Smart Community
Games => Star Citizen => Topic started by: dsmart on November 22, 2016, 01:51:18 PM
-
Latest from TheAgent
hello
- huge sigh of relief that star marine got up and running
- internal build shown disabled cover and many features in order to ensure less crashes
- still months away from being on live servers
- Roberts thought 2 full alien races had already been created and ready for 2.6
- minor round of leavers last Friday
- "We're in the red, every month, consistently."
- expenses, including royalties, "exceed €4m" a month
- "[CIG] is a laughing stock. [Other developers] I run into always buy me a drink because they feel sorry for me. It's a small plus next to this huge negative."
- "Fuck working through Thanksgiving."
-
And this matches with their current agressive marketing and sales ploy.
Being in the red every month means they are now using the funds that were "saved" for the months ahead, but sooner or later that too will run out.
I wonder if the first signs we will see, will be disgruntled employees receiving their wages late, if at all...
-
This is not new actually. It's been this way for sometime now. Which is why they started the aggressive sales plan to inject new money into the project. As I mentioned a few months back, they're going to have to downsize in the coming months. There is no way around it. He has blown through all the money.
-
I knew they were in trouble, but didnt know that negative balance was so long ago. I guess the piggy bank is getting more empty every month.
Also, I am still amazed at how some people part with their money so easily based on a dream, its like a snake oil salesman... except in SC you dont have the snake oil bottle that you can touch and see!
:wtchris:
-
You've been around on my blog comments/forum for sometime now, so if you recall, for 18 months now, we've all being saying the same thing - that the project was fucked, and that for some reason, the whales are just desperate. They're going to lose their money. Then the real fun begins.
-
Yup, and this time it will be REALLY ugly.
I have seen some "minor" kickstarter projects flop, and the rage and suit threaths were insane!
I can only imagine when it happens to SC, its gonna be a megaton nuke dropping in the gaming industry, and I dont know if the whole crowdfunding will ever recover. The repercussions will extend far further than only the gaming industry too.
But in all honesty, I would have loved to see a game done with ALL they "promised" as I love sci-fi games, but this project is indeed fubar and I will be here with my popcorns reading all the blogs you gonna write about it (and book hopefully).
As for The Agent, I hope he stealths very well and/or doesnt get the sack so we can keep hearing about the project woes. But I am sure as time goes, more "agents" will come out the woodwork and let us know of a few things.
-
What's going to happen is that a lot of people are going to be pissed - more than they are now. But there are going to be the usual suspects who will find a way to explain it all away, make excuses etc. Thing is, those people are anon nobodies - with the exception of some known backers (The Wuldge, Miku etc), the pro streamers etc The "at least they tried" bullshit is going to be center stage for some of them as well; and that's going to be truly hilarious.
And there are those who are going to be blame me; because somehow a single person is capable for destroying an entire multi-million dollar project. From the outside. :smuggo:
-
I have no doubt there will be lawsuits and deathtreaths. And after all the deception and lying to backers i will personally grab popcorn and laugh when it all burns down.
Especially the things that will come out about Sandi, i'll enjoy. (i can't stand that woman)
-
Yup, and this time it will be REALLY ugly.
I have seen some "minor" kickstarter projects flop, and the rage and suit threaths were insane!
I can only imagine when it happens to SC, its gonna be a megaton nuke dropping in the gaming industry, and I dont know if the whole crowdfunding will ever recover. The repercussions will extend far further than only the gaming industry too.
I am sure you are right, but a huge % of backers will walk away and keep quiet about their loss, not wanting to appear to have been so stupid.
In respect of the $4m a month spend. How about a web page with a ticker on it showing the difference between the CIG backer total and this $4mil actual spend. That might focus some minds and provide some additional amusement.
-
I am sure you are right, but a huge % of backers will walk away and keep quiet about their loss, not wanting to appear to have been so stupid.
That's exactly right. A whole heap of them will keep quiet. Others who were insulting everyone, will try to hand wave it all away. It's going to be glorious.
In respect of the $4m a month spend. How about a web page with a ticker on it showing the difference between the CIG backer total and this $4mil actual spend. That might focus some minds and provide some additional amusement.
Will never happen because the only people who have that accurate data, are CIG. Heck, even the funding chart is suspect; not to mention the citizen count which, even though it is widely known that most have multiple accounts, is still a number that they keep bringing up as some sort of glory.
-
The number of registered forum accounts for an indy development company with a game in an early alpha state is nothing short of amazing. How many accounts are there registered to EVE online? A game that's been released for over a decade where the devs actively encourage multiple accounts. Dismissing the interest shown in Star Citizen as nothing to crow about is childish and silly. The interest is amazing. Please find me another indy game with a tenth of the interest whilst in early alpha.
The funding chart may not be 100% accurate for a few reasons. Refunds not counted for example but neither does it show the tax breaks of working in the UK or the income from sponsorship deals with AMD and, more recently, nvidia or any other income form any other source. Citizens pledging for spaceships isn't their only income stream.
-
The number of registered forum accounts for an indy development company with a game in an early alpha state is nothing short of amazing. How many accounts are there registered to EVE online? A game that's been released for over a decade where the devs actively encourage multiple accounts. Dismissing the interest shown in Star Citizen as nothing to crow about is childish and silly. The interest is amazing. Please find me another indy game with a tenth of the interest whilst in early alpha.
The funding chart may not be 100% accurate for a few reasons. Refunds not counted for example but neither does it show the tax breaks of working in the UK or the income from sponsorship deals with AMD and, more recently, nvidia or any other income form any other source. Citizens pledging for spaceships isn't their only income stream.
A company with 400+ employees/contractors with 4 studios worldwide is not "indie". Get a grip.
We know the chart isn't accurate. What was your point exactly?
And where did you get info that they got funding from AMD and "more recently" nVidia. I'm dying to know.
-
The number of registered forum accounts for an indy development company with a game in an early alpha state is nothing short of amazing. How many accounts are there registered to EVE online? A game that's been released for over a decade where the devs actively encourage multiple accounts. Dismissing the interest shown in Star Citizen as nothing to crow about is childish and silly. The interest is amazing. Please find me another indy game with a tenth of the interest whilst in early alpha.
The funding chart may not be 100% accurate for a few reasons. Refunds not counted for example but neither does it show the tax breaks of working in the UK or the income from sponsorship deals with AMD and, more recently, nvidia or any other income form any other source. Citizens pledging for spaceships isn't their only income stream.
And yet ... they need more $$$ and more $$$ and more $$$$ and lots and lots and lots more time.....
Oh and where is the SQ42 progress vid now that this years major funding events" have happened ?
-
And yet ... they need more $$$ and more $$$ and more $$$$ and lots and lots and lots more time.....
Oh and where is the SQ42 progress vid now that this years major funding events" have happened ?
More money is always useful.
But...
The funding model they have is not one which encorages a swift release date
The funding model they have is not one that encourages publication of the game at all
There must have been a lot of money spent already and CIG have very little to show for it
The monetisation of the released game seems dubious as most people who have an interest in SC already have the game, already have a lot of extras you'd expect to get from microtransactions, there will be no sub fee and the pay cash for UEE seems very much like a PTW scenario, depending on how much it costs to get ships up and running.
Do we really need people pooling their 15k a week to get a Javelin up and running and then rampaging around killing newbies?
Roberts talk about a MVP also makes be wonder if CIG will be releasing paid DLC.
Of course, I also wonder if Roberts has any idea how expensive running a bunch of game servers and their associated architecture is.
There is plenty of interest in the game. But interest NOW doesn't translate onto interest in three years time.
And hopefully Elite and NMS will continue to be developed and improved and there will be other games in the genre being released as well. IW already appears to be upstaging SQ42 not to mention MEA.
Lots of choice for anyone interested in the genre.
Maybe CIG realises that so they're getting their profit now?
-
I think I could get a sub out of the SC fans.
-
Maybe CIG realises that so they're getting their profit now?
Well that's how a Ponzi scheme works. They are getting the money upfront; regardless of what they do later. Which could be nothing at all.
-
Funny to look back on these from earlier this year, people may have been in denial at the time but they're looking pretty accurate now...
http://imgur.com/a/wyBNW
-
Yeah, they've all been in denial. Just wait and see what happens after the holidays.
-
Today's Star Citizen leaks courtesy of TheAgent (https://www.reddit.com/r/Starcitizen_Leaks/comments/5jbgqa/12192016_agent_leaks/). Some I already knew and tweeted about.
- 2017 is now looking like the last full operational year for CIG (*from the perspective of 2 people who recently left)
- several office/staff moves (including the Brno move, disco lando, ben, etc) are still planned
- roberts joked at one point "the cheap labor must flow"
- the "must deliver" deadline is still march/q1 of 2017 for the sqlude
- might be much less than what was planned to be released (think less than an hour of story content, highly repetitive missions to pad playtime, grind, etc)
- sqlude will include the new footage shot earlier this year of hamill
- direction/management are being shuffled around, some people with no experience are now in charge of dozens of employees
- several employees and execs are now gone, including cashing out on promised bonuses or other monies when they left
- "If [we] didn't have money in the tank for refunds, delay. Delay, delay, delay. Promise, then delay. That was standard, yes."
- had to cut one or several major characters from SQ42
- additional mocap is required "to have the story make any sense" thanks to "constant" changes to the script
- entire maps, levels, mocap, VA, music and SFX have been thrown out, reworked and thrown out again
- what was promised for 2.6, especially networking, won't be in until late Jan/Feb 2017 at the earliest (maybe midyear)
- 3.0 networking is a massive, complete mess and won't be anywhere ready for 2017
- "They are walking the design back on a massive scale. Try and get a refund."
- ^ moma that one is for you because the guy who said it, lol, just lol
- crunch time has continued now for over six months, some people over a year
"if you're in this project for anything over $40, get a refund. get a refund like now. after 2.6 releases to the PU you're going to have a hard damn time getting anything back unless you pledged for the SQ42 package only"
-
Sounds about right.
Can we have a stab at writing Chris Robert's press release for when the whole thing goes tits up ?
We also know that if they release SQ42 in some form before the announcement, there will be plenty of people ready to make excuses as to why it is really only a chapter 1 Alpha.
-
Well, as I tweeted yesterday (https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/811352941294665729), word is that he's preparing yet another missive for the troops. I hope I'm in it. :smug:
Seriously, once the collapse comes, it's hard to imagine how they're going to twist it. One narrative that springs to mind is they will say the refunds prevented CIG from completing the vision, and they did the right thing to issue them. :stonk:
-
Today's Star Citizen leaks courtesy of TheAgent (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3800238&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=366#post468128220).
- backers will be able to "early access" (alpha test) the sqlude
- this will be considered the "preview" release version (mvp I guess)
- this will also count as the first episode
- in order to alpha test other episodes/content, backers will have to pay
- SQ42 is "tied deeply" into SC techwise/network
- currently no plans for completely offline play
- ships, skins and other cash shop items cross over game modes
- "original vision" (internally called OV or CV?) candidate sometime in 2019 with promised sq42 feature list
and in wtf news
SQ42 is cancelled. It has become a series of single player missions folded directly into Star Citizen. This acts as the tutorial and early character creation. Any other news about Squadron 42 is fake or uninformed. This change has been considered since late-2015 and the final decision was made mid-2016.
and since this is all p dire have some more leaks from 100% confirmed sources
- 3.0 will release sometime in late Feb 2017
- all 3 episodes of SQ42 will be out before citcon
- 4.0 is coming along very well, I've played it several times and its amazing
- planetary landings in cities will make you want to jizz over a custom built star citizen branded hotas
- procgen tech is unlike anything anyone has ever seen ever by anyone
- I hate chris roberts
- I am derek smart
- I collect paychecks from EA
- I am so gay
- I only play on consoles because I don't own a PC
- I am jealous of everyone at CIG/RSI
- I won't know what to do when chris roberts proves me and my ilk totally wong [sic]
-
...and the "preview" release of SQ42 touted as MVP would allow CR to claim he has delivered on the backers pledges ?
-
Lol they've got to be careful recall what CR stated 'SQ42' consisted of @ GC & CC '60 missions' etc. :-)
Produce considerably less, false advertising.
-
Well look at what they released as Star Marine; which is barely a skeleton of what they promised. So basically, like Arena Commander, it's probably not going to get any meaningful content or updates down the road.
-
Lol they've got to be careful recall what CR stated 'SQ42' consisted of @ GC & CC '60 missions' etc. :-)
Produce considerably less, false advertising.
58 missions of "Kill 20 Space Rats" will not take long to get in "game"
-
They will cut into that too or as TheAgent leaked, they may even say what backers have now is StarCitzen AND S42 and it has been here all along . We don't want to annoy CR do we.
-
After the uproar that followed Star Marine, causing them to bring it back, it is doubtful that they will pull that stung with SQ42. Worse case scenario, it will end up being another game mod within the PU, just like AC and SM.
-
TheAgent is back with more (outrageous) leaks:
- sq42 is totally folded into the PU (think gamemode like AC or SM)
- sqlude "grossly mismanaged" and not due until 2018 or very late 2017
- "A working 3.0 is years away."
- features "are being cut like sliced bread" in order to hit this year
- "Biggest failure? Communication."
- more mocap for integral roles
- "Current funding is completely insufficient. Backers need to reach deep if they want to see a beta release."
There's a certain sense of dread here. We get yelled at, told to continue even though we know it's wrong. We do everything we are told, like good little soldiers. Meanwhile the generals are drinking champagne and laughing as the bombs fall.
-
"A working 3.0 is years away."
OMG, that is sad
:sandance:
-
Years away? Wonder how long the backers will keep funding them?
The quote about champagne makes me think CR and his small family don't really see how frustrated players are. If true that is amazingly sad!
If anyone doing a betting chart put me down for 100 in 2025. :lol:
-
Years away? Wonder how long the backers will keep funding them?
The quote about champagne makes me think CR and his small family don't really see how frustrated players are. If true that is amazingly sad!
If anyone doing a betting chart put me down for 100 in 2025. :lol:
Chris doesn´t know how to play his own videogame. Do you think he also sees how frustrated players are?
:lesnick:
-
Years away? Wonder how long the backers will keep funding them?
The quote about champagne makes me think CR and his small family don't really see how frustrated players are. If true that is amazingly sad!
If anyone doing a betting chart put me down for 100 in 2025. :lol:
Chris doesn´t know how to play his own videogame. Do you think he also sees how frustrated players are?
:lesnick:
LOL yep you got me there. So true!
-
EightAce (an account we suspect is used by various people), one of the original leakers, is back with this gem over on SA (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3800238&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=613#post469353833)
Fellow commandos. Prepare yourselves for a hilarious announcement at the end of March /start of April. A Stimperial address is planned to explain where sq42 is , or indeed isnt. Its going to be even better than 'You've had it all along stop fucking whining'
I don't even know what to believe anymore. For one thing, there is a very good chance that the much rumored major layoffs are coming. They already started this back in Q4/16, even as some people left, or were converted from employee to contractor status.
I had written before that making SQ42 a game mode/module like the hangar, arena commander, star marine etc, makes the most sense at this point. So maybe that's what they're going to be announcing; though I doubt it. We just have to wait and see.
-
Rofl They need 3+ months (More accurately 4) to figure out how to try to bs their way onward? <smh>
-
EightAce (an account we suspect is used by various people), one of the original leakers, is back with this gem over on SA (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3800238&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=613#post469353833)
Fellow commandos. Prepare yourselves for a hilarious announcement at the end of March /start of April. A Stimperial address is planned to explain where sq42 is , or indeed isnt. Its going to be even better than 'You've had it all along stop fucking whining'
I don't even know what to believe anymore. For one thing, there is a very good chance that the much rumored major layoffs are coming. They already started this back in Q4/16, even as some people left, or were converted from employee to contractor status.
I had written before that making SQ42 a game mode/module like the hangar, arena commander, star marine etc, makes the most sense at this point. So maybe that's what they're going to be announcing; though I doubt it. We just have to wait and see.
I honestly don't see a legal way for them to just roll SQ42 into the main game similar to hangar or AC once they separated the games and started selling it as a completely separate "game". Wouldn't that essentially make it false advertising/fraudulent sales, no matter how much sense it would make? Or am I missing something.
-
I suspect they'll turn s42 into a post release DLC, saving the so called up coming sqlude as 'right about to be ready' so they keep the backers infuriating at low. They might also officially announce the whole lot of modules-shits already existing, is StarCitizen in its final form. Imo.
Indeed they can't take the risk to 'merge' s42 into PU or that would be a clear proof of fraudulent advertising. (Though honnestly, with the many tricks they've used so far I dont know why they are not facing justice yet.)
-
I honestly don't see a legal way for them to just roll SQ42 into the main game similar to hangar or AC once they separated the games and started selling it as a completely separate "game". Wouldn't that essentially make it false advertising/fraudulent sales, no matter how much sense it would make? Or am I missing something.
Actually they can do it; and it would be perfectly legal. I just wrote about that (http://dereksmart.com/forums/topic/star-citizen-musings/#post-5222).
-
EightAce (an account we suspect is used by various people), one of the original leakers, is back with this gem over on SA (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3800238&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=613#post469353833)
Fellow commandos. Prepare yourselves for a hilarious announcement at the end of March /start of April. A Stimperial address is planned to explain where sq42 is , or indeed isnt. Its going to be even better than 'You've had it all along stop fucking whining'
I don't even know what to believe anymore. For one thing, there is a very good chance that the much rumored major layoffs are coming. They already started this back in Q4/16, even as some people left, or were converted from employee to contractor status.
I had written before that making SQ42 a game mode/module like the hangar, arena commander, star marine etc, makes the most sense at this point. So maybe that's what they're going to be announcing; though I doubt it. We just have to wait and see.
I’ve been asked on Discord for my take on the most recent developments and leak from EightAce from a super backer (> $10k) who seems to have concerns recently, plus three smaller backers. Initially it was difficult to come up with a somewhat balanced response, hopefully this should lend some credibility that not everything is quite as straight forward to development as CIG is making out and clear up how it’s imported. Decided to post it on here instead of repeating the same subject to individual folk on Discord.
In the event these leaks do marry up to, fact as of say March / April time then there is more concern on delivery than just the PU itself.
What I think Derek Smart was hinting at in his latest blog, sorry if I’m barking up the wrong tree but I get the impression that some of the easy work has been done but they’re stumbling at the hard / difficult task at fitting it all together. No so much as just the engine anymore if not the actual gameplay and everything else in between, instead they’re switching focus to non-important deliverables like the O2 oxygen system which should be considered less important or a lower priority.
Disclaimer
When it comes to theory crafting we all have our own take and biases on all news that comes from CIG or from leaks and it’s important to identify that to take it into account.
Coming from a gaming background and as a cloud architect I have my own bias in that I do not agree with CIGs approach, all other matters aside and on the bench until my view on Derek Smart as below.
My take
Now the difficult case may be that any announcement CIG will promote MVP (minimum viable product) or that a large section of the current offering indeed forms part of the final product. I think in this case it’s not really set in stone as they count literally announce anything and we don’t have specific data or knowledge on what is going to be specifically said. If anything it will be complete speculation on my part as I do not have all the facts, only indicators which is not the same thing.
Indications would suggest that it would point to bad news based on the current state of the engine and game mechanics on 2.6.1, and the general slow pace of development. Considering all the fighting CIG are doing locally in Manchester which you are now painfully aware of, that all critics of CIG don’t come or root from Derek Smart. He is not the proverbial “bogey man” and certainly does not have the power to influence other companies near CIG locally nor ability to slow down development. My take is that Star Citizen is a bad kick starter due to massive scope creep and that CIG do not have the business acuity or skills to run a large crowd funded game development studio.
My narrative would be to request a refund, however my urge to any Star Citizen backer is to look at the facts. How long has the project being going, versus what is the current state of the project. Are you happy with 2.6.1? If you are then jolly good, if not then look at getting a refund. This is not about the current state of the game, it’s where you will think the game will be in three months? Based on the current release cycle, do you really see 3.0 being released in three months?
Derek Smart
I was also asked my opinion of Derek Smart repeatedly, I think although he can come across as very strong and very abrasive which I think is part of an act or persona on his part, his heart seems to be in the right place. Personified reactions of Derek Smart on Star Citizen and CIG aside, I think he does deliberately push the proverbial buttons of groups like /r/dereksmart and his detractors and he knows how to get them to bite “aka 2 weeks, 1 month, 3 months”.
If anything the responses to Derek Smart by detractors do more to leverage and help Derek Smart’s viewpoint than Derek could reach himself. If anything broadcasting what Derek Smart is doing on a tweet to tweet basis only enhances his standing and promoting his viewpoint as a legitimate source for criticism of the Star Citizen project and CIG. What people forget is Derek Smart is one person and there are a collective group of people lashing out against Derek everytime he mentions Star Citizen.
It’s not what detractors see; it’s what other people see outside the Star Citizen group. Good point is if any normal, rational human being looked at /r/dereksmart, outside of CIG / Star Citizen Universe, what would they think about Star Citizen? If anything Derek should put /r/dereksmart on his payroll as they’ve done more to promote the idea of Star Citizen as a cult, hate group, Star Citizen as an ineffective product than anything Derek Smart could ever say. This also expands to /r/starcitizen, Chris Roberts official response to The Escapist Article and even the CIG forums. Basically Derek Smart baits them into lashing out and recording / reporting his views.
As an outsider, my initial take on CIG and Star Citizen was very different – that was as a potential employee. It was only until viewing /r/dereksmart that I reached out to Derek Smart’s forums in the first place. What I’ll be interested in and some backers should watch, is if this post ends up on /r/dereksmart or not, bearing in mind it has not been written by Derek Smart and only relates to Star Citizen / CIG, although I am seen as a detractor of Star Citizen / CIG / Chris Roberts.
Remember this all started when Derek Smart apparently broken the rules and got a refund for promoting his LoD game series on the Star Citizen forums despite there being no posts from Derek there.
TL;DR is /r/dereksmart played right into Derek Smart’s hands by legitimising talk on the toxic star citizen community by doing the very same thing he wanted them to.
-
My Take
CR is and always has been a terrible Project Manager.
People generally do what they say they are going to do. CR has said this is an ongoing open ended project - effectively. And that is what we have got.
CR is an accomplished liar
He will lie to get what he wants and he is sufficiently enamoured with his own success to have put it down to talent rather than luck. There are plenty of sycophants around to massage his ego.
Most gamers look at the pretty pictures and are easily swayed by the romance of having a ship to explore the universe in - they don't exercise due diligence. They don't bother to try and understand the technical details involved in this or any other subject.
Whilst CIG are apparently afloat there will be plenty of little people willing to give them $35-60 to become a Backer. There will be plenty of media outlets willing to keep the dream alive and misreport the facts.
CIG can upsell those new Backers whilst the ship appears largely afloat.
Citizens are very forgiving because it costs them a lot of emotional pain to admit failure
UNLESS the whole thing goes belly up from lack of funds or a major scandal/legal case etc, CR probably has 3-5 years good will left to deliver something akin to an MVP before he will see most Citziens turn on him.
Many Citizens will move on or wait and see before they become vocal detractors.
DS
Hard working, friendly rational guy with an impressive intellect and years of experience relevant to SC.
The world is full of thick people and baying cowards - it is also full of bright people weighed down by their biology in the face of facts. So of course we have Shitizens. DS is experienced enough to deal with that and that includes sometimes being able to turn it to his advantage.
DS has as much right as anyone to promote his opinions and ideas, he is willing to take the risks and happy to reap the benefits. What he is doing is immensely valuable and eminently reasonable.
-
My Take
CR is and always has been a terrible Project Manager.
People generally do what they say they are going to do. CR has said this is an ongoing open ended project - effectively. And that is what we have got.
CR is an accomplished liar
He will lie to get what he wants and he is sufficiently enamoured with his own success to have put it down to talent rather than luck. There are plenty of sycophants around to massage his ego.
Most gamers look at the pretty pictures and are easily swayed by the romance of having a ship to explore the universe in - they don't exercise due diligence. They don't bother to try and understand the technical details involved in this it any other subject.
Whilst CIG are apparently afloat there will be plenty of little people willing to give them $35-60 to become a Backer. There will be plenty of media outlets willing to keep the dream alive and misreport the facts.
CIG can upsell those new Backers whilst the ship appears largely afloat.
Citizens are very forgiving because it costs them a lot of emotional pain to admit failure
UNLESS the whole thing goes belly up from lack of funds or a major scandal/legal case etc, CR probably has 3-5 years good will left to deliver something akin to an MVP before he will see most Citziens turn on him.
Many Citizens will move on or wait and see before they become vocal detractors.
DS
Hard working, friendly rational guy with an impressive intellect and years of experience relevant to SC.
The world is full of thick people and baying cowards - it is also full of bright people weighed down by their biology in the face of facts. So of course we have Shitizens. DS is experienced enough to deal with that and that includes sometimes being able to turn it to his advantage.
DS has as much right as anyone to promote his opinions and ideas, he is willing to take the risks and happy to reap the benefits. What he is doing is immensely valuable and eminently reasonable.
Well said Stan, but i dont think CR has 3-5 years left, I would say max of 2 yrs before the foundations crumble. if he doesnt deliver to what he promised blow back will be too hard even 6 months from now. I had only invested 60$ in this and thought that i would wait and see what happens but i was getting too distracted and angry because of his incompetance thats why i got a refund now i am not invested in this shitshow so i am free of any tension brewing coz of this scene.
So if a backer like me who has next to nothing invested had enough of this bullshit and wanted to leave than think about people who have invested more would go crazy over the next 6 months.
-
We've been seeing more and more whales backers pulling out lately. A year ago, seeing a 2k$ backer pulling out was uncommon . Now it's like every day has its xK$ backer leaving. I don't think CIG can even sustain for long with this burn rate. But they could as well be keepin downgrading while saving on the appareances untill there's no one left but CR and SG. Wich would take a long time on other hand .
I don't remember where but someone has predicted the falling down of SC might as well slowly fade into oblivion, taking with it the few hundreds of cultist backers still attached to it.
Edit : I just realized SC is nothing but appearances , so the breaking point is when they cannot sustain these appearances anymore. So basically they just need to have enough to pay one or two graphist dudes to play with photoshop and some jpegs lol, one or two developers to mess with cryengine mods and plugins, and some IT guys to keep the servers running. Ho I forgot they need a little more so they can pay their scam head crew.
-
We've been seeing more and more whales backers pulling out lately. A year ago, seeing a 2k$ backer pulling out was uncommon . Now it's like every day has its xK$ backer leaving. I don't think CIG can even sustain for long with this burn rate. But they could as well be keepin downgrading while saving on the appareances untill there's no one left but CR and SG. Wich would take a long time on other hand .
I don't remember where but someone has predicted the falling down of SC might as well slowly fade into oblivion, taking with it the few hundreds of cultist backers still attached to it.
Edit : I just realized SC is nothing but appearances , so the breaking point is when they cannot sustain these appearances anymore. So basically they just need to have enough to pay one or two graphist dudes to play with photoshop and some jpegs lol, one or two developers to mess with cryengine mods and plugins, and some IT guys to keep the servers running. Ho I forgot they need a little more so they can pay their scam head crew.
They can sustain a $2k refund a day as long as they get more $ elsewhere.
New backers are not looking at the facts they are looking at the pretty pictures.
If they are looking at the facts then they are buying in in any case.
-
TheAgent is back with more leaks.
If you don't believe any of it; believe one thing: the part about the planet being #justanothermodule because I have written extensively about this in the past, even sparred with one of their devs Ben Parry over this very notion of it being a level, rather than a seamless transition like what they have shown in their tech demos.
Also, as to the company mentioned, that would probably be Behavior Interactive. I wrote about this specifically a few days ago (http://dereksmart.com/forums/topic/star-citizen-musings/#post-5222). Moon Collider left about a year ago.
- 3.0 will arrive this year
- in the first release, there will be a planetary landing mode accessible from the main screen (or space stations)
- you will not be able to fly down to the planet from space
- there will be rovers akin to the mako for ground exploration
- desert planet populated with several small oasis
- playable space is less than 100km2
- 3.0 will include a new player inventory
- no new ship inventory in this release
- mining will be available
- player to player trading is not available in this release
- crafting will not be in this release
- the planet will only hold 32 players
- the planet will be instanced
- currently no ground combat npcs or other life
- the planet will not track changes made by players
- this will be the only planet available for this release
- will feature 3 distinct, hand crafted outposts with new quests
- players will not be able to go underwater (unsure if this means no water or that they can't get in water or what)
- sqlude has been pushed to q1 2018
- mocap cleanup still ongoing with "years" of manpower still to come
- many npcs and quests from sq42 have been migrated to SC, as SC specific quests (3.0 planet will feature these)
He got this in email along with that:
What I sent you is what [name] considers the barest of bones release of 3.0. Currently, in order to hit [name]'s release to coincide ship sales, this is what we have to put out. I am beyond hopeful more progress will be made before we release this to backers. Planetary landings are posing extremely problematic at the moment, as well as AI. We were left last year with almost zero progress on AI thanks to [contracted company] but have since moved all work in-house. Most contracted studios are now gone replaced by in-house people.
I want to mention the negativity about the project. I don't know if you'll post this. I want to say many of us here believe in what we are doing. We are not relaxing in hot tubs surrounded by bikini-clad girls, smoking fat-cat cigars lit with backer money. We work very, very hard. Sixty hours a week sometimes. We try to breathe life into this game. We are not a faceless zombie army of programmers and artists. We are people. I want everyone to remember that.
We do understand the patience of people is wearing thing. Mistakes, sometimes big mistakes, have been made. I am not privy to every piece of information regarding those. We know they've happened. We don't stop working. We don't stop trying. We guide and mentor and continue to strive to make the best of bad situations.
We are years out from a full release. Please try to understand that doesn't mean never. Backers started this journey with us and I hope they finish it with us.
-
Doesn't Behavior Interactive only do art? I believe CIG's AI was instead outsourced (in house now (Frankfort)) to Kythera.
http://www.bhvr.com/portfolio-item/star-citizen/
For this very ambitious project, Chris Roberts (Wing Commander) asked Behaviour Interactive to take care of the art for Star Citizen and make sure the quality of every graphic element reaches a level of quality never seen before. The result is a breathtaking universe that already generated more than $73 million dollars.
-
TheAgent is back with more leaks.
It make sense that they would try and get 3.0 out this year and in time for ship sales
It makes sense that they would reel back in on the MMO such that it is instanced, largely devoid of anything to do and have no flying down to the planet surface in your/a ship.
I love the ambition....we were mining on "planets" almost 20 years ago in MMO's, we had more people in an "instance", we had kill 10 rats missions, we had player inventory.
Nothing here but shattered dreams...
The sentiment of the staffer in the email is fine. I think most of us know it isn't the regular staff that are taking the piss.
-
Doesn't Behavior Interactive only do art? I believe CIG's AI was instead outsourced (in house now (Frankfort)) to Kythera.
http://www.bhvr.com/portfolio-item/star-citizen/
For this very ambitious project, Chris Roberts (Wing Commander) asked Behaviour Interactive to take care of the art for Star Citizen and make sure the quality of every graphic element reaches a level of quality never seen before. The result is a breathtaking universe that already generated more than $73 million dollars.
Yeah, that was a typo. Also AI was also handled by Moon Collider, who apparently exited the project over a year ago.
BI also do entire games btw; so they probably did work on the AI.
-
Nah Behavior is a full studio. They've worked on tons of stuff, including Fallout Shelter, Rango: The Video Game, and their latest game Dead By Daylight which is a very buggy (but fun) asymm 4v1 murder simulator that honestly feels like it should be in early access.
-
BI also do entire games btw; so they probably did work on the AI.
If t'was a typo then why in your original missive you claimed that the company was Behavior Interactive. Also probably doesn't seem like the correct word to secure your claim on this 100% genuine leak.
-
BI also do entire games btw; so they probably did work on the AI.
If t'was a typo then why in your original missive you claimed that the company was Behavior Interactive. Also probably doesn't seem like the correct word to secure your claim on this 100% genuine leak.
This is what I wrote in my linked post:
And that’s precisely why they have not only been downsizing gradually (lots of departures in Q4/16 and in the new year) without making any noise (rumors are that Behavior Interactive is the latest third-party studio no longer working on the project) , but also said to be converting some employees to contractors.
This is what TheAgent posted
We were left last year with almost zero progress on AI thanks to [contracted company] but have since moved all work in-house. Most contracted studios are now gone replaced by in-house people.
The typo (in my forum post) was about naming Behavior Interactive as the company developing the AI. That would be either Moon Collider or Kythera; even though, like Illfonic, BI are also a full service studio, capable of developing AI for a game. Based on the leak post about, it stands to reason that one of these three companies - no longer on the project - was responsible for all or part of the AI work.
And "100% genuine leak" are your words, not mine. I never made those claims. TheAgent only stated
-
TheAgent is back with an email leak (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3800238&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=686#post469711530)
If you are asking then yes. We do use internal accounts to prop up funding numbers. These are not backer only funds. We are encouraged to buy ship packages on a bi-weekly basis. Any monies that come to the coffers via internal employee accounts are counted into that number. This includes managers who end up pledging with caveats. These can be sold personally to third parties without supervision. Large packages are sold at discounted amounts to [employees, contracted employees, certain backers and streamers] for heavy discounts. The full amount is represented in the Funding Tracker.
Not sure I believe what TheAgent was told, but it makes sense that they're selling ships and packages at discounts to certain parties. Too bad we can't prove it. And the only way to prove it is if i) someone spills the beans ii) it comes out during the discovery process in a lawsuit
As someone else on SA said (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3800238&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=687#post469712374)
This would make a lot of sense.
There was talk awhile back of how streamers always had $600+ chariots to just give away and how the grey market always has stock of any of the ultra limited one time only ships that cost the most.
Some of the grey market stores being CIG workers would explain a ton of things.
It's impossible to prove too since you could never get an accurate survey of the quantities of the limited ships, or really even find out if Manager #3 was selling $5,000 JPEGs while they weren't available for retail sale, and then more of them got released at a later date.
Then there's this. (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3800238&pagenumber=687&perpage=40#post469715170)
I always assumed that steamers were getting paid in ships that they could sell under the table so that they could keep claiming that they are not sponsored by CIG. Crobberts can create a ship out of thin air by moving some numbers around in a database and presto, a streamer has a 300 dollar ship for doing a few hours of talking about how great star citizen is. They probably just flip it on the grey market as fast as they can because anybody playing star citizen for that amount of time has probably figured out that the game is an irredeemable pile of shit that won't ever be fun. It's essentially work, not fun.
But now we have the wrinkle of employees getting in on the action. Even if you sell at a 25% loss, a big enough discount could still generate decent amount of money at high volumes. If you get a 50% discount if you buy, say, a few completionist packages like someone did earlier this week, you could sell them at a net profit of a few grand. And then you could keep repeating the cycle bi-weekly until the bottom drops out and you're left with 30k worth of ships with no game and no suckers to unload them on.
Or even better, say you had a bunch of Swedish Mafia cash you needed laundered. Buy a bunch of ships at a discount with accounts from employees in Brno, flip them on the grey market for nice clean profit. And CIG looks like it's operating in the black! Everybody wins! (Not the IRS though)
-
If this is true it's far worse than anything EA could come up with ...
-
TheAgent is back with an email leak (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3800238&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=686#post469711530)
Did they somehow block non-member access to the SA forums in the past few days? Until recently, I could view the threads there, but now I get a "To view… you need to register an account" page?
-
TheAgent is back with an email leak (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3800238&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=686#post469711530)
Did they somehow block non-member access to the SA forums in the past few days? Until recently, I could view the threads there, but now I get a "To view… you need to register an account" page?
Lowtax is changing read only to no access for a few weeks to get more forum accounts :) (he does this a few times in a year lasts 1-2 weeks up to a month)
-
Latest TheAgent FUD :vince:
- supposedly CIG working on something "exceptional" for E3
- Roberts has been MIA the majority of the year
- many design and gameplay changes are stalled due to lack of his approval
- since leads left or were fired, almost all decisions sit with Roberts
- CIG is using unpaid interns to help code and complete artwork
- several backers have been selected to help the design team
- special select backers were recently invited for an "appreciation" meeting/dinner
- unsure what the criteria was, but one backer had purchased over $100,000 worth of ships
- planetary module still coming along
- loading screen transition still in
- atmo fighting "in discussion"
- Star Marine a failure, Roberts unhappy with it entirely
- Roberts "imagined a different game" and blame devs that left for problems
- top execs blame recent bad funding on backers unwilling to help more
- "It's like giving a cat an Easy-Bake oven and expecting it to cater the Royal Wedding" on current tools
- "Bullies playing with the nerdy kids toys" on new mocap
-
Latest TheAgent FUD :vince:
- supposedly CIG working on something "exceptional" for E3
- Roberts has been MIA the majority of the year
- many design and gameplay changes are stalled due to lack of his approval
- since leads left or were fired, almost all decisions sit with Roberts
- CIG is using unpaid interns to help code and complete artwork
- several backers have been selected to help the design team
- special select backers were recently invited for an "appreciation" meeting/dinner
- unsure what the criteria was, but one backer had purchased over $100,000 worth of ships
- planetary module still coming along
- loading screen transition still in
- atmo fighting "in discussion"
- Star Marine a failure, Roberts unhappy with it entirely
- Roberts "imagined a different game" and blame devs that left for problems
- top execs blame recent bad funding on backers unwilling to help more
- "It's like giving a cat an Easy-Bake oven and expecting it to cater the Royal Wedding" on current tools
- "Bullies playing with the nerdy kids toys" on new mocap
All these points actually sound reasonable for a change. Could absolutely be possible which makes it only that more sad :(
E3 again?? how about not working on something amazing to showcase like the scripted demo on CitCon last year but actually finish up 3.0?
CR has been MIA pretty much every year so far.
Sadly enough, I can actually believe all these points....
@dsmart but if this is all a big scam, how to you incorporate 300+ employees into your scheme? Thats the biggest blocker for me right now in roder to believe it. That this whole thing is fishy as fuck is no question at all, but a big scam with 300+ people who put their careers on the line? doubt it....
-
Latest TheAgent FUD :vince:
- supposedly CIG working on something "exceptional" for E3
- Roberts has been MIA the majority of the year
- many design and gameplay changes are stalled due to lack of his approval
- since leads left or were fired, almost all decisions sit with Roberts
- CIG is using unpaid interns to help code and complete artwork
- several backers have been selected to help the design team
- special select backers were recently invited for an "appreciation" meeting/dinner
- unsure what the criteria was, but one backer had purchased over $100,000 worth of ships
- planetary module still coming along
- loading screen transition still in
- atmo fighting "in discussion"
- Star Marine a failure, Roberts unhappy with it entirely
- Roberts "imagined a different game" and blame devs that left for problems
- top execs blame recent bad funding on backers unwilling to help more
- "It's like giving a cat an Easy-Bake oven and expecting it to cater the Royal Wedding" on current tools
- "Bullies playing with the nerdy kids toys" on new mocap
All these points actually sound reasonable for a change. Could absolutely be possible which makes it only that more sad :(
E3 again?? how about not working on something amazing to showcase like the scripted demo on CitCon last year but actually finish up 3.0?
CR has been MIA pretty much every year so far.
Sadly enough, I can actually believe all these points....
@dsmart but if this is all a big scam, how to you incorporate 300+ employees into your scheme? Thats the biggest blocker for me right now in roder to believe it. That this whole thing is fishy as fuck is no question at all, but a big scam with 300+ people who put their careers on the line? doubt it....
It's not this kind of Scam, basically there are companies (alot) and they have people to work for them that get paid.
These people get their missive (do 3D interiour, do programming etc.)
The Scam is to sell stuff to people that are near to impossible (and 100% impossible with this team) to do just to make money.
The Scam is also saying that 3.0 release goal is dec 2016 to hype sales when the R&D for the desired technology hasn't even started.
The Scam is selling a DLC for big money (ship hull), nerving it and sell a DLC with almost exact the same unnerved stats 6 months later for more money.
The Scam is producing big Visuals like Ship Ads with features no where to be seen years after.
The Scam is showing off great features in a cryengine editor (sometimes scripted like @citcon > faded out) which are not developed nor build into the client years after.
The Scam is selling basic features of a game engine as new invented technology by CIG.
The Scam is buying their own assets to push the funding tracker for the illusion of steady cash flow (the tracker almost never went under 20k daily)
This is all to build hype and expectations only to keep the money rolling in. By default overhyping leads to fail - everytime.
This time due to extreme sunk cost fallacy and overhyping we have a very aggressive and toxic community and instead to manage the community expectations they are firing them up more and more.
This is not comparable to other projects where just a handful spend > $200 or more - in star citizen the majority is in for over $200 for a game ...
-
[...]
- atmo fighting "in discussion"
[...]
And the Citizens are discussing how they want to attack base stations on planets with their ships - feature creep like this in every corner
-
Latest TheAgent FUD :vince:
- supposedly CIG working on something "exceptional" for E3
- Roberts has been MIA the majority of the year
- many design and gameplay changes are stalled due to lack of his approval
- since leads left or were fired, almost all decisions sit with Roberts
- CIG is using unpaid interns to help code and complete artwork
- several backers have been selected to help the design team
- special select backers were recently invited for an "appreciation" meeting/dinner
- unsure what the criteria was, but one backer had purchased over $100,000 worth of ships
- planetary module still coming along
- loading screen transition still in
- atmo fighting "in discussion"
- Star Marine a failure, Roberts unhappy with it entirely
- Roberts "imagined a different game" and blame devs that left for problems
- top execs blame recent bad funding on backers unwilling to help more
- "It's like giving a cat an Easy-Bake oven and expecting it to cater the Royal Wedding" on current tools
- "Bullies playing with the nerdy kids toys" on new mocap
All these points actually sound reasonable for a change. Could absolutely be possible which makes it only that more sad :(
E3 again?? how about not working on something amazing to showcase like the scripted demo on CitCon last year but actually finish up 3.0?
CR has been MIA pretty much every year so far.
Sadly enough, I can actually believe all these points....
@dsmart but if this is all a big scam, how to you incorporate 300+ employees into your scheme? Thats the biggest blocker for me right now in roder to believe it. That this whole thing is fishy as fuck is no question at all, but a big scam with 300+ people who put their careers on the line? doubt it....
It's not this kind of Scam, basically there are companies (alot) and they have people to work for them that get paid.
These people get their missive (do 3D interiour, do programming etc.)
The Scam is to sell stuff to people that are near to impossible (and 100% impossible with this team) to do just to make money.
The Scam is also saying that 3.0 release goal is dec 2016 to hype sales when the R&D for the desired technology hasn't even started.
The Scam is selling a DLC for big money (ship hull), nerving it and sell a DLC with almost exact the same unnerved stats 6 months later for more money.
The Scam is producing big Visuals like Ship Ads with features no where to be seen years after.
The Scam is showing off great features in a cryengine editor (sometimes scripted like @citcon > faded out) which are not developed nor build into the client years after.
The Scam is selling basic features of a game engine as new invented technology by CIG.
The Scam is buying their own assets to push the funding tracker for the illusion of steady cash flow (the tracker almost never went under 20k daily)
This is all to build hype and expectations only to keep the money rolling in. By default overhyping leads to fail - everytime.
This time due to extreme sunk cost fallacy and overhyping we have a very aggressive and toxic community and instead to manage the community expectations they are firing them up more and more.
This is not comparable to other projects where just a handful spend > $200 or more - in star citizen the majority is in for over $200 for a game ...
Thanks for the clarification. Makes sense. Misunderstood what scam was meant directly .... reading this just makes me even more sad...
-
@dsmart but if this is all a big scam, how to you incorporate 300+ employees into your scheme? Thats the biggest blocker for me right now in roder to believe it. That this whole thing is fishy as fuck is no question at all, but a big scam with 300+ people who put their careers on the line? doubt it....
Everything about this project is a lie.
For the record, this is the contractor/employee count from last Dec
(http://i.imgur.com/5fqTqpt.jpg)
Quite a few of those have left.
And any experienced gamedev who knows anything about the biz, knows that you don't start an indie company to build a crowd-funded project - then go spend money on 4 studios around the world. There is no plausible reason for them to all exist. Other than the fact that F42-UK is the one he built for his brother and friends (Elms and Derek Senior); F42-GER is built from poached CryTek devs; Austin is where they started...until Chris & Sandi decided to set up the base of ops in CA where they can continue to try and rekindle their failed movie careers.
It is important to note that throughout history, vast corps with numerous offices and employees have been shutdown due to fraud. It's irrelevant how many people they claim to have.
Anyone who thinks that having offices and employees makes it less of a scam, is i) an idiot ii) precisely the type of person that's funding said scam.
It's a scam. And someone is going to go to jail over it.