Author Topic: Star Citizen General BS  (Read 856011 times)

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - General
« Reply #1905 on: March 23, 2018, 06:49:27 PM »
FF to @ 6:34 where they're now doing a poll (backer access only) of their own roadmap. I kid you not.

This is an absolute bombshell which cannot be ignored. It basically means that time and time again, whatever schedule and roadmap they've put up in order to appease backers and to keep money coming in, has been pure and utter bullshit. Just as I've been saying for YEARS now.

Also looking to release 3.1 despite the fact that right now, not everything is completed.

Watch:


Quote
with alpha 3.1 just released to wider testing group in ptu and live release week away our dev teams and designers are looking ahead at alpha 3.2 features and content as part of this we evaluate where we are set priorities and make adjustments while also looking at quality of life issues in the current gameplay we thought it would be useful to get your input on what potential aspects are important to you as far as this goes so look for community poll tomorrow to help us with our roadmap

Then came this...


Hightlights:

11:36 // 3.0 was rushed out
12:36 // 8000 bug's fixed from 3.0 to 3.1
13:26 // 7 yrs later, it's still "early days"
16:20 // 3.2 scope reduction
21:32 // yup, 3.0 was rushed out
23:15 // progress has been slow; even with the number of people they have
29:55 // LOL!! Bind Culling didn't make it into 3.1. Not happy!
42:13 // we have a "full featured" game <-- :emot-lol:
54:08 // Arena Commander needs polish, but don't have workforce to do it; but will improve by year end



Gorf's take :

THE POLL - TEXT & SUBTEXTS

The Spectrum Poll is out and what a picture it paints. On the whole, itís an uncharacteristically adroit decision that ó maybe for the first time in CIGís history of Community Relations ó shows meaningful attempts at proactive engagement on fundamental development choices that matter. (Polling whales to get permission to scope creep doesnít count as it was a foregone conclusion from the start.)

Chris has misallocated developer priorities for the entirety of the project in his compulsive hunt for the next buck. Itís been asset-centric in the extreme and always bent towards relentless monetization. Itís also seen the constant hijacking of developer hours for crunch binges so as to crank out new marketing demos to serve fundraising purposes to repeat the annual cycle.

The Poll suggests a different permission-seeking is underway. A pragmatic, pre-emptive one seeking to reduce the scale of their Road Map deliverables in 2018, because despite the dramatic deliverable reductions 3.0 already was forced to undergo in 2017, the revised 3.x plans that shook out from that are still too ambitious to realistically commit to.

It only makes Chrisís Gamescom 2016 overpromising sins all the more egregious in hindsight, and suggests Roberts concocted that fictional roadmap completely without any consultation from his development team. At all. The poll also makes clear that the core gameplay professions of the 2012 Space Sim pitch (Mining, Salvage, etc.) still have not commanded sufficient developer resources to be robust by Year 6. Textual bloviations scripted years back to convince the naive that professions were already architected do not constitute game design. It seems certain CIGís efforts will, like Cargo, feel like a fidelitous execution of a Year 1 effort because no developer/game design was tasked with trying to flesh out a working prototype long ago. Why waste time fleshing out and perfecting the fundamentals when there are so many trivialities always commanding Roberts attention and so many monetization efforts more deserving of developer allocation?

I donít mean to carp too much because on balance, it is a positive change and as one not rooting for the failure of CIG, I applaud it. It is not surprising at all to have heard Roberts talk about morale improvements coming about as a result of their latest efforts. What he did not say and probably can not say is that morale suffered because his priorities have been so misguided and his leadership so lacking...

Anyway, here is the Poll if it hasnít already been posted...

Quote
Alpha 3.2 Feature Survey

As the team prepares to release the Alpha 3.1 patch of the Persistent Universe to a wider selection of backers, we wanted to take an opportunity to use what weíve learned from this first quarterly release and reassess development priorities, with feedback from you, the players.

If youíve been following along with our public Roadmap, the producers, directors, and leads have prioritized the introduction of major profession-based mechanics (like mining, salvage, and manual repair) into each quarterly release, along with improvements to gameplay features introduced in Alpha 3.0 and 3.1 (like quantum travel and service beacons.) While these mechanics have the potential to introduce new ways to play and expand the functionality of certain ships, they require extensive development resources and take time to fine-tune to make sure they balance with the other mechanics that already exist in the game.

Part of what we learned through this latest release cycle was that existing elements in the game werenít getting adjustments and improvements that would improve usability and polish because the resources that would do this work were focusing on implementing the brand new mechanics on the Roadmap. As we feel like this has been short changing the current game experience, weíve decided to adjust our efforts to dedicate some of our resources to improve and expand the existing features, while making sure that new profession-based mechanics are as polished and playable as possible. Basically, we want to ensure that whatís there is as refined and fun as it can be, before we add too much more.

Thatís where you come in.

As we shuffle the features and mechanics, we wanted to know which features you are most excited about seeing implemented, improved and refined. Below youíll find brief descriptions of the feature improvements on our schedule, we invite you to weigh in on which of these features you would rate as top three priorities to get into the game.

Feature Improvements

Quantum Linking

This feature gives players the ability to sync up with their friends when making quantum jumps. Aside from making grouped multi-ship travel possible, Quantum Linking also helps if you are interdicted, as the friends you brought along with you can help. This system will be used in tandem with AI or player-created missions through the service beacon, so the people hired to help will be linked to you when they jump.

Improved Interdiction

Work on this feature will create a variety of different interdiction scenarios for players, as well as provide the opportunity to trap other players and AI Non-Player Characters using a Quantum Jammer that can be added as a ship component or deployed in a self-powered buoy, like a mine.

Service Beacon Improvements

The Service Beacon will expand and evolve to include new contract types, additional filters, and more feedback precision. AI characters will be able to interface with the system so that they too will be able to request help and provide assistance to others, which will in turn increase both how much of this type of ďimmediateĒ content we can offer at any given time, as well as the likelihood that someone Ė whether player or Non-Player Character Ė will be drawn to respond to your calls for support.

First Tier of Guilds & Associations

We are going to create member associations within the Universe that give players different benefits. These will ultimately include the Bounty Hunterís Guild, Merchantís Guild, etc., but there will also be member\-based services, themed to fit different player types. For example, the United Wayfarers Club provides repair and refuel assistance for pilots broken down in space and also grants discounts for these services at CryAstro.

Party System

These improvements will improve the playerís ability to create groups, allowing you to team up with friends to join the same game instance and cooperate on jobs and missions.

Team Chat

Improvements to the team chat system that will polish communication between players and make the experience more robust and intuitive. Work on this system will also begin to factor in the incorporation of Spectrum into the game.

Economy/Shopping UI Experience

The feature includes the implementation of Shopping Kiosks in the stores and increased variation of available products, including ship items and weapons not physically available to display (or even buy) in stores.

Item 2.0 Ship Systems and Weapons

Feature work would include finalizing Item 2.0 functionality that, allows them to overheat, misfire and suffer critical failures based on factors such as increased wear or damage. It would also introduce deeper functionality to upgradeable items so new power plants, shields, coolers, stealth and comms/radar all make a marked difference to the shipís performance based on how they are configured.

FPS AI Combat

The first stage of getting combat AI into the Persistent Universe. This would expand mission types by introducing the risk that an AI could be waiting to ambush you on a distant moon, or in a hulk drifting in space.

Select your highest priority, second highest priority and third highest priority. You can also select one profession-based mechanic (salvage, repair, refuel) that should be prioritized for 3.2, however, mining will still have the highest priority and you cannot vote on that decision



SomethingJones transcript of key parts

Quote
Star Citizen: Reverse the Verse LIVE - Alpha 3.2 Feature Survey w/ Chris Roberts
March 23rd, 2018


@07:50

Chris Roberts:
3.1 ah, is definitely performing better that 3.0 and ah, you know, that's going to continue on as we work on some of our more LONG TERM things we talked about, which, you know, OBJECT CONTAINER STREAMING will help with ah... sort of MEMORY... we've got ASYNCHRONOUS SPAWNING that we're getting CLOSER to have working PROPERLY

It's... it's... quite... COMPLICATED to get working because the game wasn't built... ah... it was just built to... create things on the main THREAD and it... it... so... you know people PROGRAM things assuming they can touch anything at any one time which you can't do when you're on, um... MULTIPLE THREADS ehm.

So... and it's SUCH a big codebase that it requires a lot to retrofit it and/or change things out, uh, REFACTOR them to be a NEW THING.

So all those will make like... so for instance if you PLAY and some AI spawn in there'll be a HITCH because they have to LOAD IN and there's a STALL on the main thread until things LOAD IN... but ah, LONG TERM that will go away because that will just sort of... they'll LOAD IN in the BACKGROUND when they're READY, the main thread will be NOTIFIED and BAM! They'll be TURNED ON so...

So wuh... so we're putting all these things in place and so I'm feeling really quite good about it, we've added ah... some NEW FEATURES like the SERVICE BEACON STUFF, ah... there's been a lot of the sort of UI IMPROVEMENT and POLISHES that I think people have noted and LITTLE THINGS like the, eh... you know... PROCEDURAL... GROUND... ah... so you know, sort of, ah...

...FOLLOWING, ah, you know... I've noticed quite a few people posting VIDEOS... I'm LIKING THAT, this is GOOD!

Aahh... and ah... we've tried to... ahm... work in, ah, some things to, ah... you know... IMPROVE ah, like INTERDICTION and stuff like that, ah... and... and... ah...

So GENERALLY it's going pretty well, this will be our first one and uh, we know we've gotta EARN the... the... the BELIEF or the TRUST of everyone ha-haha!

Uh, uhrr, uhmm... so you know we say we're doing QUARTERLIES we actually do QUARTERLIES, ehm, so... this one will be a GOOD STEP, the next one will be a GOOD STEP, ahm... but aahh... so it's GOING GOOD.

One of the reasons why we're doing this SHOW here is, ah... we... we've ah... you know... the best way to do this is as we've planned out a ROADMAP but obviously you just sort of check in where you're at, when you sort of get your RELEASE out, so like, OK...

THIS is what we're going to do for 3.2...
THIS is what we're going to do for 3.3...
...3.4...

All the THINGS that we want to... FIX or change that we didn't foresee when we first did this roadmap... ah, or you know, the things that we wanna address for QUALITY OF LIFE or things we could do in the game to make the gameplay right now feel BETTER... ah, because ultimately you know... I mean the AMOUNT of functionality in the game we have right now, if it all works together and works well, is more that a lot of released games.

I mean, you know... SEA OF THIEVES just came out and, you know, we have like MORE VARIETY OF MISSIONS, a HELL OF A LOT MORE SHIPS, a BUNCH MORE STUFF that you can do, and a LOT MORE AREA TO PLAY IN

But you know THEY spent a lot more time polishing some of their... their BASIC STUFF... I know people complain that they still want more FEATURES and that, cos gamers are generally like, 'I WANT MORE! I WANT MORE!' all the time... But I mean, we've been talking internally about, you know, Star Citizen is not a SPRINT it's a LONG... ha-haha! It's... It's... very... you know... it's more than a MARATHON you know, it's more like a WALK AROUND THE WORLD



Quote
Star Citizen: Reverse the Verse LIVE - Alpha 3.2 Feature Survey w/ Chris Roberts
March 23rd, 2018


@11:38
Chris Roberts:
If you look at 3.0 we put a VAST amount of things into it, but we didn't spend enough time making sure the BASE STUFF was working well, so what you had was a whole bunch of new FEATURES but a lot of stuff that used to work in 2.6 or before that ended up not being as good or being BROKEN... so we've been fixing a bunch of that in 3.1 but we've still got more to do, ah, so you know, we've got things that we wanna... ehh... ADDRESS and... you know... uhm, you know... HOW IT FEELS WHEN YOU FLY AROUND, we're not... we're not...

IFCS and the flight model still has a bunch of work we wanna do, ah, you know... the FEEL of FPS moving around, again, same stuff... so uh, eh... you know... it's a... uh... sort of... LONG TERM SLOG

@12:37
Chris Roberts:
So that's the phase we're at, this is what we'll do every single, ah... we sort of do it as we're coming up to the release, we're assessing it just to make sure all the teams are ALIGNED, ah, you know, our NEW PRODUCTION PROCESS is working REALLY WELL, we've, you know... we've FACTORED into a sort of much more sort of TEAM BASED AGILE SCRUM, ah... and... our sort of VELOCITY in terms of, ah... FIXES and ehh, ahh... and RESOLVING ISSUES is much much better, I mean we've... I think we've resolved something like 8,000, um... uh... uh... um... during... 3.1? I can't... quite... around... and then... and I think it was like 15,000 for the whole of 3.0 which was basically a year.

@13:27
Chris Roberts:
I think the team's working together, uhm... ah... cos we've really... we WORK to try to put everyone together like HERE'S THE PROGRAMMERS, HERE'S THE DESIGNERS, it's like... hey, you know, you're VEHICLE FEATURE TEAM ONE, you're VEHICLE FEATURE TEAM TWO, you're GAMEPLAY... TEAM

And you've got the DESIGNERS and the ENGINEERS and the ARTISTS and we're actually putting them all together.

And we're trying to CO-LOCATE people so the teams are sort of oriented in the various studios, we're not having them spread between timezones as much as we used to.



@16:25
Chris Roberts:
And we'll also get some feedback on some of the bigger LONGER TERM professions, what's INTERESTING or what's the MOST IMPORTANT to you guys, MINING's already been in progress, it's started at the beginning of this year, I know that in our roadmap it says SCHEDULED but it's already been IN PROGRESS. That should be changing in the next, uh... ehr... the... the next ROADMAP, I don't know if it'll be this Friday but the one afterwards.

But we've been working on that, there's a lot of infrastructure issues in terms of making sure the resources are mapped on the planets and we can persist them across the instances. And we can generate it and handle all the stuff. We're making very good progress on that, I think it's going to be a very cool, uh... FEATURE.

« Last Edit: March 24, 2018, 12:11:48 PM by dsmart »
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

N0mad

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Re: Star Citizen - General
« Reply #1906 on: March 24, 2018, 03:02:21 AM »
I've seen several vids on the Reclaimer now, and whenever they access a workstation it doesn't seem to actually function - the screen just shows the standard power balance options. Even the remote turret workstation doesn't work, which I would imagine would be important.

So have they just added a ship without adding any of the gameplay it was actually designed for?

If you ever need proof that Star Citizen is just a giant walking-around-looking-at-the-shiny-graphics simulator - then this ship is it. Still, I've noticed the fanboys loving it.

jwh1701

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Re: Star Citizen - General
« Reply #1907 on: March 24, 2018, 07:35:18 AM »
Gorf provided and interesting view on the poll. I think they are taking the pulse of backers and seeing if they can generate more ship sales. Chris has a road map and he's now where near the end the end of the 6mill kickstarter. Maybe I don't understand the poll contents but it seems totally inconsequential to the larger base problems with the game. Plus the fact that backers got excited by the poll that to me is not even addressing adding much depth to the current state is crazy.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2018, 09:10:25 AM by jwh1701 »

David-2

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Re: Star Citizen - General
« Reply #1908 on: March 24, 2018, 08:53:57 AM »
Quote from CR:

Quote
"It's... it's... quite... COMPLICATED to get working because the game wasn't built... ah... it was just built to... create things on the main THREAD and it... it... so... you know people PROGRAM things assuming they can touch anything at any one time which you can't do when you're on, um... MULTIPLE THREADS ehm.

So... and it's SUCH a big codebase that it requires a lot to retrofit it and/or change things out, uh, REFACTOR them to be a NEW THING.

So all those will make like... so for instance if you PLAY and some AI spawn in there'll be a HITCH because they have to LOAD IN and there's a STALL on the main thread until things LOAD IN... but ah, LONG TERM that will go away because that will just sort of... they'll LOAD IN in the BACKGROUND when they're READY, the main thread will be NOTIFIED and BAM! They'll be TURNED ON so..."

From time to time people have said that CR hired only very inexperienced devs.  But people saying that didn't actually offer proof.  And I thought that was ridiculous because it was so stupid - you obviously hire a mix of experience and skill.

But no, not true.  Anyone who has programmed a UI - Windows, Mac, Linux, Android, iOS - any kind of UI not just a game, knows, and I mean knows that you do as little on the main thread as possible.  This has been known for years and years.  Decades.  Literally, decades.

The main thread runs the UI.  Updates all the things you need to display. At 60fps (mobile rates, not apparently gaming rates which are apparently faster) you get 16.6ms to do everything you need to do per frame. And that is very little time.  You seriously can't do anything on the main thread that is not directly update related if you want to achieve any sort of fluidity or if you're at all interested in consistent frame-to-frame rates (lack of which leads to horrible judder).

Everything is created on the main thread?  They spawn AIs on the main thread?  Something, whatever it is, has to LOAD IN on the main thread?

I. Can't. Even.

When I say anyone who has programmed a UI knows this - I mean everyone.

So it is true:  CR hired no programmer who knew anything.  From the beginning.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2018, 08:58:57 AM by David-2 »

N0mad

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Re: Star Citizen - General
« Reply #1909 on: March 24, 2018, 09:18:36 AM »
I'm not really sure you can deduce very much from the nonsense that comes out of Chris's mouth.

He likes to throw in some technical terms to make the fans think he knows what he's doing.

David-2

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Re: Star Citizen - General
« Reply #1910 on: March 24, 2018, 09:31:58 AM »
I'm not really sure you can deduce very much from the nonsense that comes out of Chris's mouth.

He likes to throw in some technical terms to make the fans think he knows what he's doing.

Oh I know.  Still it's fun to suspend disbelief for a moment and consider what he says as if it were true. 

Because first, it's like using reductio ad absurdum to show that he only ever talks pure nonsense, and second, because it's hilarious.

krylite

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Re: Star Citizen - General
« Reply #1911 on: March 24, 2018, 11:09:11 AM »
42:13 // we have a "full featured" game <-- :emot-lol:


42:30 + minutes

What a farce. He's talking about fitting progressive "modules" to the ships, even mentioned "powerplants" (in ED), like it's a pioneering development, something ED already has for years. Seems like he'll never stop touting new features and developments as "gamechangers" , ripped off ideas from whatever games have been released since SC's first KS, to feed the shillizens' denial malaise.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2018, 11:12:02 AM by krylite »

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - General
« Reply #1912 on: March 24, 2018, 12:11:25 PM »
42:30 + minutes

What a farce. He's talking about fitting progressive "modules" to the ships, even mentioned "powerplants" (in ED), like it's a pioneering development, something ED already has for years. Seems like he'll never stop touting new features and developments as "gamechangers" , ripped off ideas from whatever games have been released since SC's first KS, to feed the shillizens' denial malaise.

Yes, pretty much.
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

Aya Reiko

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Re: Star Citizen - General
« Reply #1913 on: March 25, 2018, 03:14:39 AM »
Guess the game:
  • it's an online multiplayer game
  • you can walk around in first person, but then pilot a ship
  • you can walk around the ship
  • you can multi crew ships with your friends
  • you can explore uncharted lands
  • you can visit outposts
  • you can do contracts and increase your reputation with mission givers
  • you can engage other players in gun fights or ship to ship combat
  • you can even board other player's ships and steal their cargo
  • you can customise your character's appearance and buy cosmetic items
  • you can pick up cargo boxes, then put them down anywhere you like on your ship

Sound like anything familiar?

ps. it's actually a full game out now
And getting torn to shreds by reviewers and the court of public opinion.  The biggest complaint; No content.

Still doesn't change a thing, though.

N0mad

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Re: Star Citizen - General
« Reply #1914 on: March 25, 2018, 04:43:02 AM »
And getting torn to shreds by reviewers and the court of public opinion.  The biggest complaint; No content.

Still doesn't change a thing, though.

I know, but my point still stands. CIG aren't doing anything original any more. Everyone else is doing those things better.

Sea of Thieves is an interesting case study for the genre. By "no content", what people really mean is not being able to unlock new skills / ship and weapons - because when you look at every other game, the grind is still there but you get something to aim for. That's why the grind is acceptable because the next unlock will always make your character better - at least that's what players think. If the developers had made a progression system then people would have plenty of content to try and unlock but Rare would be accused of being unfair on new players. Even if they had servers where people of similar skill level were matched then it would still be handing higher skill level players an advantage over others.

satoru

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Re: Star Citizen - General
« Reply #1915 on: March 25, 2018, 08:22:34 PM »
But a game like CSGO has no 'progression' in that sense. You don't get skills or bombs or anything in CSGO if you play. You just get skins and stuff.

So you can have the appearence of content or at least 'fun' without there being 'progression' with respect to your character, player, skills, etc

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - General
« Reply #1916 on: March 26, 2018, 04:30:46 AM »
Last night I was in chat with a good friend of my who works at EA, and I was reminded that back in 2016 I posted a tip that a source had said their internal no-bullshit-schedule for all things to be completed goes all the way to 2021. We're in 2018 and they're still not even 20% of the way there. And that's just the check boxes, and not accounting for the thousands of bugs that crop up with each build.

Then there was this.



Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - General
« Reply #1917 on: March 26, 2018, 06:01:13 AM »
LOL!! Missing from this narrative is the fact that if Reclaimers ever show up on the server, it will shit its pants and die.


Quote from: Sarsapariller" post="482513413
So that reclaimer ship is playable, for some people I guess. Walkthrough/verbal fellation video here. Kind of looks like they've hacked it into the arena commander map instead of loading it in the main game. Commentary below:
[video type="youtube"]WeyimocPIOs[/video]

@0:44- So about half of the ship is the landing gear. Deploying it immediately breaks the particle effects on the engines.

@1:27- Oh they've started adding "Auto-turrets" since it became apparent that nobody will ever crew turrets on their ships. I wonder if they've actually got the turrets working? My money is on no.

@4:00- Massive salvage arm! Doesn't work. But it's gonna be really cool! <Proceeds to imagine how cool it will be>

@5:00- Tractor beam operator seats! Don't work. <Proceeds to imagine how they will work>

@6:00- Scanning station! Remote Turrets! Don't do anything. <Talks about what these might be for>. An engineering station! Doesn't do anything. But look at all those particle effects in the grinder!

--I'm beginning to detect a theme here. --

@7:15- Escape pods, that don't work

@8:35- Drooling over detailed wires in the elevator shaft. I honestly do not understand how any of these sperglords can give a shit about the fidelitous loose wires when nothing on the ship works. He shows off the turret access ladder- "Unfortunately I can't go in it right now"

@9:30- Gravity generator, I guess this makes the goo.

@9:50- "This is the drone room. Now they don't have the drones in here yet..." OH YOU DON'T SAY. Look, an operator seat for a thing that isn't in the game! Thrilling.

Anyway this goes on for 30 minutes but I'm bored now. Fuck you, Star Citizen.

Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

jwh1701

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Re: Star Citizen - General
« Reply #1918 on: March 26, 2018, 08:13:15 AM »
Developers of this game do not understand how to create proper demos the CR way.

3:45 Listen about honest demo


dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - General
« Reply #1919 on: March 27, 2018, 05:42:42 AM »
LOL!! 3.1 successful

Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

 

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