Author Topic: Star Citizen Citizenship  (Read 806058 times)

dsmart

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Re: The Star Citizenship
« Reply #240 on: August 29, 2017, 04:56:24 PM »
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

Aya Reiko

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Re: The Star Citizenship
« Reply #241 on: August 29, 2017, 11:08:12 PM »
Meanwhile, over there

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After the Gamescom reality bite, out of the 30 or so friends who had backed at similar levels to myself ($300 or so)...I'm the only one left. 22 of them asked for refunds within hours of Gamescom with no intention of buying back in with even a starter package.

As for me...I keep hovering over the figurative refund button then not doing it, no real idea why. Sure, I can afford to write the sum off without much thought...but should I be encouraging CR's directorial cinematic fantasies on the whim of ever landing my Cutlass Black on a planet/moon and actually completing a simple trade mission?

I can't keep extending my deadline to cut off my support much more without feeling like so many of the hopelessly and tragically emotionally invested drones... I'm not one of those...but wishful thinking is fast becoming a guilty passion
Now that I think of it.  I still haven't slammed that refund button myself, even though I'm only $30 into this mess.  (Thank God I didn't buy further into this debacle, I almost did.)  Can anyone share with me how I go about and get one?  Anything to further torpedo this shitshow, the better.

Motto

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Re: The Star Citizenship
« Reply #242 on: August 30, 2017, 12:17:34 AM »
There's a Reddit for it somewhere

Edit: here
« Last Edit: August 30, 2017, 12:21:46 AM by Motto »

Motto

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Re: The Star Citizenship
« Reply #243 on: August 30, 2017, 12:20:31 AM »
So, this quote from MTBFritz on the Frontier SC v6 thread is pretty clear  :golfclap:   :five:

1. because its non-existing. With all the new features coming up and technological "break-throughs" discovered by CiG they would be forced to re-write the single player campaign every few months because the foundation and the possibilities change so often. So IF it exists I d say its nothing more then a skeleton without any meaty pieces attached to it. Mo-cap will be missing completely, if they had that integrated a lot of it would ve trickled down to the PU already. As CR always touts (repeated by the white knights) how closely connected PU and SQ42 are I think we can take a good hard look at the current PU and determine from that how far along SQ42 is. Being unable to show anything because of "spoilers" makes me think that they either A) have such a tiny campaign that a single 5 second snippet would probably reveal 50% of its content or B) it simply doesnt exist the PAARP speech aside.

2. SQ42 is all about space ships and your career in the navy which focuses again around ships and space warfare (think Top Gun in space). I am sure space legs and FPS elements can be integrated as well but it will be an addition at best and never the focus. Sadly thats exactly what seems to the current Magnus Opus tho. Everything is about walking, running, doing FPS things while the ship aspects (beside visuals) is pretty much ignored. If I imagine CiG releasing a full campaign with current dogfight mechanics SQ42 will be one of the biggest flops in history. As the 2017 Gamescom showed CiG will showcase and present half-finished stuff and even content that was never asked for in order to create an appearance. Do you really think that if SQ42 would be finished or mostly done CiG would just sit on it and not use it to leech more $$$ off the gullies?

3. again I believe SQ42 is pretty much non-existent so releasing a "simple" cinematic single player campaign in the spirit of Wing Commander would mean buckle down and start from pretty much zero. By now they dont have the manpower nor the financial means to undertake such a project and come out with anything that would even raise an eyebrow. I guess they sat on their dream too long and too careless expanding and bloating without working on any of the basics and now the hollow mountain starts to crumble and all they can do is to walk lightly in order to avoid a landslide. Everything about Star Citizen screams "maintenance mode" to me. We follow their "progress" for months with in-editor snippets of good-looking fragments but none of it ever makes it into the PU and even now....a full year after 2016 most of the things shown in 2016 are missing. I consider the 2017 presentation "smoke & mirror" until it makes an appearance on the PU. Chris Roberts proves time and time again that he is disconnected from reality and still lives in 1990 regarding technological capabilities. All the surrounding factors make the existence of SQ42 highly improbable.

We ll never hear the "real" story about SQ42 for sure but I hope that we ll get an insight into all the assets and work completed on this game and then realize that it was all an illusion from the start and never had a chance to take off.

Again, this is not how the real life works. You reserve this attitude for a childish dream of yours, yourself or maybe next of kin (children most likely, people tend to be less forgiving with their partners). You will always find it in yourself to forgive yourself or strike a compromise to keep on going. If this behavior is projectd on outside factors then something is seriously wrong. We are not talking about a child-time teddybear or your own toddler kid. This is a grown man with a company behind him taking money for promises without delivering anything in return. At this point the ultra/white knight behavior borders on a clinical condition. Even if you loan money to your best friend you ll do it a couple of times at best. But if you never see anything of it back and your friend keeps asking for more you will eventually change your relationship or make a hard cut.

Not with CiG which is extremely strange/funny. Instead of asking for results or trying to get value in return for your financial investment (notadonation) people try to avoid the subject at best they can instead bringing forth this "when its ready" crap. Tiny little things which are non-existent at this point are rewarded with 400$ purchases and a single word (for example "soon") is worth millions to the fans if the tracker can be trusted. Take a good hard look around yourself. Check every other released game and observe the complaints and critiques about the smallest things. And this goes for private people mostly. If you deal with business partners things become much more strict and harsh. Fail a deadline and you are looking at penalties, keep doing so and your contract gets adjusted until your own profit dwindles toward zero or puts you in debt. A "deal" entails conditions and responsibilities which need to be met else there will be consequences. Our world doesnt work on the principle of "when its ready". Chris Roberts could maintain that statement if he would develop Star Citizen on his own dime like....I dont know.....Derek Smart does with his games. But he does it with other peoples money and those people expect a return value which is pretty non-existent at this point. Kickstarter never was a donation. It was a token of trust at best. People who pledged expected something and I m pretty sure none of them was thinking "I ll pledge 2000$ and this game will be released when its done". No, Chris Roberts advertised proficiency he doesnt possess and claimed awards he never accomplished (Wing Commander) to gain the trust of people (me included) and projected a timeline which was very agreeable to all of us.

I believe the initial influx of money was used to purchase good looking videos and fluff stuff in order to make people part with yet more money making it the beginning of a scam. Once people were involved it was rather easy to look past delays and "problems" but nothing really comes forth expect yet another excuse or another delay or another broken promise. At some point a mature adult will take a good hard look at his business relation and make a call. Some will have a bigger financial pool to draw from so even 30.000 might not hurt all that much (hard to believe but I guess its possible, lots of the super rich have kids you know). But please dont try to sell this condition or apathy of yours as "take as much time as you need, its ready when its ready". I could ve been a backer as well if I didnt wait a few more months to see how it evolves and if I were whoever says this doesnt speak for me. Also I wouldnt be a smarty or goon or hater, I would simply be a disappointed backer whos expectations were not met. If other people are so shallow and easy to please....good for them, just dont try to talk me down because I expect actual value for my hard-earned money. And telling me to "get lost" or "get a refund" will not save the project either. It will simply reduce the pool of people to draw money from. Apart from the project turning into an echo chamber eventually.

But thank god people dont simply turn their back and walk away. I am not invested in Star Citizen and yet I keep speaking up. Freedom of speech and all that you know. Dont be mad at me if the results from CiG are laughable and reek of extortion and scam. Dont stalk me because I dare to point out obvious flaws and mistakes and even lies. Why would you hate on the messenger and not the one who actually creates the message?

There are countless people promising the world or the sky and often enough there are people who so desperately want that vision to become true that they will donate or give money to it. Most of these scams are short-lived tho because people stop caring if nothing ever comes to fruitation. A well managed scam lives from a carrot on a stick and this is something Chris Roberts and his family are pretty proficient in sad as it is. We are basically talking about extortion by now. CR lost my trust back in 2014 and everything he has done since then only confirms my initial impression. I am always amazed how people are willing and able to twist their own perception and willfully ignore obvious flaws and hints in order to "keep the dream alive". Due to the short attention span of todays population the frequent release of ATVs is an absolute MUST to keep the money-train going.

You always have to wake up eventually tho. A dream is just that, a dream and eventually even this one will come to an end.

I would give that scenario a 80%+ probability. Personal estimate of course. If anybody thinks its wrong and has an impression of success regarding SQ42 feel free to provide examples and facts which might support your opinion.

Star Citizen by now might as well be a still born project with no hope of revitalization. We have a thesis of a pool of roughly 2000 heavily invested people, called "whales" and I dont doubt that number really. Such a financial commitment would result in lots of community interaction (to keep up the hype and continue spreading the dream) and while the shills, ultras and white knights are still numerous on various comment sections and forums its nowhere as bad as it was in the first 2 years where you risked a tidal wave of crap beating you into the ground whenever you dared to show any sign of doubt. Things have changed and I m sure its because the pool of fanatics has become smaller over time. With a smaller pool of people to draw money from CiGs options have become less and I think thats what we see in the past 2 years or so. Videos have become less impressive and much shorter, its often in-editor snippets now instead of full-blown propaganda videos and the presentations have also lost a lot of glimmer and shine. I can credit CiG with a "good looking video" in 2017 but that doesnt change the fact that everything feels half-baked, unfinished and improvised. Yes, its an alpha, I never forgot that you know. Star Citizen reminds me in every moment that its "at best" an alpha and nothing more. But I am one of the people who remember what the original kickstarter amount was and I still see the list of stretch goals linked to monetary values before my eyes. CiG has been given time enough and also more then enough goodwill to materialize anything of those things and you know what.....I am still waiting for anything that will "blow my mind". The absolute BEST thing from Star Citizen so far for me was the original Kickstarter Trailer. We dont have that and if I take a look at the current game I see a game that doesnt resemble what was promised back then.

Anyway, if this thesis is true (less people who give money resulting in less impressive stuff coming from CiG) then we are talking about a downward spiral which will eventually result in a collapse. How long this will take depends on the remaining people who continue giving money for nothing in return. But if the current status is upheld and this is the best CiG can manage with the money from the die-hard fans who continue to believe then things will not improve. They will rather turn worse and every single backer going for a refund really hurts now further reducing CiGs movement.

CiG does NOT have all the time they need to make this work. They have a window and as far as I can tell that window is closing. And if the game finally dies it wont be because of the "haters" or "Derek Smart" its because Chris Roberts was unable to deliver what he promised. Simple truth folks.

People talk about the "future" of Star Citizen. About how content and quality needs to be "sufficient" in order to allow purchases and sales to reach a wider audience. This makes me LOL really. A final release resembling a functional game equals a wonder at the moment and people talk about as if thats a given.

As for the "future of crowdfunding" I dont really think a reveal of the scam that Star Citizen is or its collapse will "hurt" crowdfunding in general. It will make people more aware of the risks for sure (and only for those who followed the project really, so many people never heard about SC, a failure will not affect them or their decisions regarding crowdfunding). There are a few individuals who cannot be helped (I m talking about the remaining whales who keep giving hundreds each month) but the majority of people evaluates risk versus reward when backing a project. That wont change. Maybe people will look more into the background of the project managers. If that would happen with Chris Roberts back in 2012 Star Citizen probably wouldnt have blown past the 65 million so easily resulting in the mess we now have.

I believe that poll to be as bogus as the fundtracker of number of backers. It was used as a justification for a decision made by Chris Roberts. Neither were a sufficiant number of backers informed nor asked in order to justify turning the whole project around. The poll was for whoever managed to stumble across is in the time window it was up. I would ve expected emails to everybody but that never happened because then CRoberts couldnt control the outcome.

1. While I m sure thats exactly his plan he cannot do it because 3.0 doesnt exist to an extent that would allow him such a move. We only saw fragments of 3.0 and the presentation he gave himself wasnt 3.0 but "future patches" so of all the things 3.0 promised to deliver only a couple are checked.
2. I m sure their "exit strategy" is finetuned and maintained as we speak and discuss this trainwreck.
3. the whales and fanatics already do this and try to drive away anybody who isnt all-in. The problem is that they are unable to shut up skeptics and criticism but those things never were responsible for a projetcs failure.

No doubt but the simple and ugly truth is that all those shiny visuals dont make a game and the creator of those videos obviously thinks exactly the same way putting more focus and weight on shiny pictures then a solid foundation. Star Citizen reminds me of a delicate crystal statue. Its looks beautiful but touch it and it falls apart. Its meant to be watched, not played with. Wouldnt that be a shame for Star Citizen?

dsmart

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Re: The Star Citizenship
« Reply #244 on: August 30, 2017, 04:24:59 AM »
So, this quote from MTBFritz on the Frontier SC v6 thread is pretty clear  :golfclap:   :five:

Yeah, I saw that yesterday. It's a brilliant post indeed. Thanks for sharing.

Quote
I believe that poll to be as bogus as the fundtracker of number of backers. It was used as a justification for a decision made by Chris Roberts. Neither were a sufficiant number of backers informed nor asked in order to justify turning the whole project around. The poll was for whoever managed to stumble across is in the time window it was up. I would ve expected emails to everybody but that never happened because then CRoberts couldnt control the outcome.

I had previously written about the poll he is talking about.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2017, 04:28:08 AM by dsmart »
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

dsmart

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Re: The Star Citizenship
« Reply #245 on: August 30, 2017, 05:50:26 PM »
Saved another one

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Well I read Derek Smarts blog and have drawn a personal conclusion towards Star Citizen, the game. I was offered some very good advice with no added comments one way or another when I first came into this thread. I was advised to wait and see what occurred with SC before dropping any real world money in. I disregarded what now appears to be very good advice. So, having cleared my thoughts on this, IS there a way to get a refund without a law suite I would never win? If so, how? Any help, like in the beginning, would be appreciated.

Chief
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

dsmart

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Re: The Star Citizenship
« Reply #246 on: August 31, 2017, 09:29:09 AM »
Yeah, he's never going to see his post/comment karma again, after those guys send it into a blackhole  :psyduck:

The 1 question that people need to ask CIG but no-one ever does
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

Backer42

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Re: The Star Citizenship
« Reply #247 on: August 31, 2017, 09:36:30 AM »
Yeah, he's never going to see his post/comment karma again, after those guys send it into a blackhole  :psyduck:

The 1 question that people need to ask CIG but no-one ever does
The poster states having completed two software development projects. That's two more than CIG/RSI has.

dsmart

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Re: The Star Citizenship
« Reply #248 on: August 31, 2017, 09:44:07 AM »
Yeah, he's never going to see his post/comment karma again, after those guys send it into a blackhole  :psyduck:

The 1 question that people need to ask CIG but no-one ever does
The poster states having completed two software development projects. That's two more than CIG/RSI has.

Heh, yeah.

And it's almost as if all these questions that are coming up, following the disastrous GC2017, are all the same questions that fucking Derek Smart guy has been asking, and writing about since July 2015  :smuggo:
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

dsmart

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Re: The Star Citizenship
« Reply #249 on: August 31, 2017, 09:48:36 AM »
There goes another one

Quote
Thank you for your help. You are the reason that I made this decision, thank you for keeping my eyes clear and open to the stupidity going on with CIG. This is a link to my post about the refund.
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

dsmart

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Re: The Star Citizenship
« Reply #250 on: August 31, 2017, 05:23:04 PM »
Who remembers about a month ago when Shitizens kicked up a furor that I had intentionally tagged Line Of Defense demos on YT using Star Citizen? Even though YT tends to mis-tag videos all the time.

Well, Mirificus over on SA, came across this.

Quote from: Mirificus" post="475946926





ONE MONTH AGO :















« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 05:25:13 PM by dsmart »
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

dsmart

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Re: The Star Citizenship
« Reply #251 on: September 01, 2017, 09:50:11 AM »
Meanwhile, MTBFritz  has another one of his masterclass posts up

Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.


dsmart

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Re: The Star Citizenship
« Reply #253 on: September 01, 2017, 10:21:14 AM »
The tribe are pretty much getting used to the fact that 3.0 is a clusterfuck that, if released this year, would just continue to prolong the disaster.

I bet they release it by year end. They have to.

Star Citizen: Around the Verse - Gamescom 2017 Behind the Scenes
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

Motto

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Re: The Star Citizenship
« Reply #254 on: September 01, 2017, 10:26:40 AM »
Meanwhile, MTBFritz  has another one of his masterclass posts up

That piece of text is a Tweet worth I'd say  :five:

 

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