Author Topic: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.  (Read 1719636 times)

Narrenbart

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Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #150 on: December 09, 2016, 10:38:58 PM »
so thats it for the year from CIG will be on leave till 12th of january :airquote:(so much for 3.0) :airquote:. :lesnick: :sandance:

So when do you guys think 3.0 update will come i would say end march..what ya say guys??
Japp end of march 2018 seems reasonable - and they will smoke and mirror through 2017

Narrenbart

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Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #151 on: December 09, 2016, 10:42:02 PM »
I just can not wait to see planetwide physic errors - remember they went full rigidbody on a sphere ... a rotating sphere ... with assets in the sky that have more verts than a complete TESO town ... a little lag and everything goes bad, bad in a way that CIG ... again ... will set new levels of bad

Darklegend1

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Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #152 on: December 09, 2016, 10:52:42 PM »
I just can not wait to see planetwide physic errors - remember they went full rigidbody on a sphere ... a rotating sphere ... with assets in the sky that have more verts than a complete TESO town ... a little lag and everything goes bad, bad in a way that CIG ... again ... will set new levels of bad
lol yeah it will be fun to see all that shit..have u seen their new graph where they depict bugs created and bugs smashed. lol see it on their production schedule page.
the problem is every day that passes is creating more and more pressure as they are already late over promises made for 3.0 so they will launch something in 2-3 months or CIg can go  :rip:.

Kyrt

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Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #153 on: December 10, 2016, 06:10:22 AM »
It's all been lies. I have been saying that for months. 2017 is when the wheels finally come off I think.

You probably have information I do not.

Without that, my own thoughts are that both SC and SQ42 are far behind where CIG wanted them to be at this stage, that they've spent more money than they'd planned and have a number of issues they still need to resolve.

The game isn't going to take 5 years to create. 8 is IMO more likely. And they are going to need more money for marketing....I don't think whatever cost multipliers Chris Roberts talked about that make every dollar invested equivalent to four or five under a traditional model really works.

SQ42 OTOH almost HAS to launch in 2017. At least, part1. CIG need to show off something concrete, they need a new revenue stream to counter potential refunds and at 4 sites, 400 devs they could easily be burning through $20-$30million a year.

Now....if that is true, they should easily have enough money at hand to develop and finish the games. But server farms and marketing will be expensive to set up and maintain. And its questionable whether they'd get many sales after launch as they've already been selling the game for five years. So it is possible that much of whatever buffer they have is already accounted for.

But do I think the wheels are coming off? It's possible things are worse than I think....

But CIG raised a lot of money this year, well over $30 million. It is hard to believe that they don't have a financial buffer. So it seems likely they will remain solvent for the mext couple of years. Which SHOULD be long enough to see SQ42 Episode 1 released and bring in new revenue as well.

So....I can accept that CIG is having issues with SC and SQ42. Some of what they have been doing, saying and releasing does strike me as being problematic and has more than a hint of PR and spin. I am concerned that CIG don't even appear to have settled on a basic flight model....what I would consider a fundamental requirement for this sort of game...and that we haven't seen much of sQ42 at all.

But...leaving aside Roberts' problems with meeting his self imposed deadlines...deadlines which appear to have little bearing with reality...he has promised nothing that cannot be delivered. Other games have delivered what he wants so he too can deliver.

All he needs is time and money. Well...in reality, money.

However....he appears to have at least 3 years of development on SC remaining. Maybe less if he goes for a MVP release. There doesn't seem to be any indication of a marketing campaign beyond the recruitment effort for investors and backers. Which is getting them to pay hundreds of dollars up front for a $50 game preorder when that game hasn't been reviewed, previewed or demoed. And if he wants a server farm capable of providing 200 player instances...that will require a fair bit of cash as well.

So he has plenty of demands for cash. If CIG still has $50 million of a buffer...and stops selling ships....they'll have enough cash for a bit less than two years development, even without savings elsewhere.

That'll be enough to tide them over until something is released.

Of course, there's always the possibility that some other event will happen but in all honesty, CIG appear to be developing the game and appear intent on releasing it. If they stopped handing out wildly optimistic release info it'd be better. Other than that, their funding model isn't one which rewards a quick release.

somedude

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Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #154 on: December 10, 2016, 06:28:07 AM »
It's all been lies. I have been saying that for months. 2017 is when the wheels finally come off I think.

You probably have information I do not.

Without that, my own thoughts are that both SC and SQ42 are far behind where CIG wanted them to be at this stage, that they've spent more money than they'd planned and have a number of issues they still need to resolve.

The game isn't going to take 5 years to create. 8 is IMO more likely. And they are going to need more money for marketing....I don't think whatever cost multipliers Chris Roberts talked about that make every dollar invested equivalent to four or five under a traditional model really works.

SQ42 OTOH almost HAS to launch in 2017. At least, part1. CIG need to show off something concrete, they need a new revenue stream to counter potential refunds and at 4 sites, 400 devs they could easily be burning through $20-$30million a year.

Now....if that is true, they should easily have enough money at hand to develop and finish the games. But server farms and marketing will be expensive to set up and maintain. And its questionable whether they'd get many sales after launch as they've already been selling the game for five years. So it is possible that much of whatever buffer they have is already accounted for.

But do I think the wheels are coming off? It's possible things are worse than I think....

But CIG raised a lot of money this year, well over $30 million. It is hard to believe that they don't have a financial buffer. So it seems likely they will remain solvent for the mext couple of years. Which SHOULD be long enough to see SQ42 Episode 1 released and bring in new revenue as well.

So....I can accept that CIG is having issues with SC and SQ42. Some of what they have been doing, saying and releasing does strike me as being problematic and has more than a hint of PR and spin. I am concerned that CIG don't even appear to have settled on a basic flight model....what I would consider a fundamental requirement for this sort of game...and that we haven't seen much of sQ42 at all.

But...leaving aside Roberts' problems with meeting his self imposed deadlines...deadlines which appear to have little bearing with reality...he has promised nothing that cannot be delivered. Other games have delivered what he wants so he too can deliver.

All he needs is time and money. Well...in reality, money.

However....he appears to have at least 3 years of development on SC remaining. Maybe less if he goes for a MVP release. There doesn't seem to be any indication of a marketing campaign beyond the recruitment effort for investors and backers. Which is getting them to pay hundreds of dollars up front for a $50 game preorder when that game hasn't been reviewed, previewed or demoed. And if he wants a server farm capable of providing 200 player instances...that will require a fair bit of cash as well.

So he has plenty of demands for cash. If CIG still has $50 million of a buffer...and stops selling ships....they'll have enough cash for a bit less than two years development, even without savings elsewhere.

That'll be enough to tide them over until something is released.

Of course, there's always the possibility that some other event will happen but in all honesty, CIG appear to be developing the game and appear intent on releasing it. If they stopped handing out wildly optimistic release info it'd be better. Other than that, their funding model isn't one which rewards a quick release.

There's a couple of things u need to keep in mind:
- Their pledge counter is run by them. By no means is it proven that it shows reality. For all we know they made 1 million in stead of 30 this year. They cannot afford to let that counter drop dead or everyone would see financial doom.

- They do not need money for marketing, as their marketing consists of letting a bunch of ppl make vids wich isn't exactly costly and is funded by subscribers.

- 8 years? do u really believe that? To do everything Chris has promised they'd need 30 years at their current develoment speed (or lack theroff).

- Yes, SQ42 HAS to launch in 2017 or this project is officially dead. U know the funny part about that? Right after SQ42 launches the project will be dead anyways. They have such a barebones part 1 planned that it will leave a foul taste in 90% of the backers. It will be boring, repetitive and buggy (borderline unplayable). Mark my words.

- They have no financial reserves that we know off (barring funding from non-backer sources). they already depleted those and are running at fumes atm. Ask any person with financial occupation/education. (and yes, i am an accountant)

- CR needs a kick in the ass and a reality check. CR is the biggest liability to this project along with his dollar sign obsessed wife. His perfectionism is what is killing this project. The only way i see star citizen become a reality is a rerun of the freelancer story.

tldr: This ship is sinking fast atm and the only thing that can save it is Chris knocking his head on something hard and actually start producing a game as it should or he getting canned or selling SC. Backer trust is at an all-time low and that will never recover as they have nothing to release and gain back trust. (even when sq42 part releases that will not be enough as most will see that its a quick, crappy, boring game they released to gain more funds)

Kyrt

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Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #155 on: December 10, 2016, 07:20:32 AM »
There's a couple of things u need to keep in mind:
- Their pledge counter is run by them. By no means is it proven that it shows reality. For all we know they made 1 million in stead of 30 this year. They cannot afford to let that counter drop dead or everyone would see financial doom.

- They do not need money for marketing, as their marketing consists of letting a bunch of ppl make vids wich isn't exactly costly and is funded by subscribers.

- 8 years? do u really believe that? To do everything Chris has promised they'd need 30 years at their current develoment speed (or lack theroff).

- Yes, SQ42 HAS to launch in 2017 or this project is officially dead. U know the funny part about that? Right after SQ42 launches the project will be dead anyways. They have such a barebones part 1 planned that it will leave a foul taste in 90% of the backers. It will be boring, repetitive and buggy (borderline unplayable). Mark my words.

- They have no financial reserves that we know off (barring funding from non-backer sources). they already depleted those and are running at fumes atm. Ask any person with financial occupation/education. (and yes, i am an accountant)

- CR needs a kick in the ass and a reality check. CR is the biggest liability to this project along with his dollar sign obsessed wife. His perfectionism is what is killing this project. The only way i see star citizen become a reality is a rerun of the freelancer story.

tldr: This ship is sinking fast atm and the only thing that can save it is Chris knocking his head on something hard and actually start producing a game as it should or he getting canned or selling SC. Backer trust is at an all-time low and that will never recover as they have nothing to release and gain back trust. (even when sq42 part releases that will not be enough as most will see that its a quick, crappy, boring game they released to gain more funds)

If they are lying about their income then all bets are off.

Money is always needed for marketing. If they ate just relying on word of mouth and youtube vids, then they've already sold 80% or so of what they'll sell.

8 years..yes. Depending on what exactly they'll release, what features the game has. 8 years seems reasonable. Games like WOW and SWTOR and GTA5 and NMS and ED took about 5years. With smaller teams.

They released with fewer features but rely upon an expansion model to add new aspects. SC is trying to get everything into the game with one release, and needed to do a lot of work on basic foundation technologies such as the engine...hence, an 8 year development schedule.

3.0 was supposed to be out in 2016. Not gonna happen.
3.0 was to see three patches in 2016. Not likely to happen.
4.0 was supposed to be released end of 2017. That isn't likely either.

Currently....I'd expect 4.0 around Q2 2018. With a number of patches headed into 2019 to flesh out the ships, systems and content and to polish the mechanics introduced in 3.x. Beta testing around Q2 3019 with a release around 2020.

If they cut down on content...which they haven't promised....in favour of quick procedurally generated planets...they DID promise 100 systems on launch, they could cut back on that date as well, to get it out earlier.

But 8 years seems reasonable.

If SQ42 is as bad as you suggest, it won't be released. Better no product than a bad one.

Assuming their funding is correct, they have gained over $135 million over 4 years. The best guesstimates...which could be wrong...suggest they have spent $60-$80 million to date. So...unless they are lying about the money raised, or have some major unaccounted for expenses, they should have a substantial reserve.

And yes...it appears from the outside that Chris Roberts is more of a visionary rather than a manager. From what I understand, it is Erin Roberts who has taken over a lot of the management and things have become a lot more professional since then. Chris managed to make some poor decisions, and a lot of time and money has been wasted as a result, but there seems to be little danger of the wheels coming off in 2017. Not with the info available.

Yes...Derek Smart brings up many good points. But that doesn't make him right all the time. Austin didn't close and CIG hadn't filed for bankruptcy. SM was shown.

As I said before, I think Derek Smart brings up good points and I think CIG has been guilty of bad communication but the true situation is better than Derek Smart says while worse than CIG make out.






somedude

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Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #156 on: December 10, 2016, 07:50:14 AM »
There's a couple of things u need to keep in mind:
- Their pledge counter is run by them. By no means is it proven that it shows reality. For all we know they made 1 million in stead of 30 this year. They cannot afford to let that counter drop dead or everyone would see financial doom.

- They do not need money for marketing, as their marketing consists of letting a bunch of ppl make vids wich isn't exactly costly and is funded by subscribers.

- 8 years? do u really believe that? To do everything Chris has promised they'd need 30 years at their current develoment speed (or lack theroff).

- Yes, SQ42 HAS to launch in 2017 or this project is officially dead. U know the funny part about that? Right after SQ42 launches the project will be dead anyways. They have such a barebones part 1 planned that it will leave a foul taste in 90% of the backers. It will be boring, repetitive and buggy (borderline unplayable). Mark my words.

- They have no financial reserves that we know off (barring funding from non-backer sources). they already depleted those and are running at fumes atm. Ask any person with financial occupation/education. (and yes, i am an accountant)

- CR needs a kick in the ass and a reality check. CR is the biggest liability to this project along with his dollar sign obsessed wife. His perfectionism is what is killing this project. The only way i see star citizen become a reality is a rerun of the freelancer story.

tldr: This ship is sinking fast atm and the only thing that can save it is Chris knocking his head on something hard and actually start producing a game as it should or he getting canned or selling SC. Backer trust is at an all-time low and that will never recover as they have nothing to release and gain back trust. (even when sq42 part releases that will not be enough as most will see that its a quick, crappy, boring game they released to gain more funds)

If they are lying about their income then all bets are off.

Money is always needed for marketing. If they ate just relying on word of mouth and youtube vids, then they've already sold 80% or so of what they'll sell.

8 years..yes. Depending on what exactly they'll release, what features the game has. 8 years seems reasonable. Games like WOW and SWTOR and GTA5 and NMS and ED took about 5years. With smaller teams.

They released with fewer features but rely upon an expansion model to add new aspects. SC is trying to get everything into the game with one release, and needed to do a lot of work on basic foundation technologies such as the engine...hence, an 8 year development schedule.

3.0 was supposed to be out in 2016. Not gonna happen.
3.0 was to see three patches in 2016. Not likely to happen.
4.0 was supposed to be released end of 2017. That isn't likely either.

Currently....I'd expect 4.0 around Q2 2018. With a number of patches headed into 2019 to flesh out the ships, systems and content and to polish the mechanics introduced in 3.x. Beta testing around Q2 3019 with a release around 2020.

If they cut down on content...which they haven't promised....in favour of quick procedurally generated planets...they DID promise 100 systems on launch, they could cut back on that date as well, to get it out earlier.

But 8 years seems reasonable.

If SQ42 is as bad as you suggest, it won't be released. Better no product than a bad one.

Assuming their funding is correct, they have gained over $135 million over 4 years. The best guesstimates...which could be wrong...suggest they have spent $60-$80 million to date. So...unless they are lying about the money raised, or have some major unaccounted for expenses, they should have a substantial reserve.

And yes...it appears from the outside that Chris Roberts is more of a visionary rather than a manager. From what I understand, it is Erin Roberts who has taken over a lot of the management and things have become a lot more professional since then. Chris managed to make some poor decisions, and a lot of time and money has been wasted as a result, but there seems to be little danger of the wheels coming off in 2017. Not with the info available.

Yes...Derek Smart brings up many good points. But that doesn't make him right all the time. Austin didn't close and CIG hadn't filed for bankruptcy. SM was shown.

As I said before, I think Derek Smart brings up good points and I think CIG has been guilty of bad communication but the true situation is better than Derek Smart says while worse than CIG make out.

If they release at 8 years in, with the speed they have today, they'll have about 40% of all promised features. So dont count on a full game at that point.

They already said (Chris did) that they'll release a minimale viable product: aka they've already cut most features.

Actually, the educated guesstimates are more around anything around 90-110 mil spend. Dont forget that we have the numbers from last year (UK office) wich show big wages for top brass (and Chris/sandi arent even in there) + the millions lost for actors.

I agree that things have gotten a bit better in the last year, but not yet to the point of actually being efficiënt. Erin does a good job but Chris needs to step back completely.

Yes, Derek has a tendency for the dramatic, and i agree that things are somewhere in the midlle as u say.

Just look at the things we know with 100% certainty:
- They alienate old backers with their marketing campaign (lying, deceiving etc) = no more money from most of them.
- They have more artists and designers then actual coders = slow progres but quick jpeg generation.
- they've chosen a FPS engine and cant even release a FPS minigame in 4 years.
- they're late on their own dates by a margin of years... YEARS....
- they have fixed about 5% of the bugs since 2.0 was released.

What does this tell u? I'll tell u what it tells me:
- incompetent leadership (starting with graphics then gameplay is the most retarded way to make a game, yet it is what they have been doing since start)
- Either the marketing department (and chris aswell) is lying their asses off or they are dumber then a pigs ass. (i'm guessing the first option)
- Their coders/developers are either completely incompetent to make a game, or they are being called back every step they take by the incompetent boss (being chris) (i guess the latter).

I can understand the engine problems, they did not plan to make such a game around kickstarter, but the best choice would've been to ditch cryengine and simply make their own.
As was said before: remove the incompetent leadership and this game will have a chance.. untill then even a torpedo wont speed up the sinking of this ship.

Narrenbart

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Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #157 on: December 10, 2016, 09:27:54 AM »
SQ42 won't save them at all they sold it now for years, if it releases we will see how much people are willing to pay $45+ Bucks for an interactive movie (hint: not so many).
This implies that they are able to push it out completly and not in tiny bits like 5 small missions for the backers.

The other thing is that the whole project is doomed, words like 64Bit is stuff that they like use to blow fairy dust in the eyes of the backers (remember that there is NO full 64 Bit GPU in the world [AMD is running at 1/4 and nVidia 1/16 of their speed in 64Bit operations]) instead of doing intelligent and logic stuff to avoid the needs of 64Bit (like KSP) they rather fuck up their complete project.
The other thing is that Chicken Head thing ... I really don't want to start with this one.

On top of that is that their whole community is building up so much hype and dreams (fueled by CR and CIG) that they cannot even start to find the fun in the game, everytime they nail down a mechanic there will be an army of upset customers ready to lighten up their torches to burn down the RSI Forums > see Golf Swing mechanic - but yeah it's just a placeholder ...

so the best thing to do for CR is rake your Millions in CEO wages, hide into a box and hope that there is no Customer near that will steal the box and rape you if they find you inside ...

Kyrt

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Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #158 on: December 10, 2016, 12:59:17 PM »
If they release at 8 years in, with the speed they have today, they'll have about 40% of all promised features. So dont count on a full game at that point.

I would surmise most of the past few years have been dedicated towards improving the engine they have licensed. It seems very much evident that CryEngine was very much inadequate for the game that Chris Roberts has envisaged.

Work on that engine is still ongoing. But assuming the reports from CIG are correct, the engine is at least vastly improved. CIG are planning to add many of the core mechanics in the next patch...in 3.x.

Once they do that, there is mainly content to add. CIG likely wouldn't have a lot to show if they put in as much work on the engine and toolkit as seems to have occurred.

CIG have no doubt wasted a lot of money thanks to some very questionable decisions. They've wasted time and resources as a result of those same decisions. The game is behind schedule and a modified engine will no doubt cause more problems for CIG than a custom engine would have.

But while I think CIG are over optimistic about their timetable, 8 years is still reasonable. That should, barring unforeseen delays, give them enough time to integrate and develop the mechanics for the game, and craft the 100 systems and ships it promised.

What I wouldn't expect is for those systems to have anything more than a basic level of content.

But if the work on the engine is as complete as indicated, then another 3 years for for the rest of the game isn't an unreasonable timeframe.

Quote
They already said (Chris did) that they'll release a minimale viable product: aka they've already cut most features.

No. It just means that they are prepated to launch the game without all tne features promised. That could mean most features added.

Based on their stretch goals, that would include a number of ships, 100 systems, FPS modules and a basic Elite clone. 3.x will give them most of the mechanics needed, the FPS is being added and the space sim is largely in place.


Quote
Actually, the educated guesstimates are more around anything around 90-110 mil spend. Dont forget that we have the numbers from last year (UK office) wich show big wages for top brass (and Chris/sandi arent even in there) + the millions lost for actors.

Those figures aren't impossible, but $60-80 million seem fat more likely. Even with your guestimates, that still gives CIG a sizeable buffer alongside what is a robust cash flow. Even at your worst guess, that still gives CIG a $30million buffer and an average income of over $30million a year, with likely expenditures only anout $20-25 million.

Quote
Just look at the things we know with 100% certainty:
- They alienate old backers with their marketing campaign (lying, deceiving etc) = no more money from most of them.
- They have more artists and designers then actual coders = slow progres but quick jpeg generation.
- they've chosen a FPS engine and cant even release a FPS minigame in 4 years.
- they're late on their own dates by a margin of years... YEARS....
- they have fixed about 5% of the bugs since 2.0 was released.

Alienated backers doesn't necessarily mean no more backing.
There is always some bottleneck like this.
The FPS game we've seen has only been in development for a year or so. The previous incarnation by Ilfonic was scrapped.
Yes...they are late. Already mentioned.
And this is the Alpha. There are going to be bugs.

Quote
I can understand the engine problems, they did not plan to make such a game around kickstarter, but the best choice would've been to ditch cryengine and simply make their own.
As was said before: remove the incompetent leadership and this game will have a chance.. untill then even a torpedo wont speed up the sinking of this ship.

Yes...I've said before CIG should have scrapped CryEngine and made a dedicated engine. But while development is progressing much slower than hoped for, it is nonetheless progressing and there is no sign...no public sign anyway...that CIG are on the verge of collapse or that the "wheels are coming off"

somedude

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Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #159 on: December 10, 2016, 01:16:27 PM »
I think the signs are there for all those who want to see them:

- sales for fresh cash (strong indicator they're running out)
- Continued hyping with outright lies (again to raise more cash)
- comming back on their word multiple times (again, for cash)
- Disgruntled ex-employees in terms of treatment/boss/lack of vision/lack of progress due to perfectionism (yes every company has them, but there's Always truth behind what those ppl say)
- marketing tactics tha would leave EA with shame on their cheeks
- Lack of progress (tangible)
- inability to coordinate (yes i'm talking about ilfonic, wich was entirely a leadership problem)
- no financial disclosures (i'm talking about taxes here, wich are mandatory but they dont even do that in the US)

Plenty of sings to go around in my book.

Kyrt

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Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #160 on: December 10, 2016, 01:32:07 PM »
I see the signs and I think there is trouble and problems.

A sign CIG are going belly up? That the game won't be released?

Not with the we have now.

There "technical difficulties"...largely related to decisions such as the use of CryEngine, money and time have been wasted, development is slower than anticipated (but seems likely to speed up if work on the engine is as advanced as suggested) and of course, management and communication issues.

That there are problems, however, does not indicate CIG will collapse, the the development is a scam or that the game will never be released.

Narrenbart

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Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #161 on: December 10, 2016, 01:41:30 PM »
I would surmise most of the past few years have been dedicated towards improving the engine they have licensed. It seems very much evident that CryEngine was very much inadequate for the game that Chris Roberts has envisaged.
indeed Cry is an isle FPS engine - It seems that he got blinded by the onboard shader (which are only good for quick shiny demos).

Once they do that, there is mainly content to add. CIG likely wouldn't have a lot to show if they put in as much work on the engine and toolkit as seems to have occurred.
Groundhog Day anyone? They say this every year ... every fucking year ... 2017 will be the year for CIG > every pipeline is worked out, every studio set up, now they will shit out content and gameplay... 100 Systems ... lets say 5 planets per system and 40 POI (landing site, Shop, Mission etc) on every planet that makes it worthwile ... adds up to 20.000 Interesting spots to create ...

But while I think CIG are over optimistic about their timetable, 8 years is still reasonable. That should, barring unforeseen delays, give them enough time to integrate and develop the mechanics for the game, and craft the 100 systems and ships it promised.
Yes and as some individuals say Development has only started 2012 2013 2014 2015 (maybe 2016?) Prepare for a beta in 2023 and don't forget to finance this wreck.
Basically well there are games that took 5+ years but how many of them in the whole history of game development have been in pre-Alpha for more than 4 years?

But if the work on the engine is as complete as indicated, then another 3 years for for the rest of the game isn't an unreasonable timeframe.
Indeed, but with all the gameplay loops they want to  implement it's more than a 30 year project.

Quote
They already said (Chris did) that they'll release a minimale viable product: aka they've already cut most features.

No. It just means that they are prepated to launch the game without all tne features promised. That could mean most features added.
No MVP means MVP - like MVP in NMS or E:D - Most features added would be ermh ... MFA ...

Alienated backers doesn't necessarily mean no more backing.
Let me sell this other bridge to you

There is always some bottleneck like this.
When you are making a JPEG collection game that is.

The FPS game we've seen has only been in development for a year or so. The previous incarnation by Ilfonic was scrapped.
japp and the mode they are implementing has nothing to do with the MMO Part - it seems that they are firing up a standard Cry4 engine with a skinned "FPS in 2 days" Tutorial

And this is the Alpha. There are going to be bugs.
No it's a pre-Alpha > an Alpha has concepts of all game loops in it > Alpha means nailed down and testing how game loops interact on the way to Beta not R&D the wheel again.


In conclusion I wish this trainwreck goes very slow, we had so man times laughing at SC videos in our studio - on the other hand, fans have sometimes great ideas, well 1 out of 100 is realiseable but with a little downsizing there are some pearls to find.
On top of that as long as they are "developing" this abomination, the radical fans stay away from other projects

Post Scriptum: I am clearly not a native english speaker and spell checking is running amok.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2016, 01:43:24 PM by Narrenbart »

Kyrt

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Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #162 on: December 10, 2016, 02:50:03 PM »
indeed Cry is an isle FPS engine - It seems that he got blinded by the onboard shader (which are only good for quick shiny demos).

Whatever. I can take Derek Smarts word that CIG could have made their original game with it but it has struck me for a fair time that for a game like SC has grown into that CIG would have been better off scrapping the engine and devoting the time and resources they've spent modifying it into building a custom engine instead.

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Groundhog Day anyone? They say this every year ... every fucking year ... 2017 will be the year for CIG > every pipeline is worked out, every studio set up, now they will shit out content and gameplay... 100 Systems ... lets say 5 planets per system and 40 POI (landing site, Shop, Mission etc) on every planet that makes it worthwile ... adds up to 20.000 Interesting spots to create ...

I don't think 2017 will be THE year. Nor 2018. Late 2019 through 2020...is the earliest date I would expect SC.

As for 20,000 systems...if they get the planet creation tech running correctly, they can easily generate a large number of planets.  That's what procedural generation will do. What will eat up the time will be handcrafting all that content for each planet...and thats where we can expect "shortcuts".




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Yes and as some individuals say Development has only started 2012 2013 2014 2015 (maybe 2016?) Prepare for a beta in 2023 and don't forget to finance this wreck.
Basically well there are games that took 5+ years but how many of them in the whole history of game development have been in pre-Alpha for more than 4 years?

Quite a few...considering those games started with existing engines. CIG happear to have spent much of the past few years creating the tools the needed to create the game. Thats overlappped with the development of various assets such as ships, stations and so on...

Which, while striking me as an inefficient way of doings things (I can easily see at least some of this work needing to be redone once the game starts being built up) does mean that they aren't quite starting from scratch.

CIG have a lot of content to add, and a lot of testing of said content, a lot of ships and stations, a lot of gameplay mechanics...

But there isn't anything they can't solve given time.

A 2019 release date should give them that time. Especially if they do a cut and paste on common assets such as stations and cities.

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No MVP means MVP - like MVP in NMS or E:D - Most features added would be ermh ... MFA ...

It depends...is it MVP as in one that will work...or MVP based upon what they have promised? A MVP would be Arena Commander. But CIG have promised features...they can cut actual content eadily enough, or copy it

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Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #163 on: December 11, 2016, 05:18:13 AM »
There's a couple of things u need to keep in mind:
- Their pledge counter is run by them. By no means is it proven that it shows reality. For all we know they made 1 million in stead of 30 this year. They cannot afford to let that counter drop dead or everyone would see financial doom.

- They do not need money for marketing, as their marketing consists of letting a bunch of ppl make vids wich isn't exactly costly and is funded by subscribers.

- 8 years? do u really believe that? To do everything Chris has promised they'd need 30 years at their current develoment speed (or lack theroff).

- Yes, SQ42 HAS to launch in 2017 or this project is officially dead. U know the funny part about that? Right after SQ42 launches the project will be dead anyways. They have such a barebones part 1 planned that it will leave a foul taste in 90% of the backers. It will be boring, repetitive and buggy (borderline unplayable). Mark my words.

- They have no financial reserves that we know off (barring funding from non-backer sources). they already depleted those and are running at fumes atm. Ask any person with financial occupation/education. (and yes, i am an accountant)

- CR needs a kick in the ass and a reality check. CR is the biggest liability to this project along with his dollar sign obsessed wife. His perfectionism is what is killing this project. The only way i see star citizen become a reality is a rerun of the freelancer story.

tldr: This ship is sinking fast atm and the only thing that can save it is Chris knocking his head on something hard and actually start producing a game as it should or he getting canned or selling SC. Backer trust is at an all-time low and that will never recover as they have nothing to release and gain back trust. (even when sq42 part releases that will not be enough as most will see that its a quick, crappy, boring game they released to gain more funds)

Indeed. I wrote an entire blog about the fact that the funding chart is bogus (I have irrefutable evidence; but on the advice of counsel, we opted not to make it public at this time) and designed to show financial health and interest in the project. They have less money than they are leading the backers and public to believe. Hence all the recent funding raising shenanigans. The double-edged sword in all this is that it's going to combat back to bite them in the ass at some point, because the larger the amount they show the public they've raised - while not shipping the games promised - the worse it looks for them.

I seriously believe that they think they can limp long enough to ship something (we're hearing prelude) of SQ42, while "launching" Star Citizen MVP. I just don't see that happening.

This whole year, they have failed to produce anything tangible, let alone worthy of "progress". This is another reason (aside from the liability of having promised it) why, all of a sudden, stand-alone Star Marine was back on the menu, even after it was shit-canned, Chris saying people were already playing it etc. It's hilarious to me that Star Marine is their year long "achievement".

I remember when everyone thought that 3.0 was a thing, included procgen planets etc - even though I raised the alarm and said that it was bullshit, and just more lies. Here we are, at year end, and they can't even get 2.6 out.
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

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Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #164 on: December 11, 2016, 05:23:09 AM »
The most hilarious thing coming out of this farce in a long time.

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Cook: I haven't made a dinner in 10 years, please pay me money to make a dinner for you!

Customer: You are a famous chef so OK, how much money do you need?

Cook: just enough for 10 people, and it will be done in 20 minutes and be the Best Damn Meal Ever!

Customer: ok, that sounds great! here is enough money for 50 people just in case.

Cook: wow thanks...

*20 minutes goes by*

Customer: So where's the meal?

Cook: well, since you gave me money for 50 people, I decided to change the recipe and make a bigger meal, so I started over. It's going to take an hour now, but I need more money. It will be the Best Damn Meal Ever!

Customer: OK, still sounds great. Here is money for 100 people just in case.

Cook: Thanks it will be ready in an hour!

*hour goes by*

Customer: So where's the meal?

Cook: funny thing, we had a problem with cooking the recipe backbone, and had to start entirely over again. And we need more money, and it will take all rest of the day now. But it will still be the Best Damn Meal Ever!

Customer: I am getting pretty hungry, can I at least get an appetizer?

Cook: I don't want to spoil the meal, so I won't show you anything form the main course, but here are some broken crackers to munch on. Send us More money now please!

Customer: OK, here is money for another 20 people, will that be enough?

Cook: Oh we always had enough money to make the meal, just the more money we get, the more ingredients we can put in it!

Customer: OK, I will wait till the end of the day.

*end of the day*

Customer: So where's the meal?

Cook: *silence*

*the next day*

Customer: I am getting kind of tired eating broken crackers, where is the meal? You said it would be the BDME?

Cook: It's coming along great! But I don't want to show you anything or it might spoil it. And we need more money again, but now we won't be delivering all the ingredients, we can only put the Minimum Viable Ingredients into the meal.

Customer: I don't care, I am starving, just serve whatever you got please.

Cook: Ok I will give you a slice of the meal later today to snack on while we finish the meal.

Customer: for sure later today?

Cook: Yes! For sure later today! Also please send us more money for better ingredients, and cash only no credit!

*end of day*

Customer: So where is the slice of the meal?

Cook: *silence*

Customer1: This is Bullshit™

Customer2: The Cook never promised to give you a slice!

Customer1: Yes he did you idiot, he said it just 7 lines above this one!

Customer2: You can't rush a good meal! Stop acting like an entitled special snowflake-- oh look here comes the cook again, I bet he has our slice!
Cook: Hey, while you are waiting, here is a menu to browse through which shows all the ingredients we are working with, and estimated times for cooking. And please send us more money again, cash only no credit!

Customer1: well, that makes me feel better at least, here's money for another 20, thank you.

Customer2: I am sure we will get that slice, and the morrow tour, and 2.6 and 3.0 in the next 5 minutes because they probably were cooking them all at the same time!...

*Customer1 stabs Customer2 in the head with a salad fork*
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

 

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