Author Topic: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.  (Read 476330 times)

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #570 on: June 22, 2017, 09:15:07 AM »
**BREAKING*** two sources have now confirmed that 3.0 is such a technological nightmare, and performance hog, that nobody knows how they are going to end up releasing it within the current time frame; let alone for GamesCom.

Croberts working on his new justification speech (aka newsletter), in which he may have no choice but to admit that the switch to LY hasn't been as straightforward (gee, who knew!?) as they made it out to be - seven months ago.

It's amazing to me that since July 2015, I've been right about so many things, that those guys don't even bother recapping them anymore. This despite the fact that I document them religiously in my blogs and forum posts - for a reason.

All that aside, the primary claim that "they can't build the game as pitched" and which everyone was saying that I was wrong about, remains true.

Ignoring the $150m (they were at $85, and have since passed this) + proper engine (they switched to the more advanced LY) that I said they would need to pull it off.

Recently (well, before GamesCom 2016), I said that they simply didn't have the tech to do procedurally generated planets, that the pitched 3.0 was bullshit dipped in Ether. Less than 6 months later, 3.0 has been significantly scaled back. And has moons - in a level - instead of procedural planets (shown in an elaborate R&D video showcase posing as in-game).

I have no doubt that they will probably release something called 3.0, then continue to update it. They did the same thing with 2.0. Right up to 2.6.x

ps: There is another JPEG sale tomorrow June 23rd. So they're probably going to lie in tomorrow's 3.0 schedule update, then update it again the following week with the proper data.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 09:19:44 AM by dsmart »
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #571 on: June 22, 2017, 11:26:47 AM »
Ho Lee Crap! This level of horseshit should come with a warning label. I mean, these guys aren't even trying anymore.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DerekSmart/comments/6iukr7/dks_on_twitter_12_breaking_two_sources_have/dj99ruf/

Quote
Derek's in a lot of trouble then.
My viewpoint is along the lines of Kevin Dent - CR is lining his pockets here. By building a leveragable engine and toolset which he can use to stamp out endless games as well as license it off for huge amounts of money.
When Chris got the money he did from crowdsourcing, he stopped wanting to be Chris Roberts, to some extent. He didn't want a Wing Commander anymore. He wanted to be Id Software, Frostbite, CryEngine, Unreal. That's where he wanted to be. I think Star Citizen is his vehicle to enter the engine market.
Why would Roberts want to scam people out of 7 figures, the most he could reasonably run off with, when he could develop an empire worth 9?

....yeah, because somehow CIG are exempt from Amazon's LumberYard licensing agreement. Fucking moron.

https://aws.amazon.com/lumberyard/faq/

Q. Can I take Lumberyard and make my own game engine and distribute it?

No. While you may maintain an internal version of Lumberyard that you have modified, you may not distribute that modified version in source code form, or as a freestanding game engine to third parties. You also may not use Lumberyard to distribute your own game engine, to make improvements to another game engine, or otherwise compete with Lumberyard or Amazon GameLift.
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

Narrenbart

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Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #572 on: June 22, 2017, 12:02:25 PM »
Ho Lee Crap! This level of horseshit should come with a warning label. I mean, these guys aren't even trying anymore.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DerekSmart/comments/6iukr7/dks_on_twitter_12_breaking_two_sources_have/dj99ruf/

Quote
Derek's in a lot of trouble then.
My viewpoint is along the lines of Kevin Dent - CR is lining his pockets here. By building a leveragable engine and toolset which he can use to stamp out endless games as well as license it off for huge amounts of money.
When Chris got the money he did from crowdsourcing, he stopped wanting to be Chris Roberts, to some extent. He didn't want a Wing Commander anymore. He wanted to be Id Software, Frostbite, CryEngine, Unreal. That's where he wanted to be. I think Star Citizen is his vehicle to enter the engine market.
Why would Roberts want to scam people out of 7 figures, the most he could reasonably run off with, when he could develop an empire worth 9?

....yeah, because somehow CIG are exempt from Amazon's LumberYard licensing agreement. Fucking moron.

https://aws.amazon.com/lumberyard/faq/

Q. Can I take Lumberyard and make my own game engine and distribute it?

No. While you may maintain an internal version of Lumberyard that you have modified, you may not distribute that modified version in source code form, or as a freestanding game engine to third parties. You also may not use Lumberyard to distribute your own game engine, to make improvements to another game engine, or otherwise compete with Lumberyard or Amazon GameLift.
For the Glory of Chris Roberts and the incredible StarEngine, Amazon will just write the $50mil+ bucks they paid CryTech off and gift the Master License to the saviour of PC gaming, all future games will profit from this deal because LumberStarCryEngine3.8 is such an open and stable engine for everything.
With Tech like 64Bit coordinates, Grabby Hands, Subsumption, Item 2.0, multiple Elevato... Physic Grids, Procedural tech (birds included) and a network system that can pack thousands of MB into a single UDP Package.
With this tech you just have to dream your game and your subsumption NPCs will arrange it for you, you just have to set up the Shop ... it all will be ready to go! In the next Patch!

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #573 on: June 22, 2017, 12:57:08 PM »
LOL!! Ubisoft just gave Star Citizen's pupil-to-planet the middle finger

Beyond Good and Evil 2: E3 2017 First In-Engine Demo


middle finger time stamp:


LOL!!!

Quote
...before going into detail, we wanted to make sure the engine would handle this kind of thing ...that was one of the big feature we wanted to make sure before showing the game to the pubic and to everybody, we wanted to make sure the technology was working under this big ambitious game [that it] was feasible
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #574 on: June 22, 2017, 05:15:13 PM »
According to TheAgent, they have hired the guy who did the combined arms series on YT, as a junior cinematic designer at F42-UK.

UPDATE: it has been confirmed on Reddit.


Also...

Quote from: TheAgent
so in a part of that huge dump I got the other day and who even knows or cares if its real but

hello

  • continued funding through Amazon and other partners (??) is contingent on several major milestone releases in the next 18 months
  • full commercial release of Star Citizen in 2018
  • "It's a promise we can't keep. We all know it."
  • sq42 prelude was supposed to hit early this year and is now listed internally as N/A
  • "We are going to focus on making the best MMO experience possible and that means integrating all our hard work and ideas [from SQ42] into it."
  • first half of the year, travel expenses over $400,000
  • "They are using backer funds like airline miles."
  • strains between upper management and employees "at a boiling point"
  • "I think things were all smiles until [our investors] started asking where the money was going."
  • (rehash) almost all the old mocap data is severely unusable, 10s of thousands more man hours to get it into a working state
  • expect a large trailer for new content for SQ42 now called Star Citizen: Squadron 42 / Star Citizen: First Strike
  • NPCs and questgivers will include full SQ42 cast
  • "That's our NPE (new player experience), that's it. You come in, you play [what was called SQ42], you're in our universe already, it's an easy transition. Credits roll and you're at your ship and suddenly with all these other players and it opens up and you say, 'Wow.'"
  • Turbulent taking large percentage of backer funds
  • Turbulent contract renegotiated to now include SC 2017 releases as "MVP" or "EA commercial release" as some monies are tied to that

Quote
First thing we are told is, "Shut the fuck up about your job." Everything is treated like we're discussing troop locations. Make a tweet or share a picture? Gotta go through [one of the CS team members]. It's all very carefully coordinated.

Quote
It's madness. We're kicking down the foundations of everything that's been built over the last two years. Coming in and seeing what [outside contractor] did with the AI was amazing. I thought, "Did they have no oversight? No direction?" It was a jumbled mess. We're the janitors trying to clean it up by burning the house down. I don't know if it's going to work.

Quote
The new [Item 2.0] is a disaster [for the art and design teams]. We are rebuilding entire cockpits for ships that haven't been touched in years. Then someone new, it's always someone new, says, "Hey, this ship looks a bit dated, you think?" and we all immediately shut the fuck up because the next thing you know the entire ship is being redesigned, again. Or maybe for the fourth time. Meanwhile we still have to design all the new elements directly into the cockpit. How can you do that when the entire ship comes back and everything is in a different place?


« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 06:11:21 PM by dsmart »
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #575 on: June 22, 2017, 06:19:05 PM »
Meanwhile, over there...I am honestly done with giving a shit.

Quote
We all know it. Some of us don't want to admit it.
Star Citizen will be amazing.
But the amount of delays, and the amount of constant "PR" and "sales" happening is making me lose my appetite for Star Citizen.
I am getting tired of having jay-pegs of various things shoved in my face, with an implicit statement of "Buy this shiny thing with all the shiny exclusive things that come with it, and support our project!"
I am getting tired of the frequent, tone-deaf flubs by the PR team.
I am getting tired of waiting for the Banu Merchantman and the Carrack.
I am getting tired of waiting for something tangible to come of Squadron 42's development.
I am tired of Chris Roberts giving us estimated time frames and then missing them like how a fascist misses the broad side of a barn with his Luger.
I am tired of Star Citizen.
I would take a break, but I am a victim of the "sunken cost" fallacy, and therefore am far too invested in seeing this game become a success.
Honestly, I would be happy if CIG would just dial back their PR instead of maintaining their constant "hype" in a clearly monetized approach to maintain a revenue stream.
I'm just gonna say this:
CIG seems to be forgetting that their main means of "marketing" is their original and veteran backers, as well as their intermediate-term backers. With the moves they've done to start adding "forum badges" to pre-sale purchases, in addition to other exclusives (skins for the Eclipse, anyone?), and their failure to consider possibly retroactively updating prior original concept sale ships to have these kinds of perks tells me that they aren't thinking all that much.
Regardless. I'm just tired of all this hype and waiting. If I were in CR's shoes, I'd refocus the "PR" on Squadron 42. Start putting out trailers, show us the gameplay.
I'm tired of hearing about 3.0.
This has been your monthly rant from your neighborly tired as hell guy.
Edit: And no, deliberately making us wait for the better part of a year for decent content drops is not a sound strategy, what with Gamescom coming in August. We've had that routine for four years. Enough.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 06:22:51 PM by dsmart »
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

StanTheMan

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Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #576 on: June 23, 2017, 07:32:38 AM »
Meanwhile, over there...I am honestly done with giving a shit.

Quote
We all know it. Some of us don't want to admit it.
Star Citizen will be amazing.
But the amount of delays, and the amount of constant "PR" and "sales" happening is making me lose my appetite for Star Citizen.
I am getting tired of having jay-pegs of various things shoved in my face, with an implicit statement of "Buy this shiny thing with all the shiny exclusive things that come with it, and support our project!"
I am getting tired of the frequent, tone-deaf flubs by the PR team.
I am getting tired of waiting for the Banu Merchantman and the Carrack.
I am getting tired of waiting for something tangible to come of Squadron 42's development.
I am tired of Chris Roberts giving us estimated time frames and then missing them like how a fascist misses the broad side of a barn with his Luger.
I am tired of Star Citizen.
I would take a break, but I am a victim of the "sunken cost" fallacy, and therefore am far too invested in seeing this game become a success.
Honestly, I would be happy if CIG would just dial back their PR instead of maintaining their constant "hype" in a clearly monetized approach to maintain a revenue stream.
I'm just gonna say this:
CIG seems to be forgetting that their main means of "marketing" is their original and veteran backers, as well as their intermediate-term backers. With the moves they've done to start adding "forum badges" to pre-sale purchases, in addition to other exclusives (skins for the Eclipse, anyone?), and their failure to consider possibly retroactively updating prior original concept sale ships to have these kinds of perks tells me that they aren't thinking all that much.
Regardless. I'm just tired of all this hype and waiting. If I were in CR's shoes, I'd refocus the "PR" on Squadron 42. Start putting out trailers, show us the gameplay.
I'm tired of hearing about 3.0.
This has been your monthly rant from your neighborly tired as hell guy.
Edit: And no, deliberately making us wait for the better part of a year for decent content drops is not a sound strategy, what with Gamescom coming in August. We've had that routine for four years. Enough.

It is a serious point.

For many it seems like backing star Citizen has been a bit like masterbating over the picture of a sexy woman. 

There are only so many times you can keep coming back for more before you get bored and slightly disgusted.    If she were to materialise in your bedroom you might very well ask her to leave because you have moved on.   

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/lawofdiminishingmarginalreturn.asp

« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 07:35:49 AM by StanTheMan »

nightfire

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Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #577 on: June 23, 2017, 09:23:36 PM »
first half of the year, travel expenses over $400,000

$400K? Is this actual space travel?? I thought they were just making a game!  :vince:

StanTheMan

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Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #578 on: June 24, 2017, 03:50:44 AM »
first half of the year, travel expenses over $400,000

$400K? Is this actual space travel?? I thought they were just making a game!  :vince:

But couldn't you take that figure and extrapolate that their finances cant be that bad if they sent that amount ?

nightfire

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Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #579 on: June 24, 2017, 11:13:31 AM »
But couldn't you take that figure and extrapolate that their finances cant be that bad if they sent that amount ?
If they actually used this amount for business flights to Port Olisar, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

If they just burned it on transport to places on Terra which can also be reached with 21st century video conferencing tech, I'd question their competence and vision as a space-age company  :3:

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #580 on: June 24, 2017, 11:29:23 AM »
Well, they took out another loan. I just wrote an article about it.

The mental gymnastics in this thread is gloriously hilarious

CIG recently took out a loan from Coutts & Co in the UK

There's this one guy comparing Apple taking out a loan (because it's cheaper than bringing money into the US for them), to CIG taking out a loan - and securing all the company assets (which - according to the filing - don't include any liquid assets. Because CIG has none. Heck, even the future tax credits are part of the security for the loan.

Fucking morons.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08703814/charges
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08815227/charges

When I said the project now belongs to banks, it wasn't hyperbole. see p3 section 4.2.1 & 4.2.2 of the loan docs
« Last Edit: June 24, 2017, 11:45:25 AM by dsmart »
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

Narrenbart

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Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #581 on: June 24, 2017, 12:17:53 PM »
Well, they took out another loan. I just wrote an article about it.

The mental gymnastics in this thread is gloriously hilarious

CIG recently took out a loan from Coutts & Co in the UK

There's this one guy comparing Apple taking out a loan (because it's cheaper than bringing money into the US for them), to CIG taking out a loan - and securing all the company assets (which - according to the filing - don't include any liquid assets. Because CIG has none. Heck, even the future tax credits are part of the security for the loan.

Fucking morons.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08703814/charges
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08815227/charges

When I said the project now belongs to banks, it wasn't hyperbole. see p3 section 4.2.1 & 4.2.2 of the loan docs

Coutts? AFAIK Amazon is at Coutts, it is pretty uncommon to push the whole IP all-in ... this could be an indirect purchase of the SC IP.
If CIG and their rookie Devs is at dead end CR may want to get rid of the IP with a cheap excuse (not if he would care about their customers), it would be a good trick to play to take a loan with all his stuff that has been paid by the backers and put it into a loan for amazon to buy the IP, the digital work and customer base. CR could keep all his "earned" money without any consequences because it's not his business anymore. Amazon is free from all contracts that CIG made with their customers and gets everything SC for the penny on the Dollar, they just have to free the loan (for maybe 40-60mil but Amazon is ready to put a lot of money down the drain to push their games segment).

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #582 on: June 24, 2017, 12:50:24 PM »
No, this has nothing to do with Amazon.

As per the charge filing, they basically put up everything, including the farm and the kitchen sink, as collateral. By all accounts, this was a very desperate loan.

- p3, section 4.2, paragraph 1
- p4, section 4.2.1.1
- p5, section 5 (all of it)









The best part?

p16, section 24 (all of it)



The bank now owns the project, and gives CIG/RSI permission to continue to develop and sell the game. This is revoked if CIG/RSI goes 60 days without paying their loan.

This is basically what happened with Freelancer. Microsoft bought Digital Anvil. Chris failed. Microsoft kicked him out and took over the project.

NOTE: This is the same bank that was fined by UK authorities over money laundering in 2012. Fined by Asian authorities in 2016. And again in Feb 2017 by the Swiss authorities.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2017, 02:29:25 PM by dsmart »
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

Meowz

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Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #583 on: June 24, 2017, 07:51:22 PM »
dear god this project is so fucked...

simprosestudios

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Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #584 on: June 25, 2017, 07:43:34 AM »
Anyone remember the whole 38 Studios debacle? Isn't this the sort of thing they did towards the end as well?

As an indie dev for over 20 years, this whole mess just makes me shake my head. Given Robert's history, is any of this surprising?

 

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