Author Topic: Star Citizen Breaking News  (Read 224984 times)

Kyrt

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Re: Star Citizen - Breaking News
« Reply #150 on: December 13, 2017, 02:15:13 PM »
And incidentally, about Clive's post, I guess my misunderstand is more that I disagree with your assessment, Derek. In the quote, Clive blames Animations, FLCS (or whatever pseudo-avionics they use), Models and something like "Entity Updates" for the problems. The most charitable way to interpret that is him saying it's not bad netcode, it's the fact that nothing in the game was ever budgeted for multiplayer.
So if you take him at his word, even if he is wrong, things are worse: it isn't something as simple as bad net transport. It's something as simple as those in power over this thing did not deem multiplayer important enough to give it a role in design decisions, and as a result, the game and engine explode in multiplayer situations, and it's not something that cleaning up the crappy netcode will fix.

Essentially.

CE itself was optimised around multiplayer FPS style games. That basis ensures there are going to be certain assumptions embedded into the core of the engine that are going to be next to impossible to get rid of. But that also limits what CIG can do to translate the game into an MMO environment.

Put another way, the netcode is working fine.
But - as Clive said - the engine is being asked to stuff it was never designed for. And as a result, everything is blocking everything else. Even if/when they get the netcode up to speed and viable for an MMO, because the core structure of the engine was designed for multiplayer, there are still going to be roadblocks and aspects which reduce performance and efficiency.

It could be possible to design a way around those limitations, but then the problem becomes a question of if CIG have the money and time to do so. Technically, one could posit that appropriate use of server meshing and data culling and smart design and the like could see the gameworld reduced to a huge number of 32 player server meshed zones so you could get instances with multi thousands of players, but a system like that introduces its own set of nightmares

The key point to drag away from all of this is that you can essentially do anything at all with any engine, given enough time and money to modify it, but that doesn't mean an engine is going to be suitable. CE likely would have worked for the Infinite Warfare style game Chris Roberts was pushing. But for an MMO? It lacked the netcode, the AI engine, the physics engine, the rendering engine, the server backend and integration, planet/city and instance generation, and more.

The engine COULD have been adapted, given time and money but it would be easier, cheaper and quicker to switch to an MMO engine or develop their own. That CIG then spent so much time, effort and money working on game assets and ships instead of developing the engine simply made the problems worse




dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - Breaking News
« Reply #151 on: December 13, 2017, 03:10:21 PM »
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/940988268572807168

Star Citizen backers now have a choice to make. 1) Dig deep & continue to fund a failed venture 2) ask questions about the money or 3) pull out and get a refund.

What choice will you make?

It's here. It's bad. And it's only going to get worse.

Stay tuned.

CryTek has followed through on its threat to sue RSI/CIG for a litany of things, and have hired one of the best law firms in the US. The suit is led by this guy.

The lawsuit is currently up on PACER, but doesn't show as being served yet. They are claiming, among other things, IP infringement, breach of contract, and royalties (on the $170m raised) due to them.

I am currently working through an article about it which will provide more details from the filing. It's as serious as can be, as they are alleging they switched engines to avoid paying them.

Developing story. Stay tuned.

The lawsuit is online

https://www.scribd.com/document/367101474/Crytek-v-CIG

CIG response. The standard "dindu nuffin'" defense

“We are aware of the Crytek complaint having been filed in the US District Court. CIG hasn’t used the CryEngine for quite some time since we switched to Amazon’s Lumberyard. This is a meritless lawsuit that we will defend vigorously against, including recovering from Crytek any costs incurred in this matter.”

In case you weren't paying attention, CIG just basically, without legal counsel, just went on the PUBLIC RECORD and ADMITTED to violating one of the items of contention in the lawsuit. See where it mentions 2.1.2 in the complaint. wow
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 03:18:15 PM by dsmart »
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

StanTheMan

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Re: Star Citizen - Breaking News
« Reply #152 on: December 13, 2017, 05:01:41 PM »
Quote
That CIG then spent so much time, effort and money working on game assets and ships instead of developing the engine simply made the problems worse

And CRoberts thought that his time was best spent doing MOCAP instead of getting the basics done right.

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - Breaking News
« Reply #153 on: December 13, 2017, 05:30:58 PM »
For those who haven't done the homework on Skadden law firm.

"Mr. Sammi, as lead trial counsel, recently obtained a $500 million jury verdict for leading video game studio clients ZeniMax Media and id Software against Facebook subsidiary Oculus VR and its executives"

Also, 3 of the 4 listed attorneys were part of the Zenimax team  (Sammi, Pak, Hemr)
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 06:08:19 PM by dsmart »
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

StanTheMan

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Re: Star Citizen - Breaking News
« Reply #154 on: December 13, 2017, 05:41:33 PM »
And it all started nearly two years ago.  Early 2016 is when Crytek told CIG to knock it the fuck off.  CIG gave them the middle finger instead and now here we are.

If that is the case then you would expect Ortwin to have somewhat comprehensible reasons for doing so.

In other words they must have some defence they think is worthy OR.......they know they are screwed and carried on as long as the could to make as much $$$ as they could.

If they knew this was coming it also makes a mockery of any attempts to sell SC on to someone else (not that the engineering debt and presales didn't do that already)

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - Breaking News
« Reply #155 on: December 13, 2017, 05:43:21 PM »
And it all started nearly two years ago.  Early 2016 is when Crytek told CIG to knock it the fuck off.  CIG gave them the middle finger instead and now here we are.

If that is the case then you would expect Ortwin to have somewhat comprehensible reasons for doing so.

In other words they must have some defence they think is worthy OR.......they know they are screwed and carried on as long as the could to make as much $$$ as they could.

If they knew this was coming it also makes a mockery of any attempts to sell SC on to someone else (not that the engineering debt and presales didn't do that already)

Ortwin? LOL!! Yeah, he's an incompetent ass. Remember Kevin Costner sued their company, Ascendant, into the ground?
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

Kyrt

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Re: Star Citizen - Breaking News
« Reply #156 on: December 13, 2017, 11:15:49 PM »
In other words they must have some defence they think is worthy OR.......they know they are screwed and carried on as long as the could to make as much $$$ as they could.

If they knew this was coming it also makes a mockery of any attempts to sell SC on to someone else (not that the engineering debt and presales didn't do that already)

The only possible defence that seems likely is that somehow a termination clause was triggered, allowing CIG to end the contract and move to LumberYard - apparently without telling CryTek. One could also argue that using LumberYard means the game is still using CryEngine, depending on whether or not the law sees LumberYard as a separate entity or not, and so has not switched engines.

To be honest, I don't see either or those as being likely.

The best that it seems CIG can hope for is for the damages to be kept to a "reasonable" amount.

Aya Reiko

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Re: Star Citizen - Breaking News
« Reply #157 on: December 13, 2017, 11:55:21 PM »
In other words they must have some defence they think is worthy OR.......they know they are screwed and carried on as long as the could to make as much $$$ as they could.

If they knew this was coming it also makes a mockery of any attempts to sell SC on to someone else (not that the engineering debt and presales didn't do that already)

The only possible defence that seems likely is that somehow a termination clause was triggered, allowing CIG to end the contract and move to LumberYard - apparently without telling CryTek. One could also argue that using LumberYard means the game is still using CryEngine, depending on whether or not the law sees LumberYard as a separate entity or not, and so has not switched engines.

To be honest, I don't see either or those as being likely.

The best that it seems CIG can hope for is for the damages to be kept to a "reasonable" amount.
And what's "reasonable"?  CIG doesn't even have $10 in Monopoly money.

They are fucked.  This is the beginning of the avalanche of creditors wanting to get something for their troubles.

supuvami

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Re: Star Citizen - Breaking News
« Reply #158 on: December 14, 2017, 03:04:20 AM »
Fact: Star Citizen is not using CryEngine anymore.

This is from the last bugsmashers to date:


Link to video


nightfire

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Re: Star Citizen - Breaking News
« Reply #159 on: December 14, 2017, 03:15:42 AM »
They are fucked.  This is the beginning of the avalanche of creditors wanting to get something for their troubles.

Yup, it's time for the endgame!


McDrake

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Re: Star Citizen - Breaking News
« Reply #160 on: December 14, 2017, 04:11:53 AM »
Fact: Star Citizen is not using CryEngine anymore.

This is from the last bugsmashers to date:


Link to video
My question is:
Does lumberyard shows this popup too (still inside the code)? Or would it be another one.l?

lurker_404

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Re: Star Citizen - Breaking News
« Reply #161 on: December 14, 2017, 04:55:48 AM »
Imagine now, in order to add "fun" to all this shit, that one or more of the famous actors (mocap hamill, Anderson, etc...) refuse to be involved in SQ42 with all the bad news around this game and refuse to have their public image associated to it.  :magical:

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - Breaking News
« Reply #162 on: December 14, 2017, 07:41:35 AM »
In July 2015, I wrote about why them developing two titles with CryEngine was a legal minefield. Here we are.

http://dereksmart.com/2015/07/interstellar-discourse/

What I said...



You COULD say "I called it", right? Right.
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

Greggy_D

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Re: Star Citizen - Breaking News
« Reply #163 on: December 14, 2017, 08:00:02 AM »
Yes, you did.  If only CIG would have heeded your advice lol.  :lesnick: :sandance:

StanTheMan

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Re: Star Citizen - Breaking News
« Reply #164 on: December 14, 2017, 08:32:31 AM »
In July 2015, I wrote about why them developing two titles with CryEngine was a legal minefield. Here we are.

http://dereksmart.com/2015/07/interstellar-discourse/

What I said...



You COULD say "I called it", right? Right.

I know that Crytek wouldn't want to have taken legal action lightly but you wonder why they didn't act sooner as there was always a danger that the CIG $ would run out.


 

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