Post by: dsmart on November 22, 2016, 04:57:33 PM
Inside Star Citizen (http://www.kotaku.co.uk/tag/inside-star-citizen/) - Kotaku UK articles (x5)
Inside the hardcore fanbase keeping Star Citizen alive (http://www.pcgamer.com/inside-the-hardcore-fanbase-keeping-the-star-citizen-dream-alive/) - PC Gamer
I told my Star Citizen fleet to finance a new car (https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/i-sold-my-star-citizen-fleet-to-finance-a-new-car) - Star Citizen backer
Post by: dsmart on November 24, 2016, 09:49:16 AM
http://christiantimes.com/article/star-citizen-latest-update-want-to-see-the-progress-of-the-games-development-rsi-decides-to-keep-it-public/66783.htm (http://christiantimes.com/article/star-citizen-latest-update-want-to-see-the-progress-of-the-games-development-rsi-decides-to-keep-it-public/66783.htm)
http://www.webtechglobal.co.uk/global/developers-spotlight/letter-chris-roberts-brains-star-citizen/ (http://www.webtechglobal.co.uk/global/developers-spotlight/letter-chris-roberts-brains-star-citizen/)
http://www.gameskinny.com/uc54o/10-reasons-why-star-citizen-will-blow-you-away/11 (http://www.gameskinny.com/uc54o/10-reasons-why-star-citizen-will-blow-you-away/11)
https://niume.com/pages/post/index.php?postID=142286 (https://niume.com/pages/post/index.php?postID=142286)
Post by: dsmart on November 25, 2016, 11:44:52 AM
Post by: dsmart on November 26, 2016, 05:27:17 AM
"Hello, very cool blog. Do you think Crowdfunding might overtake normal publishing? You think Star Citizen crowdfunded success can be replicated or is just a one off thing? (http://askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/147346281049/hello-very-cool-blog-do-you-think-crowdfunding)"
Post by: dsmart on November 28, 2016, 08:59:43 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/46ItYbb.png)
Articles which have glowing praise for the project and creator, are somehow subversive attempts by third-parties. :smugjones:
It's amazing. :doh:
Post by: dsmart on December 17, 2016, 12:06:22 PM
Star Citizen’s holiday stream disappoints with no Squadron 42 but it is amusing (http://www.pcinvasion.com/star-citizen-holiday-stream-squadron-42)
Star Citizen holiday videos released separately, holiday stream video removed (http://www.pcinvasion.com/star-citizen-videos-separately-holiday)
Post by: dsmart on December 19, 2016, 10:47:01 AM
An early version of Star Marine, Star Citizen's FPS, is out now (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-12-19-an-early-version-of-star-marine-star-citizens-fps-is-out-now)
Post by: dsmart on January 15, 2017, 08:39:02 AM
Post by: dsmart on January 23, 2017, 11:48:59 AM
Brutal:
Quote
After enduring Star Marine I have come to the conclusion that Star Marine is probably not worth looking at again for a long time. Anyone thinking it’s worth trying Star Citizen for this FPS module would be better off looking at something else. Anything, in fact. Anything would be better than what I have just experienced.
1yr ago:
Gamerant: Star Citizen Will Have ‘More Lethal’ FPS Gameplay Than Call of Duty (https://gamerant.com/star-citizen-fps-call-duty/)
Post by: Flashwit on January 23, 2017, 12:13:26 PM
There was only one cultist in the comments on that last article and he was getting pretty slammed. They really aren't used to what reality is like outside their subreddit echo chamber.
Post by: dsmart on January 23, 2017, 01:43:27 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C24JlQRUQAAXo0r.jpg)
Post by: dsmart on January 23, 2017, 02:45:24 PM
Post by: dsmart on January 23, 2017, 03:24:15 PM
Quote
"Really it is all about constant iteration from launch. The whole idea is to be constantly updating. It isn’t like the old days where you had to have everything and the kitchen sink in at launch because you weren’t going to come back to it for awhile. We’re already one year in - another two years puts us at 3 total which is ideal. Any more and things would begin to get stale."
So this is why Star Citizen is stale now. Such a visionary! He got it right all along! :bahgawd:
Post by: Beexoffel on January 26, 2017, 08:29:52 AM
The Mittani: EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW: STAR CITIZEN'S CHRIS ROBERTS (https://www.themittani.com/features/exclusive-interview-star-citizens-chris-roberts)Quote"Really it is all about constant iteration from launch. The whole idea is to be constantly updating. It isn’t like the old days where you had to have everything and the kitchen sink in at launch because you weren’t going to come back to it for awhile. We’re already one year in - another two years puts us at 3 total which is ideal. Any more and things would begin to get stale."
So this is why Star Citizen is stale now. Such a visionary! He got it right all along! :bahgawd:
This commenter already saw the troubles coming over four years ago:
(http://i.imgur.com/ttE9bIZ.png)
https://www.themittani.com/features/exclusive-interview-star-citizens-chris-roberts#comment-689126547
Post by: dsmart on January 26, 2017, 11:10:10 AM
Also, Chris Roberts held a Reddit AMA back on Oct 2012 (https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/11wivt/i_am_chris_roberts_creator_of_wing_commander/). Some glorious highlights. That was FOUR years ago.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3HaVllXAAEQW3R.jpg:large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3HaVlmXcAETxvM.jpg:large)
Post by: dsmart on January 28, 2017, 05:09:20 PM
Jan 26, 2017: In this broadcast (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPKGXilvxUU&feature=youtu.be&t=2h2m1s), he said (verbatim):
Quote
"The comparisons to No Man's Sky are bullshit. Wanna know why they are bullshit? Because No Man's Sky hid everything before launch; and lied about a bunch of shit; and then came out and ended up being a bunch of shit.
Star Citizen is the most transparent development of anything I have ever seen. There is so much info..I mean one, you can go and play it right now; and you can see the exact state that it's currently in - 'cuz you can just go and play the alpha.
And the amount of information they put out on a weekly basis..they make videos, they stream, the developer blogs are like five fucking pages long a day.
There's no game in history that has been as transparent as with the development and where they're going with it, than Star Citizen has been.
They...you can play it; they show it all the time; they are completely open with their process.
So no, yeah, it might end coming out and being shit; and the people throwing thousands of dollars at it, well I think that's kind of foolish, but you know, it's your money, you do what you want with it.
But I refuse to allow it to be compared to No Man's Sky; it's a, it's a polar opposite situation..of that. It's a stupid comparison. We know exactly what Star Citizen is, right now at this very moment. We do; it's all out there.
Aug 16, 2016: In this broadcast (https://youtu.be/JCG9YLeIB98?t=2008), he basically makes the same comparisons between No Man's Sky and Star Citizen hype; but this time specifically about the "zealous" Star Citizen fanbase and it's comparison to the NMS one.
July 9th, 2015: In this broadcast (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LILjYt5VaKE&feature=youtu.be&t=35m20s), he said (verbatim):
Quote
"I am certainly concerned about No Man's Sky; obviously I'll give it a try, uhm, but it's extremely ambitious, and that's always a reason to doubt it. And then when you throw in the idea of procedural generation, like urrgh. I hear that word; I hear that word a lot, and whenever I hear it, I get a little bit worried because I've seen games that do the all procedural generation thing, and they're generally by no means as good as a game that has a properly designed level. Because the computer can never create a properly designed level anywhere near as well as an actual human being can. And when comes out to planets; I'm like oh well, I mean, er I dunno what's gonna be going on with that. I've definitely got my doubts; certainly. I hope it turns out good; I don't want it to fail.
*laughs*
Star Citizen, imaginary game, yeah. You threw money at a pipe dream. You know, maybe Star Citizen will come out at some point in some form, I'm sure it probably will, but. We will see some game, that has space ships in it. It will probably be...yeah, we turned it into a racing game guys, we took the racing component that's the entire game, just like, we're done. It is, it is super ambitious. It also has a lot of money, but it doesn't matter how much money you can throw at a game, you can still end up failing your goals.
They're [backers] throwing money at a dream; and I, I don't really know if Star Citizen actually turns out to be what they claimed it is, and what they promise it is; then it will be incredible no doubt; but..when? When is that gonna happen?
Meanwhile, over at the /r/StarCitizen watering hole (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/5qhsuc/youtuber_totalbiscuit_shares_his_thoughts_on/), a bunch of the "zealous" fanbase, along with the Usual Suspects (aka Shitizens) are trying to use his statements to somehow legitimize the notion that because Star Citizen has "open" development, that means everything is fine, it's coming out etc.
It's all the usual rubbish.
TotalBiscuit has been clear and consistent in his musings and statements regarding Star Citizen. His recent statements are no different. His comment about NMS vs SC, especially in the recent broadcast, are restricted to the notion of people comparing the two games in terms of knowing what the game is and about; and that because NMS was a disaster, so too will Star Citizen.
He is basically saying that with NMS you didn't know what you were getting, what state the game was in etc. Until it was released. Then all hell broke loose. But with Star Citizen, there is all this wealth of material, you can read them, go play the alpha right now etc. So you know - beforehand - the state that the game is in, the discussions around it, and from there you can make an informed decision about it.
The key takeaway here is that, NMS hid everything about the development, failed to curb expectations etc. But how is that wrong? The game wasn't crowd-funded, it wasn't early access, and they were under no obligation to release anything about the development of their game, other the hype they were generating. In short, they operated like a standard dev studio or publisher would.
Star Citizen is a $142m crowd-funded game (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals); not to mention the amount of money from loans and investors which haven't been disclosed. Even if they don't have to explain anything to the bankers and investors, they have an obligation to the backers because that was the premise of the project and the promise made to backers (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/the-pledge). It is patently irrelevant if they are "open" (hint: they aren't) or not, in terms of full disclosure because, since day one, they've historically LIED to backers, used shady tactics to continue fleecing them for funding etc. And after five (six if you're counting) years and all this money, neither of the two games promised for a Nov 2014 delivery, are even near 15% complete.
(http://dereksmart.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/sc-the-pledge.jpg)
No Man's Sky promised no such thing; and were under no obligation to be "open" about their development. However, just like Sean Murray did, Chris Roberts has been talking up and lying about a bunch of features which have now either been cut, or will never - ever - make it into the game.
The Star Citizen devs are only "open" about what they want to share with backers. And most of the more critical info is either hidden or obfuscated. Go ahead, ask a backer when the much touted 3.0 patch (see my predictions here (http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=29.msg954#msg954) - all of which came true) is coming out; or the state of Squadron 42; or the status of the Lumberyard engine switch; or their internal projections (note the public schedule (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/schedule-report) only goes to 2.6.1) for the release of both games; or why they were busy making R&D tech demos under the guise of building tech for the game engine; or why some critical info about the game (http://dereksmart.com/forums/topic/star-citizen-musings/#post-5198), ends up in game magazines (e.g. in Germany) instead of the community etc. I could go on and on, but you get the idea.
Star Citizen is as open and transparent as the frosted glass in a Church. In fact, the "game" itself is so transparent, that you can't even see it; because there is no game.
ps: Rant by a former concierge and $10K+ backer. (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen_refunds/comments/5qsh7p/my_sc_rant/)
Post by: dsmart on February 02, 2017, 01:49:06 PM
Post by: dsmart on February 05, 2017, 03:04:37 PM
Post by: dsmart on February 17, 2017, 06:15:17 AM
Post by: dsmart on February 17, 2017, 09:55:36 AM
LOL!!
Quote
Predictably there is also a ship sale on as CIG encourage players to pump yet more cash into the game. Out advice is don’t whip out that wallet, they already have over 142 million to make this. If they can’t make it with that then there’s no hope for it.
Post by: Stan on February 17, 2017, 11:06:50 PM
The Star Citizen Exclusive Interview: Erin Roberts (http://wccftech.com/star-citizen-exclusive-interview-erin-roberts/)
This whole article is a joke.
Completely full of fantasy bullshit.
These people have no idea how an MMO works....how people play them...even if they could get the game to do what they say ..very few people would do what they imagine they would do...You struggle to get a tank and a healer in most games .. getting people to run around a ship pressing buttons pretending to be scottys little helper" isnt going to cut it.
and then there is ..
"Definitely, there are a lot of systems being put into place which will basically support everything the player will do. I can’t remember the name we have for it internally right now but there is a whole system for players etc communicating while in space with regards to jobs. So let’s say you want to send out a distress call. You can send that to just your friends or anybody, some people may come and help you, some may try and kill you, who knows. That entire system is basically the same system in which if you’re out in your ship and you run out of fuel, you’d put out a tender to say “Hey, I’m at this location, please bring me fuel and I’ll pay you X”. This is all the system we’re building out now and it’s part of the whole new mission framework system. Let’s say you’re quantum travelling and you get interdicted by pirates and you communicate for help, it could be players or NPC’s and it’s basically a jobbing system.2
In other words, Sc will have a chat system...DIY professions ... sorted...
and there is always you and your "friends" imagination.. Whilst you navigate the game crashes, clipping and lack of features, you can simply use your imaginations to conjure up varied and exciting scenarios and gameplay...
Post by: dsmart on February 23, 2017, 08:07:18 AM
http://www.redbull.com/en/games/stories/1331846115570/star-citizen-infographic-red-bull-games (http://www.redbull.com/en/games/stories/1331846115570/star-citizen-infographic-red-bull-games)
"To visit all 77 current systems would take you more than two days"
Post by: Stan on February 23, 2017, 11:16:43 AM
Looks like the propaganda payments (to Red Bull and Wolf Larsen) must have cleared.
http://www.redbull.com/en/games/stories/1331846115570/star-citizen-infographic-red-bull-games (http://www.redbull.com/en/games/stories/1331846115570/star-citizen-infographic-red-bull-games)
"To visit all 77 current systems would take you more than two days"
Unadulterated Bullshit.
Post by: dsmart on February 23, 2017, 12:47:31 PM
Post by: dsmart on March 03, 2017, 09:52:59 AM
Post by: dsmart on March 07, 2017, 08:46:52 AM
Quote
Q: Do you think there’s a possibility that Star Citizen eventually shows up on consoles after all?
A: Right now, we’re very focused on delivering this on PC. But could it be on the consoles? Why not? We’ll look to see what makes the most sense in the future, and how exactly we can do that.
That time back in Oct 2016 when I said... (http://dereksmart.com/forums/topic/star-citizen-musings/#post-4746)
Then followed up with this blog (http://www.dereksmart.com/2016/12/star-citizen-irreconcilable-differences/) in Dec 2016.
Post by: dsmart on March 19, 2017, 12:50:44 PM
The systematic destruction of the project (http://www.pcgamesn.com/star-citizen/star-citizen-vulkan-api-dx12). It's also an indication that they have yet to do a full LY switch.
Last I checked, Lumberyard didn't support DX12 or Vulcan (https://gamedev.amazon.com/forums/articles/7061/feature-request-dx12-and-vulkin-rendering-support.html). So CIG would have to implement it whether or not they switch fully to LY.
Post by: dsmart on March 24, 2017, 12:07:22 PM
So, it looks like the CIG/RSI (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/contact-us) v Defy Media (http://www.defymedia.com/) fiasco has been resolved quietly.
Back in 2015, at the height of the Star Citizen fiasco, The Escapist (owned by Defy Media) published an article "Star Citizen Controversy Reaches Boiling Point (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/features/14695-Star-Citizen-Controversy-Reaches-a-Boiling-Point)" (archive (https://web.archive.org/web/20170401000000*/http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/features/14695-Star-Citizen-Controversy-Reaches-a-Boiling-Point)) by Liz Finnegan. That article sparked a highly inflammatory response (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14979-Chairmans-Response-To-The-Escapist) (archive (https://web.archive.org/web/20170119204013/https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14979-Chairmans-Response-To-The-Escapist)) from Chris Roberts; after which a threat of legal action by Ortwin (co-founder and media attorney for the project) followed. We all just laughed.
According to archives, the last data capture for The Escapist article was Mar 9th, 2017 (https://web.archive.org/web/20170401000000*/http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/features/14695-Star-Citizen-Controversy-Reaches-a-Boiling-Point); and the last data capture for the CIG response, was Jan 19th, 2017 (https://web.archive.org/web/20170515000000*/https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14979-Chairmans-Response-To-The-Escapist). Which means that CIG pulled theirs first; months earlier.
I think everyone can agree that Chris's response was the most inflammatory and ridiculous rant so far in this whole farce. Defamation aside - and which I had vowed to sue both Chris and CIG over when the time was right - many backers (present and those who have asked for a refund) agree that it was the turning point in this discourse. It showed the sort of people we were dealing with. That aside from all the other shenanigans related to funding (the funding chart is a lie), the promises being walked back and taken away via the ToS, the many lies about the state of the project etc. Two years later, all of it has come to a head; and the time to pay the piper is fast approaching.
It's all so hilarious to me considering that (as I wrote here a few weeks ago (http://dereksmart.com/forums/topic/sc-scoop/#post-5224)) all of this could very well have been avoided back in 2015 when I spent my own money on legal fees to ask CIG - nicely - to do right by backers. Had they done that, most of what has played out, and which ended up being the subject of my blogs and writings, as well as on-going media fodder, would quite possibly have died down by now.
But instead, Chris foolishly decided to make this whole thing about me (http://www.dereksmart.org/2015/08/star-citizen-how-i-got-involved/), Ortwin in a momentary lapse of judgment decided to pick on that one person who regards the notion of "...come at me, bro" as permission to wage war, some members of their toxic (which makes sense, considering that the previous CIG community manager, the now sidelined Ben Lesnick, is no better (http://www.dereksmart.org/forums/topic/star-citizen-extinction-level-event/#post-3050)) community decided to wage an all-out proxy war of attrition because some guy was writing bad stuff about a frigging video game.
Now, aside from being on the verge of collapse, the whole project (not to mention the community at large) is so very toxic, that it's more of a meme, than it is a project that's worthy of note.
Post by: dsmart on March 26, 2017, 08:00:24 AM
Basically, it recently came to my attention that Defy Media, which owns The Escapist, pulled a 2yr old, SPJ Award winning (http://www.spj.org/kunkel-winners-2015.asp), story that was highly critical of Star Citizen, and which had prompted a highly defamatory, and legally actionable diatribe by Chris Roberts, CEO of CIG and creator of the project.
I wrote a brief about it on Fri; but I am hearing that there is more to this than just two sides agreeing to take down their articles. So, naturally, I have started digging.
Note that there are no lawsuits, court orders, or anything of the sort which would have prompted this. So they probably settled it somehow; as the only leverage CIG would have had, is money to outspend a small fringe media company. They really should try that shit with me.
Post by: Scruffpuff on March 26, 2017, 11:43:21 AM
I'll give you three guesses as to who initiated this, and why.
Post by: dsmart on March 27, 2017, 08:40:25 AM
This was the first in a series of sweeps intended to reassert control over the Star Citizen narrative and minimize the ability for new potential backers to realize what a scam it is.
I'll give you three guesses as to who initiated this, and why.
As I wrote (1 (http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=27.msg1289#msg1289), 2 (http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=27.msg1292#msg1292)) earlier, it's worth pursuing for posterity alone. So I am going to be do a blog about it.
As I wrote last week, CIG has succeeded in using BACKER FUNDS to outspend and subsequently force The Escapist owner Defy Media to pull an Society of Professional Journalists award winning article, critical of the Star Citizen project. Even as most of what was researched and written about the article - two years ago - already came to pass.
Both the article and Chris Roberts defamatory response (against the site, the writer, and of course myself), have been taken down; apparently by mutual agreement in which both sides just decided to stop spending attorney fees on "bullshit".
Apparently since The Escapist is not a "going concern" for Defy, unlike their other more profitable enterprises (they raised $70m in Series B funding back in Sept 2016), they seem to have opted to stop spending money on legal bills for the site.
I continue to dig into this; but now that I have more info, I am in the process of writing an investigative blog about it for posterity.
This sets a horrid precedent. Imagine if any other game publisher had pulled a stunt like this against a news site.
- Defy Media stood (1 (http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2015/10/04/star-citizen-developer-threatens-lawsuit-against-the-escapist-demands-apology-and-retraction/), 2 (https://techraptor.net/content/star-citizen-lawsuits-and-journalism-ethics)) by the 2015 story, which btw, later won an SPJ award (http://www.spj.org/kunkel-winners-2015.asp) for the writer
- The Escapist scaled down a year (http://www.cgmagonline.com/2016/03/29/escapist-suffers-huge-lay-offs/) later because the site, like most, is losing money
- I have it on good authority that they have been going back and forth with legal bullshit since 2015. Just like I was with Ortwin back in 2015
- Legal bills cost money
- A parent company for a site that's not making money, isn't going to continue spending money on inconsequential bullshit that's not going to MAKE them money
- CIG is mostly funded by backer money that we know of. Aside from unknown loans and investors
- CIG is in a legal song and dance with Defy Media, who has to respond via attorneys
- Attorneys cost money. CIG has disposable income via backers. Defy does not have money to blow on The Escapist. They raised $70m (https://www.wsj.com/articles/defy-media-raises-70-million-in-new-funding-1473768000) in Sept 2016 to further their operations (they have other profitable properties)
- It appears both sides decided to withdraw, rather than continue spending money on inconsequential bullshit.
- The End
If Defy Media was willing to continue spending money to fight a story they PUBLICLY stood behind, it stands to reason that it would be in court by now. Not a mutual removal of the stories - 2 years later. Especially considering that the onus was on CIG to disprove the allegations cited in the article; while defending the defamatory statements made in CIG's diatribe. CIG would have completely LOST such a case; and especially since I would have been dragged into it
Post by: Motto on March 27, 2017, 02:29:35 PM
Post by: dsmart on March 27, 2017, 03:46:27 PM
When SC crashes, the article will be back online in no-time.
LOL! Well, there are still archives. :c00lbert:
Post by: dsmart on March 29, 2017, 03:50:10 PM
Huge Crowdfunded Project ‘Star Citizen’ Gets Negative Articles Scrubbed From Web (https://heatst.com/gaming/huge-crowdfunded-project-star-citizen-gets-negative-articles-scrubbed-from-web/)
Post by: dsmart on March 30, 2017, 08:35:07 AM
This made me holler with laughter.
Quote
One of the backers who notified One Angry Gamer about the removal of the pieces explained that they were informed by CIG/RSI staff that the crowd-funds that were gathered for the game would not be used in any legal battles, either to protect the brand integrity of Star Citizen or to limit damaging material aimed at the project.
The backers of the game apparently expressed that they would “not tolerate” backer funds being used for CIG/RSI to fight legal battles on behalf of protecting Star Citizen.
They have NO financial accountability for HOW the money is spent. no worries though, it's not spent on legal bills. CIG said so. This is why they are getting fleeced. CIG has $0 income outside of Star Citizen. Even Ortwin gets PAID for his time. sheesh
Post by: dsmart on March 31, 2017, 08:34:24 AM
Fans Have Dropped $77M on This Guy’s Buggy, Half-Built Game (https://www.wired.com/2015/03/fans-dropped-77m-guys-buggy-half-built-game/)
Post by: dsmart on April 13, 2017, 09:42:50 AM
And the writer - new to the farce - gets a dose of the usual Shitizen ire (https://twitter.com/Starfox118/status/852492868056993793).
Post by: dsmart on April 29, 2017, 01:57:18 PM
Post by: nightfire on April 29, 2017, 02:34:07 PM
Chris Roberts pleads for more money – Is Star Citizen now a money pit? (https://www.pcinvasion.com/chris-roberts-pleads-for-more-money)
Again, good entertainment in the comment section:
(http://i.imgur.com/3RHQnAC.jpg)
If true, that would be on the same level as "Luke, I am your father"! :D
Post by: dsmart on April 29, 2017, 02:37:12 PM
Post by: dsmart on May 01, 2017, 07:57:37 AM
Post by: dsmart on May 04, 2017, 07:54:33 AM
Chris Roberts: No pressure to make Star Citizen ‘absolutely perfect’ (https://venturebeat.com/2017/05/03/chris-roberts-no-pressure-to-make-star-citizen-absolutely-perfect/)
Quote
“That’s one of the things I find very attractive about [the project]: I don’t feel the pressure to have this one release be absolutely perfect,” Roberts said. “I feel like it’s an ongoing relationship with the people, the community … . And as things get better, we can improve it. We can improve the stories and add more content. It’s an ongoing process."
Post by: dsmart on May 10, 2017, 07:06:35 PM
Apparently a series of articles coming; like the Kotaku-UK ones.
OldSchoolCmdr wrote a masterful post (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6aek0o/video_game_raised_148_million_from_fans_now_its/dhegg0k/) about the citizens reaction to this article.
Post by: Phraccy on May 11, 2017, 12:08:41 AM
NYT: Video Game Raised $148 Million From Fans. Now It’s Raising Issues (http://"https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/10/technology/personaltech/video-game-raised-148-million-from-fans-now-its-raising-issues.html")
Apparently a series of articles coming; like the Kotaku-UK ones.
OldSchoolCmdr wrote a masterful post (http://"https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6aek0o/video_game_raised_148_million_from_fans_now_its/dhegg0k/") about the citizens reaction to this article.
Just a heads up, links are not working, at least for me.
I read the NYT article and tbh, its more like a lukewarm enumeration of past events without really going into the concerns this game has brought up so far, which is sad. Interesting read nonethless, thanks for bringing this to attention.
Hopefully the coming articles will be a bit more scrutinizing.
OldSchoolCmdr's post though, is once again spot on. That guy is absolutely awesome and relentless! Plus he has such a good way with words it's just a pleasure to read his posts.
Post by: Ghostmaker on May 11, 2017, 08:11:17 AM
Referencing Mighty No. 9. Ouch. That's not something you want associated with your burgeoning game, no matter how awesome it might be.
They don't say a lot about CR's film and television career. What else has he done besides the godawful Wing Commander movie? I mean, if he was directing ads, that's okay too -- that's how Michael Bay got started, after all. But they didn't exactly offer a lot of detail.
Quote from: NYT article
Mr. Roberts was inspired earlier this decade by the success of Minecraft, the hugely popular sandbox game from the Swedish game designer Markus Persson. Mr. Persson first released an alpha version of Minecraft in 2009 for a small sum, then used the proceeds to make adjustments and upgrades.
I see I have something else to blame Notch for :haw: (I've often humorously blamed Notch for the rise of indie games, and how Steam seems clogged with substandard indie-spawned crap).
Post by: dsmart on May 11, 2017, 01:02:39 PM
Just a heads up, links are not working, at least for me.
I read the NYT article and tbh, its more like a lukewarm enumeration of past events without really going into the concerns this game has brought up so far, which is sad. Interesting read nonethless, thanks for bringing this to attention.
Hopefully the coming articles will be a bit more scrutinizing.
OldSchoolCmdr's post though, is once again spot on. That guy is absolutely awesome and relentless! Plus he has such a good way with words it's just a pleasure to read his posts.
Links fixed. Thanks.
And yeah, that guy is something else. You know what's hilarious though? Some of those guys think I'm him. Which is hilarious because if I am him, that would mean I've been causing them a lot new and improved aggravation these past two weeks. Man, those guys are dumb. :laugh:
Post by: dsmart on May 12, 2017, 07:29:18 AM
Post by: dsmart on May 14, 2017, 07:41:10 AM
https://clips.twitch.tv/MiniatureUglyGoblinFeelsBadMan
https://clips.twitch.tv/TiredProtectiveGarbageBudBlast
Post by: dsmart on May 23, 2017, 02:27:52 PM
Post by: Motto on June 26, 2017, 07:03:08 AM
Post by: dsmart on June 26, 2017, 01:41:33 PM
Star Citizen gives bank rights to game as collateral for loan (https://mspoweruser.com/star-citizen-gives-bank-rights-franchise-collateral-loan/)
Star Citizen studio seeks to calm fan fears it faces financial issues (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-06-26-star-citizen-studio-seeks-to-calm-fan-fears-it-faces-financial-issues)
Post by: dsmart on June 28, 2017, 01:02:22 PM
Quote
UPDATE: 06/28/17:
I ran through this with an attorney who deals with IP law, as well as another that works for a bank on software company acquisitions, loans etc. The main issue of contention and ambiguity are: does Coutts Bank now own Squadron 42 or Star Citizen, and is Star Citizen excluded from the security pledge?
As the bank isn't a publisher, the word "ownership" is tenuous in this regard. Fact is that, the bank has a "controlling interest" in Squadron 42 (which we assumed to be the "Game" defined in the charge), and in so doing, also has some interests in various aspects of Star Citizen. If this were a publisher, such an interest would give them the means to exercise various types of actions (e.g. design input, marketing, distribution etc) in exploiting the property. But the bank, while having this same insight, isn't likely to exercise it because, well, they are bankers, not publishers or game developers.
Instead, the bank has i) secured the aforementioned aspects, while giving to the studio, the rights to continue working on, and exploiting the product as they have been doing ii) excluded specific (the ambiguous part) aspects of Star Citizen.
For this to be a bit clearer, we have to take a close look at the these two definitions which appear on p22 - 23 of the PDF filing (29 page JPEG album (http://imgur.com/a/pbiVF)).
(https://imgur.com/feVMESr.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/I9Keq3C.jpg)QuoteCollateral means the Chargor's right, title and interest in and to (i) the property charged pursuant to Clauses 4.1 and 4.2 hereof and (ii) the property assigned pursuant to Clause 5 hereof; excluding in all cases the Excluded Collateral;
Excluded Collateral means (i) the assets that have been charged pursuant to the Nat West Security Agreement; and (ii) all Intellectual Property Rights and all exploitation and distribution and other rights and all title, interest and materials with respect to the video game provisionally entitled "Star Citizen";
We also have to look at sections 4.2.2 and 4.2.5 on p7 of the PDF.
(https://imgur.com/LIrtokW.jpg)Quote4.2.2 the Game Assets and the Distribution Rights
4.2.5 all digital material and sound and visual material made or to be made incorporating or reproducing all or any part of the Game; and
The ambiguity (to those who don't know software development, or that Squadron 42 is built from Star Citizen code, engine, assets etc) is in whether or not Star Citizen is really excluded in toto from the "Collateral". It is, but only certain aspects (e.g. the name) of it. In Section 4.2.5 "digital material" is blanket coverage of everything digital, which includes source code. Since Squadron 42 uses engine code and other assets from Star Citizen, it stands to reason that those assets are also secured.
And this how all Star Citizen tech and assets came to be inadvertently secured in this Charge. Of course if they don't default on the loan, or go bust at some point in time, none of this matters because then there won't be any dispute as to how much of Star Citizen is contained in Squadron 42.
Post by: StanTheMan on June 28, 2017, 02:41:58 PM
Not that you would think that to read the nonchalant cursory replies of most on the Star Citizen Reddit that demonstrate they don't care for facts and want thin reassurances from Liarmouth instead.
Post by: dsmart on June 28, 2017, 03:38:25 PM
The fact that there could be a legal issue of how much of the code of Star Citizen Coutts have a charge and controlling interest on is no help for Backers wanting to ignore this loan and the issues surrounding it.
Not that you would think that to read the nonchalant cursory replies of most on the Star Citizen Reddit that demonstrate they don't care for facts and want thin reassurances from Liarmouth instead.
Precisely. And it's not even that they don't care for facts, they will just disregard such serious things out of hand because any manner of dissent - especially one that I am apparently the instigator of - is an act of war.
In this instance, they know - fully well - that without Star Citizen tech, assets etc, there is no Squadron 42. Yet, despite the fact that this is true, and SHOULD be a cause for concern, they would rather disregard and wave it off. Luckily not all backers are in a cult, or stupid enough to not understand what they were reading.
Post by: dsmart on July 04, 2017, 10:46:52 AM
Quote
An extreme example would be to compare, say, House of the Dying Sun with Star Citizen. House of the Dying Sun is a pared-back, bare-bones space combat simulator reminiscent of the old X-Wing Vs. Tie Fighter games. It offers a modest selection of short, intense dogfighting missions and literally nothing else. Meanwhile the harried Star Citizen devs are modelling everything from office furniture to working toilets, and the space combat side of things, ostensibly the beating heart of the game, has kind of fallen by the wayside.
Post by: dsmart on July 04, 2017, 01:20:49 PM
http://guardfrequency.com/174
The "Coutts loan" fun starts around 08:00
ps: Don't everyone chant "Derek Smart was right" all at once. Do pace yourselves.
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 04, 2017, 05:38:21 PM
Guard Frequency » Guard Frequency Episode 174 | It’s not Rocket FinanceWell. Hm. That was a thing.
http://guardfrequency.com/174
The "Coutts loan" fun starts around 08:00
ps: Don't everyone chant "Derek Smart was right" all at once. Do pace yourselves.
They don't seem very fond of Freyermuth, either.
Post by: StanTheMan on July 05, 2017, 03:54:12 AM
Guard Frequency » Guard Frequency Episode 174 | It’s not Rocket FinanceWell. Hm. That was a thing.
http://guardfrequency.com/174
The "Coutts loan" fun starts around 08:00
ps: Don't everyone chant "Derek Smart was right" all at once. Do pace yourselves.
They don't seem very fond of Freyermuth, either.
Surely the thing to take away from this is - little to see here - potentially.
Freymouth doing what he does, Coutts not likely to have taken the business if they thought a default was on the cards ?
Perhaps I need to listen to it again.
Post by: dsmart on July 05, 2017, 04:31:53 AM
Guard Frequency » Guard Frequency Episode 174 | It’s not Rocket FinanceWell. Hm. That was a thing.
http://guardfrequency.com/174
The "Coutts loan" fun starts around 08:00
ps: Don't everyone chant "Derek Smart was right" all at once. Do pace yourselves.
They don't seem very fond of Freyermuth, either.
Surely the thing to take away from this is - little to see here - potentially.
Only if you're a Shitizen who didn't understand any of it.
Post by: dsmart on July 07, 2017, 09:13:02 AM
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 07, 2017, 10:10:08 AM
Star Citizen - Procedural Moons (http://dereksmart.com/forums/topic/star-citizen-musings/#post-5501) - My AnalysisInteresting stuff.
30fps has, until recently, been more or less the 'standard'. Even now it's considered the minimum you want to play at. Many gamers nowadays have been encouraging devs to shoot for 60fps, and the difference IS visible (at least to my eyes).
But 15-20fps? And presumably this is on a customized work machine, not Consumer #523526's machine which may or may not be running things in the background, have different hardware, etc, etc...
Post by: dsmart on July 07, 2017, 01:18:49 PM
Star Citizen - Procedural Moons (http://dereksmart.com/forums/topic/star-citizen-musings/#post-5501) - My AnalysisInteresting stuff.
30fps has, until recently, been more or less the 'standard'. Even now it's considered the minimum you want to play at. Many gamers nowadays have been encouraging devs to shoot for 60fps, and the difference IS visible (at least to my eyes).
But 15-20fps? And presumably this is on a customized work machine, not Consumer #523526's machine which may or may not be running things in the background, have different hardware, etc, etc...
That's the thing, even in the current 2.6.3 build, the performance is horrific. Imagine what it's going to be like if/when they do roll out 3.0.
Also, speaking of bullshots. I updated the article to include the 3.0 bullshot from CitizenCon 2016. Same shit, different build.
Post by: dsmart on July 11, 2017, 07:12:06 AM
Quote
One day a gamer with vivid memories of playing Wing Commander back in the 1980s entered an antique store and picked up a cursed monkey paw. Whilst inspecting the curio, he absent-mindedly said to himself: “Man, those old Chris Roberts space shooters were great, but I wish he had unlimited time and money to make a game that could truly live up to his vision.” With a sinister creak, one of the fingers curled. The shop-keeper rang up the purchase, and to the aging nerd spoke two ominous words: “No refunds.”
Post by: dsmart on July 14, 2017, 01:52:13 PM
Like so many before it, this one also is coincidentally coming out just before Gamecom, even as 3.0 continues to remain a no-show.
I remember all the similar articles from them going back 2-3 years. Still no game.
Post by: StanTheMan on July 14, 2017, 03:19:15 PM
Those German Shillizens over at GameStar have a 3.0 article that's about to publish. A guy on Reddit has a write-up about it (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6nau6m/gamestar_titelstory_summary/).
Like so many before it, this one also is coincidentally coming out just before Gamecom, even as 3.0 continues to remain a no-show.
I remember all the similar articles from them going back 2-3 years. Still no game.
They use the words that everything has to be perfect for CR.
Perfect Fuck up...
Post by: dsmart on July 16, 2017, 04:26:27 AM
The Shilling is in full swing ahead of GamesCom pledge drive. Someone at Yahoo! figured out a 6 month old story. :lol:
Post by: dsmart on July 17, 2017, 09:38:44 AM
Quote
Derek Smart criticises Gamestar title story on Twitter - "Hilarious Propaganda" (http://www.pcgames.de/Star-Citizen-Spiel-3481/News/Derek-Smart-Gamestar-Titelstory-Propaganda-Twitter-1233287/)
Source: PC Games
17.07.2017, 08:00 AM Star Citizen and Derek Smart: It is a love story for eternity. The self-proclaimed critic in chief of Chris Robert‘s gargantuan project has spoken up again after Gamestar’s title story about the space-MMOG and condescendingly called the article in the magazine "propaganda". Star Citizen troll Derek Smart just can’t stop: On Twitter the failed developer and harsh critic of Star Citizen boss Chris Roberts has labelled the latest Gamestar title story on the space MMOG a "propaganda piece". The article ‚is a hilarious reminder oft past years, when they pulled the same shtick". "Has anyone picked up on the fact that Gamestar was not allowed to play Squadron 42 [the single-player mode of Star Citizen with infamously delayed release dates, editor’s note]? Yeah, me too", Derek Smart adds with a dash of harsh sarcasm.
And in case you missed the key highlights from that propaganda, here's a summary. It's hilarious. https://t.co/83ioj9Cdy8 (https://t.co/83ioj9Cdy8)
— Derek Smart (@dsmart) July 15, 2017
Aside from the accusations of "propaganda" towards Gamestar and developer Cloud Imperium Games, Smart also makes fun of how Chris Robert‘s company publishes new information on the largest crowdfunding game in history: "Supporters on reddit are trying to decipher the German writings of a 154 million Dollar game they paid for."
Backers on Reddit are trying to decipher the German writings of a $154 million game they paid for. https://t.co/JtfMq8OQqZ (https://t.co/JtfMq8OQqZ)
— Derek Smart (@dsmart) July 14, 2017
PC Games has summarized all infos from the paywall-protected Gamestar title story for you for free: Among other things, there are first details on Star Citizen’s system requirements. Furthermore, it became known that the population in the MMOG universe will consist of 90% NPCs and that Gamestar’s editorial department itself thinks of Cloud Imperium Games‘ Star Citizen team as "megalomaniac perfectionists". Lastly, the developers one again reinforce their belief that no graphics-downgrade will be necessary for Star Citizen, thanks to PC exclusivity and thus no pressure from console limitations.
A Star Citizen release is still far out and there probably won’t be a Squadron 42 release date any time soon either. Currently, Chris Roberts and his colleagues are working on Star Citizen Alpha 3.0.
Post by: dsmart on July 18, 2017, 04:51:12 AM
Quote
I talked to publishers about doing a fourth Elite game, but some things happened. Publishers were skeptical of space games in general because of the financial failure of Freelancer, an early 2000's game. It was delayed. It's a nice game, but in that period, they were just incredibly skeptical.
---
When we first greenlit Elite: Dangerous, there were no other major space games since Freelancer. Now, there are dozens. So, I think we've succeeded. We've brought the genre back to life. And we've proven there's quite a lot of demand for this sort of game. Yes, it's niche, but it's quite a big niche. And we've got Chris Roberts coming along now, and so many other games that look interesting. No Man's Sky, even.
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 18, 2017, 05:00:34 AM
The Space Game Packed with 160,000 star systems and a Cut-Throat, Capitalist Society (http://www.rollingstone.com/glixel/features/elite-dangerous-creator-talks-sci-fi-politics-and-whats-next-w492781)Er, meaning no disrespect, but it seems Mr. Braben completely forgot about Eve Online...QuoteI talked to publishers about doing a fourth Elite game, but some things happened. Publishers were skeptical of space games in general because of the financial failure of Freelancer, an early 2000's game. It was delayed. It's a nice game, but in that period, they were just incredibly skeptical.
---
When we first greenlit Elite: Dangerous, there were no other major space games since Freelancer. Now, there are dozens. So, I think we've succeeded. We've brought the genre back to life. And we've proven there's quite a lot of demand for this sort of game. Yes, it's niche, but it's quite a big niche. And we've got Chris Roberts coming along now, and so many other games that look interesting. No Man's Sky, even.
Post by: dsmart on July 18, 2017, 06:20:01 AM
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 18, 2017, 09:48:24 AM
Eve isn't in the same class as those games though.It's a space game, or at least it pretends to be.
Then again, there's a reason I never got into Eve. Years back, I had gotten my first broadband connection. Bye bye, dialup! And I decided to try an MMO. I didn't really want to play a -fantasy- MMO though, and those were infesting the market. I narrowed my choices down to City of Heroes, and Eve Online.
And then the T20 scandal hit. Needless to say, I walked BRISKLY away from Eve Online and strapped on the tights for superheroing instead.
Post by: dsmart on July 19, 2017, 03:32:29 PM
Chris responded on Kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/comments?cursor=1633093#comment-1633092):
(http://imgur.com/0EaZQYO.jpg)
Quote
CR here.
Almost at $500K!!! Amazing.
On the Penny Arcade article - there is always going to be people that focus on the negative / try and pull you down. Its a fact of life. Its also an old article that doesn't reflect the excitement and enthusiasm shown by the majority of the press towards Star Citizen.
What's disappointing about the article is that there was no attempt to get in touch, nor did the person who wrote it see anything other than the Gamespot live feed. There was a reason why all the other articles were so effusive. I visited a large amount of the gaming press and sat down with them one on one and gave them a demo. Which is the thing that frustrates me. I'm the only "track record" developer that has actually shown a working prototype - everything else has been either trust me I'll make a good game, or here is some concept art. That's not a knock on anyone as I know Tim, Jordan, Brian personally and I know they will deliver. I just hoped that by working for a year and putting together something that impressed not just on a crowd funding level but also compared to other AAA games that the naysayers could see that my vision was more than just rhetoric.
I've built versions of the game Star Citizen promises to be multiple times and I'm uniquely positioned to know the risks and challenges in achieving Star Citizen. Its not going to be easy. I'm sure some things will not work out the way I intend, and there will be some things that I never envisioned that become awesome features. That is always the way of development. I've spent a year doing the research and prototyping. I have a plan on how to achieve what I've laid out. I wouldn't have gotten on stage at GDC Online if I didn't think I could build Star Citizen. It may take a little longer than 24 months to deliver all the features (as precision on development timelines is always tricky this far out), but whatever happens, you as the backers will get to see the dev team's progress, play early builds and have an insight into high end development like never before!
Post by: dsmart on July 19, 2017, 04:49:05 PM
This was back in 2016 when procgen planets were coming in 2.7
Star Citizen – New screenshots and details for version 2.7 unveiled (http://www.dsogaming.com/news/star-citizen-new-screenshots-and-details-for-version-2-7-unveiled/)
This is some crazy shit:
(http://imgur.com/jedllED.jpg)
Post by: StanTheMan on July 19, 2017, 05:42:39 PM
Back in Oct 2012, Penny Arcade wrote this article (https://web.archive.org/web/20131221025111/https://www.penny-arcade.com/report/article/chris-roberts-star-citizen-needs-your-money-to-get-more-money-and-promises-).
Chris responded on Kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/comments?cursor=1633093#comment-1633092):
(http://imgur.com/0EaZQYO.jpg)QuoteCR here.
Almost at $500K!!! Amazing.
On the Penny Arcade article - there is always going to be people that focus on the negative / try and pull you down. Its a fact of life. Its also an old article that doesn't reflect the excitement and enthusiasm shown by the majority of the press towards Star Citizen.
What's disappointing about the article is that there was no attempt to get in touch, nor did the person who wrote it see anything other than the Gamespot live feed. There was a reason why all the other articles were so effusive. I visited a large amount of the gaming press and sat down with them one on one and gave them a demo. Which is the thing that frustrates me. I'm the only "track record" developer that has actually shown a working prototype - everything else has been either trust me I'll make a good game, or here is some concept art. That's not a knock on anyone as I know Tim, Jordan, Brian personally and I know they will deliver. I just hoped that by working for a year and putting together something that impressed not just on a crowd funding level but also compared to other AAA games that the naysayers could see that my vision was more than just rhetoric.
I've built versions of the game Star Citizen promises to be multiple times and I'm uniquely positioned to know the risks and challenges in achieving Star Citizen. Its not going to be easy. I'm sure some things will not work out the way I intend, and there will be some things that I never envisioned that become awesome features. That is always the way of development. I've spent a year doing the research and prototyping. I have a plan on how to achieve what I've laid out. I wouldn't have gotten on stage at GDC Online if I didn't think I could build Star Citizen. It may take a little longer than 24 months to deliver all the features (as precision on development timelines is always tricky this far out), but whatever happens, you as the backers will get to see the dev team's progress, play early builds and have an insight into high end development like never before!
Very interesting.
Where is BEN KUCHERA the author now I wonder ? it would be good to know what he did and what he thinks now.
Post by: Flashwit on July 20, 2017, 09:19:26 AM
CIG has made German media their dumping ground for Star Citizen propaganda because those guys will print anything.
This was back in 2016 when procgen planets were coming in 2.7
Star Citizen – New screenshots and details for version 2.7 unveiled (http://www.dsogaming.com/news/star-citizen-new-screenshots-and-details-for-version-2-7-unveiled/)
This is some crazy shit:
<list of ridiculous stuff>
These german publications must have been out and out lying at this point or they were just being bamboozled by being shown stuff in the editor. I don't believe they had any planetary landing/transition stuff a year ago or else they would have shown it.
Post by: mixalot on July 20, 2017, 10:33:29 AM
That stuff isn't cheap and CIG's been doing it for a LONG time which means millions have been spent trying to advertise the game in order to cover up a lack of development progress. Right now (more than ever) they needed something to take the attention off the ongoing delays of 3.0, so they paid the German website to publish their article while hoping for all the followup off-tangent responses.
It's cold, calculated, traditional PR propaganda that's on display right now.
Post by: dsmart on July 20, 2017, 11:59:31 AM
Post by: dsmart on July 21, 2017, 05:16:20 PM
"First man on the moon: hands-on with Star Citizen Alpha 3.0" (http://www.pcgamer.com/first-man-on-the-moon-hands-on-with-star-citizen-alpha-30/)
Of course, once again, information like this is behind a media paywall instead of being shown to backers who gave them $155M to date.
At least they confirmed "seamless transition from space to planet". Now we wait to see if that's what they deliver or not.
pcgamer video:
00:40 15 FPS
01:18 24 FPS
Post by: Motto on July 21, 2017, 05:27:00 PM
At least they confirmed "seamless transition from space to planet".
If they do that in the company style, it'll be a crash and burn. :D
Post by: dsmart on July 25, 2017, 02:27:26 PM
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 26, 2017, 08:24:53 AM
LOL! Everyone's taking the piss now. Star Citizen is getting a player-driven economy thanks to kiosk (https://www.pcgamesn.com/star-citizen/star-citizen-3-0-update-trailer-economy-kiosk)Oh look, my eyeballs have rolled so far back I can inspect the current state of my brains.
Jesus Christ. Player econ is not some kind of new thing.
Post by: concern on July 26, 2017, 04:58:51 PM
Post by: dsmart on July 27, 2017, 08:55:31 AM
Post by: Motto on July 27, 2017, 08:59:36 AM
Post by: Flashwit on July 28, 2017, 09:17:38 AM
Post by: Motto on July 28, 2017, 10:17:33 AM
Of course, I don't know anything about game development, so I might be wrong.
Post by: dsmart on July 28, 2017, 07:41:25 PM
http://nosygamer.blogspot.co.uk/2017/07/empty-space.html
Post by: dsmart on July 30, 2017, 11:11:09 AM
Quote
We have to assume they will rustle something up for Gamescom just to keep fans happy. While these special event demonstrations are always impressive, there’s little change to the actual game and they simply fuel the hype machine.
Post by: Flashwit on July 31, 2017, 09:06:00 AM
Quote
CIG would then use Gamescom again to showcase the 3.0 update and possible future features, and if fans are lucky, some Squadron 42.
Chances of anything significant about Squadron 42 at Gamescom must be near nil at this point. Good luck to them on that though.
Post by: N0mad on July 31, 2017, 09:20:22 AM
Chances of anything significant about Squadron 42 at Gamescom must be near nil at this point. Good luck to them on that though.
Well, I was thinking about this. If they Demo 3.0 at Gamescom then any pre-scripted amazingness they show to wow the fans will be met with the obvious question: "If it's playable at Gamescom then why can't you release it for us to play now?".
Clearly CIG won't want to discuss the delays for 3.0 all through the conference. Far more likely is that they have some amazing demo of Squadron 42 - even if it's all scripted and just artwork (remember they keep teasing images of Mark Hamill - so they must be working on something). That way they can distract the fans from 3.0 enough to make some more cash from ship sales and when the fans ask for a release date then CR can just say 2018 to keep them happy.
Post by: Motto on July 31, 2017, 10:14:08 AM
And then, finally, the moment of truth, here is..... something completely different. The
Me thinks the outcry from the backer community would be deafening. Loud enough to even reach the Stanton
The only way that CIG can survive, other than still having lots and lots of money at this very moment, is not only to produce a 3.0 build, but produce one that will meet the expectations of the backer community. It doesn't have to be magical, but at the minimum it needs to show actual progress and enhancement. Simply put, the 3.0 build needs to demonstrate that all the money and resources CIG allocated for another year really actually generated something useful. If it doesn't, there will still be a group of hardcore backers keeping the faith. However, continuous payment for that faith most likely won't happen. After a failing 3.0 build, most backers will want to see Chris put his mouth where their money went. Actually, we'll all do...
Post by: N0mad on July 31, 2017, 10:25:04 AM
We'll see. Derek knows but won't say yet.
Post by: dsmart on July 31, 2017, 10:59:55 AM
The issue is that everything was before this 07/28 schedule. And the outcry since that one, may cause them to change plans for GamesCom. I will know more soon because a source told me over the weekend that, basically, CIG "they don't give a shit about what some loud minority backers think, as they don't represent the greater community". Exact words btw
Post by: Motto on July 31, 2017, 11:02:52 AM
Post by: dsmart on July 31, 2017, 11:37:13 AM
Post by: Motto on August 01, 2017, 04:21:17 AM
And one of the comments:
Roberts needs to keep his mouth shut and stop stating release dates for updates which he surely must know CIG could never meet. Saying that 3.0 would be ready for Xmas 2016 was ludicrous and just a bit irresponsible.
Whilst the wait is frustrating (compounded by yet another fucking buggy being shown off for us to buy) it would be nice if in one of their regular ATV videos they were more open about the struggles they're having rather than hearing about features which are a long way off to being implemented. If you've been following development, you'll know that networking and their AI system known as Subsumption have been nothing but a massive ball ache. Oh, and then there's Squadron 42 which we know nothing about at all two years since that amazing Gary Oldman trailer.
The game is expected to enter beta by the end of 2017.
Lol, absolutely no chance.
Their Gamescom show has the potential to be incredibly toxic if nothing new of note is shown. And if there's nothing shown of Squadron 42 at CitizenCon in September, I dread to think what that will do to confidence in the project.
I'm happy to wait and have my fingers crossed, but CIG are at a crossroads. If 3.0 isn't out by the end of the year and doesn't blow us away upon release, I think the project could be on a downward slope from there. I want to be proven wrong, but with each passing delay, my confidence ebbs away.
Post by: dsmart on August 01, 2017, 04:25:10 PM
Post by: Motto on August 01, 2017, 04:52:07 PM
The best part, people talking about how good 3.0 is. How nice the improvements are, how it has laid a totally new foundation for all of SC, that now the actual coding can jumpstart SC development as never seen before and most of all, how good the new gameplay is. Based on? Some marketing videoclips that are still to be verified as actual gameplay (no ffing way)? The exclusive review of pre 3.0 by Game Star? It's like me telling the world how fantastic the new Ferrari drives and handles because I saw a camouflage picture of it in Top Gear Magazine, The North Pole edition. If they keep this up, they will pre-ejaculate everytime someone mentions Star Citizen to them.
Post by: Motto on August 06, 2017, 04:32:00 PM
Post by: StanTheMan on August 07, 2017, 03:32:51 AM
The delay even made it to MSN (http://www.msn.com/en-us/entertainment/gaming/star-citizen-30-won%E2%80%99t-hit-the-ptu-in-august/ar-AAp13rM?li=AAfq3b1&ocid=spartanntp)
Yes and it's another fluff piece devoid of any journalistic integrity.
Post by: dsmart on August 15, 2017, 07:55:20 AM
Post by: dsmart on August 16, 2017, 06:44:01 AM
Post by: Motto on August 16, 2017, 02:44:30 PM
I did watch the Gamescom demo. It also had one quest, just like the procedural planet video I linked, and a bunch of things that could eventually be shops if they were actually interactable. But there was no actual interaction with them - the presenter walked by and looked at them while he talked about what they would be someday. There were a few NPCs standing around that weren’t interacted with but they did bark out the occasional prerecorded lines of dialogue, probably triggered by entering a trigger volume. The presenter promised they would be populated eventually. I believe him too - that’s not something you can ship without. But it’s not in there yet, and it certainly isn’t ready for showing off. If it were, they would have shown it.
That’s the thing with these demos - I’m judging based on what they actually have in the demo, and extrapolating from that based on my years of experience. Talk is cheap. I’ve worked on enough demo builds and the resulting products to know this very well. This is exactly the sort of thing you put into a tech demo - look at our base technology, here’s what we want to happen in the future, imagine what we could do. But as an actual demo of gameplay, it’s lacking because they are still not showing several core systems. If it were to be a vertical slice, it would need to have all of these core elements in the game - shops, quests, locations, leveling up, modifying ships, equipment and stats, UI, and so on. This is not an indictment of the quality of the game itself, but it does show how far they are in the development process… and that is not all that far, given the scope of the game. This sort of demo is more indicative of being in the preproduction phase than production (i.e. when they have their [vertical slice] with all major gameplay systems working and are working to populate the game with content built on those core systems), which suggests that it will be a very long time before they can actually ship this game. This is why I said in the last post what’s important is sometimes what isn’t there, and not what is. Demos at shows are part real and part smoke and mirrors, and it’s my experience in development that helps me differentiate between the two.
If the plan is to use procedural generation to create planet surfaces, then that’s fine. It would save some time from a level design perspective at the cost of having the planetary surface areas that aren’t hand-made look generic. But the general problems with procedural generation stand - if everything is to be populated by hand, then you’re going to have a lot of planetary surface area that just isn’t very interesting because they won’t have the manpower to populate that much surface area with content. 32 million square kilometers of explorable terrain per planet isn’t very fun if you only have enough development resources (design, engineering, QA, etc.) to populate and test 300 square kilometers of it. If you populate it with procedural quests and points of interest, that content will tend to blend together because it’s generating them from a template. There’s only so much work that can be done (and paid for) before the game has to ship.
Post by: nightfire on August 16, 2017, 03:16:55 PM
Don't you just love the answer :lol:Yes, he totally owned that Shillizen with a masterful response :snoop:
Post by: dsmart on August 16, 2017, 03:38:54 PM
Don't you just love the answer :lol:
Yeah, that's why I shared it. That guys is brutal. :laugh:
Post by: Motto on August 16, 2017, 04:51:45 PM
Post by: dsmart on August 17, 2017, 05:23:14 AM
The big question is, how many stupid Shitizens are going to think that that PC Gamer article actually is accurate?
All of them?
I mean, think about it. Both GameStar.de and PC Gamer claimed to have played 3.0 months (due to the print mag lead times) ago, yet, backers haven't seen any of it, let alone have access to it. So how did these mags know they were actually playing 3.0? Oh right, they were on a moon, on a local LAN.
Post by: dsmart on August 17, 2017, 07:54:27 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/RB3BhvZ.jpg)
Post by: Motto on August 17, 2017, 12:08:36 PM
Post by: Greggy_D on August 17, 2017, 12:39:28 PM
Post by: N0mad on August 18, 2017, 02:13:43 AM
Star Citizen Has a Huge Development Cost Problem (http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/MattBrady/20170817/303892/Star_Citizen_Has_a_Huge_Development_Cost_Problem.php)
Post by: dsmart on August 18, 2017, 05:27:07 AM
Well there you have it. Even the PC Gamer article states that development started in 2012.
Which still contradicts Chris who went on the record several times saying it started in 2011. So. :shrug:
Post by: dsmart on August 18, 2017, 05:30:15 AM
This guest blog/article is interesting, and he nailed all the important aspects. It's curious that he thinks the game needs another $50M in order to deliver the game they promised backers, when in fact the project so far has been raising (and no doubt burning) through over $30M a year. I remember back in 2015 when I said if they had the engine, team, and over $150M, it would be possible. How far we've come. :smuggo:
Quote
Success is far from guaranteed: Star Citizen does not have enough cash to deliver the game they promised backers. Even under very optimistic assumptions, they need around $55 million more to finish the job. CIG must keep the sales up or they will be insolvent. This explains why SC releases a constant stream of new, previously-unannounced ships – they are trying to drive new sales. If there are major operational inefficiencies inside any of the CIG studios, or marketing and sales costs exceed $68 million, or returns reach significant levels, or future sales drop off prior to release, this game cannot be delivered as promised!
Post by: Andrew on August 18, 2017, 12:27:31 PM
This guest blog/article is interesting, and he nailed all the important aspects. I
The article rests on the premise though that SC is indeed comparable with GTA V in payscale of its developers (are the people working on maybe THE premiere gaming-franchise in the world really paid the same as the devs in an upstart like CIG?). We also have to assume the numbers given for budget and marketing costs are true (even if they are originally stated by Rockstar we don't know how much they simplified or faked those numbers).
I wish when people write articles like this one they'd be really a bit more meticulous.
Post by: dsmart on August 19, 2017, 05:00:31 AM
This guest blog/article is interesting, and he nailed all the important aspects. I
The article rests on the premise though that SC is indeed comparable with GTA V in payscale of its developers (are the people working on maybe THE premiere gaming-franchise in the world really paid the same as the devs in an upstart like CIG?). We also have to assume the numbers given for budget and marketing costs are true (even if they are originally stated by Rockstar we don't know how much they simplified or faked those numbers).
I wish when people write articles like this one they'd be really a bit more meticulous.
Agreed on all points. However, I think due to the amounts raised, he's viewing it from the standpoint of a Triple-A game, as there is really no other metric.
Post by: dsmart on August 20, 2017, 05:45:39 AM
Quote
PC Gamer - August 2016: 'Star Citizen's ('totally faked though we didn't know it at the time of this puff piece') 3.0 planetary demo blows No Man's Sky's away! (http://www.pcgamer.com/star-citizen-30s-planetary-landing-blows-no-mans-sky-away/)
Consider some of the claims of last year's PC Gamer 3.0 write-up...
1) 3.0, which is comingtowards the end of this year("no sooner than 14+ months from now"), bringsthe first proper("possibly as much as 25% of the first of 100 promised") star system("s") in Star Citizen to life, and isa major("woefully meager") step towards making this universe feel likea gigantic backdrop("a slightly bigger tech demo still missing most of the initial game mechanics and features promised in 2012").
2) Within this system, there arefour big planets("the same unapproachable gas giant we've had since 2.0, with the 3 remaining big planets MIA"), a smaller planet, space stations and moons, where you can apparentlytrade, haul cargo or partake in piracy("carry one unit of cargo at a time to possibly sell once the developers figure out how not to have the box slam into the NPC merchant.")
3) The planet is fully rendered, Roberts tells me, with no skybox. The sunis in a fixed position, while the planet moves("just a bright light source for this fake demo though Roberts assurances me his will eventually have better solar flares than Braben has in Elite.")
4)They then travel to an asteroid field near a moon, where they quickly locate the vessel—but alsoa group of pirates("couple of pirate ships piloted by CIG employees concealed from my view so Chris can pretend this is spontaneous, AI driven action not local multiplayer larping.") After a quick and successful dogfight againsta few enemy ships("the hidden CIG employees"), the captain jumps out of the spacecraft and floats through the black until he boards the Starfarer. There are morepirates("hidden CIG employees") on-board, as well as the frozen corpses of the crew to push through.
5)Star Citizen still has a very long journey ahead, but the move to 3.0 ("hasn't even really started yet and will not for months as it is just a fiction we are being asked to give verisimilitude to as CIG kicks off their annual fundraising telethon") feels like a significant step closer to building an exciting, online sci-fi universe that people will want to spend time in.
Meanwhile, over there (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6usz6s/pc_gamer_star_citizen_blows_no_mans_sky_away_1/).
Post by: Kastenbrust on August 20, 2017, 03:56:44 PM
Meanwhile, over there (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6usz6s/pc_gamer_star_citizen_blows_no_mans_sky_away_1/).
-30 Karma and descending fast. God they deserve to get burned and lose their money.
Post by: Motto on August 22, 2017, 01:46:24 PM
Post by: dsmart on August 22, 2017, 01:57:57 PM
Well, here's one (http://massivelyop.com/2017/08/22/star-citizen-brought-part-of-3-0-to-gamescom/) that clearly is mistaken
LOL!! That header: STAR CITIZEN BROUGHT PART OF 3.0 TO GAMESCOM
Post by: dsmart on August 23, 2017, 12:48:22 PM
Post by: Motto on August 23, 2017, 01:26:20 PM
I have no idea what they'll be showing, but I'm here to tell you that is some never-seen-before gameplay.
One can only hope it will be the most painful display ever. That'll be the "never-seen-before gameplay" :lol:
Post by: dsmart on August 23, 2017, 01:32:08 PM
Post by: Motto on August 23, 2017, 02:01:50 PM
And maybe it's just time this trainwreck derails. Enough already with the robbing of the backers. The thing is, all that money went to paying for staff and buildings et cetera, so it's not coming back. People will lose money with this biggest crowdfunding fiasco ever. Some will lose big. I wouldn't know how to deal with a loss of say 20 or 30k. The gaming experience with SC over the last years can't measure up to that kind of money I'd recon.
Post by: StanTheMan on August 23, 2017, 05:35:23 PM
I wouldn't know how to deal with a loss of say 20 or 30k.
Well for starters, dont get married and dont have children.
Post by: Motto on August 23, 2017, 10:41:52 PM
Post by: dsmart on August 24, 2017, 04:47:15 AM
I wish my wife and kids had cost only 30k :saddowns:
same :smugjones:
Post by: dsmart on August 24, 2017, 02:31:18 PM
A long look at impressive planet playgrounds in Star Citizen Alpha 3.0 (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-08-24-a-long-look-at-impressive-planet-playgrounds-in-star-citizen-alpha-3-0) - Eurogamer
Star Citizen event on Friday with Chris Roberts will show something (https://www.pcinvasion.com/star-citizen-event-friday-chris-roberts) - PC GamesN
Post by: Motto on August 24, 2017, 02:43:36 PM
PC Invasion on the other hand :golfclap:
Post by: dsmart on August 24, 2017, 06:08:08 PM
Post by: Spunky Munkee on August 25, 2017, 12:31:17 AM
I was shocked when I realized I had spent $500 on that piece of shit. I have to believe that because of the amount they spent they MUST believe in the project, anything but full orthodoxy to the cult of Roberts would be kicking themselves in the ass hard. Sunken Cost. Seriously for 30K you could buy a used airplane and take flying lessons for real. Why would anyone with that kind of cash to burn waste it on some video game. It's mind boggling.
Could you imagine being a whale, having spent 30K on a video game, Roberts is in front of a Grand Jury, up for a possible indictment, You have to stand in front of a bunch of people and cop to the fact that you did this and Roberts took advantage of your gullible nature. It would be like admitting to masturbating in front of a bus of Nuns.
Post by: dsmart on August 25, 2017, 08:33:50 AM
Post by: Flashwit on August 25, 2017, 09:03:43 AM
Sorry if I offend anyone here but unless you are well off and literally have money to burn a person who spends 20-30K on this project should just chop off his balls. It would guarantee that he would not pollute the gene pool and make himself eligible to women.
I was shocked when I realized I had spent $500 on that piece of shit. I have to believe that because of the amount they spent they MUST believe in the project, anything but full orthodoxy to the cult of Roberts would be kicking themselves in the ass hard. Sunken Cost. Seriously for 30K you could buy a used airplane and take flying lessons for real. Why would anyone with that kind of cash to burn waste it on some video game. It's mind boggling.
Could you imagine being a whale, having spent 30K on a video game, Roberts is in front of a Grand Jury, up for a possible indictment, You have to stand in front of a bunch of people and cop to the fact that you did this and Roberts took advantage of your gullible nature. It would be like admitting to masturbating in front of a bus of Nuns.
I'm impressed you spent $500. But as you say, this whole mindset is foreign to me. I'm Backer #20XX (I'm really not going to log in to check) for the price of $35. I think that was the second day of the campaign which feels like ancient history at this point. Never spent another dime on it since then because it seemed bizarre to me to pay for ships that didn't even exist for a game that you couldn't even play.
But here we are with, as you say, people tens of thousands in the hole. Mind boggling.
Post by: Motto on August 25, 2017, 03:54:04 PM
Quote: Nevertheless Star Citizen looks fantastic, and the fact that all this will be possible, all going to plan, within the same server blows my mind. It's made what feels like leaps and bounds since its Gamescom showing last year, and while keen to avoid tying himself to a specific date, Roberts reckons his September 4-8 estimate for the arrival of alpha 3.0 is about right.
Post by: Spunky Munkee on August 25, 2017, 04:20:11 PM
Tonight's Gamescon CIG video feed to YouTube was pretty bad. If they were scripting assets to make it appear to be gameplay they should have made it look really good, fun gameplay or a well done movie, and it was not any of these things. Very amateurish, worse than last years "Demo"
Post by: StanTheMan on August 25, 2017, 04:53:06 PM
Sorry if I offend anyone here but unless you are well off and literally have money to burn a person who spends 20-30K on this project should just chop off his balls. It would guarantee that he would not pollute the gene pool and make himself eligible to women.
I was shocked when I realized I had spent $500 on that piece of shit. I have to believe that because of the amount they spent they MUST believe in the project, anything but full orthodoxy to the cult of Roberts would be kicking themselves in the ass hard. Sunken Cost. Seriously for 30K you could buy a used airplane and take flying lessons for real. Why would anyone with that kind of cash to burn waste it on some video game. It's mind boggling.
Could you imagine being a whale, having spent 30K on a video game, Roberts is in front of a Grand Jury, up for a possible indictment, You have to stand in front of a bunch of people and cop to the fact that you did this and Roberts took advantage of your gullible nature. It would be like admitting to masturbating in front of a bus of Nuns.
I'm impressed you spent $500. But as you say, this whole mindset is foreign to me. I'm Backer #20XX (I'm really not going to log in to check) for the price of $35. I think that was the second day of the campaign which feels like ancient history at this point. Never spent another dime on it since then because it seemed bizarre to me to pay for ships that didn't even exist for a game that you couldn't even play.
But here we are with, as you say, people tens of thousands in the hole. Mind boggling.
Because buying ships (jpegs) is a kind of progression. it is an MMO you play in your mind and it doesnt cost you too many hours from the rest of your life like a real MMO.
You can buy jpegs and feel superior to people who dont have those JPEGS and pretend you are at the forefront of PC game development.
Post by: dsmart on August 25, 2017, 04:56:23 PM
Star Citizen Gamescom 2017 Event Report (https://www.pcinvasion.com/star-citizen-gamescom-2017-event-report) - PC Invasion
Post by: David-2 on August 25, 2017, 07:13:42 PM
PC Gamers write-up (http://www.pcgamer.com/star-citizen-expressive-faces-space-fashion-and-boldly-going-beyond-30/) Star Citizen: expressive faces, space fashion, and boldly going beyond 3.0
I'm not a gamer - I'm a long-time software developer interested in this ongoing trainwreck - but maybe a gamer will explain to me: What's the big deal to gamers about buying clothes for your avatar and choosing which clothes to wear in the morning and dressing your avatar before going out to select a ship? I don't get it. Are the kind of people who want to play space sims, space combat, space "careers" like cargo, mining, etc., or FPS-in-spacesuits whether on a station or boarding a ship the kind of people who want to dress up their dolls? I wouldn't have thought so, but this article makes it sound like a major feature, which I don't get.
Post by: David-2 on August 25, 2017, 07:22:09 PM
So when I tell you that reading the transcript of CR explaining how far they've gotten with SC and what's being shown and what's coming was without a doubt the most transparent and poorly done and blatant session of all off-the-cuff excuse making/obfuscation/bullshitting/outright fabrication I've ever heard then I mean the most over all the hundreds if not thousands of such things I've listened to from junior and senior developers and program managers over 40 years. (And I've done it a few times myself over that period, though, better, I flatter myself.)
Also: Stuff. Stuff. Stuff. And more stuff.
Post by: Spunky Munkee on August 25, 2017, 08:36:27 PM
I am glad to see neutral and factual reporting for once. Far too often articles are written and only if you know what they are really talking about and read between the lines can you see what they are hinting at.
If it keep fresh victims out of Roberts grasp it will be a good thing. Sadly the CIG press machine was running at full bore on Youtube extolling the virtues of the game. Nauseating. I hope new players do their due diligence before joining the cult. I had thought that I had but was mistaken. I got to play what little they had and it cost me nothing but some aggravation. Others won't get off so easily in time.
I hope this disastrous show will slow the funding. I know, there is a new ship to buy and many will. Those people are all past saving. The people who see the lies and the lack of progress and hate the community, those people we can reach.
Post by: Aya Reiko on August 25, 2017, 10:44:51 PM
It doesn't.PC Gamers write-up (http://www.pcgamer.com/star-citizen-expressive-faces-space-fashion-and-boldly-going-beyond-30/) Star Citizen: expressive faces, space fashion, and boldly going beyond 3.0
I'm not a gamer - I'm a long-time software developer interested in this ongoing trainwreck - but maybe a gamer will explain to me: What's the big deal to gamers about buying clothes for your avatar and choosing which clothes to wear in the morning and dressing your avatar before going out to select a ship? I don't get it. Are the kind of people who want to play space sims, space combat, space "careers" like cargo, mining, etc., or FPS-in-spacesuits whether on a station or boarding a ship the kind of people who want to dress up their dolls? I wouldn't have thought so, but this article makes it sound like a major feature, which I don't get.
It's just another way for CRoberts to exploit the whales before they wise up (:3: *giggle*) or the bottom finally falls out of this mess.
Post by: Orgetorix on August 25, 2017, 11:08:36 PM
I'm not a gamer - I'm a long-time software developer interested in this ongoing trainwreck - but maybe a gamer will explain to me: What's the big deal to gamers about buying clothes for your avatar and choosing which clothes to wear in the morning and dressing your avatar before going out to select a ship? I don't get it. Are the kind of people who want to play space sims, space combat, space "careers" like cargo, mining, etc., or FPS-in-spacesuits whether on a station or boarding a ship the kind of people who want to dress up their dolls? I wouldn't have thought so, but this article makes it sound like a major feature, which I don't get.
Have you ever seen the movie Tron? Most games now are going for that ideal. You have a digital character that is a reflection of what you want it to be in the digital space. It's "you", but how you want "you" to be seen by everyone else. It's keeping up with the Jones, 21st century style.
Croberts scam was promising the world to the backers, literally. Go read the stretch goals. His promise to the backers was that he was going to create a persistent world in space where the "fidelity" was real life. That's what the "whales" are buying into mostly. That they can live their life in the game world.
Mining, cargo boxes, nice pretty ships, gravity poo, perfectly modeled liquid dynamic's in a glass, facial animations, custom costumes, serving drink until you can afford your own ship, and everything else that their fat, ohhh so fat wallets can provide...
Post by: Motto on August 26, 2017, 03:13:58 PM
And then they have the audacity to write Star Citizen head honcho Chris Roberts also demonstrated FOIP in a much longer and very impressive gameplay presentation video. However, in the comments, people are not sharing that opinion :D
Post by: dsmart on August 28, 2017, 06:32:47 AM
Another GC2017 interview. It's all the usual rubbish. Completely.
Someone on Spectrum did a transcript. (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/chris-roberts-interview/421691)
Quote
Is it possible to stealth hijack a ship so all the oxygen goes out?
CR: You mean decompress the ship? Yeah, it will definitely be possible. If you blow a door open, then all the atmosphere inside will go out
So everybody dies?
CR: Well they need a suit on, if they have a suit on they won't die. But if they don't have their helmet on, they better get one on very quickly. Depending on the scale of the ship you would probably be able to vent the ship from the pilot's seat. That won't be in 3.0, but in 3.0 you will be able to blow doors and atmosphere will go out of the ship.
And is player stealth going to be possible?
CR: Yeah we're definitely going to be modeling stealth in terms of if you're quiet you can also keep your signature low. Certain suits, light armor, they'll be much better than medium or heavy armor which would have bigger EM signatures and also worse for trying to keep quiet. So yeah, stealth is definitely part of our plan. It's not going to be fully in 3.0, but after 3.0.
How does the Reclaimer processing room work? Is there a minigame to salvage ships or is it automatic?
CR: No, we're gonna have actual gameplay. First of all if you see wreckage you need to go out there and separate the items. Like a gun attached to a blown up wing you'd have to detach the gun and recover it as an item you can sell. Then you can salvage the actual debris and turn that into the equivalent of iron ore and then you can go sell it.
How about docking? Is it still there?
Yes, we are planning on doing docking. I don't know if we showed on the Idris but there's a whole docking airlock and docking collar. Like if you have an Idris and you park at a space station, it's too big to park at an actual pad. So like an airplane at an airport, you have an air-bridge, we have a version of that.
What about the soundtrack? Will the soundtrack be released before SQ42 or after?
CR: We'll do a soundtrack for SQ42 on release of SQ42, but we're also seeing a lot of music in SC. We'll probably have several releases along the way with that.
Are you working to expand Star Marine?
CR: We're working on an additional Star Marine level that will involve planetary combat. So that will be fun. We're always working on FPS features. Our goal on the FPS side is that you can try out Star Marine in competitive matches but also so it works in the the PU is to have the FPS we're doing equivalent to even what a dedicated FPS does. But on a slower more tactical/realistic side. As in [?] all the way to ARMA or something, but it's not just straight Call of Duty. That's why we're having stamina, suit punctures, stealth.
Is Death of a Spaceman still accurate for today's plans?
CR: Still the same plans. We're gonna do that.
Can we still hire NPCs to help man our ships?
CR: Yes, there will be, not in 3.0, but we are planning that. Like we showed the Idris which had 12 players and it was 6 on each ship and it was nice and close. In Squadron we have 18/19 NPCs just on the ship manning it. I suspect for the bigger capital ships like the Idris and above, and even the smaller ones, you'll have an NPC crew as well as your friends playing with you. So yes, you will be able to hire NPCs.
Will there be Russian localization?
CR: I don't know. Honestly it's just too early to say. We're building in the ability to do localization, but in terms of plans right now, it's too early to say. It also depends how we do it. If we can get community helpers to do it, maybe we can localize in more languages.
Yes, we can help.
CR: Well that's great, we just need to put a system in place for it. We're still working in support. So not quite yet, but that's our goal.
Post by: Flashwit on August 28, 2017, 09:26:41 AM
Post by: StanTheMan on August 28, 2017, 02:07:08 PM
I have to say, it must be great for him to just be able to say YES to everything as long as he caveats it with "not in 3.0". Not in 3.0 and definitely no idea when, but the concept exists in his head! Almost as good as being in the game.
Most backers must think game development is like a novice watching someone do a Rubiks Cube.
It all looks a complete mess with a fleeting glimpse here and there of progress .. then suddenly, click it is all done !
Not enough people are saying .. "hang on a minute you can't even create a buggy and a ramp for it to drive up correctly. How the fark are you going to create all this other stuff?"
Post by: FredBloggs on August 30, 2017, 06:17:33 AM
Post by: dsmart on August 30, 2017, 07:24:25 AM
Post by: dsmart on August 30, 2017, 07:25:31 AM
Post by: StanTheMan on August 30, 2017, 07:22:17 PM
Just so we don't lose it, and can refer to it later, I am posting [redacted] (Shillizens) write-up about their June 2017 studio visit (https://www.redacted.tv/erin-roberts-interview-foundry-42-uk-tour-star-citizen-alpha-3-0-beyond/). Read it. It's amazingly hilarious, now that we've seen what happened at GC2017.
hmm
Quote
A revenue stream for them will be selling UEC for the game once it’s live, some people will play a lot OR grind mission to earn credits
Aaah now i get it.
They are going to be able to pay for all these servers by selling UEC to players.
The fewer missions players complete the more likely they are to buy UEC from CIG.
This explains all the challenges they had trying to complete the mission in the Gamescon Demo.
You are meant to fail it and crash your buggy so you have to buy UEC instead of earn it.
Post by: dsmart on August 31, 2017, 05:17:45 AM
Just so we don't lose it, and can refer to it later, I am posting [redacted] (Shillizens) write-up about their June 2017 studio visit (https://www.redacted.tv/erin-roberts-interview-foundry-42-uk-tour-star-citizen-alpha-3-0-beyond/). Read it. It's amazingly hilarious, now that we've seen what happened at GC2017.
hmmQuoteA revenue stream for them will be selling UEC for the game once it’s live, some people will play a lot OR grind mission to earn credits
Aaah now i get it.
They are going to be able to pay for all these servers by selling UEC to players.
The fewer missions players complete the more likely they are to buy UEC from CIG.
This explains all the challenges they had trying to complete the mission in the Gamescon Demo.
You are meant to fail it and crash your buggy so you have to buy UEC instead of earn it.
Sounds plausible.
Post by: Knight Solaire on August 31, 2017, 05:49:09 AM
No, not at all. :laugh:
Post by: dsmart on August 31, 2017, 06:05:30 AM
But it's not :10bux: Pay-to-Win :10bux:
No, not at all. :laugh:
LOL!! Yeah. We're all still laughing at that one. It's a PLEDGE!!!
Post by: dsmart on August 31, 2017, 08:13:23 AM
Post by: Motto on August 31, 2017, 08:37:33 AM
The Australian goods and services tax (GST) applies to international sales of services and digital products provided to Australian consumers. This means overseas businesses will be required to pay GST on these sales from 1 July 2017. (https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/International-tax-for-business/GST-on-imported-services-and-digital-products/)
Post by: dsmart on August 31, 2017, 09:02:12 AM
You might want to remove that tweet. The GST currently applies to all digital goods as of 1 July 2017. It's the GST on physical goods that has been delayed, and in that case this will apply from 1 July 2018.
The Australian goods and services tax (GST) applies to international sales of services and digital products provided to Australian consumers. This means overseas businesses will be required to pay GST on these sales from 1 July 2017. (https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/International-tax-for-business/GST-on-imported-services-and-digital-products/)
Why would I remove it? I was tweeting a Kotaku article without adding anything related to the veracity of the sale.
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/903274372319858689
Post by: Motto on August 31, 2017, 09:18:29 AM
If they would correct the article, then it would be a good reference. It's no biggie, but still, it now has a ring to it if you know how to catch my drifiting thingy here so to speak of
Post by: dsmart on August 31, 2017, 09:28:16 AM
Technically, that is true. The article itself however is partly wrong. By still referring to it, you could be blamed for FUD and misleading backers etc. I wouldn't give them more ammo if it's not nessescary if I were you. But it's not wrong to tweet about it no. It's more of a "mweh" kinda feeling about it.
If they would correct the article, then it would be a good reference. It's no biggie, but still, it now has a ring to it if you know how to catch my drifiting thingy here so to speak of
They already updated the article. The onus is on them, not me.
Post by: Backer42 on August 31, 2017, 09:28:47 AM
Maybe some Australian should notify their consumer protection oversight. I wouldn't be surprised if this kind of marketing is banned there anyway (I don't know for sure though).
Post by: mezla1058 on August 31, 2017, 08:29:07 PM
Post by: Motto on August 31, 2017, 10:47:41 PM
Wondering if the Aussie Gov could be easily notified of the GST money CIG is not giving them...
Post by: StanTheMan on September 01, 2017, 04:45:36 AM
BTW, as I just mentioned in the previous comment - I am a long time software developer. Compilers and dev tools, desktop apps back when desktop apps were the thing, major scalable backend services for e-commerce companies, etc.
So when I tell you that reading the transcript of CR explaining how far they've gotten with SC and what's being shown and what's coming was without a doubt the most transparent and poorly done and blatant session of all off-the-cuff excuse making/obfuscation/bullshitting/outright fabrication I've ever heard then I mean the most over all the hundreds if not thousands of such things I've listened to from junior and senior developers and program managers over 40 years. (And I've done it a few times myself over that period, though, better, I flatter myself.)
Also: Stuff. Stuff. Stuff. And more stuff.
Serendipity .. listen to this EXPERT....you might kin learn something !
Post by: dsmart on September 01, 2017, 06:33:00 AM
The most crowd-funded game in history, and which dominated the news for so many years, isn't even a media footnote now. Thankfully, shills like PC Gamer still write about it.
Post by: Motto on September 01, 2017, 06:39:23 AM
Post by: the_wolfmann on September 01, 2017, 06:43:16 AM
The most crowd-funded game in history, and which dominated the news for so many years, isn't even a media footnote now.
This is entirely the community's doing. Noone dares to touch the SC subject with a 10 meter pole anymore. The ones that do are sure to succumb to severe backlash and even possibly DDoS attacks and the like. Every credible media source is waiting for them to either release the MVP or crash and burn to continue on their coverage.
What the zealous backers don't realize is that they've crippled the money-free marketing potential the project had, hence Sandi and Co. have to employ paying the media and incentivizing their backers to spread the word for them.
Post by: Backer42 on September 01, 2017, 06:43:18 AM
The most crowd-funded game in history, and which dominated the news for so many years, isn't even a media footnote now.Nobody of the clickbait people want to touch it after the Escapist disaster.
Post by: Motto on September 01, 2017, 07:49:21 AM
I can guarantee that CIG are neither registered for nor paying Australian GST to anyone.
https://www.ato.gov.au/about-ato/about-us/contact-us/report-fraud,-scams,-tax-evasion-or-a-tax-planning-scheme/ :smuggo:
Maybe the Aussie government can manage to open some books and get some financial details out in the open :D
Post by: dsmart on September 01, 2017, 03:19:00 PM
Wow, I wonder what people will make of this article which has popped up on GamaSutra:
Star Citizen Has a Huge Development Cost Problem (http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/MattBrady/20170817/303892/Star_Citizen_Has_a_Huge_Development_Cost_Problem.php)
Star Citizen: A Close Look at the Cash (https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/MattBrady/20170901/304964/Star_Citizen_A_Close_Look_at_the_Cash.php) - PT-II
Post by: StanTheMan on September 01, 2017, 05:29:47 PM
Wow, I wonder what people will make of this article which has popped up on GamaSutra:
Star Citizen Has a Huge Development Cost Problem (http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/MattBrady/20170817/303892/Star_Citizen_Has_a_Huge_Development_Cost_Problem.php)
Star Citizen: A Close Look at the Cash (https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/MattBrady/20170901/304964/Star_Citizen_A_Close_Look_at_the_Cash.php) - PT-II
Why do you think he ramped up employee headcount so much ?
Hubris ?
Post by: Spunky Munkee on September 01, 2017, 07:17:42 PM
I don't understand it, He always said that the backers are effectively the publishers and you guys will tell me when to stop (scope creep). It looks like they are telling him pretty loud and clear. Yes the chart shows a bump in funding but we don't know if it's true, and we always expect a big bump in funding after conventions, plus he sold a new pixel dream bauble for sale.
So in short this is like Hitler's Battle of the Bulge, throw everything at it and try and save the project. So goes my theory. Once again, If Roberts had not unilaterally stripped the backers, his partners, of the financial transparency he had promised, everybody would know where things stand. Regardless of whether he was trying to conceal a weak financial position, or he was covering up something much worse, he undeniably had his motives for stripping backers rights and reneging on his end of the bargain. Too bad backers did not realize that this was not going to be the last deal Roberts would break with his backers.
Who knows, I would not mind seeing a poll to see why backers are slowing down with their pledges, is it the missed deliveries, his breaking trust by reversing his previous promises or something else? Time will tell.
I hope Derek does a tell all forensic investigation book called of the"Death of a Starman" doing a blow by blow on the rise and fall of the largest crowd funded game ever. Nobody could possibly do a better job telling the story than Derek.
Post by: Backer42 on September 01, 2017, 08:49:57 PM
I think it's like playing poker. Last bets before ya show em. If this collapses so does his entire life. No job, No career, who knows maybe no wife.They don't need a job anymore, thanks to "crowdfunding" the couple amassed quite a bit of wealth. They already sold the Star Citizen IP with all assets off to a bank for a loan, so the golden parachute is ready, too. Really, you don't have to pity the people at the top, they are more well than ever.
Post by: ecg on September 01, 2017, 09:12:55 PM
https://www.pcinvasion.com/star-citizen-3-0-bugs-continue-gamescom
They end the article with a nice bit of sarcasm -
"Star Citizen development continues to chug along and CIG is still pushing their ship sales to bring in the cash. Nothing changes. 3.0 is now expected in October but don’t hold your breath, it’s looking a little ropey at the moment. 3.0 for 2018 perhaps? We urge you to throw as much cash at this as possible. Clear your bank out and sell the house. They desperately need the money to make this a functional game because 158 million is not enough."
Complete with delusional comments:
"This is perfectly normal. Big testing events will always increase the bug list. This is good. It means 3.0 will be polished and stable. They are still on track time-wise, no one that knows how game development works did expected 3.0 before 2018 any way."
Post by: dsmart on September 02, 2017, 04:31:26 AM
I think it's like playing poker. Last bets before ya show em. If this collapses so does his entire life. No job, No career, who knows maybe no wife. So he throws all his reserves at it trying to get 3.0out and that it will increase consumer confidence and save the operation through a reemergence in citizen spending. I have no doubt that the shift in the mood of the rank and file backers has hit Roberts interests hard. It seems as if his scope of work was predicated upon continued levels of backer funding. Somehow he seems befuddled as to why people are withholding support.
I don't understand it, He always said that the backers are effectively the publishers and you guys will tell me when to stop (scope creep). It looks like they are telling him pretty loud and clear. Yes the chart shows a bump in funding but we don't know if it's true, and we always expect a big bump in funding after conventions, plus he sold a new pixel dream bauble for sale.
So in short this is like Hitler's Battle of the Bulge, throw everything at it and try and save the project. So goes my theory. Once again, If Roberts had not unilaterally stripped the backers, his partners, of the financial transparency he had promised, everybody would know where things stand. Regardless of whether he was trying to conceal a weak financial position, or he was covering up something much worse, he undeniably had his motives for stripping backers rights and reneging on his end of the bargain. Too bad backers did not realize that this was not going to be the last deal Roberts would break with his backers.
Who knows, I would not mind seeing a poll to see why backers are slowing down with their pledges, is it the missed deliveries, his breaking trust by reversing his previous promises or something else? Time will tell.
I hope Derek does a tell all forensic investigation book called of the"Death of a Starman" doing a blow by blow on the rise and fall of the largest crowd funded game ever. Nobody could possibly do a better job telling the story than Derek.
:five: :five: :five:
As I have always said, regardless of my personal feelings and bias (http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/5654/) (which only ignited when they came after me for writing a blog voicing my own opinions), I have no reason to believe that Chris set out to defraud anyone. When money is involved, lies big and small, tend to happen. People looking for money from investors tend to lie, cajole, misrepresent, fake it till you make it etc. It happens more often than not.
I believe that once the money started rolling in, he got careless, overconfident, and all the same mistakes he made with previous ventures (ALL of which failed btw) started to happen again.
What some people forget is that Chris was done making games. He really just wanted to make movies after the Wing Commander bug hit. That's why, unlike other industry people who have stuck around through failure after failure, he left for over a decade. Went to Hollywood, failed there, then came back.
What most people are forgetting here is that in his attempts to get backers to give him money, just like he would to an investor, he made all kinds of promises to backers. He put some of those promises (e.g. refunds, won't treat you like a publisher, financial disclosure etc) in writing. Then, four years later after I raised the points in my blog that he was headed for trouble, and then pointed out all backer rights, they made a drastic June 2016 change. What should have been a huge Red flag, was shouted down by Shitizens. And that was barely a year ago. Look where the project is today. Imagine if backers had stopped giving him money, held him to those promises, accountability etc.
I don't care what anyone says, the failure of the project is imminent and there is nothing they can do build the game promised, let alone complete the project. Everything is just noise now.
Post by: dsmart on September 02, 2017, 04:34:35 AM
New article on PCInvasion:
https://www.pcinvasion.com/star-citizen-3-0-bugs-continue-gamescom
They end the article with a nice bit of sarcasm -
"Star Citizen development continues to chug along and CIG is still pushing their ship sales to bring in the cash. Nothing changes. 3.0 is now expected in October but don’t hold your breath, it’s looking a little ropey at the moment. 3.0 for 2018 perhaps? We urge you to throw as much cash at this as possible. Clear your bank out and sell the house. They desperately need the money to make this a functional game because 158 million is not enough."
Complete with delusional comments:
"This is perfectly normal. Big testing events will always increase the bug list. This is good. It means 3.0 will be polished and stable. They are still on track time-wise, no one that knows how game development works did expected 3.0 before 2018 any way."
Yeah, I saw that last night and was going to link it this morning. Those guys are literally the only ones left writing about the project in a critical but fair manner. All others like PC Gamer, GameStar.de are just shilling the project, while ignoring the problems. Of course we have the blatant articles by whatever reputation management company they hired as well.
I posted earlier this week (http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=27.msg3447#msg3447) that during GC2017, a huge event, Star Citizen barely made the news. That's terrible for the most crowd-funded project in history. Nobody wants to touch it anymore because they know what's coming, and they don't want to be on the wrong side of it.
Post by: dsmart on September 02, 2017, 07:13:46 AM
Wow, I wonder what people will make of this article which has popped up on GamaSutra:
Star Citizen Has a Huge Development Cost Problem (http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/MattBrady/20170817/303892/Star_Citizen_Has_a_Huge_Development_Cost_Problem.php)
Star Citizen: A Close Look at the Cash (https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/MattBrady/20170901/304964/Star_Citizen_A_Close_Look_at_the_Cash.php) - PT-II
There is a single hilarious comment (https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/MattBrady/20170901/304964/Star_Citizen_A_Close_Look_at_the_Cash.php#comment296143) in the article. See below.
Quote
It's very speculative, you only know the public crowd funded money and nothing else (and yes subscriptions and some other things are not reflected in that number). I find very likely CIG does have private investment in the back, it's rather logical if you look at Elite Dangerous, Dual Universe, Ashes of Creation and others all crowd funded yet most of their funds did come from investors.
One massive miss in your entire analogy is that companies can scale development, and unlike other companies where they have a set budget and once that runs out it falls into bankruptcy, CIG has one constant revenue generation from its ongoing crowdfund, so unlike other companies in said situation where mass layoffs lead to bankruptcy, CIG here can simply scale down the company to their income and continue development
So even if CIG runs out of money today, they can just adjust their operating costs to around 2 million a month, and the ongoing crowdfund would maintain their operations, this analysis (1) shows that steady income:
(1) https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tMAP0fg-AKScI3S3VjrDW3OaLO4zgBA1RSYoQOQoNSI
Another flaw of yours is that CIG already admitted that there is a dependency on the money they keep crowd funding and they already made statements that if they weren't to get any more money, they would be able to finish SQ42 and the completion of Star Citizen would depend on the sales of the SP Campaign game, as well statements that they scale the number of people that work in CIG based on their monthly income. While they have cash reserves they do have one crowdfund and they will focus on that and only use the reserves if they don't crowdfund enough to cover their costs.
My response was posted elsewhere, as I opted not to post it there, and have Shitizens descend on the guy's blog post.
Quote
I have now read both parts of that article, which does indeed paint a very bleak picture, however the lone (as of right now) comment below Part 2 raises some points that I’m curious about. Instead of re-phrasing his points, I’ll just quote him here. I have not been following this debacle enough to know the answers, but I know that you have been.
You can just discard the comment out of hand because it's all rubbish, no doubt written by one of the zealots.
Quote
you only know the public crowd funded money and nothing else (and yes subscriptions and some other things are not reflected in that number). I find very likely CIG does have private investment in the back,
I knew two investors, one pulled out last year and wrote a public post about it. That's not speculation - it's a fact. And that investment money, according to sources, was long since spent of course. These guys are acting as if CIG has a well full of Gold coins. This despite the fact that they continue to have these JPEG (one going on right now) sales, amid other flash (two going on right now) sales.
Quote
One massive miss in your entire analogy is that companies can scale development, and unlike other companies where they have a set budget and once that runs out it falls into bankruptcy, CIG has one constant revenue generation from its ongoing crowdfund, so unlike other companies in said situation where mass layoffs lead to bankruptcy, CIG here can simply scale down the company to their income and continue development
This is pure nonsense. Of course they can scale; that's a given. However, the way CIG has the 5 studios structured around the world, pretty much guarantees a catastrophic collapse if they scale to the point of leaving a skeleton crew at any specific studio. e.g. the engine guys are in F42-GER, sysops and PU crew at in CIG-TX, while F42-UK (which is Chris's $75M gift to his brother) is where SQ42 and other things are supposedly being developed. And a 5th studio also in the UK (Derby) is a bunch of guys working on, get this, facial tech.
Yes, they will be forced to scale down, and they have been doing that since last year and an a fashion that won't cause panic. This is also a fact because well, those of us in the biz, know everybody. The trouble they are faced with in this regard is that when key people leave, they have to hire new people who have to then have to get up to speed on such a complex and mismanagement project. That ends up in delays, and all the crap we're seeing unfolding atm.
When you look at the F42-UK financials (the only public one), it's easy to see that they've been bleeding/wasting money consistently since the very beginning. And the most they've scaled up, the more money they've raised and subsequently spent. It's that expenditure that's causing them to continue using all kinds of tactics to raise money from the 2K or so whales still giving them money.
The funding chart, which doesn't take into account refunds, investments, loans etc, is bullshit. What we don't know is, to what extent. I know with absolutely certainty (and challenged CIG to prove me wrong) that they used it to show interest in the project. Then it got out of hand. It's like that thief who keeps going to the same place because he gets away with it. It's the same thing that causes anything to do with metrics, to be speculative. e.g. Facebook can claim 1 billion users, regardless of duplicates. So too can CIG when they claim 1.5m citizens, when in fact, according to metrics scrubbed from their own file stats, there are barely 500K backers with various amounts.
And if you look at that funding chart, it never goes below a certain amount. In fact, they would have you believe that a bunch of gamers are CONSISTENTLY putting money into a tech demo. Gamers don't do that. So it stands to reason that the monthly subscriptions are probably part of that, hence the consistent bottom line number. If that funding chart were to suddenly be a low levels, it would send a clear message that the funding has slowed down.
And for a project in which lies, obfuscation, and misdirection are everything, that would shake the faith of the few. So CIG has to no option but to continue padding it. And it's perfectly legal too, as long as they don't use it raise money. e.g. a gamer looking at a website , has no legal recourse to say that he backed the game because of a funding chart. That's a quick candidate to get tossed out of arbitration. However, if an investor or banker gets financials from CIG that shows numbers which match the funding chart, and later is found to be false, that's fraud - and jail time.
Quote
So even if CIG runs out of money today, they can just adjust their operating costs to around 2 million a month, and the ongoing crowdfund would maintain their operations, this analysis (1) shows that steady income:
It's hilarious that this commentator thinks that merely scaling down will yield desirable results. It won't. Simply because, 6 years, $160M, and 500 people (off and on) in, they have yet to build even 15% of the game promised (https://starcitizentracker.github.io/). So how exactly are they going to finish the rest of the game with less money and less people?
Quote
Another flaw of yours is that CIG already admitted that there is a dependency on the money they keep crowd funding and they already made statements that if they weren’t to get any more money, they would be able to finish SQ42 and the completion of Star Citizen would depend on the sales of the SP Campaign game, as well statements that they scale the number of people that work in CIG based on their monthly income. While they have cash reserves they do have one crowdfund and they will focus on that and only use the reserves if they don’t crowdfund enough to cover their costs.
He calls it a "flaw" because he doesn't know shit.
The fact that Chris went on the record and said that if money stopped coming in, they could still finish Star Citizen from sales of SQ42, should be a huge Red flag for a lot of reasons. One of them being, after $160M, not only do they NOT have either game in any Beta state, but SQ42 hasn't been seen since Dec 2015. And to think that sales of a SPACE GAME which most of us believe will be disastrous if it ever gets released, is ever going to generate the $3M or so it takes to run all 5 studios, is hilarious AF. Not to mention that you can buy SQ for $45, and get SQ42 for an additional $15, for a total of $60 package. And to think they can sell SQ42 by itself for more than $29.99 to new buyers, especially since most of those who are entitled to it, already HAVE it, is the most hilarious thing ever.
"Long ago I stopped looking at this game the way I did when I worked for a publisher who gave me a fixed budget to make a retail game. I now look at our monthly fundraising and use that to set the amount of resources being used to develop this game. We keep a healthy cash reserve so that if funding stopped tomorrow we would still be able to deliver Star Citizen (not quite to the current level of ambition, but well above what was planned in Oct 2012)." Chris Roberts, Sept 2014 (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14184-Letter-From-The-Chairman) after raising $54M.
"First of all, we always have a decent amount of money in reserve, so if all support would collapse, we would not suddenly be incapacitated. We plan the scope of the development based on what arrives monthly by the people to support. I’m not worried, because even if no money came in, we would have sufficient funds to complete Squadron 42. The revenue from this could in-turn be used for the completion of Star Citizen." Chris Roberts, Jan 2017 (https://www.pcinvasion.com/squadron-42-fund-star-citizen-cash) after raising $141M
These are statements from the guy who raised $65M in Nov 2014 and which was all he said he needed to build the over scoped project. And after raising double that - even with the funding chart discrepancies - is talking about contingency plans if money stopped coming in. Because yeah, that's totally normally and not at all disturbing.
It's all so hilarious really. But wait for what comes next. It truly is hilarious. Can't say more about that for now.
ps: If you haven't yet, you should read my The Fidelity Of Failure (http://dereksmart.com/2016/06/star-citizen-fidelity-of-failure/) blog
Post by: dsmart on September 03, 2017, 07:39:21 AM
Post by: MattBrady on September 03, 2017, 06:03:59 PM
Post by: MattBrady on September 03, 2017, 06:38:41 PM
The fact that Chris went on the record and said that if money stopped coming in, they could still finish Star Citizen from sales of SQ42, should be a huge Red flag for a lot of reasons. One of them being, after $160M, not only do they NOT have either game in any Beta state, but SQ42 hasn't been seen since Dec 2015. And to think that sales of a SPACE GAME which most of us believe will be disastrous if it ever gets released, is ever going to generate the $3M or so it takes to run all 5 studios, is hilarious AF. Not to mention that you can buy SQ for $45, and get SQ42 for an additional $15, for a total of $60 package. And to think they can sell SQ42 by itself for more than $29.99 to new buyers, especially since most of those who are entitled to it, already HAVE it, is the most hilarious thing ever.
"Long ago I stopped looking at this game the way I did when I worked for a publisher who gave me a fixed budget to make a retail game. I now look at our monthly fundraising and use that to set the amount of resources being used to develop this game. We keep a healthy cash reserve so that if funding stopped tomorrow we would still be able to deliver Star Citizen (not quite to the current level of ambition, but well above what was planned in Oct 2012)." Chris Roberts, Sept 2014 (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14184-Letter-From-The-Chairman) after raising $54M.
"First of all, we always have a decent amount of money in reserve, so if all support would collapse, we would not suddenly be incapacitated. We plan the scope of the development based on what arrives monthly by the people to support. I’m not worried, because even if no money came in, we would have sufficient funds to complete Squadron 42. The revenue from this could in-turn be used for the completion of Star Citizen." Chris Roberts, Jan 2017 (https://www.pcinvasion.com/squadron-42-fund-star-citizen-cash) after raising $141M
These are statements from the guy who raised $65M in Nov 2014 and which was all he said he needed to build the over scoped project. And after raising double that - even with the funding chart discrepancies - is talking about contingency plans if money stopped coming in. Because yeah, that's totally normally and not at all disturbing.
The goalposts continue to shift. It started with the "we have all the money we need to build this huge project in a few years." Now it's "we can cover dev costs with forward sales;" or even "we have investors and potentially other revenue sources and can scale back operations to lower the burn rate." I have to wonder about SQ 42 as well. A lot of the systems and mechanics necessary for SQ42 are still being perfected in the Alpha. Chris let his imagination get way ahead of him on this and completely lost touch with what it would actually take to fulfill his promises.
Post by: MattBrady on September 03, 2017, 06:50:06 PM
They end the article with a nice bit of sarcasm -
"Star Citizen development continues to chug along and CIG is still pushing their ship sales to bring in the cash. Nothing changes. 3.0 is now expected in October but don’t hold your breath, it’s looking a little ropey at the moment. 3.0 for 2018 perhaps? We urge you to throw as much cash at this as possible. Clear your bank out and sell the house. They desperately need the money to make this a functional game because 158 million is not enough."
I've seen a couple reddit threads questioning the constant stream of new ship development, but they haven't put it together yet. It defies all logic to continue to dedicate resources to develop new assets when the existing ones aren't complete. It defies logic to run so many sales and discounts years before release. These things defy logic, unless this is an ongoing attempt to stimulate sales and keep cash flowing in. So has Chris lost his mind, or are they running every play to keep this thing afloat?
But even if they can manage a release, will it be as promised? Will they be able to afford any significant ad buys to promote the release? Will the community be able to avoid implosion before release? Backer reactions after the latest Alpha delay and gamescomm demo were surprisingly negative. I think many are beginning to turn against them. for a crowdfunded project that relies heavily on it's backers for Word-of-mouth advertising, that would be disastrous.
Post by: Backer42 on September 03, 2017, 08:02:01 PM
Thanks for the mention Derek. Good to see some like minds on this. The frustrating thing is, I want Star Citizen to succeed, even though I'm not a backer. If it fails, the repercussions for game crowdfunding could be quite severe. I'd hate to see crowdfunding slow for games as a result of all of this. Seems like gamers have been burnt quite a few times lately from all sides. AAAs like Mass Effect Andromeda, to No Man's Sky to Star Citizen.Crowdfunding never was viable for video games and Star Citizen proved this.
Post by: Spunky Munkee on September 03, 2017, 09:45:03 PM
These backers are almost begging to be abused. No I don't think it's right but I have given up on helping them, now I just want to ridicule them. They are like battered wives who keep going back for more, ya cant fix stupid.
Post by: Motto on September 03, 2017, 10:53:05 PM
Crowdfunding never was viable for video games and Star Citizen proved this.
There is nothing wrong with crowdfunding for videogames. People keep on pointing to NMS as an example, but that's not fair. NMS did deliver what they promised. It was the backer community that went wild with speculation and created their own version(s) of the game. Hello Games didn't - and most likey couldn't have - correct those wild visions. Since then, they have continued to build and support the game. They even included some of the elements the backers went wild about in their visions. And how about Frontier's Elite Dangerous? Or look at Dual Universe right now.
You just have to handle and manage it well. Something Chris is unable to do.
Post by: GaryII on September 03, 2017, 11:54:11 PM
People keep on pointing to NMS as an example, but that's not fair. NMS did deliver what they promised.
Also on NMS people only spend 60$ to pre-order and that's it...that's nothing if you compare to SC chariot prices...for 60$ in SC you can get only starter packages...
After all updates NMS is better, but I doubt that its lived up to hype for all people who pre-ordered it...
Post by: Aya Reiko on September 03, 2017, 11:57:41 PM
We're getting a little off-topic here, but...Crowdfunding never was viable for video games and Star Citizen proved this.
There is nothing wrong with crowdfunding for videogames. People keep on pointing to NMS as an example, but that's not fair. NMS did deliver what they promised. It was the backer community that went wild with speculation and created their own version(s) of the game. Hello Games didn't - and most likey couldn't have - correct those wild visions. Since then, they have continued to build and support the game. They even included some of the elements the backers went wild about in their visions. And how about Frontier's Elite Dangerous? Or look at Dual Universe right now.
You just have to handle and manage it well. Something Chris is unable to do.
HG, especially Sean Murray, kinda did over-inflate the hype train by claiming or implying features that weren't there was going to in the game, such as multiplayer, desert worlds, and planetary physics.
One has to wonder what'll happen if SC ever releases. (*snirk* It won't. :3:)
Post by: Motto on September 04, 2017, 02:29:49 AM
HG, especially Sean Murray, kinda did over-inflate the hype train by claiming or implying features that weren't there was going to in the game, such as multiplayer, desert worlds, and planetary physics.
Actually, he didn't. When NMS was released and didn't meet the expectations of the buyers,they all started to search and prove that features that were promised where lacking. They couldn't find them. It's not that he said they were there, it's more that he didn't correct them when they said they were there. They all assumed it would be mutliplayer but it never was. Sean said that he thought it would be highly unlikeable that people would meet due to the size. Then 2 people met and couldn't interact and all hell broke loose. But Sean never said you could interact since it wasn't a multiplayer to begin with. Things like that.
Post by: dsmart on September 04, 2017, 05:17:51 AM
Thanks for the mention Derek. Good to see some like minds on this. The frustrating thing is, I want Star Citizen to succeed, even though I'm not a backer. If it fails, the repercussions for game crowdfunding could be quite severe. I'd hate to see crowdfunding slow for games as a result of all of this. Seems like gamers have been burnt quite a few times lately from all sides. AAAs like Mass Effect Andromeda, to No Man's Sky to Star Citizen.
We all wanted it to succeed; that's why we backed it. But of course, once things started going sideways and most of us started sounding the alarm bells, we became the enemy.
I have written several times about the repercussions to videogame crowdfunding when (IMO it's no longer a matter if) this project collapses. And a lot of our industry colleagues are well aware of the ramifications. And it's not just Star Citizen, there have been several other videogame projects which either failed completely, or failed to live up to expectations upon release. And Tom over at ICO has been tracking these trends since 2014 when the post-Star Citizen shift started.
Video games declining on Kickstarter - ICO (http://icopartners.com/2017/07/kickstarter-and-games-2017-mid-year-status-update/)
Crowdfunding for video games was way down in 2016 (https://www.polygon.com/2017/2/6/14311836/crowdfunding-video-games-down-in-2016-kickstarter-fig-gambitious)
Kickstarter seeing steep decline in money pledged to video games in 2016, says analysis (https://www.polygon.com/2016/7/2/12087460/kickstarter-declines-2016-funding)
State of crowdfunding for games – first half of 2016 (http://icopartners.com/2016/07/state-crowdfunding-games-first-half-2016/)
Post by: dsmart on September 04, 2017, 05:37:45 AM
The fact that Chris went on the record and said that if money stopped coming in, they could still finish Star Citizen from sales of SQ42, should be a huge Red flag for a lot of reasons. One of them being, after $160M, not only do they NOT have either game in any Beta state, but SQ42 hasn't been seen since Dec 2015. And to think that sales of a SPACE GAME which most of us believe will be disastrous if it ever gets released, is ever going to generate the $3M or so it takes to run all 5 studios, is hilarious AF. Not to mention that you can buy SQ for $45, and get SQ42 for an additional $15, for a total of $60 package. And to think they can sell SQ42 by itself for more than $29.99 to new buyers, especially since most of those who are entitled to it, already HAVE it, is the most hilarious thing ever.
"Long ago I stopped looking at this game the way I did when I worked for a publisher who gave me a fixed budget to make a retail game. I now look at our monthly fundraising and use that to set the amount of resources being used to develop this game. We keep a healthy cash reserve so that if funding stopped tomorrow we would still be able to deliver Star Citizen (not quite to the current level of ambition, but well above what was planned in Oct 2012)." Chris Roberts, Sept 2014 (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14184-Letter-From-The-Chairman) after raising $54M.
"First of all, we always have a decent amount of money in reserve, so if all support would collapse, we would not suddenly be incapacitated. We plan the scope of the development based on what arrives monthly by the people to support. I’m not worried, because even if no money came in, we would have sufficient funds to complete Squadron 42. The revenue from this could in-turn be used for the completion of Star Citizen." Chris Roberts, Jan 2017 (https://www.pcinvasion.com/squadron-42-fund-star-citizen-cash) after raising $141M
These are statements from the guy who raised $65M in Nov 2014 and which was all he said he needed to build the over scoped project. And after raising double that - even with the funding chart discrepancies - is talking about contingency plans if money stopped coming in. Because yeah, that's totally normally and not at all disturbing.
The goalposts continue to shift. It started with the "we have all the money we need to build this huge project in a few years." Now it's "we can cover dev costs with forward sales;" or even "we have investors and potentially other revenue sources and can scale back operations to lower the burn rate."
Yeah. If you look at the key dates in this article (http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/5685/) (points 3-6) I wrote, the pattern is very easy to spot from 2012 to now. It really isn't brain surgery; these are actual facts.
Quote
In Jan 2017, Chris Roberts made the following statements:
“First of all, we always have a decent amount of money in reserve, so if all support would collapse, we would not suddenly be incapacitated. We plan the scope of the development based on what arrives monthly by the people to support. I’m not worried, because even if no money came in, we would have sufficient funds to complete Squadron 42. The revenue from this could in-turn be used for the completion of Star Citizen.” – $141M raised.
In Aug 2016 (at GamesCom), Chris Roberts made the following statements:
“..so, it’s our big end of the year release. er so er yeah, so we’re gonna get it out the end of the year; hopefully not on December 19th but, er, like last year….but it is a big one, so, not making er, I got shot for making promises, but er, that’s our goal.” – $118M raised.
In Sept 2014, Chris Roberts made the following statements:
“Long ago I stopped looking at this game the way I did when I worked for a publisher who gave me a fixed budget to make a retail game. I now look at our monthly fundraising and use that to set the amount of resources being used to develop this game. We keep a healthy cash reserve so that if funding stopped tomorrow we would still be able to deliver Star Citizen (not quite to the current level of ambition, but well above what was planned in Oct 2012).” – $54M raised.
In Apr 2013, Chris Roberts made the following statements:
“In the old model as a developer I would have captured 20 cents on the dollar,” Roberts said. “Ultimately that means I can make the same game for a fifth of the revenue, a fifth of the sales, and I can be more profitable, and I can exist on lower unit sales. I think that’s good for gamers, because crowdfunding and digital distribution are enabling more nichey stuff to be viable. It’s also allowing gamers to have their voice heard, and have their influence earlier in the process. You don’t really have your input into how Call of Duty’s being made.” – $8.6M raised
In Oct 2012, Chris Roberts made the following statements:
“Really it is all about constant iteration from launch. The whole idea is to be constantly updating. It isn’t like the old days where you had to have everything and the kitchen sink in at launch because you weren’t going to come back to it for awhile. We’re already one year in – another two years puts us at 3 total which is ideal. Any more and things would begin to get stale.” – $2.5M raised.
Quote
I have to wonder about SQ 42 as well. A lot of the systems and mechanics necessary for SQ42 are still being perfected in the Alpha. Chris let his imagination get way ahead of him on this and completely lost touch with what it would actually take to fulfill his promises.
We haven't seen any working part of SQ42 since the awful Morrow Tour (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qexLUpQJPw8) was trotted out in during CitizenCon in Dec 2015. Since that game relies on ALL the tech being built for SC, there is no way that they can release it before those currently incomplete and buggy systems are finished. That's why it is still MIA.
The issue is that they could simply haven't built SQ42 with what they had, and since it didn't have multiplayer, could have expanded on it into Star Citizen after that. But the problem is 1) they won't have made much money of it 2) once they discovered that more money could be made by selling ship assets (JPEG or not), it became more about raising money, than about making a game.
So now they're stuck with two largely incomplete projects, without an engine or features to power them.
The hilarious part is that, SQ42 takes place in the same universe as SC. And six years later, they still haven't built the space world, there is no jumping between systems, there are only three bases etc. So that pretty much tells you all you need to know about the state of SQ42. You can't build a game that has no completed engine tech, no completed world or no completed assets.
In all my games, the engines are always completed first, then the game goes on top. And back in 2007 when we started building an improved engine for use in a smaller game, we built two games (All Aspect Warfare / Angle Of Attack (http://3000ad.com/games/)), one a combined arms game, and the other an aerial combat game. Both from the same engine, world, and assets; and both released at the same time. So, I know precisely what they're trying to do, and what they're up against.
Post by: dsmart on September 04, 2017, 06:03:59 AM
They end the article with a nice bit of sarcasm -
"Star Citizen development continues to chug along and CIG is still pushing their ship sales to bring in the cash. Nothing changes. 3.0 is now expected in October but don’t hold your breath, it’s looking a little ropey at the moment. 3.0 for 2018 perhaps? We urge you to throw as much cash at this as possible. Clear your bank out and sell the house. They desperately need the money to make this a functional game because 158 million is not enough."
I've seen a couple reddit threads questioning the constant stream of new ship development, but they haven't put it together yet. It defies all logic to continue to dedicate resources to develop new assets when the existing ones aren't complete. It defies logic to run so many sales and discounts years before release. These things defy logic, unless this is an ongoing attempt to stimulate sales and keep cash flowing in. So has Chris lost his mind, or are they running every play to keep this thing afloat?
But even if they can manage a release, will it be as promised? Will they be able to afford any significant ad buys to promote the release? Will the community be able to avoid implosion before release? Backer reactions after the latest Alpha delay and gamescomm demo were surprisingly negative. I think many are beginning to turn against them. for a crowdfunded project that relies heavily on it's backers for Word-of-mouth advertising, that would be disastrous.
It defies logic because it's about making money. They've been on the "Fake it til you make it" bandwagon for sometime now. Which is precisely why, when they switched to LumberYard engine - which I wrote about here (http://dereksmart.com/2016/12/star-citizen-irreconcilable-differences/) - didn't disclose it to backers even after claiming to have spent a year on it, then basically lied about how long the integration took, it became obvious that this was going to take a LOT longer, and as a result, they needed to keep raising money.
Every single thing they have done, has been about raising money in order to continue development until they can build something resembling the "games" they promised back in Oct 2012, and which, at $65M, was already 100% funded back in Nov 2014. Those who are ignoring or not understanding this, are either fools, or complicit in these activities.
They even allocate resources to creating elaborate commercials for the ships they are selling. The latest being the 600i luxury ship they just trotted out at GC2017.
Not to mention the Coutts loan, one of two, that they took out in the UK and which I wrote about in this blog (http://dereksmart.com/2017/06/star-citizen-final-countdown/).
The one major issue that most are ignoring so far is that when this project eventually collapses, there would be no way for backers to play the game. It is 100% multiplayer, relies on AWS, and there is no way to run it without AWS. Even the dev versions they are running at these events, still need access to AWS, though the clients (and possibly the server itself) are running no a local LAN. So when the project fails, the game - whatever form it's in - goes with it. That's what happens with all MMO and online only games which don't allow gamers to setup their own servers etc.
Post by: dsmart on September 04, 2017, 06:04:51 AM
Thanks for the mention Derek. Good to see some like minds on this. The frustrating thing is, I want Star Citizen to succeed, even though I'm not a backer. If it fails, the repercussions for game crowdfunding could be quite severe. I'd hate to see crowdfunding slow for games as a result of all of this. Seems like gamers have been burnt quite a few times lately from all sides. AAAs like Mass Effect Andromeda, to No Man's Sky to Star Citizen.Crowdfunding never was viable for video games and Star Citizen proved this.
So how do you explain all the crowd-funded games which have been funded, developed, and released? And there are MANY of them.
The only thing that Star Citizen proves is that throwing money at a problem rarely solves it. Also, don't give money to scam artists and snake oil salesmen.
Post by: dsmart on September 04, 2017, 06:06:23 AM
Yep, so long as you keep handing Robert your cash he will continue dicking the dog and wasting your money. Backers cant figure this one out. All they see it We must continue to support the project until its complete. Round and round it goes.
These backers are almost begging to be abused. No I don't think it's right but I have given up on helping them, now I just want to ridicule them. They are like battered wives who keep going back for more, ya cant fix stupid.
It's Sunk Cost Fallacy. That, and those who are using it to launder money.
Post by: dsmart on September 04, 2017, 09:21:46 AM
Post by: Orgetorix on September 04, 2017, 09:44:44 AM
Thanks for the mention Derek. Good to see some like minds on this. The frustrating thing is, I want Star Citizen to succeed, even though I'm not a backer. If it fails, the repercussions for game crowdfunding could be quite severe. I'd hate to see crowdfunding slow for games as a result of all of this. Seems like gamers have been burnt quite a few times lately from all sides. AAAs like Mass Effect Andromeda, to No Man's Sky to Star Citizen.Crowdfunding never was viable for video games and Star Citizen proved this.
So how do you explain all the crowd-funded games which have been funded, developed, and released? And there are MANY of them.
The only thing that Star Citizen proves is that throwing money at a problem rarely solves it. Also, don't give money to scam artists and snake oil salesmen.
There certainly are many of them, and many are niche games that would never have been made if it wasn't for crowd funding.
Post by: helimoth on September 04, 2017, 10:13:54 AM
Post by: Fool Me Once on September 04, 2017, 10:52:10 AM
So now they're stuck with two largely incomplete projects, without an engine or features to power them.
This is something I could never understand. Just WHAT were they doing with all those people working for them? Going forward without an engine is like building a house with no foundation, it just won´t work. I admit, in the early days I was quite ignorant of things, so when the Kickstarter video showed "in engine" I had foolishly assumed they already had an engine that was mostly working and finished. Clearly, it couldn´t be further from the truth.
But ok, lets put that aside. WHY have they not bothered to get an finalized engine before spending so much cash? I can understand they needed to raise as much cash as possible, but as we´ve seen its not like it takes a lot of resources to push out concept sales so why have such a large staff in the first place?
I´m just salty I guess, what a waste this has all been. I know some (used to be more) believe CIG has a giant and growing library of game assets and that´s where the money has gone, but I don´t think so. They would show more if they had more. With the latest lacklustre presentation they really needed to show more than they did, even lots of static completed assets would serve to reassure the backers.
Post by: Motto on September 04, 2017, 12:34:21 PM
Your comment is awaiting approval.
It’s much worse than written here. Star Citizen has all the makings of a scam by now and will never see the light of day. For a serious indepth background on Star Citizen, you should read http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/5685/ and https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/355735-Star-Citizen-Thread-v6?p=5878839&viewfull=1#post5878839
Probably because of the url's I put in. So just 2b sure, I added another comment:
There is a lot of discussion about Star Citizen on the Internet whether or not the game - as originally promised by Chris Roberts - can and will be made at all. Derek Smart is a voice for those who think Star Citizen can't be made. If there is to be a discussion about Star Citizen, this part of the story should be mentioned as well.
Post by: Backer42 on September 04, 2017, 02:45:28 PM
So how do you explain all the crowd-funded games which have been funded, developed, and released? And there are MANY of them.In the classic funding model, the revenue of the one or two successful video game projects recoup the cost of other 8 or 9 failed ones (including ones canceled behind closed doors). This works well especially for consumers. There are too many failed video game projects, where customers not only ate all financial risk through crowdfunding, but also ended up with no product (game) at all. Giving money risking a 80+ % failure rate with happy accidents here and there is not a viable strategy for consumers. They also see nothing of the revenue if a projects succeeds, so it never evens out for them.
I enjoyed many games, which didn't recoup their development costs and still got finished and released, because some investor took the risk and recouped the cost with the another bestselling blockbuster, which made insane amounts of money instead. That's not possible with crowdfunding when the developer runs out of money and closes shop.
I'm a critic of video game crowdfunding now, because i learned my lesson. What MattBrady is afraid of already happened, at least in my case.
Post by: Resin on September 04, 2017, 09:25:09 PM
This works for physical items but in case of games you can just create some pretty rendered stuff and do your pitch. Star Citizen still don't have working demo of a game, they don't still have a working platform where to build their game on, they are still figuring that out. After 6 years.
Post by: StanTheMan on September 05, 2017, 03:25:59 AM
Also at least in case of Star Citizen I would argue it didn't went according to Kickstarter rules where you will have to have working prototype to be able to use the platform.
This works for physical items but in case of games you can just create some pretty rendered stuff and do your pitch. Star Citizen still don't have working demo of a game, they don't still have a working platform where to build their game on, they are still figuring that out. After 6 years.
Interesting.
I wonder if Backers will be able to use this to get to Kickstarter themselves when SC collapses ?
Post by: Motto on September 05, 2017, 03:39:15 AM
Post by: Resin on September 05, 2017, 04:35:34 AM
Edit: Well yeah, basically prototype is required only for physical items.
HTTPS://www.kickstarter.com/rules
Projects must be honest and clearly presented.
Our community is built on trust and communication. Projects can’t mislead people or misrepresent facts, and creators should be candid about what they plan to accomplish. When a project involves manufacturing and distributing something complex, like a gadget, we require projects to show backers a prototype of what they’re making, and we prohibit photorealistic renderings.
Projects can’t fundraise for charity.
Post by: Resin on September 05, 2017, 05:01:29 AM
Well, that was a trip down a memory lane. I went to check the original Star Citizen Kickstarter page: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen
"Risks and challenges
We are aiming for a AAA game experience. But depending on the funding levels reached, we may have to limit the experience for the initially released game version. Nonetheless, Chris Roberts and his teams have shown consistently that they are able to develop epic story-based games. Even with our very limited self-funding we have been able to do already a lot of work which is why we can show you not just concept art and a cinematic trailer, but an extensive demo of actual game play. So, we are confident that even with limited means we will be able to deliver an amazing experience."
So you could maybe think that if they could show "extensive demo of actual game play" back in October 2012, they would have something more to show after 5 years that they showed at Gamescom.
Post by: dsmart on September 05, 2017, 09:50:06 AM
Well, that was a trip down a memory lane. I went to check the original Star Citizen Kickstarter page: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen
"Risks and challenges
We are aiming for a AAA game experience. But depending on the funding levels reached, we may have to limit the experience for the initially released game version. Nonetheless, Chris Roberts and his teams have shown consistently that they are able to develop epic story-based games. Even with our very limited self-funding we have been able to do already a lot of work which is why we can show you not just concept art and a cinematic trailer, but an extensive demo of actual game play. So, we are confident that even with limited means we will be able to deliver an amazing experience."
So you could maybe think that if they could show "extensive demo of actual game play" back in October 2012, they would have something more to show after 5 years that they showed at Gamescom.
Not just that. It also shoots down all those arguments that development didn't start in 2011 (which is what Croberts said), and which Shitizens keep insisting only started in 2014 (<--- LOL!!) because "they were building offices, teams etc"; as if ALL those things didn't cost time, resources, and money.
We're in year SIX now.
Post by: Motto on September 05, 2017, 01:55:19 PM
And this one at Based Gamer is almost a year old, which makes it a funny read: Star Citizen Isn't A Scam, It's Ambitious (https://basedgamer.com/article/215/Star-Citizen)
Oh, back in June 2014 Chris was already not happy about being accused of scamming (http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/chris-roberts-frustrated-by-star-citizen-scam-accusations/0133497). He's come a long way since :D
Post by: dsmart on September 05, 2017, 04:59:52 PM
I just found this Outpost 2 article: Star Citizen: Chris Roberts’ SCAM (https://medium.com/outpost2/star-citizen-chris-roberts-scam-90f34a5627ab)
And this one at Based Gamer is almost a year old, which makes it a funny read: Star Citizen Isn't A Scam, It's Ambitious (https://basedgamer.com/article/215/Star-Citizen)
Oh, back in June 2014 Chris was already not happy about being accused of scamming (http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/chris-roberts-frustrated-by-star-citizen-scam-accusations/0133497). He's come a long way since :D
Yeah. I particularly like how Shitizens seem to think that the word "scam" started with me.
Post by: Spunky Munkee on September 05, 2017, 06:09:04 PM
I guess Roberts was really talking about the LONG run since it's been many years and we still have not seen a stable game yet. That was written mid 2014. Three years have passed and we are not any closer from the perspective of a player. Sure they can show buggy demos but there has been nothing released for the players. I wonder if Based Gamer @PharaohSteveis kicking himself in the ass for supporting Roberts?
I don't care about Space Marine, it's utter dogshit and the dogfight survival (forgot it's name lets call it the mini shitshow with it's horrible weightless ships and crappy useless turrets) or racing both get boring. Yeah Roberts must have some very long range plans, like for a stable better game in the next decade.
I'm going to call it, Roberts next foray will be a handheld version of Star Citizen for the Ipad. He will need the support of backers, just $65 and you will get early access to the Alpha. Then we find that he used the funds from the Ipad version to prop up the broken and crippled original Star Citizen. The funny thing is that some people will jump at the chance to be an early supporter despite his growing negative reputation.
Post by: Orgetorix on September 05, 2017, 07:48:20 PM
Yeah. I particularly like how Shitizens seem to think that the word "scam" started with me.
The word "Scam" is rather new to the parlance, subjectivity
GRIFT (Black's Law Dictionary (8th ed. 2004) , Page 2064)
grift,vb. Slang. To obtain money illicitly by adroit use of a scam, confidence game, or other
fraudulent means. — grifter,n.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scam
1 scam play
noun \ˈskam\
Examples: scam in a Sentence
Definition of scam
: a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation an insurance scam
NEW! Time Traveler
First Known Use: 1963
I highly doubt that you "coined" the term...
Having said that, the definitions should make anyone familiar with the matter at hand, take a second look, "LTI..."
Post by: Moeis on September 05, 2017, 08:48:31 PM
So how do you explain all the crowd-funded games which have been funded, developed, and released? And there are MANY of them.In the classic funding model, the revenue of the one or two successful video game projects recoup the cost of other 8 or 9 failed ones (including ones canceled behind closed doors). This works well especially for consumers. There are too many failed video game projects, where customers not only ate all financial risk through crowdfunding, but also ended up with no product (game) at all. Giving money risking a 80+ % failure rate with happy accidents here and there is not a viable strategy for consumers. They also see nothing of the revenue if a projects succeeds, so it never evens out for them.
I enjoyed many games, which didn't recoup their development costs and still got finished and released, because some investor took the risk and recouped the cost with the another bestselling blockbuster, which made insane amounts of money instead. That's not possible with crowdfunding when the developer runs out of money and closes shop.
I'm a critic of video game crowdfunding now, because i learned my lesson. What MattBrady is afraid of already happened, at least in my case.
I disagree with what you are saying. Some of the best games have released were kickstarter/crowd funded games, and these games would not have ever existed if it wasn't for the crowdfunding.
I crowd funded
Pillars of Eternity 1 and 2
Divine Divinity Orginal Sin 1 and 2
Overload
Aqaunox Deep Descent
Bard's Tale IV
Star Citizen
Overload and Aquanox have been showing great progress and are going to be releasing early next year.
Pillars of Eternity 1 and Divinity Divinity 1 were both excellent games and there is no reason why the part 2's will not release, actually DOS 2 is releasing in 9 days.
Bard's Tale IV is being developed by inxile and they have a great record in releasing fantastic crowd funded games, so no worries there either.
Star Citizen is the only odd ball one here, for more than 1 reason, but I am not worried about that project. I might start to get a little worried when they reach year 8 from when the kickstarter ended, if they have not released one of the games, So late 2020 early 2021.
Anyways, Kickstarter/crowdfund have been a great thing for PC gaming. If anything it has only changed to the point where people are just going to crowd fund games from already trusted developers with a good history of releasing good games whether those games were crowdfunded or not, at least for the big amount of money funded games.
Without the crowdfunded games, I fear we would be left with the massive amount of garbage that the AAA market (which is easily 95% of AAA gaming) has been shoveling out for more than a decade, where they put creativity and innovation into the trunk, or with the massive amount of indie games where 95% of them are garbage, and even then the good ones have a low production values. The Crowdfunding games give a way for developers to be more into the AA market, where they can make great games with creativity and innovation in the drivers seat and have a much higher production value than indie games.
Post by: Spunky Munkee on September 05, 2017, 09:22:55 PM
In the end, regardless of what you think about crowdfunding, this game is badly broken, low on capital, and is losing consumer confidence. It all points to it's demise. Sure there are people who will keep sending in money till the doors are shuttered but they just prolong the end.
Post by: Moeis on September 05, 2017, 09:55:58 PM
I bet Chris Roberts will be gratified to hear that you are willing to keep funding the game you want for however many more years are required. Most of us realize that with their broken mish mosh patched up game engine they probably won't ever get anywhere close to delivering anything remotely close to what he promised, at all. Given enough time and other people's money he might push out his minimally viable product (very minimal, more like an alpha ) and walk away from it, happy that he won't be up on charges.
In the end, regardless of what you think about crowdfunding, this game is badly broken, low on capital, and is losing consumer confidence. It all points to it's demise. Sure there are people who will keep sending in money till the doors are shuttered but they just prolong the end.
First of all I only have $60 into this, and won't be spending anymore I never spend more than $60 for any crowdfunded game.
I have seen extremely less ambitious games that were developed by more seasoned teams that took 7+ years to develop and were still excellent games when they released. So with these games being far more ambitious is the reason why I do not expect the game for at least 8 years for one of them to release. Some bumbs, scrapes, and bruises, and people making assumptions of their own do not scare me at all. Anybody who didn't expect any bumbs, bruises, and scrapes along the way and funded these games did so in great ignorance.
Besides, even with Alpha 2.6 I already had a great amount of fun out of it.
Don't regret spending the money 1 bit, and currently have no worries at all. Ask me again in 3+ years how I feel.
Post by: helimoth on September 06, 2017, 12:49:32 AM
First of all I only have $60 into this, and won't be spending anymore I never spend more than $60 for any crowdfunded game.
Don't regret spending the money 1 bit, and currently have no worries at all. Ask me again in 3+ years how I feel.
This honestly is not a poor position to hold and I think if more of the shitizens had just simply donated their $60 and withheld anything further until croberts released something resembling anything close to the product he pitched then this project would not be the shitpit it resembles today. Unfortunately though what has happened is people showed their hand too early that they were willing to pay big $$ without receiving a product (whether due to naivety about croberts' background/sheer desire to see the project succeed, whatever it was) and croberts seized upon that and tried to leverage it hard by promising more to get more $$ in the coffers and thinking the scope would magically manage itself.
Your "spend $60 and wait and see" isn't really the position we are attacking on this forum (at least in my opinion). What I personally have an issue with is the lack of transparency of a project that was meant to have crystal-clear development when I've taken shits that had less opacity than CIG and the cult-like retaliation when anyone tries to hold croberts/CIG accountable for their promises.
Post by: Spunky Munkee on September 06, 2017, 02:20:23 AM
Post by: Motto on September 06, 2017, 03:58:20 AM
All the (potential) newcomers get a fair warning from me now. If they don't do anything with it, that's there call. But I just can't keep the WKCF's run around and pulling more people in this scam. In every positive comment, I'm there pointing out the truth. And so far, not even a warning by a mod for trolling, despite some desperate tries from the WKCF's. So the message is getting through. Slowly but steadily.
I'm just hoping and waiting for something major again from Derek on short term. Anything to get morale even lower.
Post by: dsmart on September 06, 2017, 08:16:10 AM
Post by: Backer42 on September 06, 2017, 04:07:25 PM
Anyways, Kickstarter/crowdfund have been a great thing for PC gaming.You're now repeating the Chris Roberts spiel of "saving PC gaming". PC gaming is doing really fine without the need to be saved by Kickstarter.
Quote
Without the crowdfunded games, I fear we would be left with the massive amount of garbage that the AAA market (which is easily 95% of AAA gaming) has been shoveling out for more than a decade, where they put creativity and innovation into the trunk, or with the massive amount of indie games where 95% of them are garbage, and even then the good ones have a low production values.Sturgeon's Law applies everywhere. Especially to crowdfunding and early access projects, which have the same share of complete crap if and when finished at all. The difference is that in the classic funding model the consumer decides if he wants to spend money on a complete and finished game, while with crowdfunding they are playing lottery. It's simply not sensible in the current state and without strict regulation.
And don't get me wrong. "I just spent $60" doesn't change that. For once, only spending $60 on crowdfunding projects doesn't get them funded. The whales are needed to make the whole thing work. Second $60 can buy a lot of great completed games, so throwing that at some "maybe in five years" is an inferior choice. There is no video game drought, even if some people feel like that.
Quote
The Crowdfunding games give a way for developers to be more into the AA market, where they can make great games with creativity and innovation in the drivers seat and have a much higher production value than indie games.The AA market is doing extremely fine without crowdfunding. I bought dozens of great AA games in 2017 alone, not a single one being crowdfunded (some not even possible with crowdfunding). However single-player focused AA games don't sell much on PC, because there the buzz is all about multi-player on PC. That's a property of the platform's audience, not some flaw in the funding model.
Post by: Moeis on September 06, 2017, 07:33:21 PM
Anyways, Kickstarter/crowdfund have been a great thing for PC gaming.You're now repeating the Chris Roberts spiel of "saving PC gaming". PC gaming is doing really fine without the need to be saved by Kickstarter.QuoteWithout the crowdfunded games, I fear we would be left with the massive amount of garbage that the AAA market (which is easily 95% of AAA gaming) has been shoveling out for more than a decade, where they put creativity and innovation into the trunk, or with the massive amount of indie games where 95% of them are garbage, and even then the good ones have a low production values.Sturgeon's Law applies everywhere. Especially to crowdfunding and early access projects, which have the same share of complete crap if and when finished at all. The difference is that in the classic funding model the consumer decides if he wants to spend money on a complete and finished game, while with crowdfunding they are playing lottery. It's simply not sensible in the current state and without strict regulation.
And don't get me wrong. "I just spent $60" doesn't change that. For once, only spending $60 on crowdfunding projects doesn't get them funded. The whales are needed to make the whole thing work. Second $60 can buy a lot of great completed games, so throwing that at some "maybe in five years" is an inferior choice. There is no video game drought, even if some people feel like that.QuoteThe Crowdfunding games give a way for developers to be more into the AA market, where they can make great games with creativity and innovation in the drivers seat and have a much higher production value than indie games.The AA market is doing extremely fine without crowdfunding. I bought dozens of great AA games in 2017 alone, not a single one being crowdfunded (some not even possible with crowdfunding). However single-player focused AA games don't sell much on PC, because there the buzz is all about multi-player on PC. That's a property of the platform's audience, not some flaw in the funding model.
I completely disagree with you. That have been certain types of games that were nearly extinct prior to crowd funding. When these types of games became successful both through the crowdfunding and through sales after the game released it sent a message through the industry that there is a market for these types of games. Even the AA games were basically putting creativity and innovation in the backseat prior to the success of crowdfunding.
Crowdfunding literally gave a voice to the consumers in showing there is literally a market for certain types of games, and it is a market that can be profitable and successful.
Post by: dsmart on September 08, 2017, 09:54:41 AM
Quote
"Star Citizen
A bit of an oddity this one, Star Citizen stands out on its own as one of, it not the most demanding game in existence. We’re sort of inclined to let it slide as it’s still 87 years from release, but fans have been able to pay for play it for a good few years now. Originally created in the Crytek engine, Star Citizen moved to Amazon’s Lumberyard spin-off, while Vulkan support is also important. Star Citizen looks gorgeous, ambitious and humongous, but it’s also capable of crippling a GTX 1080 Ti at 1440p."
Post by: Scruffpuff on September 08, 2017, 02:36:58 PM
10 Most Demanding PC Games in the World 2017 (http://www.game-debate.com/news/23571/10-most-demanding-pc-games-in-the-world-2017)Quote"Star Citizen
A bit of an oddity this one, Star Citizen stands out on its own as one of, it not the most demanding game in existence. We’re sort of inclined to let it slide as it’s still 87 years from release, but fans have been able to pay for play it for a good few years now. Originally created in the Crytek engine, Star Citizen moved to Amazon’s Lumberyard spin-off, while Vulkan support is also important. Star Citizen looks gorgeous, ambitious and humongous, but it’s also capable of crippling a GTX 1080 Ti at 1440p."
I see magazines are following the time-honored tradition of conflating "demanding" with "ineptly coded and grievously unoptimized" when referring to performance.
Post by: dsmart on September 08, 2017, 03:23:01 PM
10 Most Demanding PC Games in the World 2017 (http://www.game-debate.com/news/23571/10-most-demanding-pc-games-in-the-world-2017)Quote"Star Citizen
A bit of an oddity this one, Star Citizen stands out on its own as one of, it not the most demanding game in existence. We’re sort of inclined to let it slide as it’s still 87 years from release, but fans have been able to pay for play it for a good few years now. Originally created in the Crytek engine, Star Citizen moved to Amazon’s Lumberyard spin-off, while Vulkan support is also important. Star Citizen looks gorgeous, ambitious and humongous, but it’s also capable of crippling a GTX 1080 Ti at 1440p."
I see magazines are following the time-honored tradition of conflating "demanding" with "ineptly coded and grievously unoptimized" when referring to performance.
Well yeah, the more things change, the more they stay the same. :smugjones:
Post by: Motto on September 10, 2017, 12:56:53 PM
And Derek, did you go there? :D
Post by: nightfire on September 10, 2017, 01:11:44 PM
PC Invasion: Ex-CIG Star Citizen employee tells Derek Smart where to go (https://www.pcinvasion.com/ex-star-citizen-employee-derek-smart)
I love his attempt at presenting himself as an innocent cute little sheep:
Quote
why did you spend time out of your life trying to dox a 24 year old programmer who was one of the most junior members of a team
To me, this sounds like:
„I was young, I had no other choice, and I needed the money! Besides, I was so wet behind the ears, I didn't accomplish anything substantial during my time at CIG anyway. I was too innocent and clueless to be invited to any corporate wrongdoing, so you’re wasting your time singling me out. Nothing to see here, please move on… pleeeease!"
Post by: Motto on September 10, 2017, 01:22:23 PM
Although I am fluent in German too (yes Sandi, I am, really) I just leave the quick translation to Google. Maybe I'll take out real errors, but it's the basic that matters anyway:
An official release date for the full version of the online game "Star Citizen" is far from in sight. And yet, the game universe has nearly two million virtual inhabitants. They all have spent real money on spaceships in the game they can not fly yet. Thanks to these spaceship bonds, however, the game can be completed - at any time.
The development of the most expensive space simulation of all time is fully paid by their fans and users. More than 150 million US dollars (125 million euros), "Star Citizen" inventor Chris Roberts was able to collect a record by Crowdfunding. But how did Roberts succeed in fomenting a world-wide euphoria, which seemed to be eclipsed for years, for a game that was not yet played properly and kept waiting for its completion? And more than that: how could the developer turn the fans' interest into a million-dollar loan?
Three German economists are now looking into these questions: Jan-Philipp Ahrens, Dennis Steininger and Andrew Isaak will hold a research seminar at the University of Mannheim in the upcoming winter semester, entitled '' Star Citizen '': The Art of Going Beyond Crowdfunding in the Video Gaming Business ". Translated, this means: "On the art of going beyond crowdfunding in the video game industry".
"Star Citizen" as a piece of community building
What results the researchers will come to, of course, is still open. However, the Crowdfunding experts already have a few theses to explain the success of "Star Citizen". "We believe that there is a special and particularly good form of community care behind," says Ahrens. "We hope to be able to establish this statistically." Regardless of the game, the "Star Citizen" founder would have emerged as a visionary leader and made the video game an interesting piece for future founders and company managers. "Star Citizen is the most successful crowdfunding project ever," says the Crowdfunding researcher Isaak. "We are interested in the management and leadership performance that has led to this success."
From previous investigations it is known that an emotional response of the fans is important. "The name 'Star Citizen' suggests: Here you get the opportunity to participate in something bigger." Approximately 50 euros cost it to become a citizen of the virtual starnation. This is the starting price for a starter package, which gives you access to the five available game modules and a space ship. As early as 2012, inventor Roberts had announced his own campaign site from the platform kickstarter and the established gamesbranche. He began to make donations on his own behalf. "Star Citizen" should be a space epic produced independently of the big publishers - an open world with almost endless possibilities. Over five years, the funding objectives have been steadily increasing. Each one was reached. From the money the developer studio behind the game is to finance Cloud Imperium Games, new features or advanced game worlds.
Interesting data available on the net
But work on the game continues. A trial version has been available since 2013. Now the fans are looking forward to the release of the single-player campaign "Squadron 42", which was announced already for 2016, but then was postponed to this year. Roberts does not want to publish the game, as long as it is not "perfect". Interesting for scientists, "Star Citizen" also makes the fact that a lot of data about the project are available on its own website. "Since the beginning of the campaign, everything the company has done or announced has been documented here," says Ahrens: money amounts, user numbers, funding goals, press releases and milestones. "The homepage is a huge database that we can use as a researcher, which is unique."
And what does the developer think of the project? A spokesman for Cloud Imperium Games said on request that they could imagine a collaboration with the researchers. "It sounds like an interesting idea," the speaker said.
There will not be an examina tion on "Star Citizen" in the Mannheim seminar, instead the seminar participants will write academic dissertations. The goal is to publish the results. If no scientific journal were to be of interest to the topic, the research work would be published independently. Interest in the cultural heritage of computer games and in the phenomenon of "star citizen" reaches into "the middle of society", believes Ahrens.
Post by: dsmart on September 10, 2017, 01:38:58 PM
PC Invasion: Ex-CIG Star Citizen employee tells Derek Smart where to go (https://www.pcinvasion.com/ex-star-citizen-employee-derek-smart)
And Derek, did you go there? :D
He's a moron who just realized that he's been played. At 24, he's also patently clueless if he thinks that's how doxing works. Which makes sense considering that he was working at a company that's running an active scam.
He decides to get pissy because he got busted changing his Twitter handle, then Tweets his exit from there. Not shady though. At all.
Then he proceeds to get owned by Goons, while yelling at me though he blocked me. I guess he's just mad that I just moved on instead of engaging him further. Though I thought the "Fuck Off" was a nice touch, because you know, I've never been told that before.
He just made himself a statistic for when this shit-show finally collapses because people will still remember that guy who jumped the Star Citizen ship, made it into Derek Smart's feed, then told him to fuck off, having been busted.
Post by: dsmart on September 10, 2017, 01:41:13 PM
PC Invasion: Ex-CIG Star Citizen employee tells Derek Smart where to go (https://www.pcinvasion.com/ex-star-citizen-employee-derek-smart)
I love his attempt at presenting himself as an innocent cute little sheep:Quotewhy did you spend time out of your life trying to dox a 24 year old programmer who was one of the most junior members of a team
To me, this sounds like:
„I was young, I had no other choice, and I needed the money! Besides, I was so wet behind the ears, I didn't accomplish anything substantial during my time at CIG anyway. I was too innocent and clueless to be invited to any corporate wrongdoing, so you’re wasting your time singling me out. Nothing to see here, please move on… pleeeease!"
He's just looking for attention. If he had enough sense, he won't have even responded at all. But CIG hires a bunch of dumb fucks for cheap, so there's that.
Post by: dsmart on September 11, 2017, 07:23:16 AM
I like how he says the public schedule is the internal one. I guess 3.0 did come out in 2016.
I am also thrilled to see that he is still reading my articles because I was the first and only person to leak that the internal and public schedules were different (http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/5276/). He's a liar, a scam artist, and a fraud.
Post by: nightfire on September 11, 2017, 07:30:32 AM
Star Citizen Update "akin to early access launch" (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-08-29-star-citizen-would-be-the-worst-scam-in-the-world)
Quote
I would love to be Roman Abramovich hanging out in the south of France but I don't have that much cash.
Don’t worry CR, you’ll get there…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Abramovich#Controversies
Post by: Kastenbrust on September 11, 2017, 10:47:58 AM
Star Citizen Update "akin to early access launch" (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-08-29-star-citizen-would-be-the-worst-scam-in-the-world)
I like how he says the public schedule is the internal one. I guess 3.0 did come out in 2016.
Quote
3.1 will let you buy ships as well.
Yeah there's absolutely zero chance of that happening, because it would completely annihilate their primary revenue source: jpegs. Especially if Chris sticks to his word and allows you to "earn a Constellation in game with 2 weeks play".
Post by: dsmart on September 11, 2017, 03:19:46 PM
Best comment ever
Quote
I mean I feel where the guy is coming from but he’s just such a rampaging tool about the whole thing it’s pretty much impossible to have any sympathy. Most games you can’t invest hundreds or thousands of dollars into the product before it launches so if it gets delayed people will be let down but not invested. So comparing it to other AAA companies makes no sense. When people are invested they’re going to want a high level of involvement or inclusion with that investment. Taking customer’s money to fund your development means you forgo the right to really complain or be exasperated by their response when you keep delaying things.
Post by: nightfire on September 11, 2017, 03:35:57 PM
STAR CITIZEN’S CHRIS ROBERTS IS ‘FED UP’ WITH GIVING 3.0 RELEASE ESTIMATES (http://massivelyop.com/2017/09/11/star-citizens-chris-roberts-is-fed-up-with-giving-3-0-release-estimates/) - MassivelyOp
:lol:
Quote
Tell them how it is, Chris! That old farts, trying to make a visionary such as yourself conform to conventionalisms like dates and goals! Just because they handed you a few tens of millions, they think they are entitled to anything! Preposterous!
Release when you feel like it, or hell, dont release at all! Thst’ll teach them some godamn manners
Post by: Orgetorix on September 11, 2017, 07:38:40 PM
Quote from: Chris Roberts
Right now it's a very not-for-profit enterprise where we plough the money back in.
Star Citizen 3.0 update "akin to Early Access" launch
"It would be the worst scam in the world." (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-08-29-star-citizen-would-be-the-worst-scam-in-the-world)
:parpcorn:
Post by: dsmart on September 14, 2017, 06:31:44 AM
Star Citizen backer gets huge $45,000 refund (https://www.pcinvasion.com/star-citizen-backer-gets-45000-refund)
Post by: nightfire on September 14, 2017, 10:11:22 AM
A Star Citizen Player has Just Successfully Received a $45,000 Refund (http://www.game-debate.com/news/23720/a-star-citizen-player-has-just-successfully-received-a-45-000-refund)
Here we go on the exponential curve ride. When this news continues to spread, another bunch of whales who didn’t log in to SC for the past two years is going to wonder what’s up, rub their eyes in disbelief when they realize what’s been going on during their absence, and run for the exits. Rinse and repeat. $500 backers never stood a chance to make it beyond the SC refund sub, but $45k, that’s a different league.
Post by: dsmart on September 14, 2017, 11:08:35 AM
A Star Citizen Player has Just Successfully Received a $45,000 Refund (http://www.game-debate.com/news/23720/a-star-citizen-player-has-just-successfully-received-a-45-000-refund)
Star Citizen backer gets huge $45,000 refund (https://www.pcinvasion.com/star-citizen-backer-gets-45000-refund)
Tired of waiting, Star Citizen guild gets a $45,000 refund (https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/09/tired-of-waiting-star-citizen-guild-gets-a-45000-refund/)
Quote
Children that were born when Star Citizen was first announced are now approaching Kindergarten:vince:
Post by: Motto on September 14, 2017, 11:50:34 AM
Post by: dsmart on September 14, 2017, 12:24:57 PM
A Star Citizen Player has Just Successfully Received a $45,000 Refund (http://www.game-debate.com/news/23720/a-star-citizen-player-has-just-successfully-received-a-45-000-refund)
Star Citizen backer gets huge $45,000 refund (https://www.pcinvasion.com/star-citizen-backer-gets-45000-refund)
Tired of waiting, Star Citizen guild gets a $45,000 refund (https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/09/tired-of-waiting-star-citizen-guild-gets-a-45000-refund/)QuoteChildren that were born when Star Citizen was first announced are now approaching Kindergarten:vince:
Here comes PC Gamer
http://www.pcgamer.com/star-citizen-backers-obtain-a-45000-refund/
Post by: StanTheMan on September 14, 2017, 12:43:29 PM
What an idiotic thing to write.
Post by: Motto on September 14, 2017, 12:44:54 PM
Post by: StanTheMan on September 14, 2017, 12:46:40 PM
Quote
Here comes PC Gamer
http://www.pcgamer.com/star-citizen-backers-obtain-a-45000-refund/
Sorry! Page not found.
The article you requested has either been moved or removed from the site.
They have been gotten to !
Post by: Motto on September 14, 2017, 12:49:37 PM
Or maybe it was my summoning Joe Blobers to the discussion :smuggo:
Post by: nightfire on September 14, 2017, 01:00:24 PM
Honestly, I can't believe there would be whale backers who haven't looked into SC for quite some time now. If you're in it for 100 bucks, that's one, but if you're in for a couple of thousands, I'd assume you check in regularly.
I would surmise that frustration over limited gameplay, being fed up with lack of progress and the subsequent decision to „take a step back from following game development for a while“ could hit anyone, anytime, regardless of the amount sunk into the wreck. But that’s just my guess… it’ll be interesting to see if and how many more whales will emerge from the deep in the near future, and what their stories will be. However, I’m sure that after this $45k comet strike, future whale refunds will get much more backer and media attention than they used to in the past.
Post by: dsmart on September 14, 2017, 01:10:58 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJtciAFVoAAXija.jpg)
There is currently NO reason to believe CIG. To me, it's only fake if 1) we believe CIG 2) the guy comes clean
If it's fake, to think that a backer went to so much trouble to fake it, is completely unprecedented. And if they're making their own FUD now, that's a whole different ball game. Good thing they can't blame this one on Goons.
I am going to keep believing that it's real. The media would do well to inquire from the backer directly; and not rely on CIG who have a history of LYING to backers and the public.
Post by: N0mad on September 14, 2017, 01:16:08 PM
I do get the feeling that SC is now a bit of a joke in the gaming community.
Post by: nightfire on September 14, 2017, 01:19:05 PM
CIG issue a press statement saying the refund wasn't accurate.
Well, they had to do something quickly to stomp this out. I’m surprised they didn’t roll out the Ortwin cannon – but then again, it wasn’t weekend yet.
Post by: Motto on September 14, 2017, 02:05:26 PM
And if it was fabricated, well, how does that feel Chris? To be had by a bunch of lies?
Post by: Motto on September 14, 2017, 02:19:43 PM
Post by: N0mad on September 14, 2017, 02:28:11 PM
His account has been deleted now - I guess that's that then. Still, even if it was fake, then I bet CIG are now scared shitless about further bad publicity.
Post by: Motto on September 14, 2017, 02:35:54 PM
Best part, the whole article remains, also on PC Gamer. There's just an added top note stating the comments from CIG, but the whole story and following discussion is still there. CIG won't like that.
Post by: dsmart on September 14, 2017, 02:40:22 PM
Of course CIG, in their infinite wisdom, decided to not only CONFIRM that a refund WAS real, but only cast doubt on the refund amount.
And it's stuff like this that some of the high profile backers don't publicize their refunds.
Plus he had specifically said that he refunded both the org $45K + his own $330 account. So CIG is obfuscating the issue as usual.
(https://i.imgur.com/eK1r60m.png)
Post by: dsmart on September 14, 2017, 06:52:06 PM
Quote
They didn't accuse him of lying. They said the individual got a refund for $330 and not $45k. They did not say the corporate card account was not refunded $45k.
Imagine if you were a corporate card holder and bought your company a whole bunch of defective binders from an office supply company. You return them for a refund of $1000.
While you are at the store refunding them, you also get a refund for a stapler that doesn't work that you purchased personally, on your personal card for $12.
Then you tweet - hey I just got a refund for $1000 on my corporate card and the manager sees the tweet and checks his records. He then tweets out that the individual that tweeted only got a refund for $12, not $1000 alleged previously.
Doesn't make the original tweet less true.
Secondly, only original transaction records would be definitive proof and only one person has those. Other people can vouch, but who wants the death threats (from anonymous internetters) and threatened legal action (from CIG for tortious interference)that would result from doing so.
Not many people.
Post by: Kastenbrust on September 14, 2017, 07:06:15 PM
Star Citizen FAQ | Alpha 3.0, Dates & Should You Buy?
Can it get any more blatant? He's essentially an arm of CIG's marketing department at this point. "Quick say some dates!!"... "buy buy buy"
Post by: Moeis on September 14, 2017, 07:35:56 PM
Yeah, from this point forward, not going to believe anyone who claims to be a big money amount backer even if they can show screenshots, cause obviously those can be faked, and it doesn't matter if they are a believer or not. I almost expect to see some believers creating this kind of fake stuff saying something about how something related to what ever new drama is going on inspired them to spend even more money. Basically what I am saying is what ever some extremist does on one side of the debate there is no doubt some other extremist who do the same that is on the other side of the debate.
Post by: Kastenbrust on September 14, 2017, 07:39:52 PM
lol, so that happened. fake $45k refund :doh:
It's believed that the refund was real, CIG have diverted attention by only confirming the $330 personal refund the guy asked for, and said it went smoothly without issue, but not said anything about the $45k at all. You can clearly see the 4 valid purchase codes, so we know CIG is hiding something for a fact.
Post by: Moeis on September 14, 2017, 07:53:36 PM
lol, so that happened. fake $45k refund :doh:
It's believed that the refund was real, CIG have diverted attention by only confirming the $330 personal refund the guy asked for, and said it went smoothly without issue, but not said anything about the $45k at all. You can clearly see the 4 valid purchase codes, so we know CIG is hiding something for a fact.
Other evidence points towards to the opposite, missing logos and grid lines in his pictures, deleting his account for examples.
The guy deleted his account soon afte CIG said something. The media were wanting to talk to the person themselves and gain first hand evidence.
If he really is telling the truth, giving the media first hand access would prove CIG was lying, and that would be huge news, and he could still do that all the while staying anonymous, instead he disappears.
We will just have to disagree with this.
Post by: Moeis on September 14, 2017, 08:24:47 PM
I already don't believe it, I am more interested if it is fake or out of context. If out of context learning more about the story would be interesting.
Post by: Kastenbrust on September 14, 2017, 08:28:10 PM
By the way, there is a screenshot that is going around in a chat that includes Derek, where one of the members stated they have a folder full of fake refunds.
The guy that made it admitted it was a joke on the forums already
Post by: Moeis on September 14, 2017, 08:29:31 PM
By the way, there is a screenshot that is going around in a chat that includes Derek, where one of the members stated they have a folder full of fake refunds.
The guy that made it admitted it was a joke on the forums already
ok, so not fake, taken out of context.
Was it these forums?
Post by: Kastenbrust on September 14, 2017, 08:35:19 PM
By the way, there is a screenshot that is going around in a chat that includes Derek, where one of the members stated they have a folder full of fake refunds.
The guy that made it admitted it was a joke on the forums already
ok, so not fake, taken out of context.
Was it these forums?
No it was the refunds subreddit
Post by: Moeis on September 14, 2017, 08:39:59 PM
By the way, there is a screenshot that is going around in a chat that includes Derek, where one of the members stated they have a folder full of fake refunds.
The guy that made it admitted it was a joke on the forums already
ok, so not fake, taken out of context.
Was it these forums?
No it was the refunds subreddit
ah, ok.
Post by: Spunky Munkee on September 14, 2017, 10:11:42 PM
Post by: StanTheMan on September 15, 2017, 06:31:09 AM
IIRC he had spend some $55k
I hope his family have filed a refund on behalf of his estate.
I know he was in an org and that orgs members posted his obituary on the SC forum.
Post by: N0mad on September 15, 2017, 06:59:02 AM
This just popped up on my Twitter stream. They manage to find someone to blame for the mess, and you don't need to look far to see who they have in mind, the first words in the article are "Derek Smart".
(https://i.imgur.com/iI07jnIs.png)
Post by: Backer42 on September 15, 2017, 07:10:13 AM
Quote
Chaos Mistress is the spokesperson and main author to The Chaos Rift Websites. Avid gamer and passionate about outdoors, adventures and living life.Is this a real name?
Post by: Motto on September 15, 2017, 07:14:21 AM
Post by: StanTheMan on September 15, 2017, 07:20:06 AM
QuoteChaos Mistress is the spokesperson and main author to The Chaos Rift Websites. Avid gamer and passionate about outdoors, adventures and living life.Is this a real name?
He isnt passionate about intelligence, being consistent, critical thinking or facts.
Post by: dsmart on September 15, 2017, 08:05:03 AM
I released this official statement on my Discord genpub channel moments ago.
Quote
Since last night we having been looking more closely at this. As a result, following our investigation, I have come to the conclusion that the $45K refund is FAKE, and was part of a carefully orchestrated effort by this person to create drama. We don't know why yet - nor do we care.
So I have banned him (Mogmentum) from the server.
As I did with that Deloria scammer prick (http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/4905/), I am currently writing an expose article because this was an irresponsible thing to do.
And while it's good for laughs, regardless of the fact that Goons had nothing to do with it, we simply cannot encourage this sort of thing.
CIG is screwing up all on their own, and we don't need crap like this to muddy the waters when in fact genuine backers are trying to get their money out of the project. The fact that CIG is actually issuing refunds, even though they can really legally say no (as per the ToS), is enough good faith to not cause these sort of distractions.
Post by: nightfire on September 15, 2017, 09:06:34 AM
Since last night we having been looking more closely at this. As a result, following our investigation, I have come to the conclusion that the $45K refund is FAKE, and was part of a carefully orchestrated effort by this person to create drama.The $330 refund by the same person isn't a fake though, since it was officially acknowledged by CIG… that’s still right, right?
Post by: Backer42 on September 15, 2017, 09:32:33 AM
The $330 refund by the same person isn't a fake though, since it was officially acknowledged by CIG… that’s still right, right?We will never know.
Post by: Motto on September 15, 2017, 10:25:29 AM
**ATTENTION**
I released this official statement on my Discord genpub channel moments ago.
If you are willing to be consistent, and give those guys something to be pissed about, you should tweet something like:
BREAKING: 45K Refund was faked. Full expose in my upcoming blog.
So, basically, handle it just like you would do with other CIG stuff. Man, they won't like that :laugh:
Post by: Backer42 on September 15, 2017, 10:44:54 AM
If you are willing to be consistent, and give those guys something to be pissed about, you should tweet something like:This would cause a cult short circuit cascade like:
BREAKING: 45K Refund was faked. Full expose in my upcoming blog.
So, basically, handle it just like you would do with other CIG stuff. Man, they won't like that :laugh:
"He faked the refund, so he can expose it afterwards and come to CIG's defense, because... yadda yadda" :allears:
Post by: Motto on September 15, 2017, 10:46:52 AM
'Com on Derek, what'syawaitin'for?
Post by: dsmart on September 15, 2017, 02:00:26 PM
Post by: Motto on September 15, 2017, 02:30:48 PM
BTW, somewhere in a comment (on PC Invasion I think) somebody had the perfect argument: happy customers do not want a refund. That basically says it all :five: :five: :five:
Post by: dsmart on September 15, 2017, 02:43:16 PM
Post by: Motto on September 15, 2017, 02:49:52 PM
Post by: ecg on September 15, 2017, 03:07:51 PM
And of course, our dear old friend Joe Blobers is there as well. Man, that guy is going to shoot his brains out when CIG collapses.
wouldn't surprise me if it turned out that blobers is on the CIG payroll in some "unofficial" capacity.
Post by: dsmart on September 15, 2017, 03:17:16 PM
And of course, our dear old friend Joe Blobers is there as well. Man, that guy is going to shoot his brains out when CIG collapses.
wouldn't surprise me if it turned out that blobers is on the CIG payroll in some "unofficial" capacity.
There is speculation that he's a paid shill. So, yeah.
Post by: Moeis on September 15, 2017, 04:54:54 PM
Star Citizen - The $45K Refund Debacle (http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/5807/)
lol, Kastenbrust exposed himself as a liar here, something I think I was the only one to notice, even before he got caught on this $45k fake refund.
Post by: dsmart on September 15, 2017, 05:26:59 PM
Star Citizen - The $45K Refund Debacle (http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/5807/)
lol, Kastenbrust exposed himself as a liar here, something I think I was the only one to notice, even before he got caught on this $45k fake refund.
Is that so? Please explain.
Post by: Moeis on September 15, 2017, 05:34:02 PM
Star Citizen - The $45K Refund Debacle (http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/5807/)
lol, Kastenbrust exposed himself as a liar here, something I think I was the only one to notice, even before he got caught on this $45k fake refund.
Is that so? Please explain.
It was this post
His ISP could just use dynamic IP's, most ISP's in Europe do making it basically impossible to IP ban people...
For shits n' giggles I ran a forensic text analysis against the pages of text on all three profiles; Moeis, Serendipity and ConfusedMonkeh... There's an 87% certainty rating that all 3 are the same person. Good enough for security services to convict terrorists. :cop: Further investigation reveals a similar historical time-of-day posting pattern. Interestingly the software thinks the user is male but with strong feminine traits and isn't very masculine (no joke) :laugh:
Pay particular attention to "Similar historical time of day posting pattern" and then look at the time of day posting pattern between myself and Serendipty.
Post by: dsmart on September 15, 2017, 05:53:38 PM
Star Citizen - The $45K Refund Debacle (http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/5807/)
lol, Kastenbrust exposed himself as a liar here, something I think I was the only one to notice, even before he got caught on this $45k fake refund.
Is that so? Please explain.
It was this post
His ISP could just use dynamic IP's, most ISP's in Europe do making it basically impossible to IP ban people...
For shits n' giggles I ran a forensic text analysis against the pages of text on all three profiles; Moeis, Serendipity and ConfusedMonkeh... There's an 87% certainty rating that all 3 are the same person. Good enough for security services to convict terrorists. :cop: Further investigation reveals a similar historical time-of-day posting pattern. Interestingly the software thinks the user is male but with strong feminine traits and isn't very masculine (no joke) :laugh:
Pay particular attention to "Similar historical time of day posting pattern" and then look at the time of day posting pattern between myself and Serendipty.
Right. But he was smart and talented enough to pull off an elaborate hoax that fooled a lot of people - including media. So that means he does in fact have some talent.
What's unclear is what the motivation was for using those talents to pull off a hoax of this magnitude.
e.g. hackers are some very talented people; getting caught doesn't make them any less talented.
Post by: Moeis on September 15, 2017, 06:00:50 PM
Star Citizen - The $45K Refund Debacle (http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/5807/)
lol, Kastenbrust exposed himself as a liar here, something I think I was the only one to notice, even before he got caught on this $45k fake refund.
Is that so? Please explain.
It was this post
His ISP could just use dynamic IP's, most ISP's in Europe do making it basically impossible to IP ban people...
For shits n' giggles I ran a forensic text analysis against the pages of text on all three profiles; Moeis, Serendipity and ConfusedMonkeh... There's an 87% certainty rating that all 3 are the same person. Good enough for security services to convict terrorists. :cop: Further investigation reveals a similar historical time-of-day posting pattern. Interestingly the software thinks the user is male but with strong feminine traits and isn't very masculine (no joke) :laugh:
Pay particular attention to "Similar historical time of day posting pattern" and then look at the time of day posting pattern between myself and Serendipty.
Right. But he was smart and talented enough to pull off an elaborate hoax that fooled a lot of people - including media. So that means he does in fact have some talent.
What's unclear is what the motivation was for using those talents to pull off a hoax of this magnitude.
e.g. hackers are some very talented people; getting caught doesn't make them any less talented.
Well, he also made boneheaded mistakes. I don't know if smart would be a good term to use, he has the skills to doctor up screenshots, though one of his screenshots was the first clue it was fake, and a video. he left way to many crumbs that only made his hoax last all of a day. Did it even last 24 hours?
Post by: dsmart on September 15, 2017, 06:04:00 PM
Well, he also made boneheaded mistakes. I don't know if smart would be a good term to use, he has the skills to doctor up screenshots, though one of his screenshots was the first clue it was fake, and a video. he left way to many crumbs that only made his hoax last all of a day. Did it even last 24 hours?
Of course it lasted more than 24hrs. Until I posted my article, nobody had ANY proof either way whether or not it was fake or not. They ONLY had a statement from CIG saying it was fabricated.
And if you actually looked at the shots and video, there were NO mistakes in them. None. So if you have any proof of this, and there's something that some of us missed, please post it.
Post by: Greggy_D on September 15, 2017, 06:07:07 PM
And of course, our dear old friend Joe Blobers is there as well. Man, that guy is going to shoot his brains out when CIG collapses.
wouldn't surprise me if it turned out that blobers is on the CIG payroll in some "unofficial" capacity.
He claims he only has $45 into SC. No fucking way based on his endless diatribes on every single SC article. No one would take White Knighting to an entirely different level over $45.
Either he has tens of thousands into the project or he is a paid CIG shill.
Post by: Moeis on September 15, 2017, 06:10:15 PM
Well, he also made boneheaded mistakes. I don't know if smart would be a good term to use, he has the skills to doctor up screenshots, though one of his screenshots was the first clue it was fake, and a video. he left way to many crumbs that only made his hoax last all of a day. Did it even last 24 hours?
Of course it lasted more than 24hrs. Until I posted my article, nobody had ANY proof either way whether or not it was fake or not. They ONLY had a statement from CIG saying it was fabricated.
And if you actually looked at the shots and video, there were NO mistakes in them. None. So if you have any proof of this, and there's something that some of us missed, please post it.
alright, I got to go searching through a forum I visited where someone posted a rededit link to a screenshot the bottom of the account page that showed how much he had spent vs what it actually looks like. The hoaxers screenshot was missing the background grid lines and also missing the logos, but still had other graphics on the page, and then when you look at his messages back and forth between CS, you see he has those grid lines in the background that should have also been present on his account page screenshot.
EDIT:
NVM, under further investigation I have determined I was wrong about the screenshot comparison. When you disable images through your web browser, his image is correct for what it should look like. So clearly he disabled the images so it would be easier for him to edit the amount since he would not have to worry about the background images of the grid lines, only the black canvas.
Post by: Orgetorix on September 15, 2017, 07:58:59 PM
Star Citizen - The $45K Refund Debacle (http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/5807/)
:perfect:
Your best blog so far.
Post by: Resin on September 15, 2017, 11:49:39 PM
Star Citizen - The $45K Refund Debacle (http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/5807/)
These blog links doesn't work with Tapatalk.
Post by: Orgetorix on September 16, 2017, 12:00:11 AM
Star Citizen - The $45K Refund Debacle (http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/5807/)
These blog links doesn't work with Tapatalk.
http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/5807/
Post by: Resin on September 16, 2017, 12:20:08 AM
Star Citizen - The $45K Refund Debacle (http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/5807/)
These blog links doesn't work with Tapatalk.
http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/5807/
Doesn't help.:( Works if I select "Web view", strange...
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170916/ebb754ec7fceb0964d95860887c9410f.jpg)
Post by: dsmart on September 16, 2017, 06:05:24 AM
Star Citizen - The $45K Refund Debacle (http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/5807/)
:perfect:
Your best blog so far.
Thanks. I put some effort into that one. Though, much to everyone's chagrin, it confirms the CIG statement, I felt that it was the right thing to do.
Post by: dsmart on September 16, 2017, 06:33:58 AM
The media are still somewhat pandering to CIG. They just can't write an article without somehow adding a positive slant. Charlie Hall used to (or also?) writes for PC Gamer, and they all do this. Only this time, instead of pointing to the ass-clowns parked on /r/starcitizen (http://reddit.com/r/starcitizen/) who attack other backers and try to silence dissenting opinions, he's calling out "haters" over on /r/starcitizen_refunds/ (http://reddit.com/r/starcitizen_refunds/)
Excerpt:
Quote
But for someone to go to the trouble to concoct such a story represents the kind of lengths Star Citizen’s haters will go to in order to discredit the team at CIG. That there is an entire community on Reddit dedicated to helping people pull as much money as they can out of the project as quickly as possible should come as no surprise. That it is filled with hateful imagery depicting members of the Star Citizen team is, frankly, disgusting. So, to, is Reddit’s abdication of any responsibility to police the communities that it hosts, but I digress.
So I fired off a Tweet storm:
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/908813311659175936
Quote
Charlie can u point me to ONE such "hateful imagery depicting members of the Star Citizen team" in that refund sub Reddit? ktnx
This is precisely how wars start. Instead of linking to the clowns over on the official sub-Reddit, you have to jab those in opposing group
That they REGULARLY attack & harrass other backers, especially those expressing dissent, goes against the CIG narrative, right?
If they weren't doing that in the game's official sub-Reddit, and with impunity, there would be NO need for a separate refund sub-Reddit
What's next? Blaming "haters" instead of CIG, for the impending collapse of the project, and a total loss of $160m in gamer money?
That they are actively engaged in scamming gamers, isn't news. But the one time they're in the clear, it's a CIG slanted headline
Thing is, we're gamers. We don't forget. And we hold onto shit forever - and a day. We will remember.
It's akin to us calling the guys on official Reddit, "haters", when in fact not all are. Most of those guys just WANT the game they PAID for
There is a fine line between being honest & being unbiased. I wrote an article saying @DavidSwofford was right. I didn't have to, but I did
While you guys were busy writing words about something you have NO evidence of, other than CIG statements, we were doing the WORK
His response:
https://twitter.com/Charlie_L_Hall/status/908816342232465409
Quote
Derek, you know how to reach me. I'm eager, as always, to hear from you.
After my Tweet storm at Charlie Hall, the $11K "leaver" posted on Twitter confirming his refund. Some of us Goons know who that guy is, and he comes on the server from time to time.
https://twitter.com/CrushBoss/status/908887907372376064
Quote
Some how you have replaced the key word in the subredit from "help" with "hate".
https://twitter.com/CrushBoss/status/908885837852450817
Quote
Charlie - I have, with the help of Derek and my financial advisor received a $11,000 refund, your comments in the article are not correct.
https://twitter.com/CrushBoss/status/908496746602311680
Quote
Hey CIG how's about a quick media release comment on my $11,000 refund? - I would welcome you to try and deny that.
UPDATE: over on SA (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3800238&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=2224#post476473842):
Quote
QuoteCombat Theory posted:I would like to say both, but as for keeping it honest, we will just say legit refund.
If he goes all out on Twitter just after CIGs attempt to debunk the last one... He either has some serious brass balls or he's legit. Or both.
(https://twitter.com/CrushBoss/status/908496746602311680)
I had lunch with David Swafford (hence the tweet) dressed in my best Goonrathi t-shirt attire (Dark side of the Goon) and listened to all the lies. After the [REDACTED] interviews were finished (I was doing the sound work) I asked about the network code.
A single developer was called into the board room where Lando, Swafford, and myself had been recording. We were asked to turn off all recording devices as the newly arrived developer tried to explain with smoke, mirrors and a white board about network tech they A) Did not have and B) had not coded.
After the session had concluded I promptly flew home to Australia and applied for a refund, which I received 2-3 weeks later.
C.I.G literally saw my refund as a direct Goon attack and held out for quite some time in giving me my refund. This transaction was also discussed with CliffordAKAMiku and CIG representatives; legally I don't know where they stand here as this was a private transaction. In the end, after guidance from Derek, it took 2 Letters written directly to Ortwin Freyermuth (C.I.G Legal) by my Financial and Legal advisers before they gave up the cash.
-End-
Post by: Motto on September 23, 2017, 02:48:30 PM
It took them about 2 months to get that face shit into the game. What have CIG been doing for the other 14 months then?
Edit: it's not intended to say negative things in the comments. Mine got deleted and I immediately got banned :wtchris:
And I only said that it was too bad that SC would never see the light of day.
I'm guessing they will remove that whole article as soon as CIG crashes :cop:
Update: never mind, Relay is a fansite :doh:
Post by: premiumnugz on September 24, 2017, 01:37:23 AM
So, Relay did an interview with Faceware here (https://relay.sc/article/an-interview-with-faceware)
It took them about 2 months to get that face shit into the game. What have CIG been doing for the other 14 months then?
I raised my eyebrow but nobody else seemed to notice when Chris himself said on stage during Gamescom "this technology has taken a lot of hard work from our developers to integrate". It was in that exact moment, like I'd had an enlightenment, that I realised what was wrong with this project and it's endless delays, and eventually lead me to this forum.
Post by: dsmart on September 24, 2017, 05:33:16 AM
So, Relay did an interview with Faceware here (https://relay.sc/article/an-interview-with-faceware)
It took them about 2 months to get that face shit into the game. What have CIG been doing for the other 14 months then?
Edit: it's not intended to say negative things in the comments. Mine got deleted and I immediately got banned :wtchris:
And I only said that it was too bad that SC would never see the light of day.
I'm guessing they will remove that whole article as soon as CIG crashes :cop:
Update: never mind, Relay is a fansite :doh:
The story of Relay. They are the ex-INN guys who, through me, found out that their boss was apparently getting money & gifts from CIG while stiffing them.
So barely weeks after I wrote this INN Conspiracy (http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/05/star-citizen-the-inn-conspiracy/) expose blog, they pulled off a mutiny (it was nasty) which had them and their boss slinging stones at each other on Reddit for weeks. Left by himself to run INN, I guess the money dried up - so it's dead now.
The scheming reprobates then went on to form Relay carrying out the propaganda business as usual.
That's why you got banned. They're de facto Shitizens; and one of them, an ass-clown named Trevor Noblitt (aka Dolvak), is a mod (he was booted before, but he's back a few weeks ago) on /r/starcitizen
Post by: Beexoffel on September 24, 2017, 07:18:31 AM
https://www.engadget.com/2014/10/01/star-citizen-earns-guinness-world-record-for-crowdfunding-effort/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Citizen#Funding_Milestones
Would they be able to verify the funding tracker?
Post by: dsmart on September 24, 2017, 08:04:15 AM
Guinness generally puts effort in verifying world records.
https://www.engadget.com/2014/10/01/star-citizen-earns-guinness-world-record-for-crowdfunding-effort/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Citizen#Funding_Milestones
Would they be able to verify the funding tracker?
Yes. But that would require CIG provide access to their books, as well as the data for the funding tracker. Neither of which they are going to do.
Remember that when Guinness included it on p17 of the 2015 edition (http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/2015/preview/files/assets/basic-html/index.html#17), they used the data off the website. So nobody knows how they actually verified it, if they did at all.
Post by: Beexoffel on September 24, 2017, 08:15:14 AM
Yes. But that would require CIG provide access to their books, as well as the data for the funding tracker. Neither of which they are going to do.Then I think Guinness should remove the entry from their records.
Maybe an actually delivered crowdfunded project could contest the entry and prove their funding with their own books, giving Guinness a more substantiated record to list.
Post by: dsmart on September 26, 2017, 10:56:32 AM
The War About Star Citizen - GameStar (https://youtu.be/D3VD9Y6cTvE) [German]
English Paraphrasing GoogleDoc (https://docs.google.com/document/d/12aocpKmapeGYP1fUNYga5W2dNCUVaDG76oObt5XVMY8)
Quote
C.S: The communities surrounding Star Citizen are kinda in a war. There are people who feel connected to the game and they support it with thousands of dollars. There are also people who try to actively sabotage the project. Today, we wanna take a look how it could get so far. – The situation surrounding the game almost feels like a holy war.
M.G: Yes, this is how I perceive it as well. On the one hand, you have the supporters of the game, the convinced supporters. They aren’t naive, they aren’t entangled. Everybody can check the progress the project has made in the last couple of years. CIG is to a great extent transparent about the process. So, Chris Roberts just doesn’t disappear for six months and then returns, there is a steady stream of updates. These updates also discuss what problems they currently have. – Supporters of the game believe in the project and its vision. This is faith. – Regardless of the progress, they have shown over the time, there is still no proof that it can be done for sure. They have done technological progress, some of it really impressive and something you should have respect for but they also say that there is still a lot of work left to do and who knows, maybe they will hit a problem which they cannot solve.
C.S: I understand this point of view. It is really enjoyable to see how a project comes along. How it makes progress. – I think the more problematic position is that there are people who try to actively sabotage the project. – Also, people shouldn’t care how other people spend their money, it’s none of their business. I wouldn’t spend thousands of dollars in this way, but hey, not my business. – Why do you think is there this big counterreaction? Is it the big numbers? It is a big target and it is becoming bigger.
M.G: Maybe, it is really this «holy war»-thing. If somebody is so invested into something, it may cause them to react in this way. There is definitely a group of people defending things about the project that are completely indefensible because this group has most of the time no proof for their statements, that’s why it is just «faith». This is where you can say it is just greenness. On the other hand are the people who can easily attack these positions because the other side can simply not proof it. – Star Citizen gets a lot of «esoteric» support. The support of the fans is real. I have experienced it myself at various fan events. – I think that most people get upset about people who say that they are just following Chris Roberts blindly, however, I think that the supporters can differentiate between what Chris Roberts says and what can be done, what is currently in-game and what is still a long time away. I have talked to people who have spent thousands of dollars and to people who just bought the starter package for 30$ and all of them say that they think it is a project worthwhile supporting.
C.S: We already have seen other crowdfunded projects selling goals for thousands of dollars on their campaign page. We have experienced the rise and slight descent of Kick Starter in the gaming sector. It is not unusual for projects to have extremely expensive packages, but no other game draw this much attention to their funding model. Why is Star Citizen so controversial in this regard? Is there another component challenging it?
M.G: I think it is mainly the size of the project because we have seen other large games drawing the same sort of attention e.g. World of Warcraft. WoW was played by many players and there were always people saying that it just has «stupid quests», «stupid story», «only about loot» and «you have to pay a monthly fee for that» resulting in «are you stupid?» but yet there are many people who say that WoW was the best MMO they ever played, the best time of their life and they don’t regret it. So Star Citizen isn’t the first polarizing gaming project, we have already seen some in the past. – Star Citizen has drawn a lot of attention just by having numbers like 160$ million in funding. They have done also a lot of things correctly e.g. marketing and addressing the right audience. – The current culture of dialogue on the internet is predestined and kinda known for this sort of controversy.
C.S: Do you think that Star Citizen is damaging crowdfunding or doesn’t it matter at all?
M.G: I think that Star Citizen is already in its own category, so currently it doesn’t really matter how successful or unsuccessful right now is. There are positive examples in crowdfunding. There are negative examples in crowdfunding. He states that it is more important how the games in the middle-range (a couple of millions of dollars of funding) perform. However, he is certain that if Star Citizen would completely crash that nobody would invest more money into it. - People are sceptical about the game because of its delays, there is from time to time drama surrounding it (stuff leaving, Chris married to Sandi and so on). He points out that they are open with their development process, but you never really know what is happening internally right now, so this causes some uncertainties.
C.S: but most of the time you haven’t paid beforehand for the project.
M.G: correct. This is the big difference. - This is how these polarizing groups arise. On the one hand, there are many people focusing only on the negative things about the project (refunds, they have heard something about Chris Roberts which they don’t like, somebody leaving the team and so on). On the other hand, there are many people focusing on the positive news (milestone hit, technical problem solved, new ship announced etc.). He also thinks that it is inevitable for a project of this size to only have positive news. This is what is causing this polarization.
C.S: and as you already said, there is almost no evidence for statements made by both parties. - Thanks for watching.
Post by: dsmart on September 29, 2017, 07:32:00 AM
Quote
"With backers continuing to plough cash into Star Citizen despite slow progress, Intel will have spotted a captive audience with a lot of expendable income so why not use it to help shift what will likely be expensive SSDs for the consumer market."
Post by: Motto on September 29, 2017, 09:25:18 AM
Besides that, SSD's aren't supposed to be used with high disc access. I'd guess that a game like Scam Shitizen reads/writes the HDD pretty heavily so using a SSD would be stupid to begin with. So, what's in it for Intel? Do they actually believe CIG has a potential of 1.8m backers that will buy that SSD?
Post by: dsmart on September 29, 2017, 11:14:05 AM
But I still don't get how this one works? When you buy that SSD, you get a copy of SC? Or can you buy that SSD with a discount thru CIG? Or when you buy that SSD and give your CIG accountnumber, you get a discount or does CIG get a couple of dimes?
Besides that, SSD's are supposed to be used with high disc access. I'd guess that a game like Scam Shitizen reads/writes the HDD pretty heavily so using a SSD would be stupid to begin with. So, what's in it for Intel? Do they actually believer CIG has a potential of 1.8m backers that will buy that SSD?
Nobody knows the details yet. It's probably going to be one of those coupon type things as they did with graphics cards awhile back.,
Post by: Motto on September 29, 2017, 12:06:06 PM
And that Subcriber Program (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/subscriptions) needs some updating too. I think a lot of those perks are long gone...
Post by: dsmart on October 02, 2017, 09:03:56 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/DrMWpYC.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/7hBEakr.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/cZRYJpQ.png)
Post by: Greggy_D on October 02, 2017, 09:34:09 AM
What is this magical mystery build that only seems to function in CIG Fantasyland?
Post by: dsmart on October 02, 2017, 10:20:47 AM
Makes you wonder exactly what he "played". Just like GamesCon 2016.
What is this magical mystery build that only seems to function in CIG Fantasyland?
Yeah, it's likely that it's all the same "staged" bullshit. They set it up, then hand over the controls. I don't believe that these writers would just blatantly lie like that.
Post by: Aya Reiko on October 02, 2017, 11:22:22 AM
Don't be too sure about that...Makes you wonder exactly what he "played". Just like GamesCon 2016.
What is this magical mystery build that only seems to function in CIG Fantasyland?
Yeah, it's likely that it's all the same "staged" bullshit. They set it up, then hand over the controls. I don't believe that these writers would just blatantly lie like that.
Post by: Greggy_D on October 02, 2017, 11:54:25 AM
Post by: dsmart on October 06, 2017, 12:23:11 PM
Quote
A CIG representative has since informed us that while they can't give us an exact date on 3.0's arrival, they "certainly hope it’s soon."
Post by: dsmart on October 08, 2017, 07:07:10 AM
Post by: dsmart on October 10, 2017, 05:01:35 AM
(http://cad-comic.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/ENG_20171006.png) (http://cad-comic.com/comic/try-as-you-might/)
Post by: Motto on October 23, 2017, 11:33:52 AM
Post by: Motto on October 23, 2017, 11:40:09 AM
Post by: dsmart on October 23, 2017, 11:48:00 AM
Now Derek, what have you done? (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/171005-Open-Letter-to-The-Escapist-Community)
heh yeah. Defy has been consolidating their businesses for quite some time now. They only just got around to The Escapist. Complimentary click-bait article (https://www.oneangrygamer.net/2017/10/escapist-lays-off-paid-staff-states-may-not-last-long/42497/).
Post by: dsmart on October 27, 2017, 05:07:28 AM
The Star Citizen fun starts on p18
https://issuu.com/newbayeurope/docs/mcv928_27th_october
This is the sort of thing that's going to put him behind bars over this project if he's not careful. Wow. He's not even hiding the lies anymore. Read this crap below.
(https://i.imgur.com/SttVrtD.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/oR0dnmZ.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/urGhmA9.png)
Post by: dsmart on October 27, 2017, 05:13:13 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/5YoOWE6.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/Fj0fAV5.jpg)
The Sabre Raven below is an exclusive in-game ship you get if you buy one of these. So yeah, it's just another marketing tie-in like they did in the past with Saitek, nVidia etc.
(https://i.imgur.com/NsyQ8A7.jpg)
Post by: Motto on October 27, 2017, 07:57:02 AM
Post by: dsmart on October 27, 2017, 08:21:39 AM
Oeh, I so much do not want or need to have that SSD.
Not even with a free ship?
Post by: Motto on October 27, 2017, 08:27:51 AM
Post by: dsmart on October 27, 2017, 08:30:49 AM
Quote
Optane costs a fortune per gigabyte. It doesn’t work well with laptops. It doesn’t work with desktops older than 2016. It doesn’t work on non-Intel systems. It’s not a magic bullet for performance. It’s superfluous on an SSD-only system. So what’s the purpose of an Optane cache drive?
There’s just one reason: to pressure you into upgrading your motherboard and processor to Intel’s latest. And in that regard, it fails miserably. There’s no reason to buy it unless you’re looking to get your feet wet with a cutting edge technology.
Right now, only commercial users should purchase Optane. The cache drive is a waste of time. However, it’s worth noting that Intel will bundle 16 GB sticks of Optane along with certain 200-series motherboards. So if you’re in the market for a new high-end motherboard, it might be worth a look. Everyone else interested in Optane, however, should wait until Micron releases QuantX. Not only will competition cause Intel’s ruinous per-gigabyte prices to fall, Micron’s product isn’t a first-generation design.
Post by: the_wolfmann on October 27, 2017, 09:31:00 AM
10 Reasons Why Intel’s Bleeding-Edge Optane Drive Is a Rip-Off (http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/reason...-drive-rip-off/)
Strange... the article is gone?
Edit: Looks like the URL was truncated in the middle: http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/reasons-why-intel-optane-drive-rip-off/ (http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/reasons-why-intel-optane-drive-rip-off/)
Post by: Aya Reiko on October 27, 2017, 11:10:51 AM
So basically, it's a useless piece of trash that no one should invest in. Just like SC!10 Reasons Why Intel’s Bleeding-Edge Optane Drive Is a Rip-Off (http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/reason...-drive-rip-off/)
Strange... the article is gone?
Edit: Looks like the URL was truncated in the middle: http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/reasons-why-intel-optane-drive-rip-off/ (http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/reasons-why-intel-optane-drive-rip-off/)
Post by: N0mad on October 28, 2017, 02:51:08 AM
Post by: dsmart on October 28, 2017, 03:23:07 AM
PC Invasion have an article on CitizenCon (https://www.pcinvasion.com/star-citizen-citizencon-2017-report). Good article, balanced and critical, well done that guy - he's going to get a lot of shit from the backers in the comments.
Yeah Paul knows he's going to get ripped anyway. He doesn't care. Any media writing about this train-wreck, expects that.
Post by: Motto on October 28, 2017, 03:27:09 AM
Oh, I can't comment on PC Gamer. Seems my Discord account has been banned. Probably because I said negative things about Scam Shitizen. What a bunch of idiots there :doh:
Post by: dsmart on October 28, 2017, 03:42:53 AM
https://www.anandtech.com/show/11953/the-intel-optane-ssd-900p-review
http://www.techradar.com/news/meet-intels-insanely-fast-optane-ssd-900p-drives
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-optane-ssd-900p-3d-xpoint,5292.html
Post by: dsmart on October 29, 2017, 01:13:29 PM
Quote
Even though gaming isn't the ideal workload for the Optane SSD 900P to show off its performance, Intel is marketing the 900P to gaming enthusiasts. They're bundling a code for the game Star Citizen with the 900P, and including a new in-game spaceship variant as an exclusive item for Optane SSD customers. Intel has partnered with Star Citizen developer Roberts Space Industries (RSI) to hold a launch event for the 900P at CitizenCon 2017 today, which they are streaming live on Twitch and YouTube. Attendees will have the chance to playtest the Intel-exclusive Sabre Raven ship, but it is still undergoing final QA and will not be immediately available to Optane SSD 900P customers. The web page for redeeming the Star Citizen game code had not gone live as of the time of writing, so I was unable to attempt any testing with the game. (ed: I remember when AMD was offering a Star Citizen bundle in 2014 as well. The game still hasn't shipped.)
At the media briefing for the 900P, an RSI representative said they are exploring ways to optimize the Star Citizen experience on Optane SSDs, but not many specifics were provided. One approach under consideration is using less compression for some game assets, freeing up CPU time but relying on high storage performance. It didn't sound like this work was close to release. In the game's current state, RSI claims they've seen load times improve by 20-25%, but they didn't specify what other storage device they were comparing against.
Post by: Backer42 on October 29, 2017, 02:54:31 PM
Quote
Even though gaming isn't the ideal workload for the Optane SSD 900P to show off its performance, Intel is marketing the 900P to gaming enthusiasts."Gaming enthusiasts" are usually stupid underage people with a big parent's wallet to spent money from.
Therefore the ideal demography to sell useless products to helping funding costly fabs for a new memory technology.
Gaming isn't even a SSD workload as long as current generation game consoles come with slow-ass mobile hard drives by default.
Post by: dsmart on October 30, 2017, 01:21:07 PM
Post by: dsmart on October 31, 2017, 07:23:18 AM
Post by: nightfire on October 31, 2017, 08:59:43 AM
Star Citizen Continues to Look Incredible and Impossible (https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/43n3k3/star-citizen-cities-planets-citizencon)
Quote
The space sim Star Citizen isn't a finished game so much as it is a collection of promises and dreams held together by impressive tech demos and gameplay videos.
This has to be the best description of the "game" in one sentence that I've heard in a while.
Post by: dsmart on October 31, 2017, 01:28:31 PM
Star Citizen Continues to Look Incredible and Impossible (https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/43n3k3/star-citizen-cities-planets-citizencon)QuoteThe space sim Star Citizen isn't a finished game so much as it is a collection of promises and dreams held together by impressive tech demos and gameplay videos.
Yeah, agreed.
This has to be the best description of the "game" in one sentence that I've heard in a while.
Post by: StanTheMan on October 31, 2017, 07:07:32 PM
Star Citizen Continues to Look Incredible and Impossible (https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/43n3k3/star-citizen-cities-planets-citizencon)QuoteThe space sim Star Citizen isn't a finished game so much as it is a collection of promises and dreams held together by impressive tech demos and gameplay videos.
Yeah, agreed.
This has to be the best description of the "game" in one sentence that I've heard in a while.
But then he says
"To its credit, Star Citizen updates keep coming. As of right now, players can enjoy early (but empty) versions of the open world universe, a hanger for their ships, and rudimentary first person shooter arena modes. It's a far cry from the game that's promised, but it's hardly vaporeware."
Post by: Motto on November 01, 2017, 12:34:43 AM
Post by: N0mad on November 01, 2017, 01:49:02 AM
This is a fun read (http://www.pointandclickbait.com/2017/10/how-much-for-cigarettes/) :D
Almost as though Star Citizen has become a bit of a joke in the industry.
Post by: dsmart on November 01, 2017, 07:48:58 AM
Post by: Motto on November 03, 2017, 03:59:52 AM
Another journalist that didn't dare to state the obvious that Star Citizen will never see the light of day.
Post by: dsmart on November 16, 2017, 08:29:06 AM
Sean Tracy, popping in with an Intel drone for some good old-fashion tag-team turbo-schlepping on a Newegg Infomercial livestream...
Listen in amazement as Sean answers the “What is Star Citizen?” question:
Quote
”So! Star Citizen’s huge — it’s an independent game being developed purely through crowdfunding...”
(And massive loans secured via rights to core IP with a bank repeatedly censured and fined for facilitating money-laundering operations by unsavory parties...)
Quote
“Um — so there’s no publishers involved...”
(And therefore no oversight, no accountability for financial waste or project mismanagement, no need to adhere to delivery schedules, and absolutely no external constraints on the reckless impulses of our deluded leadership team...)
Quote
”This is all through the brainchild of Chris Roberts who was one of the creators, uh — one of the creators THE Creator of Wing Commander, one of the most popular space sims that’s ever been, really...”
(And by that I mean it was not actually a Space Sim at all, just a dorky, cornball dogfighting game from over a quarter of a century ago...)
Quote
”Um — so Star Citizen itself is an epic first-person experience and you exist within a Universe that has hundreds of systems* with just as many planets**. And these planets can have cities on them***, they can have wildlife on them****, they can just be barren rocks, you can build outposts*****! You can explore! You can battle other NPCs!****** You can battle other players. You can be in a multiplayer ship. You can be in a single player ship. So basically it’s a sandbox universe. We give you the tools and it’s up to the players to basically play how they want.*******
* Technically, it has a fraction of one system playable today, with aims for a bigger fraction of one if/when its next nearly one year late (pre)Alpha patch comes out.
** Actually, it has one planet presently and hopes to add its first few moons in its aforementioned ultra-late (pre)Alpha patch maybe sometime next year.
*** Those planets don’t currently exist in game.
**** The non-existent planets do not have wildlife and the game doesn’t even yet have functional A.I. after 5 years. You can get some little fish in a tank, though. Happy hunting!
***** You cannot build outposts on a non-existent planet in a game that hasn’t yet given players outpost-building mechanics or places to use them.
****** Barely.
******* If by “sandbox universe” you mean one with no planets, moons, wildlife, or outposts in a space sim with half-baked flight models, unkillable bugs, unstable servers and choke-prone networking, and a smattering of NPCs with non-functional A.I., then sure... Why not?
I know most everyone is numb to it at this point but I will never not be amazed when hearing Chris, Sean, Lando or anyone else go on camera and willfully, brazenly, shamelessly lie about what Star Citizen is. An enumeration of wildly exaggerated aspirations for far away hopeful features is exactly that and exactly no more than that. Just because Chris Roberts is pathologically inclined to WishThink doesn’t mean it’s okay to go on camera and willfully conflate your most ambitious future hopes and feature promises with the embryonic and troubled present reality you can deliver to players today.
“I mean this is some shameful shit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yqi_foGA4eE&t=8m30s).”
Post by: StanTheMan on November 19, 2017, 05:26:29 PM
Quote
******* If by “sandbox universe” you mean one with no planets, moons, wildlife, or outposts in a space sim with half-baked flight models, unkillable bugs, unstable servers and choke-prone networking, and a smattering of NPCs with non-functional A.I., then sure... Why not?
...and no sand in the sandbox. Well maybe a few grains...
Picture of nerds in a sandbox trying to play spaceships with 3 grains of sand ...throwing wads of cash at .. cRoberts ..
Post by: Motto on November 25, 2017, 07:40:42 AM
Unfortunately, in time-honored Star Citizen tradition, 3.0 is buggy as hell. You'll get random slowdown, textures that fail to stream in, crashes, buggy interactions, random freak occurrences that end in your death, and other frustrating things. Sometimes the game will just refuse to load, and there's been a fair amount of server connection errors. In essence, though, this release to the PTU is kind of like the alpha version of 3.0 alpha.
Post by: dsmart on November 25, 2017, 01:40:12 PM
Post by: dsmart on November 28, 2017, 04:45:20 PM
Post by: dsmart on November 29, 2017, 09:19:54 AM
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-11-29-star-citizen-is-selling-virtual-plots-of-land-for-up-to-96
Post by: Flashwit on November 29, 2017, 10:06:27 AM
Post by: N0mad on November 29, 2017, 01:35:07 PM
Post by: Motto on November 29, 2017, 03:04:34 PM
Post by: Motto on November 29, 2017, 04:40:43 PM
Post by: dsmart on November 29, 2017, 05:07:15 PM
https://www.polygon.com/2017/11/29/16714976/star-citizen-selling-plots-of-virtual-land
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/star-citizen-will-let-you-buy-land-for-up-to-100-p/1100-6455250/
http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/11/29/star-citizen-now-lets-you-buy-digital-plots-of-land-with-real-money
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2017/11/29/you-can-now-buy-land-that-doesnt-exist-yet-in-star-citizen.aspx
http://www.develop-online.net/news/star-citizen-developers-selling-parcels-of-virtual-land-for-50/0237910
https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/310652/Star_Citizen_offers_50100_ingame_land_claims_to_boost_development_funds.php
http://www.rollingstone.com/glixel/news/star-citizen-buy-virtual-land-in-an-unreleased-game-w512815
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2017-11-29-star-citizen-now-offering-to-sell-in-game-land
http://www.mcvuk.com/articles/development/star-citizen-is-selling-land-for-up-to-100
http://twinfinite.net/2017/11/you-can-buy-some-fake-land-for-real-money-in-star-citizen-right-now/
Post by: Motto on November 29, 2017, 05:39:07 PM
Post by: Greggy_D on November 29, 2017, 06:12:30 PM
Post by: dsmart on November 30, 2017, 03:51:34 AM
Nothing from our German friends? You know, the ones who played a brilliant 3.0 long before us mere mortals got this PTU release...
Funny you should mention those guys; they've been particularly silent. Shills, man. :laugh:
Post by: dsmart on November 30, 2017, 04:19:10 AM
Quote
To rational people outside the world of Star Citizen, a line has been drawn already when you could buy virtual ships for $750 before they are implemented in the game. This is just another absurd level of microtransactions that make Star Wars Battlefront II look like baby time frolics.:laugh:
Post by: Spunky Munkee on November 30, 2017, 04:30:38 AM
Re: Star Citizen Media Articles
« Reply #346 on: Today at 03:51:34 AM »
Quote
Quote from: Motto on November 29, 2017, 05:39:07 PM
Nothing from our German friends? You know, the ones who played a brilliant 3.0 long before us mere mortals got this PTU release...
Funny you should mention those guys; they've been particularly silent. Shills, man. :laugh:
Which article was that exactly? I would think they now deserve some dirt rubbed in their faces continually as to destroy any credibility in this matter or any other. Too many of these media outlets are in Chris Roberts pocket. There can be no other reason to fabricate the "truth" like they did/do. We knew they were lying but I wonder how many spent based on the false hopes and expectations created by stories like this?
Post by: Backer42 on November 30, 2017, 08:53:24 AM
Which article was that exactly? I would think they now deserve some dirt rubbed in their faces continually as to destroy any credibility in this matter or any other. Too many of these media outlets are in Chris Roberts pocket. There can be no other reason to fabricate the "truth" like they did/do. We knew they were lying but I wonder how many spent based on the false hopes and expectations created by stories like this?Reporting on video games was never more than industry marketing in disguise. Some people calling themselves "game journalists" doesn't change that.
The "German friends" are in the special situation of having ties with CryTek, one of the few moderately successful AAA studios from Germany.
Post by: Flashwit on November 30, 2017, 10:06:50 AM
Of course, the gaps are pretty much gaping holes at this point.
Post by: Spunky Munkee on November 30, 2017, 12:10:44 PM
Post by: ecg on November 30, 2017, 05:23:21 PM
Starts off "If you thought micro-transactions couldn't get any stranger..." Seems like the whole Battlefront 2 Controversy may have really started something.
Post by: Spunky Munkee on November 30, 2017, 07:29:53 PM
Hey that's the next tie in for Robbers. He can sell advertising space to REALTORS and allow them to place the REALTOR logo on the deeds.
Post by: dsmart on December 01, 2017, 02:35:42 PM
There was also someone from, I think, the states who was supposedly shown the 3.0 build and wrote an article where he was highly impressed with the space -> planet transition and so on with that nonsense. In his defense, I don't think he was shilling, I think he was just duped by the crobbers hype machine. It takes a certain amount of exposure to the SC reality sphere to see the gaps in the facade.
Of course, the gaps are pretty much gaping holes at this point.
That would be Livingston for PC Gamer. Search the media articles section for his name to find the thread.
Post by: nightfire on December 04, 2017, 05:45:02 AM
"And… wow! Does that game play like shit! That… it's brutal!" :laugh:
Post by: dsmart on December 04, 2017, 08:25:01 AM
Quote
Cynics may say that this land sale is a desperate cash grab from Cloud Imperium, who have been working on the crowd-funded game since 2011. That cynicism may be justified as Star Citizen has just reached US$172 million ($226.5 million) in funding.
Post by: Flashwit on December 04, 2017, 10:04:25 AM
And uh-oh
Quote
Cloud Imperium, makers of Star Citizen released an update last week that lets players buy land claim licenses. For US$50 ($65.85) you can buy a 4km x 4km plot of land in the United Empire of Earth or, if you're feeling particularly extravagant, you can buy an 8km x 8km plot of land for US$100 ($134.64).
They better watch out before the cultists come in to specify that you're not buying land, you're buying a CLAIM to land! Very different and therefore not at all bad or weird. The true believers are definitely out in force in those comments.
Post by: dsmart on December 06, 2017, 11:01:21 AM
Not a valid vimeo URL
Post by: Greggy_D on December 06, 2017, 11:41:48 AM
Post by: dithero on December 08, 2017, 06:44:03 AM
Quote
Re: Star Citizen Land Rush Nov 29, 2017, 18:47 HorrorScope
I got summ. Dad always said real estate is always a good investment and with the little land mass they have now, it's going to make bitcoins blush. Mark my words.
Quote
NicklePop
Excellent idea Chris.
I'm in baby!
Crowd funded > anything else
Sell me whatever .. make the best space game.
Post by: dsmart on December 08, 2017, 05:53:31 PM
http://www.pcgamer.com/worst-microtransactions/
Post by: dsmart on December 12, 2017, 07:45:28 AM
Space Madness
Star Citizen is beyond a joke. Yet for some reason, I can’t stop laughing...
https://www.pcpowerplay.com.au/feature/space-madness,479658
Post by: Greggy_D on December 12, 2017, 09:29:25 AM
Post by: dsmart on December 13, 2017, 10:26:50 AM
https://www.polygon.com/2017/12/13/16767590/star-citizen-refund
Post by: Greggy_D on December 13, 2017, 11:50:06 AM
Post by: Motto on December 13, 2017, 01:10:00 PM
Star Citizen Base (https://forums.starcitizenbase.com/topic/22172-cig-being-sued-by-crytek/) No idea, fansite?
Post by: lurker_404 on December 13, 2017, 02:31:12 PM
Post by: dsmart on December 13, 2017, 03:09:26 PM
https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/311645/Crytek_sues_Star_Citizen_devs_for_copyright_infringement_breach_of_contract.php
http://www.shacknews.com/article/102486/crytek-sues-star-citizen-developer-over-copyright-infringement
http://massivelyop.com/2017/12/13/crytek-sues-star-citizen-developer-cloud-imperium-alleging-copyright-infringement/
https://www.pcinvasion.com/crytek-are-suing-cig
http://www.pcgamer.com/star-citizen-crytek-lawsuit/
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/star-citizen-dev-being-sued-by-crytek-over-breach-/1100-6455634/
https://www.polygon.com/2017/12/13/16774244/crytek-star-citizen-cryengine-lawsuit
https://www.pcgamesn.com/star-citizen/star-citizen-crytek-lawsuit
https://www.oneangrygamer.net/2017/12/crytek-sues-star-citizen-devs-making-squadron-42-not-advertising-cryengine/46589/
https://www.neowin.net/news/crytek-sues-star-citizen-developer-cig-alleging-breach-of-contract
https://www.vg247.com/2017/12/14/crytek-is-suing-the-studios-behind-star-citizen-over-their-alleged-use-of-cryengine-3/
https://techraptor.net/content/crytek-suing-star-citizen-developer-copyright-infringement-breach-contract
http://www.dsogaming.com/news/crytek-sues-cloud-imperium-for-violating-their-cryengine-contract/
https://www.tweaktown.com/news/60154/crytek-suing-star-citizen-developer-breach-contract/index.html
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-42352606
https://www.pcpowerplay.com.au/news/crytek-sues-the-makers-of-star-citizen,479835
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-12-14-the-star-citizen-makers-are-being-sued-by-crytek
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2017/12/14/star-citizen-lawsuit/
https://www.polygon.com/2017/12/14/16776300/crytek-star-citizen-lawsuit-cig-rsi
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/12/crytek-sues-star-citizen-developers-over-game-engine/
http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/12/14/crytek-sues-star-citizen-dev-for-unlicensed-use-of-cryengine
Post by: Motto on December 13, 2017, 03:09:43 PM
Post by: dsmart on December 13, 2017, 04:38:02 PM
Joe is about to get killed because of all the work he still has to do, or shoot himself. But apparently he's still out there defending Chris. I'm awaiting the moment Joe doesn't show up in a comment thread when SC is mentioned.
Leave Joe Blobbers alone. He's an Internet treasure :smuggo:
Post by: dsmart on December 13, 2017, 05:01:28 PM
https://www.polygon.com/2017/12/13/16767590/star-citizen-refund
Post by: dsmart on December 14, 2017, 06:05:29 AM
Post by: dsmart on December 14, 2017, 06:25:02 AM
Post by: StanTheMan on December 14, 2017, 08:41:49 AM
Leonard French, a copyright attorney, is discussing the CryTek v CIG lawsuit in +2 hrs. The Usual Suspects are already in chat.
Thanks.. thats great..
Post by: dsmart on December 14, 2017, 10:22:17 AM
https://www.polygon.com/2017/12/13/16767590/star-citizen-refund
Post by: dsmart on December 14, 2017, 11:42:25 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/VyNdOtp.png)
Post by: dsmart on December 14, 2017, 11:42:48 AM
Post by: dsmart on December 15, 2017, 11:20:29 AM
Post by: dsmart on December 16, 2017, 03:54:11 AM
Guess who is winning
(https://imgur.com/0Nox3Ni.jpg)
Post by: dsmart on December 16, 2017, 06:44:09 AM
Quote
The usual, basically—although they’d better have an ace in the hole, because Crytek’s allegations look pretty foolproof at the moment.
Post by: dsmart on December 17, 2017, 03:38:52 PM
Post by: dsmart on December 20, 2017, 05:54:26 AM
CRYTEK V. STAR CITIZEN: A CLOSER LOOK (http://www.cgmagonline.com/2017/12/19/crytek-v-star-citizen-closer-look/)
Post by: StanTheMan on December 20, 2017, 08:58:24 AM
This is well worth the read
CRYTEK V. STAR CITIZEN: A CLOSER LOOK (http://www.cgmagonline.com/2017/12/19/crytek-v-star-citizen-closer-look/)
If I read it correctly, he seems to have missed out sales of JPEGs = sales of the game .. whether or not it has been released.
CRoberts refers to it as released when he talks about continuous development etc...
I dont think a Jury would have too much difficulty saying hes selling a product and consumers are being ripped off ergo Crytek are being ripped off if they get a percent of sales as part of the contract.
Post by: dsmart on December 20, 2017, 08:59:37 AM
If I read it correctly, he seems to have missed out sales of JPEGs = sales of the game .. whether or not it has been released.
CRoberts refers to it as released when he talks about continuous development etc...
I dont think a Jury would have too much difficulty saying hes selling a product and consumers are being ripped off ergo Crytek are being ripped off.
He missed a bunch of things. I highlighted an important one this Twitter thread
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/943471768844500992
Post by: Backer42 on December 20, 2017, 09:47:18 AM
My understanding is that CIG/RSI lost the right to use CryEngine, as they violated their GLA, so they have to delete all copies of it (including modifications and assets based on it).
Now they seem to try getting around that GLA by importing LumberYard (violating the exclusivity clause).
But - when I understand Copyright law (including case law) correctly - they are tainted. If a CIG/RSI employee touched and modified both engines, you can't prove anymore, that CIG's copy of CryTek's IP ("StarEngine") didn't enter into CIG's copy of LY.
Is is this interpretation correct?
Post by: Flashwit on December 20, 2017, 09:56:31 AM
Post by: N0mad on December 20, 2017, 10:43:17 AM
Post by: dsmart on December 20, 2017, 11:33:06 AM
Bear in mind that in a Limited Liability Company any financial liabilities lie with the company rather than the owners. The simplest solution to make the lawsuit go away is to declare bankruptcy before the lawyers end up forcing you to anyway. I suppose the tell-tale sign of this occurring would be if the Roberts brothers and Ortwin were to start trying to cash out and/or move IP ownership around to try and protect at least some of the assets. Just a theory :)
That doesn't always work. Especially with new laws and precedent. That's what "piercing the corporate veil" comes in and which is easy to do depending on what actions the execs took during the company's operations.
Post by: dsmart on December 20, 2017, 01:07:00 PM
Post by: Greggy_D on December 20, 2017, 01:56:19 PM
Post by: dsmart on December 20, 2017, 02:30:55 PM
CIG is now selling tanks for Star Citizen (https://www.pcinvasion.com/star-citizen-now-selling-tanks)
Nowhere in the Kickstarter or stretch goals were ground vehicles, let alone freaking tanks, ever mentioned.
Post by: the_wolfmann on December 20, 2017, 02:47:37 PM
Nowhere in the Kickstarter or stretch goals were ground vehicles, let alone freaking tanks, ever mentioned.
The eternal scope creep continues... :doh:
Post by: StanTheMan on December 20, 2017, 04:20:07 PM
CIG is now selling tanks for Star Citizen (https://www.pcinvasion.com/star-citizen-now-selling-tanks)
We all know he is a tanker.
(http://www.theshermantank.com/wp-content/uploads/SC167328.jpg)
Post by: Flashwit on December 21, 2017, 08:15:26 AM
Post by: helimoth on December 21, 2017, 08:36:08 AM
Post by: McDrake on December 21, 2017, 09:23:03 AM
Ok, maybe (?) Gold ammo :airquote:
Post by: Flashwit on December 22, 2017, 09:00:35 AM
Post by: DemonInvestor on December 22, 2017, 09:14:46 AM
I think you'll have to buy something to shoot at too since there's actually nothing to attack to defend on the ground yet. You can defend your theoretical land claim beacon.
Don't forget to buy your tank hangar next.
Post by: dsmart on December 27, 2017, 12:33:33 PM
Post by: Flashwit on December 28, 2017, 10:08:02 AM
Post by: jwh1701 on December 28, 2017, 11:25:04 AM
1. Hope the Crytek lawsuit will expose all finances from the start of the kickstarter.
2. What was the cost for the actors and how much did the sq42 cut-scene cost before we even had a working game.?
That project, which has been sold separately since February 2016, features the acting talents of Gillian Anderson, Mark Hamill and Gary Oldman among others.
The third is outside of the article but was doing a little research.
3. Cost of the LA Office Rented or Purchased, was LA a good choice to spend backers money?:
LA Walk aroundhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5Ig94L40lc&feature=youtu.be in the video the shows off a server rack with very little in it.
I would like to understand what actually takes place in 16,00 sq office, they say its for ship development pipeline, technical designers, high level engineering, community.
2015 Year Taxes $56,530 (+1.21%) Land $3,595,411 Improvements $1,043,827 Assessment $4,639,238
http://maps.assessor.lacounty.gov/GVH_2_2/Index.html?configBase=http://maps.assessor.lacounty.gov/Geocortex/Essentials/REST/sites/PAIS/viewers/PAIS_hv/virtualdirectory/Resources/Config/Default
http://www.realtytrac.com/property/ca/los-angeles/90064/12322-exposition-blvd/154542723
Post by: dsmart on December 28, 2017, 11:57:14 AM
Post by: dsmart on December 29, 2017, 11:56:20 AM
https://www.polygon.com/2017/12/29/16827542/star-citizen-3-0-bugs-crash
Post by: DemonInvestor on December 29, 2017, 02:31:09 PM
Post by: Bubba on December 29, 2017, 02:46:42 PM
Post by: N0mad on December 29, 2017, 02:55:16 PM
Chaptery two from Binky - Sunk Cost Galaxy - has gone online a few minutes ago.
I'm loving it so far, I hope the zealots are paying attention.
Post by: nightfire on December 30, 2017, 02:30:56 PM
But if you substitute "Star Citizen" each time "DayZ" is mentioned in the commentary, you actually get to hear an incredibly accurate analysis of our favorite non-game.
Post by: Bubba on December 30, 2017, 03:18:06 PM
Now, that DayZ bit: first off, as a mod, DayZ offered something playable and an experience found nowhere else. That's not true of SC, at least at the moment. People bought ArmA2 to play DayZ, and they did.
Second, the "shortcomings" have been mentioned before: ArmA (and OFP before it) has a huge map; without doubt more complex and populated than any "moon" SC has currently on offer. I personally like the pacing of longer times between highly lethal engagements. Sure, I also enjoy your face-shooter too, but they're very different things. It's like the violence of The Good the Bad and the Ugly vs. Black Hawk Down. Or hell, if you want a ton of death, take the Wild Bunch: in games where killing is the only meaningful action one person can do to another, the visceral impact of that action can vary depending on whether you spend 1 minute or 1 hour preparing for it.
Now, what about Dean Hall and BIS? My guess (and again, note my disclaimer above) is that he left when he figured out that there were a couple people ahead of him in line to get rich off of DayZ. But that doesn't mean that Marek and Ondrej == Chris and Erin. I mean, a modder for Bohemia Interactive went on an extended vacation to climb Mt. Everest, the proper way, from Nepal. I'll pause while you figure out how much that cost, and you can join me in imagining that BIS recognized what DayZ did for the company, gave DH a fat bonus, and tried to retain him. But at the end of the day, ArmA, the engine, and the development is run by other people, with other priorities, and as a middleware scripter, the only benefit he'd be getting by staying on would be that those issues in the past he used his scripting expertise to get around, now he'd maybe get someone who worked directly on the engine to fix, when the time was ripe.
So, yeah, BIS, in the business of doing military shooters and selling simulations to the military, now finds themselves with an unexpected hit on their hands, and the commitment to release it as a standalone, without a lead designer. They're not the kind of outfit that pays top koruna for some SH established game designer, nor could they compete in that market if they tried. But they've had a product that, while being disappointing in its current state (is it released now?), had a huge cultural impact, and has spawned a minor revolution in gaming.
That's completely different from the case of a washed-up FMV Cutscene director deciding he can produce and direct the BDSSE and taking over half a decade to deliver unplayable garbage.
Oh, and as an aside: I notice that the IMDB pages of the key players in this drama include every Star-Citizen-related Web Video produced. Do you think CIG is paying scale?
Post by: dsmart on December 30, 2017, 03:53:06 PM
Okay, fair disclosure: I've never met Chris Roberts, or (that I know of) anyone involved with SC. I've also never met Dean Hall, nor had any personal or business dealings with him.
Now, that DayZ bit: first off, as a mod, DayZ offered something playable and an experience found nowhere else. That's not true of SC, at least at the moment. People bought ArmA2 to play DayZ, and they did.
Second, the "shortcomings" have been mentioned before: ArmA (and OFP before it) has a huge map; without doubt more complex and populated than any "moon" SC has currently on offer. I personally like the pacing of longer times between highly lethal engagements. Sure, I also enjoy your face-shooter too, but they're very different things. It's like the violence of The Good the Bad and the Ugly vs. Black Hawk Down. Or hell, if you want a ton of death, take the Wild Bunch: in games where killing is the only meaningful action one person can do to another, the visceral impact of that action can vary depending on whether you spend 1 minute or 1 hour preparing for it.
Now, what about Dean Hall and BIS? My guess (and again, note my disclaimer above) is that he left when he figured out that there were a couple people ahead of him in line to get rich off of DayZ. But that doesn't mean that Marek and Ondrej == Chris and Erin. I mean, a modder for Bohemia Interactive went on an extended vacation to climb Mt. Everest, the proper way, from Nepal. I'll pause while you figure out how much that cost, and you can join me in imagining that BIS recognized what DayZ did for the company, gave DH a fat bonus, and tried to retain him. But at the end of the day, ArmA, the engine, and the development is run by other people, with other priorities, and as a middleware scripter, the only benefit he'd be getting by staying on would be that those issues in the past he used his scripting expertise to get around, now he'd maybe get someone who worked directly on the engine to fix, when the time was ripe.
So, yeah, BIS, in the business of doing military shooters and selling simulations to the military, now finds themselves with an unexpected hit on their hands, and the commitment to release it as a standalone, without a lead designer. They're not the kind of outfit that pays top koruna for some SH established game designer, nor could they compete in that market if they tried. But they've had a product that, while being disappointing in its current state (is it released now?), had a huge cultural impact, and has spawned a minor revolution in gaming.
That's completely different from the case of a washed-up FMV Cutscene director deciding he can produce and direct the BDSSE and taking over half a decade to deliver unplayable garbage.
Oh, and as an aside: I notice that the IMDB pages of the key players in this drama include every Star-Citizen-related Web Video produced. Do you think CIG is paying scale?
This is a good post. I read the whole thing. :five: :five: :five:
Post by: Backer42 on December 31, 2017, 03:54:36 AM
This is the danger of staying to long in EA.
Post by: DemonInvestor on December 31, 2017, 01:38:32 PM
DayZ is a perfect example of unfinished work getting very popular and then stale, before getting actually finished and polished. Gamers moved on, because they were done with the mod, before it was beta.
This is the danger of staying to long in EA.
DayZ is a good example for a lot of things going wrong. But in the end like was said, Dean Hall seemingly was in a different positon. In one of his Streams for Stationeers he basically said he was only hired for 2 years - though there's propably going on a bit more in the background.
What i found always fascinating with those survival games is how they tackle the player behaviour. It's always interesting what's needed to get player cooperating, when there is no outside motivation. Games can fall because of bad incentives for certain behaviour and i personally doubt that someone who's baffled by crate droping ships, would be able to design a system that would in the end work out well.
Post by: StanTheMan on January 01, 2018, 06:21:00 AM
DayZ is a good example for a lot of things going wrong. But in the end like was said, Dean Hall seemingly was in a different positon. In one of his Streams for Stationeers he basically said he was only hired for 2 years - though there's propably going on a bit more in the background.
What i found always fascinating with those survival games is how they tackle the player behaviour. It's always interesting what's needed to get player cooperating, when there is no outside motivation. Games can fall because of bad incentives for certain behaviour and i personally doubt that someone who's baffled by crate droping ships, would be able to design a system that would in the end work out well.
Indeed and obviously what players expect changes over time.
Star Citizen as advertised and imagined by many Backers (aided and abetted by CIG) is going to involve a level of cooperation that would far exceed anything required in previous games and require the stars to align as gameplay is largely all made up by the players and somehow sufficiently policed in a terribly badly designed game by an inexperienced studio.
it is far easier (and a lot of fun) to play the bad guy in an MMO (nevermind actual griefing) than it is to sepnd weeks and years "cooperating" in some organisation of non-equals.
All at 12 frames per second...
Post by: Backer42 on January 01, 2018, 07:28:04 AM
DayZ is a good example for a lot of things going wrong. But in the end like was said, Dean Hall seemingly was in a different positon. In one of his Streams for Stationeers he basically said he was only hired for 2 years - though there's propably going on a bit more in the background.Well the point of my post wasn't discussing of what went wrong with DayZ.
Let's look at the failed attempt on an Star Citizen MMO. Ever since Blizzard hit their goldmine with WoW almost everyone in the industry tried to repeat that success. Including Chris Roberts. These people didn't realize that it isn't 2004 anymore. A time predating social media, where people who got bored by their latest purchase had to drive to their local video game store to pick up their next game.
Nowadays gamers see something on YouTube or Twitch: "That looks fun, let's try it out" and with another visit to a digital storefront they are gone. It doesn't matter what exactly went wrong in your "ten year plan" for your space MMO: Most people wont stick for another decade to just your product. And that's the reason why you don't leave something for years in "Early Access": Because once it peaked in popularity, finishing and polishing it is just a waste of time.
Post by: dsmart on January 01, 2018, 03:04:54 PM
Post by: DemonInvestor on January 01, 2018, 03:11:04 PM
Well the point of my post wasn't discussing of what went wrong with DayZ.
Let's look at the failed attempt on an Star Citizen MMO. Ever since Blizzard hit their goldmine with WoW almost everyone in the industry tried to repeat that success. Including Chris Roberts. These people didn't realize that it isn't 2004 anymore. A time predating social media, where people who got bored by their latest purchase had to drive to their local video game store to pick up their next game.
Nowadays gamers see something on YouTube or Twitch: "That looks fun, let's try it out" and with another visit to a digital storefront they are gone. It doesn't matter what exactly went wrong in your "ten year plan" for your space MMO: Most people wont stick for another decade to just your product. And that's the reason why you don't leave something for years in "Early Access": Because once it peaked in popularity, finishing and polishing it is just a waste of time.
Well... i don't see early access as a special case in what you describe.
Early access has the same problem as every other game - stagnation. If a game stagnates it will die sooner. And as always keeping a game alive for years might need more and more effort until it's no longer worth said effort. Though 'EA' games have the problem of already being in 'expectation debt'.
If finishing a 'EA' game is worth it or not, depends upon how often one can sell something and not finish it, or how often you need to actually sell something to the masses.
Post by: Spunky Munkee on January 01, 2018, 04:57:26 PM
How much crap will Roberts be able to see once the game is completed? Everything they needed has been purchased already.
Post by: helimoth on January 02, 2018, 03:26:53 AM
How much crap will Roberts be able to see once the game is completed? Everything they needed has been purchased already.
See this is the thing though; ignoring the fact that SC will never be released (at least not to the extent that it will ever resemble a game rather than a tech demo), Shitizens believe they have bought their 'fleet' and all this is going to last them for a while when they play the game - WRONG. If the game did by some miracle manage to launch in to the SC people are expecting then you can bet your bottom dollar that the ships that have currently been bought (even the ones that cost thousands of dollars) will quickly be revealed to be low-tier cheap in game ships with much better ships now available to buy for thousands of dollars. Given the amount of money cig knows is sloshing around in the wallets of whales, nobody should expect this game to be anything other than a huge pay-to-win spendfest if it does release (it won't)
Post by: hurrdurr on January 02, 2018, 11:54:13 AM
Well the point of my post wasn't discussing of what went wrong with DayZ.
Let's look at the failed attempt on an Star Citizen MMO. Ever since Blizzard hit their goldmine with WoW almost everyone in the industry tried to repeat that success. Including Chris Roberts. These people didn't realize that it isn't 2004 anymore. A time predating social media, where people who got bored by their latest purchase had to drive to their local video game store to pick up their next game.
Nowadays gamers see something on YouTube or Twitch: "That looks fun, let's try it out" and with another visit to a digital storefront they are gone. It doesn't matter what exactly went wrong in your "ten year plan" for your space MMO: Most people wont stick for another decade to just your product. And that's the reason why you don't leave something for years in "Early Access": Because once it peaked in popularity, finishing and polishing it is just a waste of time.
You make an excellent point. There's definitely been a massive paradigm shift in the past decade with these (primarily indie) early access games being released for wide public consumption. Inside of that phenomenon, you have bizarre situations unfolding like you described, and I'll use Starbound as an example.
Having been born out of the popularity of Terraria (i.e. a sort of 2D Minecraft) Starbound brought a lot of neat, new ideas to the table (alongside many of other category contenders such as Crea, Darkout, Edge of Space, etc.) I put nearly a thousand hours into the game myself during its early access years, as did many others. Sadly, by the time the game went gold for initial release, the game's modding community and popularity had basically flatlined.
So, it wouldn't surprise me, that if CIG is even able to survive long enough to release a product that is far too little and far too late, the hype train will derail quicker than the right end of a classical bell curve, and nobody will even care enough to be surprised.
Post by: DemonInvestor on January 02, 2018, 12:35:55 PM
Starbound is a proto SC in my books.
Best thing was when they started arguing about the meaning of "final release" and how the current alpha status game would actually be enough for a final release., while denying cancelling pre-orders.
@helimoth
Well he might just go the itemization way of making those ship hulls less important than the actual parts to put into those. And seeing how it's an MMO (or not, who knows..., he doesn't seem to), said gear could be in nice little crates, playing nicely along with his stowage module, you've got to pay space-hackers for to break open.
Post by: Motto on January 02, 2018, 03:49:21 PM
Post by: Backer42 on January 02, 2018, 05:59:11 PM
You make an excellent point. There's definitely been a massive paradigm shift in the past decade with these (primarily indie) early access games being released for wide public consumption. Inside of that phenomenon, you have bizarre situations unfolding like you described, and I'll use Starbound as an example.And there is another issue with this model: Indie developers quickly jumped on the "community-driven development" train. Put some alpha into early access and then ask gamers what they want. Problem is: Gamers do not know what they actually want.
Having been born out of the popularity of Terraria (i.e. a sort of 2D Minecraft) Starbound brought a lot of neat, new ideas to the table (alongside many of other category contenders such as Crea, Darkout, Edge of Space, etc.) I put nearly a thousand hours into the game myself during its early access years, as did many others. Sadly, by the time the game went gold for initial release, the game's modding community and popularity had basically flatlined.
In fact using community feedback and all kinds of data mining might get you a very neatly streamlined package, which doesn't offend anyone. Just like easy listening elevator music. Which is also boring like hell. That is why outstanding memorable video games were never a result of community polls.
Quote
So, it wouldn't surprise me, that if CIG is even able to survive long enough to release a product that is far too little and far too late, the hype train will derail quicker than the right end of a classical bell curve, and nobody will even care enough to be surprised.I think Peak Star Citizen was already in 2015. Their supposed funding peak was in 2016. It's over already.
Post by: Flashwit on January 03, 2018, 09:46:23 AM
Eurogamer finally telling like it is. NOT! (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-01-02-star-citizen-alpha-3-0-lands-squadron-42-gameplay-revealed)
Quote from: Eurogamer
But alpha build 3.0 also brings a core feature set which makes Star Citizen more closely resemble an actual game than ever before.
Technically this is literally true, but I don't think it quite gets the point across :smuggo:
Post by: Motto on January 06, 2018, 05:28:53 AM
Post by: dsmart on January 06, 2018, 06:23:52 AM
Dinner with PC Invasion (https://www.pcinvasion.com/cig-holding-star-citizen-special-event-concierge-backers-charging)
If you backed more than $1000, you get to meet & greet Chris Roberts for another $350. God this is all so hilarious.
Post by: justme on January 06, 2018, 07:36:50 AM
Post by: jwh1701 on January 06, 2018, 07:39:09 AM
If you backed more than $1000, you get to meet & greet Chris Roberts for another $350. God this is all so hilarious.
Not sure if describing it right but this stunt to me it's like he's saying I'm a rock-star, high profile celebrity or warren buffet. I could see this if he had delivered the game with stretch goals that was truly fantastic and entertaining. Also it sort of feels sort of celebratory when if fact red flags and dark clouds abound all around the project. But considering the amounts of money he has been given if he had delivered as promised CIG should of had free party with his backers to celebrate. I have been watching reddit and indeed I've seen backers with over 1k in the game voicing displeasure.
Your latest twitter image with the older lady is very funny.
Post by: justme on January 06, 2018, 07:47:49 AM
this is a topic.
(http://i65.tinypic.com/29vmjpu.jpg)
some see that as investment, because with some drinks,
they talk a bit more clearly about future stuff and you always
see some hidden stuff. so maybe interesting for some streamers,
earning money with that.
Post by: helimoth on January 06, 2018, 04:47:13 PM
Post by: jwh1701 on January 06, 2018, 10:20:58 PM
Bored Gamer: Only one to make a video today on YouTube
Completely different take on it, says it will be diminished and and Cyrtek made false statements
Post by: jwh1701 on January 07, 2018, 10:33:44 AM
Things stated in video, there is no need to worry at all this is a BullS*, False Lawsuit, Money Grab, only wanting to embarrass CIG, crytek wanting shush money, crytek are consistent liars, etc.
Post by: jwh1701 on January 07, 2018, 10:42:34 AM
Posted by: helimoth
« on: January 06, 2018, 04:47:13 PM »
is there a particular reason why we collectively aren't fundraising to send derek to these events in diguise?
While one part of me would say this would be great and might be informative. But on second though I truthfully believe considering SC threat thread posted by Derek, I could not participate in fundraising as I honestly have doubts concerning his safety.
Post by: jwh1701 on January 07, 2018, 12:14:24 PM
Just a coincidence or paid advertising? Is the title misleading? Is this just a background image loaded by a fan and not a true CIG owned laptop?
The first Star Citizen computer in gravity zéro !
https://socialblade.com/youtube/channel/UCVsv0SttI868LrYtO-ba6RQ
Post by: jwh1701 on January 07, 2018, 08:31:47 PM
He is a lawyer and at the end says he would easily favor CIG in the lawsuit after reading the GLA.
Post by: Kyrt on January 07, 2018, 10:30:33 PM
Missed this one just finished it, watched his previous video on Crytek/CIG lawsuit.
He is a lawyer and at the end says he would easily favor CIG in the lawsuit after reading the GLA.
Yes.
However...assuming the case isn't thrown out because Skadden sued the wrong shell company, to my inexperienced eye..
the GLA specifically forbids four of the five charges
the fifth depends on how the judge interprets "exclusively". Going with CIGs interpretation would create a hefty loophole in many a contract as many engine providers do like exclusivity to avoid diluting their technology.
I need to find time to watch that to see why he feels CIG is better placed.
Post by: N0mad on January 08, 2018, 12:55:55 AM
1) A Star Citizen supporter
2) Working on Youtube rather than actively in law - that immediately makes me suspicious
The fact remains that CIG is STILL using CryEngine - except now they've slapped the Lumberyard logo on it and claim that the GLA is null and void. That isn't going to work in court and I'm not sure Leonard French mentions this.
Post by: Motto on January 08, 2018, 04:24:56 AM
Post by: Bubba on January 08, 2018, 05:29:12 AM
As he pointed out on the initial complaint, it's a short one, aiming for a settlement. In the response to the FAC, CIG/RSI not only declared war, they also conceded several points of fact. So now CryTek gets to build on their concessions.
We'll see. Or maybe we won't. Either way, I'm not losing sleep over it.
Post by: StanTheMan on January 08, 2018, 06:54:57 AM
Yes.
However...assuming the case isn't thrown out because Skadden sued the wrong shell company, to my inexperienced eye..
the GLA specifically forbids four of the five charges
the fifth depends on how the judge interprets "exclusively". Going with CIGs interpretation would create a hefty loophole in many a contract as many engine providers do like exclusivity to avoid diluting their technology.
I need to find time to watch that to see why he feels CIG is better placed.
and you still come back to the fact that lawyers are wrong all the time.
That is why many of them lose a case...the law is interpreted differently to what they (and/or their Clients) expected it to be.
In the UK both sides can hold out and go to trial but that is risky (costs, reputation etc) or they can settle.
A huge percent of cases are settled out of court because neither side has a sufficiently high enough probability (according to their respective analysis of the law) of winning. The system is set up to reward early settlement and to discourage going to trial. Which is a major reason why you take the personal vendetta, grievance, emotion etc out of a case quickly as those things tend to cloud judgement. Lawyers will fight and talk big but more often hedge their bets and keep their gobs shut which ime puts you in an uncomfortable position if you think you are right and/or your lawyer seems ot be playing a different game. They work much more on the probability of success rather than what is right and wrong, just or unjust...
I am sure it is similar in the USA.
It is unlikely that Skadden have gotten involved in this if they think the case has no merit so on that alone we probably have something to negotiate about thus presenting a cost, reputation etc risk for CIG.
I am sure French would concede that this can go to either way with what he has to go on, nevermind the fact he isn't party to all the evidence.
Post by: jwh1701 on January 08, 2018, 07:55:06 AM
Post by: jwh1701 on January 08, 2018, 08:05:41 AM
Yes.
However...assuming the case isn't thrown out because Skadden sued the wrong shell company, to my inexperienced eye..
the GLA specifically forbids four of the five charges
the fifth depends on how the judge interprets "exclusively". Going with CIGs interpretation would create a hefty loophole in many a contract as many engine providers do like exclusivity to avoid diluting their technology.
I need to find time to watch that to see why he feels CIG is better placed.
The one area that he really could not understand was near the end in the GLA it was I think it was 6.1.4 and it was the no damage clause. He stated repeatedly he had not seen this in a gla and why would it be put in with the money involved.
Post by: jwh1701 on January 08, 2018, 08:34:15 AM
He and Leonard seem to be interpreting the exclusive meaning they had a right to use the engine but were not forced to.
He states the GLA is a slam dunk for CIG.
Post by: N0mad on January 08, 2018, 08:39:10 AM
Post by: dsmart on January 08, 2018, 09:02:17 AM
I can't wait to see the look on these guys faces when this case carries on.
Wait for the judge's ruling on the MtD coming on Feb 9th. That's going to be the deciding factor.
Post by: jwh1701 on January 08, 2018, 09:54:44 AM
Wait for the judge's ruling on the MtD coming on Feb 9th. That's going to be the deciding factor.
That's not to far off, one thing I have yet to find is anyone pro CIG sad about the wasted 2million dollars. That is little more than 30 percent of the squandered of the original 6mill goal. I do not want to see CIG totally ruined if this goes forward. I just want all the financials exposed and if they misused the money then hopefully all available legal action is taken against them.
Post by: DemonInvestor on January 08, 2018, 01:46:47 PM
That line alone isn't a defence against intellectual property infringement, nor having to pay certain fees - as they define what a relase means straight at the beginning.
Again i'm wondering about the RSI and CIG connection now.
A big company like Skadden normally shouldn't erroneously name a company to defend itself. I mean to unwashed masses like us the divide between CIG/RSI might be not pereceptible, but for a company that's working with original contracts... . Than again, and i might think to much in 4d Chess - a statement of RSI and CIG not being one and one not being part of a certain contract could come in pretty handy in certain cases. Especially when the defending site doesn't know you might want to make that a point.
Post by: dsmart on January 08, 2018, 02:24:12 PM
https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2018/01/08/the-top-upcoming-video-games-of-2018-and-beyond/#4b719e21f999
(https://i.imgur.com/gxwQ9E3.png)
Post by: Kyrt on January 08, 2018, 02:25:55 PM
I'm also reading the exclusivity clause as not meaning CIG has nessecarily to use said CryEngine. That doesn't render the whole contract void though.
That line alone isn't a defence against intellectual property infringement, nor having to pay certain fees - as they define what a relase means straight at the beginning.
Again i'm wondering about the RSI and CIG connection now.
A big company like Skadden normally shouldn't erroneously name a company to defend itself. I mean to unwashed masses like us the divide between CIG/RSI might be not pereceptible, but for a company that's working with original contracts... . Than again, and i might think to much in 4d Chess - a statement of RSI and CIG not being one and one not being part of a certain contract could come in pretty handy in certain cases. Especially when the defending site doesn't know you might want to make that a point.
It's complicated because they appear to be 17 different yet related companies all working on the same project and involving the same people, but with each having a different responsibility and area of focus. Amongst other companies, they might be equivalent to departments or divisions butt his way, Chris gets to file separate tax returns and gains the ability to swap funds between them as well as insulating himself from any fallout that may accrue.
I could see CryTek suing the "wrong" company but at the same time, I don't see the point in trying to hide which company they should be suing unless CIG think CryTek won't refile.
Post by: dsmart on January 08, 2018, 02:28:19 PM
It's complicated because they appear to be 17 different yet related companies all working on the same project and involving the same people, but with each having a different responsibility and area of focus. Amongst other companies, they might be equivalent to departments or divisions butt his way, Chris gets to file separate tax returns and gains the ability to swap funds between them as well as insulating himself from any fallout that may accrue.
I could see CryTek suing the "wrong" company but at the same time, I don't see the point in trying to hide which company they should be suing unless CIG think CryTek won't refile.
The "wrong company" defense is bullshit, and a non-starter. If you read the GLA, it actually names any/all subsidiaries of CIG as being party to the GLA.
Post by: jwh1701 on January 08, 2018, 04:06:12 PM
Document 21 Filed 01/05/18 Page 1 of 4 Page ID #:234
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1mPjfXrjAf9RUq3_5cJgd-hF-I5XoCQta
The "wrong company" defense is bullshit, and a non-starter. If you read the GLA, it actually names any/all subsidiaries of CIG as being party to the GLA.
Post by: Backer42 on January 08, 2018, 04:58:52 PM
When reading through the document links that you posted I noticed 16 listed companies. Is this normal for a game to have this many registered companies or is this another red flag?That's a sure red flag. You only need that much shell firms for money laundering, tax evasion and other shady stuff.
Post by: StanTheMan on January 08, 2018, 05:53:10 PM
He states the GLA is a slam dunk for CIG.
this is reason enough to know he is an arrogant fool.
He isnt a lawyer much less an american lawyer.. he has less experience of law than he has hair on his head.
Post by: Kyrt on January 09, 2018, 01:47:50 AM
The "wrong company" defense is bullshit, and a non-starter. If you read the GLA, it actually names any/all subsidiaries of CIG as being party to the GLA.
I missed that. What section is it?
Post by: jwh1701 on January 09, 2018, 05:49:36 AM
I missed that. What section is it?
Document 21 Filed 01/05/18 Page 1 of 4 Page ID #:234
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1mPjfXrjAf9RUq3_5cJgd-hF-I5XoCQta
Post by: jwh1701 on January 09, 2018, 05:56:09 AM
That's a sure red flag. You only need that much shell firms for money laundering, tax evasion and other shady stuff.
Post by: Kyrt on January 09, 2018, 09:59:11 AM
Hello Kyrt,
Document 21 Filed 01/05/18 Page 1 of 4 Page ID #:234
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1mPjfXrjAf9RUq3_5cJgd-hF-I5XoCQta
Thanks...but isn't that just a list of "interested" parties? I don't think Beazley will have much to do with the GLA.
Post by: jwh1701 on January 09, 2018, 10:56:38 AM
Thanks...but isn't that just a list of "interested" parties? I don't think Beazley will have much to do with the GLA.
Post by: DemonInvestor on January 09, 2018, 01:43:10 PM
You got any document showing that RSI is actually an "affiliate" as defined in the GLA ? I mean seemingly SQ42 isn't seen as an affiliate, but a third party.
And i don't think any lawyer would try to use such a defense, if they're actually one entity.
I mean you could totally be right here. But i don't think either of these law firms is employing bumbling idiots.
Post by: StanTheMan on January 09, 2018, 02:03:41 PM
@Derek
You got any document showing that RSI is actually an "affiliate" as defined in the GLA ? I mean seemingly SQ42 isn't seen as an affiliate, but a third party.
And i don't think any lawyer would try to use such a defense, if they're actually one entity.
I mean you could totally be right here. But i don't think either of these law firms is employing bumbling idiots.
Except as the lawyers for the Defendants, they can get away with more bullshit - especially at this stage.
IMO, for the argument to fail, they also don't have to be one entity
Post by: N0mad on January 10, 2018, 07:43:50 AM
Really interesting comments so far - I don't think the cultists have noticed this article yet.
Post by: jwh1701 on January 10, 2018, 09:02:07 AM
New Eurogamer article: Star Citizen, I am disappointed (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-01-09-star-citizen-alpha-3-impressions)
Really interesting comments so far - I don't think the cultists have noticed this article yet.
Post by: N0mad on January 10, 2018, 09:06:50 AM
Thx for the link, interesting to see some media starting to question the CIG narrative.
Good to see a journalist has actually tried playing it :)
Post by: Flashwit on January 10, 2018, 09:30:35 AM
Good to see a journalist has actually tried playing it :)
Also nice to see someone (and at least Eurogamer is somewhat credible) point out that it's still just a tech demo (after 6 years).
Quote
But as a picture-postcard-maker - as a demonstration of technology...
And as has also been mentioned, it's quite a delight to see the cultists be called out on their regurgitated talking points in the comments and be downvoted into non-visibility. Cheers to Eurogamer.
Post by: Greggy_D on January 10, 2018, 01:00:50 PM
Thx for the link, interesting to see some media starting to question the CIG narrative.
They should start asking where the $175 million went.
Post by: Backer42 on January 11, 2018, 12:15:13 PM
Also nice to see someone (and at least Eurogamer is somewhat credible) point out that it's still just a tech demo (after 6 years).These clickbait sites always side with the winners. They hype up complete bullshit for years, then suddenly they always knew it was a turd.
Thing that matters most is how many advertisement clicks it will generate, truth is completely irrelevant in this context.
Post by: jwh1701 on January 11, 2018, 12:20:32 PM
These clickbait sites always side with the winners. They hype up complete bullshit for years, then suddenly they always knew it was a turd.
Thing that matters most is how many advertisement clicks it will generate, truth is completely irrelevant in this context.
Post by: dsmart on January 12, 2018, 08:17:53 AM
As always, the Usual Suspects, otherwise know as the Citizens Defense Force, are in attendance.
Post by: dsmart on January 12, 2018, 10:38:23 AM
"42 Video Game Predictions For 2018"
https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2018/01/11/42-video-game-predictions-for-2018/#751223cd5b1f
Post by: N0mad on January 12, 2018, 10:58:03 AM
Post by: Scruffpuff on January 12, 2018, 12:25:26 PM
It's good to see Star Citizen being treated as the big joke that we all know it to be. Hopefully the rest of the gaming industry will start to realise this as well.
Truth be told the gaming industry proper has been laughing at Star Citizen for a long time now, particularly with how badly they view Chris Roberts (remember that no publisher wanted anything to do with him - he tried to play that off as no interest in space games, but reality was there was no interest in him.)
The interesting thing about gaming media is that there is no governing authority, or even central repository (like the Associated Press or similar) so all these "gaming media" outlets that are so slow to coming around aren't really part of anything official or sanctioned. All it takes to be part of the gaming media is to put out media related to gaming. They're not part of the industry, so the ones who are still misreporting this are not relevant in the grand scheme.
Post by: dsmart on January 12, 2018, 03:32:58 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/fxRTWaM.jpg)
Post by: Aya Reiko on January 13, 2018, 12:18:41 AM
Jan 18th Game Informer magazineYou know, in a bit of irony, the article "Ugly" section talks about the shut down of Marvel Heroes due to Gazillion Entertainment's collapse. For those who don't know what "Marvel Heroes" was, it was a MMO Diablo-clone with a Marvel-shaded coat of paint on it. Here's an article on how much how much that company screwed over it's employees when it all fell apart:
(https://i.imgur.com/fxRTWaM.jpg)
https://kotaku.com/the-last-months-of-gazillion-entertainment-maker-of-ma-1821016486
Hint, hint CiG employees. That's you in the future, and quite possibly soon. The whales didn't save that game, they won't save yours.
Post by: Wipeout on January 13, 2018, 12:30:40 AM
Post by: Wipeout on January 13, 2018, 05:47:58 AM
It is a law researcher who works for a law firm point of view on this
https://tinyurl.com/y8373ott
Post by: jwh1701 on January 13, 2018, 08:09:56 AM
Tried to post this in another thread, but I think it doesn't like links, but tiny url seems to to work. A moderator at SC refunds Reddit posted this article.
It is a law researcher who works for a law firm point of view on this
https://tinyurl.com/y8373ott
Post by: jwh1701 on January 13, 2018, 08:22:01 AM
They are getting deeper and deeper into debt, debt has doubled over the past 6 months, not just taxes but outstanding loans to private individuals too. Just Foundry 42, not CIG as a whole company but the one tiny dev studio Foundry 42 owes £6.2 million in outstanding debts to various people and the UK tax office. If my legal action to review the UK video game tax breaks gets the go ahead by the courts next month then we could blow a massive hole in that budget because they will suddenly owe £10 million+ backdated tax break claims, with interest.
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen_refunds/comments/7pse0k/cig_foundry_42_limited_has_filed_its_6_month/
[–]MaunaLoonaget a refund 4 points 1 day ago
In any case, I don’t think anyone actually wants to torpedo a games studio and make 270 people unemployed via tax law, do they?
Then you never met Juicy. :lol: I laughed at this but I also do not want anyone unemployed.
Post by: N0mad on January 13, 2018, 08:51:14 AM
If my legal action to review the UK video game tax breaks gets the go ahead by the courts next month then we could blow a massive hole in that budget because they will suddenly owe £10 million+ backdated tax break claims, with interest.
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen_refunds/comments/7pse0k/cig_foundry_42_limited_has_filed_its_6_month/
Whoa, I wonder if that has anything to do with Derek's cryptic "what comes next" tweets ? I seem to remember Juicy_K_Girl popping up in legal threads elsewhere in that forum, I'm guessing she's a lawyer in the UK.
Quote
but the same amount of money is disappearing into directors pockets ($2 million per director annually + salary (remuneration) + benefits)
Is this true? Because that sounds like a scam to me.
Post by: StanTheMan on January 13, 2018, 09:32:55 AM
Finally had time to watch the YouTuber Law video and read cgmagonline all these people on the surface paint a terrible picture for Crytek. Let's just say they are correct it seems so implausible to me that Crytek would have ever agreed to it. Unless they are incompetent at the highest levels which I have trouble believing.
It isnt a terrible picture.
Skadden are not involved in this if it were so open and closed.
Skadden have the GLA.
Post by: jwh1701 on January 13, 2018, 10:06:37 AM
I agree with you I just find very odd, reputation is not easy to get back and we have two guys putting it on the line via youtube. This includes all that are ringing alarms which I believe based on evidence have good reason for it. Myself also but in a much smaller way via the my own posts asking questions to SC Supporters. I only have one desire to see the financials and hope that it moves forward with great expediency.
It isnt a terrible picture.
Skadden are not involved in this if it were so open and closed.
Skadden have the GLA.
Post by: StanTheMan on January 13, 2018, 10:34:28 AM
Hello StanTheMan,
I agree with you I just find very odd, reputation is not easy to get back and we have two guys putting it on the line via youtube. This includes all that are ringing alarms which I believe based on evidence have good reason for it. Myself also but in a much smaller way via the my own posts asking questions to SC Supporters. I only have one desire to see the financials and hope that it moves forward with great expediency.
Sure but this is why you need lawyers.
For reasonably intelligent people, it is easy to look at the law and try to interpret it. It is easy to look at case law and say, hey that bit applies to this case and its a slam dunk.
What actually happens is much more uncertain when you get to areas where opposing sets of lawyers disagree. Thats why they settle more often than not (the cost of losing is too great and their estimation of the probability of winning is too low to take the risk)
Lawyers rarely get it so wrong that cases get thrown out in the early stages (although it does happen).
These Youtubers are not putting it on the line.
Lawyers are slippery bastards and it is bread and butter being able to deflect a decision that goes against you (or more likely what Joe Public may claim went against you).
They are not party to all the documents, and although we could reasonably assume that these lawyer commentators have taken that into account before making their predictions, they still have hey have very little to lose.
They also dont represent all lawyers and may easily be appearing to take a position other lawyers would not, by virtue of the fact that most lawyers dont do youtubes making predictions like this.
It is all confusing ....one reason it is so frustrating if you get involved in the law as a layperson with some brains.
The law often seems superfluous to all the horse trading that goes on and I swear most lawyers dont understand the law but understand enough to hedge their bets or keep their mouths shut or deflect when the shit hits the fan (it is the same in many professions)
I sat in front of a Barrister here in the UK discussing a case he was representing me on. My Lawyer also in the room.
I was being advised to settle at £X. The reason being that the judge might think I was lying. This Barrister was about to be appointed judge himself. He didnt reel off any case law as to why my case might not be as strong as I thought (although there was plenty he could have done) and most of my case didnt hinge on my telling the truth as the facts were established and they led to damages for me.
My experience in other cases led me to believe despite all the months of analysis by me of the law and settlement values etc, knowledge of my opponents... there was simple truth .. this guy was near as dammit a judge telling me to settle...it was that simple. I had bee nself representing through several related cases and this one (so I knew a lot and was willing to self represent at trial)
My younger self would have argued with them more, asked for their analysis asked for case law, pointed out a shit load of things I thought were relevant to my case.
At the end of that meeting i agreed to settle if they gave me 20% more. They agreed, we all got paid. I won, my opponent lost.
I could have gone back and said to my Barrister .. look I got 20% on top of what you told me to settle at ..he would possibly have replied ..it was a risk i wouldn't have taken / yes if you'd agreed to settle we would have pushed for a bit more anyway etc etc or more likely , yes well done - aren't you a clever boy !! Truth is we would never know because the outcome was that uncertain and ina sense we were all right - including my opponents who coughed up without going to trial.
So TLDR
So when all is said and done ... Skadden are here (being paid sure) but they are probably not here because this case is getting chucked out before it has started (they get a lot more $$$$$ as this progresses through the process, settlement or not)) The other side are throwing mud because they have little to lose at this stage.
The commentators have almost nothing to lose and if they are right they can claim to have called it. Fail and they will have the benefit of the judges decision/reasoning to defend their position (because the judge will be using something else they will claim not to have had or will leave the door open somewhere for them to use in their defence of their prediction)
Post by: Kyrt on January 13, 2018, 10:58:36 AM
So when all is said and done ... Skadden are here (being paid sure) but they are probably not here because this case is getting chucked out before it has started (they get a lot more $$$$$ as this progresses through the process, settlement or not)) The other side are throwing mud because they have little to lose at this stage.
Personally....I think CryTek have a fairly strong case to show that CIG are guilt.
HOWEVER....I am not convinced they will be able to show intent. Without that, they ha e to fall back on 10.7 for damages. Further, while I think they are guilty, there is a real question of interpretation with respect to what is one of the main charges...that CIG is using one license to develop two games.
Now, CryTek might have emails or other evidence to support their position.
I suspect they do. That would explain the tone I got from CIGs response...aggressive. Panicky. Desperate. OK....reading too much into it.
CryTek seem to have a strong case for four of the 5 charges. I'm just not sure they'll get much from the effort of doing all this.
Post by: StanTheMan on January 13, 2018, 01:01:15 PM
Personally....I think CryTek have a fairly strong case to show that CIG are guilt.
HOWEVER....I am not convinced they will be able to show intent. Without that, they ha e to fall back on 10.7 for damages. Further, while I think they are guilty, there is a real question of interpretation with respect to what is one of the main charges...that CIG is using one license to develop two games.
Now, CryTek might have emails or other evidence to support their position.
I suspect they do. That would explain the tone I got from CIGs response...aggressive. Panicky. Desperate. OK....reading too much into it.
CryTek seem to have a strong case for four of the 5 charges. I'm just not sure they'll get much from the effort of doing all this.
IMO Skadden wouldnt be peppering their complaint with intent if they didn't think it had long legs.
All good fun though isnt it. ?
I remember how long the Glider v Blizzard case took re WoW and that didnt have anything like as much potential for twists and turns as this showdown.
Post by: Spunky Munkee on January 13, 2018, 03:37:22 PM
I do have to think that the only way CIG's reply could be true is if Ortwin sold Crytek on such a one sided contract that screwed Crytek badly. Is it possible that they relied on him solely in interpreting the contact and misled them as to its meaning? I doubt Crytek's lawyers would take the case if that were true.
Post by: Wipeout on January 13, 2018, 03:48:28 PM
I think that a lot of what CIG claims is window dressing. They know this is being tried in the court of public opinion and need to keep the whales onboard. Time will tell. When the fat lady sings we can all talk about it, until then everybody's opinions are worthless.
I do have to think that the only way CIG's reply could be true is if Ortwin sold Crytek on such a one sided contract that screwed Crytek badly. Is it possible that they relied on him solely in interpreting the contact and misled them as to its meaning? I doubt Crytek's lawyers would take the case if that were true.
A contract for a game license that says you have to use that engine and only that engine would be extremely unusual, putting so much power to the engine creators, would be extremely unusual. That is something my game developing friends have told me at least.
At this point for me to change my opinion it would take Crytek producing evidence that shows communication that changes the meanings in the GLA, otherwise if they don't have it then things are likely going to go into CIGs
favor lets hope they have that evidence.
Post by: StanTheMan on January 13, 2018, 05:05:23 PM
I do have to think that the only way CIG's reply could be true is if Ortwin sold Crytek on such a one sided contract that screwed Crytek badly. Is it possible that they relied on him solely in interpreting the contact and misled them as to its meaning? I doubt Crytek's lawyers would take the case if that were true.
Any of us that are long in the tooth know that you do get corporate fuck ups.
It seems incredible that Crytek wouldn't have taken a very long hard look at any GLA about to be agreed with CIG when Ortwin had jumped ship and was now negotiating for CIG and not Crytek.
Post by: dsmart on January 13, 2018, 05:56:20 PM
Unlike those famous Youtube lawyers calling the PR laden bullshit that CIG responsed with a "slam dunk", this one is a more measured and unbiased take. Read it.
http://www.cgmagonline.com/2018/01/12/crytek-v-star-citizen-defense-lands/
Post by: Wipeout on January 13, 2018, 06:15:10 PM
Can a Judge dismiss dismiss some complaints of case while keeping others there? Or is it where if some things can be dismissed the whole complaint can be dissmissed? Or is it where if not everything can be dismissed than none of the case can be dismissed?
Post by: dsmart on January 14, 2018, 05:19:05 AM
So it looks like if Crytek cannot provide evidence with communications between CIG and Crytek that shows that the contract has a different meaning than the "golden rule" the 3 points he mentions would most likely go in the favor of CIG.
It's not that cut and dry. The Golden Rule is a set of guidelines, not a slam dunk decision; or there won't be any contract law disputes in court.
But yes, discovery and depositions will serve to yield more insight into the "intent" of the contract. And that's what I've been saying since I started covering the lawsuit.
Quote
Can a Judge dismiss dismiss some complaints of case while keeping others there? Or is it where if some things can be dismissed the whole complaint can be dissmissed? Or is it where if not everything can be dismissed than none of the case can be dismissed?
She can't dismiss claims. She can only rule on the specifics of the motion to dismiss. And in doing that, she can agree to dismiss anything, while keeping others. It's not the case there being one that's solid, and so everything gets dismissed.
Post by: dsmart on January 17, 2018, 08:30:18 AM
Post by: Penny579 on January 19, 2018, 12:38:05 AM
Robert Marks, a legal researcher for Bien Law, weighs in on the Crytek v CIG lawsuit.
Unlike those famous Youtube lawyers calling the PR laden bullshit that CIG responsed with a "slam dunk", this one is a more measured and unbiased take. Read it.
http://www.cgmagonline.com/2018/01/12/crytek-v-star-citizen-defense-lands/
I don't know why everyone finds its so crazy professionals disagree, I have seen engineers have screaming matches over whats possible, I never seen two geologists agree, heaps of people get a second doctors opinion when they don't like the answer they get, economists don't even try and agree.
suddenly lawyers who's very job is to disagree and argue opposite views are incompetent for not coming down on the 'right' side.
all we can say for sure is that clearly, an argument that is yet to be settled yet, and because crytek are spending money on this so you would expect they have some more firepower up there sleeve, i would be surprised if it got thrown out from just reading the very document that they are claiming has breached, especially after paying like $1000 an hour for legal advice.
Post by: N0mad on January 19, 2018, 12:48:22 AM
suddenly lawyers who's very job is to disagree and argue opposite views are incompetent for not coming down on the 'right' side.
all we can say for sure is that clearly, an argument that is yet to be settled yet, and because crytek are spending money on this so you would expect they have some more firepower up there sleeve, i would be surprised if it got thrown out from just reading the very document that they are claiming has breached, especially after paying like $1000 an hour for legal advice.
The main criticism is that these YouTube lawyers came down on one side so soon. I don't think anyone will disagree with the more reasoned and measured approach from cgmagonline.
Sure, we wouldn't be so critical if the YT lawyers were siding with Crytek but right now they're feeding the hopes of (& pandering to) the toxic SC community.
Apparently today is the Crytek response day. This should be VERY interesting.
Post by: Penny579 on January 19, 2018, 08:37:27 AM
The main criticism is that these YouTube lawyers came down on one side so soon. I don't think anyone will disagree with the more reasoned and measured approach from cgmagonline.
Sure, we wouldn't be so critical if the YT lawyers were siding with Crytek but right now they're feeding the hopes of (& pandering to) the toxic SC community.
Apparently today is the Crytek response day. This should be VERY interesting.
I know right !!! i only have minimum backing in the game, its worth it because you simply cant buy this kind of ridiculous drama. maybe we can get a spin off judge judy episode.
Post by: dsmart on January 19, 2018, 09:33:43 AM
suddenly lawyers who's very job is to disagree and argue opposite views are incompetent for not coming down on the 'right' side.
Clearly you missed the boat on that one. NOBODY is saying they have to be on any side. That's the whole point of being neutral and unbiased.
Go ahead, watch these two videos, and tell me why you think either one of those two buffoons are qualified enough to immediately give CIG the upperhand, when in fact not only are all the facts NOT yet disclosed, but the case hasn't even made to discovery. Leonard French flat out stated that if he were the judge, he would rule in favor of CIG. Did you miss that?
Post by: dsmart on January 19, 2018, 09:36:04 AM
The main criticism is that these YouTube lawyers came down on one side so soon. I don't think anyone will disagree with the more reasoned and measured approach from cgmagonline.
Sure, we wouldn't be so critical if the YT lawyers were siding with Crytek but right now they're feeding the hopes of (& pandering to) the toxic SC community.
Apparently today is the Crytek response day. This should be VERY interesting.
That's precisely it. They are making uninformed opinions in a bit to pander to a cult of people they're hoping to turn into subscribers/viewers. It's fucking pathetic.
Post by: Motto on January 19, 2018, 01:07:46 PM
Post by: mtn355 on January 19, 2018, 02:17:04 PM
Page#257 line13,14:
If RSI Is Not A Party To The GLA, Then Crytek's
Claims For Copyright Infringement Are Even Stronger
Fatality!
Kevin, Finish Them.
Post by: Wipeout on January 19, 2018, 02:58:03 PM
Well here is to the hopes that this actually goes to discovery and to trial and that Crytek still have something to show that makes the GLA mean something different than what it "naturally" means.
Post by: Motto on January 19, 2018, 03:07:01 PM
Post by: Wipeout on January 19, 2018, 03:09:28 PM
So, comprehensive reading wasn't your thing? Like, at all?
yes I did read it comprehensively, and I left disappointed. Just because I didn't get the same thing out of it as you does not mean I didn't do a comprehensive reading.
Post by: Motto on January 19, 2018, 03:15:31 PM
Post by: dsmart on January 19, 2018, 03:24:39 PM
Well I read it and feel disappointed, it wasn't any kind of "nuclear" bomb that Derek alluded predicting, imo it was more like a firecracker.
Yeah, you're just kidding, right?
Post by: Wipeout on January 19, 2018, 03:27:17 PM
If you only read a firecracker, you may need some glasses. The only thing that you can get from the response is that CIG is completely, utterly and totally fucked. Any other conclusion only means that you haven't read it correctly.
I disagree, and there is nothing there that puts it as CIG being totally F'd, imo. I know you guys will disagree because you guys seem to latch onto anything and everything that might be negative and then over exaggerate it. I have no love for this project and only got into this whole thing to see the drama unfold, and I want to see Crytek win this, but I don't go for the automatic exaggerations of anything negative that you guys seem to do, I try to keep things as objective as I can.
This is all i am going to say, cause I can already see things heating up here and bordering on attacks, and I do not want to get into that kind of crap. In fact I'm just going to leave this place, cause I am finding this place to being very toxic towards anybody that doesn't share the same exact views as others, basically an echo chamber here.
Post by: jwh1701 on January 19, 2018, 03:29:26 PM
I not sure if I'm slightly biased due to being upset with CIG, but the response was incredible.
When I got to page 28 I was shocked at the evidence presented against Freyermuth.
After reading it I only wish we had a hidden camera at the CIG meeting to hear them discuss it.
Post by: DemonInvestor on January 19, 2018, 03:32:21 PM
Especially naming the omission in the defense. So it should be very likely to enter court.
Post by: dsmart on January 19, 2018, 03:38:49 PM
I disagree, and there is nothing there that puts it as CIG being totally F'd, imo. I know you guys will disagree because you guys seem to latch onto anything and everything that might be negative and then over exaggerate it. I have no love for this project and only got into this whole thing to see the drama unfold, and I want to see Crytek win this, but I don't go for the automatic exaggerations of anything negative that you guys seem to do, I try to keep things as objective as I can.
I think that's what is called a discussion. Or maybe that's just me.
Quote
This is all i am going to say, cause I can already see things heating up here and bordering on attacks, and I do not want to get into that kind of crap.
You're making a mountain out of a molehill just because people disagree with you?
Quote
In fact I'm just going to leave this place, cause I am finding this place to being very toxic towards anybody that doesn't share the same exact views as others, basically an echo chamber here.
LOL!! he really did rage quit and deleted his account. wth?
Post by: dsmart on January 19, 2018, 03:40:01 PM
I just finished reading it and I was surprised at how well they responded and it was easy for me to follow.
I not sure if I'm slightly biased due to being upset with CIG, but the response was incredible.
When I got to page 28 I was shocked at the evidence presented against Freyermuth.
After reading it I only wish we had a hidden camera at the CIG meeting to hear them discuss it.
I am just disappointed that they opted not to include the Ortwin waiver, but hinted that they would present it if needed by the court. Skadden has a strategy, so they're hanging that one over Ortwin's head for now.
Post by: jwh1701 on January 19, 2018, 04:00:19 PM
I am just disappointed that they opted not to include the Ortwin waiver, but hinted that they would present it if needed by the court. Skadden has a strategy, so they're hanging that one over Ortwin's head for now.
They really did a good job and I believe they completely shutdown the arguments presented by CIG and the two YouTube lawyers. It was interesting they alluded to that document but are withholding it. I certainly feel confident that the lawsuit will move forward after reading the response. Look forward to your overview of it also.
Post by: dsmart on January 19, 2018, 04:03:53 PM
Quote
French admitted has was wrong last week, I don't know why dense Star Citizen fanboys kept referring to his previous statements. He said he hadn't read the entire case, only a handful of documents on the livestream, and he could be wrong based on those facts, which he was.
https://twitter.com/UnsafestSpace/status/954463514793578496
Post by: dsmart on January 19, 2018, 04:08:27 PM
Looks like French learned his lesson from last time. Today's video on the Skadden filing
Post by: jwh1701 on January 19, 2018, 04:10:14 PM
Well apparently Leonard French already recanted his previous flawed opinions.
https://twitter.com/UnsafestSpace/status/954463514793578496
:lol: few raisins short of a fruitcake, and will take everything literally.
Going to take time and watch his new video,
Already crazy posts here's one missing a few raisins.
John Kim
John Kim
58 minutes ago
Crytek's arguments are all garbage, leaving out critical pieces of information to support their arguments.
Post by: Motto on January 19, 2018, 04:24:37 PM
LOL!! he really did rage quit and deleted his account. wth?
I honestly don't know what he was expecting to find here :shrug:
He brought back some fond memories of Serenstupidity though...
Post by: dsmart on January 19, 2018, 05:15:08 PM
I honestly don't know what he was expecting to find here :shrug:
He brought back some fond memories of Serenstupidity though...
I honestly think it was him.
Post by: Spunky Munkee on January 19, 2018, 05:29:25 PM
The people who actually WIN these cases would never reveal anything here, for free.
Why don't we reserve judgement until the REAL PROFESSIONALS do their thing and win lose or settle.
While some of the purported lawyers opinions may have some merit they don't have the whole story thus their opinions are based upon the tip of the iceberg. In addition, their opinions may be skewered.
The opinions of the remainder of the You Tube sock puppets who are shills for Croberts and the Whales are worthless as ever and should be ignored unless you need something to help you pass your bowels.
Post by: jwh1701 on January 19, 2018, 05:43:02 PM
Well apparently Leonard French already recanted his previous flawed opinions.
https://twitter.com/UnsafestSpace/status/954463514793578496
Leonard starts out more tepid but then definitely has an undertone still towards CIG.
31:00 Shows Chris lied about working on the game for a year before the kickstarter, no one blinks an eye.
33:00 Completely still disagrees with Crytek, says cig can use any engine to make the game.
35:20 still says crytek is not interpreting 2.4 correctly
41:47 says skadden is using double speak from what I can gather, could be wrong
45:07 skadden doesn't understand copyright infringement
48:08 states the breaches are not big, he thinks crytek wanted more money
51:12 states cytek claims can be blown out of water depending on interpretation of the license statement above 1. / 1.1
1:01 says crytek made a 24 page gla that is ambiguous, lots of mistakes have been made
1:04:50 says good luck proving any damages
1:05:07 thinks the only solid claim is the bug fixes
1:05:25 calls bush## on copyright infringement
1:08 new term "hammer and nail case" to try and push the one game narrative
1:09 Crytek admits they do not know if CIG is using their tech
1:10:51 says they both have different interpretation of what breach a contract is. Says its not a breach of copyright if its breach of contract.
1:13:18 says its way to late for cytek to file copyright under statuary damages
1:16:44 says crytek is disingenuous going back on conflict with ortwin.
1:20 thinks judge will take this to discovery, and the lawsuit is a lot of petty stuff, says the gla is terrible
Person donated $1000 to him and will be going on John's show.
Post by: StanTheMan on January 19, 2018, 10:00:43 PM
IMO Skadden wouldnt be peppering their complaint with intent if they didn't think it had long legs.
All good fun though isnt it. ?
I remember how long the Glider v Blizzard case took re WoW and that didnt have anything like as much potential for twists and turns as this showdown.
Nice to see the Glider case (MDY Industries v Blizzard) was quoted in Skadden's reply today..I followed that for a few years with the takeaway that where there is wrongdoing (producing a bot for WoW) the law is going to take you down but on appeal not go over the top. Now that case was akin to a photocopier manufacturer being fond guilty of copyright infringement because someone used one of their photocopiers to copy copy write protected material. AS Derek has said he will do in this case, there were consumer interested bodies filing Amicus Briefings with this case (not that they appeared to have done much good with the original trial judge as it went to an appeal)
So will a Jury find Crytek to be in the wrong here or CRoberts ? Hmmmm !!!!
The Judge would direct the Jury and IMHO ...they are going to see CIG as the robbers here and Crytek ( and Backers) as the injured party.
CIG would have to be mad (or have no choice other than) to take this to a trial....
Post by: Aya Reiko on January 19, 2018, 11:38:55 PM
LOL!! he really did rage quit and deleted his account. wth?Ahhh... And here I was about to accuse him of being another Serenstupidity alt. :saddowns: But one thing was clear, both were cut from the same Shitizen-brand cloth of denial; "Facts be damned, CRoberts is infallible." :laugh:
Post by: Kyrt on January 20, 2018, 01:51:25 AM
If you only read a firecracker, you may need some glasses. The only thing that you can get from the response is that CIG is completely, utterly and totally fucked. Any other conclusion only means that you haven't read it correctly.
CryTek countered many of the points CIG raised...to a degree.
But, end of the day, this is still coming down to how a judge is going to interpret certain key phrases and what they mean under law.
CIGs MtD was never going to succeed but that doesn't mean they won't win.
Post by: DemonInvestor on January 20, 2018, 02:09:08 AM
CryTek countered many of the points CIG raised...to a degree.
But, end of the day, this is still coming down to how a judge is going to interpret certain key phrases and what they mean under law.
CIGs MtD was never going to succeed but that doesn't mean they won't win.
It's not even as simple as win/loose.
CryTek might win or loose on any point, which means we don't know what damages they can claim in the end.
Post by: Kyrt on January 20, 2018, 02:16:34 AM
33:00 Completely still disagrees with Crytek, says cig can use any engine to make the game.
I think that depend son the definition of the word "exclusive".
Quote
35:20 still says crytek is not interpreting 2.4 correctly
Let's be honest here - that IS a noncompete clause. Its doubtful - IMO - that CryTek has any documentation or emails showing it to be anything else other than what it is. That doesn't mean Skadden won't try, and on a literal reading, it could be argued that the use of promotion of Lumberyard by CIG is contrary to 2.4...
But it is, at the end of the day, a non compete clause. Even using LumberYard doesn't mean CIG is "in the business of" promoting or developing an engine.
I'd agree with French here, but as I said, that doesn't mean Skadden cannot make it mean what they want it to mean.
Quote
51:12 states cytek claims can be blown out of water depending on interpretation of the license statement above 1. / 1.1
1:01 says crytek made a 24 page gla that is ambiguous, lots of mistakes have been made
I'm not sure about that. I'm not a lawyer, but the meaning of the GLA seems pretty clear to me.
Quote
1:08 new term "hammer and nail case" to try and push the one game narrative
Exhibit 2 defines a standalone game.
S42 seems to qualify...unless you want to argue that a standalone game that is marketed and sold as a standalone game that doesn't require Star Citizen to run somehow coiunts as using the Star Citizen client.
Quote
1:09 Crytek admits they do not know if CIG is using their tech
Part of discovery. Two days to switch engine is not a plausible statement...but it could be just marketing PR. But two days isn't enough time to test and modify and replace code and assets. LY and SE both started from similar bases, but both teams were boasting about how they'd rewritten 65% or more of each engine....that's gotta be hugely divergent, especially with certain fundamental aspects changed. Then again, there are some people who have reported decompiling the code and who report some CryEngine code still present. But it doesn't only matter if the code is or is not present now - but WHEN it was switched.
More importantly is the question as to if S42 could be argued to have been developed using LY only.
Quote
1:20 thinks judge will take this to discovery, and the lawsuit is a lot of petty stuff, says the gla is terrible
Of course it is terrible. But it also depends on what supporting documentation they have. As it is, it also seems to give CIG very little power and a "plain English" reading of 2.1.2 would seem to support CryTeks assertions. The big suspect issue is the damage waiver...I'm still not sure why CryTek agreed to that.
In essence, the GLA offers CIG a very cheap engine deal with limited training and no real support, but allows CryTek to wash its hands of the project while requiring CIG to promote CryEngine (regardless of engine), improve CryEngine and share such improvements (64 bit positioning, localised physic grids, subsumption AI and the rest) with a perpetual, royalty free license and offers no effective termination clause.
To be honest, that CIG accepted a clause that required it to promote CryEngine is, to me, a fair sign they intended to use only CryEngine. As it is, even if they used Unity or something else, CryEngine would need to be promoted.
Post by: DemonInvestor on January 20, 2018, 02:53:07 AM
Exhibit 2 defines a standalone game.
S42 seems to qualify...unless you want to argue that a standalone game that is marketed and sold as a standalone game that doesn't require Star Citizen to run somehow coiunts as using the Star Citizen client.
The problem is that standalone game seems to be somewhat defined by the starting through the same launcher.
One could argue against that (Total War series launched through one application, but different games), but also for it (X-Com 2 WotC, started as modules within one exe - being a add-on). Not having researched the usage of such terms in american courts, means i've no clue how they'd rule on that.
Part of discovery. Two days to switch engine is not a plausible statement...but it could be just marketing PR. But two days isn't enough time to test and modify and replace code and assets. LY and SE both started from similar bases, but both teams were boasting about how they'd rewritten 65% or more of each engine....that's gotta be hugely divergent, especially with certain fundamental aspects changed. Then again, there are some people who have reported decompiling the code and who report some CryEngine code still present. But it doesn't only matter if the code is or is not present now - but WHEN it was switched.
The question here also is how courts rule on switching between two different engines using similar source code offered under different licenses, when at least one license is trying to ensure that no similar game is made with or without the copyrighted source code within a certain timeframe.
The When question is also interesting, because CIG and CryTek agreed upon what defines initial release. And i'd guess there's a difference between changing engines before release and after release.
Post by: Spunky Munkee on January 20, 2018, 03:33:16 AM
That's what this is all supposed to be about. There is NO GAME.
Regardless of the outcome of this lawsuit the fact remains that this is a money pit that has sucked up over 170 million dollars and has no end in sight. Admittedly should Crytek succeed it could hasten the demise of this sham masquerading as a game development.
Just create a kickstarter fund to buy Chris Roberts a Hot Dog cart and perhaps we will see him manage a business that matches his skill set.
Post by: jwh1701 on January 20, 2018, 12:01:29 PM
Interesting write up about what happened when one developer ran out of crowd funded money.
He did not make grand promises or sale jpgs he stepped up and funded it. Have to research it more
looks interesting but I refuse to play games where you can be grieved when you logoff.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-01-19-why-the-people-behind-crowdfunded-camelot-unchained-wont-sell-spaceships-or-castles
Post by: mtn355 on January 20, 2018, 01:51:38 PM
Has anyone noticed that while everybody is talking about this lawsuit nobody is talking about the failed state of the game?
That's what this is all supposed to be about. There is NO GAME.
Oh, of course I have,
this is the single most bewildering thought i have whenever I watch SC footage:
Yeah - looks nice but - where The F is the game??!!!
I mean, ~30 min to get to be mission ready? Really?!
(Obiously CR has no children.
I just have max time for 30-60 mins to play games a day -
and there are numerous games which satisfy that.)
And it won't redefine PC gaming anymore -
the hardware specs are so out of touch with reality, it's so hilarious.
I guess nearly everyone who really wants to play this "game" has already maxed out his rig -
the rest won't bother to buy in this farce anymore.
Fun Fact:
I had a quick glance at the CIG website -
they are currently looking for a
"Lead Gameplay Programmer" in Frankfurt, Germany.
(A bit late, IMHO :D)
Another fun fact:
Just look up "most anticipated games 2018" -
look at 5 or more articles -
I didn't find SC mentioned anywhere!
Cheers,
MT
Post by: Spunky Munkee on January 20, 2018, 03:07:56 PM
I don't mind. At this point these shitizens are simply digging themselves into a deeper and deeper hole. I think the ones that cannot be labeled as clearly mentally deficient have already requested refunds. The rest... who cares? But Roberts and Ortwin and Sandi deserve criminal prosecution. Ineptitude and malfeasance (even for CFO/CLO) on this level cannot be allowed to remain unpunished.
Post by: Backer42 on January 20, 2018, 07:26:46 PM
CIGs MtD was never going to succeed but that doesn't mean they won't win.CIG/RSI/Ortwin already lost, when they got sued by CT. A win would have been settling out of court, without the public taking notice.
If Amazon cancels their AWS (to bar CIG/RSI/CR from using LY), they are never going to find another engine vendor willing to contract them.
Post by: Penny579 on January 20, 2018, 07:50:41 PM
But it is, at the end of the day, a non compete clause. Even using LumberYard doesn't mean CIG is "in the business of" promoting or developing an engine.
doesn't look promotional to me
Post by: Penny579 on January 20, 2018, 07:57:45 PM
Has anyone noticed that while everybody is talking about this lawsuit nobody is talking about the failed state of the game?
That's what this is all supposed to be about. There is NO GAME.
Regardless of the outcome of this lawsuit the fact remains that this is a money pit that has sucked up over 170 million dollars and has no end in sight. Admittedly should Crytek succeed it could hasten the demise of this sham masquerading as a game development.
Just create a kickstarter fund to buy Chris Roberts a Hot Dog cart and perhaps we will see him manage a business that matches his skill set.
Your honor as you can see we have produced NO Games, not TWO as crytyek claim, not ONE as we agreed , its ZERO GAMES. and no where in the GLA does it say we can't market and sell two separate packages of jpegs.
Post by: Aya Reiko on January 20, 2018, 10:15:33 PM
Has anyone noticed that while everybody is talking about this lawsuit nobody is talking about the failed state of the game?Because it's dead, Jim. We're just waiting for Skadden to push it into its grave and pile on the dirt afterward.
That's what this is all supposed to be about. There is NO GAME.
Regardless of the outcome of this lawsuit the fact remains that this is a money pit that has sucked up over 170 million dollars and has no end in sight. Admittedly should Crytek succeed it could hasten the demise of this sham masquerading as a game development.
Just create a kickstarter fund to buy Chris Roberts a Hot Dog cart and perhaps we will see him manage a business that matches his skill set.
Then we'll have a nice spot to piss on.
Post by: Kyrt on January 21, 2018, 12:33:25 AM
CIG/RSI/Ortwin already lost, when they got sued by CT. A win would have been settling out of court, without the public taking notice.
The backers don't care. They'll continue funding CIG no matter what, so as long as Chris is willing to take their money, they appear ready to give it.
Quote
If Amazon cancels their AWS (to bar CIG/RSI/CR from using LY), they are never going to find another engine vendor willing to contract them.
Doubt Amazon would do that.
Post by: Kyrt on January 21, 2018, 12:35:02 AM
doesn't look promotional to me
Are CIG "in the business" of promoting, developing, marketing, etc another engine?
No.
Post by: Spunky Munkee on January 21, 2018, 12:39:57 AM
Post by: Penny579 on January 21, 2018, 01:50:57 AM
Are CIG "in the business" of promoting, developing, marketing, etc another engine?
No.
then explain there wtf they are doing in that lumberyard commercial ?
literally they are in the add as CIG 'the business'
its an advertisement so its marketing by default
they talk about working with amazon which is developing
they talk up lumberyard, which is promotional
i don't know how much more clear cut you could get.
Post by: DemonInvestor on January 21, 2018, 02:28:14 AM
Are CIG "in the business" of promoting, developing, marketing, etc another engine?
No.
Let's argue that for a a moment. Legal definitions simply differ from common definitions. Just in the last year i'd to report the numbers of employees three times to my gov, every time following a different legal definition. They same holds true for the definition of consumer and such.
Commercially and business can be defined as doing something for a profit/gain. Does CIG gain something by promoting Lumberyard? Yes they actually do. So in that sense it definately is business.
https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/does+the+business
But naturally it isn't CIGs primary business, it could be counted as a side activity, therefore not falling under a non-competition clause - which the clause its written might encompass.
So to make it clear, i'm not saying it is business, but it might be business.
Post by: Kyrt on January 21, 2018, 04:17:31 AM
then explain there wtf they are doing in that lumberyard commercial ?
They are promoting LumberYard.
They are not "in the business" of promoting an engine.
Just because I bake a loaf of bread does not make me a professional baker. I would not be "in the business" of baking therefore any agreement that requires me to be a professional baker would not be actionable.
Whether or not Skadden can make it means something else is a real question, but that the clause refers to CIG being "in the business" of doing something is different from CIG simply doing it.
2.4 prevents CIG from being "in the business" of performing those actions. It's a non compete clause. CIG could not take the knowledge it gained from working on CryEngine and use that knowledge to produce its own engine.
But - so long as it isn't "in the business" - there is nothing there that really says CIG can't perform those actions so long as it isn't in the business.
It will be interesting to see if Skadden can make its interpretation stick.
Post by: dsmart on January 21, 2018, 06:06:49 AM
2.4 prevents CIG from being "in the business" of performing those actions. It's a non compete clause. CIG could not take the knowledge it gained from working on CryEngine and use that knowledge to produce its own engine.
But - so long as it isn't "in the business" - there is nothing there that really says CIG can't perform those actions so long as it isn't in the business.
It will be interesting to see if Skadden can make its interpretation stick.
I disagree that's just a non-compete clause; as does Skadden. Now we wait for the judge to decide.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTDv5KtWAAAf6mS.jpg)
Post by: Kyrt on January 21, 2018, 07:30:52 AM
I disagree that's just a non-compete clause; as does Skadden. Now we wait for the judge to decide.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTDv5KtWAAAf6mS.jpg)
I'm not going to argue ;)
I disagree, and feel that the clauses purpose and intent is primarily as a non-compete, but there is enough vagueness that Skadden (especially with that "indirectly" aspect) could plausibly argue that tweaking LumberYard counts as developing, taking part in videos counts as promoting and that even they aren't "in the business" per se, that this all counts as "indirect" support.
Post by: N0mad on January 21, 2018, 10:48:31 AM
2.4 prevents CIG from being "in the business" of performing those actions. It's a non compete clause. CIG could not take the knowledge it gained from working on CryEngine and use that knowledge to produce its own engine.
But - so long as it isn't "in the business" - there is nothing there that really says CIG can't perform those actions so long as it isn't in the business.
Yeah, 2.4 is really interesting, and it's been dismissed by the SC community (& YT Lawyers) as a non-compete clause. Which it is. BUT the key for me is the OR between selling OR licensing. So the question is: are CIG in the business of developing, supporting, OR promoting a competing game engine? Clearly the answer is yes to some if not all these points. At the very least they are now promoting LY.
I'm sure that there's enough ambiguity in the GLA to necessitate a court appearance. This won't be going away any time soon.
Curiously, SC Reddit seem to have completely ignored the Skadden response.
Post by: Kyrt on January 21, 2018, 11:02:40 AM
Yeah, 2.4 is really interesting, and it's been dismissed by the SC community (& YT Lawyers) as a non-compete clause. Which it is. BUT the key for me is the OR between selling OR licensing. So the question is: are CIG in the business of developing, supporting, OR promoting a competing game engine? Clearly the answer is yes to some if not all these points. At the very least they are now promoting LY.
I'm sure that there's enough ambiguity in the GLA to necessitate a court appearance. This won't be going away any time soon.
Curiously, SC Reddit seem to have completely ignored the Skadden response.
If you want to assume that this can be extended beyond a simple non-compete clause, and that the "indirect" aspect catches them...
...then CIG are promoting LumberYard by displaying its logos (instead of CryTeks) and appearing in videos.
...It might also be said to be developing LumberYard if they share their code with Amazon.
...they have licensed LumberYard which would be also against 2.4, and would support CryTeks assertion that "exclusive" means "exclusive"
...By enhancing their game engine through the development of new netcode and server code and AI routines etc, they are developing for a competing engine regardless of whether the code is shared with Amazon or not, and are arguably supporting it AND creating a need to maintain it. The clause doesn't mention anything about whether it is shared or not, whether the beneficiary is CIG or some other body - just that the act is performed. Similarly, because the GLA is not terminated, CIG are legally obligated by the GLA to display and promote CryTeks logos in game no matter what engine they use (indeed, that such a clause exists could even be said to support that the intention was for no other engine otherwise displaying the logos would be contingent on the engine being used)
2.4 - if you don't limit it to a non-compete clause - is fairly damning towards CIG. If CIG respond, alongside the RSI signature issue, I would expect them to hammer home the assertion that 2.4 is a simple non-compete clause.
I would still argue that the intent and purpose of this clause is primarily as a non-compete clause and that Skadden are extending its scope beyond what it was originally intended to do. But, as I said, with the "indirectly" phrase embedded, Skaddens argument is plausible.
Post by: dsmart on January 21, 2018, 11:17:32 AM
Post by: StanTheMan on January 21, 2018, 01:24:22 PM
Because it's dead, Jim. We're just waiting for Skadden to push it into its grave and pile on the dirt afterward.
Before they are covered up with soil, I suspect there will be plenty of people queing up to squat over the open grave and pinch off a loaf.
Post by: StanTheMan on January 21, 2018, 01:28:02 PM
Post by: dsmart on January 21, 2018, 02:14:19 PM
Post by: Penny579 on January 22, 2018, 07:39:51 AM
But naturally it isn't CIGs primary business, it could be counted as a side activity, therefore not falling under a non-competition clause - which the clause its written might encompass.
So to make it clear, i'm not saying it is business, but it might be business.
I take your point there may be some legal wizardry that could work around this on technicality. however it would seam nonsensical if it could something dismissed because it is not a primary activity. BP and shell sell solar panels but it would be considered a side activity from there oil business so they are not competing with in solar ?
It would be an almost comical stretch of the imagination to think the intent of the clause was "'do become a marketing firm that promotes game engines and promote competing engines''
well maybe because we know how good CIG are at marketing.
They are promoting LumberYard.
They are not "in the business" of promoting an engine.
Just because I bake a loaf of bread does not make me a professional baker. I would not be "in the business" of baking therefore any agreement that requires me to be a professional baker would not be actionable.
No you are in business of baking the moment you receive some consideration for trading bread. but you can stay at home and bake bread all your like.
Chris could go to the pub every night and tell everyone how great unreal engine is, as long as no one pays him, or unreal does not pay his tab.
what you can't do is go on tv with your new game engine partners and tell the world how great they are for a free star citizen plug.
I agree they will need to prove this in court, but surely you admit this point at least looks to be a up hill battle.
Post by: dsmart on January 22, 2018, 08:02:06 AM
http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=127.0
Post by: dsmart on January 27, 2018, 07:29:02 AM
https://www.pcinvasion.com/star-citizen-gets-new-website-and-trailer
Post by: jwh1701 on January 27, 2018, 08:24:43 AM
In case you haven't seen the latest Star Citizen trailer, which isn't even reflective of the game, read this.
https://www.pcinvasion.com/star-citizen-gets-new-website-and-trailer
No surprise for me that they would take a lot of time to do the cut scenes just right to make it look like they have a playable game.
Even if a few people are deceived into buying the game it will not keep them afloat. I wonder why its taking so long to get the
ships still listed unavailable on the website, as I know they have to be chomping at the bit to sale more.
Post by: dsmart on February 12, 2018, 02:21:49 PM
My Tweet storm (https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/963156763242631170) @polygon @bbb_us
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DV3VIWpWkAEnQhG.jpg)
Post by: justme on February 14, 2018, 04:27:43 AM
after a 30k-backer asked for a refund, because he told he was lied by concierge-support
Post by: jwh1701 on February 14, 2018, 06:14:33 AM
after a 30k-backer asked for a refund, because he told he was lied by concierge-support
Be great if this individual would share what transpired with CIG.
Post by: dsmart on February 14, 2018, 04:37:44 PM
after a 30k-backer asked for a refund, because he told he was lied by concierge-support
wow. they don't even care anymore. I am going to reach out to him to find out what happened. If you know him, please ask him to reach out to me via my Discord channel (invite : https://discord.gg/7nUXA9u)
Post by: dsmart on February 20, 2018, 09:42:33 AM
http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/6239/
Post by: Motto on February 20, 2018, 12:17:45 PM
CIG DEV, FEB 29th, 2018
Post by: dsmart on February 20, 2018, 01:06:37 PM
Post by: Motto on February 20, 2018, 01:41:18 PM
Post by: jwh1701 on February 20, 2018, 01:49:52 PM
If you missed the latest big news that Star Citizen is no longer an MMO, here is my latest
http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/6239/
Great write up, enjoying getting an understanding of the fundamentals in game design. With all the back tracking its going to get harder to keep saying its taking time since its never been done before.
Post by: hurrdurr on February 20, 2018, 01:52:50 PM
If you missed the latest big news that Star Citizen is no longer an MMO, here is my latest
http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/6239/
Seems like they should just change the name of the game to Stanton Citizen :laugh: Also whats the purpose of allowing sub-quantum travel between servers... just so that a player can feel like they're not changing servers/instances? :rolleyes:
Post by: dsmart on February 22, 2018, 06:33:54 AM
Post by: krylite on February 25, 2018, 07:15:58 PM
Post by: dsmart on February 26, 2018, 02:11:29 PM
(https://imgur.com/KNZ4PIK.jpg)
In a thread about Star Citizen and Derek Smart on a german forum a user posted a link to an article of the german gamestar magazine from 2014. Quite remarkable is not only to read this article today, about four years later and comparing what was promised or was said to be right around the corner, and what is here today. But in particular a picture in the article that might be the perfectly condensed image of the relationship between the CIG and the big players in the gaming press in the early days in particular. The journalist of the magazine (left) literally went to bed with the Roberts brothers to get a glimpse of the newest, hottest Star Citizen software. This was and is the quality journalism in the gaming media offering its readers grounded and critical analysis of what is going on. Although as someone who teaches social science methodology including qualitative interview techniques I have to admit there might be a minor risk about losing the ability to critically reflect the positions of your informants
http://www.gamestar.de/artikel/star-citizen-chris-roberts-greift-nach-den-sternen,3056240,seite3.html (http://www.gamestar.de/artikel/star-citizen-chris-roberts-greift-nach-den-sternen,3056240,seite3.html))
RSI thread about that article: https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/124159/timeline-what-chris-roberts-said-to-me-for-my-gamestar-article/p1
Post by: dsmart on February 26, 2018, 03:16:36 PM
http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=118.msg7693#msg7693
Post by: jwh1701 on February 27, 2018, 08:32:37 AM
FYI. The guy on the left is Andre Peschke who did the podcast I wrote about a few days ago
http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=118.msg7693#msg7693
I'm shocked he is allowed in the same country as CR. I wonder if CIG is even aware of your
interview considering how CIG eats it own if they show the slightest questioning of the agenda.
Post by: StanTheMan on February 27, 2018, 10:22:17 AM
FYI. The guy on the left is Andre Peschke who did the podcast I wrote about a few days ago
http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=118.msg7693#msg7693
Definitely something fishy about him.
Post by: dsmart on March 14, 2018, 06:59:28 PM
http://guardfrequency.com/203
Post by: dsmart on March 15, 2018, 04:50:33 AM
(http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/378394-sec-charges-theranos-ceo-with-massive-fraud)
You could quite literally replace Elizabeth Holmes with Chris Roberts, Theranos with CIG/RSI, and the drug with Star Citizen - and it would still work.
Post by: jwh1701 on March 15, 2018, 08:10:57 AM
SEC charges Theranos CEO with 'massive fraud'
(http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/378394-sec-charges-theranos-ceo-with-massive-fraud)
You could quite literally replace Elizabeth Holmes with Chris Roberts, Theranos with CIG/RSI, and the drug with Star Citizen - and it would still work.
You sure could, but what a ridiculous is the smack on the wrist.
The agency said Theranos and Holmes have agreed to settle the fraud charges. Holmes agreed to pay a $500,000 penalty and relinquish control of the company. She will be barred from serving as an officer or director of any public company for 10 years.
Post by: dsmart on March 15, 2018, 09:21:24 AM
Post by: jwh1701 on March 15, 2018, 11:46:00 AM
Yeah but that's on the SEC side. The on-going investigate lawsuits, as well as those that are sure to come now, will cost them big time.
Ah OK I was thinking the adage that crime pays would surely fit here. After reading this I was ready to start my own kickstarter for a new mmo space sim since it was such a low fine for scamming 700mill.
Post by: dsmart on March 16, 2018, 02:48:47 PM
Ho Lee Cow! Please read. :emote-lol:
Quote
"I asked Tony Zurovec, persistent universe game director for Star Citizen, about what level of protection players would receive. “UEE space will be routinely patrolled by security forces,” he says, “and just as they would respond to violence they'll react to the illegal extraction of resources from another player's property. However, security forces are limited, so unless a player is able to communicate such an infringement upon their rights to the authorities the odds of the transgressor being caught are remote."
Post by: Flashwit on March 17, 2018, 03:27:32 PM
Post by: jwh1701 on March 17, 2018, 09:13:27 PM
What Star Citizen can learn from the Second Life players who break into houses and have sex (https://www.pcgamesn.com/star-citizen/star-citizen-land-claim-virtual-property-law)
Ho Lee Cow! Please read. :emote-lol:
That is really crazy I have never researched it as I'm not big games like that. The article is great as it really exposes the fallacy of buying jpegs, land beacons before the dev as even produced a functioning game.
Post by: jwh1701 on March 21, 2018, 07:37:32 AM
You playing 2k during 3.0, then to 1080p for 3.1 then claim the fps is awesome.
Least he was honest about that, but for test to validate performance improvements he should have left
it at 2k.
"3.1 Hype!!!! I can't believe i actually saw 40+ FPS in game... and guys i am not so sure the resolution matters, but it's worth a try. I usually game at 2K so i wanted to try 1920 x 1080P"
Post by: N0mad on March 21, 2018, 07:49:29 AM
OK, so other than some bug fixes, character customisation and some new ships what content have they actually added for gameplay? (and I don't count character creation as gameplay for a space sim)
Post by: jwh1701 on March 21, 2018, 08:03:30 AM
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/85zbct/star_citizen_31_ptu_wave_one_is_here_performance/
Post by: jwh1701 on March 21, 2018, 08:07:19 AM
Reddit has a thread on the video, not one person has picked up on the resolution change.
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/85zbct/star_citizen_31_ptu_wave_one_is_here_performance/
I think you being little harsh I counted polish 4 times in those patch notes so you know its going to be good. :cat2: jk
Post by: David-2 on March 21, 2018, 08:07:52 AM
That's it? All that terrific performance work by hard working devs in this build but they get such a perfunctory callout? Compare that to the love the audio guys got by fixing some bugs all over the place, not to mention the guys working on the store who got multiple mentions for bug fixing some display issues ...
Post by: N0mad on March 21, 2018, 10:57:13 AM
So the physics are still a bit broken then :emot-laugh:
Post by: jwh1701 on March 21, 2018, 12:58:50 PM
So the physics are still a bit broken then :emot-laugh:
LOL not to mention the stuttering which means he has some severe render issues for video as we know that the performance has been improved.
Post by: dsmart on March 21, 2018, 02:56:35 PM
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/4/thread/star-citizen-alpha-3-1-0-initial-ptu-733018-patch-
OK, so other than some bug fixes, character customisation and some new ships what content have they actually added for gameplay? (and I don't count character creation as gameplay for a space sim)
:emot-lol: Oh? You though they were putting in important things like features? Dude, are you following me on Twitter? :)
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/975778396679569409
Quote
Played Star Citizen 3.1.0 this past weekend.
My opinion remains the same.
It's FUBAR.
Patch notes show LOTS of check boxes in pre-existing issues with 0 material additions in terms of the features.
Performance & crashes are no better than 3.0.
https://starcitizentracker.github.io/
Post by: Kyrt on March 22, 2018, 01:00:42 AM
Reddit has a thread on the video, not one person has picked up on the resolution change.
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/85zbct/star_citizen_31_ptu_wave_one_is_here_performance/
Does it matter? If the optimisations they've added work, that's a good thing.
And quite frankly, I'd expect some degree of improvement.
But that video still seems a little jerky to me, and they pushed a lot back to 3.2 in order to put in bug fixes and optimizations that really should have been in 3.0.
However..it is still too early to determine if there is any degree of FPS improvement. I can't help but recall all the tricks used by streamers in 3.0 to fudge their numbers.
Post by: dsmart on March 22, 2018, 03:32:41 AM
Does it matter? If the optimisations they've added work, that's a good thing.
And quite frankly, I'd expect some degree of improvement.
But that video still seems a little jerky to me, and they pushed a lot back to 3.2 in order to put in bug fixes and optimizations that really should have been in 3.0.
However..it is still too early to determine if there is any degree of FPS improvement. I can't help but recall all the tricks used by streamers in 3.0 to fudge their numbers.
I am a software developer. I don't see how going from 2K to 1080p amounts to "optimizations they've added work". That's not actually how that works. If whatever they did benefited performance, then those gains would be seen across all resolutions.
I have played it, there is NOTHING in it that amounts to optimizations being a big change. So just like 3.0 where a bunch of these guys were basically LYING about their experiences, the same thing is going to happen with 3.1.
Also, have you seen the latest posts in that thread?
Post by: jwh1701 on March 22, 2018, 07:19:00 AM
Just like the guy in the video he knew what his baseline fps were with 2k and then he decided to change to 1080p?
One change invalidates all tests, he needs to roll back the update, find his fps at 1080p then update and provided the new fps.
Post by: jwh1701 on March 22, 2018, 07:58:57 AM
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/4/thread/3-1-ptu-constant-crashes
Post by: Kyrt on March 22, 2018, 12:51:26 PM
I am a software developer. I don't see how going from 2K to 1080p amounts to "optimizations they've added work".
Because 40fps at 1080p is still better than 6fps at any resolution. I can easily see optimizations getting rid of one cap but still leaving other issues. If CIGs optimizations were enough to...say...get rid of limitations introduced because of the poor network coding (or at least mitigate it), that could still leave performance issues due to graphical resolution which may still indicate a performance cap.
A lot of people were complaining about poor performance irrespective of resolution. If resolution is now a factor, that....to me...indicates an improvement in performance.
The most that can be said is that the performances can't be compared on a like to like basis. That's important...but ultimately, the only measure of import is whether the game plays well for most players. In 3.0...it didn't. I think we can expect some degree of improvement in 3.1but it is too early to judge how much of an improvement there is. As I said, for all that he claimed performance had improved, the video still appeared jerky in places...to me anyway.
Post by: jwh1701 on March 22, 2018, 01:19:27 PM
Because 40fps at 1080p is still better than 6fps at any resolution. I can easily see optimizations getting rid of one cap but still leaving other issues. If CIGs optimizations were enough to...say...get rid of limitations introduced because of the poor network coding (or at least mitigate it), that could still leave performance issues due to graphical resolution which may still indicate a performance cap.
A lot of people were complaining about poor performance irrespective of resolution. If resolution is now a factor, that....to me...indicates an improvement in performance.
The most that can be said is that the performances can't be compared on a like to like basis. That's important...but ultimately, the only measure of import is whether the game plays well for most players. In 3.0...it didn't. I think we can expect some degree of improvement in 3.1but it is too early to judge how much of an improvement there is. As I said, for all that he claimed performance had improved, the video still appeared jerky in places...to me anyway.
I'm very much interested to see if they can deliver any performance. But for a valid test you cannot alter anything in your test bed and then claim a performance increase. My contention is that he new his baseline fps with 2k, and for some reason he changes it after the update and then claims fps improvements makes everything he said null and void.
The real question is what is he calling 2k maybe (1440p)?
Post by: Beexoffel on March 22, 2018, 01:27:22 PM
Post by: dsmart on March 22, 2018, 04:44:51 PM
Because 40fps at 1080p is still better than 6fps at any resolution.
Yeah, that's not how that works.
Also, his claims were performance improvements at 1080p, while comparing them to 2K. That's a meaningless test as he would have had to test at 2K in order to make that sort of comparison worthy of note.
Post by: dsmart on March 22, 2018, 04:46:41 PM
I'm very much interested to see if they can deliver any performance. But for a valid test you cannot alter anything in your test bed and then claim a performance increase. My contention is that he new his baseline fps with 2k, and for some reason he changes it after the update and then claims fps improvements makes everything he said null and void.
The real question is what is he calling 2k maybe (1440p)?
Precisely. They are using it to - once again - make baseless and unfounded claims. It's what they do. Confidence is shaky and at an all time high.
Meanwhile, as if we were expecting any less, in 8 days, 3.1 would have missed the Q1/18 deadline. And most of the shit they promised, aren't done.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/roadmap/board/1-Star-Citizen
Post by: Kyrt on March 22, 2018, 04:53:32 PM
I'm very much interested to see if they can deliver any performance. But for a valid test you cannot alter anything in your test bed and then claim a performance increase. My contention is that he new his baseline fps with 2k, and for some reason he changes it after the update and then claims fps improvements makes everything he said null and void.
The real question is what is he calling 2k maybe (1440p)?
I disagree.
The game was unplayable for many before and the resolution had minimal impact.
If the game is optimised to the extent that changing resolution makes it playable then that is an improvement.
Yes...you can't do a like for like comparison. But if whatever optimizations CIG has added are seen as making the game generally playable, then a like for like isn't necessary.
This isn't a scientific double blind test. An exact comparison isn't necessary, mandatory or even particularly useful.
All I need to know is....is the game "playable"? Yes....1080p is skewing the result in CIGs favour, but since the existing situation is that the game is often unplayable no matter what the resolution is, having the game be playable at 1080p is still an improvement.
Whether there is actually an improvement is unknown right now. But as I said, I believe we can expect some degree of improvement in performance. It could hardly get worse ;)
But the point I am trying to make is simple...
Would you consider 40FPS at 1080 an improvement over 6FPS at 2k?
Post by: jwh1701 on March 22, 2018, 06:13:52 PM
I would agree but my question why is it better, since variables changed
then we do not have sufficient data. I did not see anything in cig documentation
concerning 1080p.
Would 1080p yield better fps pre-patch and do we have the data?
Since we do not have his fps before the patch then I cannot determine if it was the patch
or resolution change.
Post by: dsmart on March 22, 2018, 08:05:08 PM
I disagree.
The game was unplayable for many before and the resolution had minimal impact.
If the game is optimised to the extent that changing resolution makes it playable then that is an improvement.
Yes...you can't do a like for like comparison. But if whatever optimizations CIG has added are seen as making the game generally playable, then a like for like isn't necessary.
This isn't a scientific double blind test. An exact comparison isn't necessary, mandatory or even particularly useful.
All I need to know is....is the game "playable"? Yes....1080p is skewing the result in CIGs favour, but since the existing situation is that the game is often unplayable no matter what the resolution is, having the game be playable at 1080p is still an improvement.
Whether there is actually an improvement is unknown right now. But as I said, I believe we can expect some degree of improvement in performance. It could hardly get worse ;)
But the point I am trying to make is simple...
Would you consider 40FPS at 1080 an improvement over 6FPS at 2k?
1) 2K = 2048 x 1080, 2048x1152, 2014x1440
2) 1080p = 1920x 1080
#1 pushes a LOT more pixels than #1.
It is game in which most of its bottleneck is CPU - not GPU - bound. At least the last time I checked.
The performance in 3.0 remains abysmal. At any resolution. Of course if you play at LOWER resolution, you will get better performance. ergo. drop from 2K to 1080p. That's the way it is with ALL games.
3.1 comes out.
A guy claiming to get bad performance in 3.0 when running at 2K, says he's getting better performance in 3.1 when running at 1080p. He never made ANY statements related to his 3.0 performance at 1080p.
Please explain to me - in simple terms - how exactly you came to the conclusion that his claims are related to "improvements" in 3.1 performance, as opposed to him just dropping down his resolution.
As a graphics programmer - even if I never played 3.0 or 3.1, none of that would make any sense.
The ONLY way to determine if in fact 3.1 has any performance improvements, is to run the game at the same resolution as 3.0, with the same config settings, in the same server environment (heavy vs empty), and in the same location (planet, space etc).
Post by: dsmart on March 22, 2018, 08:08:35 PM
Would you consider 40FPS at 1080 an improvement over 6FPS at 2k?
I would agree but my question why is it better, since variables changed
then we do not have sufficient data. I did not see anything in cig documentation
concerning 1080p.
Would 1080p yield better fps pre-patch and do we have the data?
Since we do not have his fps before the patch then I cannot determine if it was the patch
or resolution change.
It won't. Because it's nonsense.
Post by: Kyrt on March 23, 2018, 12:39:44 AM
Would you consider 40FPS at 1080 an improvement over 6FPS at 2k?
I would agree but my question why is it better, since variables changed
then we do not have sufficient data. I did not see anything in cig documentation
concerning 1080p.
Would 1080p yield better fps pre-patch and do we have the data?
Since we do not have his fps before the patch then I cannot determine if it was the patch
or resolution change.
Before the patch, people were stating that changing resolution up or down made little or no difference.
If changing resolution in 3.1 works, that indicates an improvement of sorts.
We don't know if this test was manipulated oi anyway (as it was in 3.0 with their hacks and running on empty servers), nor what actual performance will be like on live, nor what impact running with other players nearby will have or several other caveats.
But 40 fps, even at 1080p, is better than 6fps at whatever resolution.
The question I have is whether he manipulated the tests through means such as hacking, or running on empty servers, or editing. The question I have is are his results replicated throughout the player base. The question I have is how multiple players and ships affect fps rate.
Because given what players were complaining about wrt 3.0, at least the ones I saw, the ability to get semi decent FPS at least some of the time will be a massive improvement over 3.0, even if resolution has to be sacrificed.
Were I to be involved in narrowing down where and why and how such an improvement took place, then the change in resolution would indeed be problematic.
As a player, that the bottleneck has moved from where it was in 3.0 where 6or 7fps wasn't uncommon, and that 40fps is achievable will be all that I care about.
In short....resolution wasn't a major factor in the problems affecting 3.0. To a large degree, it was the CPU overhead caused by trying to process the huge amount of data coming in over the network, which hammered the system even before resolution became an issue. If we are now at the stage where we are pointing out resolution changes, that tells me that the previous bottleneck...the network...is no longer hammering the CPU and it is dealing with received information well enough that the bottleneck has moved to the point resolution is now an issue.
We don't really have enough information from this one test to determine if performance really has changed or improved. But we cannot discount the "test" simply because of resolution changes for the simple reason, resolution wasn't an important factor in 3.0 and if it is now, in 3.1....that IS an improvement.
Post by: Kyrt on March 23, 2018, 01:05:59 AM
#2 pushes a LOT more pixels than #1.
Other way around, or am I missing something?
Quote
It is game in which most of its bottleneck is CPU - not GPU - bound. At least the last time I checked.
It is a game where much of the problem with performance was caused by the CPU trying to deal with a deluge on network trafgic, most of which was irrelevant.
If the performance is now at a point where the GPU affects performance in a meaningful manner, that tells me the bottleneck has moved. It indicates that whatever kludge they put into place to filter the network traffic is having SOME impact to the point that the CPU can deal with the traffic it is receiving.
If that is the case, that would be an improvement over 3.0.
Quote
he performance in 3.0 remains abysmal. At any resolution. Of course if you play at LOWER resolution, you will get better performance. ergo. drop from 2K to 1080p. That's the way it is with ALL games.
Most games. One of the complaints 3.0 had was that changing resolution had little or no impact and the rationale given was that the main bottleneck was in the network. That each client was getting hammered with too much information. That the CPU became the bottleneck in performance because the GPU rarely got a look in
If 3.1 really has changed things to the point changing resolution affects performance, that's an improvement over 3.0 where all too often it did not.
Quote
A guy claiming to get bad performance in 3.0 when running at 2K, says he's getting better performance in 3.1 when running at 1080p. He never made ANY statements related to his 3.0 performance at 1080p.
And given how Citizens manipulated the results for 3.0, if a simple resolution change change affected performance we would have seen them push that and get CIG to optimise the graphic routines. They wouldn't have needed to hack their clients into offline mode or seek empty servers.
Resolution changes apparently had little impact on performance in 3.0. If it does now, there is a new bottleneck.
Quote
As a graphics programmer - even if I never played 3.0 or 3.1, none of that would make any sense.
That can be true only if you assume only one bottleneck in the game. Was the resolution a major determining factor in performance during 3.0? No. It wasn't. If it is now....and its too early to tell...then the bottleneck in 3.0 has gone and there is a different bottleneck now.
Yes...all else being equal, resolution would be important.
But it isn't equal and we don't need information about resolution to determine if the game can simply deliver acceptable performance at some resolution.
Quote
The ONLY way to determine if in fact 3.1 has any performance improvements, is to run the game at the same resolution as 3.0, with the same config settings, in the same server environment (heavy vs empty), and in the same location (planet, space etc).
Or we could just wait and see if the same complaints and symptoms crop up in 3.1.
To keep it short...
In your opinion, did changing resolution have a major impact on the performance issues noted in 3.0? Was lowering the resolution seen as a possible and viable solution?
Post by: SpaceTroll on March 23, 2018, 01:11:13 AM
Fun starts at 3:59:00
:afro:
Post by: Noztra on March 23, 2018, 05:22:14 AM
And impressive that he thinks SC will be able to implement ray tracing into SC.
Post by: dsmart on March 23, 2018, 05:31:05 AM
We don't really have enough information from this one test to determine if performance really has changed or improved.
That's why it's particularly hilarious to me that a guy is claiming performance at 1080p is better in 3.1 than in 3.0. All he did was lower his resolution. Doing that in ANY game will yield better performance results.
Quote
But we cannot discount the "test" simply because of resolution changes for the simple reason, resolution wasn't an important factor in 3.0 and if it is now, in 3.1....that IS an improvement.
Yes we can discount it because it's not only is it not based on empirical evidence, but also it's just nonsense.
Resolution is ALWAYS a performance issue in games; especially in CryEngine games which are notorious for pushing systems to their limits. I have no idea where your statement about 3.0 not being an important factor comes from. The performance in 3.0 is abysmal at ANY resolution. If that were not the case, there would be no complaints about it because people would just play at the standard 1080p and not bitch about it. In fact, this person dropping down from 2K to 1080p, pretty much confirms it, regardless of the veracity of his claims. And in his case, it's basically a false positive.
As I said, I've played it. I always play games at 1080p and I haven't noticed ANY performance improvements. Plus the crashes and hangs are worse in 3.1.
I remember when I was writing various articles for MONTHS on end about how performance in 3.0 was completely catastrophic. Those guys on Reddit were saying all kinds of things, attacking me etc. Then 3.0 dropped in Dec 2017. Silence. Then rage. Then acceptance. It's all Deja Vu.
Post by: dsmart on March 23, 2018, 05:38:09 AM
Other way around, or am I missing something?
It is a game where much of the problem with performance was caused by the CPU trying to deal with a deluge on network trafgic, most of which was irrelevant.
That's not true. That's just been an excuse harped by CIG and carried by Shitizens for the past TWO YEARS.
The game's performance is affected in many areas, and networking is only a part of that. And unless we see the game profiled in one of their dev shows, there is NO empirical evidence to support the theory that networking is primarily the main bottleneck. Things like bind culling and serialized variables are only going to go so far. And even if/when they implement either, the results will show precisely that. And whatever improvements they yield, would hardly be much of an impact. They know this. And that's why they've been putting it off for years now. Aside from the fact that, as I've written in my articles, it has the potential to break everything - completely.
Quote
If the performance is now at a point where the GPU affects performance in a meaningful manner, that tells me the bottleneck has moved. It indicates that whatever kludge they put into place to filter the network traffic is having SOME impact to the point that the CPU can deal with the traffic it is receiving.
If that is the case, that would be an improvement over 3.0.
None of that has anything to do with the on-going discussion about performance in 3.0 v 3.1.
Whatever networking improvements they made - if any - would affect ALL resolutions. So the guy won't have had to drop down to 2K to play it because network improvements aren't specific to resolutions.
Post by: dsmart on March 23, 2018, 05:44:10 AM
I like how Boredgamer think that the video with Andy Serkins that shows off ray tracing are somehow gonna be how it will look in SC. He even mention that its not even CY but UE, but that doesn't matter. :P
And impressive that he thinks SC will be able to implement ray tracing into SC.
He's a moron.
Even the devs who created the tech know that ray tracing is YEARS away. I have a thread on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/thedereksmart/posts/10156248176332679) right now discussing this. And besides Microsoft's own statements (https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/directx/2018/03/19/announcing-microsoft-directx-raytracing/), there are leading graphics programmers who are friends (e.g. Andre LaMothe who has written so many gamedev books, papers etc I lost count) of mine, talking about precisely that.
Post by: Noztra on March 23, 2018, 06:41:14 AM
Post by: Kyrt on March 23, 2018, 06:45:12 AM
That's not true. That's just been an excuse harped by CIG and carried by Shitizens for the past TWO YEARS.
Maybe it isn't true.
Quote
The game's performance is affected in many areas, and networking is only a part of that.
Ah....so it IS true.
I'm quite prepared to accept that there is more wronf with the engine than just the netcode. I'm even prepared to accept that the serialized variable culling they mentioned is little mire than a band aid fix, and one that quite possibly will have side effects, and very likely will end up being semi permanent despite being portrayed as a temporary measure.
But ultimately, the only question of importance that I....as a gamer...am going to be interested in is does the game have acceptable levels of performance?
It is, to a large degree, irrelevant what performance was like in 3.0 or what CIG fixed or didn't fix.
If they improved the netcode....that is an improvement even if the game performance still suffers. If the game performance still suffers, if it is just as bad for just as many players as 3.0, then they failed. But if there is a noticeable improvement in performance then how such an improvement is achieved may be of dome interest to technophiles like you or I....but the typical gamer isn't going to care.
And ultimately, unless you are interested in forensic analysis of the games performance, the actual resolution is unimportant and a bit nitpicky.
Has the games performance improved?
Quote
And unless we see the game profiled in one of their dev shows, there is NO empirical evidence to support the theory that networking is primarily the main bottleneck.
Quite bluntly...it doesn't have to be. It does appear to be a bottleneck, it does appear to have a negative impact on performance and whether you blame that on overutilisation of the network, lack of suitable filtering on the server side, the client side CPU getting hammered by network traffic or wherever, fixing that issue...even via a temporary bandaid...is still an improvement.
How much of an improvement is debatable but arguing that we can ignore the issue because it may not be the primary cause of performance issues isn't exactly helpful either.
Quote
Whatever networking improvements they made - if any - would affect ALL resolutions. So the guy won't have had to drop down to 2K to play it because network improvements aren't specific to resolutions.
Again, you appear to be arguing that the game has just one bottleneck affecting performance.
I don't believe that, nor do I think you do. Fixing the networking bottleneck could easily result in an improvement in performance by freeing up clientside CPU cycles, an improvement which can then be undone by maintaining an unrealistic resolution impacting the GPU which in turn can be fixed by reducing said resolution. Said improved performance will then continue until yet another bottleneck is hit...such as having several ships or players onscreen at one time.
None of this means the netcode hasn't been improved or that overall performance hasn't improved. Nor does it mean it will.
Post by: dsmart on March 23, 2018, 07:23:47 AM
Ah....so it IS true.
It's not unique to Star Citizen. All multiplayer games have performance issues with networking if not done correctly. Primary to that is when you have clients being sent data they shouldn't even be getting. And contrary to popular belief, that has more to do with clients have to process/update more 3D entities, than it does the size of the network packets. The latter is mitigated (somewhat) due to the fact that we're all on broadband now. It was a LOT worse in the old days.
Post by: dsmart on March 23, 2018, 07:27:54 AM
Quite bluntly...it doesn't have to be. It does appear to be a bottleneck, it does appear to have a negative impact on performance and whether you blame that on overutilisation of the network, lack of suitable filtering on the server side, the client side CPU getting hammered by network traffic or wherever, fixing that issue...even via a temporary bandaid...is still an improvement.
It's all largely irrelevant. What tweaks they made to the networking, is NOT resolution specific. So if it improves performance at 1080p, then it should do the same at 2K. But the performance between the two resolutions will NEVER be the same because it's more of a graphics issue, than it is a networking issue which determines that.
Quote
Again, you appear to be arguing that the game has just one bottleneck affecting performance.
No I am not. In my previous post you just quoted me specifically saying that it's NOT one thing affecting performance.
Quote
I don't believe that, nor do I think you do. Fixing the networking bottleneck could easily result in an improvement in performance by freeing up clientside CPU cycles, an improvement which can then be undone by maintaining an unrealistic resolution impacting the GPU which in turn can be fixed by reducing said resolution. Said improved performance will then continue until yet another bottleneck is hit...such as having several ships or players onscreen at one time.
None of this means the netcode hasn't been improved or that overall performance hasn't improved. Nor does it mean it will.
Irrelevant. Again - we're arguing about performance differences between two DIFFERENT resolutions. Nothing else.
Post by: Kyrt on March 23, 2018, 07:53:41 AM
It's all largely irrelevant. What tweaks they made to the networking, is NOT resolution specific. So if it improves performance at 1080p, then it should do the same at 2K. But the performance between the two resolutions will NEVER be the same because it's more of a graphics issue, than it is a networking issue which determines that.
Take the situation where performance is bottlenecked by netcode, because...as an example...the CPU is so busy handling network traffuc that it cannot do anything else reliably.
Remove that bottleneck. Now the CPU can do its job because the netcode that took up all its attention before is much more manageable.
Now performance is great because the bottleneck that was the network is removed!!!
Except the networking was not the only bottleneck. It turns out there were two bottlenecks...the netcode and the GPU. Changing the resolution wouldn't affect any performance issue caused by the netcode. Now that the netcode bottleneck is (potentially) removed, the bottleneck caused by the GPU becomes more prevalent and so reducing the resolution does indeed cause a performance boost.
It doesn't matter what tweaks they made to the netcode because ultimately, the question is has performance improved. It only matters yes or no...has the netcode bottleneck issue been, at least, mitigated?
Yes...that wouldn't be affected by resolution. But any improvement to the netcode would mean other bottlenecks affecting performance would become more prevalent and those additional bottlenecks may very well. e affected by resolution.
Quote
No I am not. In my previous post you just quoted me specifically saying that it's NOT one thing affecting performance.
You appear to be stating that there can be no meaningful network code improvements because resolution changes would essentially ignore such issues. In reality, resolution changes could affect performance easily if improvements in the netcode resulted in other bottlenecks becoming more prominent.
Quote
Irrelevant. Again - we're arguing about performance differences between two DIFFERENT resolutions. Nothing else.
All else being equal, reducing resolution will improve performance. But that in and of itself does not imply there were and are no improvements to the netcode or any other aspect of the game. That changing resolution may now result in performance increases when before it had little, if any, impact suggests that a bottleneck somewhere has indeed been mitigated.
Post by: jwh1701 on March 23, 2018, 09:13:11 AM
Post by: remedysolace on March 23, 2018, 10:00:43 AM
Post by: jwh1701 on March 23, 2018, 11:55:47 AM
Reclaimer Full Ship Walk through
Pretty cool seeing the scope and the size of it. Miss playing ED a little after watching, but I just got tired of the amount of time I spent at a loading screent.
Post by: Bubba on March 23, 2018, 01:53:20 PM
So, in the end, they could release a video shot on a mid-range PC at 40 fps, and it wouldn't change anything. They're still miles from delivery and they always will be. And the job of what's left of the avocados is to drum up support and excitement from the rest. Since they decided to release updates every three months, whether it's useful or not, they need to tout something.
And isn't 2k=1920x1080, just as 4k=3840x2160 and QHD is 2560x1440?
Post by: jwh1701 on March 23, 2018, 02:11:07 PM
Look, you guys sound like the obverse of those dupes talking about what roles they're gonna play in this cig-verse that will never exist. Here's the point: Yes, frame rates have sucked, and yes, they have sucked for many reasons. No, nobody with any experience in the matter believes that one thing is the cause of it. Yes, most of us recognize that implementing their ever-growing feature set is only going to make things much worse. Yes, it is stupid to think that a few band-aids are gonna fix a problem that good games design around.
So, in the end, they could release a video shot on a mid-range PC at 40 fps, and it wouldn't change anything. They're still miles from delivery and they always will be. And the job of what's left of the avocados is to drum up support and excitement from the rest. Since they decided to release updates every three months, whether it's useful or not, they need to tout something.
And isn't 2k=1920x1080, just as 4k=3840x2160 and QHD is 2560x1440?
I certainly agree with you, reason I pondered earlier what he was calling 2k? I was thinking he thought 1440p or something all those lines was 2k. He had to of dropped from some resolution other than what some would call 2k or 1080p since he clearly referenced it.
Post by: dsmart on March 23, 2018, 02:40:44 PM
Look, you guys sound like the obverse of those dupes talking about what roles they're gonna play in this cig-verse that will never exist. Here's the point: Yes, frame rates have sucked, and yes, they have sucked for many reasons. No, nobody with any experience in the matter believes that one thing is the cause of it. Yes, most of us recognize that implementing their ever-growing feature set is only going to make things much worse. Yes, it is stupid to think that a few band-aids are gonna fix a problem that good games design around.
So, in the end, they could release a video shot on a mid-range PC at 40 fps, and it wouldn't change anything. They're still miles from delivery and they always will be. And the job of what's left of the avocados is to drum up support and excitement from the rest. Since they decided to release updates every three months, whether it's useful or not, they need to tout something.
:emot-bravo:
Post by: dsmart on March 23, 2018, 02:42:28 PM
I certainly agree with you, reason I pondered earlier what he was calling 2k? I was thinking he thought 1440p or something all those lines was 2k. He had to of dropped from some resolution other than what some would call 2k or 1080p since he clearly referenced it.
Precisely. Since I didn't know what he was referring to as 2K, that's why I provided some 2K res examples in my post in the previous page. The fact that he also referenced 1080p, is what made it clear that he was previously at a higher resolution than 1080p.
Post by: jwh1701 on March 24, 2018, 07:58:48 AM
https://streamable.com/ro3q2
Post by: jwh1701 on March 24, 2018, 08:34:00 AM
(https://s26.postimg.org/ykweqsdat/reddit_3.1_performnce_hype_is_real_Ervis_Vlora_youtube.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ykweqsdat/)
Post by: dsmart on March 24, 2018, 09:06:28 AM
I took a screen shot of the performance video that day as I was waiting for him to correct the mistake. I will keep checking back in the video to see if he does. For all we know he may think 2k is 3840x2160, there is also a few threads today saying the reclaimer has substandard textures to other ships which is interesting. I have wondered if they will find performance by reducing the polygons and textures.
(https://s26.postimg.org/ykweqsdat/reddit_3.1_performnce_hype_is_real_Ervis_Vlora_youtube.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ykweqsdat/)
That he says he doesn't think the resolution matters, is clear indication that he knows nothing. At all.
Post by: dsmart on March 26, 2018, 12:21:02 PM
Don't FF to 5:42 or you'll ruin the surprise :)
Post by: N0mad on March 26, 2018, 12:53:26 PM
Oh you're gonna love this :emot-lol:
I loved the bit where your name first got mentioned - you should have that as your ring tone.
Post by: Motto on March 26, 2018, 01:10:54 PM
Post by: dsmart on March 26, 2018, 06:42:02 PM
That's a very long introduction to part 3 where they will confirm that "Derek Smart was right".
:emote-lol:
He did admit it in PT2 though; but he didn't go all the way in. :)
Post by: dsmart on March 26, 2018, 06:42:46 PM
I loved the bit where your name first got mentioned - you should have that as your ring tone.
:emot-lol: yeah, I was laughing at that part.
Post by: jwh1701 on April 01, 2018, 11:54:16 AM
Post by: jwh1701 on April 01, 2018, 09:36:40 PM
Post by: dsmart on April 02, 2018, 06:47:29 AM
Post by: krylite on April 05, 2018, 02:21:26 PM
Star Citizen - No End in Sight (Part 3)
Darn it, if that video is true about StarCitizen going to be released at the end of this year, then its another long wait for the collapse. When they release their broken mvp which won't last longer than ME:A and scamper away from the international clawbacks. Then maybe, finally in late 2019, the episode of "American Greed" showcasing this biggest backer ponzi ever will air on CNBC.
Post by: dsmart on April 05, 2018, 04:26:21 PM
Darn it, if that video is true about StarCitizen going to be released at the end of this year, then its another long wait for the collapse. When they release their broken mvp which won't last longer than ME:A and scamper away from the international clawbacks. Then maybe, finally in late 2019, the episode of "American Greed" showcasing this biggest backer ponzi ever will air on CNBC.
What does your heart tell you? And does 3.1 give you any indication that this game is ever getting completed, let alone end of this year?
Post by: krylite on April 07, 2018, 06:46:21 PM
What does your heart tell you? And does 3.1 give you any indication that this game is ever getting completed, let alone end of this year?
I feel like the game will never be completed with all the promises and feature creep they made, but I don't know when the collapse of CIG is coming which I wished would be sooner. I'm ok with them releasing something they call "finished game" by the end of the year whatever garbage state is is, so the fallout and clawbacks can start. Of course I'd rather see a big wrecking implosion with fireworks with the incrimination of CR and crew as publicly revealed ponzi masterminds, rather than a quiet getaway in the night.
Post by: dsmart on April 09, 2018, 05:26:01 AM
I feel like the game will never be completed with all the promises and feature creep they made, but I don't know when the collapse of CIG is coming which I wished would be sooner. I'm ok with them releasing something they call "finished game" by the end of the year whatever garbage state is is, so the fallout and clawbacks can start. Of course I'd rather see a big wrecking implosion with fireworks with the incrimination of CR and crew as publicly revealed ponzi masterminds, rather than a quiet getaway in the night.
It will never be "finished". That's why Chris, who has raised all this money to deliver two finished games, started using the Early Access moniker last year. Whatever they have when they scale down and/or collapse, is what backers will be left with. For as long as CIG is around to keep paying the AWS cloud server bills.
Post by: dsmart on May 01, 2018, 03:40:10 PM
Streamers are flogging crypto Ponzi schemes, and it seems that Twitch is powerless to stop them... (https://www.pcpowerplay.com.au/feature/the-euphoria-factor,489980)
Post by: Star Chip on May 03, 2018, 03:59:07 PM
Quote
Built a pc for this game in 2014. Looks like ill need to build 2 more by the time this game launches
Post by: krylite on May 08, 2018, 05:35:07 PM
Seems you can't talk about scams these days, without Star Citizen popping up.
Streamers are flogging crypto Ponzi schemes, and it seems that Twitch is powerless to stop them... (https://www.pcpowerplay.com.au/feature/the-euphoria-factor,489980)
The article point of crypto ponzis reminds me of "Sunk Cost Galaxy" guy's latest video recounting the history of the 19th & early 20th century oil ponzis and con schemes on that ol' world newspaper print. What's even worse about SC & CIG is that the whales will be getting only sunk costs for their "investments". CIG should be owing the backers shares by now (or better yet all refunds) instead of planning to issue and sell them. But then again, cig-arrets having burnt through most of the 180 million already leaves not much to "share".
Post by: nightfire on May 15, 2018, 01:23:11 AM
Somehow there's one game they didn't care to mention… :grin:
Post by: dsmart on May 15, 2018, 04:26:04 AM
Somehow there's one game they didn't care to mention… :grin:
Well it's not new. Plus nobody is going to promote a scam anymore.
Post by: Motto on May 15, 2018, 04:47:54 AM
Just kiddin' :wink:
Post by: dsmart on May 15, 2018, 06:54:50 AM
I think he meant LoD :laugh:
Just kiddin' :wink:
:emot-lol:
Post by: jwh1701 on May 17, 2018, 07:09:43 AM
Multicrew: A Sea of Thieves Autopsy for a Greater Star Citizen Future
https://relay.sc/article/multicrew-a-sea-of-thieves-autopsy-for-a-greater-star-citizen-future
Is Star Citizen ‘Pay2Win’?
Very long article, but I thought it was interesting.
https://relay.sc/article/is-star-citizen-pay2win
Post by: dsmart on May 17, 2018, 08:30:58 AM
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/8k0pmy/is_star_citizen_pay2win/dz4a9q3/
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/8k0pmy/is_star_citizen_pay2win/dz4n974/?context=3
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/8k0pmy/is_star_citizen_pay2win/dz4nn1s/
Post by: Star Chip on May 17, 2018, 03:41:42 PM
Quote
Refunds aren't a consumer rightLOL I think we have passed the point of denial to full Stockholm, venture capitalist don't invest in charity for the luxury, when they cant get their money back they will make sure someone's life is ruined forever, not even Crobert can escape that. He is an outstanding idiot or a troll working for CIG.
Post by: DemonInvestor on May 19, 2018, 04:33:35 AM
LOL I think we have passed the point of denial to full Stockholm, venture capitalist don't invest in charity for the luxury, when they cant get their money back they will make sure someone's life is ruined forever, not even Crobert can escape that. He is an outstanding idiot or a troll working for CIG.
Not knowing jackshit about VC, you shouldn't talk about it.
1. There's a "academic" term for VCs who invest out of "charity" (angel investors).
2. VCs are more likely to accept failures than normals investors, as unproven business endeavours are simply more risky. - Rule of thumb 1 in 3 investments should work out and be big enough to cover the other 2 by miles.
But yes... investors might ruin someone who scammed them, or try it.
Post by: dsmart on May 19, 2018, 05:19:29 AM
Not knowing jackshit about VC, you shouldn't talk about it.
1. There's a "academic" term for VCs who invest out of "charity" (angel investors).
2. VCs are more likely to accept failures than normals investors, as unproven business endeavours are simply more risky. - Rule of thumb 1 in 3 investments should work out and be big enough to cover the other 2 by miles.
But yes... investors might ruin someone who scammed them, or try it.
Yeah, that's not what being an angel investor means. It has nothing to do with "charity".
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/angelinvestor.asp
Quote
What is an 'Angel Investor'
Angel investors invest in small startups or entrepreneurs. Often, angel investors are among an entrepreneur's family and friends. The capital angel investors provide may be a one-time investment to help the business propel or an ongoing injection of money to support and carry the company through its difficult early stages.
Also, all investors accept some form of risk. It doesn't matter if you're a VC or just a regular investor.
What Are the Differences in Venture Capital vs. Investment Banking? (https://www.fool.com/knowledge-center/differences-in-venture-capital-vs-investment-banki.aspx)
Post by: DemonInvestor on May 19, 2018, 05:14:59 PM
Yeah, that's not what being an angel investor means. It has nothing to do with "charity".Angel investor = investors not primarily interested in financial gains and more or less always in early stages. Hence the quotation marks around charity, as it's, like you rightly identified, a more encompassing title. And in the end with everything charity we could start having a philosophical debate about the existance of altruism.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/angelinvestor.asp
Venture Capital(ist) = investments into early phases (e.g. start-ups).
Yeah don't know what you want to tell us with the risk. Relative risk is the important thing. And investing in CIG was/is more risky than investing into activision.
Not even to mention that not only shareholders carry the risk of companies.
Post by: dsmart on May 20, 2018, 06:12:37 AM
Post by: StanTheMan on May 20, 2018, 04:04:16 PM
It is all about gamers spending money on JPEGS in the hope of getting a game at the end of it.
"They" use the term investor as a way of distancing themselves from the fact they (know they) have spent too much money on a game that hasn't been released.
They also imagine that the money they have spent is going to afford them an in game advantage not least because CRoberts has been telling them they will get special treatment by way of owning rare ships or benefit from rare features like LTI.
Even people indulging in the idea that their Star Citizen spending is "a hobby" are deluding themselves - particularly at this point.
You don't get people referring to pre ordering a AAA game as making an "investment" even though getting into an MMORPG early does indeed often confer some advantage.
Nor do people refer to buying extra pre order content such as Collectors edition in game items as an "investment".
Post by: DemonInvestor on May 21, 2018, 04:38:05 AM
I still disagree. If angel investors were basically looking to give money away, they would give it to charity and take the tax write off|down.
That's true, but i wasn't arguing that investors of SC were angel investors. I was arguing that the whole idea of VC investors are especially aggressive if one of their investments goes bad, isn't necessarily true. Angel investors is just an example of groups of people who have a different outset - e.g. charity, which doesn't nessecitate that you don't get a say on what mones is used on - than money.
It all depends more on the perception of said investory why something failed and if they can regain some of their investment. And in that they don't differ all too much from other investors.
@Stan
See above about angel investors.
Other than that even buying a game can count as investment. The benefit is most often fun. Economic theory shifts around a lot when talking about values and finance isn't the only field. Not even to mention the biggest investment they made is an emotional one...
Nonetheless, in kickstarters you've got this wonderful goalpost shifting between buyers, investory, patrons - always depending on what people are currently arguing for.
Post by: dsmart on May 21, 2018, 08:01:16 AM
SC funding has nothing to do with Angel Investors.
It is all about gamers spending money on JPEGS in the hope of getting a game at the end of it.
"They" use the term investor as a way of distancing themselves from the fact they (know they) have spent too much money on a game that hasn't been released.
They also imagine that the money they have spent is going to afford them an in game advantage not least because CRoberts has been telling them they will get special treatment by way of owning rare ships or benefit from rare features like LTI.
Even people indulging in the idea that their Star Citizen spending is "a hobby" are deluding themselves - particularly at this point.
You don't get people referring to pre ordering a AAA game as making an "investment" even though getting into an MMORPG early does indeed often confer some advantage.
Nor do people refer to buying extra pre order content such as Collectors edition in game items as an "investment".
Agreed. Also, those with a passing command of the English language, know what they mean by "invested" when referring to their backing/pledge. It's pretty much the same one could say "I'm invested in my education". On the other hand, a bunch of dumb asses then take that ball and run it off a cliff by referring to themselves as investors - just because they have lots of money in the project.
Backers are not investors, unless and until they have an investment agreement (like Mike Nightingale aka Bootcha) with CIG or one of its companies.
Money put into the project, can be called whatever they want (pledge, donation, charity etc), but it doesn't matter because according to the law, they're paying for a product and, unlike investors (who have to accept risk on ROI), expect a product in return.
The only investors we know of, are the original angel investors (e.g. like Bootcha), and other late stage investors who probably didn't cash out like Bootcha.
Banks who lend them money, are not investors - they are lenders who hold collateral (e.g. the NatWest and Coutts loans in the UK) in exchange for the loans.
Post by: dsmart on May 21, 2018, 08:03:38 AM
That's true, but i wasn't arguing that investors of SC were angel investors. I was arguing that the whole idea of VC investors are especially aggressive if one of their investments goes bad, isn't necessarily true. Angel investors is just an example of groups of people who have a different outset - e.g. charity, which doesn't nessecitate that you don't get a say on what mones is used on - than money.
It all depends more on the perception of said investory why something failed and if they can regain some of their investment. And in that they don't differ all too much from other investors.
I see. Well yeah, that makes more sense. Regardless, investors - regardless of type (angel, series A, B, C etc) - don't put money into something, not expecting some kind of ROI.
Post by: dsmart on May 29, 2018, 04:45:01 AM
http://massivelyop.com/2018/05/26/make-my-mmo-2018-may-26/
https://www.pcgamer.com/new-star-citizen-ship-pack-unlocks-nearly-every-vessel-in-the-game-for-dollar27000/
https://www.pcgamesn.com/star-citizen/star-citizen-pack-27000-dollars
https://www.pcinvasion.com/star-citizen-latest-hilariously-priced-legatus-pack-costs-27000/
https://www.engadget.com/2018/05/29/star-citizen-27000-ship-pack/
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/star-citizen-offering-a-27000-add-on-pack/1100-6459248/
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2018/05/28/star-citizen-introduces-27000-legatus-pack.aspx
https://www.destructoid.com/star-citizen-will-be-offering-a-27-000-dlc-bundle-for-those-who-already-spent-1-000-505022.phtml
http://cogconnected.com/2018/05/star-citizen-dlc-27000/
https://gamefragger.com/pc/star-citizens-ridiculousness-reaches-new-heights-as-the-latest-ship-pack-costs-27000-a9333
The Forbes lede was the best "Alleged Video Game" :emot-lol:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2018/05/28/alleged-video-game-star-citizen-offering-new-27000-legatus-pack-bundle/#1b424855139f
Post by: Motto on May 29, 2018, 05:16:58 AM
So Derek, one week left?
Post by: dsmart on May 29, 2018, 07:37:08 AM
In their desperate, and probably final, attempt for cash, they've made complete fools of themselves. There is no justification for this move and everybody will see it for what is is, a pure cash grab that can only mean that all the money is gone. There is no other way to look at this. Even the types like Joe Blobers know it. Anyone that doesn't, has the brain of a paramecium. To be fair, several parameciums have stated that Star Citizen is a scam...
They know. They ALL know. But of course the zealots are going to continue defending the farce because there can be no other way.
I don't care what anyone says, to me this is a move to obtain money from questionable sources without any paperwork. That's a classic money laundering move by those who would take advantage of such an enterprise to pour money into, with a promise of being able to get it out (clean) at the backend.
Quote
So Derek, one week left?
No. It's always 2+1 weeks remaining :)
Post by: dsmart on May 29, 2018, 08:15:12 AM
https://gamefragger.com/pc/star-citizens-ridiculousness-reaches-new-heights-as-the-latest-ship-pack-costs-27000-a9333
http://www.ign.com/articles/2018/05/29/star-citizen-now-has-a-27000-dlc-pack
Post by: dsmart on May 29, 2018, 08:45:54 AM
https://www.thesun.co.uk/tech/6402782/star-citizen-video-game-has-a-27000-add-on-that-gets-you-some-virtual-spaceships/
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-44290194
Post by: Motto on May 29, 2018, 09:41:51 AM
Post by: Greggy_D on May 29, 2018, 11:33:57 AM
Post by: N0mad on May 29, 2018, 11:39:04 AM
The comments in all of these articles are overwhelmingly calling SC a scam.
Yeah, it's a big difference to how things were even a few months ago. You also now have the gaming media treating SC like a joke - it feels as though people are turning against the project now.
All the zealots have retreated into their SC Reddit bunker to await The End.
Post by: dsmart on May 29, 2018, 01:15:22 PM
"Roberts Space Industries did not return our request for comment (https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/9k83m3/star-citizen-is-offering-vip-players-a-dollar27000-bundle-of-spaceships)."
Post by: dsmart on May 29, 2018, 01:16:30 PM
Well, it looks like Chris nailed it. The final nail in his own coffin that is. He's created so much negative attention to Star Citizen, there's no way he can pull off a stunt like this again.
It's cute that you think so. Wait for what comes next. This is nuthin' :cat2:
Post by: dsmart on May 29, 2018, 01:21:10 PM
"Fortune reached out to Roberts Space Industries, Star Citizen’s developer, for comment, but did not receive an immediate response. (http://fortune.com/2018/05/29/star-citizen-legatus-pack/)"
Post by: dsmart on May 29, 2018, 01:41:09 PM
Post by: Motto on May 29, 2018, 01:43:08 PM
It's cute that you think so. Wait for what comes next. This is nuthin' :cat2:
I know there is more. After all, this is CIG.
So, just hint on every one if we're in the right direction...
- CIG is almost broke. Frantically trying by downsizing, office closure etc. to fix some sort of skeleton crew to uphold the Kickstarter (as long a we are working on it, we're covered)
- By changing offices and company names etc. they are trying to create corporate entities to take on all the responsibilities and liabilities without them having a repercussion for Chris and partners
- They set up some sort of IP rights contruction were Chris sold and bought his own rights back and forth for millions in a way that all rights remain his to use again after CIG collapses
- Some heavy investor is trying to get his money back
- they defaulted on one or more loans
- one or more governments are chasing after CIG because of tax-fraude and stuff. Selling with added taxes but never actually paying them. The Australian government really likes that.
- Sandi officially divorced from Chris and to avoid having to testify against him officially registered as a UK Citizen. Just to be on the safe side, she married Erin.
Of course, the last one happened after Chris caught Sandi having a treesome with Jared and Ben and him having revenge sex with Alexis in return.
Post by: N0mad on May 29, 2018, 01:56:20 PM
I suspect they'll desperately try and maintain the fiction that everything is going fine right up to the point where Chris flies off on permanent holiday to Ecuador with the remaining cash.
I guess their biggest problem is trying to get their loans payed back fast before the Banks start asking difficult questions.
Post by: dsmart on May 29, 2018, 02:01:35 PM
The trouble with downsizing / shutting a studio (if that's what is happening) is that once that is made public, however they try and spin it, it looks like they're running out of cash. Then things start spiralling out of control and they're finished.
I suspect they'll desperately try and maintain the fiction that everything is going fine right up to the point where Chris flies off on permanent holiday to Ecuador with the remaining cash.
I guess their biggest problem is trying to get their loans payed back fast before the Banks start asking difficult questions.
Hold that thought. 2 weeks + 1
Post by: Motto on May 29, 2018, 02:11:49 PM
Post by: Motto on May 29, 2018, 02:13:09 PM
The trouble with downsizing / shutting a studio (if that's what is happening) is that once that is made public, however they try and spin it, it looks like they're running out of cash. Then things start spiralling out of control and they're finished.
I suspect they'll desperately try and maintain the fiction that everything is going fine right up to the point where Chris flies off on permanent holiday to Ecuador with the remaining cash.
I guess their biggest problem is trying to get their loans payed back fast before the Banks start asking difficult questions.
Yes, but this is all so obvious that I said the same thing over a year ago already :laugh:
Post by: dsmart on May 29, 2018, 03:49:39 PM
Oeh, I know, I know. Aren't they due to publish their numbers in the UK by July first? And there is no way to avoid that any longer, so they have to show the whole world that all the money is gone without anyhing but the current pre-alpha crap to show for? But including almost a million dollar per year per company for Chris. And for Sandi. And for Erin. And for Ortwin. Something like that?
Yhey changed the filing dates for their accounts to year end. That's why their 2016 filing was in Oct 2017 as per my article (http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/5973/) about it.
Post by: StanTheMan on May 29, 2018, 06:31:39 PM
The trouble with downsizing / shutting a studio (if that's what is happening) is that once that is made public, however they try and spin it, it looks like they're running out of cash. Then things start spiralling out of control and they're finished.
I suspect they'll desperately try and maintain the fiction that everything is going fine right up to the point where Chris flies off on permanent holiday to Ecuador with the remaining cash.
I guess their biggest problem is trying to get their loans payed back fast before the Banks start asking difficult questions.
I am not so sure.
Companies restructure all the time and Backers just need to be told what they want to hear.
If lots of offices close .. especially whilst other shit is going down, thats a different matter.
Post by: dsmart on May 29, 2018, 07:15:02 PM
Post by: dsmart on May 30, 2018, 09:49:40 AM
After this 5-part story (http://www.kotaku.co.uk/tag/inside-star-citizen/), they probably have an email recipe that scans headers for anything with Kotaku in it, then send it straight to trash.
Post by: Aya Reiko on May 30, 2018, 11:18:07 PM
Hold that thought. 2 weeks + 1
Ah yes... They're about to default on their loans, aren't they? Most notably the Coutts one since the news of that loan emerged around mid-late June of last year.
Post by: krylite on May 31, 2018, 05:00:06 AM
Post by: dsmart on May 31, 2018, 05:28:50 AM
Owen Good has taken the reins from Charlie Hall - and it's less funny.
Star Citizen’s $27,000 bundle raises eyebrows (https://www.polygon.com/2018/5/30/17411226/star-citizen-legatus-pack-bundle)
Post by: dsmart on May 31, 2018, 05:48:13 AM
https://variety.com/2018/gaming/news/star-citizen-27000-pack-1202825654/
Post by: StanTheMan on May 31, 2018, 06:03:46 AM
Oh wow! They made it into Variety
https://variety.com/2018/gaming/news/star-citizen-27000-pack-1202825654/
Another piece of shoddy journalism.
All good free PR for Star Citizen...
Post by: dsmart on May 31, 2018, 06:39:17 AM
http://www.game-debate.com/news/25159/e3-pc-gaming-show-2018-conference-lineup-revealed
Post by: N0mad on May 31, 2018, 01:10:03 PM
https://thenextweb.com/gaming/2018/05/31/heres-why-that-27k-star-citizen-pack-makes-perfect-sense/
Post by: StanTheMan on May 31, 2018, 02:23:25 PM
LOL And some more:
https://thenextweb.com/gaming/2018/05/31/heres-why-that-27k-star-citizen-pack-makes-perfect-sense/
She has no sense !
Quote
Makes sense in a way .. Until the game is actually, finally released sometime around the heat death of the universe
At the very least, it doesn't make any sense to spend any money, let alone $27k on a game that might be released when the universe is dying a heat death- which ofc ifs by no means the certain fate of the universe anyway.
Stupid mare !
Post by: Bubba on May 31, 2018, 02:56:13 PM
Ontology 101: "In a way" means "Only by accident."
As in, "In way, that corpse is Socrates." Socrates is dead. In a way it works because absolutely it doesn't.
The Variety piece reiterated CR's pledge of open development and statement that all the money goes to development. It's almost as if they're setting up the next article.
Post by: dsmart on June 02, 2018, 05:10:59 AM
Post by: Motto on June 02, 2018, 05:53:51 AM
I take that as a sign that the universe is about to collapse?
Post by: N0mad on June 02, 2018, 06:05:32 AM
Post by: Motto on June 02, 2018, 06:11:28 AM
Post by: N0mad on June 02, 2018, 06:50:25 AM
I suspect they haven't been attracting new people for a while now and pissing off the minor backers doesn't matter because they can't refund and probably weren't likely to invest more anyway. Everything they're doing seems to be aimed at the hardcore Whales who will ignore the criticism and keep buying every shiny new expensive Jpeg CIG can produce.
Post by: dsmart on June 02, 2018, 07:28:24 AM
Even on the formal Reddit your latest Tweets are discussed (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/8nzmv4/accusation_of_unjust_enrichment_is_there_any/) :magical:
I take that as a sign that the universe is about to collapse?
Just wait for what comes next. I'm not sure how they would handle it. It's coming.
Post by: Motto on June 02, 2018, 10:41:38 AM
I just replied to that with: Oh, so no meaningful discussion about actual concerns?
Probably will expedite the removal of the thread. Which is kinda too bad, considering captaindata1701 posted this:
All one has to do is look at the many issues rationally to see the problems.
Most open development - Change the TOS 6 times and goes back on promise to show where the money went.
17 Companies most are just shell companies
Instead of staying with main studio moves to at great expense LA.
Tons of nepotism, friends, wife, etc
2mill of backer funds tossed in the trash over the engine
Who know's how much backer money was tossed in the trash over the Illfonic disaster.
Insane cost of hiring top actors when the base game is no even remotely close the 6 mill kickstarter goals.
No developer ever has wasted more time making videos that say a lot but add up to nothing, every video is a monument to the ongoing waste of backer funds.
Flat out lied about the early development of SC all demos they were created by crytek.
They are talking about adding water soon, devs did not even know that the ships were underwater for the first year due to how the engine handles water.
They have changed how you buy ships to keep the cash coming in.
How many videos in end ship sales?
Spend 25k to get some free ships
Spend 1k so you can get a hat?
Just a few I can remember the list if you have been following the project is huge.
Post by: Scruffpuff on June 02, 2018, 12:40:44 PM
Stickied comment: The person tweeting in these screenshots is completely and utterly banned, not just from here, but from Reddit as a whole. Posting his tweets is a way for him to subvert this ban. Whether or not OP knew this doesn't matter, and this thread is being removed.
I just replied to that with: Oh, so no meaningful discussion about actual concerns?
Probably will expedite the removal of the thread. Which is kinda too bad, considering captaindata1701 posted this:
All one has to do is look at the many issues rationally to see the problems.
Most open development - Change the TOS 6 times and goes back on promise to show where the money went.
17 Companies most are just shell companies
Instead of staying with main studio moves to at great expense LA.
Tons of nepotism, friends, wife, etc
2mill of backer funds tossed in the trash over the engine
Who know's how much backer money was tossed in the trash over the Illfonic disaster.
Insane cost of hiring top actors when the base game is no even remotely close the 6 mill kickstarter goals.
No developer ever has wasted more time making videos that say a lot but add up to nothing, every video is a monument to the ongoing waste of backer funds.
Flat out lied about the early development of SC all demos they were created by crytek.
They are talking about adding water soon, devs did not even know that the ships were underwater for the first year due to how the engine handles water.
They have changed how you buy ships to keep the cash coming in.
How many videos in end ship sales?
Spend 25k to get some free ships
Spend 1k so you can get a hat?
Just a few I can remember the list if you have been following the project is huge.
I like your list here - I refer to some of those early ones when I'm trying to explain why this is a ridiculous and fraudulent project even before you start to get into the vast technological ineptitude. I'm generally not like this, but there's something about this project where I can honestly say I will enjoy watching it burn down, and I'll enjoy the fact that the backers got taken for every penny. Normally I'd feel bad, but this one is too obvious and the backers too toxic. Watching it all burn will have a Joker smile on my face for months.
Post by: dsmart on June 03, 2018, 03:51:51 AM
I like your list here - I refer to some of those early ones when I'm trying to explain why this is a ridiculous and fraudulent project even before you start to get into the vast technological ineptitude. I'm generally not like this, but there's something about this project where I can honestly say I will enjoy watching it burn down, and I'll enjoy the fact that the backers got taken for every penny. Normally I'd feel bad, but this one is too obvious and the backers too toxic. Watching it all burn will have a Joker smile on my face for months.
I don't care what happens to it, and I don't have any meaningful altruistic intents in my pursuit of accountability. Those fucking clowns who have been raging an Internet war of attrition, deserve to lose their money. And I have no doubt in my mind that someone (very likely to be Chris Roberts) is going to jail over this project. It's only a matter of time now.
Post by: StanTheMan on June 03, 2018, 12:19:30 PM
I don't care what happens to it, and I don't have any meaningful altruistic intents in my pursuit of accountability. Those fucking clowns who have been raging an Internet war of attrition, deserve to lose their money. And I have no doubt in my mind that someone (very likely to be Chris Roberts) is going to jail over this project. It's only a matter of time now.
Someone needs to project manage the next Star Citizen .Many Backers will be willing to bankroll another project run by someone that knows what they are doing ..
Post by: Kyrt on June 03, 2018, 11:53:05 PM
I am not so sure.
Companies restructure all the time and Backers just need to be told what they want to hear.
If lots of offices close .. especially whilst other shit is going down, thats a different matter.
Last rumour I heard is that they are to close Frankfurt and one of their UK offices.
Not sure how true that is though.
Would two out of five, including one of the "big 4", count as "lots"?
Post by: Aya Reiko on June 04, 2018, 03:16:40 AM
Last rumour I heard is that they are to close Frankfurt and one of their UK offices.Derek probably has a clearer picture on this, but I'm guessing it'll be about a week before all will be revealed or something.
Not sure how true that is though.
Would two out of five, including one of the "big 4", count as "lots"?
Post by: StanTheMan on June 04, 2018, 06:26:43 AM
Last rumour I heard is that they are to close Frankfurt and one of their UK offices.
Not sure how true that is though.
Would two out of five, including one of the "big 4", count as "lots"?
Oh yes...but wouldnt they spin it that .....Erin wants to live in Califor n i a ?
Perhaps the sympathy vote of .. for his health ...
Post by: Aya Reiko on June 07, 2018, 01:12:15 AM
Highlights:
Calls it what it is; Pay-to-Win (at the price of a new car)
Calls out CiG as motivated by greed and the game a scam.
Calls the game a tech demo, not an Alpha.
Post by: StanTheMan on June 07, 2018, 03:02:15 AM
Post by: N0mad on June 07, 2018, 12:52:39 PM
Post by: jwh1701 on June 07, 2018, 02:49:21 PM
It seems to be a theme now, if you're a Youtuber and you criticise Star Citizen then Montoya is here to re-educate you:
LOL Already getting replies on his vid still defending away, he's at 169 videos totaling 7.09gb.
I really wonder if he believes what he is saying? Or could it be more sinister and hes's on the payroll and look his audience dead in the eye and lie about it. I wonder if Montoya and others delete their channels and content when SC fails?
Post by: N0mad on June 07, 2018, 02:57:08 PM
I really wonder if he believes what he is saying? Or could it be more sinister and hes's on the payroll and look his audience dead in the eye and lie about it.
Montoya is deep inside his sunk cost fallacy. He's invested so much time, money and passion into making Star Citizen a reality he cannot step back to see what a disaster it's become.
He's clearly also an idiot.
Post by: Meowz on June 07, 2018, 02:59:16 PM
LOL Already getting replies on his vid still defending away, he's at 169 videos totaling 7.09gb.
I really wonder if he believes what he is saying? Or could it be more sinister and hes's on the payroll and look his audience dead in the eye and lie about it. I wonder if Montoya and others delete their channels and content when SC fails?
I doubt he's on CIG's payroll. I can guarantee he is making a profit off his org however. Either in viewer count, guild donations, and other avenues. The guy seems to have a pretty big ego, one he directly links to his status as leader of his enormous org and likes to be the center of their attention. Idk if TEST is on other games, but it seems SC is a big chunk and he obviously likes the attention and celebrity status. Without SC he might get a good dose of reality realizing is probably not a big shot in "the real world". I know a ton of guild leaders just like him across many games.
Post by: Greggy_D on June 07, 2018, 04:01:11 PM
He's simply an awful human being.
Post by: dsmart on June 07, 2018, 06:30:22 PM
He isn't pulling many punches...
Let's see how long before Shitizens descend on him.
Post by: dsmart on June 07, 2018, 06:33:09 PM
LOL Already getting replies on his vid still defending away, he's at 169 videos totaling 7.09gb.
I really wonder if he believes what he is saying? Or could it be more sinister and hes's on the payroll and look his audience dead in the eye and lie about it. I wonder if Montoya and others delete their channels and content when SC fails?
Looks like he's going to be responding to all these top streamers shitting on Star Citizen. He did a similar rebuke video after SidAlpha did his last week.
So pathetic.
Post by: dsmart on June 07, 2018, 06:35:37 PM
He lies, deflects, brings on false equivalencies about everything. And when confronted with facts he automatically triggers with an ad hominem.
He's simply an awful human being.
Yes, all of that - and more. These are the guys I am going to be completely ripping to shreds in the coming months. Just wait. Two Weeks.
Post by: Resin on June 08, 2018, 03:28:20 AM
Yes, all of that - and more. These are the guys I am going to be completely ripping to shreds in the coming months. Just wait. Two Weeks.One week?;)
Post by: N0mad on June 08, 2018, 03:48:09 AM
Post by: Resin on June 08, 2018, 04:23:19 AM
Post by: dsmart on June 08, 2018, 05:32:13 AM
BTW where is that Montoya from? I have understood he is from US but he has some foreign accent.
South Africa
Post by: BigM on June 08, 2018, 05:56:40 AM
I believe once all this crashes crowdfunding will die unless we have some type of laws (even though I don't trust any Government to help, they tend to make things more complicated) enacted to protect the gamers. If not, what Roberts has done could kill the gaming development and really hurt us gamers wanting better and exciting games.
Post by: N0mad on June 10, 2018, 02:26:14 AM
https://www.polygon.com/e3/2018/6/9/17409476/pc-gaming-show-press-conference-e3-2018
Streaming on June 11 @ 3 pm PT (6 pm ET / 11 pm BST / 8 am AEST):
https://gaming.youtube.com/c/pcgamer/live
https://www.twitch.tv/pcgamer
Ironically, both CIG AND Crytek will be at the event - should be interesting !
Post by: Backer42 on June 11, 2018, 05:40:51 AM
Ironically, both CIG AND Crytek will be at the event - should be interesting !Wait, aren't only entertainment industry professionals allowed attendance at E3? Since when is common folk and amateurs allowed on the venue?
Post by: N0mad on June 11, 2018, 05:46:55 AM
Post by: dsmart on June 11, 2018, 01:58:51 PM
Post by: N0mad on June 11, 2018, 04:07:13 PM
Post by: dsmart on June 11, 2018, 04:09:09 PM
The comments were brutal.
Meanwhile, over at the tribe..
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/8qdyri/the_trailer_from_e3_was/
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/8qdyra/trailers_like_the_one_at_e3_are_simply_misleading/
Post by: dsmart on June 11, 2018, 04:13:05 PM
Post by: N0mad on June 11, 2018, 04:20:56 PM
https://venturebeat.com/2018/06/11/star-citizen-teases-a-new-alpha-because-finishing-games-is-for-suckers/
Post by: dsmart on June 11, 2018, 05:23:20 PM
Post by: dsmart on June 11, 2018, 05:40:51 PM
Post by: Aya Reiko on June 11, 2018, 07:44:39 PM
Post by: dsmart on June 12, 2018, 03:56:35 AM
It's as if everyone and their mothers knew the jig was up, and only the Shitizens are the only ones still in denial.
It's almost like Cognitive Dissonance + Sunk Cost Fallacy :emot-lol:
Post by: David-2 on June 12, 2018, 06:53:14 AM
Oh for crying out loud, now they're trolling CR with new feature creep ideas!
Post by: jwh1701 on June 12, 2018, 05:18:20 PM
From the Venturebeat article: "I’m sure it will eventually involve cryptocurrency at some point."
Oh for crying out loud, now they're trolling CR with new feature creep ideas!
I have been pushing for crypto, still have two 8600gtx cards that are still working and ready to go.
In the last year I have created so many id's its hard to keep up with them all in a effort
to see what if they would try anyone of them.
(https://s26.postimg.cc/45lqjtb9h/crypto.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/45lqjtb9h/)
Post by: dsmart on June 14, 2018, 09:33:03 AM
Not even the SC (entry #118) fan boys showed up.
Post by: dsmart on June 14, 2018, 09:39:56 AM
For several years, the project has been accused of blatantly copying designs from existing source material. This time it's from Eve Online.
http://massivelyop.com/2018/06/14/star-citizen-and-eve-online-players-unite-to-call-out-lookalike-concept-ship/
Post by: jwh1701 on June 14, 2018, 10:21:29 AM
E3 youtube views and analysis 2018 (http://vizioneck.com/forum/index.php?topic=6396.0)
Not even the SC (#1168) fan boys showed up.
I would not have guessed it to be that low,
Latest Star Citizen controversy.
For several years, the project has been accused of blatantly copying designs from existing source material. This time it's from Eve Online.
http://massivelyop.com/2018/06/14/star-citizen-and-eve-online-players-unite-to-call-out-lookalike-concept-ship/
LOL not surprised in the least bit but the thread reads are always entertaining.
Meme in the comments by schlag
[img]http://
E3 youtube views and analysis 2018 (http://vizioneck.com/forum/index.php?topic=6396.0)
Not even the SC (#1168) fan boys showed up.
I would not have guessed it to be that low,
Latest Star Citizen controversy.
For several years, the project has been accused of blatantly copying designs from existing source material. This time it's from Eve Online.
http://massivelyop.com/2018/06/14/star-citizen-and-eve-online-players-unite-to-call-out-lookalike-concept-ship/
LOL not surprised in the least bit but the thread reads are always entertaining.
Meme in the comments by schlag
http://massivelyop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/DRAKE-INTERPLANETARY_559676_1.jpg
Post by: jwh1701 on June 15, 2018, 10:32:01 AM
Post by: dsmart on June 16, 2018, 06:56:22 AM
Eve Online and Star Citzen fans at war over £112 "copycat" spaceship (https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-06-16-eve-online-and-star-citzen-fans-at-war-over-112-copycat-spaceship)
Post by: krylite on June 17, 2018, 03:35:54 AM
"TIL India launched a Mars mission sending a satellite to orbit the red planet for less than half of what SC backers raised."
(http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/8roedw/til_india_launched_a_mars_mission_sending_a/)
(from: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/396642-The-Star-Citizen-Thread-v8?p=6791193&viewfull=1#post6791193 )
Post by: jwh1701 on June 17, 2018, 09:30:22 AM
EVE Online and Star Citizen Fans Trade Barbs Over Spaceship Design (http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2018/06/16/eve-online-and-star-citizen-fans-trade-barbs-over-spaceship-design)
Eve Online and Star Citzen fans at war over £112 "copycat" spaceship (https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-06-16-eve-online-and-star-citzen-fans-at-war-over-112-copycat-spaceship)
LOL.
Post by: dsmart on June 18, 2018, 05:09:37 AM
:emot-lol:
"TIL India launched a Mars mission sending a satellite to orbit the red planet for less than half of what SC backers raised."
(http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/8roedw/til_india_launched_a_mars_mission_sending_a/)
(from: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/396642-The-Star-Citizen-Thread-v8?p=6791193&viewfull=1#post6791193 )
:emot-lol:
Quote
I support this level of shitposting. You know you fucked up when it takes less money to orbit another planet than it does to launch a video game.
Post by: jwh1701 on June 18, 2018, 11:21:23 AM
"TIL India launched a Mars mission sending a satellite to orbit the red planet for less than half of what SC backers raised."
Fun thread.
Post by: dsmart on June 28, 2018, 06:03:43 AM
Post by: jwh1701 on June 28, 2018, 09:39:36 AM
15 Biggest Crowdfunding Scams and Failures of All Time (https://www.gobankingrates.com/making-money/business/biggest-crowdfunding-scams-failures/#16)
LOL at this increased rate of negative press they are going to have to write an awful lot of letters.
Post by: N0mad on June 28, 2018, 02:10:09 PM
:emot-siren: :emot-siren: LOL WARNING :emot-siren: :emot-siren: :emot-siren: :emot-siren: LOL WARNING :emot-siren: :emot-siren: :emot-siren: :emot-siren: LOL WARNING :emot-siren: :emot-siren:
I'm sure Derek has already read this but is still too busy rolling on the floor laughing to post anything:
https://venturebeat.com/2018/06/28/star-citizen-adds-mining-with-its-ambitious-alpha-3-2-quarterly-patch/
It's an interview with Erin & Eric Kieron Davis. One of their first questions is:
Quote
GamesBeat: Where are you now as far as how many people can be accommodated in the alpha? Is that going to change? Are you in the hundreds or thousands of players?
and it sort of goes downhill from there :emot-laugh:
Post by: dsmart on June 28, 2018, 05:34:45 PM
Post by: mtn355 on July 05, 2018, 07:08:20 AM
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/07/02/star-citizen-adds-mining-in-latest-update/
Bottom line:
“Star Citizen is due to launch in full shortly before the heat death of the universe.”
:cool:
Post by: jwh1701 on July 05, 2018, 07:15:33 AM
Just found this one:
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/07/02/star-citizen-adds-mining-in-latest-update/
Bottom line:
“Star Citizen is due to launch in full shortly before the heat death of the universe.”
:cool:
lol this will go on reddit shortly.
Post by: dsmart on July 05, 2018, 07:37:57 AM
Just found this one:
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/07/02/star-citizen-adds-mining-in-latest-update/
Bottom line:
“Star Citizen is due to launch in full shortly before the heat death of the universe.”
:cool:
I just saw that one, and was going to Tweet it :emot-lol:
Post by: mtn355 on July 05, 2018, 07:51:31 AM
Post by: dsmart on July 05, 2018, 07:52:44 AM
Yeah, just do it!
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/1014881170910310400
Post by: dsmart on July 06, 2018, 05:06:52 PM
Post by: jwh1701 on July 06, 2018, 06:53:16 PM
FORMER STAR CITIZEN DEV REFUTES FAKE GLASSDOOR REVIEW MADE BY TROLL ON HIS BEHALF (http://massivelyop.com/2018/07/05/former-star-citizen-dev-refutes-fake-glassdoor-review-made-by-troll-on-his-behalf)
LOL on the comments and looks like you get to have fun again there.
Post by: dsmart on July 07, 2018, 04:01:21 AM
LOL on the comments and looks like you get to have fun again there.
Yeah, it's Sat morning and I woke up to several post notifications. So I'm sitting on the beach with my iPad, laughing my ass off. Those guys will never - ever - learn.
Post by: jwh1701 on July 11, 2018, 09:04:18 AM
Update:
Sid's the video has a lot of responses already lot of good responses:
Zorrent12
Zorrent12
16 minutes ago
It just seems like Montoya's trying to argue that Cloud Imperium isn't greedy by giving a more extreme example of greed. Hell, the issue with the epipen thing isn't so much the greed as the callousness. Sure, the latter is exploiting a need certain individuals have to survive, but they're both driven by an intense, selfish desire for wealth.
Kierogonal
17 minutes ago
You say that a publisher would be keeping stretch goals realistic and hold the dev's feet to the fire. In this case as there is no publisher, it should be the customers doing it. The playerbase should be demanding results. Voting with their wallets, putting public pressure in forums and beneath articles. However far too many within the playerbase are rabidly loyal to CGI and seem to let more and more past them. You are right there is no real pressure on CGI to get stuff done, they've stumbled onto a magical formula which is printing money for them, why would they end it.
RageOfBlades
34 minutes ago
By the time Star Citizen is ready for prime time other publishers can make the same game. Warframe already added ship vs ship combat, boarding party, and team co-op ship management so the only difference between Star Citizen and Warframe is one is fully released at a better price.
SC Rules
SC Rules
2 hours ago (edited)
I have no issue with missed dates even if they are by 4 years or more. To build the greatest game ever created on an engine not designed for MMO or space sim it will take some time. For almost a year the devs did not know the space ships were underwater due to how the engine handles it. But thankfully they figure that out and worked hard to fix that issue. When you making an fps more lethal than COD then slipping by 4 years is not an issue. I will say that the fact ramps, doors do not work after 7 years of development is a sore spot for me.
It's OK to be honest about how many are working on ships and it is way more than 40. I'm not sure why Montoya always says otherwise. SC brothers should not be ashamed that so much is dedicated on ships. Ships provide hours on screenshot content and that's what important.
I just wish Montoya and others would be upfront about it as it hurts the image of all of the SC brotherhood.
Watch the videos below to see how many are working on ships.
I'm also confused why Montoya says they need money, Chris has stated he can finish both games and he has private funding. Chris stated he could have all his income cutoff and would have no issue finishing the game.
One thing I just saw is Chris issued himself 850,000 shares for pennies on the dollar including his brother and lawyer friend. I'm hoping we can so purchase shares in CIG and they can use those shares to attracted top talent. Nothing would be better than to purchase stock options while playing the greatest game ever made.
Montoya is under the assumption they need more money because they have only finished 18% of the game in seven years. But Chris is an excellent manager and can easily finish the game with little to no additional money.
https://starcitizentracker.github.io/
Chris is fully prepaid to keep funding if they did run out. I'm sure hiring top AAA actors for mocapping was expensive. But by funding so much Chris was able to relive his Hollywood dream again.
Squadron 42 would fund Star Citizen if cash ran out
https://www.pcinvasion.com/squadron-42-fund-star-citizen-cash/
CIG finished v2 procedural generation in 2016 and its way ahead of any other game developer in the world. Look how well they were doing procedural generation in 2016. CIG has no issues with proc-gen look at the awesome planets are already in the game.
Star Citizen: Procedural Planets v2 (Official)
Chris just made a smart decision to bring IFCS in house. Many have complained over the years about flight issues. Now that Chris brought that in house it will be the best flight model the world has ever seen. When Chris outsourced Sq42 ans was unable to manage Illfonic properly it was a complete disaster and a huge loss of time and backer funds.
The 27k package is really 28k as you have to spend 1k to see this awesome package.
But just look at the free gifts Chris gives you if invest with him. For only investing 2500 in SC you can get the Grand Admiral Title.
$1k, High Admiral title
Early access to buying event tickets and sale items (including concierge only events/sales)
Priority customer service
Concierge subform/chat
In-game tophat, monocle, whiskey, and gold skinned energy pistol
$2.5k, Grand Admiral title
Gold skinned Arrowhead sniper rifle
$5k, Space Marshal/Lt. Commander title
Gold skinned RSI Venture spacesuit
$10k, Wing Commander title
LTI F8C Lightning
$15k, Completionist title
$25k, Legatus Navium (no title)
Gold skinned LTI F8C Lightning
Sharkmouth edition Havock scattergun
Also Chris did toss 2million of backers funds in the trash on the Cryengine but it was a smart move. This also has caused a delay have to move everything over to LY. I'm sure the lawsuit is costing backers a lot of money but Chris I'm sure will manage this as well. Hindsight he should have worked to properly end the contract but bold moves had to be made to bring the greatest game ever made to life.
Post by: jwh1701 on July 11, 2018, 12:43:02 PM
I would say that ftr did not need to use profanity, SC is an easy enough target.
Post by: krylite on July 11, 2018, 01:41:15 PM
Montoya says we have star citizen derangement syndrome and its spreading.
I would say that ftr did not need to use profanity, SC is an easy enough target.
lol, good to see Montoya knows FTR has flipped posts about SC too. FTR even has a new ED video where he all but admits to having had fun with Beyond this past year while still whiny wailing and mouthing off to ED dev and players just because he got caught in the latest round of nerfs, probably because he rage-quit ED at least over a year ago. (
, it was mod banned initially by yt forcing him to re-edit it, lol ) His last video on ED which was sometime last year all but disses it compared to SC where in an even earlier video, he was certain SC was on track to "win" out over ED, lol. He also always cusses in his videos, his content is bs (grossly inaccurate about ED as always) and the idiot twat thinks no one can see or remember all the hypocritical entitled shit he's mouthed over the past about ED (and now SC because he has really no other useful or informed content). I hope his useless trashtalk channel truly dies someday.
btw, interesting post on SidMead's video. yep, doesn't make sense why they need more backing unless they had already wasted most of that 189 million due to mistakes or self-enrichment greed. A responsible financially audited company would have outed and closed the project as a mismanaged waste of grievous mistakes and incompetent management early on, but of course the whole CIG-arrets organization has grown to be an amazing ponzi that needs to be put in the coffin where it belongs sooner.
Post by: jwh1701 on July 11, 2018, 03:07:59 PM
lol, good to see Montoya knows FTR has flipped posts about SC too. FTR even has a new ED video where he all but admits to having had fun with Beyond this past year while still whiny wailing and mouthing off to ED dev and players just because he got , it was mod banned initially by yt forcing him to re-edit it, lol ) His last video on ED which was sometime last year all but disses it compared to SC where in an even earlier video, he was certain SC was on track to "win" out over ED, lol. He also always cusses in his videos, his content is bs (grossly inaccurate about ED as always) and the idiot twat thinks no one can see or remember all the hypocritical entitled shit he's mouthed over the past about ED (and now SC because he has really no other useful or informed content). I hope his useless trashtalk channel truly dies someday.
btw, interesting post on SidMead's video. yep, doesn't make sense why they need more backing unless they had already wasted most of that 189 million due to mistakes or self-enrichment greed. A responsible financially audited company would have outed and closed the project as a mismanaged waste of grievous mistakes and incompetent management early on, but of course the whole CIG-arrets organization has grown to be an amazing ponzi that needs to be put in the coffin where it belongs sooner.
Great back story on FTR as I had not seen him popup in recommendations but I usually search for SC new vids. Just seeing him and how he speaks I would agree your assessment is spot on. I like sid's videos and how he presents his ideas from what I have watched.
Post by: dsmart on July 11, 2018, 03:16:37 PM
Great back story on FTR as I had not seen him popup in recommendations but I usually search for SC new vids. Just seeing him and how he speaks I would agree your assessment is spot on. I like sid's videos and how he presents his ideas from what I have watched.
I don't care, let them eat each other. We're just here for the lols :emot-lol:
Post by: jwh1701 on July 11, 2018, 04:47:24 PM
I don't care, let them eat each other. We're just here for the lols :emot-lol:
Star citizen just keeps on giving, plus all the fun trolling.
Post by: jwh1701 on July 11, 2018, 04:48:26 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/8y0ldb/ulfcig_tweeted_this_i_thought_it_was_worth/
Post by: krylite on July 12, 2018, 12:28:49 AM
Great back story on FTR as I had not seen him popup in recommendations but I usually search for SC new vids. Just seeing him and how he speaks I would agree your assessment is spot on. I like sid's videos and how he presents his ideas from what I have watched.
There's even more disingenuous things about his ED video. I noted that in the video (which was initially changed from some obscenity which was mod banned by yt to now just the rotating station showing off his ships) he has a cutter in chrome paint and even bought the ship kit for it. The chrome paintjob was only for a limited time in the Frontier store last holiday season even though you could order it then without attaining the cutter ship yet. So he had been playing ED at least since last December. So his nonsense about complaining about an "elite" segment causing the recent mission payout nerf is again whining bs since he himself already has a cutter considered an "endgame" or top tier asset ship already. So much for his bs about ED going to fail to SC in his videos way back a year or more ago.
Good or Bad Taste? Considering the state of the game, but it went over well with backers.
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/8y0ldb/ulfcig_tweeted_this_i_thought_it_was_worth/
They may have lucked out trying to look clever to their backers supposedly standing in those awkward stances possibly relating to the plausible element of a lower gravity sci-fi environment. ED would still have the advantage however if it ever gets spacelegs, as the game already simulates different gravities on billions of different planetoids with their cobra engine, while SC is still buggy stuck on their crylevels.
Post by: Aya Reiko on July 12, 2018, 01:07:49 AM
He's only jumping on the bandwagon to protect his own ass (i.e. views) and nothing more.
Post by: Resin on July 12, 2018, 02:01:10 AM
FTR flipped because momentum had clearly shifted against CiG and SC with only paid shills and cultists defending it anymore while everyone else (who still cares) regard it as a joke, at best, or a scam, at worst.
He's only jumping on the bandwagon to protect his own ass (i.e. views) and nothing more.
Who cares? I don’t. I’m in only for the lols his content provides. Can’t wait for Montoya’s response, I got my popcorns ready.
Post by: dsmart on July 12, 2018, 06:46:27 AM
Who cares? I don’t. I’m in only for the lols his content provides. Can’t wait for Montoya’s response, I got my popcorns ready.
Yup, same here.
Oh, his rebuttal to Montoya is up.
Meanwhile, over at TEST
https://testsquadron.com/threads/sidalpha-responds-to-montoya.13789/#post-261073
Post by: jwh1701 on July 12, 2018, 07:33:24 AM
Yup, same here.
Oh, his rebuttal to Montoya is up.
Meanwhile, over at TEST
https://testsquadron.com/threads/sidalpha-responds-to-montoya.13789/#post-261073
LOL, its so funny Montoya calling him the ultimate fanboy when he's in complete denial about SC.
Post by: Meowz on July 12, 2018, 07:46:32 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahaha hahaha... hahaha ...ha.... *breaths. wipes tear away*
*looks at it again, giggles* HAHAHAHAHAH!
Post by: dsmart on July 12, 2018, 07:47:33 AM
Post by: krylite on July 12, 2018, 08:59:49 PM
Post by: dsmart on July 13, 2018, 05:53:39 AM
Even though Montoya's a SC shill, I'm having fun watching him trash FTR who gets so unhinged because he knows he doesn't even cut it as a relevant shillizen or anything yt streamer. (and does a childish rant on ED's recent responsible efforts on balancing credit overinflation in the game, desperately trying to play to the impatient ED player segment, where his earlier schtick was dissing ED in favor of SC)
As I have said before, most of the Shillizens will be the same shitty people when they turn and on the other side.
Post by: krylite on July 13, 2018, 08:44:44 PM
As I have said before, most of the Shillizens will be the same shitty people when they turn and on the other side.
Right, I guess I shouldn't have expected one of them to treat ED with a respectful attitude publicly even if they enjoyed playing it in private for a fair cost of a released and great game.
Post by: dsmart on July 14, 2018, 05:02:58 AM
Post by: dsmart on July 16, 2018, 04:25:21 AM
https://attackofthefanboy.com/news/star-citizen-backers-no-longer-able-to-get-refunds/
https://www.bluesnews.com/s/191797/star-citizen-refund-refusals
https://www.hardocp.com/news/2018/07/15/star_citizen_backers_no_longer_able_to_get_refunds
https://www.altchar.com/games-news/572512/star-citizen-removes-option-to-refund-backers-lawsuit-fails
http://cogconnected.com/2018/07/star-citizen-supporters-can-no-longer-receive-refunds/
https://metro.co.uk/2018/07/16/games-inbox-crew-2-flop-octopath-traveler-impressions-star-citizen-refunds-7719419/amp/
Post by: Greggy_D on July 16, 2018, 07:03:10 AM
Post by: dsmart on July 16, 2018, 07:54:29 AM
Joe is going to be a busy boy today.
Yeah - his favorite battleground just posted the news
https://massivelyop.com/2018/07/16/star-citizen-backer-took-cig-to-small-claims-court-over-his-refund-request-and-lost/
Post by: jwh1701 on July 16, 2018, 09:02:22 AM
THE LATEST REFUND DEBACLE
https://attackofthefanboy.com/news/star-citizen-backers-no-longer-able-to-get-refunds/
Attackofthefanboy has a ton of rabid anti-Derek posts which tells me that your doing a great job. If only I could incite the same with my trolling :(
Post by: dsmart on July 16, 2018, 11:14:36 AM
Attackofthefanboy has a ton of rabid anti-Derek posts which tells me that you doing a great job. If only I could incite the same with my trolling :(
It's great! Because it shows how crazy and unhinged they are.
Post by: dsmart on July 16, 2018, 01:14:28 PM
https://www.mmogames.com/gamenews/star-citizen-backer-loses-rsi-small-claims-court-lawsuit/
Post by: dsmart on July 17, 2018, 09:49:10 AM
Post by: dsmart on July 17, 2018, 02:43:26 PM
BOOM! CIG rep who spoke with Kotaku, confirmed ANOTHER point I made in my thread (https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/1018927889818046464) regarding TOS arbitration date implications
“His pledges with new money on top of his earlier pledges required him to accept the new Terms of Service.”
Post by: dsmart on July 18, 2018, 03:52:56 AM
Post by: dsmart on July 18, 2018, 04:32:20 AM
Post by: Greggy_D on July 18, 2018, 10:30:34 AM
Montoya: "Truth of the matter is if that guy only spent $45 on the starter pack, he would not be so concerned. His issue was over-extending himself financially. $4500 is a lot of money to have tied up in a game for most people"
Post by: dsmart on July 18, 2018, 02:27:38 PM
http://www.denofgeek.com/us/games/star-citizen/274976/star-citizen-backer-loses-lawsuit-against-developers-for-pledge-money
Post by: dsmart on July 18, 2018, 02:28:50 PM
What a dick! How can he blatantly lie over and over?
Montoya: "Truth of the matter is if that guy only spent $45 on the starter pack, he would not be so concerned. His issue was over-extending himself financially. $4500 is a lot of money to have tied up in a game for most people"
Well that's why we just troll and laugh at them.
Post by: dsmart on July 19, 2018, 07:30:11 AM
https://www.techspot.com/news/75553-star-citizen-backer-lawsuit-refund-4500-pledge-ends.html
http://www.shacknews.com/article/106212/star-citizen-backer-loses-long-running-court-case-over-4500-refund
Post by: N0mad on July 22, 2018, 01:17:31 PM
Starts 7.46
Post by: dsmart on July 22, 2018, 01:41:25 PM
Post by: dsmart on July 28, 2018, 09:09:15 AM
Post by: jwh1701 on July 28, 2018, 11:40:11 AM
Can a disaster be averted?
Long but great video a lot of issues.
Post by: krylite on July 28, 2018, 01:14:36 PM
Post by: jwh1701 on July 28, 2018, 02:53:30 PM
Side related, but it shows how SC is increasingly obsolete (with their haphazard mismanaged focus on whaling-selling) , even in the area of a fpv walking game. Particular lol's in the commentary re: SC progress compared to NMS "fixed" or at least improved over a stable core, after two years. Updates all free for previous owners and now half-price sale for the game, so no sign of CIG-like p2w shenanigans.
Enjoyed the review but still on the fence about it, just tired of massive space games that are light years wide and inch deep.
Post by: krylite on July 28, 2018, 03:20:45 PM
Can Star Citizen be saved.
Nice long comprehensive view on the SC debacle. The guy makes some misinformed or fence-sitting mistakes. SC is a scam. It's long past any allowance for reputable motivations in the way CR & crew have run CIG to bilk brainwashed backers. And also far too late and ludicrous for any big triple-A entity to consider buying out and taking over SC and CIG. It needs to collapse and blow up big. The fallout won't be that bad imo, because there's still success by other independents in comparison such as Frontier and ED. The shillizens and whales will be relegated in gaming history as total dupes who were trapped by their own stupidity and their sunk-cost fallacy of SC.
Enjoyed the review but still on the fence about it, just tired of massive space games that are light years wide and inch deep.
I hear you jwh1701. I wouldn't exactly recommend NMS either if just based on their sordid reputation from their NMS release debacle. Just using their progress in two years as an example of focused development which has transformed at least the look of their game compared to the utter mess of SC's joke of progress. A lot of the recent hype of the "Next" update are from previous owners of NMS who are relieved that having been pre-ordered duped at NMS launch that with the update it apparently hasn't been a total sunk cost purchase for them. More unbiased reviews of new owners of the past week still say the game is mostly empty grind, a mediocre survival game at its core, dumbed down simplified pretend spacesim if it can even be called that, compared to ED, and after a few hours enjoying the new changes and additions, it gets boring quick again.
Post by: StanTheMan on July 28, 2018, 04:12:59 PM
Nice long comprehensive view on the SC debacle. The guy makes some misinformed or fence-sitting mistakes. SC is a scam. It's long past any allowance for reputable motivations in the way CR & crew have run CIG to bilk brainwashed backers.
Yep and Derek's recent Tweets on the new medical ship are pretty much all you need to come to that conclusion - nevermind everything else.
Post by: Aya Reiko on July 28, 2018, 11:41:52 PM
@1:05:25 Gee... I wonder who they are talking about... :emot-smuggo:
Post by: krylite on July 29, 2018, 12:52:08 AM
@1:05:25 Gee... I wonder who they are talking about... :emot-smuggo:
Yep, I'd heard that. lol, at "can't give credence" to. While his whole video ironically gives credence to most points Derek has made or originated over the years about SC. Well, it's a long recap summary I guess.
Post by: dsmart on July 30, 2018, 04:56:29 AM
Meet The Gamers Who Are Letting Their Partners Believe That Star Citizen Will Actually Come Out (http://www.pointandclickbait.com/2018/07/well-take-the-spruce-moose/)
Post by: jwh1701 on July 30, 2018, 07:30:36 AM
LOL!! This is great
Meet The Gamers Who Are Letting Their Partners Believe That Star Citizen Will Actually Come Out (http://www.pointandclickbait.com/2018/07/well-take-the-spruce-moose/)
LOL that was awesome, the last one is great.
Cash-Strapped Chris Roberts Attempts To Buy Milk With Spaceship Pre-Orders
http://www.pointandclickbait.com/2017/10/how-much-for-cigarettes/
Post by: dsmart on July 30, 2018, 04:26:40 PM
Post by: krylite on August 01, 2018, 07:23:30 AM
LOL!! This is great
Meet The Gamers Who Are Letting Their Partners Believe That Star Citizen Will Actually Come Out (http://www.pointandclickbait.com/2018/07/well-take-the-spruce-moose/)
wow, hilarious, but sad and crazy it's been taken to that level affecting those close to whalers. It makes me feel like the ponzi should be exposed and blown up as soon as possible to spare these people, but at the same time it could be a rude awakening and personally devastating.
Post by: StanTheMan on August 01, 2018, 05:03:39 PM
wow, hilarious, but sad and crazy it's been taken to that level affecting those close to whalers. It makes me feel like the ponzi should be exposed and blown up as soon as possible to spare these people, but at the same time it could be a rude awakening and personally devastating.
It would be funnier with the real stories of Backer excess...
Post by: dsmart on August 02, 2018, 07:10:16 AM
https://www.criticalhit.net/gaming/star-citizen-removes-game-currency-cap-inciting-pay-win-objections/
Post by: dsmart on August 03, 2018, 05:39:40 AM
Post by: dsmart on August 03, 2018, 05:47:01 AM
Post by: dsmart on August 03, 2018, 06:38:33 AM
Post by: dsmart on August 03, 2018, 01:23:33 PM
Post by: dsmart on August 06, 2018, 01:17:56 PM
https://www.altchar.com/games-news/573632/chris-roberts-defends-uec-cap-removal-in-star-citizen
https://gamingbolt.com/star-citizens-chris-roberts-on-communitys-pay-to-win-concerns-you-win-by-having-fun
Post by: dsmart on August 08, 2018, 06:05:23 PM
Itunes:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/massively-op/id966329746?mt=2&i=1000417379082
MP3:
https://we.tl/czVKav3u2J
Post by: dsmart on August 08, 2018, 08:21:35 PM
Post by: kaylani.larelli on August 09, 2018, 09:21:33 AM
The fun starts at the 33 min mark
That is excellent :grin:
Post by: dsmart on August 09, 2018, 10:31:21 AM
https://guardfrequency.com/223
Post by: satoru on August 10, 2018, 08:05:23 PM
Latest Guard Frequency is up. The fun starts @ 14:30
https://guardfrequency.com/223
Its kinda bizarre how they say Chris has 'addressed the economy' when literally no one can even artiulate how the economy actually is supposed to work
Post by: dsmart on August 11, 2018, 06:01:42 AM
Its kinda bizarre how they say Chris has 'addressed the economy' when literally no one can even artiulate how the economy actually is supposed to work
I think they are talking about the statement he issued.
Post by: dsmart on August 11, 2018, 10:57:08 AM
https://wccftech.com/inside-the-star-citizen-development-process-exclusive-interview/
Post by: Spunky Munkee on August 11, 2018, 12:11:53 PM
You must be joking. He skillset is so outdated I doubt that he serves any useful function. People probably avoid him like a disease.
Post by: jwh1701 on August 11, 2018, 01:59:59 PM
Jesus, this interview
https://wccftech.com/inside-the-star-citizen-development-process-exclusive-interview/
So over the top, new pc incoming.
(https://s26.postimg.cc/407a3qfr9/screenshot_2018_08_11_at_16_59_12.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/407a3qfr9/)
Post by: orko on August 11, 2018, 05:04:40 PM
From the interview "With a project like this, and you know Chris (Roberts) himself is a coder and he’s up every night poring through the code, the man is a machine."
You must be joking. He skillset is so outdated I doubt that he serves any useful function. People probably avoid him like a disease.
I agree. All of this reminds me of a past job of mine, and i need to get it out.
I once worked nearly a decade for a boss who was a proud, self-taught "coder". In reality, he was a remarkable sales person with strong negotiation skills, but zero interest in coding. I nearly burned out there, because I needed to rewrite everything he wrote whenever his projects needed support... And they always did, as he left them unfinished. Sometimes he even sent releases to end users without debugging a single line of code, and every single time he let others assume his products were complete. They always were complete to him, despite being bug-ridden unstable vomits of last night's spaghetti code that sometimes crashed immediately on startup. And to make it even worse, once you took responsibility and fixed the products no matter what, he started questioning how it could take so much extra time to finish the thing, so you were stuck alone with the intially fucked up project with now pissed customers for any subsequent problems, and they could be anything from incorrect specs to completely missing features and obviously big financial losses to customers.
I get this similar feeling of blind pride (read: he's a narcissist) from CR. I've seen a few videos with CR in front of a PC playing and "coding" SC and he has looked so goddamn lost in those. I doubt he cares about coding as a craft or modern project management methods at all, at least in a way that really promotes self-repairing development cycles and produces better teams. Despite CIG seems to be running some king of agile method with milestones in public, their results speak more of a fixed budget waterfall project.
If I'm correct, CIG has never successfully closed a public sprint/milestone. They have never focused enough to complete a feature and then polish it to version 1.0, and if any of the glimpses of reality hold, I'm not too surprised. There seems to be constant changes in their already exploded plans (let's add tanks, mechs, bar experience, toilet animations etc.), they fight against unrealistic time estimates ("I absolve myself from that." - CR), there has been public blame shifting both to external and internal parties by CR, they have designed and implemented systems and demos to later ditch them completely, not to mention nepotism, straight out lying about non-existing products and a bunch of other things stirring the soup. How could anyone focus in a mess like that? No matter how cool it can be to work at CIG - professional teams usually adapt well and build synergies on their own - it can all be poisoned by a number of ways, and under NDA it's not pretty.
In my eyes, this whole CryEngine - StarEngine - AWS/Lumberyard engine shift along with the evolution of the game's genre to "Singleplayer - Co-Op - MMO - Cinematic FPS RPG - Flight Sim - Virtual life sim - Universe scale civilication sim - Open world everything sandbox" are the most obvious examples of decisions made in hindsight by an opportunistic sales person, not an experienced developer.
Post by: dsmart on August 13, 2018, 01:30:39 PM
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/1028991113020039168
Post by: jwh1701 on August 13, 2018, 04:41:15 PM
Adrian, the author, responded to one of my Tweets. My response was worthy of a multi-tweet thread
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/1028991113020039168
Nice, most people I know including myself do not think of wccigftech to be very reputable. This interview
just reinforces that we cannot be to far off on that opinion.
Post by: DemonInvestor on August 13, 2018, 10:23:02 PM
Adrian, the author, responded to one of my Tweets. My response was worthy of a multi-tweet thread
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/1028991113020039168
Well asking hard questions isn't nessecarily in the best interest for people already invested into a failing project. Especially true if there's no clear criminal case and recoverable assets. As speaking out would only reduce the chance for someone who already invested of getting anything of value back. Though such behaviour would mean he'd be already aware of the company inability to answer said hard questions, but hopes there's something recoverable (at least through new investments). And as far as i read psychological material there's this protective measure of people not wanting to find out that they really fucked up with some decisions.
So Derek you really shouldn't wonder about invested people not publically asking hard questions. Good answer of you, though.
Post by: dsmart on August 14, 2018, 04:14:37 AM
Well asking hard questions isn't nessecarily in the best interest for people already invested into a failing project. Especially true if there's no clear criminal case and recoverable assets. As speaking out would only reduce the chance for someone who already invested of getting anything of value back. Though such behaviour would mean he'd be already aware of the company inability to answer said hard questions, but hopes there's something recoverable (at least through new investments). And as far as i read psychological material there's this protective measure of people not wanting to find out that they really fucked up with some decisions.
So Derek you really shouldn't wonder about invested people not publically asking hard questions. Good answer of you, though.
Yeah, I am well aware that it would go against the grain for them to ask any hard and/or pertinent questions. I wasn't even going to respond to that article at all, because it's the usual bs. My first twitter thread (https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/1028706384345489408) was just an overview about missed opportunity. He responded to it. And that's what prompted my second thread (above).
Regardless, the point I was making is that it's these fluff pieces which end up making them complicit in the on-going scam because they become proxies for CIG.
Anyway, I just checked my Twitter feed, and it looks like he left a swath of responses. This morning is going to be all kinds of fun. :emot-lol:
Post by: dsmart on August 14, 2018, 06:20:32 AM
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/1029338750298537985
Post by: Meowz on August 14, 2018, 07:42:44 AM
He came backAdrian Ip is going to need a bulk shipment of aloe...
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/1029338750298537985
Post by: BigM on August 14, 2018, 07:52:25 AM
He came back
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/1029338750298537985
Not being the brightest dealing with developing games and math (always sucked at it, lol) thank you for writing so even someone like myself can understand where you are coming from. The thing is if I can understand how this whole thing has been a scam, it shocks me so many are still defending Roberts. We live in strange times.
Post by: jwh1701 on August 14, 2018, 07:56:47 AM
He came back
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/1029338750298537985
The replies are so great,
:perfect: "article itself reeks of bias, gratuitous bs, irresponsible writing, wanton fanboyism - and ZERO accountability"
Post by: DemonInvestor on August 14, 2018, 02:01:35 PM
He came back
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/1029338750298537985
I don't really follow you on the going concern projections so far, but i follow you on their inability to deliver what they promised. And that the changes of TOS and overal sales behaviour implicate problems. An analysis i'd be really interested in, is how many project leads they lost over time, while them not having finished their job. As those key positions indicate how likely they'll finish with the project. But i guess those an analysis would be hard to do.
Post by: dsmart on August 14, 2018, 04:43:56 PM
I don't really follow you on the going concern projections so far,
Yeah, "going concern" is a simple concept that is somehow hard for mere mortals to understand.
I explained it as best as I could in my Tweet storm to him this morning. Here's another way to look at it:
1) company needs $4M per month to operate; which means $12M per quarter
2) at the end of Q1 of that year, they had $16M cash on hand, and they are making $4M per month. They are "going concern" because the income is self-sustaining as long as it remains constant and/or exceeds current levels of income
3) something happened and in Q3 they had $8M cash on hand, and they are making $1M per month. They are now no longer a "going concern" because with that cash on hand, coupled with the reduced income, they will be insolvent (expenses exceed income) by end of Q4
4) they go out and get a loan, investor money etc and they are once again a going concern for a period of time. btw this is the very basis of a Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing during which companies use that period to not pay any bills, until they can restructure via cost cutting measures, new cash, debt financing etc.
In the case of CIG, in Q4/15 (Oct to be exact) they were rumored to have cash on hand for 90 days (end of Jan 2016), and at their growth rate would no longer be a going concern by end of Q1/2016.
In order to prevent that, they started doing all kinds of shady sales shenanigans to raise enough cash to sustain their monthly burn rate.
That's all there is to it.
In the case of F42 group, if anything happens to the CIG/RSI parent, they will go under immediately because they are in debt, and have NO independent source of income other than what they get from the US parent. As per their 2017 filing, by the end of Q1/2017, they had enough cash on hand for barely 1 week of operating costs. Which, by all accounts, means they were insolvent. Of course they are still around a year later because the parent is still financing their operations.
but i follow you on their inability to deliver what they promised. And that the changes of TOS and overal sales behaviour implicate problems. An analysis i'd be really interested in, is how many project leads they lost over time, while them not having finished their job. As those key positions indicate how likely they'll finish with the project. But i guess those an analysis would be hard to do.
Nobody knows or cares to track that sort of thing. It's not relevant in the general scheme of things because having the same people on the project doesn't mean it's going to fare any better. They've proven that much already via their inability to finish a SINGLE game after 7 yrs and $191M.
People come and go all the time. The issue is that replacing lost experienced people, with new inexperienced ones, tends to be the quicker path to failure. Especially in the software industry.
Post by: Meowz on August 14, 2018, 06:27:20 PM
Post by: Penny579 on August 15, 2018, 12:35:11 AM
An analysis i'd be really interested in, is how many projects leads they lost over time, while them not having finished their job. As those key positions indicate how likely they'll finish with the project. But i guess those an analysis would be hard to do.
I seem to remember early on just before or around the restructuring, maybe in 2014-2015 ish, period there were a lot of bigger names leaving.
from what struck me about a lot of the exits then, to my untrained eye they appeared to be experts in their relative areas they were all saying similar things along the lines of.
Chris asked me to do this, I said that's mega hard to do we could do it easier ways. But Chris insisted.
Then Chris asked me to do this, I told him I'm an expert in this, what your asking is impossible, but Chris insisted.
Spent the next three months trying different approaches, trying to deliver the impossible while also working around my now previously overly complicated work.
Chris now insists I'm a clueless idiot who does not know what I'm doing due to the lack of progress on said impossible task. working at CIG become a toxic nightmare.
After months of abuse trying to complete the vision in the exact way Chris wants it, I have finally done the impossible, ok it uses a complex multi-tier kludge system, but it worked. On presenting this to Chris he said I had to throw the whole thing out and start again .... because there was a green pixel.
I wish Chris all the best in his project no hard feelings but I feel I could do more elsewhere.
This seemed to happen in every area accept art and graphics. Some classic examples
The only way to get to a game menu was by putting on a helmet.
The FPS Camera only displaying in-game animations.
Backend server tech
Networking tech
MMO design
while not an analysis you can draw much from, the fact the project is where it is today can't come as too much of a surprise.
I mean its revolutionary development process,
1. hire experts
2. ignore expert advice
3. Insist your own expertise is superior
4. get rid of experts after unsatisfactory results.
5. Hire graduate who listens to your superior expertise
6. AAA Results!! BDSE!!
Post by: dsmart on August 15, 2018, 09:57:21 AM
https://massivelyop.com/2018/08/15/a-judge-has-mostly-denied-star-citizen-studios-motion-to-dismiss-the-crytek-copyright-lawsuit/
Post by: DemonInvestor on August 15, 2018, 02:36:42 PM
We're basically arguing about slow or fast fall. And i'm not sure it will be a fast one. As you just said bank lines and cost cutting can make you dodge the bullet. And i've seen companies dodging such bullets for a long time. Or to paraphrase and old KPMG guy - 'going concern(/bankruptcy) predictions are always answered in hindsight, and they're more easily answered then, so that people will judge you a hero or a zero, even when they couldn't have known better in your shoes'. Though clear cases exist...
The rumour about 90 days of cash, has been for me a rumour so far. And i won't exactly buy into such easily. Going concern as concept is easily understood the partly local accounting standards leading towards predictions of going concerns are more complex, yes.
But maybe you've really pieced together the whole company puzzle with the financials - i for one haven't and haven't seen a clear enough picture yet to judge a fast downfall. Though the MTD decision might change that.
As to the team - i was mostly interested in what you're actually saying with the reduction of overall experience/insight and how that can be a huge problem for (software) projects. I know it's hard to track. But you've talked a while about seemingly key personnel leaving, so i just wondered.
@Penny579
I got the feeling that was the case.
It's just the overall curiosity of how such cases play out.
Post by: dsmart on August 16, 2018, 02:00:33 PM
Post by: StanTheMan on August 16, 2018, 06:25:14 PM
I suspect this guy has had a "dirty feeling" almost as many times as Batgirl and Lesnick...
Post by: Spunky Munkee on August 16, 2018, 06:59:09 PM
It must be good to be the Emporer, to keep all the minions in rapture over his dazzling suit.
At least it used to be.
Post by: dsmart on August 17, 2018, 03:00:23 PM
My comments:
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/1030575032567836675
Post by: dexatron on August 17, 2018, 04:55:54 PM
Post by: dsmart on August 18, 2018, 05:15:17 AM
I guess the boys at cgmagazine didn't get the news yet...
He's way off the mark. I just updated my post above with my comments on his article (sloppy work)
Post by: StanTheMan on August 18, 2018, 07:03:55 AM
Jesus, this interview
https://wccftech.com/inside-the-star-citizen-development-process-exclusive-interview/
I love these wankers that say SC brought them back to PC gaming as though that actually qualifies them as an expert or indeed a proper PC gamer....
Post by: dsmart on August 21, 2018, 02:37:24 PM
https://guardfrequency.com/225
Post by: dsmart on August 31, 2018, 08:09:42 AM
https://www.criticalhit.net/gaming/star-citizens-citizencon-2948-livestream-going-locked-behind-paywall-course/
https://www.pcgamesn.com/star-citizen/star-citizen-citizencon-virtual-ticket
https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2018/08/31/and-your-monthly-star-citizen-controversy-is-a-20-paywall-to-watch-citizencon/#2c86ff57697b
Post by: dsmart on August 31, 2018, 06:10:48 PM
https://www.polygon.com/2018/8/31/17806598/star-citizen-citizencon-free-how-to-stream
Post by: Spunky Munkee on September 01, 2018, 12:20:21 AM
Actually...
It's not LIKE it is paying to have Robbers whisper sweet nothings in the neckbeards ears.
It IS paying to be lied to.
If you just tell us it will be OK we will keep sending you money.
It's like watching the Dr Phil show where these sad middle aged women send hundreds of thousands of dollars to their nigerian "husbands". So long as they can maintain the delusion it's all good.
Post by: dsmart on September 04, 2018, 10:28:21 AM
In case you missed his earlier rant from 2015
Post by: jwh1701 on September 05, 2018, 02:07:35 PM
Oh boy, this is sure to enrage the citizenship
In case you missed his earlier rant from 2015
Pretty funny, I really did not start thinking something had really gone off the deep end in maui till early 2016.
Post by: dsmart on September 21, 2018, 05:25:44 AM
FF to 3:10
Post by: dsmart on September 24, 2018, 04:46:58 AM
(http://ffn.nodwick.com/ffnstrips/2018-09-20.png) (https://ffn.nodwick.com/)
Post by: dsmart on October 10, 2018, 11:15:53 AM
https://www.polygon.com/2018/10/10/17959692/star-citizen-face-over-animation-tech-launch-ptu
Post by: dsmart on October 15, 2018, 10:03:53 AM
https://boingboing.net/2018/10/15/star-citizens-terrifying-f.html
Post by: dsmart on October 18, 2018, 10:31:12 AM
https://guardfrequency.com/233
:emot-lol:
04:00 - "I have not enjoyed anything but the dreaming, but those dreams were squashed due to CIG's failure to launch an engaging product" (reading from an e-mail)
19:00 - "I'm not disappointed with 61% undelivered"
01:04:30 - "I think this trainwreck coming down the pike"
Post by: dsmart on October 25, 2018, 10:21:51 AM
:emot-lol:
"There's still not a lot to do in Star Citizen but thankfully there is now ridiculous technology to do it with."
Post by: dsmart on October 25, 2018, 11:49:30 AM
https://www.polygon.com/2018/10/25/18023616/star-citizen-face-over-tech-david-bowie-cover
Post by: dsmart on October 26, 2018, 05:41:51 AM
http://askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/179387910576/my-brother-is-a-big-of-star-citizen-as-an
Post by: dsmart on October 31, 2018, 07:05:19 AM
It seems EA think thousand player instances can be done using cloud servers. Interesting.
https://www.kotaku.com.au/2018/10/ea-has-over-1000-staff-working-on-cloud-gaming/
A simple example given was the battle royale genre. Games tend to have a maximum of 100 players due to the current constraints of consoles and gaming PCs, but relying on cloud computing could - in theory - overcome those technical restrictions to enable grander experiences. "Thousands of players could compete on a single map hundreds or thousands of kilometers wide, in a game session that could last for days, weeks, or years and with the progression and persistence of realistic seasons and campaigns," Moss said.
Except, this has never been in dispute because that's how MMO games are designed from the ground up; hence the "massively" part. Big worlds, seamlessly stitched together to give the impression of scale isn't rocket science. Eve Online does it, though at a smaller scale and their game isn't real-time twitch based. ED does it just fine - and they use cloud tech to do it. LoD does it - though I use linked hardware servers instead of cloud instances.
Also, that wasn't the claim that Chris and Erin made. Their claim was "thousands of players on a single server". You do know the difference, right?
ps: You did notice the "in theory" part of that statement, right?
Post by: jwh1701 on October 31, 2018, 11:40:52 AM
*MOVED* Note, I am no longer going to be moving off-topic posts. From now on, I will just delete them
Except, this has never been in dispute because that's how MMO games are designed from the ground up; hence the "massively" part. Big worlds, seamlessly stitched together to give the impression of scale isn't rocket science. Eve Online does it, though at a smaller scale and their game isn't real-time twitch based. ED does it just fine - and they use cloud tech to do it. LoD does it - though I use linked hardware servers instead of cloud instances.
Also, that wasn't the claim that Chris and Erin made. Their claim was "thousands of players on a single server". You do know the difference, right?
ps: You did notice the "in theory" part of that statement, right?
When I need the best unbiased SC news there is only two you can trust boredgamer and Montoya.
Post by: dsmart on November 09, 2018, 12:35:06 PM
https://massivelyop.com/2018/11/09/star-citizen-is-delaying-quite-a-bit-of-alpha-3-4-into-3-5-to-make-its-december-goal-including-female-toons/
Post by: jham on November 11, 2018, 09:58:22 AM
Post by: StanTheMan on November 11, 2018, 10:38:35 AM
Quote
DaGaimez's latest YouTube video called "STAR CITIZEN - I WAS WRONG!"He should have titled it - Star Citizen - I'm A Schlong.
Post by: jwh1701 on November 11, 2018, 06:52:43 PM
I don't know if I can post links, but in DaGaimez's latest YouTube video called "STAR CITIZEN - I WAS WRONG!", he informs us that CIG is going to have a "huge source of revenue" from the groundbreaking tech they've developed, which they can license to others. So listen up game developers! Get in on the ground floor and license that magic CIG tech!
Missed that video lol, he's not playing with a deck of full cards or he's rowing upstream with one oar.
Post by: dsmart on November 12, 2018, 04:50:40 AM
I don't know if I can post links, but in DaGaimez's latest YouTube video called "STAR CITIZEN - I WAS WRONG!", he informs us that CIG is going to have a "huge source of revenue" from the groundbreaking tech they've developed, which they can license to others. So listen up game developers! Get in on the ground floor and license that magic CIG tech!
You forgot to post the link to the video.
Post by: dsmart on November 12, 2018, 05:57:49 AM
Post by: jham on November 12, 2018, 07:16:39 AM
You forgot to post the link to the video.Thanks. Didn't know if my new account could post links. Here is the video to enjoy:
Post by: dsmart on November 13, 2018, 05:28:18 AM
Thanks. Didn't know if my new account could post links. Here is the video to enjoy:
The sad and funny thing about this is that he actually does believe that CIG has tech that other devs would want to actually license. This despite the fact that there's NOTHING in Star Engine that you couldn't have in Unity, Unreal, Lumberyard or any other game engine.
Post by: StanTheMan on November 13, 2018, 05:33:30 AM
Post by: dsmart on November 16, 2018, 05:03:21 AM
https://www.pcinvasion.com/star-citizen-free-week-next-friday/
"To celebrate seven years of farting around with a ton of money, Cloud Imperium Games is letting you play Star Citizen for free. Well, for a week, anyway. Starting November 23, you can download and play the game until November 30. The celebration coincides with the launch of Hurston, the game’s first planet, along with its city of Lorville.
Of course, Cloud Imperium doesn’t just want you to stand around your Hab making coffee. During the free week, every flyable ship in Star Citizen is yours to test for free in a 24-hour period with daily rotations. Each day showcases a different manufacturer, with its entire inventory available for a test run. There will be more than 80 ships to fly over the course of the week."
Post by: StanTheMan on November 16, 2018, 09:54:18 AM
:emot-lol:
https://www.pcinvasion.com/star-citizen-free-week-next-friday/
"To celebrate seven years of farting around with a ton of money, Cloud Imperium Games is letting you play Star Citizen for free. Well, for a week, anyway. Starting November 23, you can download and play the game until November 30. The celebration coincides with the launch of Hurston, the game’s first planet, along with its city of Lorville.
Of course, Cloud Imperium doesn’t just want you to stand around your Hab making coffee. During the free week, every flyable ship in Star Citizen is yours to test for free in a 24-hour period with daily rotations. Each day showcases a different manufacturer, with its entire inventory available for a test run. There will be more than 80 ships to fly over the course of the week."
Another Shill piece.
Post by: David-2 on November 16, 2018, 05:49:42 PM
"Each day showcases a different manufacturer, with its entire inventory available for a test run."
You know, if you were new to Star Citizen you might actually think this line meant that the SC universe was open for 3rd party game designers/modelers/programmers to come and and provide models you could use in the universe. And then each day some different 3rd party game studio would be showcased here so you could try their stuff.
Now that might very well be innovative. (*)
But it is not to be.
(*) I actually have no idea if any game already does this: let 3rd parties provide vehicles or characters or even gameplay or anything like that. Please let me know!
Post by: DemonInvestor on November 17, 2018, 03:11:22 AM
(*) I actually have no idea if any game already does this: let 3rd parties provide vehicles or characters or even gameplay or anything like that. Please let me know!
Haven't exactly looked at it, but i think Second Life offers something like that. Though i also don't know if that counts as a game - again i never tried it.
Post by: StanTheMan on November 17, 2018, 05:32:26 AM
Haven't exactly looked at it, but i think Second Life offers something like that. Though i also don't know if that counts as a game - again i never tried it.
People used to make, sell and use dildos in Second Life.
Not much chance of jpeg dildos in Star Citizen because they have more subtle ways of getting Backers to F^^k themselves.
(https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2940/34057344751_f67bd1da58_b.jpg)
Post by: jwh1701 on November 17, 2018, 08:22:47 AM
People used to make, sell and use dildos in Second Life.
Not much chance of jpeg dildos in Star Citizen because they have more subtle ways of getting Backers to F^^k themselves.
LOL, I have heard of second life but never even looked it over. Crazy to see people bringing every aspect of life into a game.
Post by: dsmart on November 17, 2018, 09:56:36 AM
"The project began life in 2012 as a Kickstarter campaign that pitched an ambitious spiritual successor to Chris Roberts' much-loved Wing Commander series.
Then, Star Citizen was due out in 2014. But as the money rolled in the scope of the project grew and this release window was pushed back. It's currently at the alpha stage of development, with the recently-released 3.3.0 patch currently keeping players occupied.
Eight years and $200m later, Star Citizen still doesn't have a final release date. Its current roadmap outlines plans to add various features to the game up to and including the 3.6.0 update, scheduled for some point during the second quarter of 2019."
Post by: DemonInvestor on November 18, 2018, 12:21:06 PM
People used to make, sell and use dildos in Second Life.
Not much chance of jpeg dildos in Star Citizen because they have more subtle ways of getting Backers to F^^k themselves.
Well... the Nexus Mod also features tons of such mods. So no surprise there, though when i last read an article about second life, i think it mentionend the possiblity of desinging vehicles and such....
Hehe, not only subtler ways. But ways a lot more benifitting CIG than external content creators ;)
Post by: dsmart on November 19, 2018, 06:32:45 AM
Post by: dsmart on November 20, 2018, 03:46:41 PM
https://massivelyop.com/2018/11/19/star-citizens-chris-roberts-no-one-is-attempting-to-do-what-we-are-doing/#comment-606876
Post by: jwh1701 on November 20, 2018, 07:11:28 PM
The shills in the thread are having a collective meltdown because I showed up and pissed on their parade :)
https://massivelyop.com/2018/11/19/star-citizens-chris-roberts-no-one-is-attempting-to-do-what-we-are-doing/#comment-606876
LOL sc guys are very easy to get going and there is no need to be mean or underhanded etc. Just provide an opposing opinion that is based on evidence, game-play, Chris's own words like landing on capitol ships in 2012, or Chris stating he and a small team made the demo and not crytek.
Post by: krylite on November 20, 2018, 09:31:33 PM
From the thread by 'Oleg'-shill, "The’ve done all the hardest parts," lol, what a riot.
Post by: Judge_dolly_OG on November 21, 2018, 12:34:21 AM
From the thread by 'Oleg'-shill, "The’ve done all the hardest parts," lol, what a riot.
Extracting 200mil from idiots was the hard part, and they have excelled in that regard, they even managed to plug the refund hole without much of a storm.
With server meshing now the new Jesus tech that is going to make the dream game possible they may be able to drag it out for a few more years, if they can show a bit of progress along the way, meanwhile pushing most content back from patch to patch as usual.
Can't wait for the bullshit that will be the S42 roadmap, remember, they totally had all the missions done guys? Don't forget to multiply the timescale by at least three to get somewhere in the ballpark for a realistic timescale.
Post by: dsmart on November 21, 2018, 07:32:32 AM
I find it hard believe that those few left who are still harping about proving Derek wrong are not cig shills or the last insane rich holdouts throwing their money away. CIG has been shown to be so underhanded they are not unlike fraudulent firms that shill every review site like bbb, ripoffreport, trustpilot, as they do on yt comments and elsewhere. While the majority of former backers know their formerly possible refunds are screwed now and try to silently sweep the shame of being a dupe under the rug. (others like FTR have their tantrums hoping their noise will somehow mask how idiotically duped & wrong they were (where they were also badmouthing on ED back then in favor of SC) )
From the thread by 'Oleg'-shill, "The’ve done all the hardest parts," lol, what a riot.
It's gaming; so it's not hard to imagine that there will be a bunch of toxic and delusional bad actors in the mix. What's particularly hilarious is that even in the face of IRREFUTABLE evidence, they still try to hold the line. Then when we lol at them, they get mad. :)
Post by: dsmart on November 21, 2018, 07:34:22 AM
Extracting 200mil from idiots was the hard part, and they have excelled in that regard, they even managed to plug the refund hole without much of a storm.
:emot-lol:
Quote
Can't wait for the bullshit that will be the S42 roadmap, remember, they totally had all the missions done guys? Don't forget to multiply the timescale by at least three to get somewhere in the ballpark for a realistic timescale.
Oh that one is going to be epic. I know precisely what they're going to do. They're going to post some public-facing rubbish, while keep the internal one. Just like they did with SC. Then, along the way, items from the internal one will slowly creep into the public one. It's so transparent what they're doing, that the dumb fucks still giving them money, deserve to be scammed.
Post by: StanTheMan on November 21, 2018, 10:17:03 AM
Extracting 200mil from idiots was the hard part, and they have excelled in that regard, they even managed to plug the refund hole without much of a storm.
With server meshing now the new Jesus tech that is going to make the dream game possible they may be able to drag it out for a few more years, if they can show a bit of progress along the way, meanwhile pushing most content back from patch to patch as usual.
Can't wait for the bullshit that will be the S42 roadmap, remember, they totally had all the missions done guys? Don't forget to multiply the timescale by at least three to get somewhere in the ballpark for a realistic timescale.
They just need a faked hack,, break in. disaster to use as an excuse .. SQ42 it has all gone.... then the backers will forgive them and maybe pay again...
Post by: dsmart on December 04, 2018, 11:49:46 AM
https://www.newsweek.com/star-citizen-ups-downs-funding-200-million-promise-kickstarter-335-1243114
Post by: jwh1701 on December 04, 2018, 04:53:56 PM
If you ever wondered why this is an absolute train-wreck, this should help you understand it. As one guy said, "It reads like parody, but it's not"
https://www.newsweek.com/star-citizen-ups-downs-funding-200-million-promise-kickstarter-335-1243114
Few issues in the article,
Inspired by the direct-to-consumer success of Minecraft, Chris and a small group of developers began working on a demo that would eventually give rise to gaming’s most successful crowdfunding venture.
Not Correct
Chris and the CIG team are enormously grateful for the overwhelming support. To them, $200 million is far more than a figure:
They are grateful alright not but with proper intentions towards backers.
and those at the top admit to being partially culpable for Star Citizen’s mixed reputation.
LOL Absolved Himself
Post by: dsmart on December 04, 2018, 05:31:11 PM
Post by: krylite on December 04, 2018, 06:34:43 PM
If you ever wondered why this is an absolute train-wreck, this should help you understand it. As one guy said, "It reads like parody, but it's not"
https://www.newsweek.com/star-citizen-ups-downs-funding-200-million-promise-kickstarter-335-1243114
What a farce of an article. Sounds like the author of the article was so ignorant of 'game development' (even basic common sense of a ponzi recognition would suffice) that he himself was in Erin's words, "someone who doesn't understand development or the industry" and just served up as a duped journalist by the brothers, or another paid-off shill.
And so much more stated in this shilled article was just off the wall hilarious or alternately disgusting to digest..
Post by: David-2 on December 04, 2018, 08:53:57 PM
If you ever wondered why this is an absolute train-wreck, this should help you understand it. As one guy said, "It reads like parody, but it's not"
https://www.newsweek.com/star-citizen-ups-downs-funding-200-million-promise-kickstarter-335-1243114
From CR:
Quote
…and [you should] have pride that you're running around with a 50-year-old character because you've managed to keep him alive long enough that he's gotten old. ... In Star Citizen, there’s no direct path to winning, and your character grows depending on how you develop them.
Now there's ordinary theory-crafting bullshit, and then there's great theory-crafting bullshit. But that, that's world-busting weapons-grade theory-crafting bullshit!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Post by: David-2 on December 04, 2018, 09:02:38 PM
Quote
I think most people don't realize that this is already more than a game. Of course it's a game first, but it has the potential to revolutionize social interaction. Implementing FOIP is one of the smartest moves I've ever observed a company to make. Using the (for a MMO necessary) framework for interaction opens a new world. Combine this with VR and you have the next killer app.
(Let's not sully this comment with snarky comments about exactly what kind of people are going to take advantage of this particular revolution in social interaction. I think the Japanese have a word for them (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori) but my understanding is that it isn't complimentary.)
Post by: Judge_dolly_OG on December 05, 2018, 12:37:18 AM
Post by: dsmart on December 05, 2018, 05:47:03 AM
What a farce of an article.
It's reads like a press release.
Post by: StanTheMan on December 05, 2018, 06:42:09 AM
They might as well be promoting Bernie Madoff.
Post by: Backer42 on December 12, 2018, 05:35:24 AM
If you ever wondered why this is an absolute train-wreck, this should help you understand it. As one guy said, "It reads like parody, but it's not"Looking at the author's credentials (https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisgroux/) there is absolutely nothing which qualifies him for reporting on video games. His whole professional life as a "writer" seems to center about producing monetized clickbait bullshit on social media.
https://www.newsweek.com/star-citizen-ups-downs-funding-200-million-promise-kickstarter-335-1243114
This is going to backfire on Newsweek.
Post by: dsmart on December 12, 2018, 07:10:23 AM
Post by: dsmart on December 12, 2018, 09:42:35 AM
FF to 25:20
https://guardfrequency.com/241/
Post by: dsmart on December 13, 2018, 01:08:30 PM
https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/how-star-citizen-raised-dollar7-million-dollars-in-seven-days/
Post by: dsmart on December 13, 2018, 01:42:04 PM
Post by: dsmart on December 14, 2018, 01:09:51 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/XnLxtwW.png)
Massively OP’s 2018 Awards: Worst MMO Business Model of 2018 (https://massivelyop.com/2018/12/14/massively-ops-2018-awards-worst-business-model/)
Post by: dsmart on December 14, 2018, 01:55:12 PM
Post by: jwh1701 on December 14, 2018, 02:01:54 PM
Post by: Spunky Munkee on December 14, 2018, 04:14:01 PM
Post by: Motto on December 14, 2018, 05:02:41 PM
Post by: DemonInvestor on December 16, 2018, 03:08:29 AM
Winning with a pre-alpha build. That actually is an achievement :laugh:
"Star Citizen, already record breaking!" :laugh:
Post by: dsmart on December 18, 2018, 12:04:49 PM
https://massivelyop.com/2018/12/18/choose-my-adventure-i-am-not-good-at-drug-running-in-star-citizen/
Post by: dsmart on December 18, 2018, 12:16:26 PM
fun starts @ 38:35
Post by: StanTheMan on December 19, 2018, 06:31:48 PM
https://guardfrequency.com/242/
fun starts @ 38:35
Really good listen..
What I didn't get on this was why CIG can only do this once as he says circa 48 mins in.
If CRobers and the other shareholders gave away shares to raise cash to pay off the Coutts loan then Coutts longer have CIG assets as collateral and CIG simply have more shareholders.
What stops Chris doing it all again to raise some cash in the future ?
Post by: Greggy_D on December 20, 2018, 06:39:52 AM
Post by: dsmart on December 20, 2018, 08:51:55 AM
What I didn't get on this was why CIG can only do this once as he says circa 48 mins in.
Because they can't keep creating new shares like that. Did you read my article? Because I explained it there.
Quote
If CRobers and the other shareholders gave away shares to raise cash to pay off the Coutts loan then Coutts longer have CIG assets as collateral and CIG simply have more shareholders.
What stops Chris doing it all again to raise some cash in the future ?
Why is that relevant?
Post by: dsmart on December 20, 2018, 12:57:13 PM
https://massivelyop.com/2018/12/20/star-citizen-atv-squadron-42s-roadmap-and-projected-2020-beta-and-cloud-imperiums-46m-private-investment/
Post by: jwh1701 on December 20, 2018, 02:06:21 PM
https://www.polygon.com/2018/12/20/18150456/star-citizen-squadron-42-single-player-release
https://massivelyop.com/2018/12/20/star-citizen-atv-squadron-42s-roadmap-and-projected-2020-beta-and-cloud-imperiums-46m-private-investment/
No matter the angle you look at CIG I cannot understand anyone wanting to give them a single penny. But looking back at theranos people continued fund them to the tune of 70billion with no working prototype.
Post by: Motto on December 20, 2018, 02:13:06 PM
Post by: jwh1701 on December 20, 2018, 02:18:35 PM
Clearly you don't understand game development.
LOL I sure don't but these articles provide me with great fun on reddit with the backers.
Post by: dsmart on December 20, 2018, 02:34:01 PM
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2018/12/20/billionaire-clive-calder-and-son-invest-46-million-in-studio-behind-crowdfunded-game-star-citizen/
Post by: McDrake on December 20, 2018, 02:37:44 PM
https://www.polygon.com/2018/12/20/18150456/star-citizen-squadron-42-single-player-release"“This investment helps secure our independence,” Roberts says. "
https://massivelyop.com/2018/12/20/star-citizen-atv-squadron-42s-roadmap-and-projected-2020-beta-and-cloud-imperiums-46m-private-investment/
Does it? How?
Oo
Post by: Judge_dolly_OG on December 20, 2018, 04:15:09 PM
"“This investment helps secure our independence,” Roberts says. "Dey giz uz money to set fire too.
Does it? How?
Oo
Post by: Meowz on December 20, 2018, 04:16:51 PM
Post by: N0mad on December 20, 2018, 04:36:12 PM
So with publish financials and actual investor oversight, is there now any chance that anything resembling a "finished product" will be released? Bias aside, for the project itself, is this actually a good thing?
The only way to deliver any sort of viable product is to remove Chris Roberts from any management oversight and put someone else in charge. They'd actually have to kick him out for that to happen though.
Post by: dsmart on December 20, 2018, 04:55:57 PM
So with publish financials and actual investor oversight, is there now any chance that anything resembling a "finished product" will be released? Bias aside, for the project itself, is this actually a good thing?
Don't be silly. Of course not. You missed the part where croberts was making it clear in his article that was still in control, the majority investor etc?
Post by: dsmart on December 22, 2018, 10:09:28 AM
https://bit-tech.net/news/gaming/pc/star-citizens-squadron-42-gets-a-cash-influx/1/
Post by: dsmart on December 24, 2018, 06:50:55 AM
Ah yeah, I remember back when Star Marine was going to be more lethal than Call Of Duty (https://wccftech.com/star-citizen-fps-gameplay-lethal-call-duty-stealthy-stuff/) :emot-lol:
Post by: dsmart on December 31, 2018, 05:59:45 AM
A different view on Clod Impervious financials:
https://www.space4games.com/en/star-citizen-en/star-citzen-squadron-42-financials/id-2826/
Post by: dsmart on December 31, 2018, 05:59:56 AM
"Malicious gossip has it that Roberts deliberately lied for marketing reasons. But would more than 360 employees at that time have carried plain lies with them, without any information having reached the public?"
This lot are shills...
When it suits their purpose they take CRoberts word as gospel and then the next they excuse his lies.
Yes right !
Post by: dsmart on December 31, 2018, 06:00:04 AM
I don't think they're shills: I think they honestly believe the story they're spinning. There are plenty of people in totalitarian countries who believe the truth told to them by their chairman, president, or generalissimo.
But if those numbers are the best they can do in support of their glorious leader, then things really are bad. To have a chance at breaking even, the whale milk must flow at the same rate AND Squadron 42 must outsell Mass Effect 1 by a 2:1 ratio. But, if you look at Destiny's launch, all they need is half of those sales at full price through the CIG website. Of course, Destiny was the #1 new franchise launch of all time and they made the overwhelming amount of sales at retail in the first week. But hey, that just means CIG won't have a huge marketing budget to weigh them down.
Seriously, if the best "everything's fine" take they can come up with involves the company adding more personnel year over year to remedy core deficiencies, a PC-only release generating 3 million full-price retail sales, and a community that hasn't grown significantly in 5 years continuing to pay for development, and all this just to keep afloat, well even the die-hard supporters have to know the ship is sinking.
Post by: dsmart on December 31, 2018, 06:00:11 AM
I never heard of "space4games.com". Doesn't CIG regularly create these kind of fake sites full of boilerplate just to shill for Star Citizen?
Let's check this with ICANN:Code: [Select]Domain Name: SPACE4GAMES.COM
Registry Domain ID: 2172563723_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.meshdigital.com
Registrar URL: http://www.meshdigital.com
Updated Date: 2018-09-10T13:57:30Z
Creation Date: 2017-10-10T13:46:11Z
Registry Expiry Date: 2019-10-10T13:46:11Z
Yep, created exactly at the date of CitizenCon 2017. Nobody "believes" anything here. It's just SEO fakery.
Post by: dsmart on December 31, 2018, 06:00:21 AM
All you really need to know about said article, is that funneling money away wouldn't show on any financial reporting that easily. So the whole Spiel about it showing that all money got into development, is just bullshit. And the crazy part is, you don't need to be a financial or accounting genius to know that. Be it office supplies being given to workers or the misuse of company owned cars for private vacations - not observable in such statements. And it's even more true to something not nessecarily adhering to standards like any-GAAP or IFRS.
Post by: dsmart on December 31, 2018, 06:03:14 AM
A different view on Clod Impervious financials:
https://www.space4games.com/en/star-citizen-en/star-citzen-squadron-42-financials/id-2826/
It's a shill site. Forget about ICANN, go here: https://www.patreon.com/space4games
ps: I relocated a bunch of posts because you put this in the wrong thread; and people kept responding to it. I tend to keep all shilling in its own thread :)
Post by: Judge_dolly_OG on December 31, 2018, 11:14:04 AM
It's a shill site. Forget about ICANN, go here: https://www.patreon.com/space4games
ps: I relocated a bunch of posts because you put this in the wrong thread; and people kept responding to it. I tend to keep all shilling in its own thread :)
Yeah, my bad.
Post by: dsmart on January 28, 2019, 06:17:54 PM
Post by: jwh1701 on January 28, 2019, 06:23:46 PM
:emot-lol: Those Red Bull shills are at it again. This one is so cringe-worthy, it beggars belief.
They should have offered services to magic leap, theranos or possible maybe they can help out f76 and shroud with some publicity.
Post by: Judge_dolly_OG on January 29, 2019, 12:58:53 AM
:emot-lol: Those Red Bull shills are at it again. This one is so cringe-worthy, it beggars belief.
Quote
This [3D printed model] came with a card, it said this is from me and 2 of my 3 sons, the oldest son didn't help...
The oldest son is probably like, why are you spending all the families money on this crap Dad? We didn't go in holiday again this year and Mom has left you. 😂😂😂😂😊
Post by: Slapmeandcallmegurl on January 29, 2019, 01:23:51 AM
:emot-lol: Those Red Bull shills are at it again. This one is so cringe-worthy, it beggars belief.
Careful Derek, your jealousy is showing!
Any press interest recently for LOD?
Post by: Beexoffel on January 29, 2019, 02:52:29 AM
Careful Derek, your jealousy is showing!No, it isn't.
Post by: Spunky Munkee on January 29, 2019, 04:00:19 AM
No, It's really simple. The game, the project is, was, and will continue to be a broken mess. The project a pile of lies and half truths with just enough lies to keep the foolish hopeful and enough truth to keep the rest from becoming too suspicious.
It's OK, we are patient. It will collapse upon it's own weight in due time. It's a shame that hundreds or thousands more will get sucked into the CIG malesrom before then without a clue about the truth of the matter. That is until the refund period is over, the neophites realize that all the tips,tricks and PC upgrades wont make this shitshow any better, and only then will they realize what fools they are.
I wonder if Serendipity is actually Shit Robbers?
Post by: dsmart on January 29, 2019, 04:25:11 AM
Careful Derek, your jealousy is showing!
This again? I can't even tell if you're being sarcastic or not.
Jealous of what exactly? I'm not the one who has to face the fact that $215m (+$46m) and 7 yrs later, I have neither completed nor delivered two games. Then, after having failed at that, while being unable to get any mainstream publisher or investor to give money (even as 2018 being the largest year in game industry funding (https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-01-29-games-investments-raised-usd5-7-billion-in-2018)), I had to sell my 10% of my company for bailout money.
Quote
Any press interest recently for LOD?
I tend to focus on development, as I don't find ANY value in fluff pieces, nor doing things to rip backers off. It's probably why I am still making games because if was doing those things, nobody would be buying my games, thus preventing me from making them over 30 yrs.
Your deflection and whataboutism don't faze me, and NOTHING you can say is going to make Star Citizen / SQ42 any less a train-wreck, nor redeem croberts from being a pretentious incompetent thieving lying hack.
Post by: Slapmeandcallmegurl on January 29, 2019, 04:30:40 AM
I mean, I'm fucking jealous of raking in thirty plus million dollars a year and I'm nowhere near the business of making video games.
Maybe I'm just a terrible person.
Post by: Beexoffel on January 29, 2019, 04:54:02 AM
Testing: is this post coming through?
Edit: great, this short remark comes through but not my proper post :cry:
Post by: Resin on January 29, 2019, 05:06:01 AM
Jealous of the attention, the funding, the fans queueing up to get into a convention for this 'broken mess' of a project, jealous of their ability to secure funding from investors and banking institutions, jealous of their ability to create something that hundreds of thousands of people are excited by, jealous of the thousands playing their game and having fun, jealous of streamers giving free advertising, jealous of the press taking an interest in what they've accomplished.
I mean, I'm fucking jealous of raking in thirty plus million dollars a year and I'm nowhere near the business of making video games.
Maybe I'm just a terrible person.
So... That’s pretty much same as being jealous of Bernie Madoff.
Post by: Slapmeandcallmegurl on January 29, 2019, 05:17:27 AM
So... That’s pretty much same as being jealous of Bernie Madoff.
Not really. I expect no return from any investment. I only need a couple of video games. They'll arrive in due course.
Post by: Motto on January 29, 2019, 05:39:37 AM
Post by: Slapmeandcallmegurl on January 29, 2019, 06:26:46 AM
Please gents, don't feed the troll.
Your last two replies to me have amounted to shouting, 'no you!', at me and then sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting gibberish.
Congratulations on looking less stupid than usual with this approach.
Post by: Motto on January 29, 2019, 08:04:56 AM
The only one looking stupid - and by stupid I mean really, really dumb - here, is you.
Post by: Slapmeandcallmegurl on January 29, 2019, 08:12:57 AM
Since it has all the signs you really are not trolling, I will follow my own advice right after my final reply...
The only one looking stupid - and by stupid I mean really, really dumb - here, is you.
Only time will tell who has been looking stupid but I will say, I haven't had any predictions destroyed by CIGs progress and continuing survival. You, however, have been wrong on many occasions already.
How would you define 'dumb'? Is it being wrong over and over again?
Post by: Beexoffel on January 29, 2019, 08:13:05 AM
Post by: Slapmeandcallmegurl on January 29, 2019, 09:36:42 AM
Slapme&c. does not really like or have confidence in Star Citizen and CIG.
I haven't played the alpha for about a year and I'm perfectly open to the possibility of a huge crash and burn for CIG. I don't believe the fanatics from either side are accurate with their predictions but I do like interacting with them.
I'm looking forward to playing the games when squadron is out and the PU has more content.
I'm just a middling kinda guy, entrenched in apathy.
Post by: dsmart on January 29, 2019, 10:15:55 AM
Jealous of the attention, the funding, the fans queueing up to get into a convention for this 'broken mess' of a project, jealous of their ability to secure funding from investors and banking institutions, jealous of their ability to create something that hundreds of thousands of people are excited by, jealous of the thousands playing their game and having fun, jealous of streamers giving free advertising, jealous of the press taking an interest in what they've accomplished.
Nope. Not my style. Plus, why would I be jealous of a project that I helped kick off right from the start. How does that work exactly? :emot-iiam:
If you're honest, you will agree that until they dragged me into this fiasco back in July 2015, I wasn't even paying ANY attention to the project - at all. I tend not to follow projects that I fund. I just wait to hear of they release or are dead. e.g. the recent ones I got my rewards for were SoTA and Bloom Labyrinth; both of which I posted about on Twitter when I was notified that my games were ready.
Quote
I mean, I'm fucking jealous of raking in thirty plus million dollars a year and I'm nowhere near the business of making video games.
Maybe I'm just a terrible person.
:emot-lol: Well there is a fine line between jealousy and envy
Post by: dsmart on January 29, 2019, 10:17:07 AM
My effort post just got eaten by something called Cleantalk.
Testing: is this post coming through?
Edit: great, this short remark comes through but not my proper post :cry:
Did you include some links, used suspicious words etc. CleanTalk is pretty aggressive with that. You could also have just used the back button and resubmitted. :(
Post by: dsmart on January 29, 2019, 10:33:20 AM
So... That’s pretty much same as being jealous of Bernie Madoff.
:emot-lol::emot-lol:
Post by: dsmart on January 29, 2019, 10:34:45 AM
but I will say, I haven't had any predictions destroyed by CIGs progress and continuing survival.
Wait! Is that because you have zero expectations? :emot-allears:
Post by: Beexoffel on January 29, 2019, 11:38:04 AM
I haven't played the alpha for about a year and I'm perfectly open to the possibility of a huge crash and burn for CIG. I don't believe the fanatics from either side are accurate with their predictions but I do like interacting with them.Good to hear we're both open to the possibility of a huge crash and burn for CIG. It will be both hilarious and sad.
I'm looking forward to playing the games when squadron is out and the PU has more content.
I'm just a middling kinda guy, entrenched in apathy.
I hope your enjoyment of SC will match how much you payed for it.
I'd say, if you're middle of the road, just let the fanatics be and watch the show. That's what I'm doing too.
Post by: Slapmeandcallmegurl on January 29, 2019, 11:53:29 AM
Nope. Not my style. Plus, why would I be jealous of a project that I helped kick off right from the start. How does that work exactly? :emot-iiam:
If you're honest, you will agree that until they dragged me into this fiasco back in July 2015, I wasn't even paying ANY attention to the project - at all. I tend not to follow projects that I fund. I just wait to hear of they release or are dead. e.g. the recent ones I got my rewards for were SoTA and Bloom Labyrinth; both of which I posted about on Twitter when I was notified that my games were ready.
:emot-lol: Well there is a fine line between jealousy and envy
I'd never heard of Chris or you before Star Citizen but I do remember reading your first blog about it all. It seemed to me at the time that you were using the success of SC to advertise your own product. That first blog had about half it's content describing LOD. They banned you shortly after for using their platform to promote your own product. Yes I know you never posted on their forums, but that's irrelevant. You were using what they had built for personal gain.
I think it would be hard for someone like yourself to not feel a little jealous of this success, especially after pooh poohing the return of Chris and David, over at Frontier, on twitter. Must have hurt a little to watch them both go from strength to strength.
I'm waiting on a few Kickstarters too, none of which I check up on. I also have a lifetime expansion pass thing for elite as well.
Wait! Is that because you have zero expectations? :emot-allears:
Not at all, I'm just not daft enough to pretend I know what's going to happen in the future.
Good to hear we're both open to the possibility of a huge crash and burn for CIG. It will be both hilarious and sad.
I hope your enjoyment of SC will match how much you payed for it.
I'd say, if you're middle of the road, just let the fanatics be and watch the show. That's what I'm doing too.
I spent a few hundred dollarpounds on a freelancer and an avenger. Then I made a voiceattack profile and shared it with the community. They demanded to give me some money for it, so now I'm easily concierge with other people's cash. That probably helps my apathetic standpoint. I do wonder how I'd be feeling if I'd spent thousands of my own cash...
Google 'voiceattack Anna', if you wish to know more. She's my little SC baby and I love her.
Post by: Beexoffel on January 29, 2019, 12:04:00 PM
I spend a volume hundred dollarpounds on a freelancer and an avenger. Then I made a voiceattack profile and shared it with the community. They demanded to give me some money for it, so now I'm easily concierge with other people's cash. That probably helps my apathetic standpoint. I do wonder how I'd be feeling if I'd spend thousands of my own cash...Sounds like you're getting creative fun out of this, good. Indeed a smooth voice!
Google 'voiceattack Anna', if you wish to know more. She's my little SC baby and I love her.
Maybe I assumed you to be too negative after your remark that Derek was jealous. That itself was an assumption. Such things create tension in the forum. I'll try to avoid that and use these pages just as a source of info.
Did you include some links, used suspicious words etc. CleanTalk is pretty aggressive with that. You could also have just used the back button and resubmitted. :(I can sometimes get around it by using 'reply' in stead of 'quote'. But not always, just did so and got on the cleantalk page. Returned to the edit page, resubmitted, got a 'you already posted' message.
Now I'm on a returning 'you post to quickly' message because of my various attempts. Adblocker turned of now too, because it also talked about enabling javascript.
Maybe I can modify this existing post that got through earlier.
Post by: Spunky Munkee on January 29, 2019, 12:57:29 PM
Post by: Slapmeandcallmegurl on January 29, 2019, 01:28:14 PM
Sounds like you're getting creative fun out of this, good. Indeed a smooth voice!
Maybe I assumed you to be too negative after your remark that Derek was jealous. That itself was an assumption. Such things create tension in the forum. I'll try to avoid that and use these pages just as a source of info.
I had hundreds of hours of 'fun' trying to create the logic with voiceattack, I'm very bad at it but it gave me a tiny glimpse of the difficulties of 'coding', my first attempt at anything even remotely related. I suffered many unexpected delays, the experience may have softened my assessment of CIGs own difficulties.
The Anna thread on the old forums is one of the biggest you'll find. It was a huge joint effort to be honest, people would suggest things, I'd go away and try to make it happen. It was a great experience. You can find out all about me and my way of behaving in that thread, it's hundreds of pages long mind, if you really want to, feel free.
Anyway, no-one cares, sorry, I reckon it really did soften my reaction to delays from CIG though, and any other game development. Something tells me that making a game is, just a tiny bit, more complicated than creating logic for a VA profile.
Just a tiny bit.
Post by: Resin on January 29, 2019, 01:41:41 PM
And now when you realise that do you think it was good decision to promise features which the game engine doesn’t support or aren’t designed to do and even beyond to features which require technology that doesn’t exist and you don’t have the required expertise to build (at least in reasonable time).
Anyway, no-one cares, sorry, I reckon it really did soften my reaction to delays from CIG though, and any other game development. Something tells me that making a game is, just a tiny bit, more complicated than creating logic for a VA profile.
Just a tiny bit.
Let’s not go to the fact that the leader of the project doesn’t have even a clue how modern software development works. Naturally, if you have been out of the loop couple decades.
Thousand player battles and motherships, for crying out loud...
Post by: dsmart on January 29, 2019, 01:41:54 PM
It seemed to me at the time that you were using the success of SC to advertise your own product.
False.
Repeating their nonsense doesn't make it true
Quote
That first blog had about half it's content describing LOD.
False.
Interstellar Citizens (http://www.dereksmart.com/2015/07/interstellar-citizens/) blog contained a contextual post about LoD and Elite Dangerous as a comparison to what SC was trying to achieve and why I stated they would fail. I was right. That aside from the fact that the point being made there was that you wouldn't ask a baker to opine on brain surgery; even though you don't need to be a cook to know that the food tastes like shit.
Quote
They banned you shortly after for using their platform to promote your own product.
False.
There was nothing to "ban". They refunded me, thus closing my account. That's what happens with everyone who had their accounts closed.
Quote
Yes I know you never posted on their forums, but that's irrelevant.
Of course it's irrelevant when you fail to make the point. How convenient.
Quote
You were using what they had built for personal gain.
I can only :emot-lol: at that particular bit of nonsense. What exactly did they "build"? And how did I "gain"?
Quote
I think it would be hard for someone like yourself to not feel a little jealous of this success, especially
"someone like yourself"? You don't know anything about me. And there is no "success". Outside of your fanboi bubble, the project is widely regarded an abysmal FAILURE of epic proportions.
Quote
after pooh poohing the return of Chris and David, over at Frontier, on twitter. Must have hurt a little to watch them both go from strength to strength.
False
David and I go way back, and we even chat from time to time. Again, keep pulling straws and clutching your pearls; eventually - if you're lucky - something will stick.
Also, I didn't back ED because it wasn't his first attempt, and I didn't think he'd pull it off that time. Though he did end up scaling back promises - as I said would happen - he did end up releasing a hugely successful game. And he did it with about $11m (https://www.pcgamer.com/elite-dangerous-crowdfunding-covered-less-than-one-quarter-of-its-total-cost-creator-says/) (of which less than $2m came from crowd-funding). And that game is leap years ahead of anything a $225m train-wreck will ever produce.
Post by: dsmart on January 30, 2019, 06:17:02 PM
https://www.polygon.com/2019/1/28/18197892/star-citizen-50-player-battle-video-rexzilla
Post by: jwh1701 on January 30, 2019, 06:36:27 PM
Hello darkness my old friend...
https://www.polygon.com/2019/1/28/18197892/star-citizen-50-player-battle-video-rexzilla
He's spending some money and doing a lot of work to make these battles look feasible with the current build.
Post by: StanTheMan on January 30, 2019, 08:36:14 PM
He's spending some money and doing a lot of work to make these battles look feasible with the current build.
And he will move on...like he did before
Post by: dsmart on January 31, 2019, 05:05:23 AM
He's spending some money and doing a lot of work to make these battles look feasible with the current build.
He could just be playing Planetside2 instead :shrug:
Post by: Slapmeandcallmegurl on January 31, 2019, 06:14:39 AM
False.
Repeating their nonsense doesn't make it true
It's not false. It can't be false. It's how I felt and how it appeared to me at the time. You don't get to tell me how I felt.
Quote
False.
Interstellar Citizens (http://www.dereksmart.com/2015/07/interstellar-citizens/) blog contained a contextual post about LoD and Elite Dangerous as a comparison to what SC was trying to achieve and why I stated they would fail. I was right. That aside from the fact that the point being made there was that you wouldn't ask a baker to opine on brain surgery; even though you don't need to be a cook to know that the food tastes like shit.
It's not false. You spend a lot of words describing your game. To me at the time it was like reading an advert for LOD.
Quote
False.
There was nothing to "ban". They refunded me, thus closing my account. That's what happens with everyone who had their accounts closed.
Semantics. They closed your account because they thought you were using their platform to publicise your game. I agreed with that assessment.
Quote
Of course it's irrelevant when you fail to make the point. How convenient.
The point is that I've seen you crying about this before now, how they refunded you because you'd broken their ToS but you'd never posted on their forums. It's irrelevant if you had or not. You used the fact that SC was blowing up in an attempt to sell copies of LOD. That's how it looked to me. That's how it looked to CIG.
Quote
I can only :emot-lol: at that particular bit of nonsense. What exactly did they "build"? And how did I "gain"?
The built an incredibly popular game concept and monetised pre orders on a scale never seen before. They built a large community of excited space game nerds. They built interest and excitement for what they were planning.
I should have said 'attempted to gain' perhaps, as the blog was little more than an advert for LOD. You, attempting to grab yourself some of the vast riches pouring into CIGs coffers by showing the vast number of people interested in SC that your game was an alternative.
That's how I saw it. Others too. Seemed very obvious to me to be honest.
Quote
"someone like yourself"? You don't know anything about me. And there is no "success". Outside of your fanboi bubble, the project is widely regarded an abysmal FAILURE of epic proportions.
I know you're a game developer who makes space games. Someone who's struggled to create a significant fan base, similar to the one giving Chris all of their disposable income. The success I talk about is funding. Money. Goodwill. Excitement. A community. The game may be taking its time but to suggest that SC isn't a huge success is monumental idiocy. Building a company that's worth over 450 million dollars and with an income of 30+ million dollars a year in just a few years seems like a successful venture to me.
Quote
False
David and I go way back, and we even chat from time to time. Again, keep pulling straws and clutching your pearls; eventually - if you're lucky - something will stick.
Also, I didn't back ED because it wasn't his first attempt, and I didn't think he'd pull it off that time. Though he did end up scaling back promises - as I said would happen - he did end up releasing a hugely successful game. And he did it with about $11m (https://www.pcgamer.com/elite-dangerous-crowdfunding-covered-less-than-one-quarter-of-its-total-cost-creator-says/) (of which less than $2m came from crowd-funding). And that game is leap years ahead of anything a $225m train-wreck will ever produce.
Not false. You called both Chris and David dinosaurs with very little chance of succeeding with their new games. Can't be arsed getting a link but we both know what I'm talking about.
If memory serves you said they were out of touch with gaming after being away for so long.
I guess you were horribly wrong on both counts. The pair of them have done ok with their new space games I reckon...
Post by: Motto on January 31, 2019, 10:47:24 AM
Post by: Greggy_D on January 31, 2019, 02:04:41 PM
Post by: Resin on January 31, 2019, 02:11:47 PM
If memory serves you said they were out of touch with gaming after being away for so long.
I guess you were horribly wrong on both counts. The pair of them have done ok with their new space games I reckon...
Well, it’s pretty undisputable that at least Chris is out of touch with gaming when you look the journey of SC and where they are now with over 200M spent.
Or he is just incompetent in managing projects. I suspect both.
Post by: Slapmeandcallmegurl on February 01, 2019, 07:24:20 AM
Well, it’s pretty undisputable that at least Chris is out of touch with gaming when you look the journey of SC and where they are now with over 200M spent.
Or he is just incompetent in managing projects. I suspect both.
I wouldn't dispute that the project management could have been better but building a large company, new technology and attempting to take gaming forward isn't easy, otherwise everyone would do it.
Looks like the bumpiest roads are traversed now, time will tell how it all shakes down. I'm sure the ride will continue to be entertaining though, whatever happens
Post by: Resin on February 01, 2019, 08:48:09 AM
Looks like the bumpiest roads are traversed now, time will tell how it all shakes down. I'm sure the ride will continue to be entertaining though, whatever happens
What makes you think that? They are still nowhere near to have even the necessary background tech in place. Unless it’s now OK for them to not deliver the game they promised but MVP 50 player per server instanced game and don’t even dream about capital ship gameplay. Unless fidelity is greatly reduced.
Post by: Motto on February 01, 2019, 09:27:58 AM
Post by: dsmart on February 01, 2019, 11:24:29 AM
Don't feed the troll
:emot-thumbsup:
Post by: dsmart on February 01, 2019, 11:26:46 AM
**snipped** a slew of lies-ridden drivel
:emot-ughh:
Post by: dsmart on February 01, 2019, 11:27:17 AM
Well, it’s pretty undisputable that at least Chris is out of touch with gaming when you look the journey of SC and where they are now with over 200M spent.
Or he is just incompetent in managing projects. I suspect both.
:emot-iceburn:
Post by: krylite on February 10, 2019, 05:11:52 AM
I guess you were horribly wrong on both counts. The pair of them have done ok with their new space games I reckon...
The "pair" of them? They couldn't be more different, obviously. And it's a misnomer to have said Braben was out of touch with gaming. While there were no more Elite's after FFE , he was still ceo of Frontier which went on to make Kinectimals, Rollercoaster Tycoon 3, etc. during the interim before dev was started on ED. Frontier wasn't the small-cap industry breakthrough it is today, but they were humbly managing their projects and business professionally as always.
Post by: dsmart on February 12, 2019, 03:43:06 PM
https://guardfrequency.com/247/
Post by: dsmart on February 26, 2019, 03:38:38 PM
https://gametruth.com/satire/star-citizen-becomes-non-profit-religion-announces-tithe-packages-and-star-aliens/
Post by: Beexoffel on February 26, 2019, 04:19:12 PM
http://www.tentonhammer.com/columns/star-citizen-s-2-500-ship-of-dreams
Post by: Backer42 on February 27, 2019, 05:03:58 PM
Piner, now there's a name I haven't heard in a long time. His articles in I think 2014 were the first to put me on the track of this hilarity.The other forum linked me to this reaction thread: https://anonym.to/https://forums.starcitizenbase.com/topic/13428-ten-ton-hammer-criticizing-star-citizen/
http://www.tentonhammer.com/columns/star-citizen-s-2-500-ship-of-dreams
Just hover the pointer on the avatars and watch how many of those advocates defending SC against this article left already. It's a ghost town. Also interesting to see that join and leave dates center around certain CIG events/sales and how long the average stay is.
That "community" is dead before the release. CI not G is in big trouble.
Post by: dsmart on February 27, 2019, 05:23:21 PM
Post by: Backer42 on February 28, 2019, 06:40:24 PM
https://anonym.to/https://forums.starcitizenbase.com/topic/587-how-much-did-you-spend/
Quote from: EllisDee
Love all of Chris Roberts games & so glad we made it to over 6 million, congratulations to all. I went a bit overboard on my c/c & got the following: The Man Come Fly With Me Aurora 300i Hornet Freelancer Cutlass Package Captured Vanduul Fighter Retaliator Heavy Bomber Drake Interplanetary Caterpillar MISC Starfarer Tanker Anvil Gladiator Bomber ORIGIN M50 Interceptor Idris Corvette Electro Skin Military Skin Exploration Skin False Colors Skin Hardback bound 42 page Book “Engineering Manual for Modders” Hardback bound 42 Page Book “Squadron 42 Manual” Total: $3415 Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who contributed, no matter how much, without you we wouldn't of made so much! Now.... what the hell am I going to do for the next 2 years, oh yes, get another job & pay of my c/c lolFirst visit: Oct 22, 2012
Last visit: Oct 27, 2015
Now think about all these JPEGs and when they made it into the broken techdemo... The madness started right in 2012!
Post by: Slapmeandcallmegurl on March 05, 2019, 04:22:07 AM
The whole project is dead. Only a few clowns wallowing in apathy remain now. They plan on going down with the ship apparently.
Could you define 'dead' for me please? Looks like five million plus in funding so far this year and a new update on it's way, Reddit busy, forums busy, development continues on Squadron...
Looks very much alive to me.
Post by: Beexoffel on March 05, 2019, 04:27:31 AM
Throwing money at stuck projects is common.
The progress on defined goals is shown here:
https://starcitizentracker.github.io/
Almost horizontal since early 2015. That's when the infamous 'ELE' took place.
Post by: Slapmeandcallmegurl on March 05, 2019, 04:31:19 AM
Still slow of course, but dead? Nah.
Post by: Beexoffel on March 05, 2019, 04:43:04 AM
Graphics are being produced at a hugely elevated cost, and somehow some people keep supporting that.
It's more of a status-quo than development towards a goal.
Post by: Motto on March 05, 2019, 05:15:05 AM
Post by: Slapmeandcallmegurl on March 05, 2019, 05:47:30 AM
That's one of the novelties of Star Citizen: it's not a game nor a software project according to any convention, but new stuff comes out and a fair number of people are having fun with it.
Graphics are being produced at a hugely elevated cost, and somehow some people keep supporting that.
It's more of a status-quo than development towards a goal.
Ha ha, nicely put. It's certainly fascinating to watch. It's going to be very interesting to see how Squadron is received when they finally release it. I honestly think it's going to be somewhere a little above mediocre with some people screaming about it's ground breaking magnificence and others chanting their disgust at it's faecal aroma.
The range of review scores will be impressive I feel, as most will have their minds made up already whether they like it or not! The metacritic score will be useless as zealots and haters will give 10's and 0's regardless of merits. Maybe the journalist metacritic will be the most accurate account. Suppose I'll just decide for myself.
I wonder if they'll be able to finish it as they want before the cash runs out?
Post by: Beexoffel on March 05, 2019, 07:32:36 AM
Don't feed the troll.OK then, I'll do something else.
Ha ha, nicely put. It's certainly fascinating to watch. It's going to be very interesting to see how Squadron is received when they finally release it.You sound like a moderate Citizen, not a white knight but someone with some idea of the various pros and cons of this pro- or con-scheme.
I'd like to invite you to join Something Awful and post your views in this thread, https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3800238&pagenumber=5921#lastpost .
Given a gentle introduction, the Goons usually accept differing views with amused curiosity.
An offering of animal pics would certainly smooth your welcome.
Post by: Slapmeandcallmegurl on March 05, 2019, 07:47:39 AM
Does MOMA still post there? I hope his family is dead :grin:
Post by: Beexoffel on March 05, 2019, 07:56:59 AM
I haven't read the SA thread for quite some time but I always found it funny. The regulars in there certainly know where their funny bones are located! Paying for access to a forum just doesn't sit well with me though so thank you, but no thank you.MOMA is rather absent lately, unfortunately. I certainly hope his family is well!
Does MOMA still post there? I hope his family is dead :grin:
I'm not sure how I can pay :tenbux: and get you access.
It sure gave me the most online entertainment I ever got out of $10.
Post by: dsmart on March 05, 2019, 12:17:23 PM
Could you define 'dead' for me please? Looks like five million plus in funding so far this year and a new update on it's way, Reddit busy, forums busy, development continues on Squadron...
Looks very much alive to me.
Nope. Too easy. :emot-allears:
Post by: dsmart on March 05, 2019, 12:18:42 PM
Playing the game would show some reasonably large differences between 4 years ago and now. A graph of development milestones might not be very impressive but the game experience has changed enormously in that time.
I don't think anyone is claiming that there was no progress since 2012. Not even sure why you thought that was something of an issue.
Quote
Still slow of course, but dead? Nah.
Yeah it's dead, bro.
Post by: Slapmeandcallmegurl on March 05, 2019, 12:41:47 PM
Post by: Greggy_D on March 05, 2019, 03:33:35 PM
Don't feed the troll.
This
Post by: krylite on March 21, 2019, 01:25:39 PM
Post by: Judge_dolly_OG on April 19, 2019, 12:43:56 AM
Newsweek shilling.
Post by: dsmart on April 19, 2019, 08:15:01 AM
https://www.newsweek.com/star-citizen-create-universe-fans-35-release-date-1399686?fbclid=IwAR26BF-G2PFDQM1BE8lGNiBL6RecU8S8G6fOX_E49TFsvN1pYS2UCeoHBKc
Newsweek shilling.
Yeah, we were laughing at that yesterday. It's incredible.
Post by: wiser3754 on April 19, 2019, 05:03:15 PM
Post by: dsmart on April 23, 2019, 06:48:22 AM
https://www.newsweek.com/star-citizen-director-chris-roberts-reveal-how-fix-anthem-1401588
Post by: jham on April 23, 2019, 07:40:30 AM
Post by: DemonInvestor on April 23, 2019, 08:38:50 AM
Post by: StanTheMan on April 27, 2019, 09:42:39 AM
Yeah, nothing suspicious about yet another Newsweek article, within a span of days. At all.
https://www.newsweek.com/star-citizen-director-chris-roberts-reveal-how-fix-anthem-1401588
How does this sort of thing work ?
Post by: Judge_dolly_OG on May 01, 2019, 07:37:32 AM
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2019/05/01/exclusive-the-saga-of-star-citizen-a-video-game-that-raised-300-millionbut-may-never-be-ready-to-play/#77e1f4215ac9
Did they not get the cheque?
Post by: Motto on May 01, 2019, 08:25:15 AM
Post by: dsmart on May 01, 2019, 03:55:07 PM
Post by: krylite on May 02, 2019, 03:49:54 AM
Yeah that article is amazing. I have a short Twitter thread (https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/1123628749264756736) about it.
When I read the article, most of it just seemed like a fine recap where most all the points were already covered by the blogs and this forum. I guess it's good that Forbes as a major national fiscal reporting magazine has finally covered this and opened the lid of the true story to the public. Fat chance CIG/CR&SG can intimidate them to retract it like they did with the earlier Kotaku(?) article five years ago.
Yeah, the Newsweek nonsense article of CR opining on Anthem is like much of today's biased mainstream news, a joke or entertainment. Fortunately, Forbes still deals with financial reporting and their implications factually, as they did of CIG. Another good sign time is finally running out for this ponzi fiasco mess.
Per the twitter comments, I'm leaning to where CR (SG too) may get some kind of charges, if not jail time in the end. The siphoning and waste of millions has been too outrageous. And looking forward to the hidden stashes and ill-gotten luxury crap marked for clawback exposed and detailed in the future "American Greed" episode.
Post by: StanTheMan on May 02, 2019, 06:45:13 AM
Forbes article has a bit of a different opinion to Newsweek lol.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2019/05/01/exclusive-the-saga-of-star-citizen-a-video-game-that-raised-300-millionbut-may-never-be-ready-to-play/#77e1f4215ac9
Did they not get the cheque?
These publications never like to accept their own part in hyping the games and whilst the article is Ok saying it isn't fraud is simplistic and cowardly.
Some comment on a French site re the Forbes article
https://www.millenium.org/news/331263.html (https://www.millenium.org/news/331263.html)
Post by: dsmart on May 02, 2019, 10:01:04 AM
Star Citizen fans are frantically hammering the unsub button. :emot-lol:
Post by: dsmart on May 02, 2019, 10:02:30 AM
When I read the article, most of it just seemed like a fine recap where most all the points were already covered by the blogs and this forum. I guess it's good that Forbes as a major national fiscal reporting magazine has finally covered this and opened the lid of the true story to the public. Fat chance CIG/CR&SG can intimidate them to retract it like they did with the earlier Kotaku(?) article five years ago.
Yeah, the Newsweek nonsense article of CR opining on Anthem is like much of today's biased mainstream news, a joke or entertainment. Fortunately, Forbes still deals with financial reporting and their implications factually, as they did of CIG. Another good sign time is finally running out for this ponzi fiasco mess.
Per the twitter comments, I'm leaning to where CR (SG too) may get some kind of charges, if not jail time in the end. The siphoning and waste of millions has been too outrageous. And looking forward to the hidden stashes and ill-gotten luxury crap marked for clawback exposed and detailed in the future "American Greed" episode.
Yeah, I remember back in 2015 when The Escapist did their article similar to this one, and not even as in-depth.
Post by: StanTheMan on May 02, 2019, 05:03:46 PM
ObsidianAnt, a huge Star Citizen and space combat fan, has a video up talking about the Forbes article by Mat tRyan Perez
Star Citizen fans are frantically hammering the unsub button. :emot-lol:
Shitizens...oh we love em...
In the comments , some guy with years in the industry ....
Quote
Hello. OK so i'm gonna give a 10000000 % personal opinion here: I'm working in the game industry as a Mocap Tech / Specialist in one of the biggest game company in the world (not to name it) and in my almost 7 years that I've been working here, I have worked on 22 released games (and still working on unannounced games as I speak).
Seeing CIG struggelling with their animations (I will only speak of what I know about), that kind of scares me a bit for the release of the game. They have been working on female animations for what, 2-3 years now and it just came out. In the last 2-3 Years I had the time to release multipple tripple A games that contains tons of animaions. I never understood their approach on the mocap sessions for the gameplay (Navigations). Here, when we need gameplay animations, we shoot both genders at the same time or so, meaning that we get all we need from the start.
CIG chose to Retarget their male animations to the female rig, which is wayyyyyyyy more work than simply suiting up an actress, clean the data (tracking) and retarget the data on a female rig. You get all the proper animations, especially for the hips compared to a male hip subtile movement. Also, you have less bulkyness to fix in your animations. To me, it's a total waste of time for the employees and in the end, a loss of money, a lot of money.
In the end the game looks good but judging of what I know (animation wise), I fear all the departments are managed the same way, which might be bad for the project itself in the long term.
Again, that was my opinion, maybe i'm completly worng on their management, I'm not working there but from what I see here, I'm sceptic of the management, even more when I see stuff being reported over and over again.
But after the Shitizens descend with their idiocies at least someone defends him..
Quote
I love how people who don’t even work in the industry are trying to tell a guy who actually physically works in game development how game development works.
You guys are making fools of yourselves. You have no expertise and you’re trying to tell an expert how to do his job.
Sound familiar ?
Post by: dsmart on May 03, 2019, 06:00:41 AM
Post by: wiser3754 on May 03, 2019, 01:36:53 PM
Post by: dsmart on May 06, 2019, 07:54:42 AM
https://metro.co.uk/2019/05/06/star-citizen-incompetence-mismanagement-galactic-scale-claims-report-9418989/
https://www.nag.co.za/2019/05/06/star-citizen-is-in-a-lot-of-trouble-if-you-didnt-know-that-already/
https://screenrant.com/star-citizen-trouble-damning-report/
https://www.vg247.com/2019/05/05/star-citizen-burned-through-crowdfunded-240m/
https://playcrazygame.com/2019/05/04/star-citizen-development-problems-due-to-poor-money-management/
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-05-03-star-citizen-development-reportedly-troubled-by-mishandled-money-micromanagement
https://sparkchronicles.com/star-citizen-funding-collected-so-far-almost-exhausted/
https://www.gametruth.com/editorials/the-cult-of-star-citizen-heralded-our-current-dystopian-internet/
https://techraptor.net/content/star-citizens-complaints-to-federal-trade-commission-are-rooted-in-development-mismanagement
https://www.denofgeek.com/us/games/star-citizen/280875/star-citizen-report-money-chris-roberts-scam
https://variety.com/2019/gaming/news/star-citizen-chaotic-report-1203205859/
https://www.techspot.com/news/79953-report-claims-star-citizen-development-trouble-most-288.html
https://www.gamepur.com/news/40327-star-citizen-development-update-worrying.html
Post by: Judge_dolly_OG on May 06, 2019, 08:31:41 AM
The Forbes Fallout (https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2019/05/01/exclusive-the-saga-of-star-citizen-a-video-game-that-raised-300-millionbut-may-never-be-ready-to-play/#10d41a1a5ac9)
https://metro.co.uk/2019/05/06/star-citizen-incompetence-mismanagement-galactic-scale-claims-report-9418989/
https://www.nag.co.za/2019/05/06/star-citizen-is-in-a-lot-of-trouble-if-you-didnt-know-that-already/
https://screenrant.com/star-citizen-trouble-damning-report/
https://www.vg247.com/2019/05/05/star-citizen-burned-through-crowdfunded-240m/
https://playcrazygame.com/2019/05/04/star-citizen-development-problems-due-to-poor-money-management/
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-05-03-star-citizen-development-reportedly-troubled-by-mishandled-money-micromanagement
https://sparkchronicles.com/star-citizen-funding-collected-so-far-almost-exhausted/
https://www.gametruth.com/editorials/the-cult-of-star-citizen-heralded-our-current-dystopian-internet/
https://techraptor.net/content/star-citizens-complaints-to-federal-trade-commission-are-rooted-in-development-mismanagement
https://www.denofgeek.com/us/games/star-citizen/280875/star-citizen-report-money-chris-roberts-scam
https://variety.com/2019/gaming/news/star-citizen-chaotic-report-1203205859/
https://www.techspot.com/news/79953-report-claims-star-citizen-development-trouble-most-288.html
https://www.gamepur.com/news/40327-star-citizen-development-update-worrying.html
Haha it's even in the Metro! Hopefully it will make the print version this week.
Post by: dsmart on May 06, 2019, 09:33:21 AM
Haha it's even in the Metro! Hopefully it will make the print version this week.
Because it’s Forbes and all those cowards who wouldn’t dare print Derek Smart’s propaganda FUD, suddenly have a reason to jump on the bandwagon of a mainstream publication posting something we already knew, but which required the likes of Forbes to give credibility to.
Post by: Motto on May 06, 2019, 09:36:03 AM
Post by: Judge_dolly_OG on May 06, 2019, 09:50:24 AM
Because it’s Forbes and all those cowards who wouldn’t dare print Derek Smart’s propaganda FUD, suddenly have a reason to jump on the bandwagon of a mainstream publication posting something we already knew, but which required the likes of Forbes to give credibility to.
Yeah, and investigation and verifying sources claims is effort, easier to just write what Forbes have said. You may have known this already but Forbes have had to do some work to make sure they don't get sued by CIG by publishing this.
I don't doubt a lot of this is based on what you and others have already uncovered, but interesting they found the stuff out about Sandi that hasn't been made public knowledge by the "fudsters". I suppose this sort of stuff will be well known by those closer to the project though.
Post by: dsmart on May 06, 2019, 10:11:05 AM
Has Joe Blobers already been spotted on all those forums?
Yup.
"Poor blobbers. There are sites creeping up for which he probably doesn't even have accounts." :emot-lol:
Post by: dsmart on May 06, 2019, 10:11:58 AM
The Forbes Fallout (https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2019/05/01/exclusive-the-saga-of-star-citizen-a-video-game-that-raised-300-millionbut-may-never-be-ready-to-play/#10d41a1a5ac9)
https://metro.co.uk/2019/05/06/star-citizen-incompetence-mismanagement-galactic-scale-claims-report-9418989/
https://www.nag.co.za/2019/05/06/star-citizen-is-in-a-lot-of-trouble-if-you-didnt-know-that-already/
https://screenrant.com/star-citizen-trouble-damning-report/
https://www.vg247.com/2019/05/05/star-citizen-burned-through-crowdfunded-240m/
https://playcrazygame.com/2019/05/04/star-citizen-development-problems-due-to-poor-money-management/
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-05-03-star-citizen-development-reportedly-troubled-by-mishandled-money-micromanagement
https://sparkchronicles.com/star-citizen-funding-collected-so-far-almost-exhausted/
https://www.gametruth.com/editorials/the-cult-of-star-citizen-heralded-our-current-dystopian-internet/
https://techraptor.net/content/star-citizens-complaints-to-federal-trade-commission-are-rooted-in-development-mismanagement
https://www.denofgeek.com/us/games/star-citizen/280875/star-citizen-report-money-chris-roberts-scam
https://variety.com/2019/gaming/news/star-citizen-chaotic-report-1203205859/
https://www.techspot.com/news/79953-report-claims-star-citizen-development-trouble-most-288.html
https://www.gamepur.com/news/40327-star-citizen-development-update-worrying.html
https://gamerant.com/star-citizen-budget-development/
https://www.altchar.com/games-news/595728/star-citizen-funding-almost-depleted-with-no-final-product
Post by: dsmart on May 06, 2019, 11:45:22 AM
https://gamerant.com/star-citizen-budget-development/
https://www.altchar.com/games-news/595728/star-citizen-funding-almost-depleted-with-no-final-product
:emot-lol:
Screen wrote two articles, 24hrs apart
https://screenrant.com/star-citizen-development-problems-money-focus/
Post by: StanTheMan on May 06, 2019, 12:53:37 PM
https://www.gametruth.com/editorials/the-cult-of-star-citizen-heralded-our-current-dystopian-internet/
As pulled out by 1 Mr Smart.
Post by: dsmart on May 06, 2019, 04:57:28 PM
Post by: dsmart on May 07, 2019, 07:59:13 AM
https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/73448/umfrage/auflage-der-ueberregionalen-tageszeitungen/
Followed by our German shills, who didn't even mention the Forbes article - yet pointing to their 2018 "Everything is OK!" shill article
https://www.gamestar.de/artikel/star-citizen-release-squadron-42,3343684.html
Post by: Judge_dolly_OG on May 07, 2019, 08:38:10 AM
The largest German mag weighs in
https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/73448/umfrage/auflage-der-ueberregionalen-tageszeitungen/
Followed by our German shills, who didn't even mention the Forbes article - yet pointing to their 2018 "Everything is OK!" shill article
https://www.gamestar.de/artikel/star-citizen-release-squadron-42,3343684.html
The major newspaper Bild has also picked it up
https://www.bild.de/spiele/spiele-news/spiele-news/star-citizen-steht-das-300-millionen-spiel-vor-dem-aus-61711806.bild.html
Post by: StanTheMan on May 07, 2019, 10:27:35 AM
They love quoting the Backer/Fan number as though it is fact though.
Post by: dsmart on May 07, 2019, 12:13:19 PM
https://www.pcinvasion.com/star-citizen-its-time-to-let-development-run-its-course
https://nichegamer.com/2019/05/07/star-citizen-burned-most-of-their-240-million-crowdfunding-budget-by-the-end-of-2017/
https://www.criticalhit.net/gaming/after-seven-years-and-240-million-in-crowdfunding-star-citizen-is-still-no-closer-to-being-finished/
https://www.gamebyte.com/star-citizen-devs-spent-millions-of-their-own-players-money/
https://www.gamereactor.eu/news/762173/Reports+emerge+of+Star+Citizens+troubled+development/
https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/star-citizen-developers-allegedly-wasting-money.html
http://www.darkhorizons.com/report-star-citizen-chaotic-game-development/
Post by: Motto on May 07, 2019, 01:16:34 PM
Post by: StanTheMan on May 07, 2019, 03:19:30 PM
Post by: StanTheMan on May 07, 2019, 03:41:45 PM
Today's batch
of sheep
Shame they dont do some proper journalism themselves but better than nothing i suppose
Post by: dsmart on May 08, 2019, 06:19:01 AM
https://guardfrequency.com/259/
Post by: Beexoffel on May 08, 2019, 06:32:55 AM
Post by: Judge_dolly_OG on May 08, 2019, 06:45:14 AM
Years ago, most games media was still showing great enthusiasm and support for SC despite clear signs of what was going on. Some speculated that at some point, the media would flip its attitude. The Kotaku UK and Escapist articles didn't manage to trigger that. Obvious signs of non-viability didn't do it either. But it looks that this critical article in a big non-game magazine achieved it.
lets see if it has an effect on the backers cash rolling in.
Post by: dsmart on May 09, 2019, 09:31:30 AM
https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Weltraumsimulation-Star-Citizen-Traum-und-Wirklichkeit-4418035.html
Quote
Nonetheless, much of what Derek Smart wrote on Twitter and his blog over the years is an indispensable source of material for journalists' own research. Many of his allegations now seem to be substantiated by independent reviews by Forbes colleagues.
Post by: dsmart on May 09, 2019, 09:43:22 AM
https://www.nag.co.za/2019/05/09/gg-the-problem-with-star-citizen/
Post by: DemonInvestor on May 09, 2019, 12:57:00 PM
You know you done goof when you've lost the Germans :emot-lol:
https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Weltraumsimulation-Star-Citizen-Traum-und-Wirklichkeit-4418035.html
Have to tell you that most comments (i read) still discounted most you wrote, saddly.
Though i think most of them haven't even read most of what you wrote.
Post by: Aya Reiko on May 09, 2019, 06:28:22 PM
And more from the peanut gallery is bound to chime in, if they haven't already.
Ever get the feeling the Forbes article opened the door for everyone to start tearing into this mismanaged boondoggle and to tell the cultists to go fuck themselves with their tired old bullshit?
Post by: dsmart on May 10, 2019, 05:35:54 AM
You know you done goof when you've lost the Germans :emot-lol:
https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Weltraumsimulation-Star-Citizen-Traum-und-Wirklichkeit-4418035.html
Someone translated more of the German story. :emot-waycool:
Quote
Space Simulation Star Citizen: Dream and Reality
The largest crowd-funding project in history is accused of mismanagement, nepotism and waste. What is the criticism about? An analysis.
The ambitious project is already in its eighth year of development, taking into account the year chief developer Chris Roberts claims to have spent prior to the Kickstarter campaign developing design prototypes.
[...] because the name of chief developer Chris Roberts stands for two things in the gaming industry: great visions and problems in their implementation.
In 1996, he left Origin and founded his own studio, Digital Anvil, with his brother Erin Roberts. And here the story took its course, which also seems to repeat itself again in Star Citizen: Robert's vision for the ultimate space game was spelling doom for the Project.
This project [Freelancer] was something like the Proto-Star Citizen: Roberts had set it in his mind to develop a space simulation in which the player could move around freely and make all of their own decisions.
Former colleagues of Roberts from that time have repeatedly reported how detailed their former boss wanted to micro-manage even the smallest decisions of the involved coders and designers .
The Evil Publishers
With Star Citizen, Roberts claims to have freed himself from the pressure of the publishers who have always prevented him, so he says, from getting his version of a perfect space game. But it was those publishers who had previously forced Roberts to eventually deliver a more or less finished product.
And indeed, after eight years of development, there is no sign of a finished game.
However, more serious allegations that have been heard over the last few years in the context of the project have also been alleged by the Forbes journalists: Roberts and his leadership team at Cloud Imperium Games squander the crowd funding money for pointless expenses that have little to do with the actual development of the game.
Holy shit this is 4 pages long. In depth article
@thedereksmart is mentioned too.
The Cause of Derek Smart
Most of the points raised [in the Frobes article] have been known to longtime observers of the Star Citizen project for years. This is mainly due to independent game developer Derek Smart, who has been tirelessly digging out facts and rumors about Chris Roberts and his project since Star Citizen's crowd-funding campaign on Twitter began.
Smart is anything but objective and says himself that he has a vendetta against Chris Roberts and Cloud Imperium Games and wants to prevent him from collecting more backer money.
some more about unrealistsic development and how Derek says it became personal etc. Pretty objective reporting.
Star Citizen and the Freedom of Press
The Forbes article is particularly relevant because for the first time it picks up many of the allegations that Smart originally made public. Smart is not mentioned in the report at all [...] In addition, Cloud Imperium Games has in the past suppressed press releases that refer to Smart as the source. Among other things, the journalist Liz Finnegan was targeted for this [...]
@thedereksmart vidicated by German Magazine?
Nonetheless, much of what Derek Smart wrote on Twitter and his blog over the years is an indispensable source of material for journalists. Many of his allegations now seem to be substantiated by independent reviews by Forbes colleagues.
Re-built spaceship doors and a mansion
Some of the allegations against Roberts are relatively easy to check. For example, videos and financial reports published by Cloud Imperium Games make it relatively clear that hundreds of thousands of dollars have been spent on the decorative interior design of the company's five developer studios. In addition to art prints, futuristic furniture and detailed spaceship models Roberts has included, among other things, a detailed, full-size replica of an airlock installed in one of the offices of the company.
Whether Roberts bought his nearly $ 5 million property in Los Angeles's Pacific Palisades luxury district last year from funds sourced from Star Citizen backers is hard to verify. Above all, because Cloud Imperium Games, despite the voluntary release of much of their financial data, still does not reveal how high the company owners, including Roberts and his wife Sandi Gardiner salary is. However, one can confidently assume that this is a significant amount. After repeated inquiry with a press representatives the sum was not made public.
Post by: dsmart on July 31, 2019, 04:34:18 PM
Post by: Beexoffel on October 01, 2019, 10:38:01 AM
Post by: dsmart on October 01, 2019, 03:42:47 PM
Sunk Cost Galaxy 7 is online!
Yeah this latest one is pretty good too. Meanwhile, over there...
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/dbyjro/sunk_cost_galaxy_chapter_7_the_lady_macbeth/
Post by: jwh1701 on October 03, 2019, 05:04:27 PM
Yeah this latest one is pretty good too. Meanwhile, over there...
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/dbyjro/sunk_cost_galaxy_chapter_7_the_lady_macbeth/
I'm very surprised that is was not bombarded to the ground.
Post by: Aya Reiko on October 03, 2019, 10:24:01 PM
I'm very surprised that is was not bombarded to the ground.I think even the cultists are getting disillusioned with broken promise after broken promise. It's like each layer are starting to peel away until the rotten, stinking core is all that remains.
Post by: wiser3754 on October 04, 2019, 01:09:25 AM
Sunk Cost Galaxy 7 is online!
The next video is the one I'm mostly looking forward to. In the next chapter Bootcha dissects the Frankenstein engine powering this project. A glitch and bug riddled compilation is sure to be included.
Post by: dsmart on October 04, 2019, 03:12:37 PM
I think even the cultists are getting disillusioned with broken promise after broken promise. It's like each layer are starting to peel away until the rotten, stinking core is all that remains.
Yup. They know the end is nigh; and that with each day that goes by the chances of them ever seeing the game(s) they were promised back in 2012 (!) erodes.
Post by: jwh1701 on October 06, 2019, 12:11:49 PM
Quote from: Aya Reiko on October 03, 2019, 10:24:01 PM
I think even the cultists are getting disillusioned with broken promise after broken promise. It's like each layer are starting to peel away until the rotten, stinking core is all that remains.
Yup. They know the end is nigh; and that with each day that goes by the chances of them ever seeing the game(s) they were promised back in 2012 (!) erodes.
As the star citizen super fan I have gone into that thread as asked everyone to love pledge to get the funding tracker over 300m.
Post by: krylite on October 08, 2019, 12:03:33 PM
Sunk Cost Galaxy 7 is online!
Yay! thanks, I'd wondered if there would be anymore. nice Oct. surprise.
As the star citizen super fan I have gone into that thread as asked everyone to love pledge to get the funding tracker over 300m.
Yup. They know the end is nigh; and that with each day that goes by the chances of them ever seeing the game(s) they were promised back in 2012 (!) erodes.
The next video is the one I'm mostly looking forward to. In the next chapter Bootcha dissects the Frankenstein engine powering this project. A glitch and bug riddled compilation is sure to be included.
Oh yeah, looking forward to it. They couldn't admit their engine was screwed from the start for the project, because it would be acknowleding 300 mil was wasted and siphoned for CR&Sandy's ill gotten gains & excesses. What a ponzi hole that was dug, and bigger clawback to ensue when the shtf time comes.
Post by: dsmart on October 08, 2019, 03:42:17 PM
https://respawnfirst.com/star-citizen-producer-playgrounds-games-for-its-next-rpg/
Post by: krylite on October 08, 2019, 08:06:21 PM
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/17501-Castellammare-Dr-Pacific-Palisades-CA-90272/20542858_zpid/?mmlb=g,0
compared to the house shown in the video. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2dbNx3c7uk&feature=youtu.be&t=1h11s)
It doesn't seem like the reported "$4.7 million" house. The price history listed showed it was rented in 2013, but last time it was fully sold was in 2004. So Bootcha maybe used a different nearby house as an example of an expensive pallisades home (?), but still redacted the address info to be considerate of those of whose this example house belongs to.
Post by: krylite on October 13, 2019, 10:14:00 AM
Post by: dsmart on October 22, 2019, 11:45:07 AM
Post by: StanTheMan on October 23, 2019, 05:45:22 AM
Complete dicks giving CRoberts any more of their cash.
(https://www.digitalalchemy.global/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Sunk-Cost-Fallacy-Banner_550x333.png)
Post by: Judge_dolly_OG on October 24, 2019, 01:56:32 PM
https://i.redd.it/dr4y6vvs97u31.png
Post by: wiser3754 on November 07, 2019, 03:39:44 PM
Youtuber 'TheEradicator', who has been holding CIG's feet to the fire as of late gives his musings in this video.
Post by: N0mad on November 07, 2019, 04:21:43 PM
The next silver bullet to be loaded into this revolver of a project, SSOCS or socs for short, is now being teased for the unveiling lf Microtech at CitizenCon. Croberts has stated before that he'll not release anymore planets unless this piece of core tech is implemented at an experimental level at the least.
CIG keep doing this: pick a technology which they need to implement, give it a fancy name so people can't Google it to discover that it's already been implemented in other games / engines / is industry standard. Pretend that it's the next big thing to fix all the problems. Roll it out with much fanfare and by the time players realise nothing significant has changed (except a few new bugs) then the conversation has moved onto the next great CIG innovation to fix everything.
I'm sure it'll make some difference but it's not going to fix the game. Consider this: if player A moves around the map then SSOCS means that unnecessary assets are removed on the server as the player leaves an area - fine. But what happens when another player is still in the area vacated by A? In that case the assets are still required. So it'll work well if all the active players are clustered together on the server, but if they are spread out on the map then the server will still get bogged down handling all the updates.
Post by: dsmart on November 07, 2019, 04:29:17 PM
10 Stories About The Weirdest Video Game Production Ever
(https://www.cracked.com/blog/10-stories-about-weirdest-video-game-production-ever/)
Post by: kirin-rex on November 11, 2019, 12:07:31 AM
lmao
10 Stories About The Weirdest Video Game Production Ever
(https://www.cracked.com/blog/10-stories-about-weirdest-video-game-production-ever/)
You've really hit the big time of failure when cracked starts doing articles about you.
Thanks. I really wanted to post this one, but the forum thought I was a spambot and wouldn't let me.
Post by: Judge_dolly_OG on November 18, 2019, 04:56:44 PM
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/11/star-citizen-creator-chris-roberts-on-the-future-of-gaming.html
Post by: wiser3754 on November 18, 2019, 10:35:55 PM
o.0
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/11/star-citizen-creator-chris-roberts-on-the-future-of-gaming.html
"We can have up 4,000 or 40,000 players max on one world at one time". 40,000 players, with a ratio of NPCs of 9 to 1. That