Author Topic: Star Citizen Media Musings  (Read 299052 times)

Resin

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Re: Star Citizen Media Articles
« Reply #195 on: September 04, 2017, 09:25:09 PM »
Also at least in case of Star Citizen I would argue it didn't went according to Kickstarter rules where you will have to have working prototype to be able to use the platform.

This works for physical items but in case of games you can just create some pretty rendered stuff and do your pitch. Star Citizen still don't have working demo of a game, they don't still have a working platform where to build their game on, they are still figuring that out. After 6 years.

StanTheMan

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Re: Star Citizen Media Articles
« Reply #196 on: September 05, 2017, 03:25:59 AM »
Also at least in case of Star Citizen I would argue it didn't went according to Kickstarter rules where you will have to have working prototype to be able to use the platform.

This works for physical items but in case of games you can just create some pretty rendered stuff and do your pitch. Star Citizen still don't have working demo of a game, they don't still have a working platform where to build their game on, they are still figuring that out. After 6 years.

Interesting. 

I wonder if Backers will be able to use this to get to Kickstarter themselves when SC collapses ?

Motto

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Re: Star Citizen Media Articles
« Reply #197 on: September 05, 2017, 03:39:15 AM »
I wonder if that is true for digital stuff? I can't image Kickstarter approving a project when the basics haven't been met. I backed a new music album once via Kickstarter. Now what did the musician have to have of that album before launching a Kickstarter campaign? The whole point of the KS was to be able to produce a new album in the first place.

Resin

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Star Citizen Media Articles
« Reply #198 on: September 05, 2017, 04:35:34 AM »
Maybe it doesn't, I'm not that familiar with the platform. Anyway that would mean that the risk when backing digital products is tenfold when comparing to physical products since there is basically no guarantee of complete.

Edit: Well yeah, basically prototype is required only for physical items.

http://HTTPS://www.kickstarter.com/rules

Projects must be honest and clearly presented.

Our community is built on trust and communication. Projects can’t mislead people or misrepresent facts, and creators should be candid about what they plan to accomplish. When a project involves manufacturing and distributing something complex, like a gadget, we require projects to show backers a prototype of what they’re making, and we prohibit photorealistic renderings.

Projects can’t fundraise for charity.

« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 04:42:55 AM by Resin »

Resin

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Re: Star Citizen Media Articles
« Reply #199 on: September 05, 2017, 05:01:29 AM »


Well, that was a trip down a memory lane. I went to check the original Star Citizen Kickstarter page: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen



"Risks and challenges

We are aiming for a AAA game experience. But depending on the funding levels reached, we may have to limit the experience for the initially released game version. Nonetheless, Chris Roberts and his teams have shown consistently that they are able to develop epic story-based games. Even with our very limited self-funding we have been able to do already a lot of work which is why we can show you not just concept art and a cinematic trailer, but an extensive demo of actual game play. So, we are confident that even with limited means we will be able to deliver an amazing experience."

So you could maybe think that if they could show "extensive demo of actual game play" back in October 2012, they would have something more to show after 5 years that they showed at Gamescom.


dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen Media Articles
« Reply #200 on: September 05, 2017, 09:50:06 AM »

Well, that was a trip down a memory lane. I went to check the original Star Citizen Kickstarter page: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen

"Risks and challenges

We are aiming for a AAA game experience. But depending on the funding levels reached, we may have to limit the experience for the initially released game version. Nonetheless, Chris Roberts and his teams have shown consistently that they are able to develop epic story-based games. Even with our very limited self-funding we have been able to do already a lot of work which is why we can show you not just concept art and a cinematic trailer, but an extensive demo of actual game play. So, we are confident that even with limited means we will be able to deliver an amazing experience."

So you could maybe think that if they could show "extensive demo of actual game play" back in October 2012, they would have something more to show after 5 years that they showed at Gamescom.

Not just that. It also shoots down all those arguments that development didn't start in 2011 (which is what Croberts said), and which Shitizens keep insisting only started in 2014 (<--- LOL!!) because "they were building offices, teams etc"; as if ALL those things didn't cost time, resources, and money.

We're in year SIX now.
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

Motto

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Re: Star Citizen Media Articles
« Reply #201 on: September 05, 2017, 01:55:19 PM »
I just found this Outpost 2 article: Star Citizen: Chris Roberts’ SCAM

And this one at Based Gamer is almost a year old, which makes it a funny read: Star Citizen Isn't A Scam, It's Ambitious

Oh, back in June 2014 Chris was already not happy about being accused of scamming. He's come a long way since  :D
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 02:06:43 PM by Motto »

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen Media Articles
« Reply #202 on: September 05, 2017, 04:59:52 PM »
I just found this Outpost 2 article: Star Citizen: Chris Roberts’ SCAM

And this one at Based Gamer is almost a year old, which makes it a funny read: Star Citizen Isn't A Scam, It's Ambitious

Oh, back in June 2014 Chris was already not happy about being accused of scamming. He's come a long way since  :D

Yeah. I particularly like how Shitizens seem to think that the word "scam" started with me.
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

Spunky Munkee

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Re: Star Citizen Media Articles
« Reply #203 on: September 05, 2017, 06:09:04 PM »
Yeah, from the MCV Article named "Chris Roberts 'frustrated' by Star Citizen scam accusations" there was this quote ” Roberts said. “These builds are early enough that the feedback from people who love this genre so much they’ve been willing to put their money up way in advance of getting the finished product can be actioned on, allowing us to build a better, more stable game in the long run.

I guess Roberts was really talking about the LONG run since it's been many years and we still have not seen a stable game yet. That was written mid 2014. Three years have passed and we are not any closer from the perspective of a player. Sure they can show buggy demos but there has been nothing released for the players. I wonder if Based Gamer @PharaohSteveis kicking himself in the ass for supporting Roberts?

I don't care about Space Marine, it's utter dogshit and the dogfight survival (forgot it's name lets call it the mini shitshow with it's horrible weightless ships and crappy useless turrets) or racing both get boring. Yeah Roberts must have some very long range plans, like for a stable better game in the next decade.

I'm going to call it, Roberts next foray will be a handheld version of Star Citizen for the Ipad. He will need the support of backers, just $65 and you will get early access to the Alpha. Then we find that he used the funds from the Ipad version to prop up the broken and crippled original Star Citizen. The funny thing is that some people will jump at the chance to be an early supporter despite his growing negative reputation.

Orgetorix

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Re: Star Citizen Media Articles
« Reply #204 on: September 05, 2017, 07:48:20 PM »
Yeah. I particularly like how Shitizens seem to think that the word "scam" started with me.

The word "Scam" is rather new to the parlance, subjectivity

GRIFT (Black's Law Dictionary (8th ed. 2004) , Page 2064)

grift,vb. Slang. To obtain money illicitly by adroit use of a scam, confidence game, or other
fraudulent means. — grifter,n.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scam

1 scam play
noun \ˈskam\
Examples: scam in a Sentence
Definition of scam

    :  a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation an insurance scam

NEW! Time Traveler

First Known Use: 1963

I highly doubt that you "coined" the term...

Having said that, the definitions should make anyone familiar with the matter at hand, take a second look, "LTI..."

Moeis

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Re: Star Citizen Media Articles
« Reply #205 on: September 05, 2017, 08:48:31 PM »
So how do you explain all the crowd-funded games which have been funded, developed, and released? And there are MANY of them.
In the classic funding model, the revenue of the one or two successful video game projects recoup the cost of other 8 or 9 failed ones (including ones canceled behind closed doors). This works well especially for consumers. There are too many failed video game projects, where customers not only ate all financial risk through crowdfunding, but also ended up with no product (game) at all. Giving money risking a 80+ % failure rate with happy accidents here and there is not a viable strategy for consumers. They also see nothing of the revenue if a projects succeeds, so it never evens out for them.

I enjoyed many games, which didn't recoup their development costs and still got finished and released, because some investor took the risk and recouped the cost with the another bestselling blockbuster, which made insane amounts of money instead. That's not possible with crowdfunding when the developer runs out of money and closes shop.

I'm a critic of video game crowdfunding now, because i learned my lesson. What MattBrady is afraid of already happened, at least in my case.

I disagree with what you are saying.  Some of the best games have released were kickstarter/crowd funded games, and these games would not have ever existed if it wasn't for the crowdfunding.
I crowd funded
Pillars of Eternity 1 and 2
Divine Divinity Orginal Sin 1 and 2
Overload
Aqaunox Deep Descent
Bard's Tale IV
Star Citizen

Overload and Aquanox have been showing great progress and are going to be releasing early next year.
Pillars of Eternity 1 and Divinity Divinity 1 were both excellent games and there is no reason why the part 2's will not release, actually DOS 2 is releasing in 9 days.
Bard's Tale IV is being developed by inxile and they have a great record in releasing fantastic crowd funded games, so no worries there either.

Star Citizen is the only odd ball one here, for more than 1 reason, but I am not worried about that project.  I might start to get a little worried when they reach year 8 from when the kickstarter ended, if they have not released one of the games, So late 2020 early 2021.

Anyways, Kickstarter/crowdfund have been a great thing for PC gaming.  If anything it has only changed to the point where people are just going to crowd fund games from already trusted developers with a good history of releasing good games whether those games were crowdfunded or not, at least for the big amount of money funded games.

Without the crowdfunded games, I fear we would be left with the massive amount of garbage that the AAA market (which is easily 95% of AAA gaming) has been shoveling out for more than a decade, where they put creativity and innovation into the trunk, or with the massive amount of indie games where 95% of them are garbage, and even then the good ones have a low production values.  The Crowdfunding games give a way for developers to be more into the AA market, where they can make great games with creativity and innovation in the drivers seat and have a much higher production value than indie games.

Spunky Munkee

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Re: Star Citizen Media Articles
« Reply #206 on: September 05, 2017, 09:22:55 PM »
I bet Chris Roberts will be gratified to hear that you are willing to keep funding the game you want for however many more years are required. Most of us realize that with their broken mish mosh patched up game engine they probably won't ever get anywhere close to delivering anything remotely close to what he promised, at all. Given enough time and other people's money he might push out his minimally viable product (very minimal, more like an alpha ) and walk away from it, happy that he won't be up on charges.

In the end, regardless of what you think about crowdfunding, this game is badly broken, low on capital, and is losing consumer confidence. It all points to it's demise. Sure there are people who will keep sending in money till the doors are shuttered but they just prolong the end.

Moeis

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Re: Star Citizen Media Articles
« Reply #207 on: September 05, 2017, 09:55:58 PM »
I bet Chris Roberts will be gratified to hear that you are willing to keep funding the game you want for however many more years are required. Most of us realize that with their broken mish mosh patched up game engine they probably won't ever get anywhere close to delivering anything remotely close to what he promised, at all. Given enough time and other people's money he might push out his minimally viable product (very minimal, more like an alpha ) and walk away from it, happy that he won't be up on charges.

In the end, regardless of what you think about crowdfunding, this game is badly broken, low on capital, and is losing consumer confidence. It all points to it's demise. Sure there are people who will keep sending in money till the doors are shuttered but they just prolong the end.

First of all I only have $60 into this, and won't be spending anymore I never spend more than $60 for any crowdfunded game.
I have seen extremely less ambitious games that were developed by more seasoned teams that took 7+ years to develop and were still excellent games when they released.  So with these games being far more ambitious is the reason why I do not expect the game for at least 8 years for one of them to release. Some bumbs, scrapes, and bruises, and people making assumptions of their own do not scare me at all.  Anybody who didn't expect any bumbs, bruises, and scrapes along the way and funded these games did so in great ignorance.

Besides, even with Alpha 2.6 I already had a great amount of fun out of it.

Don't regret spending the money 1 bit, and currently have no worries at all.  Ask me again in 3+ years how I feel.

helimoth

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Re: Star Citizen Media Articles
« Reply #208 on: September 06, 2017, 12:49:32 AM »
First of all I only have $60 into this, and won't be spending anymore I never spend more than $60 for any crowdfunded game.

Don't regret spending the money 1 bit, and currently have no worries at all.  Ask me again in 3+ years how I feel.

This honestly is not a poor position to hold and I think if more of the shitizens had just simply donated their $60 and withheld anything further until croberts released something resembling anything close to the product he pitched then this project would not be the shitpit it resembles today. Unfortunately though what has happened is people showed their hand too early that they were willing to pay big $$ without receiving a product (whether due to naivety about croberts' background/sheer desire to see the project succeed, whatever it was) and croberts seized upon that and tried to leverage it hard by promising more to get more $$ in the coffers and thinking the scope would magically manage itself.

Your "spend $60 and wait and see" isn't really the position we are attacking on this forum (at least in my opinion). What I personally have an issue with is the lack of transparency of a project that was meant to have crystal-clear development when I've taken shits that had less opacity than CIG and the cult-like retaliation when anyone tries to hold croberts/CIG accountable for their promises.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 12:55:18 AM by helimoth »

Spunky Munkee

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Re: Star Citizen Media Articles
« Reply #209 on: September 06, 2017, 02:20:23 AM »
I really don't care if someone wants to spend $60 or $60,000 on that mess. I have given up on trying to convince anybody. My stating facts and in some cases my opinion is not meant to try and convince anybody, That is a fool's errand. It's more like the warning on the cigarette pack that many people disregard. Later on when they get incurable disease they recall all the warnings. I'm not mocking smokers but am always amazed at how many will willfully disregard every warning they get, regardless of their reasoning. Some only have $45 in (but argue like they have $6,000 invested), others say it is because they believe in the concept of crowdfunding indie games. It doesn't matter why they support this incompetent fast talking flim flam man, I enjoy seeing people disregard the signs along the way and I will relish the cries of anguish (not from $60 backers) from the chumps who spent hundreds and thousands on this pipe dream (crack pipe that is) all the while they were warned. People who don't want to get it won't, People who are receptive wind up on the SC Reddit refund page. Business is good lately.

 

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