Author Topic: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within  (Read 61082 times)

dsmart

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #180 on: August 26, 2017, 03:30:14 PM »
I think there now just is too much to tell the world in one posting. You'll risk drowning in words and getting so much text out there that many might dismiss it just by sheer length. Maybe you can split it into multiple segments? One that basically describes the current state and the foreseeable future and stuff, and a more technically one where you point out all the errors and the little details et cetera. Making it more readable, more to the point, might help others to start talking and seeing it in a different light too. It would be a shame if using those huge blunders by Chris could be swiped aside as "just another rambling madman with a personal grudge".

Yes - this is precisely why I haven't finished it. Heck, the layout I wrote up in Scrivener is three frigging pages long.

Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

Motto

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #181 on: August 26, 2017, 03:33:05 PM »
I'll leave the Posting Crown for you.... for now, at least  :smuggo:

dsmart

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #182 on: August 26, 2017, 03:33:13 PM »
As for the vid link, "The arms are different"? That's your vector? Check the background. The guy on the right turns invis (goes puuf) and in general the colors change. Those are obviously 2 different settings. If that's the orginal vid then imho they could have hired a script kiddy to do better.
And the visor should not make chars disappear or change colors because it was on before the mobi activation.
As for the arm model, come on... do you really think they created a special arm and then screw up the time (night day) and the 2nd person on screen ? Sure they have money but if they did that then a lighter would be an easier way to burn it.

I focus on that "vector" because I am talking about the arm model. Nothing else.

They just happened to have a different arm model. Just like most fps games have different weapon models. They probably haven't gotten around to matching the arm model textures to the actual player suit texture yet. It's sloppy, but it happens. Even in LoD we have different high-res arms and player weapon models for use in 1st person.

Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

dsmart

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #183 on: August 26, 2017, 03:59:45 PM »
I also wrote this over on SA

Quote
Quote from: Cao Ni Ma" post="475774295
a supposed dev at neogaf is trying to say that its the pilots fault that the rover blew up on the ramp because they decided to park on uneven terrain lmao

That's pure nonsense. It's to do with how they have cobbled together a vehicle controller while separating the chassis (which is probably a rigid body) handling from the wheels (which turn in the wrong direction btw) which are animated entities.

This is why, when you see the rover moving, the chassis only reacts on it's own and incorrectly, while the wheels turn (incorrect direction btw).

This is why when they go over bumps, both chassis + wheels go over because they are on terrain that standard vehicle controllers can move on just fine using the basic vehicle controller.

Even the Nox, which doesn't touch the ground, would have intersected that ramp slope if they had done this same action with it, while trying to land it on the slope. It would have moved ahead, intersecting the slope

The main issue is that handling ANY physics body on slopes, is very tricky. It's why, when a character walking forward, then tries to go UP a slope, if the math is off, you just walk INTO the slope, thus intersecting the terrain or object (in this case, the ramp on the ship). You will also see the character angled unnaturally when standing on a slope, if you get the math wrong. Done correctly, the body standing on a slope would be perpendicular to the slope itself

The rover was destroyed because apparently the model intersecting the ramp (attached to the ship model), triggered a collision response large enough to trigger its destruction as normal. It's the sort of bug that's in 2.6.3 at the moment.

Math is hard, but I have pictures.

How to fix common physics problems in your game

Handling movement on sloped surfaces - clamping character to sloped surface

Ground clamping a rigidbody on slope

These are the same clowns who can't get animated doors working. So. :colbert:

And Scruff-Puff later provide and image showing how it would look if done correctly.

Quote from: D_Smart" post="475778244
Quote from: Scruffpuff" post="475777933
Example of it done correctly:



Yup.

And in the case of the rover, it would drive right through the mountain, instead of driving up the slope like the horse.

The fact that it works for character models (as you can see when the other player ran up the ramp of the Idris) means that, like with the ship controller, they are still having issues with the vehicle controller.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2017, 04:20:51 PM by dsmart »
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

Kribbel

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #184 on: August 26, 2017, 04:14:16 PM »
Very Special Secret Space Agent codename CR:


Eagle to Idris, Game crahed! Abort loading screen!

https://makeagif.com/i/9FLpOB
http://imgur.com/DR25pka

edit: img doesnt work. any clue how to link a gif?
edit: board is fine just my brain is no good. Thx for the help Derek.
Taken from the Live stream at about 1h1min ish



« Last Edit: August 26, 2017, 04:28:24 PM by Kribbel »

dsmart

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #185 on: August 26, 2017, 04:21:49 PM »
Very Special Secret Space Agent codename CR:
https://makeagif.com/i/9FLpOB
http://imgur.com/DR25pka

edit: img doesnt work. any clue how to link a gif?

Standard image tags should work. You just have to always provide the file extension e.g. jpg, png, gif etc

Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

Kribbel

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #186 on: August 26, 2017, 04:23:59 PM »
Very Special Secret Space Agent codename CR:
https://makeagif.com/i/9FLpOB
http://imgur.com/DR25pka

edit: img doesnt work. any clue how to link a gif?

Standard image tags should work. You just have to always provide the file extension e.g. jpg, png, gif etc
tanks! worked
edit: not everyday that the boss does support. inet high five!
« Last Edit: August 26, 2017, 04:39:34 PM by Kribbel »

N0mad

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #187 on: August 26, 2017, 10:46:13 PM »
If you noticed here at the 1:29:07 mark when the Mobiglass appears, the arms are different. Someone on Discord thought it was a suit change. It's not a suit change. I believe that second arm is the model that has the mobiglass attached, and it doesn't match the actual player model suit. It's like a weapon switch. This means that the arm with the mobiglass is separate from the player model. Just like how we do high (1st person view) vs low (3rd person view) weapons in fps games.

It's a very confusing clip, but my take is that there's the Guy with the blue suit and the grey screen filter, and the girl with the grey suit with no screen filter. When the guy steps outside the rover to activate his Mobiglass it immediately cuts to the girl who is already using her own MobiGlass. The suit arms do match.

Clearly there are still plenty of problems:
  • He clearly doesn't line up the railgun on the ship he destroys
  • His second railgun shot was to the top of the rover door (with no damage)
  • Shockingly bad ship in atmosphere flight mechanics
etc

dsmart

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #188 on: August 27, 2017, 05:38:56 AM »
The suit arms do match.

They don't appear to match to me. Compare 1:29:09 to 1:29:10 and look carefully at the arms.

1:29:09



1:29:10


Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

dsmart

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #189 on: August 27, 2017, 05:42:23 AM »
To show the nonsense with this project, this is facetracking being discussed for implementation. Back in 2013!


So this is yet another promo deal to raise money for a doomed project. This time from FacewareTech like they did with Madcatz. Like they did with CryTek, Illfonic, Behavior Interactive and several others, here is Chris taking a shot at Madcatz during the show after announcing FacewareTech
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

N0mad

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #190 on: August 27, 2017, 05:50:10 AM »
They don't appear to match to me. Compare 1:29:09 to 1:29:10 and look carefully at the arms.

I know what you mean, and I thought the same the first time I saw it, but what actually happens is that as soon as the guy (blue armour, first pic) raises his arm it cuts to the girl who already has her mobiglass on. You can see her a few paces ahead in the first shot. That's why the perspective, screen colour and suit are different in the second shot.

dsmart

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #191 on: August 27, 2017, 05:52:57 AM »
They don't appear to match to me. Compare 1:29:09 to 1:29:10 and look carefully at the arms.

I know what you mean, and I thought the same the first time I saw it, but what actually happens is that as soon as the guy (blue armour, first pic) raises his arm it cuts to the girl who already has her mobiglass on. You can see her a few paces ahead in the first shot. That's why the perspective, screen colour and suit are different in the second shot.

I am going to watch it again closely. If you are right, that would explain the different suits as well.

Anyway, they are using Scaleform (we use Iggy in LoD) for their UI and can create UI interfaces like that. If they're not using separate high vs low arm models, like the weapons, that means they are using the high res models in both 1st and 3rd person perspective; which also explains the performance issues.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2017, 05:55:37 AM by dsmart »
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

dsmart

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #192 on: August 27, 2017, 09:29:51 AM »
I wrote this over at SA

Quote
Quote
Beer4TheBeerGod posted:
You start off with some stuff. Supposedly. In reality the players would take a shitty little Aurora, fly directly to the crash site, grab the box while shooting some NPCs scavengers or animals or whatever, and GTFO the second something with any kind of firepower showed up. Or a group gets a bunch of players to get the same mission, and they all run in and grab their individual boxes while the rest hang outside and murder whatever scripted opponent shows up the millisecond it spawns.

"Reality" in this case actually meaning never because that requires CIG to develop shit that isn't O-Face Over IP or whatever bullshit Chris Roberts gets a hard on for next time.
I can tell you with 100% certainty that it won't work. Like ever.

Especially since it's a multiplayer environment.

This is why multiplayer "quests" are usually designed for solo and grouping play in order to ensure that they don't break.

This "quest mission" was just a showcase. Nothing else. And I have no reason to believe that it will ever appear in the game as depicted. Let me illustrate what they're going to be faced with.

- You need a rail gun to take down that ship. Without it, script breaks, mission fails
- You need a vehicle (Nox, Rover etc) to get to the crash site. Without it, script breaks, mission fails
- You need an aircraft to take on the opposition (NPC | players). Without it, script breaks, mission fails

Fuck it, I had n-1 computations, and just decided to fucking stop typing because it's pointless to even bother illustrating all the ways it will break and simply won't work

This is not those "take on pirates" or "flip a switch" missions in the PU which are purely for solo play.

If this mission was even for SQ42, that implies NPC will be doing those roles, the player will be directed to meet Miles, get a rail gun, find a vehicle, go get the box etc. And the Idris will be AI controlled as well.

 :lol: If any of this shit is ever getting done, when they can't even get NPC pathfinding to work right.

Notice how, for 3.0, they didn't even bother playing ANY mission which would be designed for and released in that build.

Quote from: happyhippy" post="475797145
n+ 1 = Other players fucking with your mission.

Going to land me a ship on their Rover, or get inbetween their guass missile shot to trigger the AI security to fuck them up.

Yup, pretty much. I had all of those running through my brain. As I mention on Discord during the stream, I've written game scripts for over 30 years, and I know precisely how they break, what can/cannot break them etc.

Heck, right now, if you have Universal Combat CE 3.0  on Steam, you can download the free scripting tools (which includes sources for ALL the game scripts) I released a few months back, and script everything you saw in the Star Citizen GC2017 presentation. Without the fps inside station "fidelity" bullshit of course.

Here's what you can script with UCCE 3.0. I was actually going to do this, then play it on a live stream. But I decided that it may be regarded as poor taste, me promoting my games etc.

[scenario]

01) Start game with 3 NPC companions (marines, commanders, crew etc) at a planetary base on Earth

02) Rendezvous with a scripted NPC mission giver (e.g. Karl Reines) at the base

03) Being within range of NPC, triggers the dialogue and gives the mission, description etc

04) Go outside to a supply platform and get a rocket launcher

05) Still outside, get a ground vehicle, either a scripted one specific to the mission, or any of those already at the base. Your NPC companions who follow you everywhere WILL enter the vehicle with you - no prompting (though they do receive AI orders from player) required

06) Drive to location of mission and retrieve a scripted cargo box

07) When you reach a certain location, hostile aircraft (gunships or fighters) will engage the vehicle

08) Exit vehicle (as will your NPC companions)

09) Collect box using vehicle. Yes, that's actually a thing and there is UI for it. Box is transferred to to cargo of vehicle

10) A scripted capital ship (carrier, cruiser, or transport) is triggered to appear and land (yes, it's an actual script command)

11) Drive to the capital ship while evading airborne hostile AI ships. As the driver in a single player game, you will have to stop, exit vehicle, engage with rocket launcher if you want to avoid getting killed en-route. NPC team will also do the same!

12) Reach capital ship, enter (this will also give you command if you want) - as will NPC team.

13) Fly capital ship, fly to altitude, reach Escape Velocity, enter space. Plot jump course to delivery location at a planetary base on Mars

14) Emerging from hyperspace jump within Mars orbit, activates scripted hostile ships

15) Defeat hostile cap ships

16) Either A) fly cap ship to the Mars base, land and delivery cargo or B) use the cap ship's transporter to beam you, your team, and cargo to the location below

When the script detects the cargo pod within proximity of the destination location - scenario ends. You WIN.

Without having to download the full GBS package above, here are the docs and command reference to give an idea of how ALL of the above can be scripted. Here is what a sample complex mission looks like. This guy even did a TC using the scripting tools.

And - right now - there are various scripts in both UCCE 2.0 and 3.0, as well as AAW, which use and show ALL of the above.

Also, you can do pretty much everything you see in the demo in LoD; complete with fps inside a station (space or planet), vehicles on a planet etc. Except that LoD is pure PvP and has no scripting components, due to it using a completely different (a far less advanced) engine from my BC/UC games. Also, there is no cap ship combat like in BC/UC.

And if you want to see highly advanced NPC fps AI, then go play All Aspect Warfare, which is purely fps, vehicle, and aircraft action. And that engine was built off the core BC/UC engines.

And UCCE is from 2004. While UCCE 2.0 is from 2009. And hopefully UCCE 3.0 will be completed by end of 2018, as 95% of the work is in redoing over 1000+ assets used in the game.

And a six year project which has raised over $157M, worked on by over 500 people (past and present), can't complete a simple quest script, let alone build a custom engine that fucking works. :argh:

There is nothing innovative or unique about Star Citizen. Those Shitizens are fucking dreaming themselves into a nightmare where there's a hole in their wallets.

This Star Citizen bullshit, is why I decided to even do this UCCE 3.0, which is getting a major graphics overhaul, without changing anything else about the robust underlying engine tech.

ps: There are some videos on our YT channel
« Last Edit: August 27, 2017, 09:41:27 AM by dsmart »
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

Motto

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #193 on: August 27, 2017, 01:19:58 PM »
Clearly, you are mistaken. How else would you explain almost 1 million revenue on a bogus funding tracker with the selling of pictures in just 2 days?

StanTheMan

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #194 on: August 27, 2017, 03:37:46 PM »
I wrote this over at SA

Quote
Quote
Beer4TheBeerGod posted:
You start off with some stuff. Supposedly. In reality the players would take a shitty little Aurora, fly directly to the crash site, grab the box while shooting some NPCs scavengers or animals or whatever, and GTFO the second something with any kind of firepower showed up. Or a group gets a bunch of players to get the same mission, and they all run in and grab their individual boxes while the rest hang outside and murder whatever scripted opponent shows up the millisecond it spawns.

"Reality" in this case actually meaning never because that requires CIG to develop shit that isn't O-Face Over IP or whatever bullshit Chris Roberts gets a hard on for next time.
I can tell you with 100% certainty that it won't work. Like ever.

Especially since it's a multiplayer environment.

This is why multiplayer "quests" are usually designed for solo and grouping play in order to ensure that they don't break.

This "quest mission" was just a showcase. Nothing else. And I have no reason to believe that it will ever appear in the game as depicted. Let me illustrate what they're going to be faced with.

- You need a rail gun to take down that ship. Without it, script breaks, mission fails
- You need a vehicle (Nox, Rover etc) to get to the crash site. Without it, script breaks, mission fails
- You need an aircraft to take on the opposition (NPC | players). Without it, script breaks, mission fails

Fuck it, I had n-1 computations, and just decided to fucking stop typing because it's pointless to even bother illustrating all the ways it will break and simply won't work

This is not those "take on pirates" or "flip a switch" missions in the PU which are purely for solo play.

If this mission was even for SQ42, that implies NPC will be doing those roles, the player will be directed to meet Miles, get a rail gun, find a vehicle, go get the box etc. And the Idris will be AI controlled as well.

 :lol: If any of this shit is ever getting done, when they can't even get NPC pathfinding to work right.

Notice how, for 3.0, they didn't even bother playing ANY mission which would be designed for and released in that build.

Quote from: happyhippy" post="475797145
n+ 1 = Other players fucking with your mission.

Going to land me a ship on their Rover, or get inbetween their guass missile shot to trigger the AI security to fuck them up.

Yup, pretty much. I had all of those running through my brain. As I mention on Discord during the stream, I've written game scripts for over 30 years, and I know precisely how they break, what can/cannot break them etc.

Heck, right now, if you have Universal Combat CE 3.0  on Steam, you can download the free scripting tools (which includes sources for ALL the game scripts) I released a few months back, and script everything you saw in the Star Citizen GC2017 presentation. Without the fps inside station "fidelity" bullshit of course.

Here's what you can script with UCCE 3.0. I was actually going to do this, then play it on a live stream. But I decided that it may be regarded as poor taste, me promoting my games etc.

[scenario]

01) Start game with 3 NPC companions (marines, commanders, crew etc) at a planetary base on Earth

02) Rendezvous with a scripted NPC mission giver (e.g. Karl Reines) at the base

03) Being within range of NPC, triggers the dialogue and gives the mission, description etc

04) Go outside to a supply platform and get a rocket launcher

05) Still outside, get a ground vehicle, either a scripted one specific to the mission, or any of those already at the base. Your NPC companions who follow you everywhere WILL enter the vehicle with you - no prompting (though they do receive AI orders from player) required

06) Drive to location of mission and retrieve a scripted cargo box

07) When you reach a certain location, hostile aircraft (gunships or fighters) will engage the vehicle

08) Exit vehicle (as will your NPC companions)

09) Collect box using vehicle. Yes, that's actually a thing and there is UI for it. Box is transferred to to cargo of vehicle

10) A scripted capital ship (carrier, cruiser, or transport) is triggered to appear and land (yes, it's an actual script command)

11) Drive to the capital ship while evading airborne hostile AI ships. As the driver in a single player game, you will have to stop, exit vehicle, engage with rocket launcher if you want to avoid getting killed en-route. NPC team will also do the same!

12) Reach capital ship, enter (this will also give you command if you want) - as will NPC team.

13) Fly capital ship, fly to altitude, reach Escape Velocity, enter space. Plot jump course to delivery location at a planetary base on Mars

14) Emerging from hyperspace jump within Mars orbit, activates scripted hostile ships

15) Defeat hostile cap ships

16) Either A) fly cap ship to the Mars base, land and delivery cargo or B) use the cap ship's transporter to beam you, your team, and cargo to the location below

When the script detects the cargo pod within proximity of the destination location - scenario ends. You WIN.

Without having to download the full GBS package above, here are the docs and command reference to give an idea of how ALL of the above can be scripted. Here is what a sample complex mission looks like. This guy even did a TC using the scripting tools.

And - right now - there are various scripts in both UCCE 2.0 and 3.0, as well as AAW, which use and show ALL of the above.

Also, you can do pretty much everything you see in the demo in LoD; complete with fps inside a station (space or planet), vehicles on a planet etc. Except that LoD is pure PvP and has no scripting components, due to it using a completely different (a far less advanced) engine from my BC/UC games. Also, there is no cap ship combat like in BC/UC.

And if you want to see highly advanced NPC fps AI, then go play All Aspect Warfare, which is purely fps, vehicle, and aircraft action. And that engine was built off the core BC/UC engines.

And UCCE is from 2004. While UCCE 2.0 is from 2009. And hopefully UCCE 3.0 will be completed by end of 2018, as 95% of the work is in redoing over 1000+ assets used in the game.

And a six year project which has raised over $157M, worked on by over 500 people (past and present), can't complete a simple quest script, let alone build a custom engine that fucking works. :argh:

There is nothing innovative or unique about Star Citizen. Those Shitizens are fucking dreaming themselves into a nightmare where there's a hole in their wallets.

This Star Citizen bullshit, is why I decided to even do this UCCE 3.0, which is getting a major graphics overhaul, without changing anything else about the robust underlying engine tech.

ps: There are some videos on our YT channel

What are the 400 staff actually doing ?


 

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