited" is just a bonus. Target the 2K whale group with a limitation of 2.000 copies and that's another 1.7 million to get them until X-Mas.
Bingo...the "limited" moniker is going to trigger those who would usually be on the fence into "gotta buy it now" lemmings.
The morons over on the SC reddit are already theory crafting (dreaming) about how the ship is going to work. Never mind that CIG still can't code a buggy going up a ramp.
Ok. Here is a long post I just posted on one of those Reddit threads (deleted in an hour probably):
Welcome to the forum. Don't worry, as long as you're not here to troll us, you're more than welcome. It's not Reddit. We're not trying to convince anyone of anything, and nobody is going to up or down vote you. Backer, hater, neutral or whatever, we don't care. We're just here for the lols of this on-going train wreck.
Anyway, your analogy is a perfect take on similar ones that some of us have come up with over the years. Which is hilarious because some of those other guys completely entangle it when they talk about 3.0 saying crap like "Yeah, they promised us that 3.0, but what we have now is so much bigger and better" <---- :lol:QuoteI backed before there even was planned a fps aspect in the game, and already at the time this was introduced I was somewhat skeptical.
I believe that fps was always in the original design. They only tacked on the Godawful Star Marine as a test bed; in the same way that Arena Commander was the test bed for the flight combat.QuoteThat said; of course this is a voluntary endeavor, and no one is forcing anyone into something
Except for the part where they've now stopped giving refunds; even though they have failed to deliver on promises.Quoteand in my case I just sold off everything except from a core package of around 70 dollars (which includes SQ42). I think I will keep this one, but no way if I am putting more money into this as long as 3.0 is the best they can come up with.
That's pretty reasonable. You can buy a bad game for $70 and not get a refund.
Late answer here but no, I didnt expect my post HERE to be deleted. I meant on Reddit. Suprisingly it didnt happen. Times are a changing on the SC subreddit :golfclap:
Actually I remember, early after the post-kickstarter stretch goals were introduced, that ship boarding was included in stretch goal five (3.5 mill usd). Just check the strech goals page. Considering the planetary landings were not added until much later, the fps part would be pretty limited. Like a lobby while being docked at a station or a planet. In fact I think I remember discussions about planetside landings being cutscenes which led to menus with trading etc. I think the fps implementation was pretty minuscule if you are correct.
One persistent bug was a memory leak issue where the game (either on the client or server side) soaked up more and more system RAM until it crashed. The team has been squashing this bug whenever they find it, but with performance issues like this, there is rarely a single solution. As more mechanics and code are implemented, any one of them can cause the issue to return.- Gee, it's almost as if that Derek Smart guy called this one the same day 3.0 was released on Oct 5th.
Ok. But planetary fps combat was the 20 mill goal. On "certain lawless planets". Dont fit the bill if planetary landings were already in the pipeline before this. Sure you arent mixing up "being able to land on planets", as in automated landing with interaction menus, with seamless in-cockpit landings?
Yeah, I know. Should be a reference to this in the dictionary under "talking out of your ass", as in Roberts talking from a stage. :aaaaa:
Been reading your blogs since about 1.5 years ago btw. Lots of fun following this farce.
One persistent bug was a memory leak issue where the game (either on the client or server side) soaked up more and more system RAM until it crashed. The team has been squashing this bug whenever they find it, ....
QuoteOne persistent bug was a memory leak issue where the game (either on the client or server side) soaked up more and more system RAM until it crashed. The team has been squashing this bug whenever they find it, ....
I've been in software development for 40+ years. When we find a memory leak - it's a bug, each time. it isn't just one bug that exists in multiple places in the code. Each individual instance is its own bug.
So ... if one of those 24..26 ship stoppers is a "memory leak" that is actually a bunch of different memory leaks in different places in the source code, each one of which has to be individually found and nailed ... how many ship stoppers do they really have?
And what if they're doing this for other ship stoppers. E.g., a bug which is written as "UI for Mobiglass is wrong" might actually be 5..10 different bugs that each have to be found and fixed ...
(Not that I believe in their count anyway; I want to make that clear. It's just that their bullshit excuses are as badly done as their "game". And no, despite 40+ years writing compilers, performance monitors, static code analyzers, desktop applications, and high-availability back-end servers, I am, sadly, not a "game developer". So I guess my opinion is bullshit too, huh?)
(BTW, based on previous bug notes in their "release notes" they're using C++. C++ before the 2011 standard was notorious for the ease with which you could write code that had memory problems: leaks, double deletes, accessing memory after deletion, accessing memory out of bounds, etc. That's what gave rise to Java, C#, etc. However. There's no reason on new code anymore to be using pre C++11. It is still possible in modern C++, with modern best practices, to write memory leaks/access out of bounds/etc. But it should be damn unlikely, if you're doing it right. But I guess we all know they're not doing it right.)
Yeah, but clearly you don't know anything about software development :colbert:
There's no reason on new code anymore to be using pre C++11.
There's no reason on new code anymore to be using pre C++11.
What if your Engine has a codebase that was developed way before 2011? Maybe that forces some problems on them?
Really asking, I have no clue.
What if your Engine has a codebase that was developed way before 2011? Maybe that forces some problems on them?
All they need is one of those code readers that you plug into your car and it will run the problems down for you. It's the perfect took for finding all the lines of faulty code. It tells you what line was at fault and tells you what to replace it with.It's one thing to break the scale, however that thing would melt on its first use when looking at CRobert's code.
Robbers ought to hold one in his hands at the convention and claim that CIG invented it. It will just take another 20 million to put it into production in his new plant in China. All backers who buy a $2500 package will get their very own in the mail............... once the game is completed.
On Tuesday, the writers will release their weekly Lore Post. These in-fiction stories help to give life to the living, breathing universe we aim to create.
On Tuesday, the writers will release their weekly Lore Post. These in-fiction stories help to give life to the living, breathing universe we aim to create.
Maybe focus less on writing stories, and focus more on writing code? I’m sure that would help to give life to the universe much more.
On Tuesday, the writers will release their weekly Lore Post. These in-fiction stories help to give life to the living, breathing universe we aim to create.
Maybe focus less on writing stories, and focus more on writing code? I’m sure that would help to give life to the universe much more.
That's now the main business of Star Citizen, it's a giant JPEG selling PR machine designed to keep the hype train going for as long as possible. They'll never be able to make a game which can meet any of the unrealistic expectations they've encouraged all the backers to have. Never mind the fact that they seem unable to make anything which doesn't crash at the moment.
CitizenCon this year will be the make or break IMO, if they pull off an amazing (fake) tech demo then they can keep the backers fooled for another year. If they try and show off 3.0 as it is now (which I believe is the current plan) then all the zealots are going to realise that their expensive Jpegs are never going to make it into the game and stop buying.
As the schedule already pointed out, they have nothing to show for. The final Shitizen Con is about selling yet another - very pricy - concept ship and announcing the Intel SSD promotion. There is absolutely nothing of interest and attending it will be a drag. As the livestream will show. Let's hope the backers keep their wallets closed so this whole scam will finally come to an end.
if you're ALONE and playing with yourself in an instance.
After $160m and 6yrs, this is the 3.0 Evocati build as of a few days ago. Have fun.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x666ggn
After $160m and 6yrs, this is the 3.0 Evocati build as of a few days ago. Have fun.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x666ggn
It's already been REDACTED. Was this the octopus commando I've seen elsewhere?
You guys need alt accounts so you can repost this stuff as often as possible. Any chance the video file can be safely downloaded? Would that place this website in jeopardy if it was somehow loaded here?
I wonder how long it will be before they release this mess to the public, unless you have heard anything from the con?
My guess is it might be several months before 3.0 is released. Nobody knows just what level of bugginess Robbers will decide is correct.
In the meanwhile we would love to see 3.0 in the meanwhile. It works a lot better when I call it CRAP and can point to the video as evidence.
I can't wait to see this new production schedule for 3.0 which they're revealing in a few days.
My guess is that it's going to be bad news and 3.0 isn't going to be in the hands of the backers for many more months. Good thing all the whales can't get refunds anymore !!
Does anyone think it's likely that they've got some SQ42 to show off in December?
So much for the new FPS
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNWaXnFW0AESc4L.png)
Does anyone think it's likely that they've got some SQ42 to show off in December?
Does anyone think it's likely that they've got some SQ42 to show off in December?If anything, it'll be like CC17; a smoke-and-mirrors fest full of stitched together tech demos and no actual gameplay being shown.
So much for the new FPS (https://twitter.com/D4RK_4NG3L/status/924815031572877312)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNWaXnFW0AESc4L.png)
As I have said before, with all that Art Work I'm sure a card game with a lore master a la Dungeons and Dragons is perfect for this crowd, Geeky Nostalgic, Boring.
My x85 just snuck behind your Bumblebee fighter and let loose a size 3 missile, Quick, roll the dice, BOOM You got wasted. ARRRGH!
WOW what fun!
But I punched out first and attached a mini limpet mine on your ship. Bonus roll! You are dead! HA!
See, perfect for the neck beard crew.
The whole thing is just amazing and in long run this could be required reading in schools long after CRoberts and Sandi are counting days before they get out of jail. Then we have to wonder how bad this will end up hurting Kickstarter.
If people could end up in jail then it sure seems they have one bad attorney!
At times, I think CRoberts is just playing with you, then actually release a game that is playable? Is there any way the insiders you talk to could play a game like this?
Okay never mind CRoberts isn't that smart to pull that off. :)
Is anyone making a documentary about SC btw? From beginning to end. If not that would be a lost opportunity.
I'm gathering you folks don't pay attention to the carefully-curated IMDB entries. I for one, may be tickled when this bad boy (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5561564/) hits the theaters. I wonder how much footage they've already shot?LOL! Who managed to sneak this one in?
Who is Gemini 42 Entertainment? Another shell?
http://www.imdb.com/company/co0467761?ref_=tt_dt_co
The Verse Pack (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/Packages/The-Verse-Pack) - $795 :bahgawd:
LOL! Five years later! Gameplay Engineer, Service & Backend (https://cloudimperiumgames.com/jobs/619-Gameplay-Engineer-Service-Backend) :doh:
We have a new contender!!!
The Verse Pack (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/Packages/The-Verse-Pack) - $795 :bahgawd:
It's $795 USD. Maybe they do the conversion based on your detected location.
LOL! Five years later! Gameplay Engineer, Service & Backend (https://cloudimperiumgames.com/jobs/619-Gameplay-Engineer-Service-Backend) :doh:
They actually have the nerve to list "one or more shipped products, especially PC products" along with the job requirements.
This is even worse :vince:
Patrick working on damage states for Cutlass (https://twitter.com/SandiGardiner/status/926243045028360192)
Back again this week for another email Q&A session between my lucky Evocati friend and I. There's a lot of small back-and-forth questions I had for my friend so I lumped them together in the same topic as best I could.
Q: How's testing been?
A: I've been very busy outside of the testing environment, so testing has been sporadic for me. My job sent me out of state last week, so I missed a couple patches. We're waiting for patch O to arrive soon.
Q: How's shopping and missions going?
A: Missions aren't priority testing, so let's skip that. The shopping experience is still very much a WIP, but it's getting there. Dumper's Depot sells individual ship equipment on display like other shops, but you can't interact with the shop keepers yet. Same deal with Miles and Mr. Shadow. Buying & selling cargo is the same as previous weeks. Yes there are new weapons, suits, and armors to try and purchase. Ships can carry/haul cargo boxes 1/4th the size of a 1 SCU box like in previous builds. All cargo boxes are the same size and weight no matter the contents inside. No the cargo boxes do vary in looks and color depending on the contents. No you can't open the cargo boxes. No they are not throw-able. No you can't sit on them. No you can't kick them. (Are you messing with me?) Yes you can stack and place them anywhere you can reach. Yes cargo is persistent. Cargo boxes do spawn on the specified ship when buying them from trade kiosks. They do despawn when selling them. No you can't make profit from selling them yet. Yes the reworked Cutlass can carry two bikes and have enough room for cargo and 6 passengers. Yes cargo boxes can be carried around by your character, but lately the moons' surfaces are quicksand (collision bug) so it's not fun landing ships and vehicles on them.
Q: What improved feature do you like most in 3.0?
A: It's tough to choose just one. My top 3 are the improved party system, improved inventory, and the inner thought selection. Least? the limited fuel we're given, preventing us from reaching other planets in the Stanton System.
Q: Is it true the secret derelict ship is the Javelin? Where can you find it?
A: That is true. It can be found in one of Daymar's plateaus between OM4 and OM6 buoys. It's tough to triangulate because it's one of many unmarked derelict sites and it's surrounded by other land features. It's a lot bigger than I thought it would be. I've yet to see it from space. Levski can be seen from OM2. Its mining hole is a dead giveaway.
Q: What do you say to people who want to end the Evocati phase now and release 3.0 as is?
A: Those people either have short-term memories or they weren't there to experience 2.0 in all its crashing bug-ridden glory. 3.0, as is, still needs a lot of bug-fixing and improvements. Missions aren't working as intended for obvious reasons, and cargo still needs a lot of work. Moons' surfaces are still quicksand and CTDs happen at truly random times. Outpost markers still only appear when you're outside your ship, making it tedious to reach marked outposts. The mobiGlas' star map and inventory apps are still buggy and unresponsive at times. NPCs aren't interact-able yet. The x000x errors are very prevalent, preventing a percentage of ETF members from loading into the game. Insurance still doesn't work as intended, preventing previously-used ships to be locked. The only workaround for insurance-locked ships seems to be re-copying your account to PTU every patch which becomes tedious quickly. Point is, 3.0 is not ready to be tested by non-NDA testers. The wait for 3.0 is painful, but the aggravation and the mountain of salt it will add to the pile is not worth it for the average backer. Patience and persistence is very much a desired trait for testing builds like 3.0.
Q: I know you hate predictions but do you believe 3.0 PTU will come this year?
A: I stand by my previous answer. Don't expect it this month.
And that's it for this week. Enjoy and discuss. To my fellow U.S. citizens, go vote!
P.S. For those who may be angry about the surprise derelict being spoiled, it was your choice to click on this spoiler thread.
Cargo sounds like a lot of fun! No wonder people can't wait to get it in the PTU!
Or then again, :ohdear:
Today's Evocati leak
...
Star Citizen Evocati 3.0. Quick! Before they pull it.
Yeah, Goons also have a GIF of it
https://media.giphy.com/media/3ohs7VLthtxC2yQMsU/giphy.gif
Derek, is there a CitizenCon 2017 roundup coming from you?
As a quick question to you and others here that DO KNOW this stuff. Does Amazon's Lumber Yard do well with networking? In other words, is it Lumberyard being choked by CIG's Frankenengine or is it an incompatibility with it?
They're completely and utterly fucked; and Star Citizen will never - ever - be an MMO. Backers should just pray that they are one day able to play with 32 of their friends in a session. Fucking :lol: if they all have multi-crew ships.
So... how long until Star Citizen has Loot-boxes implemented?
So... how long until Star Citizen has Loot-boxes implemented?
So... how long until Star Citizen has Loot-boxes implemented?
Finally, as you may have heard during the final presentation at CitizenCon, we are going to switch over to a quarterly release schedule for the PU in order to provide content drops on a more consistent basis. To that end, we will be modifying the Beyond 3.0 Overview section to a new PU Roadmap that will show you exactly where the various features and additions will fall in our quarterly release schedule. If a feature requires more work, then it will transition into the next release. This roadmap will be posted once 3.0.0 goes Live.
So... how long until Star Citizen has Loot-boxes implemented?*snorts* Maybe they could get Perfect World to help them with their coding?
One question that came up often was the difference between a ‘task’ and a ‘bug.’ A task can be anything from crafting a feature to refining a game mechanic to improve the player experience.
Besides running out of money, CIG is now also running out of ways to tell the backers that there is no progress in developing the game and that it will not be released ever. As soon as they don't have any other way of suggesting some form of progress, they will push out 3.0 and file for bankruptcy. I wonder if there is a developer left who actually believes this game will make it. They're probably all just working for their paycheck and applying for a new job left right and center.
Dear CIG,
yes, it's me again.
I was very curious how you would manage this new Burndown and schedule report format in a way, that every Backer would be able to understand.
And as it turns out, you don't. You don't even provide a "guide" on how to read or interpret your numbers that you provide (That was done by @sqrw and thanks for that).
So what did you change for the better? Nothing. You don't even put the numbers into the context of last week. It's just a picture for 4-5 seconds and nobody mentions what's on it in the segment afterwards.
Not even in the "summary" there is a summary. Just a "we're making progress" no effing shit, you're "making progress" since last year.
And one thing that I really dislike is, if you actually record meetings, then give us the real deal, don't make a cut in the middle of a sentense. That is rude AND smells fishy. Was the dev to say something that would actually be a valid information of the status of 3.0?
Most of that that was shown were "features" or "minor improvements", except for the "lights out - when ships spawn - bug", so honestly, we are in an Alpha, so these things don't matter!
And since I honestly doubt CIG still knows what Alpha actually means (except for beeing a good excuse when something doesn't work) here's a link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Alpha (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Alpha)
Is it really necessary to delay a release because the "shopping terminals look added on" or other minor nitpicks? Hell no! I know CR is a perfectionist, but, as mentioned above, we're in an alpha, not the actual release. So give us the janky stuff and patch the good stuff in later. You've got that "awesome new Delta Patcher" don't you? So make use of it.
And the best part is, Erik doesn't even talk about "full release" anymore. He just mentioned PTU Release of 3.0. I wonder why? Maybe because the overall count wen't up (in most segments by nearly 50%) and you're running out of time for this year.
You've got 2 major events coming up (The end of Kickstarter Event, and the Holiday "live" stream), which take time to coordinate and "develop" the stuff for it. And you've roughly got 4-5 weeks left.
Is that enough to smash 78 Bugs and manage 262 Tasks? Looking back at the previous burndown segments where you only focused on one part of the game and it took 3 weeks to smash 20 bugs... well... I doubt it.
Which leads me to the same thing I asked for last week: Honesty.
Will you be able to manage a 3.0 release this year? Yes or no? Or will you do the dodgy solution and just release it on PTU, if so, why wait? It was good enough for 2 major events this year and it is good enough for 1000 Evocati. So why isn't it good enough for the rest of us? Many of whom are here from the beginning.
Btw. I don't believe this whole "they test specifics" story, if so you wouldn't need 1000 players just for that. And if it were true, why don't you do an ATV segment and let us look behind the curtain? Record what the Evocati actually do and show it to us. Maybe... every week in ATV, in Burndown? Heck Burndown almost takes 20 minutes and doesn't provide that much actual information. Get rid of the meeting recordings, keep the devs talking about bugs but add the Evocati Recordings.
So overall, another week, another failure on the honesty front. Maybe next week?
Best regards
Let's be honest. The Whales bought (nearly) all the Pioneers so the pressure is off until the next scheduled ship sale, at which point they'll suddenly appear to make progress, like a release to PTU - again all heavily NDA'd. Not that I'm cynical or anything, but it's a proven business model for CIG now, I don't expect them to stop just because there's no viable game.The problem is can they implement the ship mechanics faster than they are selling new concept?
CIG can't even release their "basic" moon tech and these fools are over there theory crafting about how they will be able to fly into gas giants that look like the linked picture and how they will have to deal with radiation, turbulence, gravity and such to harvest resources. Meanwhile in reality land CIG can't produce the most basic of floating rock mining systems. I can't comprend the disconnect these people have from reality given the current evidence available.
It was really that slow of a frame rate? It looks really craptastic. I bet lots of citizens won't care. They will proclaim OOH AAH Fidelity!
It was really that slow of a frame rate? It looks really craptastic. I bet lots of citizens won't care. They will proclaim OOH AAH Fidelity!
So... how long until Star Citizen has Loot-boxes implemented?
First they'll have a loot box concept sale so you can pick up limited edition loot box Jpegs.
Not at all surprising, some have already dutifully pointed out that SC is still in alpha and that anyone whining about low fps in an alpha build doesn't understand game development and shouldn't be here among the big boys.
Of course, frame rates aren't a huge issue in early alpha. Far more significant is that, five years and tens of millions after a "working prototype" was unveiled to the public, it's a matter of debate whether what they have is a pre-alpha or early alpha. You know, we shoulda made it to Moscow by now.
I have no words, but this is the latest patch notes
No game loop, no actual missions. Just moving rubber dog shit from A to B.
Since they are...by their own admission....still working on their engine and don't have all functionality complete, the game is still in a pre-Alpha state. They are working TO an Alpha build...not working ON an Alpha build.
The only way CR can continue making money is with more ship sales - so he can't ever "release" the game otherwise the ship sales would effectively stop. It has to be in perpetual "nearly there" development to keep the whales spending.
Improved audio for size 4 Behring laser cannon
A pilot seat should no longer be left on the pad after spawning a ship
BTW, Derek, I'm a C++ guy, so can you tell me if this is what the Java guys refer to as "garbage collection":QuoteA pilot seat should no longer be left on the pad after spawning a ship
I don't mean to downplay the importance of getting cargo missions working but thank goodness they expanded the schedule to include this task and finish it - nothing's stopping PTU release now!QuoteImproved audio for size 4 Behring laser cannon
BTW, Derek, I'm a C++ guy, so can you tell me if this is what the Java guys refer to as "garbage collection":QuoteA pilot seat should no longer be left on the pad after spawning a ship
BTW, Derek, I'm a C++ guy, so can you tell me if this is what the Java guys refer to as "garbage collection":QuoteA pilot seat should no longer be left on the pad after spawning a ship
Yes, that bug became apparent during the recent 60 players per server stress test. An Evocati leaked a screenshot of it:
(http://ilpiccolo.gelocal.it/polopoly_fs/1.8644823.1401971365!/httpImage/image._gen/derivatives/landscape_250/image.)
They should junk CryEngine. The engine has outgrown the usefulness. They would need to get custom game-engine that can do massive LOD (Load on Demand, not Line of Defense), have correct memory management and stack-walkers, Vulcan or DX12 or the Sony-variant of OpenGL (PSGL) to work with the graphics.It is too late to develop a custom engine. Star Citizen only makes money by repeatedly promising to be nearly finished so they can keep up the hype for ship sales. If they change engine then the whales might realise that it's going to be years before they see any more progress and get cold feet. Remember how they lied about how easy it was to change to Lumberyard.
It's too late. To ask to develop an engine now... would cost extra in millions. Get another jpeg ship sale and lootbox GIFs to rake in millions more. LOL
... is an art project at the end of the day
Specs
Game configuration was 2560x1440P - Very High - V-Sync Off.
Hardware'
GPU: GTX 1070 overclocked by about 10%
CPU: Intel i5 4690K overclocked to 4.6Ghz
16GB of DDR3 System Ram running at 2.4Ghz
Server Performance Testing
GREETINGS AVOCADOS!
Tonight (2017-11-14) we will be doing some complex playtest data collection and we need your assistance!
Before we begin:
Please ensure that you are running r_displayinfo 3 at all times.
Please pay very close attention to chat and follow all instructions from CIG Staff.
Test Instructions:
When we are ready for you to begin testing we will ask you to join in on the PTU Servers.
This test is going to consist of multiple phases and we need your FPS Data from each phase:
Spawn at Port Olisar and go outside to Pad A00
After data collection, a CIG Employee will advance the phase via chat, return inside to ASOP and spawn SMALL SHIPS
Take your small ship and position yourself somewhere safely above Port Olisar.
After data collection, a CIG Employee will advance the phase via chat, then pick a moon/station of your choosing and spread out away from other players.
After data collection, a CIG Employee will advance the phase via chat, ditch your ships in orbit/on surfaces and get back to Port Olisar.
Spawn LARGE SHIPS and hover over Port Olisar.
After data collection, a CIG Employee will advance the phase via chat, pick a moon/station of your choosing and spread out away from other players.
Once we have collected this final set of data we will shut down the servers and migrate to a new set to perform additional tests as needed.
While waiting for new servers, please use the following Response Template to reply to this thread with all the information we need to collect added in:
CIG Staff will be present in most servers forwarding / updating chat with further testing instructions.
It started out as a bunch of commandos hanging around on the landing pads. Stress test level amount of commandos, like 30+ or something.
He ran inside and ordered his ride from the console, then was directed to a pad, with a pip on the screen for his ship. When he got there, it wasn't the ship type he had requested. It was literally the wrong ship. He turned to look around the pad at a Connie falling over the side, clipping, or whatever. When he turned back around, his ship had become an entirely different ship. It was like a magic trick. He literally turned around and an entirely different ship was there. He told discord about the weirdness, then someone ran past him and said that new ship was theirs.
He then ran back to the requisition computer, and found his ship was on another pad. He then went over there, found an adjacent ship, gave a shot at trying to enter the bay, and said he's probably going to hit an invisible wall. He then totally ran against an invisible wall in the cargo bay. He then ran over to his ship, tried to enter his ship through the bay, the internal door refused to open or have any interaction whatsoever. He finally accessed the side hatch at the end of the video.
The whole time, whenever people were spawning ships, the FPS totally ate it.
We need fps counter numbers in screenshots :DPoor fools, I suspect the admins probably won't allow the link anyway.
That was awful. Frame rates as low as 13fps, ships spawning to be replaced by someone else's ships in front of your eyes.13fps was good - wait till you get to the end of the clip :laugh:
NOTHING has improved about the frame rate or the networking. Nothing. Like, at all.
Meanwhile, they're still issuing threats.
(https://i.imgur.com/2axgMBx.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/ryZhxD4.png)
Meanwhile, in Infinity Battlescape, ...
It started out as a bunch of commandos hanging around on the landing pads. Stress test level amount of commandos, like 30+ or something.
He ran inside and ordered his ride from the console, then was directed to a pad, with a pip on the screen for his ship. When he got there, it wasn't the ship type he had requested. It was literally the wrong ship. He turned to look around the pad at a Connie falling over the side, clipping, or whatever. When he turned back around, his ship had become an entirely different ship. It was like a magic trick. He literally turned around and an entirely different ship was there. He told discord about the weirdness, then someone ran past him and said that new ship was theirs.
He then ran back to the requisition computer, and found his ship was on another pad. He then went over there, found an adjacent ship, gave a shot at trying to enter the bay, and said he's probably going to hit an invisible wall. He then totally ran against an invisible wall in the cargo bay. He then ran over to his ship, tried to enter his ship through the bay, the internal door refused to open or have any interaction whatsoever. He finally accessed the side hatch at the end of the video.
The whole time, whenever people were spawning ships, the FPS totally ate it.
For those of you who missed the Evocati video above, before it was pulled.
For those of you who missed the Evocati video above, before it was pulled.QuoteIt started out as a bunch of commandos hanging around on the landing pads. Stress test level amount of commandos, like 30+ or something.
He ran inside and ordered his ride from the console, then was directed to a pad, with a pip on the screen for his ship. When he got there, it wasn't the ship type he had requested. It was literally the wrong ship. He turned to look around the pad at a Connie falling over the side, clipping, or whatever. When he turned back around, his ship had become an entirely different ship. It was like a magic trick. He literally turned around and an entirely different ship was there. He told discord about the weirdness, then someone ran past him and said that new ship was theirs.
He then ran back to the requisition computer, and found his ship was on another pad. He then went over there, found an adjacent ship, gave a shot at trying to enter the bay, and said he's probably going to hit an invisible wall. He then totally ran against an invisible wall in the cargo bay. He then ran over to his ship, tried to enter his ship through the bay, the internal door refused to open or have any interaction whatsoever. He finally accessed the side hatch at the end of the video.
The whole time, whenever people were spawning ships, the FPS totally ate it.
I have a lot of questions about that video; here's one: There's a heartbeat/health monitor in the lower left of the frame - it bobs up and down when the player moves. That's the "head bob" I guess. But it's supposed to be a HUD on the inside of his helmet. Leave aside the amount of the bobble, but why is it bobbing at all? Is that the way real helmets attached to suits work - your own head bobs up and down inside it? I don't really wear helmets but I don't remember my full motorcycle helmet behaving that way.
OK, here's another question: Why do the animations of players walking about appear to slide about on the surface, out of sync with distance actually travelled? I mean, I know why - they're borked up - but first, why is that happening now after years of these animations, and second, why doesn't anyone comment on that as a problem?
It's already down.For those of you who missed the Evocati video above, before it was pulled.QuoteIt started out as a bunch of commandos hanging around on the landing pads. Stress test level amount of commandos, like 30+ or something.
He ran inside and ordered his ride from the console, then was directed to a pad, with a pip on the screen for his ship. When he got there, it wasn't the ship type he had requested. It was literally the wrong ship. He turned to look around the pad at a Connie falling over the side, clipping, or whatever. When he turned back around, his ship had become an entirely different ship. It was like a magic trick. He literally turned around and an entirely different ship was there. He told discord about the weirdness, then someone ran past him and said that new ship was theirs.
He then ran back to the requisition computer, and found his ship was on another pad. He then went over there, found an adjacent ship, gave a shot at trying to enter the bay, and said he's probably going to hit an invisible wall. He then totally ran against an invisible wall in the cargo bay. He then ran over to his ship, tried to enter his ship through the bay, the internal door refused to open or have any interaction whatsoever. He finally accessed the side hatch at the end of the video.
The whole time, whenever people were spawning ships, the FPS totally ate it.
OK someone who downloaded the video, has re-hosted it
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x69d2ql
It's already down.
So, really what we're doing with Star Citizen is we're working on the game, adding features for an incredibly ambitious design – I don't think there is any other game that is trying to do as much as we're trying to do. So, degree of difficulty 11, not 10. And, we'll have what we determine is a minimum viable product feature list for what you would call Star Citizen the commercial release which is basically when you say, "Okay, we've gotten to this point and we've still got plans to add a lot more cool stuff and more content and more functionality and more features…" – Which by the way includes some of the later stretch goals we have because not all of that is going to be for 'absolutely right here' on the commercial release. But we'll have something that we'll think, 'Okay yeah, not everyone can play it but it doesn't matter – you can load it up, it plays really well, it's really stable, there's lots of content, there's lots of fun things to do, different professions, lots of places to go, we've got a really good ecosystem.' So, when we get to that point that's when we would say, "Now it's not alpha, it's not beta, it's Star Citizen 1.0."
You pasted in those charts upside down, right? 'Cause if they're not upside down ... this project's going in the wrong direction ...
Going bankrupt won't save Chris and his croonies. When CIG crashed, the real drama will start.
It has the feel of a last little desperate push for cash before the ELE :laugh:
(https://i.imgur.com/uPgDfdi.png)You could argue the drought began at either GrimHex or Star Marine when you compare the number of releases before each event to the number afterward.
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/7e2y7w/release_timeline/
I've never seen this sub reddit so salty.
I haven't noticed anybody in any recent reddit thread attributing delays to "tool development" such that things will move faster in the future once all this great tooling-under-development is in place! So maybe that excuse is finally retired.
BTW, speaking of the drought - I haven't noticed anybody in any recent reddit thread attributing delays to "tool development" such that things will move faster in the future once all this great tooling-under-development is in place! So maybe that excuse is finally retired.
They wont be as long because getting to 3.0 was the hard part. They have the delta patcher now, they have the tools to build cities, planets, ships. There is more work to do but the things required to build the universe efficiently is there.
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/7e2y7w/release_timeline/
I've never seen this sub reddit so salty. When you lay out the timeline as above, it's painfully apparent how little progress has been made. I'm sure it won't stop the whales emptying their wallets at the holiday sale to keep the project stumbling on for another year.
Haven't they figured it out yet? Chris Robbers will never say anything, at least as long as his holiday ship sales are coming up. He has the potential to sucker them for a million dollars or possibly more if the hype train is still running.
He might announce the sad news after the sale because the risk will be minimal. Then he will claim that we are almost there and throws in a word like Subsumption, AI, or netcode as the cause of the delay. Only then will he again mention the new periodic patch drop system. I bet that will become his excuse to delay any patches until March- April. Then they will get 2.8.11.163 The toilet paper patch.
This will be a thinly veiled excuse of a patch that will be as useful as wet toilet paper.
they have 10 days to make $6.5 million in order to match last years funding
lol
Total in November 2017 (so far): $1,081,927
Total in November 2016 (total): $7,776,767
last year they pulled in an amazing $6,738,501 during their 12 day anniversary sale, so it could happen! of course, speculation last year was that 3.0 and a huge number of game systems were right around the corner for jan/feb 2017 at the absolute latest, along with a hanger or flight ready status for a ton of new concept ships
they need about the same level of funding as last year, but I'm thinking they won't hit above $5m this november (prediction models indicate sub $4m, but never underestimate how fucking stupid these people are)
Q: How’s ship combat? Did they really buff the Gladius?
A: With a “no PVP unless stated otherwise” rule in ETF and no combat focused testing yet, I don’t know.
Q: If you weren’t in Evocati Test Flight what would you be doing to pass the time during the Great Drought?
A: I’d be playing Space Engineers, Stellaris, Empyrion, Astroneer, Hellion, Elite Dangerous, or my old copy of Freelancer. I certainly wouldn’t be spending my free time being salty on the internet.
Q: How are the bikes and rover handling now?
A: The Dragonfly is working much better than the Nox lately, while the Ursa rover is much more stable than the bikes. The Dragonfly does better in off-road terrain while the Nox works best on smooth surfaces like the race track at Deakins Outpost. The Nox still tends to flip on its side and turning with the Nox is like riding a stallion without a saddle. There’s still the issue of collision with both bikes and the rover. With the bikes, hitting a boulder on the moon surface sends you flying into the air and flipping uncontrollably. With the Ursa rover, it jumps upward when hitting obstacles and flips over. Parking the bikes into ships is still tricky where they move erratically trying to conform to the larger ship’s internal grid. Parking the rover inside the Connie is less problematic than the bikes, but it tends to slip through the cargo bay floor when closing them. That bug needs to be fixed. With Patch X, the bikes can now strafe up and down and they automatically switch from hover mode to flight mode if you can get high enough above the surface.
GOG has a Black Friday sale: the whole bundle of Wing Commander for $ 10,- (https://www.gog.com/promo/20171121_black_friday_sale_wing_commander_pack) :D
:lol:
New schedule report is out. Notice how the list of bugs is no longer present. You know, cuz there's a sale going on. :laugh:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/schedule-report
Because, truth be told, CiG is small potatoes in the industry at large. While the cult think they're a big, huge deal, the truth is no one really cares about them anymore.:lol:
New schedule report is out. Notice how the list of bugs is no longer present. You know, cuz there's a sale going on. :laugh:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/schedule-report
Its funny how EA gets national attention over loot boxes and their greedy tactics, but everyone looks the other way and accepts CIG's downright fraudulent marketing. Honestly, it just makes me sad that a company can even get away with crap like this today.
5 years ago this month
Q: How are NPCs coming along?
A: They’re still confined to the player hubs, but they make the hubs feel alive especially Levski.
Q: How are NPCs coming along?
A: They’re still confined to the player hubs, but they make the hubs feel alive especially Levski.
Yeah, I can totally see that.
(https://i.imgur.com/zNeeq9L.jpg)
5 years ago this month
The reference to NMS is not correct. NMS was released as a game, and as promised. However prior to that, all the backers went completely overboard in their fantasizing about what it all would, could and should do. And Sean didn't do enough to correct them/that. So the backers created their own hype and went mad when their - not Sean's - visions weren't met.
The reference to NMS is not correct. NMS was released as a game, and as promised. However prior to that, all the backers went completely overboard in their fantasizing about what it all would, could and should do. And Sean didn't do enough to correct them/that. So the backers created their own hype and went mad when their - not Sean's - visions weren't met.
Finally someone else said this - I thought I was alone in the universe in spotting this. Gaming communities are particularly adept at creating their own realities, even with near-infinite amounts of indisputable and rock-solid evidence right in front of them.
You see this shit everywhere: Ultima Online was "killed" with PVE-PVP sharding. (So killed that it's still going today.) SWG was "killed" by the NGE. (SWG was slated to be cancelled due to lack of profit - the NGE was a hail Mary pass.) Theses opinions are repeated all over the net as fact, drowning out the actual events, until anyone casually researching years later only finds the wrong data, which gets repeated authoritatively until the truth becomes nearly impossible to find.
That Gamasutra article's fairly interesting.
https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/RaphKoster/20150417/241406/A_Jedi_Saga.php
Do they think it's going to improve much from the buggy picture show it is? They won't remain satisfied with this. At the worst things will continue in a slow decline. Fewer and fewer backers finding merit in playing the same limited jobs, ships not making it through the pipeline and serving no use in game. Fewer people wasting money on the latest flavor of fighter until staff cuts slow the already slow improvements to a glacial crawl.
Even on Reddit there's some serious shit being debated (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/7h5s31/lets_tell_us_the_trueth_about_30/)
Every ship in Red, isn't in the game at this point.
Every ship in Red, isn't in the game at this point.
HOLY SHIT! Look at all of those ships from 3-4 years ago. How are people not LIVID over the fact that ships they've paid hundreds/thousands for are not in the "game"?
Pretty much the patches have gotten progressively worse - if you can imagine that.
Every ship in Red, isn't in the game at this point.
HOLY SHIT! Look at all of those ships from 3-4 years ago. How are people not LIVID over the fact that ships they've paid hundreds/thousands for are not in the "game"?
Exactly, and how many of those red ones do you think are even being worked on? I don't believe for a second that a speck of work has been done on the Hull-* series beyond the initial concepting.
Adventure report from the PTU tonight. My self-imposed mission: complete one in-game "Quest."
Attempt #1:
Spawned in the wank pod and despite running a whole bunch of config changes and various performance tweaks, the game was as much of a 3 fps slideshow as ever. I jittered my way out of bed and then painstakingly made my way to the ship spawn chamber. Seriously this took about 3 minutes. Every time an npc would t-pose onto the screen or stutter-dance around a corner, my whole computer would freeze up for 5-10 seconds. It was like a horror movie except instead of murdered by the uncontrollably vibrating monsters I just got kind of mildly irritated. The consolation is that at least once you get out of port Ollisar the whole experience smooths out somewhat. Why they decided to make every player spawn in a tiny area when their main server performance issue occurs due to player density, I'll never know.
Eventually managed to make it to the ship spawner and decided to spawn an "Aegis Saber Tomcat Punches Above Its Weight Edition Mk 7." No idea what it was, just one of the PTU ships they allow players to spawn, but I was guessing that it was a single seat fighter because that is everything now. It spawned on pad C07. Painstakingly janked my way to the airlock and... it wouldn't open. That's no problem, dealt with that before, the solution is to jank your way to one of the other airlocks and then laboriously work your way back to your landing pad from the outside. Went to the next closest airlock- also broken. I should point out here that this bug has been in the game since 2.0 launched in fucking 2015 and they still haven't fixed it. Eventually after checking every airlock on the level, I found one that would let me out- on the far side of the pads from my ship. Great! Ran out into space. I decided it'd be faster to jump off the pads and then nipplejet my way over to my ship. Jumped off the pads, and my character went into a tumble animation and just kind of stayed there, 2 feet away from my launch point, flailing wildly and never returning control. Eventually I found the buttons to kill myself.
Attempt #2:
Back in the wank pod. Same shaky journey to the outside, where I discovered that my ASTPAIWE Mk7 was still spawned... on a whole separate set of pads from the one I respawned on. Undeterred, I threw myself off the landing platforms again and this time the nipplejets kicked into life. With a mighty fssssshhhhhh I kicked the jets in and spent the next 5+ minutes staring boredly at chat while my spaceman inched over to my ship. I guess some other people were planning to all hop in a caterpillar and fly to one of the planets but they couldn't get the doors to work? I made a mental note to grief them if I finished my mission.
Finally arriving at the ship, I noted that it was indeed a single-seat fighter, I guess... some kind of stealth ship? I didn't really take long to think about the ramifications of a stealth ship in a world where all combat happens at WW2 dogfight ranges and everything fires bright red lasers. Got in the ship, and miracle of miracles was able to take off without any jank. Now, when I say "Without any jank" I should clarify- everything in the game sucks shit. At no point in this experience did my fps jump above 5, and my spaceman is barely controllable at the best of times. But I didn't clip through anything, and didn't die, and that is a win in a Citizen's book. That's living the fucking dream. So anyway I pop into the ship and get a notification that I now have missions waiting for me to accept them if I will only bring up my retarded wrist-mounted HUD. So I hit f1 and the spaceman begins repeatedly punching himself in the dick really hard which I guess is what happens when the "Open menu" animation bugs out and starts looping. I'd heard that the bugfix for this is to just mash f1 a thousand more times, so I do that and eventually get to a menu.
Accepting the contract and navigating to it isn't easy. I'm going on some sort of rescue mission which the text says is on Delamar, the nav beacon that pops up (but I can't warp to) says is in intergalactic space, and the star map says is on Yela. Since the only one I can actually warp to is the one on the star map, I set it as my destination and proceed to hammer the "B" button a thousand times, which is the preferred method of engaging one's quantum drive. I like to imagine that all of the spaceships in the game are basically eastern european autos and all spacemen are in a permanent drunken rage as they hammer the shit out of every control just to get any kind of response. It makes the whole thing slightly less frustrating.
Anyway I get to Yela and it turns out the "Help" beacon spawned inside an asteroid so the person I'm supposed to protect dies instantly. Mission failed.
Attempt #3:
But that's okay because I'm being offered a new mission! Fly over to a wrecked starfarer and collect "The Goods." Deliver them to such and such for who cares and get like 300 credits. I know these are MMO quests and therefor basically just ways to waste your time, but it feels like if a crate is worth recovering from a wrecked spaceship you should probably pay more than the space equivalent of bus fare to whichever mercenary picks it up for you. But what do I know. Luckily the beacon for this is like 30 km away from the asteroid with the failed protection mission, so I don't have to quantum jump anywhere. I point the nose of my ship at the beacon and settle in for another 2 minute flight.
As I arrive, what to my wondering eyes should appear but another actual human being! Or at least, I assume it was. There's the wrecked starfarer, and there nestled up against its belly is a Cutlass that registers as friendly when I target it. Despite the ridiculous close-packed nature of the spawn, this is the first player I've encountered while just flying around in several hours of playing this stupid build. Naturally I set engines to full burn and just hammer those motherfucking triggers as the game devolves into a 1fps slideshow- I mean clearly he was after my loot, it's completely justified. I guess the pilot was actually in the cockpit because the cutlass begins trying to make evasive maneuvers, but either he flies in a straight line or he isn't pounding his controls hard enough because it is incredibly easy to track him and just lay on the fire until he explodes. That was... really odd, actually. Ships in 3.0 are normally completely unkillable due to lag and jank and weird balance issues. I played Arena Commander once (once) and none of the three guys on my team could kill even a single ship of the first wave, they just tanked everything.
So anyway the cutlass is dead and with one nefarious act of piracy under my belt I try to figure out how to get out of my fucking ship to get this loot. Unfortunately entering combat has A) destroyed the server, and B) destroyed my hud, including the "Push F to actually use anything in the cockpit" system that everyone is so keen on. So I'm still stuck at 1FPS and now nothing in the cockpit will respond except flight controls. Eventually I remember there's a hardcoded "Exit" key, Alt-F, and hammer that two thousand times until my guy gets up. Now all I have to do is fly into the crashed starfarer and retrieve a simple box.
Let me digress here for a moment. Do games ever make you feel motion sick? Can you remember the last time a game was so completely disorienting that you had no idea what way was up? For me it was the Descent games back in the 90's. Something about those suckers would just fuck with my inner ear something fierce. Flight sims and VR can't hold a candle to that feeling.
Well, Star Citizen can. See the thing is, the Starfarer is wrecked, so it has no power. That means the inside is zero-G, pitch black, and covered in floating debris. And every time you touch any piece of that debris, your spaceman starts doing sick 360 noscopes. Within seconds I'm completely disoriented, before half a minute has passed I am actually physically nauseous. The box, literally labelled "The Goods" is only 20m away but it might as well be 200. I seriously cannot make any progress towards it down a straight line fucking corridor, my spaceman janks and spins wildly every time I touch a control. But I am undeterred. I stand up and do a shot of maalox and then inch, ever so carefully, around every fucking piece of debris and down that hallway. The final door is in sight but it is covered in other boxes. I have no choice but to nipplejet straight at it and hope that I can bust through like some kind of retarded kool-aid man. Somehow, this actually works! I find myself in front of "The Goods" and somehow, manage to engage my grabby hands! This mission is so close to being over I can taste it. Now I just have to maneuver my way back out.
I hear laser fire from outside. Well, I assume it's laser fire. I hear noises, space noises, chopped up into incomprehensibility by the 1-2 fps that I'm getting. Did Cutlass man come back? Did the game spawn pirates on me when I got the box? I can't lose now! Slowly, caaarefully I - fuck, touched some debris, time for the zero-g tilt-a-whirl from hell again. I get back out the door and to the ship- I'm guessing it is NPC pirates shooting at it, but I really can't tell. Either way they appear to be doing zero damage to my entirely stationary, powered-off ship. Sure, okay.
I jet to the ship, pilfered goods in hand, and at last the moment is upon us. "Enter pilot seat" I tell my character, and he does just that- immediately chucking the box into the void of fucking space as he enters his pre-canned animation god DAMN IT. So apparently if you have single seat fighters, you should basically not do any mission that involves moving any kind of good because you literally have to physically stuff that shit in your ship, I guess? CIG I feel that you perhaps did not think any of this through very well.
In order to complete the mission I'd have to fight off the two basically invincible npc's, fly back to jankbase prime, spawn a ship with a cargo area, come back and redo the starfarer carnival ride bullshit a second time. I want to emphasize, this is a starter mission, paying 300 credits, and to complete it you're going to need 1+ hour and a ship that costs more than 100 bucks- one that can fight and carry cargo.
Mission abandoned.
Thank you for the kind words everyone. Not sure how often I'm going to do any kind of PTU writeup because it really is a pile of unfun garbage, but if I find something amusing I will write about it for you.
It really can't be emphasized enough how bad the combat is right now. There's a reason all of the posts on the subreddit, and all of the streamer videos, feature people just flying from planet to planet and loading/unloding cargo- you literally cannot fight in the current build of the PTU. Between super low framerates, input lag in the 2-3second range, and targets jittering all over the screen like coked up hummingbirds, it's next to impossible to land a shot. Even if you do, some asshole at CIG decided to make combat more like Elite, I guess, which means your average engagement if you can hit the target will take 3-4 minutes just to do enough damage that they die. And there is literally nothing stopping them from ignoring you for the 10 seconds it takes to set a jump destination and fly away if they feel like they're losing. Not that you could tell you were losing because, as far as I can see, the shield indicators don't work and the damage states are broken as fuck. Missiles almost never hit, and if they do hit seem to do next to no damage.
I'm actually really excited for them to fix the FPS. The game is stable enough that it doesn't crash very often already, and the only reason it is so riveting is because just fighting through the lag and low FPS to land on a planet feels like a real achievement. Smooth those framerates out and people are going to get tired of wanking over landing and go try to actually do things in the PTU, only to realize that literally every system is either a stubbed-in placeholder, or broken, or both.
Mission abandoned.
a newsletter advertising a newsletter ??? :vince:
So, this is the all-or-nothing do-or-die SQ42 card that CIG now is pulling?
I'm guessing this will not bring what Chris had hoped. It already wasn't to begin with, but it sure as hell won't be now with the lawsuit and Coutts dropping in.
I bought for hundreds of dollars their pretty JPEGs but all I got was this lousy newsletterEven the JPEG buying cult agree that loot box is evil and EA is shit, but spending $1000 on JPEG is awesome. Clearly BF2 in a lesser game than Star citizen, because $60 cant buy you more than the $200 JPEG. Would you buy an Irdis or buy a copy of BF2? The BF2 is a broken mess without P2W feature, Irdis is not P2W is not a broken mess, it actually has content and game play 2nd to none.
Fly Safe !Just remember that Scott Manley somehow got hold of a free "press account".
That's actually a rather heartening thread. A lot of people speaking truth and not getting the shit downvoted out of them. This really does feel like a turning point. If they actually push to release this thing live before the end of the year it's going to be catastrophic.
I'm pretty excited.
Is it me or do they always only fix bugs I never even noticed?:-)
I remember it in XWing and Wing Commander 3.
Freespace ditched it.
For me that control is not really useful during combat, i prefer to choose the ship or the components before the mission.
Maybe it's just me, but I can only imagine that opening up mobiglass and requesting landing/takeoff every friggin' time is going to get old real quick.
Chris doesn't get that 'exactly like real life' doesn't equal fun. People play games so that they don't have to go do boring stuff, not so that they can simulate waiting in line at the DMV.
I'm note entirely sure that Ben Parry understands what he's talking about. The good news is that both Cryengine or Lumberyard support volumetric fog:
http://docs.aws.amazon.com/lumberyard/latest/userguide/rendering-graphics-fog-volumetric.html
http://docs.cryengine.com/display/SDKDOC2/Volumetric+Fog
But I guess CIG are rapidly rewriting everything so that they can claim to be using their own custom built engine when they get to court.
Space tank! SOLD!!
(https://i.imgur.com/bRFKG91.png)
Yeah. As I say... that's just stupid because in the meantime, nothing gets done.
On the other hand it looks like at best it's going to give them a couple hundred thousand boost which is peanuts really. They're slowly getting less and less return on each sale, which means they have to do sales more often, which means people may eventually get sick of their shit.
3.0 PTU has been opened to all backers!There aren't many left, are there? How about another Free Flight week?
BREAKING!
3.0 PTU has been opened to all backers! (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/4/thread/ptu-build-status)
Merry Christmas everybody!
And isn't it marvellous that they are in "the first phase of testing" !
Bring out the rest of Santa's little helpers...with their Christmas spending money...
(http://www.elfcrazy.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/christmas-elf-world-record.jpg)
feels like this is good of a thread as any to wish all of you magnificent goons/shitlords a merry xmas :toot:Thanks. Same to you....all of you ;)
feels like this is good of a thread as any to wish all of you magnificent goons/shitlords a merry xmas :toot:
If anyone can answer or provide details on what Clive is proposing is possible? Can server meshes and handle 1000 players? A person name Valaska seems to have some knowledge and greatly disagrees.
Live stream talking about have massive server meshes to accommodate 1000 people. So I grabbed that and put into to google and got this thread.
I have grasped a few things about game development reading and researching. The only thing in this thread I have put my hands on is VM and used extensively. I have built cluster systems using MS and ONtap but not sure if these are similar to game servers.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/50259/thread/how-many-people-can-be-in-an-instance/198078
If anyone can answer or provide details on what Clive is proposing is possible? Can server meshes and handle 1000 players? A person name Valaska seems to have some knowledge and greatly disagrees.
Thank you
Happy new years everyone.
I'm not sure if this is the correct thread for this or not. This popup up in suggestions:
Live stream talking about have massive server meshes to accommodate 1000 people. So I grabbed that and put into to google and got this thread.
I have grasped a few things about game development reading and researching. The only thing in this thread I have put my hands on is VM and used extensively. I have built cluster systems using MS and ONtap but not sure if these are similar to game servers.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/50259/thread/how-many-people-can-be-in-an-instance/198078
If anyone can answer or provide details on what Clive is proposing is possible? Can server meshes and handle 1000 players? A person name Valaska seems to have some knowledge and greatly disagrees.
Thank you
I don't know why on Earth people want to make Derek out as the bad guy in all this. Quite the opposite - he's clearly a talented developer with a deep sense of commitment to the space genre, and indie game development in general, and he's despairing at what he sees - a development process that more than likely will disappoint everyone who backed it, if it's not a downright failure, doing serious harm to the genre, indie development and crowdfunding of games for years to come. I'm reading posts even now where people are looking at the state of "Alpha 3.0", as little as it is after several years of development, and saying "Whelp, that was a total rubbish fire. I'm definitely not crowdfunding another indie game again".
It's a total disaster and my hat is off to Derek that he sounded the alarm bells so long ago now. He was right, and I think has already been proven so even prior to the eventual failure of the development (the ELE).
from https://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12790-4-Million-New-System-New-Ship-New-Goals
(https://i.gyazo.com/232185297cd0cb40b37a6ec9dcbfffee.png)
Above screenshot is part of the sc 'lore' explaining the collapse of the SynthWorld project but I think it sounds eerily similar to how another project might be described at its demise.
By the way, I did actually fire up 3.0 over the break.
First time it crashed as soon as I hit the key to get out of the wankpod.
Second time it just stayed at a black screen and I didn't even get to load into the game.
Third time was success! FPS was ranging in the 20s in Port Olisar according to nvidia's FPS counter but I did encounter only one other person while I was there.
As someone who hasn't actually played the game in years, my first impression is that it's extremely user unfriendly. It took me 5 minutes just to find out where the terminal was to spawn a ship. I then fucked about in the MobiGlass for a bit to see what was in there. It went okay, but that is definitely not a great UI. Anyway, I selected some mission about getting some crap from a Starfarer (?) wreck and thus began my slog to get to the fucking thing.
It is a gigantic pain in the ass if your path is blocked by a planet or something because the non quantum engines are SO slow. After finally getting out of Crusaders shadow enough to jump to a moon near the wreck, I then had to spent many minutes more skimming over the moon at full afterburner until I could get a line to the beacon near the wreck. After my spaceman had stopped flipping out enough to grab a crate from the wreck (may or may not have been the thing I was actually there for, there was no indication) I was promptly exploded by someone else while trying to wrangle the crate into the 'cargo' area of my Aurora.
All in all, not what I would call an exhilarating experience.
I solved those problems decades ago in Battlecruiser 3000AD,
If this is a reality concerning the crytek engine I canot image what they could do to comeback.
from https://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12790-4-Million-New-System-New-Ship-New-Goals
(https://i.gyazo.com/232185297cd0cb40b37a6ec9dcbfffee.png)
Above screenshot is part of the sc 'lore' explaining the collapse of the SynthWorld project but I think it sounds eerily similar to how another project might be described at its demise.
... a real life jab at CR and CIG by the writers.
New schedule report is up. 3.1 coming end of March. :lol:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/Schedule-report-05012018
Our new delivery schedule is based on dates rather than features and allows for more flexibility in development.http://mailchi.mp/cloudimperiumgames/procedural-cities-and-the-anniversary-special-schedule-140721?e=bd96992ea1 (http://mailchi.mp/cloudimperiumgames/procedural-cities-and-the-anniversary-special-schedule-140721?e=bd96992ea1)
With the release of Alpha 3.1 planned for late March, our aim is to deliver new releases quarterly, going forward. We have a lot of content and enhancements planned to roll out this year, so be sure to check out our Production Update for more details.
New schedule report is up. 3.1 coming end of March. :lol:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/Schedule-report-05012018
I just read it and the bs spouted in that note was nauseating. How much longer can they keep this farce going? CodIW and ME: Andromeda, even the updated NMS, have already made whatever SC ends up being obsolete and irrelevant. Anyone still "backing" CIG-arrets(arrests) is just feeding CR and his gang's cashcow flow. Just let it die already. The next "bdsse" should be by Frontier (upgraded ED) or some other entity with a modicum of integrity.
3.1 is about enhancing performance and polishing the gameplay systems and UI, including ships, system traversal, a large balance pass of our economy, and improving AI for spaceflight and combat.
New schedule report is up. 3.1 coming end of March. :lol:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/Schedule-report-05012018
This reads to me that we will see 100 plus star systems will be in SC before the end of 2018? When I see systems and loose themselves I think star systems? Maybe systems are more game mechanics, but I do not know I would loose myself in that.
"3.1 is about enhancing performance and polishing the gameplay systems"
It isn't much but take what you can ;)
That should answer your second question as well
If you need it more basic....
3.1 will add bug fixes and optimisations
3.2 will add some basic gameplay elements and mechanics
3.3 will expand the Stanton system
3.4 will expand the Stanton system
And yes...that should bring us to where 3.0 was expected to be when it released....going by last years timetable anyway.
So basically, v3.X is adding the shit into the techdemo they promised would be in v3.0. So expect that to be done probably sometime around 2020 or thereabouts.
If CiG lives long enough, that is.
misunderstanding. If the base tech is there and now and this is all that is planned for 2018 what in the world are 450+ people doing? How can they fathom to keep afloat at this pace and keep people interested?
I took "systems" meaning their supposed nonsense immersive "systems" in "lose yourself"-gameplay such as their aquatic tanks, visible toilets, basically squealing for "more time"(forever) to keep their ponzi going while trying to make their techdemo palatable for more brainwashed whalers to keep funding. Rather than anything to do with extra star systems outside of 'Stanton'. How laughable they used the words "lose yourself". Imagine if Mack, the WAB guy read those "words..words. of the developer", lol. @ "lose yourself"! dingDing! The "development" is such a farce that the writer of that bs note is in "pants on fire" mode or halfway drunk already.
Well, I would expect much of their 450+ somebodies to keep making timecostly but disparate textures for their vaporware ships, now adding land grants. Get ready for "land beacons" with intricate strobing , rotating details like a police siren or Lynch's Dune "thumper"-sticks (more scripted 2.6.3'ish "Dune ripoff sandworm events") And oh yes, the "tanks" as they try to mesh in another techdemo Starshitizen "galaxy of tanks" game. (world of tanks fad they are glomming on to at the moment in their desperate reaching for anything anywhere to continue to hook their funding boneheaded whalers).
ATV is back for the new year:
I can see why you got bored the first 28 mins were rough for me a lot talking but not much being said.
volumes/tags, gameplay at 29:00 min lol JK, including how great they worked on polishing 3.0 ptu,
32:00 claimed they were improving gameplay on 3.0 while people where playing
37:34 talks about inderditcions, elite enginner flashback,
41:00 server degradation monitoring
50:17 showing skype screenshots guys working 3:00 am in morning on Christmas
The fixes all my fears about SC.
52:00 data/persistance cache causing the cargo losses etc.
Thought this was interesting.
55:37 Sandi pushing tanks
To be honest watching SC employees talk they do seem genuine but I have always a hard time in discerning this in people. When I watching Sandi and Chris I do not have the same feeling though. They did show some game play near the end, running down corridor, fly a ship for only a few seconds.
Thanks for doing that.
I guess they didn't have much to talk about having just come back from their holidays.
Still, quarterly releases should be interesting - although I can't actually see them releasing anything significant every quarter. My guess is that they'll spend the next 6 months fixing what's already available in 3.0.
I can't see them fixing the frame rate issues any time soon since that seems to be a problem at the very core of the engine and probably can't be fixed without breaking, or at least rewriting, lots of other code.
Still, should be interesting to see if they can actually add some real gameplay this year (if the company lasts that long).
I probably don't have anything to say that hasn't already been said multiple times here and elsewhere.
I finally let 3.0 on to my machine and fiddled around with it for about 20 minutes. My system is merely a 6-core i7 running at 4GHz with 16GiB RAM and an NVIDIA GTX-970 (the only "weak" part of the rig). This machine happily tears through just about every game I've thrown at it.
...And boy is this thing choppy. Just walking around Olisar has the disk thrashing it's brains out, presumably as it's loading assets. I didn't even bother to fly my ship; I walked around Olisar, then EVAed from one half of Olisar to the other.
It seems they've spent all their time polishing the visuals -- everything does look rather more impressive. There was an interesting "sheen" on the glass of the space ships that wasn't there before. A nice detail, but utterly insignificant to game play.
You're started with 5000 aUAE. Available missions don't seem to offer more than 200 aUAE or so, which feels grind-tastic.
Previously, when you looked at something in one of the stores, a description of the item would appear. Now all you see is an invented brand name and a price. "Um, what is this, and what does it do?" are kind of important questions when looking at armor, space suits, and spaceship parts. Shopkeepers repeat the same lines of monologue far too often.
The clothing store is still a complete waste of time and space.
Saw a couple of NPCs stuck behind planters, chairs, and other random bits of geometry.
Certainly there has been an attempt to make things more "realistic." Your EVA suit now has a limited O2 supply. You can become exhausted by running everywhere, depleting your O2 supply more quickly. Definitely realistic. Also: No damned fun.
I actually became comfortable flying the Aurora ES around in the previous release. But I'm anxious they've changed all the flight controls and dynamics, so I'm afraid to take my ship out for a spin.
All in all, there's still no "there" there. It feels like a dying amusement park -- the only reason anyone is there is out of sheer habit.
I actually became comfortable flying the Aurora ES around in the previous release. But I'm anxious they've changed all the flight controls and dynamics, so I'm afraid to take my ship out for a spin.There was a time before they implemented insurance mechanics, when bugs randomly exploding your ship were without consequence. That was the right time to ask for a refund. Now you accepted the new ToS.
I just have the basic package, Mustang ship. I have not even been able to get the game to not crash, or not be a slide show. So I quit trying, hopefully their next update in 3 months will solve my issue.
There was a time before they implemented insurance mechanics, when bugs randomly exploding your ship were without consequence. That was the right time to ask for a refund. Now you accepted the new ToS.
Well that didn't last long. Finally got to play it this weekend and it is back to being slide show and crashing.
Why did they release this when they did? That was a bad move.
Devtalk Podcast Ep01 with Matt Sherman, Tech Designer on Star Citizen
https://soundcloud.com/user-321126684/devtalk-podcast-ep-01-matt-sherman (https://soundcloud.com/user-321126684/devtalk-podcast-ep-01-matt-sherman)
@14:50
Q:
You have a core idea and then as you develop it some more ideas come out, how do you handle tertiary ideas from possibly exanding that core gameplay? How do you control or gauge that as a technical designer?
Matt Sherman:
Ahh... I... in... in part, like... like there's... earlier checks and balances I had mentioned where it's having... knowing... whatever I'm thinking of, I'm gonna have to get it gut checked by damn well everyone. Um... and that sort of creates a good... ah... a good padding around those ideas where it's going to be shot to hell... you know it's gonna be shot to hell as you're submitting it, but that's also (mumble) you... you... make something where it's like shot at with criticisms or concerns or just basic gut checks from other people and you know you've started reinforcing and creating a design on something where fewer and fewer of those shots actually hit the mark, ah, where... you can be like, 'oh no!', you're... you're gonna say that, but... this is already in place to counterbalance that or... these structures are here to, ah... provide those certain gameplay elements, ah... whatever the scenario is for it
Q:
I feel like you don't just create a design doc. There's got to be some sort of inspiration that you receive. Do you have any notable source of inspiration?
Matt Sherman
Uh... for a lot of that stuff, eh... it would go back to just some of the different games that I've played or the styles of games that I've played... ahh... probably one of the biggest ones I'd still say is like System Shock, ah... and especially now because the studio that is sort of heading the idea that... um... had... they did an enhanced edition about a year ago... and when they released it it's like, 'oh you get it with both the classic edition with the enhanced controls in the enhanced edition', and... especially now it's an amazing case study in...
...look at just what a key bind shift really does for a game, ah... cos their classic controls from 1994 were before WASD controls were a thing and it really showed like the game was very very cumbersome, it was still a very incredible game... like oh, here's a 6dof game, ah, the same year Doom II came out, um... it's got jumping, leaning, crouching, ducking through air vents, just homicidal AI... ah... amazing first person adventure elements to it at the... it... it's one of those things like... at the time... the control was fine enough for what it was, here's this really cool experience, you know the Ultima Underworld games were its predecessors aaaand... it's like, ok, I understand what they're doing and what the systems are, then when you fast forward 20 years it's like, 'wow, this is clunky, this is cumbersome, how was I faster as a kid and not minding this stuff', um... and that's why they're enhanced edition is like, 'oh hey! You know those modern control sensibilities we've picked up over the years? We've applied those to what the actual commands and actions are for those games', so there's a brand new keymap and one or two QoL things with like mouselook, um, and suddenly you know, this game can play as well as... ah... System Shock II, the Deus Ex games, all that kinda stuff, it still shows its age a little bit but... it... immediately became insanely playable.
@44:40
Q:
As a game dev and as an avid gamer, what is your take or your thoughts on the state of the game industry today?
Matt Sherman
Yeah. Um... it's definitely interesting because... it's like at that cusp of a lot of potential.... and you don't know how things are going to get realised and... if you'd also like start considering like the external socio-policital climates like, 'Ok! What... what can and can't we make still... what... you know... is there going to be... are there any challenges you know, into the future even, ah, what... known challenges or known things, it's like, ok, people haven't tried progressing THIS type of a gameplay model or THIS genre or whatever... um... sort of finding THOSE things and I think there's... there's enough of the... the industry still sort of doing THAT cos... even like a lot of the, you know, triple A games that will get lambasted for being, ah... sequel heavy or whatever the hell people wanna say... um... there's still that... that notion where... they're always pulling pieces of multiple different genres and they're still also trying to blend stuff together... CREATE... something different so it... they don't... they aren't always trying to make exactly the same... there is always that... that attempted something a little bit different, another layer of edition ah... kinda just one new major gameplay feature...
And I still think some of that gets lost because people don't always think back to just how far we had to go, ah, to get to that point where it's like, 'yes we've got these giant, GIANT ASS SANDBOXES right now, have you ever played ADVANCED DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS ON THE INTELLIVISION? Because you'll break your fucking skull in half trying to play through that if what you're acclimated to is...
There is that thing were you have to really step back all the way and see it's like... this is where we've really come from and how far we've gone and how big of incremental jumps we've made each step along that way
Q:
How many land claim licenses will fit on a planet or moon?
Dave Haddock:
Uhm... that is a... very good question, uh... we have... when we were actually doing the um... sort of, the... the BUILD to the... um... the... the ANNIVERSARY SALE like that... there's a lot of conversations about like these LAND CLAIMS and stuff like that, and I... I remember, um... in one of the conversations talking with... with TONY, uh... that... apparently, based off of every single Star Citizen... uh... like... getting one of the big ESTATE pieces... uh, if every single one of them got one they still wouldn't be able to fill up a single planet.
1.9 million Star Citizens wouldn't be able to fill a single planet. That's the calculation.
Q:
What is modularity?
Matt Sherman:
So... yeah, like you said it definitely does have multiple interpretations, ah, the... the core is gonna come down to PLAYER FACING MODULARITY, that's gonna be the moment to moment choices anyone gets to make with... how is their ship kitted out, what are their components, weapons, all that good stuff, but then at the same time we've also got DEVELOPER FACING MODULARITY and that's a lot of the stuff for how are we actually going to be able to CREATE and ITERATE all of this CONTENT that's gonna populate the world of STAR CITIZEN, um... so... right now the biggest thing for PLAYER FACING MODULARITY is... is... really gonna be your COMPONENT OPTIONS, ah, it's definitely something we're looking to keep FLESHING OUT, I mean we've got, ah, you know... the ALTERNATE ROOM OPTIONS for the RETALIATOR, ah, looking at a number of different things for various ships but a lot of it does become more CASE BY CASE and... and... how... how... BIG of a WING can we get for... you know I know we saw modules planned for the CATERPILLAR cos that's its nice big segmented rooms...
BUT at the same time that MODULARITY doesn't mean it's just gonna be just LEGO, you know we're not just gonna be I'M JUST GONNA PICK THIS DESK UP AND MOVE IT AT A HALF METER OVER TO THE SIDE
So there's still gonna be some... some STRUCTURE, form to it, ah, ahm...
And... and we also have been recently showing off a lot more of the DEVELOPER SIDED MODULARITY, just a month or so ago when you (Lando) did your... the... ah.. urr... OUTPOST HAPPY HOUR with the UK team, that's a great example of DEVELOPER FACING MODULARITY because it's HEY SET UP THESE WALL PREFAB, set up these NODE PREFABS for, 'OK, this is these BED SET APPS for THIS manufacturer THIS style, ah... ah... the... PLANET DEMO that we showed, ah... ah... you know like the planet generation demo, ah... um... the building out of like the IDRIS and the JAVELIN videos that are about a month or so back where it's uh... hey, here's these AEGIS...GIANT... SHIP HALLWAY CHUNKS, so that's a lot of that DEVELOPER FACING MODULARITY where it's... it's how we're able to build a giant, you know, multi star system GAME, ah, without KILLING OURSELVES
Q:
The inner thought system and player interaction in general, is that it? Are we done?
Calix Reneau:
Yeah, as usual, as usual we're finished from the gate... no, that's, ah... so much of... of this is coming together still, um... we're... we're ITERATING ON IT and doing all kinds of things and doing a whole other ASPECT to it, basically, ah, the interaction system is really good for finding things in the world to click on and... and... interacting with them in bespoke ways, just... go out there and see what you get, um...
But it's not so great at things that don't really have a, you know, a logical place out in the world like, where would you click exactly to EXIT SEATS or to HOLSTER YOUR WEAPON or to do your EMOTE, so, ah, we have a little personal THOUGHT RADIAL WHEEL that comes up and gives you access to all that, you know I'm actually working on that now
Todd Papy:
Steve's on the beach drinking BEERS, ah, RELAXING, I'm... I'm in the office working, so...
Yeah it's basically I was here for a couple of days, they put me at Steve Bender's desk, I don't know why, it needs to be DOUSED and basically SANITIZED
Q:
I don't suppose you want to answer a question about dance emotes do you?
Todd Papy:
No
Q:
Tell us about 3.1, what are we looking at for 3.1?
Todd Papy:
Well... I think... haha... well, for us... uhm... we saw 3.0 and... and... as Erin stated and... and, um... there... basically we stated in development letter, that... you know, in order for us to move over to this, ah, DATE DRIVEN RELEASE, you know we needed to get 3.0 out the door.
But 3.0 going out the door there was a lot of stuff that we felt, um... WASN'T UP TO SNUFF and... and we needed to get optimisations better... ah... uhm... just because the overall frame rate, ah... then there were other, ah... I think USABILITY, ah, aspects that we felt we needed to improve... uhm... and even just on... player's understanding of what they can do and what they can't do, and... uhm... then even if you think about like the... the... ITEM 2.0 COMBAT VISOR SCREENS and those... those... those types of things were we worked really hard on that was... just... they didn't get to... the quality level that we all wanted them to get to, ah, so...
It's working towards and finalising a lot of the issues that we felt were, uhm.... should have been part of 3.0 but just, you know, kind of... kept on limping on and... the... the guys were working very hard... it just didn't come to be
Q:
The 300i, where is it, where's our rework? What's happening, when?
Eric Kieron Davies:
When. It's the production part of me that's why you get to ask the 'when' question, right? A lot of whens, ok... ah... ahm... THREE HUNDRED EYE! It's a GREAT question, ah, the REWORK is... I believe the last of our original FIVE PLEDGE SHIPS and from what I understand it's one of the most owned ships... so there's a few people interested in what's going on with the 300i, fair enough...
So, the 300i... I'm going to have SO much information for you, ah... is DEFINITELY ON OUR RADAR, it's definitely one that we wanna REWORK, it is on the AGENDA to work on as you'd expect, I can't give you more information of what the date is, I know you're asking for it, we're looking at 2018, we're looking at a lot of what the long term is for a lot of the SHIPS, being one of the last reworked ships we're DEFINITELY SUPER INTERESTED in actually getting that done and out from under us and getting it into everybody's hands so we can keep moving on with the NEW SHIPS that are coming up, I can't give you any more than that but it's DEFINITELY ON OUR RADAR...
Wow the last two answers of the transcript are really painful to read.1- Because CRoberts is more concerned with the window dressing and appearances, whereas any dev worth their salt would concern themselves with building a solid foundation first.
'We just needed to get shit out and we knew it was shit' - really shows how the perception of kickstarted games having no pressure is off.
And another ship rework - in my uneducated (in terms of game development) mind this raises 2 thoughts.
1) Why rework a ship, when the basic systems to differentiate ship types are seemingly far from finished?
2) How many artists are currently really working on ships for this space-fighter simulation? So far most ships seem to be stuck in the pipeline, while they had 60 months for their 78 ships so far.
But then again - uneducated mind ... maybe it's all normal.
So if 1.9 million of the largest land claims fit on a single planet (which, incidentally, would represent $190 million of revenue, or more than CIG's entire claimed funding total to date):
1.9 million land claims at 64 km^2 (8 km x 8 km) comes out to at least a 3110 km planetary radius, assuming no packing losses from trying to fit plots onto a sphere -- maybe they can be arbitrarily shaped so that they'll all fit in, as long as they have the stated total area. I guess I am also assuming that land claims are not instanced, so that it is impossible to have multiple claims in the same physical location.
For comparison, Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/7kxnnl/anyone_know_how_big_30s_largest_moon_is_compared/dri1qj4/) says the following about current moon sizes in 3.0:QuoteIn game (PTU 3.0). Delamar has a 75km radius, Daymar has radius of 295km, Cellin has a radius of 260km and Yella has a radius of 313km. Diameter = 2r, Surface area = 4(PI)r2. You can verify this using the altitude gauge and the moons map marker at the center of the moon. These compared to Jupiters moons (Io-Daymar, Ganymede-Cellin, Europa-Yella) and (Asteroid Ceres-Delamar) are between 1/10th to 1/5th smaller in radius.
So CIG are promising planets that are 10-40 times the diameter of the current moons, or 100-1600 times the surface area. And here I thought the current moons already looked barren...
1- Because CRoberts is more concerned with the window dressing and appearances, whereas any dev worth their salt would concern themselves with building a solid foundation first.
2- Probably because CRoberts wants constant re-writes and/or re-designs, so ultimately nothing of substance ever gets done.
So basically, v3.X is adding the shit into the techdemo they promised would be in v3.0. So expect that to be done probably sometime around 2020 or thereabouts.
If CiG lives long enough, that is.
X4 might wipe the floor with Mini-PU this year. Egosoft is known for questionable software quality on release day, but they are quicker than CIG in fixing it up.
Did you know that CIG completely removed Area 18 from Pre-Alpha 3.0?
Latest ATV is out and it's a tour of the JPEG factory - literally.
The section on how ships are thought up is especially good around the 20 minute mark.
TLDR; Chris just gets ideas from Star Wars or WW2.
This video is crazy, all these people involved on ships and you don't even have a functioning game.
All these people employed just for ships and they still do not function. They have so many core issues,
persistence, economy, netcode, gazillion missions to create. F42 is seeing what its like to live in a dystopia
CR development society can't be easy.
I remember croberts claiming years ago that for every dollar paid to him would be worth a multiple of that dollar (I don't remember the exact multiple he used but it was like 4x or higher) due to being able to avoid publisher overheads. This means that with the funding total now at $177,000,000 croberts is effectively saying a top studio with a publisher would not be able to create what they have without at least $708,000,000 and upwards of 6 years development time.
I think any publisher after seeing a bill for nearly three-quarters of a billion dollars, dwindling player numbers and no end in sight would have put this sick puppy to sleep a long time ago.
Latest ATV is out and it's a tour of the JPEG factory - literally.
The section on how ships are thought up is especially good around the 20 minute mark.
TLDR; Chris just gets ideas from Star Wars or WW2.
LOL!!
https://gfycat.com/AlarmedTestyAfricanjacana
Yes, any day now (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/7s4wb4/the_silence_is_deafening_cig/) :dance:
I really do not understand the mindset of SC Supporters at all, the lawsuit has exposed Chris out right lying. With 7 years in dev and the basics still do not work. They keep saying its alpha and they tell people to move along if all their ships are broken. And of course this thread is put under controversial if that alone is not a red flag for sc supports then they will probally get in a line and follow CR off a cliff.
I don't even understand how you could possibly code the game so badly that assets consistently were only partially created.
But assume, arguendo, that you did code the game that badly, and every piece that had a set of "thought UI" tags/attribute/overrides/functionality failed to be created in an otherwise newly created ship (of multiple ship classes). In that case how could it be anything but a single bug localized in one location that could be easily found and fixed in one day?
Road Map is up, in reddit they already making excuses for it or giving it a pass.Yes, those Shilizens are amazing :D
Here's something that caught my eye, its not all the fidelity but what the name of the program they are using in top right.
I don't see anything. What time stamp?
Here's something that caught my eye, its not all the fidelity but what the name of the program they are using in top right.
Program name is at the 8 second mark.
Is it too much trouble to tell us?
Give me a second, long name take a screen of it and upload. Really wanting anyone with dev to give take on the name and the file extension to see what they thought. Curious if this in anyway infers they have completely moved to ly?
I'm not sure what you're getting at. CIG say they're using Lumberyard. That will be the modified CryEngine editor now named Lumberyard. The .cry file extension will be inherited from the original Cryengine code (as are directories named CryEngine etc).
Give me a second, long name take a screen of it and upload. Really wanting anyone with dev to give take on the name and the file extension to see what they thought. Curious if this in anyway infers they have completely moved to ly?
(https://s26.postimg.org/fj6fdnjy1/build_information_lumbaryard.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Let's see, so at the end of Q1 2018 they're going to...
Have Customizable Characters (100 tasks)
Polish Helmets (13 tasks)
"Improve" Planetary Generation Tech (1 task)
"Improve" the Flight Control System (1 task)
"Improve" the Personal Manager (1 task)
Balance Weapons (2 tasks)
Overhaul Ship Damage (4 tasks)
Convert Ship AI to Subsumption (62 tasks)
Implement Aegis Reclaimer (56 tasks)
Implement Anvil Terrapin (39 tasks)
Implement MISC Razor (39 tasks)
Implement Tumbril Cyclone (38 tasks)
Implement Ship Weapon: Preacher Distortion Shotgun (29 tasks)
Implement Personal Weapon: Gemini R97 Shotgun (29 tasks)
Improve Netcode (10 tasks)
Optimize Performance (36 tasks)
Let's be clear about this. They've put more thought into laying out how to polish the fucking helmets than they have for improving netcode. It takes the same number of tasks to implement a glorified off-road golf cart than it does to implement a multi-crew ships. They have 100 tasks to implement customization of characters but only 3 tasks combined to improve planetary generation, improve the flight system (their core gameplay element), and improve the user interface.
At this point anyone who reads that and doesn't immediate register that it's a giant pile of steaming bullshit deserves to be fucking scammed.
The new schedule as well as the latest whale backer bribery are amazing. Going to write a short article later today or tomorrow from the notes I have gathered.
Beer4TheBeerGod over on SA (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3800238&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=3591#post480675672)
The LY editor is still backwards compatible.
They can easily keep to the schedule by delivering a bare bones, super simple implementation of each feature. Eg. for mining: procedurally assign asteroids a mineral content (to save storing a mineral worth for EVERY asteroid), use a scanner to determine the content, then have a mining laser animation to transfer the mineral worth to the ship, at the end keep a list of depleted asteroids on the client / server. Simple to implement, not a lot of fun, but at least once it's in the game they can iterate on it. But this is Chris Roberts and CIG, they NEVER choose the easy option, and it will never get into the game this side of 2019.
Interesting thread, several 3.0 videos on youtube show people losing their ships to theft, people wait around just to steal them.
I like Elite/H as I only play the offline mode and I hate griefing in games. So far with what little there is do to you can
find many videos of people doing all and anything they can to grief other players. I was thinking that this game could
be come one of the biggest grief games similar to ARK: Survival Evolved. I can see players swarming f8's for fun and any
other outrageously overpriced ship they can sell.
I've been curious to see what or any action they will take:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/50259/thread/insurance-and-cheating-the-system/916092
I love scamming people in MMOs - all in game stuff.
One mans griefing is another mans career choice and where better to learn the hard lesons than in a game and not the real world eh .... :smuggo:
They have no chance of policing Star Citizen from the Real Money Trade business to simple - aggressive takeover of assets.
I don't think you can programme a system to stop me getting Little Billy to lend me his ship or stop him from falling for a ruse - Croberts isn't the only person who can get stuff out of people with a bit of flannel...
I limit my activities to ingame and RMT not trying to get people to give out account details or other out of game stuff, but if it is in game it is fair game to me - even if all encompassing EULAS and TOS try to make "scamming" etc rules of the game.
I can imagine todays snowflakes (not including PVE players!) are more fragile than those of a decade or so ago so the bleating to CIG would be constant. Another costly overhead for them to pay for...
What I was watching was which I will try to find is guy requested his ship and before he got to it it was stolen, seen two of these kinds of videos. To me that is a bug as no one should be able to take the ship before you can get to the landing pad.
Beer4TheBeerGod has updated a list of crucial features CIG have walked back. The most recent being the issue with stolen ships.
Meanwhile, over at the hug box, they're having a collective meltdown over the ship stealing issue (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/7tg30u/psa_stealing_ships_might_no_longer_be_planned/)
Instead we have Chris Roberts putting his son's turtles into the game.
Somebody needs to create Fallout 4 mod that in 2290+ year SC is still in development and Pre-Alfa.
And you can join 1 of 3 fractions:
1) Shilizens
2) Goons
3) Crytek (Skedden)
..and all main characters are still alive as ghouls ;)
and outcome depends totally on your actions...
P.S. Buy an Idris jpg for 10 000 bottlecaps ;)
They're continuing to walk back design promises. The latest.
http://www.pcgamer.com/if-you-steal-a-ship-in-star-citizen-it-will-disappear-when-you-log-out-of-the-game/
I think its just a start, they starting to figure that:
1) People just can not have a nice things on Internet - people will exploit all that they can...
2) Actual development just can't compete with player dreams...
If this game goes that far - I am very interested how they try to solve all problems like balancing profits from different professions (trade, combat, mining etc) that how they fight exploiters, cheaters, greifers etc.
My guess is that it would be more of the same, watered-down concepts; probably all professions accessible through a missions UI which would be the same few missions constantly recycled - half of them buggy and broken. Trading will be just some pre-determined prices for trade goods that refresh occasionally, nothing dynamically driven - certainly no player driven economy. Mining will be a case of destroying prefabricated asteroids that again will be buggy and the times they do work just dropping the same stale minerals in pre-determined amounts. Combat will be the most boring of all imo which will involve boring 10 minute-long engagements which will consist of flying at the target, unloading a few volleys, then turning the ship around and repeating until the enemy ship explodes.
They've already shown with their hilarious "response" to the piracy question that they could give a rats ass about encouraging emergent gameplay or providing something fun - shitizens are there for one reason only and that's to keep on buying virtual items.
The problem seems to be that they're not that far in concept to actually talk what gameplay they think will emerge and how they'd lead to wanted gameplay. And so far i don't see them actually putting any realt thought in how to get strangers to actually cooperate - so that might because i'm not following every dream they utter.
The problem with Chris is that when anybody asks if a gameplay feature will be in the game: he says yes. They want all the gameplay, and to make it as complex as possible. At the same time all the actual gameplay development has been largely ignored thus far in favour of the graphical fidelity of the game (eg prioritising "Helmet polish" over anything which resembles a game mechanic). CIG have led the backers into believing whatever they want. Just read reddit a bit and you'll find that they all have their own idea about how the game will actually work and what they want to do in it. Very little of what has been promised will be implemented, none of it will work well, and, even if it does, none of it will be much fun.
Yeah that's true.
THAT WAS ALL LEFT BEHIND AND BASICALLY THESE more politically oriented you know population gradually moved in and basically what you wound up with is a populous that tends to be a little bit more you know ahhhh radical in there overall you know political beliefs versus the mainstream
I didn't know any of this stuff was in the game! Holy cow, I'm ready to buy in to SC at last! I'm a big political junkie and the idea of having great political conversations with NPCs - maybe escalating, you know, into something more exciting, arguments, like, you know, fist fights or even gunplay! - that's really big for me! Maybe a clan vs clan thing where some clans are more libertarian and others more communist and others are like, well, anarchists obviously - this is cool! BDSSE!!!!!! :dance:
It is on the schedule for 3.3 or, end of year 3.4? I mean he said it was real close! They're just polishing it now!
3.0.1 patch was released to Evocati. The patch notes are hilarious.
It is on the schedule for 3.3 or, end of year 3.4? I mean he said it was real close! They're just polishing it now!
Evos can feel spacial again and try to test some broken mess again...
To me looks like a lot of hotfixies, some of them looks like wild guesses to try to fix bugs...and nothing more...
Yeah that's true.
Oh, and it's about 36GB. So much for the delta patcher :vince:Are you kidding?
Oh, and it's about 36GB. So much for the delta patcher :vince: :lol:
:lol: 36gb for the claimed fixes? :lol:
CIG have out and out lied to Backers.
They keep telling the world that things are near completion, just about to be released and then not delivering for years..
All the while selling them stuff on the back of those lies.
It has gone way beyond a few people saying things they shouldn't have and management having to walk back on those statements.
Yet another failure to manage this game properly.
It was absolutely foreseeable (by an experienced qualified marketing professional for example) that you cant have staff (of any level) going on company produced video, forums etc saying X or Y features are going into the game by x date and then failing to deliver those whilst taking customers money on the reasonable expectation that they are being told the truth.
They are incredibly unprofessional and breaking the law.
Are you kidding?
On that same note, something that keeps getting me is this recurring recommendation to delete your USER folder. What's that all about? If their delta patcher is functioning (lol) correctly and updating the game properly each patch, why would you need to do this?
I can't recall any other game I've played where you've had to manually delete folders before installing updates. At the very least, if it's strongly recommended why wouldn't you just make that one of the steps in the patcher? It would take like 10 minutes to upgrade the patcher to delete that folder itself.
His lips are moving, which means he's lying.
He's lying. His lips are moving. How can someone describe a feature in 3.0 that isn't even **implemented** yet? They're basically going to make shit up this Friday, in an attempt to placate a bunch of fucking lunatics into thinking that in the long term, all their dreams will be realized.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/224358368?t=00h36m46s
Interesting thread, several 3.0 videos on youtube show people losing their ships to theft, people wait around just to steal them.
I like Elite/H as I only play the offline mode and I hate griefing in games. So far with what little there is do to you can
find many videos of people doing all and anything they can to grief other players. I was thinking that this game could
be come one of the biggest grief games similar to ARK: Survival Evolved. I can see players swarming f8's for fun and any
other outrageously overpriced ship they can sell.
Side note here's a backer tired of the polish with no real updates game mechanics.
You expected enjoyable multiplayer out of the most toxic community in video game history?
I don't think they have any clue on how to implement game mechanics, many posted stating they were not even going to login due to the griefing. I think griefing/flight mechanics are two areas to really kick the diehards up in arms and put pressure on cig to produce. We know they cannot deliver but they still do, and I'm hoping for some great backlash at some point.
Another thread was posted where guy lost 1.3 mill uec due to ship ramming at the pad lol. Bunch posted in the same spectrum thread complaining about the same thing. Crazy they can not fix some simple turrets on the stations to alleviate the problem. I don't think they have any clue on how to implement game mechanics, many posted stating they were not even going to login due to the griefing. I think griefing/flight mechanics are two areas to really kick the diehards up in arms and put pressure on cig to produce. We know they cannot deliver but they still do, and I'm hoping for some great backlash at some point.
His lips are moving, which means he's lying.
He's lying. His lips are moving. How can someone describe a feature in 3.0 that isn't even **implemented** yet? They're basically going to make shit up this Friday, in an attempt to placate a bunch of fucking lunatics into thinking that in the long term, all their dreams will be realized.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/224358368?t=00h36m46s
Damage control continues..
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/pirates-you-can-t-have-8-trillion-ship-armadas-rol/931145
New one concerning ongoing collisions issues: If you hit npc he goes through the floor.
:lol: Response: Nooooo don't hit the guy! That apparently breaks all the NPCs on that realm
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/4/thread/if-you-get-fed-up-with-that-guy-who-refuses-to-tak.
"Lorville is going to be great. CIG's use of statues really adds to the atmosphere."That's just the first 4 comments at the top of the reddit so far.
"I'm just worrying more and more about how they are going to get enough assets up to fill the verse at this rate."
"Landing zones and armor/clothing. Hopefully they can get some faster pipelines going on those after these first few."
"Hopefully. I know the combination of procedural tech and the expanding art assets will help. "
Chris chimes in on the piracy shit-storm FF to 40:15 :smugjones:
Chris chimes in on the piracy shit-storm FF to 40:15 :smugjones:
With all the tech being thrown around in this video are they making sense? Have they
hit the eureka moment or are they still rushing to the OMG moment? If Derek
or anyone could answer on the culling, AI, shader/occlusion rework if they are
making any progress? I'm not great at judging character and when Brian is talking
it seems he believes that everything is going great, I constantly question are they
all it on it or do the majority believe the are making great progress?
With all the tech being thrown around in this video are they making sense? Have they
hit the eureka moment or are they still rushing to the OMG moment? If Derek
or anyone could answer on the culling, AI, shader/occlusion rework if they are
making any progress? I'm not great at judging character and when Brian is talking
it seems he believes that everything is going great, I constantly question are they
all it on it or do the majority believe the are making great progress?
Well, the latest ATV (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhMQH25mEMw&feature=push-u-sub&attr_tag=V1rAmAhuJMIoj5iG-6) is up - and boy does Brian Chambers sound bored. So this was basically 40 minutes about art work and cinematics (with 5 minutes at the beginning talking about AI refractoring)... so not actually any discussion about gameplay (or showing actual gameplay). Which, for any other game would be a criticism, but for Star Citizen they're just playing to the fans:
That's just the first 4 comments at the top of the reddit so far.
These guys deserve to get a game where the only gameplay involves walking around taking pictures of the high visual fidelity.
LOL!! Star Citizen fans are so adorable. They reported my account for Tweeting a security related issue.
LOL!!!
This certificated is installed with Star Citizen. It has nothing to do with the game - at all.
(https://s18.postimg.org/oofe314kp/scca.png)
It's registered to: https://www.whois.com/whois/starcitizen.com
Which leads to:
https://www.facebook.com/StarCitizen-963887816977205/
https://www.facebook.com/people/StarCitizen-Corp/100009242816721
Apparently this cert is used internally for their corp intranet. But somehow it ended up in the game's distribution files; specifically the installer package.
Regardless, they have a domain they do NOT own, in a corp intranet ROOT cert.
Ponder the implications.
Barely a week ago when the new website was unveiled, backers noticed (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/7t5uxm/i_was_having_issues_with_the_rsi_site_when_i/) that their password and login credentials were transmitted in PLAINTEXT in the browser URL.
... they released 3.0.1 patch days ago without fixing the cert issue.
Chris Roberts:
So we sort of show the very HIGH LEVEL, ah, you know, what we would call an EPIC, ah, or in some cases sort of a SAGA which is overwhelming... over... quite a few EPICS... I know they... always thought of it... EPICS, SAGAS, STORIES... TASKS!
Just putting this here for completeness. There is still no public schedule for SQ42, despite croberts saying it would be made available in Dec 2017.
There is NO WAY that these foolish backers havent figured out that every word coming out of his mouth after "Chris Roberts" is complete and utter bullshit. It's like a badly written and (uncharacteristically) unfunny Monty Python scetch that goes on way too long.
Just putting this here for completeness. There is still no public schedule for SQ42, despite croberts saying it would be made available in Dec 2017.
Chris Roberts:
…
We're still discussing, ah, um, kind of a COLUMN FORMAT for it, ah... but it will, again, SCRUB LIVE from all the... the TASKS that we have, ah, and EPICS and SAGAS that we have entered, ahm, for finishing out Squadron 42
At least some companies know how to deliver on promises!
Host:
Ok, now we get to the good stuff. Gremlich writes in and says,
Hmmm... this is close to yellow card. I'm not gonna throw the yellow card at this because he uses really GOOD WORDS. Those are some good words there but I do wanna say that, ah... I'm... when we first contacted him that whole 1990s flame war thing was foremost in my mind, but... he's OLDER, maybe a little WISER now, and again I've had reasonable adult level conversations with him on multiple occasions, so I DO think he has things to offer, for good or for bad he has MADE A LIVING IN THE GAMES INDUSTRY for 30 years.
Maybe his titles aren't the best and maybe you don't want to play them and I can't say that I've played any of them with the exception of 3000AD, which broke constantly and made me swear at him in the 1990s - like many other people... but again, he's been in the trenches and he's been doing this stuff and he has in my view improved his credibility over the 2 years or so that he's been commenting publically on this issue.
Host:
You know I will say that I think Mister DS has calmed down a little bit I think from his early hay-day of Star Citizen hatred, most of his stuff is mostly about... if you follow him on Twitter now, it's mostly about the case coverage and stuff like that. And while I certainly don't share some of his opinion on the technical side, I'm not a game developer myself but I do have a technical background that overlaps with this field... you know, I understand where he's coming from, and while I don't agree with him I understand why he's doing it to some degree and I don't think this is as malicious as some people think.
But then again, at the same time, you know... for whatever reason he seems to be literate in interviews and incendiary in his online presence. I guess that's the best way to put it.
So, like... I don't agree with him in any way, shape or form on MANY of his views, but I don't think he is a... I don't think he's an idiot.
Host:
And if Guard Frequency and Derek Smart can have a conversation about stuff, the rest of the world should be able to have a conversation that we disagree on.
LOL! That tool, TheRealGremlich (https://guardfrequency.com/200), who used to have a Twitter profile of me with a giant dildo until Twitter made him remove it, wrote a letter to the GF guys.
FF to 1:04:29
https://guardfrequency.com/200
Transcript courtesy of SomethingJones
What is his technical background such that he thinks it trumps yours ?
Something.. interesting.. happened the other week.
I received a marketing email from CIG notifying me about the opportunity to check out Star Citizen by purchasing some fake space ships or whatever.
I did not think much of it at the time and just hit 'spam' to get rid of it and any future unsolicited emails.
The thing is though, I am not, never have been, nor have any intention of being abackercustomer of CIG. I had seen the kickstarter back in 2014 and since they already had enough money to make the game, decided to wait until it is released to check out reviews first. I may or may not have given my email to be updated when that happens, I honestly do not remember.
Never the less, CIG seem to be sendingmarketing emailsspam to non-backers urging them to buy in to their fire sale. So much for not needing any more money.
Yeah, they started doing that back in Dec. It appears as if they bought a mailing list and now spamming people looking for new customers.
Thing is that anybody who is remotely interested in the game, has already heard of it, and/or bought in. With all the bad PR, and the horrible mess that the project is in, they're not going to be able to increase their install base to any reasonable degree.
I guess it really is true. It's way easier to just invent jpeg ships that have imaginary capabilities and sell them for ridiculous sums instead of actually putting stuff in the game.
I guess it really is true. It's way easier to just invent jpeg ships that have imaginary capabilities and sell them for ridiculous sums instead of actually putting stuff in the game.
Yes. That's pretty much it. NONE of the gameplay mentioned for this ship exists. And there is NO indication that they EVER will.
Those backers over there are having great fun, and we're over here missing the point.
Actually, I think we're having fun here because we understand that point.
The idiots on Reddit are under the impression that all their theories will be in the game one day.
Ho Lee Crap!! I don't even...
Where we're going, we don't need no stinkin' design docs (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/devs-misunderstanding/957638)
6 yrs later; they still have no frigging clue.
This posted over at reddit that they are still increasing employee count.
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/7y5ou2/star_citizen_and_squadron_42_staff_grows_to_475/
https://www.dualshockers.com/star-citizen-squadron-42-staff-475-employees/
It's nonsense. We're actually discussing this right now on SA.
https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3800238&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=3770#post481388819
Thank you for the link they seem to believe its all lies as well. My thoughts are why would they risk lying on something that might could be verified?
LOL!! You are aware that they are used to be lied to, right?
Calling All Devs - Persistence andScammingScanning
4:30 - Remember all that stuff chris said? We can backpeddle that anytime we want because making games is hard https://youtu.be/BIJtzjUsf08?t=238 (https://youtu.be/BIJtzjUsf08?t=238)
4:50 - 'no plans to implement multiple character slots in 2018' https://youtu.be/BIJtzjUsf08?t=292 (https://youtu.be/BIJtzjUsf08?t=292)
8:00 - I can't tell you when mining or salvage is coming but its in game right now just disabled. https://youtu.be/BIJtzjUsf08?t=509 (https://youtu.be/BIJtzjUsf08?t=509)
9:50 - Any news at all about the Banu Merchant? Uhh bad news guys its not being worked on at all atm. We need more RESOURCES https://youtu.be/BIJtzjUsf08?t=587 (https://youtu.be/BIJtzjUsf08?t=587)
12:20 - "I'm a shill, I'm a shill" https://youtu.be/BIJtzjUsf08?t=736 (https://youtu.be/BIJtzjUsf08?t=736)
15:50 - Soon we'll have a form for getting a CIG employee on your podcast https://youtu.be/BIJtzjUsf08?t=948 (https://youtu.be/BIJtzjUsf08?t=948)
Seriously?? That's probably the most amateurish first-pass implementation they could've come up with in terms of network scalability. There are so many disadvantages and I can in no way see them bridging this up to their "final" end-game implementation without starting from scratch... Just another example of them trying to keep appearances with the masses.
Let me take a step back and see if I got this right. They are doing a first-pass just now...?! Weren't they working on their mega-sharding system all this time? So at first it seems there is supposed to be one server per geographical region (US, EU, etc) that handles all the people in the specific game region (whatever dumb names CRobblers came up for their shithole procgen crapfests)? But what happens when they launch this crap and everyone wakes up in their wankpods? This game might as well go into the Guiness records for negative FPS counters... That's where the multiple instances of Stanton come into play. Essentially they're trying the water for the instanced approach after finally realizing it's impossimble for them to develop whatever they dreamt up in their pipe dreams. Then why bother with sub-regions of a solar system... unless that's the only way to mitigate the piss poor performance the game has right now?
Fuck this game and anyone that buys into this kind of bullshit as some proof that the game is being properly developed by an experienced team.
Not sure things are as dire as you think. Server meshing is on the schedule for Q4 this year!. That's only 10 months out ...
[Damn, just snorted Diet Coke out my nose, just rereading that after typing it. It stings!]
A: We've never said that it would. In addition to which, a distributed OS like SpatialOS doesn't solve that problem. Whether we used SpatialOS or our own spatial partitioning system it's important to understand the differences between horizontal and vertical scale-out.
Horizontal scale-out is the ability to support a bigger world. With a bigger world you can also support more players. So long as they're spread out. As soon as players start to cluster in one location you're talking about vertical scale-out, which is a bigger problem to solve as you're fighting physics.
As players gather in the world, the load on the individual servers as well as your clients at home increases. We can procedurally sub-divide the server around that location in order to lessen the load, but at some point, there's so many processes running on individual servers that the network traffic and latency actually starts causing the simulation to perform more poorly. That's why it's easier to get 100,000 players in a single world than 1,000 players in a single neighborhood.
And - even if we could subdivide the servers enough to solve the back-end problem - could your PC process the client-side load of updating and rendering 1,000 players on-screen?
In the end, there's a lot of work to do to optimize CoE, but the hardest optimization problems aren't solved through horizontal scale-out or even sub-dividing the world into smaller and smaller chunks. It's solved through understanding of the game mechanics and experience optimizing client engine code like UE4 - something we have experience with.
LOL!! Someone made a pretty version. Meanwhile, it's now Feb 20th and 3.1 which is supposed to be out by 03/31, has 19 tasks pending, with only 1 completed.
I'm sure there are plenty of people happy to have them spend all that time polishing their helmet. Hell, watching some of them on YouTube, I'm pretty sure the SC community has quite a few professional helmet polishers who spend hours a day honing their craft, and they are quite clear, contrary to "professionals" like those quoted here, who couldn't lift a feather to their skills, that polishing one's helmet (or hood) is a time-consuming and iterative process.
Perhaps they could add helmet polishing as a mini game that players can do in their sleep pods?
My SC dev forecast for year 2018:
History will repeat itself in 2018...in reality SC will have yearly content patch like in 2017..
So in summer 3.1 will be released, that will contain minor content additions some fixed bugs and even more new bugs..
in xMas holiday 3.2 will be released, that will have more content and even more new bugs...
btw SQ42 promised roadmap for 2018 is still MIA...so no progress for SQ42 in 2018?!
Funding in 2017 was on small decline so in 2018 it should take bigger hit...
I have to say, they've really pushed themselves into a corner with all these ship sales. I would have to imagine that literally anything else is more important than further work on Ships/Vehicles and Weapons/Items but they keep selling the damned things.
So the “magic” of Star Citizen’s multiplayer design is how we combine a persistent universe with a more traditional (and easier to implement) temporary multiplayer “battle” instance.
The way it works is that the persistent universe server, which we’re calling the Galaxy Server, keeps track of all players’ assets, group relationships and locations inside the Star Citizen universe. As the Galaxy server isn’t handling any realtime action it can handle our complete player base, which right now would be about 45,000 players, but is designed to be able to scale to millions if need be. The other key thing the Galaxy Server does is dynamically place players based on their location, skill level, alignment and player versus player (PvP) preference into battle instances. Think of a “battle” instance like a Battlefield 3 multiplayer session or a World of Tanks Battle with the key difference that the selection of players is done transparently and is “in fiction”.
Crytek could have made it with 2 million Euros.
It's really amazing - when he says "As the Galaxy server isn’t handling any realtime action..." he's describing peer-to-peer. Like you've said that ED was built to do in the first place.
So here he is six years ago describing how their "Galaxy Server" is being built (he's speaking in present tense) but we know that from the very first release to now that isn't what they were building at all. Otherwise why would they have been blathering for years about network culling and all the rest of the networking B.S.? (And promising networking improvements in 2.0, 3.0, 3.n ...)
And it isn't even like it's in some video you have to dig up by watching hours and hours of old vids. It's right there in a text on his site!
I've been watching this trainwreck on this site for 2 1/2 years now and I'm still here with my mouth hanging open at the amazing blatant lying and incompetence going on - and that's just CIG, doesn't even begin to describe what's going on with the backers ...
SQ42 update! I can't believe these guys:
It's a space sim, so what do they spend all their time doing? Trying to make a real life simulator for all the NPCs on the ship. They pre-script all the tech demos, but when it comes to the game Chris Roberts needs it to be like The Sims. Just look at the debug info at 32.00 - each NPC has stats like morale, reliability, virtue, hygiene, sustenance and fatigue. No wonder they haven't released the game yet if they're making everything this complicated.
Also pushing the ship sales hard at the end I noticed.
We decided it was necessary to push Bind Culling back for the following reasons:
1) Progress has been slower than we had hoped, partly due to taking longer than anticipated to convert the last few places in the code that were using old-style Aspects and RMIs to Serialized Variables and Remote Methods, and then completely strip those legacy systems from the network code. That was a necessary step because we didn't want to have to implement Bind Culling for both the old and new systems. I'm not embarrassed to tell you there was some dancing and a few air-punches on my part when the last line of that old code was deleted.
2) There wouldn't have been enough time left before 3.1 for the network and gameplay programmers to deal with the issues we’re expecting the introduction of Bind Culling to cause.
3) Bind Culling would result in clients streaming entities in and out based on distance, but without asynchronous Object Container Streaming it was always a gamble whether the resulting synchronous loading stalls would be worse or better than what players experience now. The plan was to get Bind Culling working, see what the impact on player experience was and then make the call whether to turn it on for 3.1.
4) Range-based Serialized Variable Culling was our backup plan in case Bind Culling didn't make it into 3.1. You may remember that we were working on SV Culling for 3.0 but that it wasn't quite ready in time. Well, it was the first thing we tackled when we came back at the start of the year, and has been working in our development branch for several weeks now (not the branch 3.0.1 was taken from). SV Culling already gives us a lot of the performance gain we would expect from Bind Culling so the urgency for the later has dropped significantly.
5) The network team is needed for other tasks that have increased in priority since they were first added to our schedule.
We decided it was necessary to push Bind Culling back for the following reasons:
1) Progress has been slower than we had hoped, partly due to taking longer than anticipated to convert the last few places in the code that were using old-style Aspects and RMIs to Serialized Variables and Remote Methods, and then completely strip those legacy systems from the network code. That was a necessary step because we didn't want to have to implement Bind Culling for both the old and new systems. I'm not embarrassed to tell you there was some dancing and a few air-punches on my part when the last line of that old code was deleted.
2) There wouldn't have been enough time left before 3.1 for the network and gameplay programmers to deal with the issues we’re expecting the introduction of Bind Culling to cause.
3) Bind Culling would result in clients streaming entities in and out based on distance, but without asynchronous Object Container Streaming it was always a gamble whether the resulting synchronous loading stalls would be worse or better than what players experience now. The plan was to get Bind Culling working, see what the impact on player experience was and then make the call whether to turn it on for 3.1.
4) Range-based Serialized Variable Culling was our backup plan in case Bind Culling didn't make it into 3.1. You may remember that we were working on SV Culling for 3.0 but that it wasn't quite ready in time. Well, it was the first thing we tackled when we came back at the start of the year, and has been working in our development branch for several weeks now (not the branch 3.0.1 was taken from). SV Culling already gives us a lot of the performance gain we would expect from Bind Culling so the urgency for the later has dropped significantly.
5) The network team is needed for other tasks that have increased in priority since they were first added to our schedule.
Star Citizen 3.1 was due out end of March. I am hearing that it's way behind schedule.
Also, they can't get network traffic culling working - at all. So don't expect it anytime soon - if ever.
They also sent out Evocati notice that they may increase it to 2000 invites.
SQ42 update! I can't believe these guys:
It's a space sim, so what do they spend all their time doing? Trying to make a real life simulator for all the NPCs on the ship. They pre-script all the tech demos, but when it comes to the game Chris Roberts needs it to be like The Sims. Just look at the debug info at 32.00 - each NPC has stats like morale, reliability, virtue, hygiene, sustenance and fatigue. No wonder they haven't released the game yet if they're making everything this complicated.
Also pushing the ship sales hard at the end I noticed.
I hope ED ends up doing some form of mmo-rpg for eventual spacelegs for pcs and npcs. Of course the big difference is ED already has a well working space & FTL spaceship simulator already where they've been careful to gradually add on what they can over time with chapter 1 Beyond dropping on Tuesday cleaned of gamestopping bugs despite the trollish naysayers on the ED forum.
Just look at the debug info at 32.00 - each NPC has stats like morale, reliability, virtue, hygiene, sustenance and fatigue.
You know what? This is an actual sign that they attempted at one point to actually implement a subsumption AI. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsumption_architecture) This is the kind of thing you'd need for that.
Not that I believe for a New York minute that we'll ever see it ... but they did have dreams!
My impression still is that CRoberts is a lot like Peter Molyneux, though he doesn't feel any business constraints.
And as always i'm baffled as to them realizing computers won't be able to handle all those physics objects, while not backpedaling on the physical simulation of trade good crates and such.
You know, I think Clive said everything with #5: new tasks were added and given higher priority. Having a boss incapable of distinguishing between the visionary and the hallucinatory, I've had to write that line myself. It's a coded cry for help, for relief from an oppressively incompetent management.
GridMate is Lumberyard's networking subsystem. GridMate is designed for efficient bandwidth usage and low-latency communications. You can synchronize objects over the network with GridMate's replica framework. GridMate's session management integrates with major online console services and lets you handle peer-to-peer and client-server topologies with host migration. GridMate also supports in-game achievements, leaderboards, and cloud-based saved games through third-party social services such as Steam.
QuoteD_Smart posted:
The lols will come when backers see that both serialized variables and network traffic culling get implemented (LOL!) and they still have piss-poor network performance. In fact, I have to believe that the engineers KNOW that it won't make much difference, and that's why they keep kicking the can down the road. The day they release a build with that stuff in there, and it's "meh", we're looking at 3.1 lols like we did when 3.0 Jesus Patch landed. And we're still loling at that one.
It could be even worse than that. They could be genuinely trying to cull traffic, and it could help, but the lack of concrete design makes the task impossible. The same reason why nothing else works.
For example, lets say you wanted to do something simple, and not update a player about other ships that are > 5km away.QuoteNetwork lead: Hey Chris, we're putting in distance culling and we need to know how the long range scanning system will work. What rules decide if a ship can be detected in a scan? How often must these updates happen? What information shows up in the long range scan; position, rotation, shields, energy signatures, what? Is the scan continuous or is it a one-shot thing? By the way, you told us last week that you wanted long range torpedoes. Does the player need to see ships that can fire these? Also, should the Acme Indefatigator particle beam show up past 5 km?
CR: (Handwaving commences)The long range sensor shows you the location and the general composition of other ships and asteroids if you want more information you can focus on one area to get higher resolution but other ships might pick up these emissions you also have passive sensors that might see a spike in energy readings from weapons fire or ships exploding far away but this depends on your own heat and RF output and objects that are blocking your scan the torpedos are cloaked but if you have a SMXGT-17 military sensor you can see them in your frontal arc whenever the torpedo makes a turn but if your wingman has a transponder you can see his ship anywhere a data-link signal can reach which relays all the information about his contacts to your sensor display remember the datalink is blocked by hydrogen clouds unless they have the dish array get it done by next week because we need it for the anniversary sale of the... (handwaving intensifies until airborne. CR tumbles down the hall bouncing off the walls and ceiling)
Network lead: Right away.
Quote from: Virtual CaptainBack in 2014 when Chris and backers were figuratively intoxicated with dreams they thought they would be able to code all of this in non-Speed of light communications. I of course heard about it was after the fact but that still stands out to me as one of the most absurd dreams.
2014 Chris: "in our universe there is no FTL communication. Basically communication happens at the speed the ship can travel or a radio wave can travel in system." (https://youtu.be/Q4OB9Yfo-0Q?t=161)
2014 Chris: "The way that the communications are gonna work is that it travels our in-fiction communication's speed. Which means that when you're in-system and someone beams a message, it gets beamed at the speed of light, and it gets beamed to a relay station, or a message station. This is in the structured universe where the UEE runs it and there's a lot of infrastructure. So one of these stations is right by a jump point so it gets all the information and then it will launch out a message drone or a messenger ship. It goes through the jump point to the other side, where there's probably another relay station, it's collected, then the data gets beamed across to another relay station and so-on and so-forth if it has to go multiple systems." (https://youtu.be/PCG4dZ1mYRw?t=461)
Not surprisingly that didn't work out, I think a dev said something or all the talk about Spectrum made it clear. Communications were going to be instant even across long distances.
Great write up Derek its enjoying to see the how engines work. If CR did poach top notch crytek devs, would they not know long before hand the engine is unworkable for the stretch goals? Why move to ly as I believe they had to of know before switching the goal as unattainable. CR and the inner circle know they are scamming but what about f42 and supposedly all the devs? Many times during my life and reported back to management the development plan was not possible in the time allotted with out major concessions. I cannot help but wonder what if any feedback is coming from development are they just saying yes to everything to keep their jobs and pulling a scam as well?
"Squadron 42 will be the focus of our Holiday Livestream in December, where we will preview some gameplay and share our roadmap for its completion."
Latest AtV. Now they're still "considering" releasing the SQ42 schedule.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/234462833?t=56m20s
You know, the same schedule they were releasing 3 months ago (https://mailchi.mp/cloudimperiumgames/meet-the-defender-of-the-banu-140549?e=cb99c469f2).
I just wish there was a way to prosecute him criminally for his fraud masked as a game creation company.
When he made all of those outrageous claims it had to be lies. He had no way to fulfill what he promised. Incompetence explains a lot but people had to had told him that it was highly unlikely that he could create "his vision".
There seems to be this common thread that ties Robbers and Ortwin's projects together. They seem to end in disaster, unfinished, with them walkking away with generous paychecks and the remainder is in ashes. THe Original vision of the game, sure, possible. but he was a greedy prick who kept spinning larger and larger stories to a point where he had to have known that with the given tech and programming it was no possible at this time. He was supposed to be a competent game developer, not a carny sideshow huckster promising to amaze and stuptify both young and old alike.
Perhaps he thought people whoud continue to fund him a Billion dollars to continue his research experiment but I am sure he knew that people would eventually tire once they saw the progress end. The money would slow to a trickle and the project would die. Hey, as long as he got over a million dollars a year (and his worthless wife too) and drug the proccess out as long as possible all was well.
...we can't really put Bind Culling in because it would break the gameplay. We probably won't see the FULL implementation of Bind Culling in until, as I say, we get Object Container Streaming in. But for us internally we need to get it as soon as possible so we can, we can move on with some of the stuff that we're planning.
LOL!!
Hey, remember that networking fiasco which I chimed in on a few times? And I said that they just can't implement "bind culling" without breaking everything - so they kept kicking it down the road?
One question that come up with every new video that I cannot wrap my mind around. How many people in these videos, artists, devs truly believe they are working to finish the game? If they are making no real progress but keep going along with the everything is great from leadership do they not see the issues? For the most part they seem sincere but I'm always wondering.
Latest newsletter
https://mailchi.mp/cloudimperiumgames/new-look-for-the-newsletter
Reddit thread is goldmine for lunacy. if psychiatrists followed SC supporters posts, I could see universal screening being recommended
:emot-ughh: :
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/83faib/pacer_update_on_the_crytek_vs_cloud_imperium/
ROFLMAO thes Shitizens are good value ...
ROFLMAO thes Shitizens are good value ...
"He's (Ed..Derek's) a rabid lunatic who wants to see Star Citizen destroyed all because he blames Chris Roberts for stepping on his dick back in 1992."
"Crytek's entire lawsuit so far looks precisely like DS wrote it for them." Damning Derek with praise...
"CIG aren't going to publish their financials online for him to scrutinise so he can finally see how a successful business is run " Im guessing this cu$t didnt go tobusinessschool.
Shitizen logic in action
"Practically nobody here knows anything about law and based on what i've read about this case, CIG is in essentially no danger."
Previous lunacy has been topped by another thread.
Time for the double :emot-ughh: :emot-ughh:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/kingdom-come-deliverance-1
Really hope discovery will be public so we can see he has never been a saint.
Interesting:
Darlak Sanis@DarlakSanis
Today at 02:52 pm
CIG and Warhorse Studios partnered a while a go and exchanged techs between the companies.
I know for sure that SC's multi-layer clothing system was given to CIG by WS, but I don't know what WS recieved from them.
One thing I could not find is the supposed high tier backer comment concerning getting you name in KD? Did they put Chris's name in for the shout out or did he buy his way into KD?
Hilarious new thread on SC reddit: When SC is finally released, are ships still going to be purchasable for real cash? (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/85l5gr/when_sc_is_finally_released_are_ships_still_going/)
As if they really need to ask.
Some really salty comments though !
with alpha 3.1 just released to wider testing group in ptu and live release week away our dev teams and designers are looking ahead at alpha 3.2 features and content as part of this we evaluate where we are set priorities and make adjustments while also looking at quality of life issues in the current gameplay we thought it would be useful to get your input on what potential aspects are important to you as far as this goes so look for community poll tomorrow to help us with our roadmap
Alpha 3.2 Feature Survey
As the team prepares to release the Alpha 3.1 patch of the Persistent Universe to a wider selection of backers, we wanted to take an opportunity to use what we’ve learned from this first quarterly release and reassess development priorities, with feedback from you, the players.
If you’ve been following along with our public Roadmap, the producers, directors, and leads have prioritized the introduction of major profession-based mechanics (like mining, salvage, and manual repair) into each quarterly release, along with improvements to gameplay features introduced in Alpha 3.0 and 3.1 (like quantum travel and service beacons.) While these mechanics have the potential to introduce new ways to play and expand the functionality of certain ships, they require extensive development resources and take time to fine-tune to make sure they balance with the other mechanics that already exist in the game.
Part of what we learned through this latest release cycle was that existing elements in the game weren’t getting adjustments and improvements that would improve usability and polish because the resources that would do this work were focusing on implementing the brand new mechanics on the Roadmap. As we feel like this has been short changing the current game experience, we’ve decided to adjust our efforts to dedicate some of our resources to improve and expand the existing features, while making sure that new profession-based mechanics are as polished and playable as possible. Basically, we want to ensure that what’s there is as refined and fun as it can be, before we add too much more.
That’s where you come in.
As we shuffle the features and mechanics, we wanted to know which features you are most excited about seeing implemented, improved and refined. Below you’ll find brief descriptions of the feature improvements on our schedule, we invite you to weigh in on which of these features you would rate as top three priorities to get into the game.
Feature Improvements
Quantum Linking
This feature gives players the ability to sync up with their friends when making quantum jumps. Aside from making grouped multi-ship travel possible, Quantum Linking also helps if you are interdicted, as the friends you brought along with you can help. This system will be used in tandem with AI or player-created missions through the service beacon, so the people hired to help will be linked to you when they jump.
Improved Interdiction
Work on this feature will create a variety of different interdiction scenarios for players, as well as provide the opportunity to trap other players and AI Non-Player Characters using a Quantum Jammer that can be added as a ship component or deployed in a self-powered buoy, like a mine.
Service Beacon Improvements
The Service Beacon will expand and evolve to include new contract types, additional filters, and more feedback precision. AI characters will be able to interface with the system so that they too will be able to request help and provide assistance to others, which will in turn increase both how much of this type of “immediate” content we can offer at any given time, as well as the likelihood that someone – whether player or Non-Player Character – will be drawn to respond to your calls for support.
First Tier of Guilds & Associations
We are going to create member associations within the Universe that give players different benefits. These will ultimately include the Bounty Hunter’s Guild, Merchant’s Guild, etc., but there will also be member\-based services, themed to fit different player types. For example, the United Wayfarers Club provides repair and refuel assistance for pilots broken down in space and also grants discounts for these services at CryAstro.
Party System
These improvements will improve the player’s ability to create groups, allowing you to team up with friends to join the same game instance and cooperate on jobs and missions.
Team Chat
Improvements to the team chat system that will polish communication between players and make the experience more robust and intuitive. Work on this system will also begin to factor in the incorporation of Spectrum into the game.
Economy/Shopping UI Experience
The feature includes the implementation of Shopping Kiosks in the stores and increased variation of available products, including ship items and weapons not physically available to display (or even buy) in stores.
Item 2.0 Ship Systems and Weapons
Feature work would include finalizing Item 2.0 functionality that, allows them to overheat, misfire and suffer critical failures based on factors such as increased wear or damage. It would also introduce deeper functionality to upgradeable items so new power plants, shields, coolers, stealth and comms/radar all make a marked difference to the ship’s performance based on how they are configured.
FPS AI Combat
The first stage of getting combat AI into the Persistent Universe. This would expand mission types by introducing the risk that an AI could be waiting to ambush you on a distant moon, or in a hulk drifting in space.
Select your highest priority, second highest priority and third highest priority. You can also select one profession-based mechanic (salvage, repair, refuel) that should be prioritized for 3.2, however, mining will still have the highest priority and you cannot vote on that decision
Star Citizen: Reverse the Verse LIVE - Alpha 3.2 Feature Survey w/ Chris Roberts
March 23rd, 2018
@07:50
Chris Roberts:
3.1 ah, is definitely performing better that 3.0 and ah, you know, that's going to continue on as we work on some of our more LONG TERM things we talked about, which, you know, OBJECT CONTAINER STREAMING will help with ah... sort of MEMORY... we've got ASYNCHRONOUS SPAWNING that we're getting CLOSER to have working PROPERLY
It's... it's... quite... COMPLICATED to get working because the game wasn't built... ah... it was just built to... create things on the main THREAD and it... it... so... you know people PROGRAM things assuming they can touch anything at any one time which you can't do when you're on, um... MULTIPLE THREADS ehm.
So... and it's SUCH a big codebase that it requires a lot to retrofit it and/or change things out, uh, REFACTOR them to be a NEW THING.
So all those will make like... so for instance if you PLAY and some AI spawn in there'll be a HITCH because they have to LOAD IN and there's a STALL on the main thread until things LOAD IN... but ah, LONG TERM that will go away because that will just sort of... they'll LOAD IN in the BACKGROUND when they're READY, the main thread will be NOTIFIED and BAM! They'll be TURNED ON so...
So wuh... so we're putting all these things in place and so I'm feeling really quite good about it, we've added ah... some NEW FEATURES like the SERVICE BEACON STUFF, ah... there's been a lot of the sort of UI IMPROVEMENT and POLISHES that I think people have noted and LITTLE THINGS like the, eh... you know... PROCEDURAL... GROUND... ah... so you know, sort of, ah...
...FOLLOWING, ah, you know... I've noticed quite a few people posting VIDEOS... I'm LIKING THAT, this is GOOD!
Aahh... and ah... we've tried to... ahm... work in, ah, some things to, ah... you know... IMPROVE ah, like INTERDICTION and stuff like that, ah... and... and... ah...
So GENERALLY it's going pretty well, this will be our first one and uh, we know we've gotta EARN the... the... the BELIEF or the TRUST of everyone ha-haha!
Uh, uhrr, uhmm... so you know we say we're doing QUARTERLIES we actually do QUARTERLIES, ehm, so... this one will be a GOOD STEP, the next one will be a GOOD STEP, ahm... but aahh... so it's GOING GOOD.
One of the reasons why we're doing this SHOW here is, ah... we... we've ah... you know... the best way to do this is as we've planned out a ROADMAP but obviously you just sort of check in where you're at, when you sort of get your RELEASE out, so like, OK...
THIS is what we're going to do for 3.2...
THIS is what we're going to do for 3.3...
...3.4...
All the THINGS that we want to... FIX or change that we didn't foresee when we first did this roadmap... ah, or you know, the things that we wanna address for QUALITY OF LIFE or things we could do in the game to make the gameplay right now feel BETTER... ah, because ultimately you know... I mean the AMOUNT of functionality in the game we have right now, if it all works together and works well, is more that a lot of released games.
I mean, you know... SEA OF THIEVES just came out and, you know, we have like MORE VARIETY OF MISSIONS, a HELL OF A LOT MORE SHIPS, a BUNCH MORE STUFF that you can do, and a LOT MORE AREA TO PLAY IN
But you know THEY spent a lot more time polishing some of their... their BASIC STUFF... I know people complain that they still want more FEATURES and that, cos gamers are generally like, 'I WANT MORE! I WANT MORE!' all the time... But I mean, we've been talking internally about, you know, Star Citizen is not a SPRINT it's a LONG... ha-haha! It's... It's... very... you know... it's more than a MARATHON you know, it's more like a WALK AROUND THE WORLD
Star Citizen: Reverse the Verse LIVE - Alpha 3.2 Feature Survey w/ Chris Roberts
March 23rd, 2018
@11:38
Chris Roberts:
If you look at 3.0 we put a VAST amount of things into it, but we didn't spend enough time making sure the BASE STUFF was working well, so what you had was a whole bunch of new FEATURES but a lot of stuff that used to work in 2.6 or before that ended up not being as good or being BROKEN... so we've been fixing a bunch of that in 3.1 but we've still got more to do, ah, so you know, we've got things that we wanna... ehh... ADDRESS and... you know... uhm, you know... HOW IT FEELS WHEN YOU FLY AROUND, we're not... we're not...
IFCS and the flight model still has a bunch of work we wanna do, ah, you know... the FEEL of FPS moving around, again, same stuff... so uh, eh... you know... it's a... uh... sort of... LONG TERM SLOG
@12:37
Chris Roberts:
So that's the phase we're at, this is what we'll do every single, ah... we sort of do it as we're coming up to the release, we're assessing it just to make sure all the teams are ALIGNED, ah, you know, our NEW PRODUCTION PROCESS is working REALLY WELL, we've, you know... we've FACTORED into a sort of much more sort of TEAM BASED AGILE SCRUM, ah... and... our sort of VELOCITY in terms of, ah... FIXES and ehh, ahh... and RESOLVING ISSUES is much much better, I mean we've... I think we've resolved something like 8,000, um... uh... uh... um... during... 3.1? I can't... quite... around... and then... and I think it was like 15,000 for the whole of 3.0 which was basically a year.
@13:27
Chris Roberts:
I think the team's working together, uhm... ah... cos we've really... we WORK to try to put everyone together like HERE'S THE PROGRAMMERS, HERE'S THE DESIGNERS, it's like... hey, you know, you're VEHICLE FEATURE TEAM ONE, you're VEHICLE FEATURE TEAM TWO, you're GAMEPLAY... TEAM
And you've got the DESIGNERS and the ENGINEERS and the ARTISTS and we're actually putting them all together.
And we're trying to CO-LOCATE people so the teams are sort of oriented in the various studios, we're not having them spread between timezones as much as we used to.
@16:25
Chris Roberts:
And we'll also get some feedback on some of the bigger LONGER TERM professions, what's INTERESTING or what's the MOST IMPORTANT to you guys, MINING's already been in progress, it's started at the beginning of this year, I know that in our roadmap it says SCHEDULED but it's already been IN PROGRESS. That should be changing in the next, uh... ehr... the... the next ROADMAP, I don't know if it'll be this Friday but the one afterwards.
But we've been working on that, there's a lot of infrastructure issues in terms of making sure the resources are mapped on the planets and we can persist them across the instances. And we can generate it and handle all the stuff. We're making very good progress on that, I think it's going to be a very cool, uh... FEATURE.
"It's... it's... quite... COMPLICATED to get working because the game wasn't built... ah... it was just built to... create things on the main THREAD and it... it... so... you know people PROGRAM things assuming they can touch anything at any one time which you can't do when you're on, um... MULTIPLE THREADS ehm.
So... and it's SUCH a big codebase that it requires a lot to retrofit it and/or change things out, uh, REFACTOR them to be a NEW THING.
So all those will make like... so for instance if you PLAY and some AI spawn in there'll be a HITCH because they have to LOAD IN and there's a STALL on the main thread until things LOAD IN... but ah, LONG TERM that will go away because that will just sort of... they'll LOAD IN in the BACKGROUND when they're READY, the main thread will be NOTIFIED and BAM! They'll be TURNED ON so..."
I'm not really sure you can deduce very much from the nonsense that comes out of Chris's mouth.
He likes to throw in some technical terms to make the fans think he knows what he's doing.
42:13 // we have a "full featured" game <-- :emot-lol:
42:30 + minutes
What a farce. He's talking about fitting progressive "modules" to the ships, even mentioned "powerplants" (in ED), like it's a pioneering development, something ED already has for years. Seems like he'll never stop touting new features and developments as "gamechangers" , ripped off ideas from whatever games have been released since SC's first KS, to feed the shillizens' denial malaise.
Guess the game:And getting torn to shreds by reviewers and the court of public opinion. The biggest complaint; No content.
- it's an online multiplayer game
- you can walk around in first person, but then pilot a ship
- you can walk around the ship
- you can multi crew ships with your friends
- you can explore uncharted lands
- you can visit outposts
- you can do contracts and increase your reputation with mission givers
- you can engage other players in gun fights or ship to ship combat
- you can even board other player's ships and steal their cargo
- you can customise your character's appearance and buy cosmetic items
- you can pick up cargo boxes, then put them down anywhere you like on your ship
Sound like anything familiar?
ps. it's actually a full game out now
And getting torn to shreds by reviewers and the court of public opinion. The biggest complaint; No content.
Still doesn't change a thing, though.
So that reclaimer ship is playable, for some people I guess. Walkthrough/verbal fellation video here. Kind of looks like they've hacked it into the arena commander map instead of loading it in the main game. Commentary below:
[video type="youtube"]WeyimocPIOs[/video]
@0:44- So about half of the ship is the landing gear. Deploying it immediately breaks the particle effects on the engines.
@1:27- Oh they've started adding "Auto-turrets" since it became apparent that nobody will ever crew turrets on their ships. I wonder if they've actually got the turrets working? My money is on no.
@4:00- Massive salvage arm! Doesn't work. But it's gonna be really cool! <Proceeds to imagine how cool it will be>
@5:00- Tractor beam operator seats! Don't work. <Proceeds to imagine how they will work>
@6:00- Scanning station! Remote Turrets! Don't do anything. <Talks about what these might be for>. An engineering station! Doesn't do anything. But look at all those particle effects in the grinder!
--I'm beginning to detect a theme here. --
@7:15- Escape pods, that don't work
@8:35- Drooling over detailed wires in the elevator shaft. I honestly do not understand how any of these sperglords can give a shit about the fidelitous loose wires when nothing on the ship works. He shows off the turret access ladder- "Unfortunately I can't go in it right now"
@9:30- Gravity generator, I guess this makes the goo.
@9:50- "This is the drone room. Now they don't have the drones in here yet..." OH YOU DON'T SAY. Look, an operator seat for a thing that isn't in the game! Thrilling.
Anyway this goes on for 30 minutes but I'm bored now. Fuck you, Star Citizen.
Gorf
It only makes Chris’s Gamescom 2016 overpromising sins all the more egregious in hindsight, and suggests Roberts concocted that fictional roadmap completely without any consultation from his development team.
That is way too generous.
Chris lied and lied and lied.
There is absolutely no way he didnt know he couldn't deliver what he promised.
Hey, it's almost as if I was saying this all along, and even before the bullshit roadmap showed up back then. :emot-colbert:
Well I mean he's made 150 million+ with the same nonsense so far, why change your business model when its working.
They'll be siphoning out money through their shell companies as expenses, and by the time Crytek gets through with them and the project crashes and burns, there will be no 'money' left.
Game Over man, Game Over... I'll never be allowed to play SC anymore now... Is impossible to fight anyone at 5 FPS... The Interdiction is already a shit. And now you finish to f*** us... FIX THE PERFORMANCE before add REQUIRED COMBAT!
Just seen your tweet:
If this proves to be true, and I'd imagine that the limits would only apply on patch release day when demand spikes, then this means CIG must be really tight on cash. This should be setting off alarm bells for any backers, but most will just ignore it.
LOL I went and found it, someone did a good job on this one, if it had been true that would have been pretty funny.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/4/thread/star-citizen-alpha-3-1-0m-ptu-738258-patch-notes
Seems like quite a few people thought it was true, instead of just another Goon meme. Just goes to show how much of a laughing stock Star Citizen is.
Looking around on youtube for people doing any performance testing, ending is hilarious.
What still confuses me is he says the ships makes the game and I would agree with him the look
cool. But there is no game and when I hear this from people I just don't get it.
Lot of players reporting crashes, and terrible stuttering post update.
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/88l5e7/the_game_is_nowhere_near_stable_enough_for/
Those SC players are completely ungrateful! CIG finally adds a viable game mechanic - cooldown period for a ship death with an expedite feature - and nothing but bitching about it!
I like their priorities.
You have 0 gameplay, no core features are functional, but you are working on procedural cuisine and doing an entire show about it.
If everything is important, nothing is important.
I like their priorities.
You have 0 gameplay, no core features are functional, but you are working on procedural cuisine and doing an entire show about it.
If everything is important, nothing is important.
blatantly trying to force people to buy multiple ships. chris is making it very clear here that his speeches in the past about not needing higher tier packages with lots of ships was an absolute crock. I have a feeling that this will be tip of the iceberg and moving forward anyone who attempts to play SC without a large fleet of ships is going find themselves having a pay-to-not-wait experience very similar to that of some mobile phone game shovelware.
- Performs other related duties as assigned, including some personal requests.
- Assists in food orders for Executives during crunch times.
- Maintaining various files and filing systems for the supported attorneys.
- International travel may be required as a part of this role
Here's a question I've been meaning to ask: Does this game actually have a designer? Someone to think things through to make sure the end result is consistent and fun and so on?
Here's a question I've been meaning to ask: Does this game actually have a designer? Someone to think things through to make sure the end result is consistent and fun and so on?*
Here's a question I've been meaning to ask: Does this game actually have a designer? Someone to think things through to make sure the end result is consistent and fun and so on?*
If you were wondering why the Star Citizen Reddit and official Spectrum forums were on fire after the 3.1 release.
7 yrs + $180m (other people's money) + 5 studios + 500+ devs
Brought you this (one of the latest ships implemented in 3.1)
My question would be why are they having such persistent issues with minor things, doors, clipping, elevators?
Gotta have an exit strategy.
My rant:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/981565344178417665.html
I thought much the same as bubba as soon as I read that they removed the REC from the game. They reduced the odds that people will turn out to play and at the same time reduced the server loads and minimized the odds of 2 players appearing in the same area. Instant bug report reductions. It'as amazing that there were no fits from backers. If I were still in this mess I'd be fuming.
The money grab fits Robbers to a T. They have to be close to running on fumes with the donations way down and with the current state of things so abysmal the trend is unlikely to turn around.
As far as REC goes, CR was quite clear in 2015 that giving them out helped get certain aspects of the game tested. Now they've stopped, and the numbers of "testers" have fallen.
Behold! Like the mythical platform of Windows, which took six and a half years to go from 1.0 to 3.1, SC has trundled through to 3.1. 3.11, the first "good" version, is just around the corner!
The testing has come to an end... the MVP is nigh!
Or that nobody's playing it works to their advantage. Gotta have an exit strategy.
"BREAKING: I hate to say "I told you so"
Won't buy this bullshit, I bet you love it you liar! :police:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/roadmap/board/1-Star-Citizen
Design Notes: Mining, Feb 2015 (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/14522-Design-Notes-Mining)
I think it's safe to say we're all the way into 2019 now. They're going to keep shifting things. I mean, look at 3.4. Who thinks they're going to do ALL of that?
if they can smash this out in 3 months what have they been doing for 6 years? Half of these cans have been kicked down the road for so long it will be a miracle if they finish them all now.
I think now they have new strategy, after failing to meet any deadlines for years now their main focus is to meet made up deadlines.
So they can push new narrative to whales -> see we can follow deadlines -> give us more money!
About actual content - they will just move it to next patch 3.3...
Closer to the point 3.2
Bind culling
FPS AI
Manned Turrets
Mining
Party System
Item 2.0
Wear and Tear
if they can smash this out in 3 months what have they been doing for 6 years? Half of these cans have been kicked down the road for so long it will be a miracle if they finish them all now.
We have now developed or new cutting edge FPS AI and it is in game, 3.2 achieved!! However, AI FPS Missions are only scheduled for 4.0 as we need to resolve how they react to different procedurally generated meals in the cafeteria, so there is no gameplay you cant test yet, but still a very important milestone you should be proud of us, it has never been done before after all.
Right. Which is why even though Chris said he wasn't giving out dates, a schedule appeared in 2016 - as we later found out, it was pure bullshit. Replaced in Jan 2018 by a new Trello-like version of the same bullshit. Which is why 3.1 was reduced by over 50% by the time they released it a sub-par version on 03/31.I guess they will reach a point where the project is too unstable way before.
As I said in one of my threads, all things being equal, they need another 8 yrs to get to a final release. EIGHT FUCKING YEARS MORE
I guess they will reach a point where the project is too unstable way before.
It's not meant to be in 3.2, they will slowly push a good portion of it into the future cause "game development".
You know what that would be acceptable if they had a road map from start to finish, and not a plan to fuck knows where, made up 50% revamps of marine Armour and helmet polish.
I guess they will reach a point where the project is too unstable way before.
Unless they don't restart everything with a decent roadmap and stable builds this will lead to nowhere but a better looking goat simulator.
Are you kidding? Star Citizen IS Goat Simulator in space - they just haven't added any goats yet.
Are you kidding? Star Citizen IS Goat Simulator in space - they just haven't added any goats yet.
Are you kidding? Star Citizen IS Goat Simulator in space - they just haven't added any goats yet.
As I said in one of my threads, all things being equal, they need another 8 yrs to get to a final release. EIGHT FUCKING YEARS MOREWhen you need 15+ years for developing a video game, your underlying platform is gone, when you're done.
Yeah well look on the bright side. Byt then there will be computers powerful enough to run it.I wouldn't be so sure, Star Citizen is a CPU- and network-limited game and Moore's Law didn't work as Croberts imagined it.
So there's a new $45 starter ship concept - with only 6 months insurance. As these things go, some Spergs aren't too happy about it.
There is a reddit thread on this and even the people that like the game but are unhappy about it are shouted down in usual cult like sc fashion.
hello guys,
maybe some noticed already, some maybe not.
the actual funding some misses some dollars,
regarding the exchange rate.
if you pay in euro, they count you €0.91 per $1.00.
the actual exchange rate is €0.80 per $1.00!
this means, that today every payment you do in €,
you pay ~14% to much.
added to the funding sum is just the net $-value,
even if you pay more.
VAT is not added.
with other currencies, it is the same, with a way to high
exchange rate, that is fixed.
:emot-lol:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Da5_-c2V4AANZ8T.jpg)
That's a real email btw
Aaand... why do you put out raw gameply? No voice-over to tell what is happening (ppl start thinking this mission is all it`s got), no explanation what this game is about...:grin: :laugh:
This try to promote Star Citizen is actually turning unknowing ppl away from it. Shame! shame, shame, ... yo`know shame!
Star Citizen: 6 Gorgeous Minutes of "Picking up a Box" Gameplay
Interesting video and the lol-comments. IGN has seemed to be vigged by CIG-arrets for the past few years. They did a nasty "meh" video "review" of Elite: Dangerous a few months ago with the same ol "no depth" superficial panning and rated it overall 40% lower than it should have been.That hits the nail on the head. It's a shallow MVP with barebones mechanics nowhere near of what has been promised during the Kickstarter era, which hides its thin content behind a worse grind than what you find in freemium games, deliberately designed to waste your time. They only thing which has been implemented to a meaningful depth is the combat and consequentially all content extensions focus on that. Everything else looks almost like a placeholder.
immense galaxy of visitable unique star systemsis finally shut down, when these don't cover the operating cost anymore.
That hits the nail on the head. It's a shallow MVP with barebones mechanics nowhere near of what has been promised during the Kickstarter era, which hides its thin content behind a worse grind than what you find in freemium games, deliberately designed to waste your time. They only thing which has been implemented to a meaningful depth is the combat and consequentially all content extensions focus on that. Everything else looks almost like a placeholder.omigosh, I can't agree with most of what you've said about ED. The game imo, has fulfilled much of the base promises of the KS. ED is literally FE2&FFE expanded tenfold. Yes, the combat is great, but so is the ship design, the sound design and the rotating stations are well done. The background "starbox" is literally composed of the galaxy model with an astronomer hired to help with the stellar forge mechanics. Landing on terrain is implemented. Collisions and even different gravities are working where debris and materials from collisions and explosion act and roll down hills believably at the different possible gravities among the myriad planetoids of systems. All this among other working systems including the procedural achievements. Yes, there are placeholders, but as I and others have mentioned on the ED forum plenty of times, the game continues to be gradually worked on and we are still on year four out of a proposed timeplan of ten years or more. There is so much new and updated since the initial release so what FDev have done is not unsubstantial. Not panning out with players? ED has the highest steamspy counting of different logins per week of the entire space game genre. It's hard to congregate multiple players because the simulation is so realistically vast, where players could be among thousands of possible system locations and that's just counting the populated bubble. Beyond isn't maintenance mode. Development may seem slow at times, but ED is far from maintenance mode which is more like just leaving the lights on for the login servers. Braben hasn't f'cked it up, he and Frontier have made a successful game, made Frontier the most successful it's been in its history. JWE is sensibly the priority now, where every game company has to deal with priorities to meet release dates among different products in their line. And they've recently put out listings to hire some programmers to work specifically on ED particularly on improving the networking.
This MMO has clearly been put in maintenance mode, because it didn't pan out with the number of active players Frontier imagined for it. All future paid expansions have been canceled - because nobody would buy expansions for an almost dead MMO. And it doesn't help that the few remaining players are all separated by platform.
So all you get in the future is trickle updates paid by micro-transactions until theis finally shut down, when these don't cover the operating cost anymore.
It's also quite telling that people get triggered by reviews of their favorite space MMO or when someone mentions they stopped playing it. There is a huge overlap between the Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous crowds and the only difference is that David Braben managed to fuck up less than Chris Roberts and at least get his MVP out.
omigosh, I can't agree with most of what you've said about ED.Just a note: People with an engaging game to play spend time playing it, not writing books defending it on forums and comments.
https://www.frontier.co.uk/careers/disciplines/art/concept-artist-vehicle-and-weapon-specialist (means more assets planned)It confirms my argument: The only thing Frontier actually cares about is the ship combat, because it's one of the few non-placeholder gameplay loops in Elite Dangerous. Almost everything else is just a grind for gear to get a higher rank in combat. (Even the planet landings were just added to waste even more of your time reaching a POI.)
That hits the nail on the head. It's a shallow MVP with barebones mechanics nowhere near of what has been promised during the Kickstarter era, which hides its thin content behind a worse grind than what you find in freemium games, deliberately designed to waste your time. They only thing which has been implemented to a meaningful depth is the combat and consequentially all content extensions focus on that. Everything else looks almost like a placeholder.
This MMO has clearly been put in maintenance mode, because it didn't pan out with the number of active players Frontier imagined for it. All future paid expansions have been canceled - because nobody would buy expansions for an almost dead MMO. And it doesn't help that the few remaining players are all separated by platform.
So all you get in the future is trickle updates paid by micro-transactions until theis finally shut down, when these don't cover the operating cost anymore.
It's also quite telling that people get triggered by reviews of their favorite space MMO or when someone mentions they stopped playing it. There is a huge overlap between the Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous crowds and the only difference is that David Braben managed to fuck up less than Chris Roberts and at least get his MVP out.
You are - quite literally - insane. :emot-ughh:Thanks. :grin:
Thanks. :grin:
Just a note: People with an engaging game to play spend time playing it, not writing books defending it on forums and comments.
Honestly I can't see any difference between the core audience of SC and ED. The toxicity is there too and the question of "which space sim" boils down to simple tribalism.
It confirms my argument:
The only thing Frontier actually cares about is the ship combat, because it's one of the few non-placeholder gameplay loops in Elite Dangerous. Almost everything else is just a grind for gear to get a higher rank in combat. (Even the planet landings were just added to waste even more of your time reaching a POI.)
That becomes pretty obvious when you play other not-so-shallow space games with much more content variety, many fleshed out non-combat-focused mechanics and a sensible pace of progression.
The thing with the tribalist SC/ED snowflakes is however that they usually don't even touch other games and get upset, when somebody dares to stop playing their favorite game and move to a different one. Most of them don't have a clue about video games and just want to live in their fantasy space world.
Just a note: People with an engaging game to play spend time playing it, not writing books defending it on forums and comments.Encouragingly I found more listings (edited above) including the principal networking position for ED which if improved could facilitate future spacelegs. As for writing books, you got me motivated to be more verbose here, but I'm just responding in difference to your points. I'm still playing ED regularly.
Honestly I can't see any difference between the core audience of SC and ED. The toxicity is there too and the question of "which space sim" boils down to simple tribalism.
It confirms my argument: The only thing Frontier actually cares about is the ship combat, because it's one of the few non-placeholder gameplay loops in Elite Dangerous. Almost everything else is just a grind for gear to get a higher rank in combat. (Even the planet landings were just added to waste even more of your time reaching a POI.)
That becomes pretty obvious when you play other not-so-shallow space games with much more content variety, many fleshed out non-combat-focused mechanics and a sensible pace of progression.I'd say scale vs. fidelity tradeoff and dev limitations aligned with current tech which has been a main theme of this forum's discussion. With the looks of it. Frontier is planning to improve ED with a major hiring milestone. So it's hopeful ED will eventually could even fulfill the rest of the KS stretch goals. SC has been going at it for 7 years. ED, I'd bet can pragmatically do it better in the same and future time range.
The thing with the tribalist SC/ED snowflakes is however that they usually don't even touch other games and get upset, when somebody dares to stop playing their favorite game and move to a different one. Most of them don't have a clue about video games and just want to live in their fantasy space world.
Like a lot of the videos on gaming from unreal.
SC at 10 min - jk
LOL!! Yeah, I see what you did there :emot-lol:
That was a very cool video on how much just a few ms can cost you, I suspect you in your games that you dealt with similar problems. I wonder if CIG has the people to understand and fine tune like they were talking about in the video?
let's be fair; that game in the video didn't have the premium features that only a $185m+ star citizen can bring you like face over IP, pets and changeable uniforms which I think we all agree is exactly we expect from a spaceship sim.
The SC "roadmap" is too similar by "3.x" to Elite: Dangerous' "Beyond" season numbering where there are supposedly going to be further "3.1","3.2" etc. updates by 2018 end . I wonder if it was just coincidence , or actually intentional on CIG's part to try to fool ED players who have not been following the SC debacle closely. So they hear about "3.2" is coming and erroneously think 'oh, SC has some "season 3" or third year something, out already' like ED and Beyond. Occasionally there are still shillizen(probably) threads that pop up in the ED forum out of nowhere trying to subtly bring some attention back to SC.
Every time I look at their funding chart I just think there is NO WAY it can be real or accurate. How can CIG with such bad press, low player stats, and overall no progress rake in 2mil a month on their low months? It has to be padded for sure, since refunds are out no way people are still using it for money laundering if they did unless the laundering is coming from inside CIG.
With all the controversy about Russians owning game studios - I was wondering what sort of mechanism would allow you to launder cash through Star Citizen. Derek's Money Laundromat blog discussed using the grey market to get clean cash out, but I don't see that working on a huge scale, especially since there could still be a paper trail for the authorities.
So how would you go about Laundering a few million? Please note - I know nothing about how money laundering works except from what I learnt watching Breaking Bad and I'm not accusing CIG of any wrongdoing, this is just a thought exercise.
Money laundering doesn't have a value cap. Whether it's a few hundred from stolen credit cards, drug money or whatever, it's still money laundering if it's ill-gotten gains. The whole idea is to turn dirty money into clean money; so the amount is irrelevant.
Sure, but it's the possible mechanism I was wondering about. I'm not saying CIG have done anything dodgy, but didn't they do a lot of outsourcing at one point with relatively little too show for it?
Sure, but it's the possible mechanism I was wondering about. I'm not saying CIG have done anything dodgy, but didn't they do a lot of outsourcing at one point with relatively little too show for it?
Sure but idiots in companies wasting money on ill thought out or poorly managed projects is nothing new.
Chris and his pals taking cash out of the company is also one thing, other people using Star Citizen as a way to launder money is obviously another.
There was a lot of Grey Market activity for a number of years and there were quite a few people advertising large inventories of ships whicvh you had to wonder where they were getting them from and why...
Absolutely correct on all counts. Even taking cash out of the company isn't illegal unless someone (backers, investors, banks) sue them for fraud under "unjust enrichment" causes and such.
I don't have any reason to believe that CIG has been involved any such activities. I don't see how outsourcing could be used for money laundering when they would still have to account for it and use that info in their tax filings.
I won't spell it out, but I will say that there are good reasons game companies have been trying to avoid their games having secondary markets.
Latest roadmap is out.
The tribal leaders are in fits (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/8m4kmo/roadmap_update_network_bind_cullling_from_511_to/?st=JHMGTLMW&sh=445510c2).
Anyone want to buy a Tonk ?
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT9BUGDjixZCLC4alhbMmt4_PEmDrNuM1RxCtAt9edTSiJWHoaG)
Totally not money laundering
MAKE MY MMO: STAR CITIZEN’S LEGATUS PACK OFFERS 117 SHIPS FOR $27,000 (http://massivelyop.com/2018/05/26/make-my-mmo-2018-may-26/)
"The Flower of Knighthood" kickstarter MMO looks like its taking a carbon copy straight out of CR's playbook. 1000 vs. 1000 battles, complex crafting and realistic battle mechanics, and the list goes on. All for just for 600k! Please... fool us once....
I so called that (like, months ago) :emot-snoop:
Why let a small thing like scope creep get in the way of milking more money out ofgullible suckersloyal members
It will become funny once this game releases (if it ever will be - at least in some form): If CIG adjusts that earning those ships takes a reasonable amount of play time, then all the poeple having invested thousands of dollars will go amok, because they have lost their "investment". Also CIG will lose their main source of income, since nobody will buy their ships anymore. If CIG adjusts the time required to earn a ship ingame based on the price tag of the ship and a wage of 1$/h, then many ships will require several hundreds of hours to farm. Also in this case, SC will probably go down as the most P2W game in history, even worse than any EA game ever made (I'm looking at you SW:BF2).
They're just creating jpegs now. One after another, pushing everything that might be connected to space or war. Desperately grasping for every dollar they can suck in. And by doing so, distancing more and more backers. If you still don't see the desperation in this, you're an idiot.
"The Flower of Knighthood" kickstarter MMO looks like its taking a carbon copy straight out of CR's playbook. 1000 vs. 1000 battles, complex crafting and realistic battle mechanics, and the list goes on. All for just for 600k! Please... fool us once....Lol wut, Kickstarter? Is this 2011?
Mechs are apparently coming
Jesus.
I want the mechs to be able to combine together - mighty morphin power rangers style - in to the ultra mega robertszord
LOL, that gave me an idea for the next video they make, I will suggest that I would like a multi-pilot mech.
It struck me over the weekend, with all the media coverage of the 27K pack that very few guys in the comments were defending CIG. Normally you can expect the fanboys to be all over these things quelling dissent. Which made me wonder - a company with an aggressive marketing approach may very well employ a team for "social" marketing who may well have created multiple Alts to promote the game in forums.
Clearly I'm just floating ideas here - but with 450 (ish) employees at CIG: what do they all do? Because it doesn't seem like many of them are actually making the game.
LOL :laugh: on Reddit
To CIG: it's 5 months since Holiday ATV Special, where is the Squadron 42 roadmap you promoted?
Oh no - just heard on one of BoredGamers vids that the Mech suit thing was a fake :(
You forgot the best one, the crobbeariceberg
In other Star Citizen news which can only be described by tilting your head back and laughing out loud, those clowns came up with this graphic (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/8myt9g/tip_of_the_development_iceberg/) to explain the bs with the project.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DeY9gMjX4AA-QG7.jpg)
Yeah, $186M + almost 7 years (this coming Nov) in the making (4 yrs behind schedule), this is our version that better explains the fiasco that is the development.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DeY9xqFW4AACjDM.jpg)
Of course we know it was fake. It originated from 4Chan.
I find it hilarious they have long range scanning (in the precision they claim they are going to achieve it) for Q1 2019. I don't even get why they use a "roadmap" anyway. This looks like it would be useless in an actual software development environment. Looks very amateurish and waterfall-ish. However, if this grapeshot strategy of development is really what is going on in there then the devs have nothing but my sympathy for the 'management' they are having to endure.
Sandi has tweeted a picture of somebody working on a cape. A CAPE. In a space game. A FUCKING CAPE.
How is it that Derek still hasn't tweeted the shit out of this? There is no game, but let's make a cape. In space. Because, you know, that never gets in the way of anything. And stuff.
OH MY FUCKING GOD. DEREK! HOW MUCH LONGER MUST WE SUFFER?
So Sandi tweeted a video of an artist making....wait for it...CAPES!
Someone saw the Solo movie.
I told you they had little interest in actually finishing the game promised. They will just keep ADDING STUFF TO SELL.
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/1002921548532142082
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DesXzadW0AA5x24.jpg)
It really is crazy to see capes being added but the truth is in reddit people just keep talking about how great the game is. Many base this solely on pretty screenshots and not a word about immersive gameplay. With no major progress being made they stay completely happy with taking screenshots. I watched a lives stream the previous night and it was about getting stuck to the outside windshield bug and then you fly around in that position.Many of these people don't play video games and don't know how to play video games. They share that with Chris Roberts, who has no clue about that topic either. Some of those people launder money through CIG and keep posting bullshit to feed their pump & dump scheme. Some are looking for bragging rights by trying to "own" as much JPEGs as possible. Some are looking for a "second life" community, because they have no friends in the real world.
The trouble with all the capes / clothes / clothing stores / weapon stores / AI with daily routines / character customisation etc is that none of it adds any real gameplay. Sure it's good immersion to be able to walk into a store to buy a weapon, but the same function could be handled with a simple terminal. The clothing in particular adds NOTHING to the game, but represents (hundreds of) thousands of coder and artist man-hours to implement. The complex AI probably just adds to server lag. But I suppose that just sums up Star Citizen, it's a high fidelity art project & tech demo first rather than a playable game.
Oh boy... there goes Reddit.. Comparing the current roadmap to CitizenCon 2016 (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/8oa68h/comparing_the_current_roadmap_to_citizencon_2016/)
So I asked to get unbanned. Got a dumb response. Replied that it was dumb and they should just lift the ban. Now I have been muted for 72 hours before I can contact the mod again. Why don't those people like me? Like it's my fault that Derek was right?
I hate being banned. Now I can't go into discussion saying that Derek was right when it all played out and he really was right. I really, really, really want to rub it in in that incestious group of utter morons.
I hate being banned. Now I can't go into discussion saying that Derek was right when it all played out and he really was right. I really, really, really want to rub it in in that incestious group of utter morons.
I'm guessing that new ship sale Derek was talking about is on its way:
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/8ojxso/its_coming_20180614/
I'm guessing that new ship sale Derek was talking about is on its way:
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/8ojxso/its_coming_20180614/
Yup. Totally called it.
New ship sale coming 06/10. Seriously, fuck these guys. Fuck them.
FF 05:45
I was watching that video with the Senior Sytems whateveryacallit and couldnt help notice the empty desks and the guy you could see in the background was watching You Tube Videos.
They must be REALLY BUSY!
Busting ass cranking out those updates and progressing with those quarterly metrics. Uh huh.
Sad.
I was watching that video with the Senior Sytems whateveryacallit and couldnt help notice the empty desks and the guy you could see in the background was watching You Tube Videos.
They must be REALLY BUSY!
Busting ass cranking out those updates and progressing with those quarterly metrics. Uh huh.
Sad.
A few gems from Glassdoor
https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Reviews/Cloud-Imperium-Games-Reviews-E776546.htm (https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Reviews/Cloud-Imperium-Games-Reviews-E776546.htm)
A few gems from Glassdoor
https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Reviews/Cloud-Imperium-Games-Reviews-E776546.htm (https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Reviews/Cloud-Imperium-Games-Reviews-E776546.htm)
Does anybody know how reliable the posts are on that site?Sure.
How easy is it to falsely claim to be an ex employee and leave a review?
With 3.2 getting ready for release I thought I'd do a quick cut and paste job to see how it compares to their original promises:
An enterprising backer re-mixed the Star Citizen E3 trailer to match the current game's actual frame rate.That are smooth even frame times. In the real experience they are all over the place depending on server load.
So there should be a new acronym for Star Citizen? Post Release Date PRD3.2?
THere has to be a better term, comon guys, pitch in an idea.
Post Announced Release Period PARP 3.2
I can’t even stop laughing as I’m typing this.
I still don't get it, am I missing something?
Robbers. Blah Blah Blah. I'm just making shit up as I go along. I'm in way over my head.
I live in constant fear that I will be found out and a crazed backer will kidnap me and force me to continue developing the game from his basement lair. He will chain me up make me wear daipers and subsist on a diet of Ramen noodles with really old anime looped, playing in the background.
Robbers. Blah Blah Blah. I'm just making shit up as I go along. I'm in way over my head.
I live in constant fear that I will be found out and a crazed backer will kidnap me and force me to continue developing the game from his basement lair. He will chain me up make me wear daipers and subsist on a diet of Ramen noodles with really old anime looped, playing in the background.
Interesting spectrum post concerning IFCS with pdf documentation.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/50259/thread/ifcs-q-a
IFCS Q&A
discussion
Yesterday at 7:05 pm
Not long ago, following the 3.0 release, IFCS was an unstable mess. Since then, I have refactored IFCS, and this refactor was released as part of a 3.1 patch, restoring smooth, stable and responsive flight control. This was a major milestone in the development of the SC flight model, and while it isn't yet as solid as I want it to be (ESP broke during this refactor, but is improving as of 3.2), I believe we've reached a point where it would be valuable to present to the community a detailed description of the flight system I've been building for Star Citizen over the last 5 years.
I have presented the document as a PDF, which you can find at this link:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1poxfPYfm32r84G4WWWJ6uK-rU6ijl85g
Because the flight model in SC is complex, I have provided designers with a goal-based method for
tuning our ships, allowing them to focus on how they want the ships to perform rather than how to
achieve that performance within the simulation.
Let's be honest here, the Physics of flight is standard stuff, especially in a vacuum. Coding the flight model to feel good to the player is hard though.
But here's the thing, almost none of the ships in Star Citizen are really designed to fly in space, or even in atmosphere. They're designed to look good, with almost no consideration for function. And if you're going to the trouble to calculate the performance based on thruster position and power then this matters. So clearly, despite all the physics in that document, they still just have a flight model similar to the Wind Commander games.
Runways in Space; why can’t croberts get away from this schlock???
Chris Roberts never really got the memo though. For someone who has spent his life in Sci-fi, he's far better at the Fiction bit and seems to know next to nothing about the Science.
I was able to get a little time and read thorough the ifcs doc. Seems like they have implemented a lot of assistance. I would only be able to related to anything stated by cross referencing the old ED physic videos since I have much flight time in ED. But I'm not sure if that is even possible as that would be the only way to understand the jargon. I read through a lot of the responses and wonder if anyone that still has SC access and understands the doc could comment. I always question anything they publish and wonder if this is just to excite the spenders and bring in new money.
Another interesting post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/8u538x/50_player_group/
BitchFantastik
32 points ·
16 hours ago
I was there too! Here's another angle https://i.imgur.com/6EDNR2q.jpg
Also, thanks for trying to push my 600i debris out of the way ;) ...turns out they aren't meant to hold 50 people.
What they left out:
1. Private Server
2. Ship failed to function every time.
3. Mod states toilets caused 600i failure
4. Seats still eat you.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/277951253
02h54m43s
Near the end states CIG has done a super job with patch.
I was able to get a little time and read thorough the ifcs doc. Seems like they have implemented a lot of assistance. I would only be able to related to anything stated by cross referencing the old ED physic videos since I have much flight time in ED. But I'm not sure if that is even possible as that would be the only way to understand the jargon. I read through a lot of the responses and wonder if anyone that still has SC access and understands the doc could comment. I always question anything they publish and wonder if this is just to excite the spenders and bring in new money.
With this IFCS doc I got the sense that the physics guy just desperately wants people to see and understand all the work and knowledge he has put in over the course of the project, since it is obviously being wasted by the current game experience. I imagine anyone with real expertise stuck at CIG right now who can see the end coming would want to show it isn't their fault.
They once accused Derek of doxxing, but yet they are pimping out their kids for a second time?
Are they facing a Fed enquiry?
Isn't that the sort of thing which will only happen after the collapse?
maybe it will habe to go bankrupt first & someone buying the assets to finish the game.The assets are worthless.
How are they supposed to satisfy the whales?The whales are worthless, they already spent all their money on Croberts.
With this IFCS doc I got the sense that the physics guy just desperately wants people to see and understand all the work and knowledge he has put in over the course of the project, since it is obviously being wasted by the current game experience. I imagine anyone with real expertise stuck at CIG right now who can see the end coming would want to show it isn't their fault.It's entirely wasted with Chris Roberts' preferred ship control method of point and click with a mouse, inherited from Freelancer.
The assets are worthless.My experience with crowdfunding is that as long as you continue to give away money they are nice but the moment you stop they will not give a fuck about you, they simply exploit the community & nice people in general, nice guys finish last. Even if you get your money back it still means you gave them a 0% loan & took a lot of risk.
The whales are worthless, they already spent all their money on Croberts.
Just a quick reminder: Assets are worth something, when they belong to a well known brand or franchise like Star Wars and you get the license to use that with it. Whales are worth something, if they are ready to spend 200 million dollars on YOU, not after the fact.
Wvy the fuck should i buy a 3000$ package when i can buy shares in a solid company & make 100$/year from dividents? (enough to buy 2 games/year).
All devs should be excited that fps is not important anymore, 15fps is the new playable.Maybe this lecture helps them with performance:
They are looking for seasoned space game devs to come speak.
Maybe this lecture helps them with performance:
It just all fun and laughs over on reddit not matter how bad doors, ramps or grenades work is just part of the development.
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/8ypejm/me_15_minutes_ago_aw_wow_im_finally_about_to/
"With 3.3 we will get the first real planet."
Yes, that's totally going to fix the problems on the current moons. My God, these chucklefucks are insane.
Best laugh I have had all week this is just to funny.
Someone needs to do a version with them being taken from behind with a hot crumpet.
Remember when I said their entry effects were bs? They come on even when flying backwards. That means it's not based on velocity or entry dynamics at all. :emot-lol:
https://gfycat.com/TenderGlisteningLadybird
Medical JPEG ship sale coming this Friday. A ship for which no game play mechanic exists. More scope creep and technical debt.
@ 09:00
ever notice how everyone they shove in front of a camera over at CIG looks old? fair enough a holder of a senior position in a company is likely going to be of a senior age and senior people are knowledgeable for the cameras but I can't really recall ever seeing anyone at CIG who looked younger than 30. haggard old sandy is the best we get in terms of female eye-candy; i bet they actually would quite like to have a nice looking younger girl presenting things sometimes but can you imagine monkey-skeleton sandy allowing that? LOL
30 isnt old...and they have had many people under 30 on shows and in the companies.
So given that the current PU is already too big for "safe" 64bit positioning, how are they going to get Hurston into the PU without horrific and visible errors occurring in the physics and graphics?
Someone needs to do a version with them being taken from behind with a hot crumpet.
Just for StanTheMan - Hot Crumpet npc action but not as visually scaring as your one video from long ago.
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/8zxz2f/what_did_they_expect_with_the_serious_lack_of/
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/9017fe/found_these_two_lovebirds_in_the_corner/
Lol..we have probably all found ourselves on the end of such advances..
This is metaphor for Croberts trying to get more money out of Backers...
It's like they're not even pretending that there's any more gameplay on the way any more.
It's almost painful to watch now, but fascinating. How long until the next big disaster?
It's like they're not even pretending that there's any more gameplay on the way any more.
It's almost painful to watch now, but fascinating. How long until the next big disaster?
It's like they're not even pretending that there's any more gameplay on the way any more.
It's almost painful to watch now, but fascinating. How long until the next big disaster?
Yeah, it's also amazingly pathetic how RSI tries to advertise to the Elite: Dangerous crowd who they think are still fooled into SC's unrealistic expectations spilling over to impatience for ED development. The video is basically saying to bored ED players, "Look, we have cannisters too now!, we have detailed mining first!"(before ED's Beyond 3.1.3 coming in 4th quarter), "our new ED 'imperial courier' looking rip-off ship has corridors you can walk into!"It's because they're stuck on a engine that's far too old for its own good. Never mind it wasn't built for what CiG thinks it can do with it (and it really can't).
But it won't do much good. Much of the ED base who read the forums have already realized SC for the ponzi scam that it is by now. The ATV replaying fps-shooting from their arena module four years old isn't going to help either. Geez, SC even looks obsolete, lame and old compared to other fps/fpv games out there now.
More requests and theory crafting, least wait till they can get ramps and doors polished.
It's like they cannot see the lack of even to coming close to just the ks goals.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/61894/thread/idea-for-the-science-profession-which-gives-incent
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/934tj7/idea_for_the_science_profession_which_gives/
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/932ibp/do_we_know_if_underwater_exploration_and_ocean/
So they are growing, but they employee total went from 318 to 284. :)
Today's RtV with croberts was eye-popping amazing. I can't wait for the YT video. It takes us back to the good old days when croberts would straight up lie, make shit up, and we'd all collectively lol. Good times! :emot-lol:
So let me get this right: Novaquark have not only made more progress with their massive go anywhere, fly anything, BUILD anything MMO than SC. But they've done it in 4 years so far with about $12 million and 40 people?
Was the 2012 demo just a a video?
Was anything playable at that point? If not it's all just a pack of lies, from beginning to end.
And hi btw, I've been lurking here for a few years, I finally realized that the registration emails were going to spam on my email server!
I just wanted to make a quick comment about Chris Roberts talking about figuring out the ships control systems, that just blew my mind that this late in the game something so straight forward is not nailed down! This is the first thing I would have done.
Jeeze his though process is so muddled!
Was the 2012 demo just a a video? Was anything playable at that point? If not it's all just a pack of lies, from beginning to end.
And hi btw, I've been lurking here for a few years, I finally realized that the registration emails were going to spam on my email server!
Greg
Thanks for the clarification Derek,
it's funny that all CR had to do was deliver a new Wing Commander/Freelancer with upgraded graphics to be successful. He had everything he needed to entertain and build an engine that you could keep on developing and the community would have piled on the enthusiasm! that's my idea of a developers paradise... it would have been an instant hit with what he had shown.
I was also an early backer, and now looking back I have to ask was there ever any sincerity to his pitch?
Wing Commander games were my favorites (after Stellar Trek on the Apple ][)!
If you would like to see some terrible analogies that are lol and has Derek taken totally out of context this thread is for you.
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/9950p9/my_personal_opinion_about_socalled_star_citizen/
If you would like to see some terrible analogies that are lol and has Derek taken totally out of context this thread is for you.
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/9950p9/my_personal_opinion_about_socalled_star_citizen/
You need to start charging them rent.
I love how all their community "emergent gameplay" events are a variation of a) seeing how many people they can get on a server and b) going from location A to location B. Damn those Star Citizens know how to have a good time.
Oh look another warbond concept sale:
Not that they're desperate or anything, no no no.
Bind Culling....59%
OCS......27%
:emot-lol:
Will NEVER make it into 3.3.
It is ok because CIG operates using the 20 80 rule, where the first 20% of the progress takes 80% of the time.
Just stumbled upon this gem:
https://www.slant.co/topics/6480/viewpoints/6/~space-sims-on-pc~star-citizen
no pros, just cons (!)
The commercial launch of the persistent universe game will be sometime in 2016.
no pros, just cons (!)Have to correct this, for completeness sake. there _are_ pros.
:emot-lol:
Just stumbled upon this gem:
https://www.slant.co/topics/6480/viewpoints/6/~space-sims-on-pc~star-citizen
no pros, just cons (!)
This subreddit has been suspended for repeated hate crimes against video games. The moderator team has been dismissed and replaced. Contact the new moderators for more info.
r/starcitizen_refunds has been taken down and it looks hostile!
"Hate crimes against video games?" WTF? LOL!
I'd love some info from the kicked mod team what the hell happened today.
You have to hand it to CIG - they know their audience. Give them a big shiny ship to fly around and they won't notice the lack of progress on all the other promised features.
Sean said in 2016 the planet proc-gen was beyond anything anyone else had in the industry.
Did I miss proc-gen in the video and why are they are still trying to find solutions?
I skipped through the video, it all seemed pretty dull, but yes this is procedural generation. Just because you're using an algorithm (hence procedural) to generate the detail doesn't stop you from having lots of settings you can tweak to get the effect you want. Nor does it stop you from having hand-crafted areas where required. The SC tech is better than No Mans Sky to be honest, but, like the rest of the 'game' it's been designed to look pretty rather than provide any interactivity which is what a game actually needs.
The biggest issue, in my opinion, is that CR seems to prioritise visuals above all else. The less visual parts of a game: AI, physics, network code, gameplay are all ignored in favour of "fidelity".
Planets are no different in that regard. They may look pretty, and they have some pretty serious tech behind them, but what is there to actually DO other than fly around taking virtual selfies?
You know, I'd thought that the backers who own and don't own yhe new shiny shil, the Carrack, would ve pleased about it's inception. Clearly the catalogue of memes going around in this Reddit thread think otherwise.
https://reddit.app.link/YwKwveeLv4
LOL
Does anyone have any thoughts as to what kind of impact Covid-19 will have on SC? On top of all that you just know that CR/Sandi and the rest of those leeches aren't going to stop taking out their monthly slice. I can't see content being as easy to churn out with staff all working remotely so it's not like they can just mass release ships to stay afloat.
Can't believe I'm about to argue this like a shitizen BUT:
Look through the guy's past videos, he's a critic rather than a fan. I'm guessing that he's pissed at CIG for not giving a refund & losing a lot of money or something.
He sounds pretty conspiratorial and all he quotes are "anonymous" sources.
I think this needs filing in the crackpot bin, at least until it gets reported independently by someone else (Derek / media), .
BREAKING! Word is a sizable portion of that $17.5m (triggered option) was used to settle the lawsuit with Crytek. Probably because CIG didn't have the cash on hand to fork it out. If true, I'm verily shocked.
It would also explain why the Calders decided to exercise their discount share price option when in fact they gave CIG $46m back in Summer 2018 for a game was supposed (yup, it's been delayed again) to be in Beta *THIS* qtr for a 2020 release.
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/1245453181812977669
- Guessed prior to announcement that it was original investors
- Spotted that the small buy in (9250 shares) was half of Infatrade initial buy in. They got it for 52% of original price. Indus (Calders) seemingly got theirs for 85% of initial price. The discounts suggest an actioned contractual right.
- Possibly an anti-dilution strategy. IE if more share issuing on the way.
- Corresponds roughly with Erin being moved off SQ42 etc in Jan. Possibly reflects a milestone being hit (or more likely missed).
- Indus would go up to 13% from 10% it seems, diluting Chris/Erin/Ortwin etc. (Over time could reduce Chris to below 50%, but not in striking distance yet)
I have to ask, if CRoberts and CiG are fearing a controlling interest from the Calders in the form of a 51% purchase, CiG would've included a clause to limit that yeah?
If so, can the Calders use proxies or third parties to shadow purchase controlling interest thereby kicking Chris off the chairman of the board?
I have to ask, if CRoberts and CiG are fearing a controlling interest from the Calders in the form of a 51% purchase, CiG would've included a clause to limit that yeah?I doubt it. The Calders won't need a controlling interest if their goal is to get rid of or sideline croberts. They aren't amateurs.
If so, can the Calders use proxies or third parties to shadow purchase controlling interest thereby kicking Chris off the chairman of the board?
I doubt it. The Calders won't need a controlling interest if their goal is to get rid of or sideline croberts. They aren't amateurs.
It's the standard high risk, high reward investor scenario. Worst case they would get the Star Citizen and Squadron 42 brands which are worth more than the money ($46M + $17.5M) they gave to Chris. Remember that these guys are into music and movies too. I outlined it all in my 2018 blog (http://dereksmart.com/2018/12/star-citizen-a-new-dawn/).
I mean, a bunch of investors kept giving Theranos money - even after it was widely known that they whole thing as a massive scam. It's not a new thing for investors to foolishly throw money away.
@jwh1701
But again, i personally don't see them having made a great decision with their investment. It's always about expectations with investment and mine might be overly negative, their overly positive. Who's right will be seen in the future - though we all have our expectations ;)
If I were them I'd do the following:
- keep the PU as-is, but just add bug fixes and sell new ships
- Move all devs to concentrate on the single player game but scale it back to individual levels rather than a galaxy sized open world
- Recycle the art assets into different projects
- Failing all that: take all the SQ42 art work and mo-cap and make an animated film / series for Netflix
LOL i keep forgetting about Theranos and I'm faking a deep voice lady. My failure is trying to trying to think logically about investors. Even if the brand is worth more I can easily imagine is costing double or more to fix it.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch