Author Topic: Man, am I confused  (Read 17597 times)

darkpen

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Man, am I confused
« on: September 30, 2017, 12:22:44 AM »
I backed this waaaaay back at the beginning of the original Kickstarter thinking I was buying into a new Wing Commander game with maybe some online components (I was picturing Starlancer or something I guess).

Real life got ahold of me and I was out of the loop for a long time and didn't pay attention to anything (I filter a lot of stuff out of my inbox so I didn't even keep up with the KS updates, especially since they were incredibly marketing like during the campaign, which I understood at the time but figured I'd already contributed).

Now I have some free time again and figured "oh hey self, that new Wing Commander game must at least be in beta by now, would be fun to check out."

...

WTF is this shit show?! I never signed up for a MMO or some Crytek in space?! (No offense to those that did but I don't remember that from the original KS, unless it was some possible stretch goal)

Now it's I don't even remember how long later, I downloaded... something? I can't tell if it's a game or some shareware shit demo you used to find on crappy "1,000 games" CDs. Some kind of FPS with a hangar and... what? I don't get it.

So I instead of playing Wing Commander 201X, I spent some time reading up on this clusterfuck and yeah, ok, I got some entertainment out of it, so if I got took (which seems highly likely), I can live with it.

But just for my sanity, can someone tell me:

1) Was there ever a WC like game pitched or did I just wishful think that?

2) Is a single player WC like game still in the alleged works? I don't have time to fully catch up and I can't figure out WTF is going on with 2.6/3.0 builds of something that doesn't even have a ship to fly (or more than a few rooms to walk around in), some Space Marine crap, Star Citizen and Squadron 42 (I thought Squadron 42 was the unit you would be playing in in Star Citizen?), some face crap videos that I don't know why I'd want in any game I'm playing, etc.

2b/3) I guess I need some kind of short summary of WTF happened? I'm gathering that there was so much pledged that these morons decided to run with the money and pitch some impossible thing instead of making the game they promised first and then doing whatever the hell they want.

4) From what little I've actually managed to catch up on, when are we expecting to see this on American Greed?

Sorry for the partial rant, but I needed to vent some.


Spunky Munkee

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Re: Man, am I confused
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2017, 01:41:17 AM »
Yes there was a WC game originally pitched. What happened Chris ROberts and his swelled head. He kept getting contributions and kept increasing the scope, promising more and more. Just yesterday the Lead on Squadron 42, the game you want announced that he was quitting. All indications are that they had massive cost overruns, the netcode was crap causing massive issues, they missed delivery dates by years now ands in a last ditch effort to get the baby jesus (hail Mary full of grace, don't let all my backers quit and ask for refunds, the living has been good and I want my gravy train to keep going for years).

So there is a whole us vs them war between the cultist backers and those who have left the project. They really are warped.

I doubt that the Squadron 42 is a priority for Chris Roberts since they are bleeding backers after missing the 3.0 delivery this summer(over a year late, at least), cutting a huge amount of promised content and having a total shit show at the gamescom. Look up the  twitch feed from "haters" somewhere linked on this site. You will piss your pants it was so bad. Embarrassing really.



I would love to see Roberts go to prison for his waste and abuse of backers money but I am not entirely sure it fits the legal definition of fraud. He certainly knew he could not deliver early on but kept the smiles and sunshine routine to keep backers sending him money. It will be up to  some aggressive AG to decide.

Read up on this site.

If you are doubting the project then go to the SC reddit refunds subreddit and learn how to get a refund. Chris Roberts wants you to think that you cannot get one.

Dont believe the full press media that says Star Citizen is great and just around the corner. Its all paid for bullshit.

http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/5685/

Watch this to see the state of the game, the fidelity that Chris Roberts has brought us for 160 Million dollars...

Backer42

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Re: Man, am I confused
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2017, 04:41:09 AM »
I backed this waaaaay back at the beginning of the original Kickstarter thinking I was buying into a new Wing Commander game with maybe some online components (I was picturing Starlancer or something I guess).

Real life got ahold of me and I was out of the loop for a long time and didn't pay attention to anything (I filter a lot of stuff out of my inbox so I didn't even keep up with the KS updates, especially since they were incredibly marketing like during the campaign, which I understood at the time but figured I'd already contributed).

Now I have some free time again and figured "oh hey self, that new Wing Commander game must at least be in beta by now, would be fun to check out."

...

WTF is this shit show?! I never signed up for a MMO or some Crytek in space?! (No offense to those that did but I don't remember that from the original KS, unless it was some possible stretch goal)

Now it's I don't even remember how long later, I downloaded... something? I can't tell if it's a game or some shareware shit demo you used to find on crappy "1,000 games" CDs. Some kind of FPS with a hangar and... what? I don't get it.
In short and simple words: That Kickstarter you backed failed delivery (due date was 2014). Don't bother with whatever the cult tries to sell you.

Visit https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen_refunds/ and get your money back. As Kickstarter backer you are in a very good position.

Spunky Munkee

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Re: Man, am I confused
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2017, 05:44:26 AM »
The most common line is "the game has greatly changed and expanded so the schedule cannot be expected to be held to". Yeah in short get a refund. I did 5 months ago. You can too. Do it now though because they supposedly (I have heard this dozens of times over the years) they will release the 3.0 patch. It is suspected that two things will happen with this patch.
1. Backers will see it for what it is, a crappy patch, the game won't  make it, they will rush to get refunds.
2. Chris Roberts will claim that this patch fulfills the requirement of delivering a "minimally viable product" and curtail refunds on the basis that he has met the minimal requirement of a game delivery under his modified TOS.

You see Chris Roberts has unilaterally changed the Terms Of Service twice now removing his requirement to show backers the finances if he fails to deliver on time (he gave himself delivery plus 12 months, then he changed it to give himself another 18 months before being required to show the books, then he simply removed the requirement to show anything)  and he claims that he does not have to give any refunds but out of the goodness of his heart he will grant them on a case by case basis.

There has been a lot of water under the bridge but if you don't want to spend a weekend reading everything just look at the link I gave you for the pertinent points.

I strongly suggest you request a refund if you are not happy with what you see.

Roberts promised a whole lot but is now  backpedaling fast and much of the game will be a minimally viable product meaning that it will be a game only meant to demonstrate the backbone of the gameplay requiring further investments and long term development.
So for 159 million dollars we get a bloated demo project.
If anything will be delivered from Squadron 42 it might be a mission or two to prove there is a game and backers would have to pay to develop the rest.

Read up and request a refund while you are at it.

If you don't mind answering, how much are you in for? A basic package or more? I was in for $515 and got a refund.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2017, 05:53:27 AM by Spunky Munkee »

dsmart

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Re: Man, am I confused
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2017, 07:05:24 AM »
I backed this waaaaay back at the beginning of the original Kickstarter thinking I was buying into a new Wing Commander game with maybe some online components (I was picturing Starlancer or something I guess).

Real life got ahold of me and I was out of the loop for a long time and didn't pay attention to anything (I filter a lot of stuff out of my inbox so I didn't even keep up with the KS updates, especially since they were incredibly marketing like during the campaign, which I understood at the time but figured I'd already contributed).

Now I have some free time again and figured "oh hey self, that new Wing Commander game must at least be in beta by now, would be fun to check out."

...

WTF is this shit show?! I never signed up for a MMO or some Crytek in space?! (No offense to those that did but I don't remember that from the original KS, unless it was some possible stretch goal)

Now it's I don't even remember how long later, I downloaded... something? I can't tell if it's a game or some shareware shit demo you used to find on crappy "1,000 games" CDs. Some kind of FPS with a hangar and... what? I don't get it.

So I instead of playing Wing Commander 201X, I spent some time reading up on this clusterfuck and yeah, ok, I got some entertainment out of it, so if I got took (which seems highly likely), I can live with it.

But just for my sanity, can someone tell me:

1) Was there ever a WC like game pitched or did I just wishful think that?

2) Is a single player WC like game still in the alleged works? I don't have time to fully catch up and I can't figure out WTF is going on with 2.6/3.0 builds of something that doesn't even have a ship to fly (or more than a few rooms to walk around in), some Space Marine crap, Star Citizen and Squadron 42 (I thought Squadron 42 was the unit you would be playing in in Star Citizen?), some face crap videos that I don't know why I'd want in any game I'm playing, etc.

2b/3) I guess I need some kind of short summary of WTF happened? I'm gathering that there was so much pledged that these morons decided to run with the money and pitch some impossible thing instead of making the game they promised first and then doing whatever the hell they want.

4) From what little I've actually managed to catch up on, when are we expecting to see this on American Greed?

Sorry for the partial rant, but I needed to vent some.

Yeah, welcome to the farce. Enjoy your stay.  :smuggo:
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

dsmart

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Re: Man, am I confused
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2017, 07:14:55 AM »
Just yesterday the Lead on Squadron 42, the game you want announced that he was quitting.

As you talking about Joe? He was a level designer, not a lead.

Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

Spunky Munkee

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Re: Man, am I confused
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2017, 12:56:49 PM »
My bad. Still may indicate that progress has ended.

darkpen

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Re: Man, am I confused
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2017, 10:55:31 PM »
Yes there was a WC game originally pitched. What happened Chris ROberts and his swelled head. He kept getting contributions and kept increasing the scope, promising more and more. Just yesterday the Lead on Squadron 42, the game you want announced that he was quitting. All indications are that they had massive cost overruns, the netcode was crap causing massive issues, they missed delivery dates by years now ands in a last ditch effort to get the baby jesus (hail Mary full of grace, don't let all my backers quit and ask for refunds, the living has been good and I want my gravy train to keep going for years).

Well, at least I didn't imagine something that was never there. That's a slight relief. :)

So there is a whole us vs them war between the cultist backers and those who have left the project. They really are warped.

Yeah, I noticed that. I initially tried to catch up on things through Reddit, but it was over the top.

I doubt that the Squadron 42 is a priority for Chris Roberts since they are bleeding backers after missing the 3.0 delivery this summer(over a year late, at least), cutting a huge amount of promised content and having a total shit show at the gamescom. Look up the  twitch feed from "haters" somewhere linked on this site. You will piss your pants it was so bad. Embarrassing really.

Was that the one with "actors" playing the game? The little I watched was extremely cringe-inducing (reminded me of old Microsoft demos of "real-life usage" situations).

I would love to see Roberts go to prison for his waste and abuse of backers money but I am not entirely sure it fits the legal definition of fraud. He certainly knew he could not deliver early on but kept the smiles and sunshine routine to keep backers sending him money. It will be up to  some aggressive AG to decide.

I fell out of the loop because I joined a law firm, how appropriate. :P

I guess it all depends on what he did with the money. The fact that he started a studio and has something to show for it could be the start of a decent "reasonable commercial effort" defense. And you could counter that with expert testimony with how someone would actually start a successful studio with all the money he got. But then he could just claim he's actually incompetent to run a studio (which could actually be his best defense from what I've seen so far).

What kind of tickles me, however, is that you mentioned that there may be a mass request of refunds coming up. I think the last email from them that I got was something about selling something else like a ship or something. If someone could show that they're amassing funds because they expect that as well and are using the new money to pay out, that could be a good seed for a Ponzi investigation (you'd need forensic accounting to go through the books).

Dont believe the full press media that says Star Citizen is great and just around the corner. Its all paid for bullshit.

With backer money? :)

darkpen

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Re: Man, am I confused
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2017, 11:05:55 PM »
You see Chris Roberts has unilaterally changed the Terms Of Service twice now removing his requirement to show backers the finances if he fails to deliver on time (he gave himself delivery plus 12 months, then he changed it to give himself another 18 months before being required to show the books, then he simply removed the requirement to show anything)  and he claims that he does not have to give any refunds but out of the goodness of his heart he will grant them on a case by case basis.

Has anyone filed a class action anywhere? There are a lot of jurisdictions where you can't change the TOS on the fly like that, especially in this case where the product you initially signed up for has not been delivered yet (would be different if they had delivered and then changed the TOS).

My current jurisdiction is too small to have any effect or have enough people join, but someone over on the US side could make an impact I'm sure.

There has been a lot of water under the bridge but if you don't want to spend a weekend reading everything just look at the link I gave you for the pertinent points.

I strongly suggest you request a refund if you are not happy with what you see.

Yeah, thanks for that, definitely will look into it. Truth it, I'm not even remotely interested in the MMO, I really just backed a new WC game.

If you don't mind answering, how much are you in for? A basic package or more? I was in for $515 and got a refund.

I'm in for $37. This is the package on Kickstarter:

DIGITAL SCOUT: A digital copy of the finished game for your PC with your RSI Aurora spaceship ready to fly + 1,000 Galatic Credits + Exclusive access to the Alpha + Beta (digital tier, no physical rewards)

I don't remember if the description of it changed after the fact, but it makes sense (most of the stuff I backed back then I stuck with digital delivery).

darkpen

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Re: Man, am I confused
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2017, 11:10:49 PM »
Yeah, welcome to the farce. Enjoy your stay.  :smuggo:

Ha, thanks. It's actually becoming interesting in a watching a car wreck kind of way.

Serviceman

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Re: Man, am I confused
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2017, 01:30:12 AM »
Yeah, welcome to the farce. Enjoy your stay.  :smuggo:

Ha, thanks. It's actually becoming interesting in a watching a car wreck kind of way.

Partially the reason why I have not asked for a refund, plus I have only spent like $50 or $60 on this some years ago so I really do not care about the money anymore.  Been so long since I have looked at my account, I can't remember if I spent $50 or $60  :aaa:

Spunky Munkee

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Re: Man, am I confused
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2017, 03:03:42 AM »
For $37 it's almost worth it just to be able to post passive aggressive messages on Spectrum and trigger the cultists.

Chris Roberts, totally incompetent as a project manager. I can't say that they are amassing funds any longer since their expenses probably outweigh their income by a considerable margin and they have more than likely spent the majority of the money they have raised. The constant ship sales indicate to me that they need the income badly. Over 5 years in and they are nowhere close to completing Squadron 42 or the Persistant universe.

(Smokey and the bandit music, chorus) We got a long way to go and a low bank ac-count, I gotta sque-eze the bac-kers till they cry.

Their shooter Star Marine is terrible. I have played many better free to play games. Actually a game from 8 years ago called Shattered Horizon did space combat much better but sadly it was not the success it deserved to be and is gone from the marketplace (but not my steam inventory as it lives on in AI heaven).


darkpen

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Re: Man, am I confused
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2017, 03:39:28 AM »
For $37 it's almost worth it just to be able to post passive aggressive messages on Spectrum and trigger the cultists.

Chris Roberts, totally incompetent as a project manager. I can't say that they are amassing funds any longer since their expenses probably outweigh their income by a considerable margin and they have more than likely spent the majority of the money they have raised. The constant ship sales indicate to me that they need the income badly. Over 5 years in and they are nowhere close to completing Squadron 42 or the Persistant universe.

(Smokey and the bandit music, chorus) We got a long way to go and a low bank ac-count, I gotta sque-eze the bac-kers till they cry.

Their shooter Star Marine is terrible. I have played many better free to play games. Actually a game from 8 years ago called Shattered Horizon did space combat much better but sadly it was not the success it deserved to be and is gone from the marketplace (but not my steam inventory as it lives on in AI heaven).

...they have a forum? That's mighty tempting now. :)

Aya Reiko

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Re: Man, am I confused
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2017, 03:42:37 AM »
For $37 it's almost worth it just to be able to post passive aggressive messages on Spectrum and trigger the cultists.

Chris Roberts, totally incompetent as a project manager. I can't say that they are amassing funds any longer since their expenses probably outweigh their income by a considerable margin and they have more than likely spent the majority of the money they have raised. The constant ship sales indicate to me that they need the income badly. Over 5 years in and they are nowhere close to completing Squadron 42 or the Persistant universe.

(Smokey and the bandit music, chorus) We got a long way to go and a low bank ac-count, I gotta sque-eze the bac-kers till they cry.

Their shooter Star Marine is terrible. I have played many better free to play games. Actually a game from 8 years ago called Shattered Horizon did space combat much better but sadly it was not the success it deserved to be and is gone from the marketplace (but not my steam inventory as it lives on in AI heaven).

...they have a forum? That's mighty tempting now. :)
You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. You must be cautious.

Motto

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Re: Man, am I confused
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2017, 03:56:47 AM »
And any negative comment will get you instantly banned. It's not worth the effort there. The best statement you can make it ask for a refund. Even if it's just for 40 bucks. Give it to charity when you get it back, just don't let Chris get away with his millions in salary. Or his croonies for that matter.

 

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