Author Topic: Star Citizen Media Musings  (Read 298443 times)

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen Media Musings
« Reply #600 on: March 23, 2018, 07:23:47 AM »
Ah....so it IS true.

It's not unique to Star Citizen. All multiplayer games have performance issues with networking if not done correctly. Primary to that is when you have clients being sent data they shouldn't even be getting. And contrary to popular belief, that has more to do with clients have to process/update more 3D entities, than it does the size of the network packets. The latter is mitigated (somewhat) due to the fact that we're all on broadband now. It was a LOT worse in the old days.

Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen Media Musings
« Reply #601 on: March 23, 2018, 07:27:54 AM »
Quite bluntly...it doesn't have to be. It does appear to be a bottleneck, it does appear to have a negative impact on performance and whether you blame that on overutilisation of the network, lack of suitable filtering on the server side, the client side CPU getting hammered by network traffic or wherever, fixing that issue...even via a temporary bandaid...is still an improvement.

It's all largely irrelevant. What tweaks they made to the networking, is NOT resolution specific. So if it improves performance at 1080p, then it should do the same at 2K. But the performance between the two resolutions will NEVER be the same because it's more of a graphics issue, than it is a networking issue which determines that.

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Again, you appear to be arguing that the game has just one bottleneck affecting performance.

No I am not. In my previous post you just quoted me specifically saying that it's NOT one thing affecting performance.

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I don't believe that, nor do I think you do. Fixing the networking bottleneck could easily result in an improvement in performance by freeing up clientside CPU cycles, an improvement which can then be undone by maintaining an unrealistic resolution impacting the GPU which in turn can be fixed by reducing said resolution. Said improved performance will then continue until yet another bottleneck is hit...such as having several ships or players  onscreen at one time.

None of this means the netcode hasn't been improved or that overall performance hasn't improved. Nor does it mean it will.

Irrelevant. Again - we're arguing about performance differences between two DIFFERENT resolutions. Nothing else.
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

Kyrt

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Re: Star Citizen Media Musings
« Reply #602 on: March 23, 2018, 07:53:41 AM »
It's all largely irrelevant. What tweaks they made to the networking, is NOT resolution specific. So if it improves performance at 1080p, then it should do the same at 2K. But the performance between the two resolutions will NEVER be the same because it's more of a graphics issue, than it is a networking issue which determines that.

Take the situation where performance is bottlenecked by netcode, because...as an example...the CPU is so busy handling network traffuc that it cannot do anything else reliably.

Remove that bottleneck. Now the CPU can do its job because the netcode that took up all its attention before is much more manageable.

Now performance is great because the bottleneck that was the network is removed!!!

Except the networking was not the only bottleneck. It turns out there were two bottlenecks...the netcode and the GPU. Changing the resolution wouldn't affect any performance issue caused by the netcode. Now that the netcode bottleneck is (potentially) removed, the bottleneck caused by the GPU becomes more prevalent and so reducing the resolution does indeed cause a performance boost.

It doesn't matter what tweaks they made to the netcode because ultimately, the question is has performance improved. It only matters yes or no...has the netcode bottleneck issue been, at least, mitigated?

Yes...that wouldn't be affected by resolution. But any improvement to the netcode would mean other bottlenecks affecting performance would become more prevalent and those additional bottlenecks may very well. e affected by resolution.

 
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No I am not. In my previous post you just quoted me specifically saying that it's NOT one thing affecting performance.

You appear to be stating that there can be no meaningful network code improvements because resolution changes would essentially ignore such issues. In reality, resolution changes could affect performance easily if improvements in the netcode resulted in other bottlenecks becoming more prominent. 

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Irrelevant. Again - we're arguing about performance differences between two DIFFERENT resolutions. Nothing else.

All else being equal, reducing resolution will improve performance. But that in and of itself does not imply there were and are no improvements to the netcode or any other aspect of the game. That changing resolution may now result in performance increases when before it had little, if any, impact suggests that a bottleneck somewhere has indeed been mitigated.

jwh1701

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Re: Star Citizen Media Musings
« Reply #603 on: March 23, 2018, 09:13:11 AM »
Trying to quantify fps improvements in SC would be a very hard task. Even if I fully tested 1080p and 2k pre-patch then attempted to replicate that post patch it would be a hard task. Since we do not have an in game benchmark and the fps can swing so wildly we would need many attempts to graph out the gains. As a gamer and spending 11 years reproducing large scale datacenter issues I lean towards test side for this person's video. To make his claims valid he would have need to spend possibly a week playing at 1080p pre-patch to get some resemblance of a baseline fps. Then post update do the same thing again as one video is not sufficient given the fps issues in SC.

remedysolace

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Re: Star Citizen Media Musings
« Reply #604 on: March 23, 2018, 10:00:43 AM »
Isn't it funny that resolutions

jwh1701

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Re: Star Citizen Media Musings
« Reply #605 on: March 23, 2018, 11:55:47 AM »

Reclaimer Full Ship Walk through

Pretty cool seeing the scope and the size of it. Miss playing ED a little after watching, but I just got tired of the amount of time I spent at a loading screent.


Bubba

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Re: Star Citizen Media Musings
« Reply #606 on: March 23, 2018, 01:53:20 PM »
Look, you guys sound like the obverse of those dupes talking about what roles they're gonna play in this cig-verse that will never exist. Here's the point: Yes, frame rates have sucked, and yes, they have sucked for many reasons. No, nobody with any experience in the matter believes that one thing is the cause of it. Yes, most of us recognize that implementing their ever-growing feature set is only going to make things much worse. Yes, it is stupid to think that a few band-aids are gonna fix a problem that good games design around.

So, in the end, they could release a video shot on a mid-range PC at 40 fps, and it wouldn't change anything. They're still miles from delivery and they always will be. And the job of what's left of the avocados is to drum up support and excitement from the rest. Since they decided to release updates every three months, whether it's useful or not, they need to tout something.

And isn't 2k=1920x1080, just as 4k=3840x2160 and QHD is 2560x1440?


jwh1701

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Re: Star Citizen Media Musings
« Reply #607 on: March 23, 2018, 02:11:07 PM »
Look, you guys sound like the obverse of those dupes talking about what roles they're gonna play in this cig-verse that will never exist. Here's the point: Yes, frame rates have sucked, and yes, they have sucked for many reasons. No, nobody with any experience in the matter believes that one thing is the cause of it. Yes, most of us recognize that implementing their ever-growing feature set is only going to make things much worse. Yes, it is stupid to think that a few band-aids are gonna fix a problem that good games design around.

So, in the end, they could release a video shot on a mid-range PC at 40 fps, and it wouldn't change anything. They're still miles from delivery and they always will be. And the job of what's left of the avocados is to drum up support and excitement from the rest. Since they decided to release updates every three months, whether it's useful or not, they need to tout something.

And isn't 2k=1920x1080, just as 4k=3840x2160 and QHD is 2560x1440?

I certainly agree with you, reason I pondered earlier what he was calling 2k? I was thinking he thought 1440p or something all those lines was 2k. He had to of dropped from some resolution other than what some would call 2k or 1080p since he clearly referenced it.

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen Media Musings
« Reply #608 on: March 23, 2018, 02:40:44 PM »
Look, you guys sound like the obverse of those dupes talking about what roles they're gonna play in this cig-verse that will never exist. Here's the point: Yes, frame rates have sucked, and yes, they have sucked for many reasons. No, nobody with any experience in the matter believes that one thing is the cause of it. Yes, most of us recognize that implementing their ever-growing feature set is only going to make things much worse. Yes, it is stupid to think that a few band-aids are gonna fix a problem that good games design around.

So, in the end, they could release a video shot on a mid-range PC at 40 fps, and it wouldn't change anything. They're still miles from delivery and they always will be. And the job of what's left of the avocados is to drum up support and excitement from the rest. Since they decided to release updates every three months, whether it's useful or not, they need to tout something.

 :emot-bravo:
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen Media Musings
« Reply #609 on: March 23, 2018, 02:42:28 PM »
I certainly agree with you, reason I pondered earlier what he was calling 2k? I was thinking he thought 1440p or something all those lines was 2k. He had to of dropped from some resolution other than what some would call 2k or 1080p since he clearly referenced it.

Precisely. Since I didn't know what he was referring to as 2K, that's why I provided some 2K res examples in my post in the previous page. The fact that he also referenced 1080p, is what made it clear that he was previously at a higher resolution than 1080p.
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

jwh1701

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Re: Star Citizen Media Musings
« Reply #610 on: March 24, 2018, 07:58:48 AM »
Funny crawling animation on reddit

https://streamable.com/ro3q2

jwh1701

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Re: Star Citizen Media Musings
« Reply #611 on: March 24, 2018, 08:34:00 AM »
I took a screen shot of the performance video that day as I was waiting for him to correct the mistake. I will keep checking back in the video to see if he does. For all we know he may think 2k is 3840x2160, there is also a few threads today saying the reclaimer has substandard textures to other ships which is interesting. I have wondered if they will find performance by reducing the polygons and textures.




dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen Media Musings
« Reply #612 on: March 24, 2018, 09:06:28 AM »
I took a screen shot of the performance video that day as I was waiting for him to correct the mistake. I will keep checking back in the video to see if he does. For all we know he may think 2k is 3840x2160, there is also a few threads today saying the reclaimer has substandard textures to other ships which is interesting. I have wondered if they will find performance by reducing the polygons and textures.



That he says he doesn't think the resolution matters, is clear indication that he knows nothing. At all.
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen Media Musings
« Reply #613 on: March 26, 2018, 12:21:02 PM »
Oh you're gonna love this :emot-lol:


Don't FF to 5:42 or you'll ruin the surprise :)

« Last Edit: March 26, 2018, 06:44:03 PM by dsmart »
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

N0mad

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Re: Star Citizen Media Musings
« Reply #614 on: March 26, 2018, 12:53:26 PM »
Oh you're gonna love this :emot-lol:

I loved the bit where your name first got mentioned - you should have that as your ring tone.

 

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