Author Topic: Star Citizen General BS  (Read 566446 times)

JohnGorno

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #30 on: November 25, 2016, 02:19:49 PM »

I think that would be LoD though. And regardless of what it is now, because development, it is aiming to have a persistent universe where everyone plays in. And that is in fact per definition a MMO.

They won't even think or mention LoD though. Because you know, it doesn't have the benefit of $134 million budget and 500+ devs all of which amount only to fancy graphics. Aside from the fact that the game already has a 100% persistent world with no instancing or sharding. But just wait and see what happens in the coming months. That's why I don't even bother arguing with them about LoD.

What exactly about LoD is persistent? Character progression, base building, point capturing, weapon custimazation? While having "seamless" loading screens?
I can't remember any of those. No, not being persistent. Being existent in the ..game.

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2016, 03:25:29 PM »

I think that would be LoD though. And regardless of what it is now, because development, it is aiming to have a persistent universe where everyone plays in. And that is in fact per definition a MMO.

They won't even think or mention LoD though. Because you know, it doesn't have the benefit of $134 million budget and 500+ devs all of which amount only to fancy graphics. Aside from the fact that the game already has a 100% persistent world with no instancing or sharding. But just wait and see what happens in the coming months. That's why I don't even bother arguing with them about LoD.

What exactly about LoD is persistent? Character progression, base building, point capturing, weapon custimazation? While having "seamless" loading screens?
I can't remember any of those. No, not being persistent. Being existent in the ..game.

Do you know what "persistent" means, within the context of a game? Start there.

To answer your question. Everything in LoD is persistent because it was designed that way from the ground up and from the very start. The world, the server state, the player state (stats, weapons, inventory etc) etc - all of it. That's what an MMO is. If you'd played it, you would know that. http://lodgame.com
« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 03:35:14 PM by dsmart »
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2016, 03:33:17 PM »
So CIG updated the schedule. It's hilarious.

And apparently the calendar they used to create it the first time, had no knowledge of holidays.

The FUN:

Quote
GFORCES
This has been added to the scope of 2.6.0
Work has been completed by code and is now in progress with Animation.
Due to the Thanksgiving holiday, we expect that we won’t be able to set up a review until late next week
ETA is 2nd December
===
NETWORK – BIND CULLING
Due to some difficult to solve bugs progress has been slowed down on bind culling. This is because it’s proved extremely difficult to reproduce the bugs and find out the cause them.
Progress was also slowed due supporting bug fixes for the Livestream
ETA is 8th December (delayed from 23rd November)
===
There has been some delay in progress over the last week that has impacted the push to the Evocati, the issues have come up due to what we call our “Inclusions Process”. This is a process by which we select the various files and folders that we want to be in the build, and allow us to keep out any files that relate to work still in progress we’re not ready to release yet. This is a slow and manual process that is not without error as we have experienced this week, and also slowed further with the US offices being out on Thursday and Friday for Thanksgiving. However, we’re happy to say that we do seem to be over the worst of this now and are in a good position to catch the last of these problems next week

OLD



NEW

Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

JohnGorno

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #33 on: November 25, 2016, 04:26:11 PM »

What exactly about LoD is persistent? Character progression, base building, point capturing, weapon custimazation? While having "seamless" loading screens?
I can't remember any of those. No, not being persistent. Being existent in the ..game.

Do you know what "persistent" means, within the context of a game? Start there.

To answer your question. Everything in LoD is persistent because it was designed that way from the ground up and from the very start. The world, the server state, the player state (stats, weapons, inventory etc) etc - all of it. That's what an MMO is. If you'd played it, you would know that. http://lodgame.com

Okay then, let's assume for a moment we have two different ideas what the definition of persistent means for the user in a game.
For me that would be for an unrelated example: "Go in the game, destroy a house, get a modification for your gun and exp for your character. When you log of and come back two weeks later the house is still gone (if no one rebuilt it), you still have the mod and the exp on the character."

I played LoD several hours. I found nothing at all besides perhaps broken leaderboards that showed any kind of persistency.
In the game was nothing to capture. Nothing to change on my character. The only weapons I got beyond my starting weapons disappeared once I left the current map or relogged. When I tried to enter space with a ship I got blown away instantly. The only thing I could imagine that could somehow persist where I was not able to test it was the bodies of other dead players.

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #34 on: November 25, 2016, 05:09:59 PM »

What exactly about LoD is persistent? Character progression, base building, point capturing, weapon custimazation? While having "seamless" loading screens?
I can't remember any of those. No, not being persistent. Being existent in the ..game.

Do you know what "persistent" means, within the context of a game? Start there.

To answer your question. Everything in LoD is persistent because it was designed that way from the ground up and from the very start. The world, the server state, the player state (stats, weapons, inventory etc) etc - all of it. That's what an MMO is. If you'd played it, you would know that. http://lodgame.com

Okay then, let's assume for a moment we have two different ideas what the definition of persistent means for the user in a game.
For me that would be for an unrelated example: "Go in the game, destroy a house, get a modification for your gun and exp for your character. When you log of and come back two weeks later the house is still gone (if no one rebuilt it), you still have the mod and the exp on the character."

There is only one definition of persistent in a game. Star Citizen didn't invent it, nor have they implemented it. Game is still instanced. So there is that.

Quote
I played LoD several hours. I found nothing at all besides

You have to be specific. What did you expect to "find"?

What has this to do with persistence?

Quote
perhaps broken leaderboards that showed any kind of persistency.

The leaderboards work just fine. They always did. Unless you have a TAK account, your stats won't show on it.

Quote
In the game was nothing to capture.

Such as? There is no capture mechanic in the game, because the world event isn't implemented yet.

What has this to do with persistence?

Quote
Nothing to change on my character.

You're talking about player customization - which the game doesn't have, nor support.

What has this to do with persistence?

Quote
The only weapons I got beyond my starting weapons disappeared once I left the current map or relogged.

Your inventory is 100% persistent. You always have it.

Anything you pickup in the world, doesn't carry over when you change scenes. That's by design - and that restriction is currently placed on both Starter Kit and TAK accounts for testing and game balancing reasons as indicated here - at the top. In the final game, only the Starter Kit will have this restriction.

What has this to do with persistence?

Quote
When I tried to enter space with a ship I got blown away instantly.

That's patently false. Unless you haven't played the Build 00.09.07.15 released on 16-10-04 and which completed Phase I of the space defense systems which only allowed them to fire when fired upon. During implementation and testing, they fired at any target within range.

What has this to do with persistence?

Quote
The only thing I could imagine that could somehow persist where I was not able to test it was the bodies of other dead players.

Dead bodies don't and shouldn't linger. For performance and respawn reasons, they are removed after a few seconds. Just like in every single game, persistent or not.

Again, what has this got to do with persistence? Here, let me help you with that:

  • player state
  • player stats
  • player inventory
  • world state
  • server state
  • jump-in / jump out

Those are the building blocks of a "persistent" game. The entire LoD game world is 100% persistent; which is why you can login to the server at any time, and it would still be running, and on the planet it could be any time of day (dawn, dusk, night etc). You can login see a client or asset in one place, log out, log back in, go to that location and interact with the same client|asset if it's still there. And it was designed and developed that way - from the ground up - before we even put any assets in it.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 05:11:51 PM by dsmart »
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

JohnGorno

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2016, 08:09:41 AM »
Again, what has this got to do with persistence? Here, let me help you with that:

  • player state
  • player stats
  • player inventory
  • world state
  • server state
  • jump-in / jump out

Those are the building blocks of a "persistent" game. The entire LoD game world is 100% persistent; which is why you can login to the server at any time, and it would still be running, and on the planet it could be any time of day (dawn, dusk, night etc). You can login see a client or asset in one place, log out, log back in, go to that location and interact with the same client|asset if it's still there. And it was designed and developed that way - from the ground up - before we even put any assets in it.

Alright, so you're saying that the player inventory is persistent and so is the LoD game world to 100%. Now if I pick up weapons from a crate, they go into my inventory, right? When I relogged (or the game crashed randomly), those weapons were gone everytime. To your definition I could "login to the server at any time", and my inventory, because persistent, would still be the one from before when I logged out. What is persistent are the starting weapons I had based on my starting kit. But nothing I picked up in the game was ever carried between two sessions. I always had to pick up new guns when I reentered a map.

When I said "there was nothing" I was referring to the assets you talk about. I mean, what exactly is there on a map to interact with? Weapon crates, medi kits and I think the prison cells on that one carrier.

For changing things on my character: This goes both for visuals like the skins you linked there (which apparently are not in the game so we can't say anything about persistence there) or character progression as described here in the FAQhttp://i.imgur.com/UFBCYIn.png. So far I can't find any of that in the game.

To summarize: My points dare to question where persistency is in effect in this game. I named examples where it could be, but isn't.

So what exactly is persistent in that game besides 100% which apparently isn't? That it is one server running 24/7 regardless of how many people are playing? That on that 24/7 server is a timer for when the sun is up and when not? Because that is everything besides aircrafts that actually ever changes the position as far as I can tell.

However, nothing of the character is ever saved between sessions. When I create a character and play for a few hours it means fuck all because as soon as I relog my progress is gone. And given that there are no server events means that this is another point where nothing is happening.

When I log into the game, there must be some reason to do it. Some goal. But without any events or targets to go for, with no progression system at all why would anybody play this game? What is this game then about? Planetside 2 has both. I can level my character, unlock class traits (and switch between classes), unlock weapons and attachements for aircrafts, vehicles and handheld weaponry while playing in a truly persistent enviroment where not only my stats are registered on leaderboards and rewards are gained that persist between sessions. But also every single continent has it's three-faction war with ever changing frontlines that are resembled by capture points across said continents.

From what I gathered that LoD is trying to sell here it is pretty much that, but with a somewhat different setting and the additional layer of space combat - that to my expierence has the same flight model as something other a continent.

Which also makes me think: Why should I go and sit in a fighter and fly around in space? For what reason?

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2016, 09:54:24 AM »
Again, what has this got to do with persistence? Here, let me help you with that:

  • player state
  • player stats
  • player inventory
  • world state
  • server state
  • jump-in / jump out

Those are the building blocks of a "persistent" game. The entire LoD game world is 100% persistent; which is why you can login to the server at any time, and it would still be running, and on the planet it could be any time of day (dawn, dusk, night etc). You can login see a client or asset in one place, log out, log back in, go to that location and interact with the same client|asset if it's still there. And it was designed and developed that way - from the ground up - before we even put any assets in it.

Quote
Alright, so you're saying that the player inventory is persistent and so is the LoD game world to 100%.

Yes

Quote
Now if I pick up weapons from a crate, they go into my inventory, right?

Yes - or you won't be able to use/equip them.

Any item you start the game with (e.g. default Starter Kit or TAK items), or pick up in the game world, becomes part of your inventory.

As previously mentioned, currently (due to on-going dev and testing) items picked up in the world or in a pack/crate, are not preserved when you move from one scene (e.g. Heatwave) to another (e.g. Arkangel). Which is also why, when you logout, they are also removed because you don't "own" them. What you "own" is i) what comes in the kit (Starter|TAK) you purchased ii) what you buy in the item shop (via the supply platform) - which is why only those items are preserved/stored in your inventory.

Quote
When I relogged (or the game crashed randomly), those weapons were gone everytime.

A game crashing has no relevance to your inventory storage because it's not stored client-side (on your machine). It's stored on the dB server as soon as you pick it up or if you already own it.

Quote
To your definition I could "login to the server at any time", and my inventory, because persistent, would still be the one from before when I logged out. What is persistent are the starting weapons I had based on my starting kit. But nothing I picked up in the game was ever carried between two sessions. I always had to pick up new guns when I reentered a map.

This was already explained in my previous post; and also above.

Quote
When I said "there was nothing" I was referring to the assets you talk about. I mean, what exactly is there on a map to interact with? Weapon crates, medi kits and I think the prison cells on that one carrier.

If you know how the game works (try reading the docs maybe?), you would know what you can interact with, how etc. The game is pure PvP; so there are no missions, quests etc - hence nothing in the world to interact with other than other players, items, weapons, terminals, aircraft, vehicles etc.

e.g. if you want an asset (aircraft or vehicle), you go create it a supply platform. The detention hold in the Starguard carrier are part of a game mechanic related to the Hostile Incarceration (already implemented and works) World Event.

And in the upcoming updates related to the ground vehicles and planetary defense systems, you will be able to use any/all ground vehicles - just like aircraft.

Quote
For changing things on my character: This goes both for visuals like the skins you linked there (which apparently are not in the game so we can't say anything about persistence there)

I already answered this question which is already in the FAQ entry previously linked.


No.

You can only customize your class.

You will be able to buy one of four (Red, Yellow, Green, Blue) different color schemes for your player’s armor and which you can switch to any time in real-time.


Quote
or character progression as described here in the FAQhttp://i.imgur.com/UFBCYIn.png. So far I can't find any of that in the game.

I already answered this question which is already in the FAQ entry previously linked.


Character progression is handled in various ways:

Combat Kills:You accumulate these based on combat actions against the enemy.

Combat Experience Points:Through various combat actions (e.g. kills), you gain CEP.

Ranks:The accumulation of CEP awards you various combat ranks and decorations (medals, ribbons). These are also dynamic; in that depending on your CEP count, you can lose rank and decorations over time.

Combat Training Certificates: These are used to improve certain character attributes and skills.
The combination of CEP and CTC is critical to character progression and the combination allows you to build up your character class as you see fit. You can chose to be a stealth player (sniper) whose sole purpose is to aggravate the forces behind enemy lines, while sneaking around and hacking into base units. Or you can choose to be heavy infantry guy with various weapons of mass destruction.

More info: What are CEP and CTC


Quote
To summarize: My points dare to question where persistency is in effect in this game. I named examples where it could be, but isn't.

And you were wrong in every instance. Maybe try reading it all again.

Quote
So what exactly is persistent in that game besides 100% which apparently isn't? That it is one server running 24/7 regardless of how many people are playing? That on that 24/7 server is a timer for when the sun is up and when not? Because that is everything besides aircrafts that actually ever changes the position as far as I can tell.

Wrong. See above

Quote
However, nothing of the character is ever saved between sessions. When I create a character and play for a few hours it means fuck all because as soon as I relog my progress is gone. And given that there are no server events means that this is another point where nothing is happening.

Wrong. See above

Quote
When I log into the game, there must be some reason to do it. Some goal. But without any events or targets to go for, with no progression system at all why would anybody play this game?


The game is still in development. And it's pure PvP.

Quote
What is this game then about? Planetside 2 has both. I can level my character, unlock class traits (and switch between classes), unlock weapons and attachements for aircrafts, vehicles and handheld weaponry while playing in a truly persistent enviroment where not only my stats are registered on leaderboards and rewards are gained that persist between sessions. But also every single continent has it's three-faction war with ever changing frontlines that are resembled by capture points across said continents.

Planetside 2 is a finished game. And we're not making Planetside 2 (plus, we already have All Aspect Warfare); so ofc it has different game modes and features e.g.

- we don't have/need/want "frontlines" because that's not how the game works or was designed
- leaderboards work just fine
- character progression (leveling) works just fine
- character inventory system and stats work just fine
- all the implemented weapons, attachments and items, all work just fine
- all the aircraft work just fine; and vehicles are upcoming
- the World Events (gameplay PvP mods) are designed based on the game's core mechanic

Quote
From what I gathered that LoD is trying to sell here it is pretty much that, but with a somewhat different setting and the additional layer of space combat - that to my expierence has the same flight model as something other a continent.

That argument is like saying Battlefield 1 is like Call Of Duty. It's a silly one.

Quote
Which also makes me think: Why should I go and sit in a fighter and fly around in space? For what reason?

If you don't know why you want to be in a game, there is no reason for you to be playing it. So don't?

The fighter mechanics, unlike the repetitive "go-flip-a-switch" nonsense, are there for PvP space combat. And it's not just between clients, but also against faction owned stations and the carrier which are part of the game's World Events. Those mechanics work just fine. There are no "missions" because it's not that kind of game; wasn't designed to be, and isn't going to be.

Just like all my games, LoD, unlike that other game, isn't trying to, nor aspiring to cater to everyone, nor is it pitched or designed to be a game that's all things to everyone - let alone a BDSSE. It has a specific and distinct focus, and target audience that are not subject to change. You either like it or you don't. If you don't, don't buy it, don't play it. There are many other games to choose from.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2016, 09:59:18 AM by dsmart »
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

JohnGorno

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2016, 12:47:56 PM »
Again, what has this got to do with persistence? Here, let me help you with that:

  • player state
  • player stats
  • player inventory
  • world state
  • server state
  • jump-in / jump out

Those are the building blocks of a "persistent" game. The entire LoD game world is 100% persistent; which is why you can login to the server at any time, and it would still be running, and on the planet it could be any time of day (dawn, dusk, night etc). You can login see a client or asset in one place, log out, log back in, go to that location and interact with the same client|asset if it's still there. And it was designed and developed that way - from the ground up - before we even put any assets in it.

Quote
Alright, so you're saying that the player inventory is persistent and so is the LoD game world to 100%.

Yes

Quote
Now if I pick up weapons from a crate, they go into my inventory, right?

Yes - or you won't be able to use/equip them.

Any item you start the game with (e.g. default Starter Kit or TAK items), or pick up in the game world, becomes part of your inventory.

As previously mentioned, currently (due to on-going dev and testing) items picked up in the world or in a pack/crate, are not preserved when you move from one scene (e.g. Heatwave) to another (e.g. Arkangel). Which is also why, when you logout, they are also removed because you don't "own" them. What you "own" is i) what comes in the kit (Starter|TAK) you purchased ii) what you buy in the item shop (via the supply platform) - which is why only those items are preserved/stored in your inventory.

Quote
When I relogged (or the game crashed randomly), those weapons were gone everytime.

A game crashing has no relevance to your inventory storage because it's not stored client-side (on your machine). It's stored on the dB server as soon as you pick it up or if you already own it.

Quote
To your definition I could "login to the server at any time", and my inventory, because persistent, would still be the one from before when I logged out. What is persistent are the starting weapons I had based on my starting kit. But nothing I picked up in the game was ever carried between two sessions. I always had to pick up new guns when I reentered a map.

This was already explained in my previous post; and also above.

Quote
When I said "there was nothing" I was referring to the assets you talk about. I mean, what exactly is there on a map to interact with? Weapon crates, medi kits and I think the prison cells on that one carrier.

If you know how the game works (try reading the docs maybe?), you would know what you can interact with, how etc. The game is pure PvP; so there are no missions, quests etc - hence nothing in the world to interact with other than other players, items, weapons, terminals, aircraft, vehicles etc.

e.g. if you want an asset (aircraft or vehicle), you go create it a supply platform. The detention hold in the Starguard carrier are part of a game mechanic related to the Hostile Incarceration (already implemented and works) World Event.

And in the upcoming updates related to the ground vehicles and planetary defense systems, you will be able to use any/all ground vehicles - just like aircraft.

Quote
For changing things on my character: This goes both for visuals like the skins you linked there (which apparently are not in the game so we can't say anything about persistence there)

I already answered this question which is already in the FAQ entry previously linked.


No.

You can only customize your class.

You will be able to buy one of four (Red, Yellow, Green, Blue) different color schemes for your player’s armor and which you can switch to any time in real-time.


Quote
or character progression as described here in the FAQhttp://i.imgur.com/UFBCYIn.png. So far I can't find any of that in the game.

I already answered this question which is already in the FAQ entry previously linked.


Character progression is handled in various ways:

Combat Kills:You accumulate these based on combat actions against the enemy.

Combat Experience Points:Through various combat actions (e.g. kills), you gain CEP.

Ranks:The accumulation of CEP awards you various combat ranks and decorations (medals, ribbons). These are also dynamic; in that depending on your CEP count, you can lose rank and decorations over time.

Combat Training Certificates: These are used to improve certain character attributes and skills.
The combination of CEP and CTC is critical to character progression and the combination allows you to build up your character class as you see fit. You can chose to be a stealth player (sniper) whose sole purpose is to aggravate the forces behind enemy lines, while sneaking around and hacking into base units. Or you can choose to be heavy infantry guy with various weapons of mass destruction.

More info: What are CEP and CTC


Quote
To summarize: My points dare to question where persistency is in effect in this game. I named examples where it could be, but isn't.

And you were wrong in every instance. Maybe try reading it all again.

Quote
So what exactly is persistent in that game besides 100% which apparently isn't? That it is one server running 24/7 regardless of how many people are playing? That on that 24/7 server is a timer for when the sun is up and when not? Because that is everything besides aircrafts that actually ever changes the position as far as I can tell.

Wrong. See above

Quote
However, nothing of the character is ever saved between sessions. When I create a character and play for a few hours it means fuck all because as soon as I relog my progress is gone. And given that there are no server events means that this is another point where nothing is happening.

Wrong. See above

Quote
When I log into the game, there must be some reason to do it. Some goal. But without any events or targets to go for, with no progression system at all why would anybody play this game?


The game is still in development. And it's pure PvP.

Quote
What is this game then about? Planetside 2 has both. I can level my character, unlock class traits (and switch between classes), unlock weapons and attachements for aircrafts, vehicles and handheld weaponry while playing in a truly persistent enviroment where not only my stats are registered on leaderboards and rewards are gained that persist between sessions. But also every single continent has it's three-faction war with ever changing frontlines that are resembled by capture points across said continents.

Planetside 2 is a finished game. And we're not making Planetside 2 (plus, we already have All Aspect Warfare); so ofc it has different game modes and features e.g.

- we don't have/need/want "frontlines" because that's not how the game works or was designed
- leaderboards work just fine
- character progression (leveling) works just fine
- character inventory system and stats work just fine
- all the implemented weapons, attachments and items, all work just fine
- all the aircraft work just fine; and vehicles are upcoming
- the World Events (gameplay PvP mods) are designed based on the game's core mechanic

Quote
From what I gathered that LoD is trying to sell here it is pretty much that, but with a somewhat different setting and the additional layer of space combat - that to my expierence has the same flight model as something other a continent.

That argument is like saying Battlefield 1 is like Call Of Duty. It's a silly one.

Quote
Which also makes me think: Why should I go and sit in a fighter and fly around in space? For what reason?

If you don't know why you want to be in a game, there is no reason for you to be playing it. So don't?

The fighter mechanics, unlike the repetitive "go-flip-a-switch" nonsense, are there for PvP space combat. And it's not just between clients, but also against faction owned stations and the carrier which are part of the game's World Events. Those mechanics work just fine. There are no "missions" because it's not that kind of game; wasn't designed to be, and isn't going to be.

Just like all my games, LoD, unlike that other game, isn't trying to, nor aspiring to cater to everyone, nor is it pitched or designed to be a game that's all things to everyone - let alone a BDSSE. It has a specific and distinct focus, and target audience that are not subject to change. You either like it or you don't. If you don't, don't buy it, don't play it. There are many other games to choose from.

So to summarize the fact that in this 100% persistent game currently nothing of value besides leaderboards are persistent and things that are actually relevant like character progression are not. Or actual goals in the game like the server events where you at the one point say they are not in the game and then the next post that they're "already implemented and work"ing? You can link to your FAQ all you want, it doesn't change the fact that those printed words do not reflect the reality of those mechanics simply failing to be exist.

And when you pulled a Trump and only said "WRONG" you basically said that ther is not one server running 24/7 regardless of how many people are playing? That on that 24/7 server is no timer for when the sun is up and when not? Which together with the crates lying around at predetermined places that are not moveable and created aircrafts would be the only parts that actually showed persistency at any level here?

Also, I was wrong about that nothing about my character is saved? But then you said it yourself "Nothing about the character is saved"?

To the question "Why would anybody play the game if there is no content to achieve" you answered with "It's in development.". What are you trying to say with that? Since when is "being in development" the reason to play the game?

The comparison to PS2 is deflected with a BF1 to CoD comparison for what reasons exactly? The latter are vastly different in mapsizes, gamemodes, hell, CoD doesn't even have vehicles, only kill streaks. In Battlefield you are the Killstreak. For this comparison to be legit here you'd have to say that both games do not have (promised) fights on huge persistent ever changing maps on foot, on air and in vehicles, which they both try to achieve. The only difference here is that LoD also wants to feature naval warfare (which does not exist in the game) and the space settings which are the same aircrafts now in an area without the ground.

So yes, a comparison is VERY legit as there are design-wise at best with ever changing world events something else that LoD eventually wants to offer while PS2 strictly goes for PvP around capture points and ultimately continental lockdown.

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2016, 05:07:20 PM »
Before I respond to your latest, I would like to make a few things clear.

I know who you are, and I've seen the discussion and your involvement on Reddit (/r/ds) discussion regarding this forum/thread.

I had made it clear before, that this forum is not for the discussion of Line Of Defense; as there are no less than three official places to discuss it with those who actually own and are helping us playtest it.

From your statements, it is clear that you neither own, nor have you played LoD. Because anyone who has both owned and played it at some point in time, would have the answer to everything I already stated here; and would also know about the game, how it works etc - especially since it comes with full documentation (inline and on the website). All you're doing it taking statements from your band of brothers in an attempt to i) troll me ii) make a Star Citizen discussion, about LoD. This despite the fact that the games have nothing in common; other than the fact that they have a space component. To be clear, one is independently funded and will be completed, and the other is crowd-funding; and by all accounts, stands no such chance of ever being completed. The attempts to compare both games has always been a hilarious non-starter; but here we are.

Your arguments are ludicrous, and your trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, simply isn't going to work. When someone isn't willing to debate and discuss in good faith, it is pointless to continue to engage them because, as per your posts, nothing the other party says, will ever be acceptable because it goes against the narrative and the intent of the other party. People like that have no place here. Take that shit to Reddit and the RSI forums.

So...

So to summarize the fact that in this 100% persistent game currently nothing of value besides leaderboards are persistent and things that are actually relevant like character progression are not.


Wrong. You are free to ignore everything previously written, or the fact that the game (which you clearly haven't played) has all the elements previously mentioned - that won't change the facts.

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Or actual goals in the game like the server events where you at the one point say they are not in the game and then the next post that they're "already implemented and work"ing? You can link to your FAQ all you want, it doesn't change the fact that those printed words do not reflect the reality of those mechanics simply failing to be exist.

Wrong. And clear evidence that you haven't played the game. If you had, you would know that the game has five World Events; two (Incursion, Hostile Incarceration) of which are already implemented and working. While the other three rely on components not yet implemented due to the fact that, well, the game is still in development (and we actually have an accurate roadmap).

And "character progression" has no relevance to the game modes. That involves EP (implemented) and ranks (NYI). Nothing else. There is no leveling up. There are no "skills". This is a pure twitch based PvP game with various character classes (all with unique attributes). And as much as you want to ignore the FAQ, character progression is accurately documented there as well.

So maybe try reading the "printed words" again. Slowly this time.

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And when you pulled a Trump and only said "WRONG" you basically said that ther is not one server running 24/7 regardless of how many people are playing? That on that 24/7 server is no timer for when the sun is up and when not? Which together with the crates lying around at predetermined places that are not moveable and created aircrafts would be the only parts that actually showed persistency at any level here?

Those are your words. You can mangle them all you like, but it won't change what I've written, nor the facts.

The game is 100% persistent. It was designed and developed that way. It's not something that go cobbled on top.


WHAT IS LINE OF DEFENSE?

Line Of Defense is a multi-platform (PC, XBox One, PS4) sci-fi multiplayer online game in which two (Galactic Command military and Insurgent paramilitary) military teams wage a massive war. Battles take place on a planet and in space as fps infantry, or with the use of various air, land, sea, and space vehicles.

The game’s hybrid tech supports both dedicated server (standard massive multiplayer) as well as peer-to-peer (client hosts and plays) session hosting for PC and consoles. It supports a large number of players in a persistent, non-sharded, non-instanced, game world.

The game is designed and developed by the small indie team at 3000AD, Inc, the leader in high-end advanced sci-fi based games. It went into active development in 2010. In 2011, we started to build a new custom game engine powered by Havok Vision Engine (previously Trinigy Game Engine) and a variety of other middleware technologies. You can read more about this and the game’s visual style, in our dev blogs (1, 2, 3, 4)

The game has also spawned an RTS companion game, Line Of Defense Tactics, which is currently out on various platforms, including Xbox One.

There are also a series of comic books created in co-operation with DC Comics.


The server which runs the game world is 24-7, uses timers (yikes! how else could you possibly do it I wonder!), is just that: persistent. If you owned or have played the game, you would know all this because even the planet has a 3hr time span (compared to Earth's 24hrs).  I'm not sure where you think all those screen shots (by us and other users) showing different TOD came from or were generated. And if you had played the game, you'd know all of this because no matter how many times you login to the game, it will always been at a different TOD.

The packs (weapons, medical, supply) were put there as a way to give testers the ability to obtain and test various game assets (weapons, attachments, inventory) quickly, including how storage is handled. They were implemented in Build 00.09.03.09 released 02-25-15. Again, if you owned and have played the game, you'd know this - because it's in the docs. And even though they are static (like all such elements in all games), their content storage is not. They change and replenish over time. Again, if you'd played the game, you'd know that because you won't be able to get the same items all the time.

Clearly you don't know anything about "persistence" and are just arguing for the sake of arguing because it burns that Star Citizen has zero persistence; and there's no getting around that.

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Also, I was wrong about that nothing about my character is saved? But then you said it yourself "Nothing about the character is saved"?

Try reading it again. It's in English. If English is not your first language, ask someone to translate it for you.

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To the question "Why would anybody play the game if there is no content to achieve" you answered with "It's in development.". What are you trying to say with that? Since when is "being in development" the reason to play the game?

Another one of your stupid arguments. You posed the question. I gave you an answer. And that answer bears no relevance to what you are not stating. Your commentary was about the game in it's current state. And my answer was specific to it, in that the game is still in development and anyone who wants to play it now, has to play what's there.

Also, the game is PvP. Do you even know what that means? Sure you do; but you're just going around in circles, while trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. If you don't know what you can "achieve" in a game of this type, then you probably shouldn't be playing it. Ask yourself this: what do you "achieve" in Star Citizen which playing Arena Commander, racing, the PU. Think hard, it might hurt, by go for it.

Quote
The comparison to PS2 is deflected with a BF1 to CoD comparison for what reasons exactly? The latter are vastly different in mapsizes, gamemodes, hell, CoD doesn't even have vehicles, only kill streaks. In Battlefield you are the Killstreak. For this comparison to be legit here you'd have to say that both games do not have (promised) fights on huge persistent ever changing maps on foot, on air and in vehicles, which they both try to achieve. The only difference here is that LoD also wants to feature naval warfare (which does not exist in the game) and the space settings which are the same aircrafts now in an area without the ground.

That's on you. I never brought up any comparisons, you did. And it was just as ludicrous as everything else you're writing. Go back and read what you wrote. And if you don't under why I made that Battlefield vs COD comparison, then you're truly clueless and/or ignorant. And in which case, you're on your own.

Quote
So yes, a comparison is VERY legit as there are design-wise at best with ever changing world events something else that LoD eventually wants to offer while PS2 strictly goes for PvP around capture points and ultimately continental lockdown.

Actually no, it's not. Just because you think, write, or say it, doesn't make it so. And again, if you had actually played LoD, or know enough about it, you'd understand why the comparison (as you've stated them) are completely and utterly ludicrous. Might as well compare Star Citizen to Elite Dangerous; which is even more hilarious.

Anyway, I think this pretty much covers it. If you want to discuss LoD, go to one of the places where is being discussed, and engage people who own and play it. Just be sure to let them know that you don't actually own it, we can tell from the Steam account.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2016, 05:55:20 PM by dsmart »
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #39 on: November 28, 2016, 08:51:55 AM »
I continue my discussion about scene sizes with Ben Parry.

Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #40 on: November 28, 2016, 12:17:07 PM »
I have updated the OP with more links and pertinent info.
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #41 on: November 28, 2016, 01:21:03 PM »
2.6, which got refactored (see comparison) by a week in the schedule is supposedly going out to Evocati this week!!  :supaburn:
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #42 on: November 29, 2016, 12:50:54 AM »
I think some of the disconnect is with people who are either a) new to the project, or b) casual observers.  They look at the site, they look up Chris's history (but only scratching the surface, oh look, he made Wing Commander, I heard of that), they read some gamer articles, and the natural conclusion, even a logical one, is "OK this game looks good, and it is in development.  4 years is fine, it will probably take longer.)

Can we really expect the casual observer to understand what's really happening at CIG?  What Chris's actual game development history and credentials reveal?  Can we expect the average person to know, just by looking, how badly this studio has been approaching the project?  How much money has been blown by filming millions of dollars of motion capture before the game engine is working?  Failing to even know what anyone will DO in this game before making tons of ships to sell?  The fact that there's no flight model or working anything?  And over 100 other little factoids that reveal that this isn't actually a development studio - it's a cargo cult.

The average person reads articles, sees screenshots, and assumes what 99% of the planet assumes - a developer is working on a game.  They simply look at what actual game developers and publishers are doing, and use that template to extrapolate what they think will happen with CIG.

CIG's business model relies on this mistake occurring indefinitely.  Once they release anything concrete, people will see this project for what it really is.  Then the real fun begins.

This is what makes the whole press coverage of SC extremely damaging.

It is a bit like the US election.  Instead of the media reporting what is going on they are giving SC plenty of free uncritical coverage that generates more sales.     

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #43 on: November 29, 2016, 06:59:00 AM »
I think some of the disconnect is with people who are either a) new to the project, or b) casual observers.  They look at the site, they look up Chris's history (but only scratching the surface, oh look, he made Wing Commander, I heard of that), they read some gamer articles, and the natural conclusion, even a logical one, is "OK this game looks good, and it is in development.  4 years is fine, it will probably take longer.)

Can we really expect the casual observer to understand what's really happening at CIG?  What Chris's actual game development history and credentials reveal?  Can we expect the average person to know, just by looking, how badly this studio has been approaching the project?  How much money has been blown by filming millions of dollars of motion capture before the game engine is working?  Failing to even know what anyone will DO in this game before making tons of ships to sell?  The fact that there's no flight model or working anything?  And over 100 other little factoids that reveal that this isn't actually a development studio - it's a cargo cult.

The average person reads articles, sees screenshots, and assumes what 99% of the planet assumes - a developer is working on a game.  They simply look at what actual game developers and publishers are doing, and use that template to extrapolate what they think will happen with CIG.

CIG's business model relies on this mistake occurring indefinitely.  Once they release anything concrete, people will see this project for what it really is.  Then the real fun begins.

This is what makes the whole press coverage of SC extremely damaging.

It is a bit like the US election.  Instead of the media reporting what is going on they are giving SC plenty of free uncritical coverage that generates more sales.   

Right. Thing is that most of the mainstream media have caught up to the fact that they're going to be on the losing end of this. Kinda like all the NMS hype and noise. So they either have stopped covering the game entirely, or only just post top level news verbatim. Hence all those fake news from a reputation management company that are now flooding the Internet.
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #44 on: November 29, 2016, 03:53:58 PM »


We're getting word that 2.6 has been released to Evocati and there is now a Reddit thread with confirmation from CIG.

CIG said that 2.6 (which was due out since June 2016, including Star Marine which was due out in April 2015) would be released in 2016. That was even as they were promoting 3.0.

That would mean dev -> Evocati -> standard -> live. All in 2016. That's what the current schedule says, even with the recent change as per these diffs.

Most of us already knew that 2.6 being released in 2016 was a fantasy dream, which, like 3.0, CIG made up in order to boost backer confidence in order to keep getting funding. I called that one back on Sept 13th and again on Nov 2nd.

If Evocati are going to get 2.6, this late in Nov, it stands to reason that 2.6 going live in 2016 isn't happening. Which, depending on how broken it is, would mean a live release sometime in 2017. Which means no SQ42 in Q1/17 either. I don't even.

Seemingly the 3.0 (aka Jesus Patch) is now all but a memory.



UPDATE: Today's Evocati release doesn't include Star Marine. Yeah.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2016, 08:05:06 PM by dsmart »
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

 

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