Author Topic: Star Citizen - The Game  (Read 168684 times)

Motto

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 721
Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #1215 on: September 22, 2017, 08:13:51 AM »
If you want a realistic simulation, you really should give High Frontier a try. The builder even did a TedX about it. 


dsmart

  • Supreme Cmdr
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2311
    • Smart Speak Blog
Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #1216 on: September 22, 2017, 06:38:49 PM »

FF to 15:0 and 18:50

They don't have a vertical slice yet, let alone a game. But that's not important though, because they're working on all these immaterial things like air (LOL!!) traffic controllers. You know, because Elite Dangerous has that.

Quote
Benjamin Anders (System Designer):
...and you will talk only specifically to that AI and that will give the response.

So there is an air traffic controller entity which is a combined version of the SEATS that we already have and the useable system other designers are working on, and the AI will basically sit down and then have SENSORS or FEELERS you could say, um... to... check how many ships are in the radius, what ships request LANDING, what pads are free, what are occupied, what are the DIFFERENT stations of occupation of these pads and then will according to that, will address landing pads to players.

There's a couple of (inaudible) ones for special stations like LEVSKI or GRIM HEX or PORT OLISAR and there's also like a GENERIC one, a GENERIC computer system which also picks up if there's for whatever reason, no flight operator available. Because our flight operators are actually like physically placed in the station, so... you could basically stand in the station, see him talking to someone and whoever is on the ship will see the same thing. So it's a... uh... ONE TO ONE TRANSITION.

Let's say that station gets attacked or that guy is out of an emergency or whatever, he's not there, we have a BACKUP system that picks up with just a generic computer voice and that will handle the flight operation then.

So every flight controller is its own AI. When you hailing a tower to request landing or takeoff, you're gonna be in contact with an actual SUBSUMPTION DRIVEN AI which, um, has... depending on the station a unique voiceline or a generic one...

Something that a bog standard FSM can handle quite easily, gets completely blown out of proportion to the point where not only are they NEVER going to be able to implement it as stated, without chopping it all back - like they do with everything promised these past years - but they completely blew it out of proportion. Because you know, somehow that makes so much sense.

Seriously, FUCK those guys.  :argh: At one time it was easy to just put the blame on the top level execs who were driving the direction of this train wreck; but these clowns go on camera to say shit like this - knowing it's all pure an utter bullshit. It's easy to just lump them all in on this on-going scam. It's a paycheck, and they're getting paid to bullshit backers. The SAME shit that if they do to publishers - and the producer gets wind of it - gets people fired, and projects canceled.

And you should see half the shit that the CIG guys are spouting in the ETF channel. It's absolutely amazing.

UPDATE: Meanwhile, over at the Goon enclave, SomethingJones has a transcript of the new ATV up.

IF YOU NEEDED ANY FURTHER EVIDENCE THAT THIS PROJECT IS FUBAR & THAT THEY'RE JUST MAKING SHIT UP AS THEY GO ALONG, THIS WOULD BE IT


STRAP YOURSELF IN and prepare to dive inside CIG's well-oiled development machine.

Around The Verse Sep 21, 2017

@ 01:20
UK Leads Meeting


Matthew Webster (assoc producer):
Erin is very keen to go to Evocati THIS WEEK, um... so what we've done is, em... is severely cut down the PTU 'must fix' list, those 21 issues are the ones that we really need to focus for... like, the focus for this initial push to Evocati is the experience of the first HOUR, TWO HOURS or so...

The... the directors and the executive took a REALLY good look at what they wanted to do for our first release to Evocati cos... cos we're REALLY keen on getting this out to... to the Evocati group and start... for them to start testing things.

LA Project Leadership Meeting



Erin Roberts:
...basically the idea is to get JIRA right, get JIRA used properly...

Chris Roberts
Yeah yeah yeah, a hundred percent you should... JIRA should be used right and... labelled right and timeline should be a juror so anyone can open the JIRA and see more details in the comments.

What I want is... a... like very QUICK top level view from the producer of their group, calling out like what their kinda ISSUES are

UK Project Leadership Meeting


Rickey Jutley:
The thing that I asked QA to do today in the leads meeting is, I wanted them to just HIGHLIGHT the ones that THEY think are BIG... em... ev ah... Evocati issues that aren't on this list and send that filter to YOU, we'll recommend what we think out of the thirteen issues that they've highlighted, we think probably should be fixed... I think there's one or two that we think, 'you know what it's worthwhile', but ERIN, it's for YOU to make that CALL, then, um, you can let us know if you wanna add them or not

LA Global Leads Meeting

Erin Roberts:
I can just sit with the guys locally here, I don't need 20 people in there I just need to sit wif... one or two guys and then we'll just go through the process... cos I'm more interested in right now just how fuu... how... how... it FEELS when you get out, get... get a SHIP... take off... go to a place... and I DO think... if we can get the fix in for um... for the ah... for the em... for the ATC markers in, then that will be GOOD.

LA Directors Leads Meeting

Erin Roberts:
Please, just be careful of what you're checking in, don't just get on, on Friday night, check something in and go home... that's for your own... I'm not having a go at U.S., but also just sort of take care, make sure you get, you know CHECKED and so forth and things cos that costs us more time than anything when basically the build BREAKS and then we gotta (inaudible)... you know it kills you HERE, it kills us in the UK, you know we come in in the morning and we've got 4 hours at LEAST before we have to find the big fix and then by the time of the end of the day we've got a build and... so we need to make sure that everyone is being really CAREFUL when doing that stuff and I'd rather everyone took an EXTRA HOUR and make sure the BUG'S FIXED and then um, then try and rush on to the next one.



WARNING Verbal diarrhea incoming
This is the single most surreal transcript I have done to date.

Star Citizen: Around the Verse - Sep 21, 2017

@ 09:58
Mike Jones (Director of Corporate and Publishing Technology):
My team is responsible for DIGITAL PUBLISHING, and with 3.0 imminent we've been doing a lot of work to, uh... ENHANCE OUR SYSTEMS AND EXPAND OUR CAPABILITIES, and so I feel like we're ready to PUBLISH, uh... pretty much ANYTIME, uh... we get a selected build that's READY TO GO

@ 15:00
Carlos Pla Pueyo (Gameplay Programmer):
With the air traffic controller we have tried to ah... get a FEELING of a REALISTIC SITUATION, so... when REAL LIFE when you have different PLANES coming to an airport you need some kind of CONTROL, you need RULES, you need a way of making sure that everything is going to PLAN. So we have been trying to get the same behavior in... in a STAR CITIZEN so... up to now when you approaching a station you just have to... LAND and that's it. Now, you have to REQUEST landing which implies a communication with SOMEONE, an NPC which can be a REAL NPC or a AUTOMATIC VOICE...

Automatic Voice:
One hangar comin' up!

Carlos Pla Pueyo:
...telling you where you can LAND, or if there's no space available or anything like that. And there's also a controller were how much you can stay in a landing pad, eh... like security measures and so on.

Benjamin Anders (System Designer):
Right now players can just land everywhere they want, there is nothing controlling them, there is nothing saying, 'oh you should PARK HERE', there's no rules to that, and we needed to find a system that basically co ordinates landing, taking off, and also creating more IMMERSION on what actually like flight controllers are.

Bob Rissolo (Dialogue Supervisor):
The CONCEPT behind our game is to be very REALISTIC in what we do, so we do a lot of research in anything that goes on and especially... that DEFINITELY does not uh... uh... leave out the air traffic controllers, so we've done a lot of RESEARCH into what air traffic controllers DO. When... when we were ON SET in... in... and ah... FILMING and PCAP it... it was... it was really important you know cos the game was... er... really much FILMED LIKE A MOVIE and as we... as we went about TRACKING and trying to manage and maintain the CONTENT it was very clear that we needed to focus on the IMPLEMENTATION side and to use that as a way to track how the... the PCAP should be cut up and the way it should be ORGANIZED so... UTILIZING THAT BACKGROUND OF IMPLEMENTATION I made sure that we TRACKED OUR PCAP in a way that was ultimately feasible to edit... edit the project and... and... and... and uh... actually track how... how it was being cut up and... and uh... and... on... on the uh... on the EDITING BOARD.

It's really a BEHAVIORAL THING and so while we can record all the context and all the different dialogue that we want, it really becomes... you know it really comes down to our SYSTEMS to really be able to handle it, and yeah, our engineering team is just phenomenal, they... they are really pushing the boundary of what AI can really HANDLE, and making it a really systemic... ah... ah... MODULE OF BEHAVIOR so it's not just like, you know, 'oh these guys do this thing or whatever', it's a real AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER MODULE that... that... that... that's DEFINING all of these BEHAVIORS and... and... and it's not even just ONE VOICE that's defining the whole BALLET of all the different, you know, PEOPLE DOIN' ALL THE SIGNALS and the AI is saying, 'you can GO and you have to TAKE OFF or you can LAND, you go HERE', you know, all those kind of things... it's... it's... it's... it's a WHOLE BALLET of all these uh... uh... CHARACTERS involved.

Benjamin Anders (System Designer):
Well one of the more complicated things is that it's not working like in REAL LIFE where everyone behaves as they should be, right? So it's still a GAME and players so what they WANT sometimes, so we need to make sure to have RULES in place which allow players to actually have an IMMERSIVE EXPERIENCE but also don't abuse other players as well and have like, PUNISHMENT almost, um... when they not follow the RULES

Bob Rissolo (Dialogue Supervisor):
You have to account for the silly stupid things like a player strafing the station, or uh, flying too close and you know they have to react in a way it's... it, eh... you know... it ah... ah... it's both HELPFUL to the player haha, let's not do that haha! But, eh... but it's also... it's... it's... it's a GAME you know, it HAPPENS and it's FUN, ENTERTAINING.

Benjamin Anders (System Designer):
So every flight controller is its own AI. When you hailing a tower to request landing or takeoff, you're gonna be in contact with an actual SUBSUMPTION DRIVEN AI which, um, has... depending on the station a unique voiceline or a generic one...

Subsumption AI Flight Controller:
There! Should be waiting for you in the hangar!

Benjamin Anders (System Designer):
...and you will talk only specifically to that AI and that will give the response.

So there is an air traffic controller entity which is a combined version of the SEATS that we already have and the useable system other designers are working on, and the AI will basically sit down and then have SENSORS or FEELERS you could say, um... to... check how many ships are in the radius, what ships request LANDING, what pads are free, what are occupied, what are the DIFFERENT stations of occupation of these pads and then will according to that, will address landing pads to players.

There's a couple of (inaudible) ones for special stations like LEVSKI or GRIM HEX or PORT OLISAR and there's also like a GENERIC one, a GENERIC computer system which also picks up if there's for whatever reason, no flight operator available. Because our flight operators are actually like physically placed in the station, so... you could basically stand in the station, see him talking to someone and whoever is on the ship will see the same thing. So it's a... uh... ONE TO ONE TRANSITION.

Let's say that station gets attacked or that guy is out of an emergency or whatever, he's not there, we have a BACKUP system that picks up with just a generic computer voice and that will handle the flight operation then.

Bob Rissolo (Dialogue Supervisor):
If you think about it we have a big amount of content to get, you know, like a big piece of cake, the SPONGE is the primary... the BIG PART of what we do. But there's also... cake needs some ICING, needs some FLAVOR, and so we... we... like to... ah... um... you know... have a giant, general sort of VOICE SET that is used across the... the... the GALAXY, and we also like to have some nice specific characters that are placed in locations and give a good flavor to certain things like for instance, LEVSKI, we have a general ATC but we also have this flight ops dude in um... in LEVSKI that's kind of like a California dude like me

Flight Ops California Dude AI:
Hey there! On behalf of the People's Alliance, WELCOOOOME to Levksi! The name's (inaudible), I run the hangars here which is GREAT for you 'cos you're prob'ly lookin' to land!

Bob Rissolo (Dialogue Supervisor):
He's a good character and he provides a lot of good character to that... to that LANDING SPACE, and uh... it's FUN for players to enjoy that specific character set rather than having a... just a big universe of... always general, you know characters running around.



Meanwhile the automagically disappearing issues continues in full swing.



They started removing stuff since the Sept 8th update. This is how they went from a few dozen issues to a hand full.

In this article I wrote about the early access announcement, their release schedule is all over the place.

Quote
STAR CITIZEN MAJOR MILESTONE BUILDS

3.0 (w/ planet/moon access etc), ??/??/??
2.6.3, 04/27/2017
2.6.2, 03/31/2017
2.6.0 (w/ Star Marine fps module), 12/23/2016
2.4.0 (/w/ ArcCorp shopping), 06/08/2016
2.0  (w/ Persistent Universe, Multi-Crew Ships), 12/11/2015
1.2 (w/ ArcCorp social module), 08/28/2015
0.8 (w/ Arena Commander dogfighting module), 06/04/2014
0.x (w/ Hangar module), 08/29/2013

So apparently they are going to be releasing parts of 3.0 to Evocati over time, until they get the full (scaled down since the 2016 promise) 3.0 promise to Evocati, then PTU, then live release. Which is when all hell is literally going to break loose. Guaranteed.

Since we have people in Evocati, I am waiting to see if that first release has the promised seamless space<->moon transitions or #justanotherlevel
Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living. If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead ...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them.

dsmart

  • Supreme Cmdr
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2311
    • Smart Speak Blog
Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #1217 on: September 22, 2017, 06:40:58 PM »

MTBFritz over at FDev has one of his masterpiece posts up. This time he's taking on this ATV bullshit.

He totally nailed it.

Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living. If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead ...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them.

Aya Reiko

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 59
Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #1218 on: September 22, 2017, 11:11:48 PM »
These idiots are too busy showing off the curtains to the guest bedroom when they haven't even done the foundation yet.  This game is fucked.  I hope the Avocado isn't all just yes-men and those who aren't rip "3.0" a new one.  I'd love to see Chris's face when someone finally straight up tells him his game just plain sucks.  I'd expect it would go from complete elation to utterly dour.


maxsimal

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #1219 on: September 23, 2017, 08:37:01 AM »
Best Damn Schadenfreude Simulator Ever.

Actually, it's not simulated.

As a game dev, I admit to some amount of jealousy, initially, about a guy getting to build his dream game, with oodles of cash, no publisher to answer to, and all the time anyone would ever need to build a space sim.  A space sim!  No offense to you Derek, but space sims are much easier to build than most other types - compare the math behind flying in space to the math behind getting a reasonable water interaction model going for a boat game and you wonder how they've managed to fail at even getting a working flight model.  How are they failing to get netcode working when the physics interactions are so much simpler to model than something involving landscape?  Well, of course, they decided to do all that planetary stuff, but c'mon.

So, while I'm in the sweat mines working on my own project, dealing with our publishers, I gotta say it's fun coming over here and seeing how badly CR has cocked things up.   My only lament is that no actual, good designer/project manager will get the chance to do this.

dsmart

  • Supreme Cmdr
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2311
    • Smart Speak Blog
Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #1220 on: September 23, 2017, 09:20:44 AM »
Best Damn Schadenfreude Simulator Ever.

Actually, it's not simulated.

As a game dev, I admit to some amount of jealousy, initially, about a guy getting to build his dream game, with oodles of cash, no publisher to answer to, and all the time anyone would ever need to build a space sim.  A space sim!  No offense to you Derek, but space sims are much easier to build than most other types - compare the math behind flying in space to the math behind getting a reasonable water interaction model going for a boat game and you wonder how they've managed to fail at even getting a working flight model.  How are they failing to get netcode working when the physics interactions are so much simpler to model than something involving landscape?  Well, of course, they decided to do all that planetary stuff, but c'mon.

So, while I'm in the sweat mines working on my own project, dealing with our publishers, I gotta say it's fun coming over here and seeing how badly CR has cocked things up.   My only lament is that no actual, good designer/project manager will get the chance to do this.

^this all of it, pretty much.

One thing is certain, Croberts has once again served to be the poster child of what not to do when you're developing a game with other people's money, and no oversight.
Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living. If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead ...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them.

dsmart

  • Supreme Cmdr
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2311
    • Smart Speak Blog
Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #1221 on: September 23, 2017, 09:29:49 AM »
I am just putting this here for the record.



So in last night's newsletter, which always comes out with the dev schedule (more on that later), two things jumped out at me from this sentence.

Quote
"so players can experience the excitement of piloting their ship from space into atmosphere and across one of Crusader’s moons"

1) God I hope that's just the idiot who wrote that, not knowing how to construct a sentence for clarity reasons. Because if they are really releasing 3.0 (or a subset thereof) with only one moon ---> fucking  :lol: because the fallout would be amazing.  :magical:

Erring on the side of common sense, I'm just going with the notion that the sentence doesn't mean they are releasing it with only one moon, but rather he was trying to express the notion of being on one of the moons.

2) So they are stating that they do have the ability to go from space to a moon or planetoid. Though how they are doing that, is still left to be seen. I know some backers are hoping that whatever they release, puts to bed that whole "seamless" space<->planet transition bullshit to rest. I can't wait.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2017, 09:41:57 AM by dsmart »
Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living. If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead ...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them.

nightfire

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 193
Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #1222 on: September 23, 2017, 09:54:32 AM »
1) God I hope that's just the idiot who wrote that, not knowing how to construct a sentence for clarity reasons. Because if they are really releasing 3.0 (or a subset thereof) with only one moon ---> fucking  :lol: because the fallout would be amazing.  :magical:

Hey, that's exactly what Frogbear said on Discord!  :D

Quote
wacky moon language and emotional cues are carried through it so badly

Kyrt

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 97
Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #1223 on: September 23, 2017, 10:54:31 AM »
I wasn't trying to deflect it to be about LOD, rather I was explaining why I feel you are so emotionally invested into Star Citizen, to the point of it effecting the rest of your life in a bad way.

Why would it affect his life in a bad way?

**HE** hasn't got money invested in the game.

As for why....the game is of interest and he was invested. Until he started "asking questions" and not getting answers and was booted.
If he has the spare time to point out the flaws in the project - and there are a great many of them - that's up to him.

It is, I think, a bit much to think he is having much of an impact. He is making noise, but funding has remained relatively high....at least until CIG show off their demos.

I think the reaction of people such as yourself to Derek Smarts observations is much more interesting. I do not think you would be getting so defensive if, at some level, you didn't think he had a point.

Quote
There is more I can say about LOD and the evidence about the development has come to a crawl, but like I said that wasn't my point anyways.

Well...the thing is, your evidence is mostly that he appears to have stopped releasing patches, stopped talking about it. Which is false.

He doesn't talk about it as much as CIG does about SC - but CIG are doing things wrong here. They shouldn't be talking about the game at all until their engine and netcode and flight model are finished. That way they can worry about he basic foundations of the game without worrying about the PR.  Maybe once Alpha starts they could release a few trailers, but all these talks and vids and more are - IMO anyway - mostly a mistake. Developing the game engine isn't flashy, but it is kinda necessary and CIG haven't done it.

Your "lack of progress" appears to be business as normal for every developer except CIG.

Aya Reiko

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 59
Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #1224 on: September 23, 2017, 10:55:15 AM »
What we saw at GDC17 is what is going to be 3.0; An asteroid base and one moon.  Both with copy and paste terrain and no other content at all.


N0mad

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 222
Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #1225 on: September 23, 2017, 11:06:57 AM »
What we saw at GDC17 is what is going to be 3.0; An asteroid base and one moon.  Both with copy and paste terrain and no other content at all.

The first iteration of 3.0 will be like 2.6.3 with three moons and slightly less content (I guess they're going to remove those stupid missions).

Can't wait to hear the backlash when it hits Avocado testing. NMS have added base building, ground vehicles, capital ships, a whole new alien race and a new story in the same time that 3.0 has managed to give us 3 moons to land on, all from a team a fraction of the size of CIG.

Backer42

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 88
  • Refundian
Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #1226 on: September 23, 2017, 11:36:17 AM »
As a game dev, I admit to some amount of jealousy, initially, about a guy getting to build his dream game, with oodles of cash, no publisher to answer to, and all the time anyone would ever need to build a space sim.
[...]
So, while I'm in the sweat mines working on my own project, dealing with our publishers, I gotta say it's fun coming over here and seeing how badly CR has cocked things up.   My only lament is that no actual, good designer/project manager will get the chance to do this.
I learned a lot from this. About game development.  :)

ChrisIhao

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 30
Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #1227 on: September 23, 2017, 11:45:22 AM »

MTBFritz over at FDev has one of his masterpiece posts up. This time he's taking on this ATV bullshit.

He totally nailed it.

Is this TV-shop or something?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Motto

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 721
Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #1228 on: September 23, 2017, 12:18:37 PM »
So, there will be a moon. A barren rock with nothing to do but fly over it or drive on it with a buggy. That'll be fun for 5 minutes or so. And then what? Waiting for the next patch?

nightfire

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 193
Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #1229 on: September 23, 2017, 12:36:28 PM »
And then what? Waiting for the next patch?
Yes. But not without weeks and months of intense theorycrafting over there about all the exciting features and bug fixes 3.0.1 will bring, as well as what the new concept ships can do and what to melt for what. Don't worry, they'll be fine and continue to get their money's worth out of following the game development experience. As long as they have the meta-game in the forums, they'll be fine.

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk