Author Topic: 3.0 Progress Watch  (Read 82385 times)

dsmart

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Re: 3.0 Released To PTU
« Reply #165 on: December 08, 2017, 04:49:01 AM »
Yeah. That picture of 11.4K issues from the Issue Council is, well, a bit misleading.

Not saying that these builds are anywhere near working, hell no, but some of the SC community like to duplicate entries for some reason or they don't read or report stupid shit which has no place being there etc. etc.

Yeah, the uniques are a little over 6K :colbert:
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

dsmart

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Re: 3.0 Released To PTU
« Reply #166 on: December 08, 2017, 04:53:07 AM »
I'm a little torn, on one hand I feel really sorry for all the devs who joined CIG thinking that this was going to the a career defining move, only to end up in development hell with Chris Roberts.

On the other hand, they're idiots. Why on god's earth did they make a cargo crate persist when storing the character data? The guy who explained that his fix was to remove the crate only on death is an idiot - when clearly the solution was to NOT PERSIST AT ALL!? I know they've made everything overly complex, but this should be basic stuff.

It must have dawned on them by now that they lack the collective talent to make this game.

We're talking about a game in which, way into the future, space men are going to be picking up and dragging boxes across landscapes. Think about that for a minute. Then ask yourself why this game play mechanic was even necessary, let alone how it makes any sense. I would think that a UI interface is all that's needed, and teleporting tech would be all that's needed to get things from A to B. But what do I know? I'm not the one pissing away millions of other people's money.

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One other thing I realised - we've become very accustomed to the ATV format, and it is nice to see the people doing the work, however, it must be the only game dev diary where no game is seen being played. Normally these things have a showcase of all the latest cool gameplay with a someone talking over it. This must be the only company which gives more screen time to the employees than the actual game. I can't imagine why.

Yeah, I've talked about this many times. The closest you're ever going to see them "playing" on these shows, is on Bugsmashers.
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

dsmart

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Re: 3.0 Released To PTU
« Reply #167 on: December 08, 2017, 04:57:34 AM »
Does it really matter how good the devs are or how creative they may or may not be? In the end whether it be because of Roberts tight restrictions or Roberts dictatorial management style in the end this project was driven off the cliff and Chris Roberts was at the wheel.

Yep. That's why even companies and projects with the best minds and talent, can fail spectacularly.

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It wasn't the goons, the Devs, EA, or Kim Jong Il who ruined this project, It was one individual.

Yeah, that would be that guy, Derek Smart.  :laugh: :lol:

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Perhaps, one day, if CIG could get rid of Roberts and if they has some cash and some continued backers support who were willing to accept a game of a much smaller scale and decreased fidelity they might get some sort of game. They would need to clear house on upper managment and get a very focused Project manager, not an incompetent wasteful boob like Roberts who couldn't run the drive through window at McDonalds.

Too late. It's crashing in spectacular ways already, and it's playing out like a complete and catastrophic loss.

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Do I think he would step aside, NO, not unless the project was out of cash and he was about to shutter the doors. Do I think enough backers would continue supporting a reboot for years to come, some might. There are a lot of if's here. One huge conditional statement that all begins and ends with Robbers. I think he would kill it rather than see it taken away and continue and flourish without him. This would be Robbers third strike. Freelancer, Ascendant  Films, and CIG.

After claiming to have raised over $170M, do you really think this project has a leg to stand on in order to ask for more money to do anything?
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

Motto

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Re: 3.0 Released To PTU
« Reply #168 on: December 08, 2017, 05:32:03 AM »
They most likely will announce that this PTU release marks the start of Early Access. Throw in a small clip of SQ42 and the backers will cheer him on as the saviour of gaming.

N0mad

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Re: 3.0 Released To PTU
« Reply #169 on: December 08, 2017, 06:14:49 AM »
Wouldn't Early Access imply that you could simply buy the game for a normal amount of money and that they don't need pledges any longer?

dsmart

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Re: 3.0 Released To PTU
« Reply #170 on: December 08, 2017, 06:44:23 AM »
Wouldn't Early Access imply that you could simply buy the game for a normal amount of money and that they don't need pledges any longer?

No. Early access has nothing to do with money; it's a development term. Like alpha, beta etc. As the name implies, you're just buying in "early" as the project progresses. By definition, the game is currently in early access because backers have been buying in while still in development. Except that Chris hinted that it would be made an official descriptor. I have no reason to believe that they will do that because it would not only cause confusion and panic, but would also send the wrong message. It's not like describing it as something else is going to give them any leeway.

The only thing about early access - at least by Steam's own definition - is that there is the chance that the game can never be completed; as that's the nature of game development.
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

dsmart

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Re: 3.0 Released To PTU
« Reply #171 on: December 08, 2017, 07:48:42 AM »
wow, just look at that frame rate @ 1:07


Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

Bubba

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Re: 3.0 Released To PTU
« Reply #172 on: December 08, 2017, 08:43:09 AM »
N0mad  and Monkey had a minor disagreement about the point of the "11th hour land grab" feature, where the former suggested that it's a good example of how cr always picks the hard way in development terms, adding complexity for no good reason and thus backing himself into a development corner, and the latter claimed that the feature hasn't been thought out beyond what's needed for a cash grab.
Since I know that you goons abhor conflict of any sort, especially on Internet fora, I might harmonize your views and say that they are compatible.
The problem with just carving up a moon and selling it is that then they would have to implement the ownership system and deal with the backlash of selling an apparent in-game advantage. Plus, they'd be limited to selling virtual land they've already created.
By selling a stick, they can sell an unlimited number of promises, starting with the first, namely that they will make a 3rd model of a stick. But like the pretty pictures they are selling, the code to sell that stick is already there.

Then, once they decide on the stick, they write up a description of its function that implies the implementation of dozens of features more.

So their need to grab the cash has led them to plan things in the worst way.

Charles Dickens' writing was largely determined by his funding model (serialized publication), so is the content of most successful visual art. But a funding model without a viable development plan is neither art nor business.

I like the debates of how this will end. I'm having a hard time imagining some other outcome than waking up one morning
to locked doors and lawsuits.


nightfire

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Re: 3.0 Released To PTU
« Reply #173 on: December 08, 2017, 11:06:35 AM »
wow, just look at that frame rate @ 1:07

Seems that he turned on Google's new AntiDerek™ protection for that video.



Also, I propose that we start using the performance metrics "fpm" or "fph" when talking about SC, instead of "fps". After all, talking about the speed of a snail in mph doesn't really make much sense  :cripes:

dsmart

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Re: 3.0 Released To PTU
« Reply #174 on: December 08, 2017, 03:48:01 PM »
Also, I propose that we start using the performance metrics "fpm" or "fph" when talking about SC, instead of "fps". After all, talking about the speed of a snail in mph doesn't really make much sense  :cripes:

I like this proposal.  :laugh:
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

dsmart

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Re: 3.0 Released To PTU
« Reply #175 on: December 08, 2017, 03:48:21 PM »
GUYZ!! GUYZ!! newsletter went out! Star CItizen is FEATURE LOCKED and ready to roll. And SQ42 is totally coming!

http://mailchi.mp/cloudimperiumgames/procedural-cities-and-the-anniversary-special-schedule-140673
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

dsmart

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Re: 3.0 Released To PTU
« Reply #176 on: December 08, 2017, 03:56:54 PM »
Sarsapilla is back with one of his 3.0 write-ups

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Episode 2

My self-imposed mission is the same as the one I completely failed to do last time: complete any one quest successfully.

Attempt #1:
I wake up in the wank pod, but something is... different. The screen is black- but not the black of a disconnect. The only things I can see in the room are internally-lit objects like the door controls. Everything else is a foggy, nearly-pitch-black void. My flashlight kind of makes a blob in the middle of the screen but refuses to illuminate anything- like the surfaces refuse to be lit. I begin to recall The Terrible Secret of Animal Crossing and wonder if perhaps, at last, I've stumbled on the true face of Star Citizen. Then I scare the shit out of myself when I exit the wankpod and come face to face with murky, shambling NPC's just standing there staring aimlessly. Well that's just good and horrifying.

Thankfully I have spawned-in-wankpod so many times I know the routes by heart at this point, so I make my way in the darkness downstairs to the ship spawner. Passing a window, the sunlight coming through illuminates the station and the areas where it touches look perfectly normal. So I guess there's some kind of ambient lighting and it's failing to render? It's really eerie. Other commandos are racing past and having no issues with sight so I assume this is something that only affects me locally. Ironically, my performance is great today- I am easily hitting 20+ fps even though I can't see anything. I did add more RAM between episodes, which may be making the difference. I make it to the spawner and suddenly the illumination snaps on throughout the station, just like that. Great? Not wanting to take this sudden visibility for granted, I decide to go shopping. They changed the PTU recently such that everyone starts with a million credits and no items, so if you want armor or guns you have to go buy them. I hadn't done it before so I figure why the hell not, how bad can it be. Clearly I'd forgotten that this is Star Citizen.

I walk into the first shop, some herp-derp armor pun I wasn't really paying attention. It's full of mannequins wearing what basically looks like recolors of the same suit over and over, and also 3 actual sets of armor. As I walk in, a commando walks up to one of the mannequins and teleports the suit onto his body. I know he didn't just equip a copy of the suit because it literally teleports, leaving the mannequin's head floating silently in the void. I kind of reflect for a minute that even with the lights on, Star Citizen isn't that much less of a horror show. Whatever, I want armor. I go over to the armor stand which is where I have my first encounter with CIG's un-fucking-believably awful shop interface.

See, in Citizenland, you don't get to click a shopkeeper and see a list of merchandise. No. You have to go mouse over the physical piece of merchandise, somewhere in the store, and "Interact" with it. All this does is tell you the name and the price. Oh good I can get a Fuckstick 5000 for just 800 credits- but what is it and what does it do? No idea. They won't tell you. If you click "Purchase" your commando will enter the unskippable 2 second animation of bringing up his Moby-Glass, and then a little purchase screen will pop up with some bullshit flavor text that also doesn't tell you what the item is or what it does. Well. Sometimes it'll pop up the purchase screen. About half the time, the act of starting the animation pulls your cursor off of the item, and then the game forgets what you were looking at, and you end up looking at the regular Moby-Glass main menu instead. Then you have to close it, another 2 second animation, recenter on the item, and reopen. You have to do this for every item you want. You want to buy clips? Yeah have fucking fun with that, you are going to have to FIND the proper weapon clip in a big pile of tiny box-shaped polygons, then hover on it to interact, then get your menu to fucking open to the right thing. For every individual clip.

But it gets better. See you can't just hit "I" for inventory and drag this shit over to your character, oh no. You have to use the already-loathsome Moby-Glass some more! There's a loadout screen with expandable rows for stuff like "Armor" and "Utility" and "Undersuit" and "Weapons." Expand one and you will see approximately seven million fucking slots, none of which are labelled. There are literally a dozen slots just for ammo clips and you bet your fucking ass Chris Roberts expects you to painstakingly fill each one with one of those clips you purchased individually. Are you thrilling at the gameplay yet? Every time you equip one, all of the menus collapse back to the start, and you get to hunt back through the tree to find where you were. And every time you "Save" your character vanishes into the ether and then reappears, now actually wearing all of the garbage you're hanging on him. That's right, everything in your inventory is rendered on your fucking character. You might be saying "Now hold on, that sounds cool- you could see what other people are carrying!" But I remind you again that this is Star Citizen, so literally all of the clips are featureless grey boxes and all of the guns are indistinguishable grey lumps- some bigger than others. And they all have a million polygons so guess what happens when a bunch of commandos run on the screen, items jingling and jangling all over the fucking place? Chris Roberts cums, I'm guessing, and your frames drop to zero. So anyway I buy armor. One piece at a time, head-chest-arms-legs-boots or whatever, then equip it laboriously. I go for the heaviest possible armor because why the hell not, if I'm going to all this trouble I might as well get something out of it.

That's when I discover that armor fucking sucks. You think Star Citizen is garbage to play normally? Try playing the game with about 50% of your monitor occluded by the inside of your own goddamn helmet. HELMETS DON'T FUCKING WORK LIKE THIS, CHRIS. Why in fuck's sake would anyone wear a helmet that prevented them from seeing?  On top of that, the weight of the armor actually slows your character down. So have fun moving at a crawl while completely fucking blind, I guess! But don't worry because you won't be moving for long, since wearing armor causes your heart rate to shoot up. Did I mention that if your heart rate goes high enough, your screen starts to black out? So there's some more screen occlusion for you! I get about 20 feet down a hallway before my spaceman is wheezing like a geriatric, the tiny portion of the screen I can actually see fading in and out of blackness due to his exhaustion. Then I take the god damn armor off.

Dropping the idiotic sideshow that is inventory, I go and spawn the complimentary constellation that all PTU users get and fly it to Levski. I figure if the frames are good I will jitter my way down to the base, load up some cargo, and maybe meet Miles "Technicolor Dream Jacket" Eckhart while I'm there. Moving cargo isn't technically a mission but I will take what I can fucking get in this piece of crap. I point the nose of the ship at Levski and immediately plow face-first into the fucking planet. What?

No, really. Usually flying to planets takes 5+ minutes but I forgot that Levski is on this tiny little asteroid, that just so happens to have an atmosphere (what) and also just so happens to be covered in moon craters (WHAT) that just so happen to look exactly like actual normal-sized moon craters would when viewed from space, even though they're like 10 feet wide (WHAT). So I'd pointed my nose at the planet, boosted, and then turned away to pick up a book- reading material during trips being a common thing among commandos now. It couldn't even have been 30 seconds before my ship bounced off the planet at full speed. For a Constellation this is about 900 m/s which is about 2000 miles per hour so naturally this does literally no damage (WHAT) and my ship just spins a little bit before righting itself. Okay, I was mistaken- one of the little front-fan side finny things popped off. This does not noticeably impact the ship's performance in any way.

So I go skimming along the surface of Delamar at about 5 feet, with all of the details making it look like I'm 10 miles up, and eventually make it to the mining base Levski. This place is really hopping- there's like 5 commando ships here which for Star Citizen is the equivalent of the Stormwind auction house steps. Naturally my FPS takes a shit due to all of this activity and I end up in a kind of uncontrolled drift-crash into the main tower. Luckily my ship and the largely-glass tower come away completely unscathed from another 2000mph impact. Somehow I manage to hang onto my bandolier of clips and medpens as well. Fidelity! I request landing, one system which miraculously has not actually failed yet, and am directed to one of the big hangar pits with the door that slides open for me to lower my ship through.

I sail down in the shaft of sunlight from the overhead door, and safely touch down. Powering the ship off, I step down to the landing pad. That's odd, I can only see the areas that the sunlight is touch- oh no. The darkness. The narrow area of visibility shrinks, the door overhead sliding shut as I desperately scramble back to the ship, trying to lift off before it's too late. But I'm too slow. The light fades and I'm left in that black murk again. This time in an unfamiliar station with absolutely no illumination to guide me.

<to be continued>

PTII

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So there I was, in the Levski, the asteroid mining base. With an atmosphere. Atmosphsteroid mining base? The light glitch was back, meaning that literally all I could see was the running lights of my ship, a couple of illuminated deck lights, and the sign over the elevator into the base proper. I couldn't climb or fly back out- the overhead hangar doors had closed, and- as far as I know- they don't open again until you take the elevator back. Also, for some reason, there was a strong wind whipping through the completely sealed hangar and I could see that. I guess CIG decided that "Has atmosphere" means "has strong wind currents" and they didn't want to just play sounds, so they added some particle effects? But being CIG they fucked it up, so I'm sitting in a sealed underground room and seeing blue dust race past like I'm in the middle of a hurricane. Sure whatever.

My hands were inching towards the "Kill yourself" buttons which I really didn't want to do since it'd put me back in the wankpod on Olisar and force me to start the whole stupid trip over. Just before I hit it, I noticed something- light, precious light! But only in the top-left corner of my screen. I whipped my mouse around for a minute and yes, sure enough, the game was rendering correctly but only in a 2 inch by 3 inch rectangle on the top left of my monitor. In that little window, the hangar was well lit and welcoming- everywhere else it was a bleak unlit hellscape. Well, good enough- not that much worse than it would have been running around with that helmet on. I began making my way through the base, stopping every 3 or four feet to look down and to the right so I could use my little upper-left window as a sort of scope to map the path ahead. All I wanted to do was get to a terminal and load some cargo on my damn ship. Then I'd take it somewhere well lit and try to sell it, completing my first self-imposed mission at long last. I gave up on the prospect of meeting Miles "Male Fashion Advice" Eckhart as there was just no way I was going to wander the corridors of Levski like this. Or so I thought.

Using my unfucked-vision-o-scope I carefully navigated into the first elevator which televated me into the base proper. Once inside the gloom, while still stifling, was a little easier to manage as I could at least see the running lights in the halls. Unfortunately, I couldn't see any screens or signs except through my monitor corner, so I had zero clue where I needed to go to purchase cargo. I began to wander. First through some kind of baffling customs segment- I mean, this is a game where literal news vans are equipped with guns, it would be kind of unusual if someone wasn't packing- and then into what looked like the glass tower that I had so recently plowed my ship into at 2000mph. It seemed like nobody inside was really shaken by that incident- or, if they were, I couldn't see the looks on their faces through the murk. Basically everything looked like a black hallway with a fog machine running and people standing stock-still in various positions scattered throughout it. Just a normal Star Citizen Thursday at this point really.

I wandered through a series of doors- I assume they were doors because I could see the open/close mechanisms clearly, but nothing else- and eventually found myself in an odd place. Door after door, all the mechanisms locked, but stacked so closely together that it couldn't lead to any space bigger than a closet. What the hell was this? Then it hit me- wankpods! I guess CIG intended to allow players to spawn somewhere other than Port Olisar, at some point. This was clearly a wankpod chamber, and the locked rooms were player spawn points. Too bad it was completely useless as any death would result in a quick trip back to old PO. I shrugged and moved on.

A long and pointless interlude later, I found myself in front of a cargo screen. I guess even Chris realized that manually purchasing and placing every box of cargo would be a nightmare, because this interface was actually marginally sane. Just a standard panel, you walk up and select your ship, then select the cargo. For some reason the cargo was listed in credits per hundredth of a standard cargo unit, which I found out as I almost disastrously bought a hold full of cargo for 650,000 credits or more than two thirds of what CIG gives you overall. Not there's anything else to do with that money, but I'd hate to lose it if the ship blew up or something - I had no idea if the game would remember that I'd bought the cargo when a replacement spawned, or what. So I bought a full cargo hold of hydrogen, the cheapest item in there. Not... entirely sure why a technology base that produces ships capable of flying faster than light and strong enough to fly into the ground at 2000mph would really ever need people to haul the most abundant gas in the universe. Just scoop a star, right? Maybe that would make it too much like that other space game. But hey, cargo is cargo. I loaded up and navigated the dark maze back to my ship.

After verifying that, yep, I now had a hold full of highly flammable and explosive gas containers completely unsecured, I sat down and prepared to lift off. The ship didn't move. Why wouldn't it move? I checked my keyboard- still plugged in. Mouse, still working. Ship power worked- other buttons worked, I could retract and lower the landing gear, which lead to an amusing moment as I made the constellation do push-ups off of the hangar deck. But try as I might, it wouldn't take off. Maybe with the loss of that fin and the addition of all this weight, the dreaded fidelity had finally caught up to me? Nope, chat said that it was just a bug with the Cutlass and the Constellation now- sometimes they just won't fly at all! Great. I tried exiting/entering four or five times, no dice. Finally I decided to go back into the black maze of Levski and see if I could force the ship to respawn at a control panel.

Sadly for me, all of the up-down of the landing gear action must have moved me about two inches higher off the landing pad than normal. As I stepped off of the Constellation elevator, my commando's weak ankles shattered- instantly red on my HUD. I bled to death in seconds. My dying thought, as I scrambled desperately to equip a med pack, was "If only I hadn't taken that armor off..."

I woke up back at Port Olisar.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 04:58:16 PM by dsmart »
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

dsmart

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Re: 3.0 Released To PTU
« Reply #177 on: December 08, 2017, 04:08:07 PM »
Well, it looks like after I posted about how spin locks were killing Star Citizen performance, they apparently fixed it. I am going to send them a bill.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/7iieke/300_progress_watch_update_20171208/

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In render mesh management, code lock contention has been optimized. Generally, frequent CPU spikes on server and client side due to spin locks have been removed. The relevant changes mention in last week’s report as in-progress have been submitted. People on the PTU have observed the effect of a degenerated "spin lock". A spin lock used to control access to a shared resource when multiple threads are trying to work on it, such as a file or a memory space. It allows for very fast resource transfer between thread, but threads waiting for the resource are consuming a huge amount of CPU while waiting. It's useful as long as each thread doesn't wait long for the resource, otherwise it becomes a huge performance drain on all CPU cores
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

Motto

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Re: 3.0 Released To PTU
« Reply #178 on: December 08, 2017, 04:26:20 PM »
Nah, don't send a bill. Just say "You're welcome". That'll hurt them harder  :D

dsmart

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Re: 3.0 Released To PTU
« Reply #179 on: December 08, 2017, 04:57:51 PM »
Scroll up for PTII
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

 

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