Smart Community
Games => Star Citizen => Topic started by: dsmart on August 17, 2017, 05:46:30 AM
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CIG Gamescom 2017 Event Clock Countdown (https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/launch?iso=20170825T21&p0=311&msg=CIG+Gamescom+Event&font=sanserif)
Gamescom 2947 Details (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/16061-Gamescom-2947-Details)
Never forget!
(http://i.imgur.com/4dQifUB.jpg)
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(http://i.imgur.com/wchUMyj.jpg)
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(http://i.imgur.com/DODBg6F.jpg)
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(http://i.imgur.com/8o2RwMe.jpg)
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Brilliant - can't wait for Serendipity to misunderstand this one
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In just.... NaN? Sodium nitride? Na3N?
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Not a number.
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I wouldn't be suprised if Sandi really believe that those 2 "jokes" will actually work on what's left of the die-hard Shitizens and tweets it herself :D
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I am sure whatever they will show will be good as their life is dependent on it. I know what will happen people like serendipity will be like see we told you there is development. and will throw more money at cig. After enough money is gathered chris will take a cruise somewhere and maybe we will be at 3.2 next year at gamesconn( stripped down version obviously). Thats what will happen till 2021. :psyduck: :laugh:
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I don't think they will make it. A fancy demo won't satisfy backers. Last years demo is nowhere to be found. A brilliant demo will make backers angry. Why waste time and money on another demo when 3.0 is still MIA. No matter how Chris will talk about his visions, his dreams, his plans and all the difficulties when doing things nobody has done before, backers want more. They want something they can actually play with. Doesn't matter how crappy (to some extend) but give us something. There will come a point when they demand that whatever is ready will be released and they will comment and report on the bugs. And that is when Chris has to admit that there just isn't anything there to be released or he has to release the crap he does have and that will be much, much, much worse than any backer could ever have imagined.
Chris is fucked, no matter how you look at it. Unless he has lots of money left, which he doesn't. It wouldn't surprise me if 2017 is the last year of CIG...
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This year's presentation will truly be interesting for many reasons. If they don't show significant progress then rotten fruit may be hurled. If Chris gives any time scales I shall ignore them completely. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me a thousand times and fuck you!
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I don't think they will make it. A fancy demo won't satisfy backers. Last years demo is nowhere to be found. A brilliant demo will make backers angry. Why waste time and money on another demo when 3.0 is still MIA. No matter how Chris will talk about his visions, his dreams, his plans and all the difficulties when doing things nobody has done before, backers want more. They want something they can actually play with. Doesn't matter how crappy (to some extend) but give us something. There will come a point when they demand that whatever is ready will be released and they will comment and report on the bugs. And that is when Chris has to admit that there just isn't anything there to be released or he has to release the crap he does have and that will be much, much, much worse than any backer could ever have imagined.
Chris is fucked, no matter how you look at it. Unless he has lots of money left, which he doesn't. It wouldn't surprise me if 2017 is the last year of CIG...
According to my sources, nobody quite knows what to do about GamesCom yet. And that was the same sentiment just last week!
They won't be doing any R&D demos this time apparently. But though my sources claim that rumors suggesting that streamers will be playing 2.6.3 during the show are false, one specific source has said that the goal is to live play sessions of 3.0 running in the same manner that they have done in the past. So far no word on whether or not streamers will be allowed to play it; either live during the show, or in closed sessions. Especially since it's still running at around 10 fps when you hit the moon. And that's on a LAN (which is what they will be running at the show).
So far, no word on SQ42.
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So far, no word on SQ42.
They have to show something. If SQ42 is a complete no-show the result is hard to calculate for them. And how hard can it be to show something - anything? They somehow showed the Morrow-Tour. They'll have something. Some sort of trailer-video I'd guess, no live demo (bc then there would've been a trailer by now I think). But I don't think they'll risk going to gamescom without anything at all regarding SQ42.
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So far, no word on SQ42.
They have to show something. If SQ42 is a complete no-show the result is hard to calculate for them. And how hard can it be to show something - anything? They somehow showed the Morrow-Tour. They'll have something. Some sort of trailer-video I'd guess, no live demo (bc then there would've been a trailer by now I think). But I don't think they'll risk going to gamescom without anything at all regarding SQ42.
Right. Well they did show The Morrow Tour back in 2015. Even though they got flak last year for not showing it, I don't think they care anymore. Especially since it's most definitely not coming out this year at all.
Both GamesCom and CitizenCon are going to be a balancing act in every regard.
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Gamescom 2947 Details (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/16061-Gamescom-2947-Details)
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Gamescom 2947 Details (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/16061-Gamescom-2947-Details)
So from this Wednesday the 23rd when they start livestreaming the game in their show booth we'll be able to see what 3.0 actually is (or isn't). It's funny they announced the show ship sale before they even announced these details, not a good omen.
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They don't say what version they are streaming though.
If it isn't the current build then there will be some awkward questions about why they haven't released anything this year.
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Nice to see they still have faith with "Fifth Annual Gamescom Presentation and Party".
:lesnick: Fifth and Final Annual Gamescom Presentation and Party :sandance:
most likely would be more accurate
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I don't think they will make it. A fancy demo won't satisfy backers. Last years demo is nowhere to be found. A brilliant demo will make backers angry. Why waste time and money on another demo when 3.0 is still MIA. No matter how Chris will talk about his visions, his dreams, his plans and all the difficulties when doing things nobody has done before, backers want more. They want something they can actually play with. Doesn't matter how crappy (to some extend) but give us something. There will come a point when they demand that whatever is ready will be released and they will comment and report on the bugs. And that is when Chris has to admit that there just isn't anything there to be released or he has to release the crap he does have and that will be much, much, much worse than any backer could ever have imagined.
Chris is fucked, no matter how you look at it. Unless he has lots of money left, which he doesn't. It wouldn't surprise me if 2017 is the last year of CIG...
Yes but you are forgetting the Sunk Cost fallacy and confirmation bias.
It is an SC event and Backers breasts will be swollen to Lesnick proportions as they watch the shitshow.
No post purchase dissonance here.
(https://i.imgflip.com/zclj5.jpg)
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They don't say what version they are streaming though.
If it isn't the current build then there will be some awkward questions about why they haven't released anything this year.
Several sources (it has also been rumored these past few days) have said that streamers will be playing the current 2.6.3. And it's still up in the air whether or not CIG will even be playing/streaming 3.0 or not seeing as it's a crash fest, a performance hog, and none of the shit they've been showcasing on their broadcast, actually works.
Mere months ago both GameStar.de and PC Gamer claimed to have "played" 3.0. It would be hilarious if CIG didn't actually play or show 3.0.
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*moved*
So If I remember Derek said he had so much informations from inside CIG that he will tell us today "21 August" what are we going to see during the show ?
So now I'm asking you, to proove you are right, can u tell us what informations you got for Friday ?
I hope You will do it, If you don't tell us what you promise, I will know that u never had any informations form inside CIG.
You're going to have to do a lot better than that, mate :bahgawd:
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The three official Star Citizen streamers at GC2017
https://twitter.com/TheAstroPub/status/898705854278508545
https://twitter.com/DeejayKnight
https://twitter.com/SGT_Gamble
https://twitter.com/Myre_Test
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/899643171596095488
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https://twitter.com/RobertsSpaceInd/status/899640380681056256
A little sneak peak at their GamesCom setup.
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https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/899644748436094977
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I think we need more hype
(http://i.imgur.com/PdlWt0h.jpg)
Also, Star Citizen Twitch streamer stats/subs
WTFO - 33k
Twerk - 12k
BoredGamer - 6.2k
Astropub - 6.2k
Relay.sc - 1k
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Who knows, they might have a vertical slice of SQ42 to show :ughh:
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Who knows, they might have a vertical slice of SQ42 to show :ughh:
I won't bet money on that. :laugh:
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/899649809057009664
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https://twitter.com/RobertsSpaceInd/status/899640380681056256
A little sneak peak at their GamesCom setup.
I am not making this up, but I've just learned that they setup specific "slices" of the game; not the full build. They do NOT. I repeat, they do NOT have the full 3.0 game build currently on those systems being shown. That "Daymar" section being shown, is just a "level" setup. IT IS NOT THE FULL GAME!!
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On the off-chance you thought there was EVER going to be a game. Read this. They aren't even 15% of the way to a "game" yet, let alone anywhere near fulfilling backer promises. 6yrs + $156M.
https://starcitizentracker.github.io/
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/899658046414180352
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https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/899660765396914176
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Ooops, seems everyone on Reddit is under the impression that 3.0 has arrived early :lol: :vince:
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6v3bmz/showing_a_30_variant_at_gamescom/
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6v3c1g/so_i_guess_theyre_playing_a_30_build_at/
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https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/899660765396914176
In case u were wondering, the use of these "levels" in this presentation, is further evidence that seamless space<->planets is probably NYI
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Ooops, seems everyone on Reddit is under the impression that 3.0 has arrived early :lol: :vince:
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6v3bmz/showing_a_30_variant_at_gamescom/
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6v3c1g/so_i_guess_theyre_playing_a_30_build_at/
LOL!! Yeah. :laugh:
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6v3c1g/so_i_guess_theyre_playing_a_30_build_at/dlxdgn5/
How can you possibly justify that the first people to touch any version of 3.0 outside of CIG are Members of the gaming media, who have spend 5 years doing their very best to destroy SC, and people who payed for a ticket to gamescom and a flight to Germany, and not people who backed the Project?
How can you justify that people with zero investment in SC get to Fly a Nox around on a planet before people who Backed the Game and own a Nox?
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6v3c1g/so_i_guess_theyre_playing_a_30_build_at/dlxeiyx/
Why is a press build unfit for people who very specifically backed for alpha access? CIG is a company that exists because of the goodwill and trust of the people who gave them money, they would have no long term to think about if not for the backers they continuously snub in the name of "attracting new backers".
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Ooops, seems everyone on Reddit is under the impression that 3.0 has arrived early :lol: :vince:
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6v3bmz/showing_a_30_variant_at_gamescom/
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6v3c1g/so_i_guess_theyre_playing_a_30_build_at/
LOL!! Yeah. :laugh:
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6v3c1g/so_i_guess_theyre_playing_a_30_build_at/dlxdgn5/
How can you possibly justify that the first people to touch any version of 3.0 outside of CIG are Members of the gaming media, who have spend 5 years doing their very best to destroy SC, and people who payed for a ticket to gamescom and a flight to Germany, and not people who backed the Project?
How can you justify that people with zero investment in SC get to Fly a Nox around on a planet before people who Backed the Game and own a Nox?
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6v3c1g/so_i_guess_theyre_playing_a_30_build_at/dlxeiyx/
Why is a press build unfit for people who very specifically backed for alpha access? CIG is a company that exists because of the goodwill and trust of the people who gave them money, they would have no long term to think about if not for the backers they continuously snub in the name of "attracting new backers".
lmao the shitizens immediately downvote both of those posts.THAT'S why the media gets to play new things first; because cr is at least smart enough to realize his cult will attempt to silence anyone whom complains about it. The sick aspect of this is that a lot of the sc cultists have burned bridges with RL friends over sc and have such an emotional investment with the community (which have become their family for all intents and purposes) that they don't really see any meaning outside of their online cig-life and that's enough to keep them toeing the line.
edit: incredible to see the shitizens trying to justify this as a good thing "because marketing". There is one thing that sc hasn't lacked over the years and that is marketing.
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lmao the shitizens immediately downvote both of those posts.THAT'S why the media gets to play new things first; because cr is at least smart enough to realize his cult will attempt to silence anyone whom complains about it. The sick aspect of this is that a lot of the sc cultists have burned bridges with RL friends over sc and have such an emotional investment with the community (which have become their family for all intents and purposes) that they don't really see any meaning outside of their online cig-life and that's enough to keep them toeing the line.
edit: incredible to see the shitizens trying to justify this as a good thing "because marketing". There is one thing that sc hasn't lacked over the years and that is marketing.
It's actually worse than that. Basically, by doing this, CIG is communicating that new backers are their priority, not the old backers whose money they already have. And they need to reach those new backers via the media. And the way to do that, is by giving media access to builds that even existing backers don't have.
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Meanwhile, over there at SA (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?goto=post&postid=475592637#post475592637), the Goon enclave where we plot the demise of Star Citizen.
Just remember: Star Citizen 3.0 features:
5 new landable planets
New moons, space stations, and asteroid belts
Trading
Cargo Transport
Piracy
"Mercenary"
Bounty Hunting
Diverse NPC Actions
Day And Night Cycles
Increased Mission Complexity
Economy Driven Missions
Item 2.0
StarNetwork 1.0
Subsumption 1.0
Mission 1.0
And they demo'd all of this in a live, totally unscripted gameplay preview in August of last year. So whatever they show at this new convention, after one full year of development, is guaranteed to have all of that stuff in it or they wouldn't be calling it 3.0, right?
Amazingly, while reddit is fighting a war against goon trolls and their FUD, the top comments on the paywalled Spectrum forums are almost all angry and salty as fuck.
Examples:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/3-0-version-playable-at-gamescom-confirmed (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/3-0-version-playable-at-gamescom-confirmed)
The top comment is [Deleted] 2nd is a picture of the cult spaceship from The Simpsons falling apart.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/i-was-away-for-5-months (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/i-was-away-for-5-months)
"Come back in a year or two, we will have 1,000 concept ships and no gameplay."
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/let-s-plan-this-now-3-0-large-scale-planetary-war (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/let-s-plan-this-now-3-0-large-scale-planetary-war)
"Aye. It shall surely be remembered in the SC history books! The great 24 people War of 3.0! Lasted 6 minutes. Caused a server crash. The end."
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/melt-or-money-gamescom-edition (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/melt-or-money-gamescom-edition)
"No fresh money until something substantial is being delivered. I've been waiting for almost two years now to justify spending more, yet CIG failed to follow up on 2.0."
Good job with the misdirection campaign you guys.
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Ooops, seems everyone on Reddit is under the impression that 3.0 has arrived early :lol: :vince:
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6v3bmz/showing_a_30_variant_at_gamescom/
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6v3c1g/so_i_guess_theyre_playing_a_30_build_at/
LOL!! Yeah. :laugh:
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6v3c1g/so_i_guess_theyre_playing_a_30_build_at/dlxdgn5/
How can you possibly justify that the first people to touch any version of 3.0 outside of CIG are Members of the gaming media, who have spend 5 years doing their very best to destroy SC, and people who payed for a ticket to gamescom and a flight to Germany, and not people who backed the Project?
How can you justify that people with zero investment in SC get to Fly a Nox around on a planet before people who Backed the Game and own a Nox?
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6v3c1g/so_i_guess_theyre_playing_a_30_build_at/dlxeiyx/
Why is a press build unfit for people who very specifically backed for alpha access? CIG is a company that exists because of the goodwill and trust of the people who gave them money, they would have no long term to think about if not for the backers they continuously snub in the name of "attracting new backers".
lmao the shitizens immediately downvote both of those posts.THAT'S why the media gets to play new things first; because cr is at least smart enough to realize his cult will attempt to silence anyone whom complains about it. The sick aspect of this is that a lot of the sc cultists have burned bridges with RL friends over sc and have such an emotional investment with the community (which have become their family for all intents and purposes) that they don't really see any meaning outside of their online cig-life and that's enough to keep them toeing the line.
edit: incredible to see the shitizens trying to justify this as a good thing "because marketing". There is one thing that sc hasn't lacked over the years and that is marketing.
Lying to people isnt marketing.
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OMG - BoredGamer has gone into full salesman / zealot mode, basically selling Star Citizen to new players. He manages to effuse over SC for over 20 minutes!! :
From the Text:
Squadron 42 is the Single Player Campaign and the Spiritual Successor of Wing Commander. The Idea is the game is maximum pretty and seamless... NO LOADING SCREENS. It's currently in the Alpha of it's open development with the hope that SQ42 will be released Q4 2017 - Q2 2018.
:lol:
Best Quotes from the video:
00.59: Probably some of the best character creation that's ever existed, when it comes down to the fidelity and the detail of the headscans and the faces
15:10 On planets we'll see procedural cities ... allowing for massive city planets to exist in game and look pretty good
16.18 A major planned mechanic is now base building
?? is this the big reveal / gamechanger ??
21:00 I'm expecting the game to go into beta mid 2019
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Lying to people isnt marketing.
Try telling that to Sandi Gardiner (https://web.archive.org/web/20140103222149/https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12913-Meet-Sandi-Gardiner).
FYI, they removed that page following my 2015 expose. Here is what the last capture looked like from 2013 (https://web.archive.org/web/20140103222149/https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12913-Meet-Sandi-Gardiner).
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"I won't be buying again until 4.0. I have a Cutlass Black, Hornet Tracker, Prospector and Aurora LN. That's enough until Beta. Whenever that will be? Hope i'm not a pensioner by then."
I love the way they think that a jpeg is something they have (worth/actually what they paid for)
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OMG - BoredGamer has gone into full salesman / zealot mode, basically selling Star Citizen to new players. He manages to effuse over SC for over 20 minutes!! :
Yeah, he's been like that for awhile now. It's hilarious.
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https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/899743469056471040
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https://twitter.com/Xocliw/status/899938260264288256
Oh dear - the Space Engineers guy gets to play with new features at GamesCom which the backers don't get access to. Some of the responses:
https://twitter.com/AkiranBlade/status/899943730983170053
https://twitter.com/Trakkar_Torr/status/899963136018718721
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Doesn't it warm the cockles to see someone employed by a different company in the same field as CIG cheering them on?
https://mobile.twitter.com/Xocliw/status/899938260264288256
Isn't that nice? Stripped down 3.0 it may be but still exciting for those playing it. A cryengine map the size of a small planetoid is impressive. No other game has come close to a cryengine map that size.
Looking forward to seeing Chris' big surprise on Friday. Will we get your predictions before then Derek?
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Doesn't it warm the cockles to see someone employed by a different company in the same field as CIG cheering them on?
Yes, I get a warm fuzzy glow when a competitor gets to play more of the game than the backers who've enabled the game's creation. :lol:
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Yes, I get a warm fuzzy glow when a competitor gets to play more of the game than the backers who've enabled the game's creation. :lol:
Yes, thats a low blow...anyway will see how this and other failures impact next big +400$ chariot sales...
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https://twitter.com/Xocliw/status/899921824229797888
https://twitter.com/Xocliw/status/899925100409081856
Oh dear - the Space Engineers guy gets to play with new features at GamesCom which the backers don't get access to. Some of the responses:
Well they have accepted it. When CIG keeps showcasing features to the media in order to attract new backers, while ignoring existing backers who already gave them $156M, wtf did they expect? They deserve it. All of it. And it's only going to get worse (just wait for what comes next - it's amazing).
What he fails to mention is that it's just a CryEngine level (similar to the one with the Nox from yesterday) they keep queuing and reloading, and not the full game. Basically, this would be like you going to a show, and the developers let you play a demo/test level from their fps game.
They do NOT have the full 3.0 game installed on those machines; so there is none of the usual gameplay mechanics of :
- start client
- get out of your wank pod
- go to a terminal, get a ship
- go to platform, enter ship
- fly to moon|planetoid
- enter moon|planetoid
- land
- exit ship
- walk around in fps
- locate a vehicle, use it, drive around
- exit vehicle
- enter ship
- fly back to space
NONE of that gameplay loop is at the show as of this minute. And for a space game, they're showcasing planetary vehicles and access, features which most games with those, already have.
FYI, word is they are apparently running 1080TI cards in those rigs. So yeah.
This also explains why, ahead of GamesCom, they removed (08/11 (http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=29.msg2676#msg2676), 08/18 (http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=29.msg2839#msg2839)) the dates from the dev schedule. The issue is that whatever they show this close (08/22 - 08/26) to GamesCom, as per the previous schedule aim dates (08/16 - 09/05) is what backers would have expected to be receiving in Aug/Sept time frame. But since the public schedule has been proven to be completely arbitrary and pure bullshit (see my 08/05 write-up (http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=29.msg2473#msg2473)) that's not reflective of the actual internal dev schedule, removing the dates means they no longer have to keep shifting the goal posts with dates.
As I had mentioned earlier, the fact that GameStar.de and PC Gamer (Chris Livingston) recently claimed to have "played" 3.0, which, due to print mag lead times means probably 2-3 months before they went to print in July, leads me to believe that they pulled this same stunt by firing up levels, then giving the controls to the media person. Here is my exchange (http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=29.msg2031;topicseen#msg2031) with Livingston. And here is Reddit's translation (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6nau6m/gamestar_titelstory_summary/) of the GameStar article. Both of which suspiciously appeared the month before GamesCom.
So apparently they still need another 24hrs before they can actually stream the game. So that's on DAY 3 of a 5 day event. It's almost as if they don't have a working 3.0 build. These. Fucking. Jokers.
https://twitter.com/discolando/status/899926603756699648
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Isn't that nice? Stripped down 3.0 it may be but still exciting for those playing it. A cryengine map the size of a small planetoid is impressive. No other game has come close to a cryengine map that size.
All bang on time as well! Another 6 years and hopefully they'll be wrapping up production!
Also isn't the official line is "pre-patch" 3.0? Which means not 3.0.
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(http://i.imgur.com/0KmuiZw.gif)
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That is a dev and streamer giving backers the middle finger for complaining about access to the game. Yeah.
(http://i.imgur.com/7zUGr4I.png)
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The faces of two scam artists (brothers) who have thus far ripped off gamers to the tune of $156M (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tMAP0fg-AKScI3S3VjrDW3OaLO4zgBA1RSYoQOQoNSI/htmlview#).
Chris (left) used over $75M of backer money to build a studio for brother Erin (right) in the UK. A studio that has NO reason to exist.
That UK studio, the largest of the 4 involved in Star Citizen, burns through over 75% of the project's yearly funding.
Erin, as per the 2016 financials (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08703814/filing-history), makes over $300K a year. Excluding benefits. In 6 yrs + $156M, they have yet to ship a SINGLE game.
(http://imgur.com/hHxOfRH.jpg)
http://twitter.com/RobertsSpaceInd/status/899993868820774913/photo/1
UPDATE: Goon version.
(http://i.imgur.com/1j9YXqU.png)
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Glad I don't watch grandkids this week. :dance: This is going to be really fun to watch. :laugh: We should have a contest on who will be served and arrested first down the line in 2017! :thumbsup:
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No reason to exist? How about the fact there is a lot of dev talent here in the UK? How about the fact it's cheaper here to develop because of the tax incentive? How about the fact they're making two games at the same time requiring a large dev team? How about the fact the UK is just downright awesome...apart from our weather?
You're sounding a little over excited Derek to be honest. I think you should calm down a little.
Do we get your predictions before Friday, by the way, or not?
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No reason to exist?
It has NO reason to exist.
How about the fact there is a lot of dev talent here in the UK?
Not a fact. That's all in your head.
There are no more talented people in the UK, than there are in the US. :laugh:
How about the fact it's cheaper here to develop because of the tax incentive?
Not a fact. That's all in your head.
The dev costs in the US are cheaper than in the UK. And as evidenced by their own financials, even with a measly tax credit, they are still burning through over 3x what a studio in the US would.
How about the fact they're making two games at the same time requiring a large dev team?
Not a fact. It's all in your head.
It doesn't matter how many games they are making, those two games can still be made here in the US. Not to mention the fact that there have been MANY US based third-party devs (e.g. Illfonic, Behavior Interactive etc) who have been involved at some point or another on the SAME project.
How about the fact the UK is just downright awesome...apart from our weather?
Not a fact. It's all in your head.
The notion that UK weather is "downright awesome" is easily the most hilarious part of your post. Considering it's in location like Wimslow is even more hilarious.
You're sounding a little over excited Derek to be honest. I think you should calm down a little.
Said the hypocrite responding to me.
Do we get your predictions before Friday, by the way, or not?
Again, that's all in your head. You should be asking CIG about your game, not me. I'm just in for the lols and to watch you clowns squirm and cry each time CIG screws up.
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Live updating during Games Com (https://i.redd.it/8d6yvyfyqahz.jpg) Yeah, that really looks (https://i.redd.it/8d6yvyfyqahz.jpg) professional :woop:
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Lying about a bad Photoshop? Naughty.
Get a sense of humour.
what happens when they release the whole thing? Your head may explode...
I was wrong ! - you are funny :lol: :laugh: :lol:
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Live updating during Games Com (https://i.redd.it/8d6yvyfyqahz.jpg) Yeah, that really looks (https://i.redd.it/8d6yvyfyqahz.jpg) professional :woop:
It's almost as if they didn't have a 3.0 build :shrug:
(https://i.redd.it/8d6yvyfyqahz.jpg)
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Get a sense of humour.
Since he keeps getting triggered, he's in timeout until after GamesCom. Hopefully his blood pressure will thank me. :smuggo:
I was wrong ! - you are funny :lol: :laugh: :lol:
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See the Red "replace me" texture balls? That's the build being played right now at GamesCom. And that's just a single CryEngine level - not the full game.
(http://i.imgur.com/4X2RnTE.jpg)
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https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/900033714725548032
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https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/900037567239925760
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https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/900039516425248768
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Wait! You thought I was making it up when I said the 3.0 build WAS NOT at GC?
https://twitter.com/Vinsentto/status/900037332207906816
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The faces of two scam artists (brothers) who have thus far ripped off gamers to the tune of $156M (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tMAP0fg-AKScI3S3VjrDW3OaLO4zgBA1RSYoQOQoNSI/htmlview#).
Chris (left) used over $75M of backer money to build a studio for brother Erin (right) in the UK. A studio that has NO reason to exist.
That UK studio, the largest of the 4 involved in Star Citizen, burns through over 75% of the project's yearly funding.
Erin, as per the 2016 financials (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08703814/filing-history), makes over $300K a year. Excluding benefits. In 6 yrs + $156M, they have yet to ship a SINGLE game.
(http://imgur.com/hHxOfRH.jpg)
http://twitter.com/RobertsSpaceInd/status/899993868820774913/photo/1
UPDATE: Goon version.
(http://i.imgur.com/1j9YXqU.png)
Meanwhile, elsewhere...
I can understand if you think the pay is too high, though.
That is fairly delusional. £142k per year puts you in the top 1% of earners in the UK, and Erin is on twice that. His CV before CIG consists of 14 years of forgettable lego games.
It isn’t a matter of ‘thinking’ his pay is too high, his pay is objectively far higher than he would ever receive in an open job market. You really aren’t doing yourself any favours in being a reasonable counterpoint to all the naysayers when you come out with nonsense like that. First you tried to argue that he wasn’t receiving that much and then you try to argue that it isn’t actually that much. You’re quite clearly goalpost moving.
The Star Citizen project took in $36million in 2016. Almost 1% of the entire money taken in by the project went to one Director in their UK subsidiary - and you think that that’s reasonable.
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Luckily, we'll see the daily revenu stats shooting for the stars again, because, you know, stuff. Like a fully working, not pre-sliced, not pre-load, fully delta-patched, massive online pre-stage alpha 3.0 build. That'll be worth a JPEG of $ 400,- at the minimum :dance:
Show.... me.... the.... MONEY!
No, seriously, show me the money. I need it. I need it now. I fucked up. Again! Gimme! Look at those pretty pictures and those specially build separate R&D levels. Can't you see the game that I envision(ed) through them? I'll polish them and show them again at ShitizenCon in October. With more fidelity! That worked last year too!
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https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/900065510112587777
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/900065299843739650
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/900064814193684482
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/900064530126053376
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/900064033272987649
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/900063640887459840
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/900063313362604033
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/900063021061611521
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DH2ZXeBU0AAp14S.jpg)
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Today's live stream (on-going) is an embarrassment of lols. You can watch on Twitch (http://twitch.tv/starcitizen) or YouTube (below)
The highlights:
- The full 3.0 client is NOT being played. Just as I stated. So you won't be seeing ANY of the game loop I listed here (http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=76.msg2919#msg2919)
- They have a single moon "level", Daymar, where everyone spawns
- No PU and/or space travel, means that's it: a single moon. You don't see ANY of the full game loop
- They have to reset the server every 15 mins. Ponder that
- Repeated crashes (seemingly every 10 minutes), hard locks etc
- Only 8-12 clients are allowed to connect
- The Mobiglass they have been touting, and which is currently marked as complete? DISABLED
- You can see all the glitches (e.g. DJ Knight trying to get into vehicle without success), rubbish dynamics model, terrain clipping, no-clip modeling, no damage collision on terrain, no fps damage etc. I will post some clips later, but here are some for now: 1 (https://clips.twitch.tv/MoldySmoothWatercressPeteZaroll), 2 (https://clips.twitch.tv/DrabRudeSheepKappaClaus), 3 (https://clips.twitch.tv/ShinyBovineAnacondaPRChase), 4 (https://clips.twitch.tv/BlatantExpensiveCroissantNotLikeThis), 5 (https://clips.twitch.tv/RockyStrongWaffleLitFam), 6 (https://clips.twitch.tv/WimpyRealEyeballTBTacoLeft), 7 (https://clips.twitch.tv/EnchantingFamousLemurDAESuppy)
Worst part? The current 2.6.3 game isn't even playable at the show. So for the next 3 days, they're going to be playing this ganky bullshit on repeat. And still no word of SQ42.
As I said yesterday, they basically came to GamesCom 2017 with a big CryEngine level. That's it. No full 3.0 game..
Also, they aren't showing ANY of the gameplay features because, well, they simply aren't there. No trading. No cargo manipulation. No missions. No AI entities. No Mobiglass. No gameplay loop. No QD. No gravity. Like nothing - AT ALL.
Basically, since they're using a moon "level" which isn't attached to anything, there is no need for QT as there's nothing to travel to.
Lando is basically choreographing the stream, just like they do when Chris is on stage. As soon as something is about to glitch, they switch cameras. It's the same old thing all over again. DECEPTION.
Oh and...
- They introduced trading cards. TRADING CARDS!
- They are giving out QR codes which give access to an exclusive...wait for it...SHIP SALE!
Remember when I said that 3.0 didn't exist? And it's been almost a year? And that they didn't even have 3.0 in ANY playable form ready for release? Well, you're seeing it. And this goes back to sources saying that 3.0 to be released in ANY reasonable playable form, needs at least SIX more months. And even then, that's if they can fix the INSURMOUNTABLE engine issues.
This is why sources were saying (http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=76.msg2804#msg2804) that it's likely that streamers would be playing 2.6.3 and that if they attempted 3.0, which wasn't ready, it would be a disaster.
According to my sources, nobody quite knows what to do about GamesCom yet. And that was the same sentiment just last week!
They won't be doing any R&D demos this time apparently. But though my sources claim that rumors suggesting that streamers will be playing 2.6.3 during the show are false, one specific source has said that the goal is to live play sessions of 3.0 running in the same manner that they have done in the past. So far no word on whether or not streamers will be allowed to play it; either live during the show, or in closed sessions. Especially since it's still running at around 10 fps when you hit the moon. And that's on a LAN (which is what they will be running at the show).
So far, no word on SQ42.
Ask yourself this. WHERE is the build that GameStar.de and PC Gamer reportable played MONTHS ago, and in which at least PC Gamer claimed to have been able to fly in space, land on a moon etc. This is my exchange with Chris Livingston from PC Gamer (http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=29.msg2031;topicseen#msg2031) who wrote this article (http://www.pcgamer.com/first-man-on-the-moon-hands-on-with-star-citizen-alpha-30/) this past July. And NONE of what you see here from the article (http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=27.msg2854#msg2854), is actually in the game. Those are ALL bull shots.
This 3.0 build as explained by Lando @ 17:31
What you are seeing is Star Citizen after SIX YEARS + $156M.
This is what the Star Citizen Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/) looks like - right now.
This is what Spectrum (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3?page=1&sort=hot) looks like - right now.
Anyone who, for one minute, though a "game" was ever coming from this, is an ignorant fool.
A word from our sponsors. A FLYING ground rover.
(http://i.imgur.com/sinTqQ2.jpg)
Goon compilation of hilarity:
Flying rover clipping into mountain - https://clips.twitch.tv/SweetSneakyHawkDansGame (https://clips.twitch.tv/SweetSneakyHawkDansGame)
Crash - https://clips.twitch.tv/SpookyCuteHorseBigBrother (https://clips.twitch.tv/SpookyCuteHorseBigBrother)
Doors Fucked - https://clips.twitch.tv/ChillyPiercingNikudonCoolStoryBro (https://clips.twitch.tv/ChillyPiercingNikudonCoolStoryBro)
Balsa Wood Physics - https://clips.twitch.tv/RockyStrongWaffleLitFam (https://clips.twitch.tv/RockyStrongWaffleLitFam)
Still Invulnerable - https://clips.twitch.tv/PoliteSuspiciousCheesecakeOptimizePrime (https://clips.twitch.tv/PoliteSuspiciousCheesecakeOptimizePrime)
Cool Desync Bro - https://clips.twitch.tv/LovelyRenownedDogePJSalt (https://clips.twitch.tv/LovelyRenownedDogePJSalt)
Ram Clipping - https://clips.twitch.tv/TangentialHumbleSardinePipeHype (https://clips.twitch.tv/TangentialHumbleSardinePipeHype)
Animation Jank - https://clips.twitch.tv/AnnoyingPlacidMartenTBTacoLeft (https://clips.twitch.tv/AnnoyingPlacidMartenTBTacoLeft)
Rover = https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/IdioticIdealFanworms (https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/IdioticIdealFanworms)
Crash = https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/SillyFriendlyDegus (https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/SillyFriendlyDegus)
Trapped = https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/FakeUnitedCuckoo (https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/FakeUnitedCuckoo)
Physics = https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/ShrillTalkativeGavial (https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/ShrillTalkativeGavial)
IDDQD = https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/CheeryNaiveBabirusa (https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/CheeryNaiveBabirusa)
Desync = https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/AcceptableFatalDrafthorse (https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/AcceptableFatalDrafthorse)
Clippy = https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/SinfulNauticalFurseal (https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/SinfulNauticalFurseal)
Jank = https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/EminentUnripeChinesecrocodilelizard (https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/EminentUnripeChinesecrocodilelizard)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DH604FDXkAAJLHC.jpg)
UPDATED:
More hilarious highlights.
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(http://i.imgur.com/D1gFnaQ.gif)
One guy went to space outside the atmosphere, tried to EVA and found out that the demo level has no space in it anyway, just a simple gravity constant that pushes things down regardless of altitude/speed.
He promptly proceeded to fall towards the ground, while trying to swim frantically.
The other guy saw him and started moving towards his ship (which just froze in place above the planet since the pilot ejected). Then he proceeded to crash (blue text on the bottom), the camera moved again to the swimming guy (with lando trying to change the narrative), and then the server got reset all-together.
Pretty adorable gameplay.
(http://i.imgur.com/8wL2hBx.jpg)
If ever there was a time to not feel bad about whales it's now. They just learned that 3.0 is now estimated for December 2017. A patch that a year ago they were told should be out Dec 2016. Instead of asking for accountability, or even just asking where the fuck 85% of 3.0 is, they're making a mad dash for their wallet to give Chris more money. Reason has failed. Pity serves no one's interest. Laughing is pretty much the only sane thing left to do.
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Watch Brian Chambers, head of F42-GER studio for 45 mins unable to answer a SINGLE question. Starts @ 08:00
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/169158701?t=08m33s
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Meanwhile, over there...
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6vfoud/gamescom_event_megathread/dm0kzy5/
(http://i.imgur.com/fZqMIsq.png)
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6vfoud/gamescom_event_megathread/dm0h5k2/
(http://i.imgur.com/vP4NKUX.png)
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Just FF to 2:34:34 as Lando explains how what was streamed today (and tomorrow), is the actual 3.0 build. But wait! On Friday Chris Roberts is going to be showing the REAL stuff.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/169133635
Wait! There's more. Friday is just a noisy distraction, but with Almighty Chris Roberts.
It's going to be HILARIOUS to see how they explain a presentation with Chris Roberts showing stuff that's "disabled" in the Wed/Thurs stream, but is somehow magically "working" in the Friday build.
Not to mention that whole thing about them being disabled in order to have people "see & interact with each other"
And this isn't even the apex of the E.L.E. No, that's still coming.
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The best part is people defending the lack of features. Since it would be impossible to show all of SC, it's logical that they only opened a little bit so everyone can experience SC for 10 minutes.
The fact that there is nothing more to experience, no, that not true. This current showcasing is by design. The constant rebooting too, this allows a new batch of players in. The same reason no more than 12 players are allowed. On the LAN setup. Uhhuh, and this is to become the BDSSE. Yeah, right :doh:
These people deserve to be robbed of their money. If you're that stupid :doh:
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The best part is people defending the lack of features. Since it would be impossible to show all of SC, it's logical that they only opened a little bit so everyone can experience SC for 10 minutes.
The fact that there is nothing more to experience, no, that not true. This current showcasing is by design. The constant rebooting too, this allows a new batch of players in. The same reason no more than 12 players are allowed. On the LAN setup. Uhhuh, and this is to become the BDSSE. Yeah, right :doh:
These people deserve to be robbed of their money. If you're that stupid :doh:
It really is a LOT worse than that, and this stream proves it. Not to mention the fact that, what they had to show of 3.0 was basically Arena Commander on a barren moon.
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https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/900427910363979776
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More hilarious highlights.
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The fanboys are wondering (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6vkr8k/theory_the_gamescom_build_is_actually_a_slightly/) about the build too. All this speculation isn't helping Chris :dance:
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That demo was sad. Many in the YouTube comments aren't swallowing the PR.
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That demo was sad. Many in the YouTube comments aren't swallowing the PR.
It's just the usual die hard zealots and shills. They are beyond saving.
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https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/900470509435056133
Apparently something to do with the fact that the build he is supposed to be showing on Fri, is the SAME build they are streaming now, and that Lando saying stuff was disabled (@ 17:31)* implies that there is another build with enabled things - which is false, since that build doesn't actually run realiably enough. They still haven't finished the branch. Apparently they have TWO branches of the same 3.0, and they spent quite a bit of time on this specific build branch for GC2017, hoping to get a better build for Chris's presentation.
*
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So they strip everything down to something that might be (hopefully is) presentable whilst working their asses off to get a newer release with some extra's added back for Chris to showcase. Yeah, that's a plan. So if that doesn't work, then Chris has nothing to show on Friday. Since he already has nothing to show for, that seems fitting.
My best guess is that this could be the end for SC. If Chris can't show anything new/better on Friday, everybody knows there's just nothing there. No build(s), no pre-stage 3.0, no new tech never done before, just nothing but lies. Oh boy, he's fucked....
Let's find some possible reasons why Chris won't show up on Friday :smuggo:
- he ate something wrong and got foodpoisening
- he got sick with a stomach flu, so can't get on stage
- he got laryngitis, so could get on stage but can't talk
- he had a family emergency so had to fly back immediatly
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So they strip everything down to something that might be (hopefully is) presentable whilst working their asses off to get a newer release with some extra's added back for Chris to showcase. Yeah, that's a plan. So if that doesn't work, then Chris has nothing to show on Friday. Since he already has nothing to show for, that seems fitting.
Yeah, that's it basically. But the alarming thing is that, if true, they again have two builds of the game. One used for live streaming Wed/Thurs and which has stuff disabled, and another that Chris is supposedly showcasing on Friday. Imagine if what Chris shows on Friday, isn't much different from what was seen earlier this week.
Let's find some possible reasons why Chris won't show up on Friday :smuggo:
- he ate something wrong and got foodpoisening
- he got sick with a stomach flu, so can't get on stage
- he got laryngitis, so could get on stage but can't talk
- he had a family emergency so had to fly back immediatly
tbh, I'm not buying it. No way, baring a serious medical emergency, that Chris doesn't show up to do the show. But fucking LOL! if they let his overpaid brother Erin, do it. As he has no experience with public displays of deflection and obfuscation like Chris, if nothing else, it would be absolutely hilarious.
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I read somewhere this evening that Erin is supposed to do a broadcast event tomorrow? Dunno if true though...
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My money is on Chris is adding the finishing touches to Squadron 42 which will be released in a big announcement on Friday.
Due to sync issues last year, the game was ported to the Build (Duke3d) engine.
Runs smooth as butter now and the Mark Hammill and Gary Oldman sprites have some unbelievable facial expressions.
It's essentially feature complete but some placeholder entities have been used, and also it's not technically 3D now, it's 2.5D, but hay what's the real difference between 2.x and 3. They definitely can't tell over on reddit.
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Clearly you don't know anything about game development. If you can't tell the difference in fidelity to start with :cop:
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I read somewhere this evening that Erin is supposed to do a broadcast event tomorrow? Dunno if true though...
I haven't heard any of that. Maybe he will be in on tomorrow's stream.
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My money is on Chris is adding the finishing touches to Squadron 42 which will be released in a big announcement on Friday.
Due to sync issues last year, the game was ported to the Build (Duke3d) engine.
Runs smooth as butter now and the Mark Hammill and Gary Oldman sprites have some unbelievable facial expressions.
It's essentially feature complete but some placeholder entities have been used, and also it's not technically 3D now, it's 2.5D, but hay what's the real difference between 2.x and 3. They definitely can't tell over on reddit.
Dude, stop spreading FUD. :supaburn:
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Dude, stop spreading FUD. :supaburn:
Haha, well I thought it may bring hope to some!
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The best part is people defending the lack of features. Since it would be impossible to show all of SC, it's logical that they only opened a little bit so everyone can experience SC for 10 minutes.
The fact that there is nothing more to experience, no, that not true. This current showcasing is by design. The constant rebooting too, this allows a new batch of players in. The same reason no more than 12 players are allowed. On the LAN setup. Uhhuh, and this is to become the BDSSE. Yeah, right :doh:
These people deserve to be robbed of their money. If you're that stupid :doh:
It really is a LOT worse than that, and this stream proves it. Not to mention the fact that, what they had to show of 3.0 was basically Arena Commander on a barren moon.
Everyone would understand the need to limit the demo to 15min. At GC you have to keep people moving or riot. But they could have gone with a mission for like 3-4 people, REAL 3.0 stuff, instead of a "hf with a few people shooting at nothing on a level done in 24h."
Imagine this:
4 people are grouped (2 desks) after the reset of the game, they start at the mission npc, one picks up a mission and everyone in group gets it. Text:
"Pirates stoles a crate of highly refined adamantium pressed latinum (the GOOD stuff) and you have to get it back. They are hiding out at the nearest moon. Check your map for thel coords. They have defenses so make sure to cover your ship while picking it up. You have to get it back within 15min to get an awesome RL reward. Follow the demo-pathway to the ship"
*some path on the floor to the ship shows up, demo only to speed things up*
2 min quest talk, 1 min to get to ship, 1 min "I fly ! no I fly! you take turret! meh ok... lets go!. 30 sec jump to moon, 30 sec to landing coords.
Then either leave 1 behind and send 3 out to battle the pirate area or man 2 turrets for a safe defense and send 2 out. You have 3 of the bikes in the cargo so both works. If you get the package back to the ship you have to place it in a secure cargo hold (cargo feature) and make your way back to the npc.
If you do it within those 15 min you get a code for 10-20% off if you want to buy into SC or a GC exclusive skin/ sticker to put on side of a ship.
BUT that would mean that they actually had those features...
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BUT that would mean that they actually had those features...
Which they don't. So.
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I tried posting a few things over at the SC reddit pages. They clearly do not believe in the free exchange of ideas. I think they managed to lock me out.
All I wanted to say was that the posters over there SHOULD buy as much Star Citizen as they could, entreat their friends and family to do so as well. That they were exactly the kind of people that Chris Roberts wants supporting his project.
Oh well. I think the lovely souls I chatted with will continue to support the project so all is well with the world.
So Chris Roberts lacks the balls to face the music? He wont bother to show up and have shoes thrown at him? He does not want any more videos of his excuses out there? Amazing. Could there be any clearer message to the backers than this? I think not.
Coward.
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So Chris Roberts lacks the balls to face the music? He wont bother to show up and have shoes thrown at him?
Sometimes this board gets totally delusional in it's fantasies of chaos and doom while at the same time laughing about the (potential) delusions of others. :D Like Derek correctly said: There is no way Chris Roberts will not be on stage come friday unless he is hospitalized. There is also no way he even gets lightly booed unless he comes on stage and says "I consider 2.6.3 the final release - thanks guys!". I'm also still willing to bet they will show a SQ42 trailer of some sort. They have demonstrated the ability to make some cool ship-commercials - they can make a SQ42-Trailer that looks awesome even if their gameplay is nowhere near ready.
A bit more occam's razor would be good. For example: If they were really trying to bullshit backers would a 150+mio company not be able to fake a demo with some gameplay that lasts for 15 minutes? I'd say: they absolutely would. The fact they're showing this jigsaw-puzzle of a demo is more an indication that they are actually trying not to devote too many (read: even more) ressources into a special gamescom-fake-demo to look good but they are actually trying to show the best version of what they actually have. As Derek has stated multiple times (between bursts of polemic statements ;)): there is no malicious conscious effort to scam people here. They are trying. Derek contends they can not do it (to the full extend of their promises).
I agree that Star Citizen will cut down its list of promised features significantly at some point. I don't think the company will completely implode but they will release something that falls significantly short of the stated ambition. The whole theory the company will go belly-up rests on the assumption that they have actually blown through most of their money already. Which is possible but there is no strong evidence to support it (nor is there any evidence they are in tip-top-shape).
Long post short: I wish this board wasn't so mean-spirited and far out and trying more to really analyse the situation in a realistic manner. Derek, even while being snide, makes an effort to really support his arguments by meticulously listing reasons and sources for his prognosis. Let's have more of that. But yeah, some are just here for the lulz I get it.
(edited for typos - probably not all of them ^^)
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A bit more occam's razor would be good. For example: If they were really trying to bullshit backers would a 150+mio company not be able to fake a demo with some gameplay that lasts for 15 minutes? I'd say: they absolutely would. The fact they're showing this jigsaw-puzzle of a demo is more an indication that they are actually trying not to devote too many (read: even more) ressources into a special gamescom-fake-demo to look good but they are actually trying to show the best version of what they actually have. As Derek has stated multiple times (between bursts of polemic statements ;)): there is no malicious conscious effort to scam people here. They are trying.
Yes, I can agree that they are tying, but they are failing to deliver now for years...
About scam...I am sure that CR takes out quite a lot of money from project...who knows maybe up to 20 %...so he is a millionaire now...if he was delivering promised game then its not a problem at least for me, but he is not doing it..
After first Gamecon days, its clear that v3.0 is nowhere near ready, now I doubt even about 2017 December release, maybe only 2018 Q1 is possible now..
Derek maybe is too dramatic and relaying too much on unverified sources, but in general he is right - project has major issues.
I doubt that SC fails in 2017, maybe in 2018, but it depends how whales will rate current v.3.0 progress..if sales are successful then I guess they can survive 2017 and maybe even 2018...
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Long post short: I wish this board wasn't so mean-spirited and far out and trying more to really analyse the situation in a realistic manner.
We're pretty realistic here. Realistically 150 million dollars and 5 years should result in a game being released. It hasn't - and CIG have the cheek to keep selling ships.
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The livestream is going a bit better today. Within the first hour they've glitched right out of the Ursa rover whilst trying to get in the seat. There have been random flames appearing in the air, had the odd desync and managed to send a Nox straight up in the air vertically.
At least they have particle effects today and it hasn't crashed. The streamers are doing a great job considering how little there is to do in the "demo". They even seem to be having fun with the glitches.
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So Chris Roberts lacks the balls to face the music? He wont bother to show up and have shoes thrown at him?
Sometimes this board gets totally delusional
Correct! Your posting is the very first delusional opinion about Scam Citizen. After all the posts from Serendipity of course.
If you actually believe what you wrote, by all means, give your money to Chris. It'll be well spent. On my amusement :woop:
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A bit more occam's razor would be good. For example: If they were really trying to bullshit backers would a 150+mio company not be able to fake a demo with some gameplay that lasts for 15 minutes? I'd say: they absolutely would. The fact they're showing this jigsaw-puzzle of a demo is more an indication that they are actually trying not to devote too many (read: even more) ressources into a special gamescom-fake-demo to look good but they are actually trying to show the best version of what they actually have.
Wot? They've been called out numerous times for creating special R&D bullshit to mislead backers. The biggest was in GamesCom/CitizenCon last year. And there was a major fallout. Why would they do that again?
Also, when you think about it, even this GC2017 presentation is almost the same thing because not only is it NOT the actual full 3.0 game build, but it's also specific parts they claimed to have culled out and restricted (for ludicrous reasons). So unless and until 3.0 is released, and backers are playing what they are currently seeing at GC2017, there is no way of knowing whether or not this wasn't just another specific build they put together for the show.
This* is what I posted on SA yesterday about that.
As Derek has stated multiple times (between bursts of polemic statements ;)):
OK, that made me lol :smuggo:
there is no malicious conscious effort to scam people here. They are trying. Derek contends they can not do it (to the full extend of their promises).
While that may be the case, and I would (in part) concede that point to some extent, it doesn't absolve them of the underlying scam tactics.
If you are telling your investors/client (in this case, backers) that you can do something, and they are funding you to do it, when you know that you can't do it, but you keep giving the impression that you can, even as you keep taking money for it, that's not only a scam, it's also fraud. That's the gist of it.
Aside from the fact that, if during the furtherance of that scam/fraud the people at the top (The Nine) got rich (as they would be, from the money spent), that also make them complicit, regardless of whether or not they were "trying" to make the game. And that's why Unjust Enrichment is the most often used cause of action in suing people who took money and didn't fulfill promises. This is the basis of which lawsuits and jail time are built. Heck, you can go to FTC or PACER right now and see a litany of tried and won cases based on less. Heck, even investors can sue company execs if they spent their money legitimately, but made bad choices that ended in a loss. This is why the SEC mandates disclosures in all investor filings so that if a company puts out projections, and they miss it, investors don't rush to sue them just because they can.
So no, it doesn't matter whether or not they are TRYING. What matters is that they deliver what they promised. So far, it's clear that they can't, and they're lying about it.
I agree that Star Citizen will cut down its list of promised features significantly at some point. I don't think the company will completely implode but they will release something that falls significantly short of the stated ambition. The whole theory the company will go belly-up rests on the assumption that they have actually blown through most of their money already. Which is possible but there is no strong evidence to support it (nor is there any evidence they are in tip-top-shape).
It will. And we will be having a different discussion, right here, when it does.
They will never - EVER - release anything that resembles a "game", let alone anything close to what they promised. You know why? Because for that to happen, they have to go from the current pre-Alpha -> Alpha -> Beta -> Release Candidate -> Release. Go ahead, and tell me with a straight face that you see them going all the way to the end of that road when, six years and $156M later, they're still in pre-Alpha in which not even 15% of what they promised (https://starcitizentracker.github.io/) has been done.
Long post short: I wish this board wasn't so mean-spirited and far out and trying more to really analyse the situation in a realistic manner. Derek, even while being snide, makes an effort to really support his arguments by meticulously listing reasons and sources for his prognosis. Let's have more of that. But yeah, some are just here for the lulz I get it.
LOL!! This is not a safe space. That's over on /r/StarCitizen or Spectrum. :laugh:
But in all seriousness, we're all skeptics here; and most of us just got sick of the bullshit. And in my case, the only skin I have in the game is that after vilifying me incessantly, my only goal now is to nag and expose them until the final end where I am proven 100% (so far I am 99%) that they simply couldn't build the game they promised in 2012, and that they've been engaged in scam tactics in a bid to prolong it via "Fake it til you make it" doctrine.
* Over on SA.. (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3800238&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1881#post475676281)
ManofManyAliases posted:
Calm down, big boy. There is only one build. That build is locked to daymar only on a private server. If they had people playing around and quantum jumping all over the place in the full, unlocked build, no one would see each other in the play-throughs.
You know all about completing something but locking the features, right?
Newsflash. I'm a dev. And yes, I do know all about locking features, only unlocking them for testing etc.
But that's not what we're talking about here. So pay attention....
What we're talking about is a 3.0 build in which 99% of what was promised in the build, isn't being played - like right now. Instead, they have a separate CryEngine level (sphere in a box) with some ships and ground vehicles. Basically, Arena Commander on a barren rock.
If 3.0 is in ANY state to be shown, as they have said repeatedly, why was it necessary to "chop" it up and make a "demo"?
As a dev, only a fucking moron would buy that bullshit about people jumping all over the place when in fact, these past years, the very same game has been shown/played in streams - with "people playing around and quantum jumping all over the place in the full, unlocked build" - and nobody complained because, well guess what Princess, that's how large games, especially MMO games, are.
That aside from the fact that they bothered to put spawn points on Daymar. Why would they need to do that, when they could very well have left the PU intact, but just have QT from Olisar to Daymar (not even the other two planetoids)?
And as they have been touting these moons, the size, scope etc, why now would those very same features be a hindrance?
(https://imgur.com/AMoRQyz.gif)
The current 2.6.3 build is more feature rich than this "3.0 demo". And the former isn't even being played at the show. It's almost as if it doesn't exist anymore, or that they're embarrassed to show/play it live.
So what's left to be seen is how much different Chris's presentation build will be on Friday. In the meantime, tomorrow Thurs, we look forward to more ganky shit.
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The livestream is going a bit better today. Within the first hour they've glitched right out of the Ursa rover whilst trying to get in the seat. There have been random flames appearing in the air, had the odd desync and managed to send a Nox straight up in the air vertically.
At least they have particle effects today and it hasn't crashed. The streamers are doing a great job considering how little there is to do in the "demo". They even seem to be having fun with the glitches.
Yeah, I've been watching, and will be doing my write-up later this morning when it ends.
It's amazing to me that they're actually showing demos of a space combat game, with no space combat. They key take away from this stream, and hopefully Friday's presentation, is that 3.0 isn't anywhere near ready for release to backers, regardless of the state. And this was the 3.0 that was supposedly coming in on|before Dec 19th, 2016. I remember back when I said it didn't exist, and that Chris was blatantly lying. :smugjones:
With sources telling me that it needs another 6+ months of work for it to be released outside of a dev environment and to backers, the only thing we have to do now is to see if they release it by year end, what form, and if they end up removing more things from it. If they pull the same stunt they did with 2.0, there's going to be even more of an uproar. So far, some backers either haven't noticed, or don't care that in the 08/11 schedule update, they added even more stuff to 3.0, which is guaranteed to delay it even further. And they will use those additions as a way to justify the delays.
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But you predicted 30 - 45 days tops, so there won't be anything left by year end?
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But you predicted 30 - 45 days tops, so there won't be anything left by year end?
Are we talking about the 30 - 45 days from 2015, or something else? I'm confused. Got an excerpt for context? :shrug:
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https://www.twitch.tv/gamestarde (https://www.twitch.tv/gamestarde)
REMINDER: Chris Roberts will give an interview today at 3:30PM / 15:30 local time(in 45 minutes) at GamestarDE Twitch stream. The Interview is in english with german translation.
**STARTING RIGHT NOW***
TOTALLY CALLED IT!!
Chris interviewed by Gamestar.de. He just confirmed what I stated months back. SQ42 is NOT being shown at GamesCom. Which means, now that we're in Aug, there is no way in hell it is getting released in 2017.
Watch the whole interview (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/169412267?t=47m32s). Starts at 47:32. And someone made a transcript (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6vqvpq/cr_interview_live_summary/).
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAx5BTvXgAQw1Ja.jpg)
Yeah, I called this one back on May 26, 2017 (http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/5276/)
SQUADRON 42 DELAYED TO 2018
As I reported* on Twitter earlier today, several sources, as they have done twice before in 2015 and 2016, have once again informed me that SQ42 is now a 2018 game. In fact, the current internal schedule shows it stretching all the way to mid-2018, and possibly beyond. The past two times that I had reported this, some people didn’t believe it. And CIG kept denying it. This Sept 2016 denial was my favorite. Both 2015 and 2016 came and went. Right up to the blatant lies that CIG told during the events (GamesCom and CitizenCon) of Q4/2016. I wrote extensively about that in my Shattered Dreams blog from Oct 2016.
Sources also tell me that they’re frantically trying to either get a preview or trailer out before the end of the year. So yeah, probably a repeat of Q4/2016 all over again.
Oh, and they have definitely chopped up the SQ42 game. I reported on this back in 2016 as well, but they have apparently stuck to the goal of releasing the once full game, into bits and pieces in order to “keep things going and raising money”. It makes perfect sense if you ask me. They know that the minute they release any “final” version of any portion of this train-wreck project, that’s it’s all over. So why not maintain the bait and switch Status Quo by splitting a full game into parts, then sell them separately? If you recall, they did that back in 2016 when they split SQ42 from Star Citizen, in order to sell it separately. Except this time, they’re going to split SQ42 even further. Which, now that I think about it, explains why you can buy that game for $15 (instead of $45) if you buy it as a bundle ($45 + $15) with Star Citizen. My God man! We’re doing it all wrong.
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/868192690554458113
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But you predicted 30 - 45 days tops, so there won't be anything left by year end?
Are we talking about the 30 - 45 days from 2015, or something else? I'm confused. Got an excerpt for context? :shrug:
You tweeted it August 21: http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=76.15 halfway through the page. About no more refunds.
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Somebody made a summary of the interview from Gamestar with Chris Roberts (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6vr0nx/summary_of_the_interview_from_gamestar_with_chris/)
- no Squadron 42 at Gamescom, need more polish.
- they need still some time, but it will be worth it
- PG Planets will be in SQ42
- He is very proud about Planets/Moons/Asteroids
- They are very focused on not just having planets, but also having meaningful things on them (flora/fauna/buildings/mission etc.)
- This will also a huge step up for the exploration part
- SQ42 character locomotion still needs work. They captured over 100 days the motion from many actors and implementing them and blending them into other animations need time.
- They can already play some missions from start to end.
- every mission is in production and they are progressing fast
- Another blocker is the AI. Get the daily schedule for every crew member working is a huge undertaking.
- All missions in SC and SQ42 are now completely using the subsumption system. That wasn't the case some time ago, but they now made the full switch.
- Gamescom demo will be "pretty cool" - C.R.
- On the question if someone is stopping him from adding more features: That day is when the game dies. It will always be developed and they aren't aiming for a concrete release date. You can
buy the game now and play it and that will be always this way. But of course, he wants to get to a point where all basic functions are in and a game-loop is working fine and most people are
happy with it.
- Again: "Tomorrow we will show some very cool things that you might really like
And after this, people still think this is going to happen? :vince:
The number of people that now are saying that it makes sense, 'cause GC is for SC and CC is for SQ42, is alarming. Do they actually believe that in 2 months they will be able to show progress on SQ42? :doh:
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But you predicted 30 - 45 days tops, so there won't be anything left by year end?
Are we talking about the 30 - 45 days from 2015, or something else? I'm confused. Got an excerpt for context? :shrug:
You tweeted it August 21: http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=76.15 halfway through the page. About no more refunds.
I don't see any Tweet in that link. Can you post the link to the actual Tweet, so I know what you're talking about?
UPDATE:
Are you talking about this one? That's about refunds. And I'm not sure what that has to do with what you mention above. :shrug:
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/899657698198921217
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I did assume from that tweet that the refunds would fall dry 'cause of lack of money, so that you gave CIG no more then 30-45 days remaining. If that wasn't what you had in mind, why would refunding stop within the next 30-45 days?
Oh, the GC rig specs. Sure, who doesn't have that config?
(http://i.imgur.com/iQ8wwNR.jpg)
And the Q&A with Erin (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6vqmw7/erin_roberts_qa_overview/)
3.0's player count will be at least "what we have now" (I assume he means 24 and not 12 like in the current 3.0 demo)
There will be a 12km station in SQ42. It's going to have an important role in the story. I think it's already been made.
When asked about the 600i they all laughed and looked at each other, then skipped over the question. Looks like that's going to be announced tomorrow.
The ships team has been making ships like mad. It seemed like he was hinting that the 600i + some others will be in 3.0. That seems to tie in with this: New ships Instagram teaser
Mining will not be in 3.0, but will be the next feature in the game after cargo.
Proper persistence will be in 3.0. Where you logout is where you will spawn back in.
You can set your respawn point. I imagine you go to the location and then it will be an option when talking to an NPC or something so you can't just teleport across the system.
Complete network rework for 3.0. They're in the process of converting the gameplay systems over to make it all work.
Seems like 2.6.3 had a memory leak which made the server performance degrade over time.
You can 'link' quantum drive in 3.0, meaning that you can quantum travel with your friends.
The more expensive the ship, the longer wait time for insurance
You can buy ships in 3.0 (Not 3.0, but possibly 3.1) with aUEC.
They working on min of 30 server ticks for 3.0 (/u/STARMEDIC_HQ)
When asked about solo-piloting an Idris, Erin replied "Of course you can fly an Idris by your own, but you cannot fully operate it by your own. The Idris is therefore made for groups. Also it
would be good to perform drills with your group to be effective in live action." (/u/fr4nticstar)
And people actually believe all that :doh:
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Further to Derek's reply to your post.
There is also no way he even gets lightly booed unless he comes on stage
I used to heckle allsorts of people at allsorts of events - when they deserved it or there was an opportunity to add some humour. I don't think you can be so sure there isn't going to be someone that will boo him or say something and they wouldn't have to be doing it for comedic effect, even if you could make an assumption that the type of Backer attending won't do so by virtue of their introvertedness, politeness or their blind faith in this project.
I'm also still willing to bet they will show a SQ42 trailer of some sort. They have demonstrated the ability to make some cool ship-commercials - they can make a SQ42-Trailer that looks awesome even if their gameplay is nowhere near ready.
How about we agree you give $50 to a charity of Derek's choosing and he and the rest of us skeptics posting here gives $500 if you you are right. They are great odds aren't they ? You up for it ?
If they were really trying to bullshit backers
They are already up to their necks in bullshit from verifiable indisputable lies that they have told over several years.
You seem to want to ignore actual lies and rely on the fact that they have not lied about everything they are doing" Honesty doesnt work like that does it ? We can forgive a few transgressions because we are all only human right ?. but really ?
At what point does CR become unprofessional and incapable in your eyes ? At what point would you walk away to keep your professional integrity intact if your boss asked you to lie in the way Disco and many other staff are being asked to lie to cover up the shitshow ?
The whole theory the company will go belly-up rests on the assumption that they have actually blown through most of their money already. Which is possible but there is no strong evidence to support it
We do of course have a lot of historical evidence .
If I was to claim I was going to make an aeroplane that could carry 1,000 passengers at less cost per passenger than any other aeroplane and do any journey in 50% of the time it currently takes on the fastest commercial passenger aeroplane that exists today...there would be STRONG EVIDENCE available that I was not going to be able to do that wouldn't there ? If I kept running air shows where I consistently demonstrated I was no where near being able to deliver on those claims ...that would be STRONG EVIDENCE I was bullshitting would'nt it ?
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Some of the posters on reddit have already blown past the still-in-progress Gamescon and are all about "that'll be shown at CitizenCon!".
Very 1984. They've achieved Party nirvana. They seamlessly toss things down the memory hole themselves, no need for Minitrue.
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DAY 1 (http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=76.msg2919#msg2919)
DAY 2 (http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=76.msg2957#msg2957)
Well GC2017 Day 3 was a bust. Nothing new because it's the same disaster on repeat. Every 10 mins.
What has been shown at Gamescom is just tragic - it's empty, pointless and irrelevant. Yeah, sure - it looks pretty, but it doesn't have a 10th of what was shown at Gamescom 2016 and that was supposed to be out in December. Instead it's a poor planetside 1 clone with glitches all over the place, no actual gameplay features, and appears to be just a single Cry engine map.
Very very disappointing. When CR gets to the stage with his pre-rendered video on Friday, just like last year, are those of us who backed the game supposed to believe that we'll ever get any of that based on what was shown today?
---
It is literally two types of ship, a rover and motorbike on the surface of a barren moon with 2 hand placed "outposts" which are non-interactive. You can pew pew, take off, head upwards, but not actually leave the gravitational effect of the moon so you just go back down again. You can't travel anywhere else, there's no cargo/inventory/mobiglass and even if you point towards the moon at full thrust from high up, you'll likely bounce. Some of the doors don't work on the ships, there's no multi-crew capability, and glitches/physics issues abound - you're likely to end up kicked out of the ship if you go to high.
And the whole thing is reset every 15 mins.
That is literally it.
Clip highlights:
https://clips.twitch.tv/SmoggyFilthyNoodleKeepo <-- notice the different ToD between streamers :laugh:
https://clips.twitch.tv/SeductiveFantasticSoybeanDoggo
https://clips.twitch.tv/ModernKitschyHerringPicoMause
https://clips.twitch.tv/BoredSteamyHerringDoritosChip
https://clips.twitch.tv/EndearingLazyTroutTBTacoRight
https://clips.twitch.tv/ObeseRefinedAniseFloof
Bugs highlights
- Server and client crashes
- Animations allow players to clip through vehicles
- Ships and vehicles keep vibrating while landed
- Issues getting into ships and/or the ship killing someone
- Vehicles and ships can clip through the ground or bounce into the air
- Lots of desync despite a powerful server right next to them
- Still really annoying jump-cuts between animations
- Characters T-posing on top of vehicles/ships
- Changing perspective while piloting results in the player having no helmet and a messed up face
- Power management doesn't seem to have a clear effect
- Players were having constant issues with item 2.0 / interaction system. It was often unclear where you could interact with something or it just wouldn't work.
- No sign of turret improvements, from what i could tell there wasn't even a lead indicator and no gyroscope either.
- Oxygen loss doesn't appear to kill you at the moment.
- Altimeters seem to be broken, they were in orbit and it read -100
- Landing gear doesn't report correct status on HUD
- Contrails seem to only work for some ships
- Time of day seems to be different between players standing next to each other - should be server authoritative https://clips.twitch.tv/SmoggyFilthyNoodleKeepo (https://clips.twitch.tv/SmoggyFilthyNoodleKeepo)
- Falling appears to be a set speed, no acceleration to terminal velocity
- Falling characters don't seem to get locked to a ships physics grid
- Ships physics grids still end up grabbing other ships and bits of debris in the environment
- Gravity seems to only affect character models, not ships, they can hang in the air while powered down
- Some guns bug out and can't be reloaded
- Characters with guns out and shooting appear to be standing idle to other players.
- Some players are occasionally invisible to other players.
- Gunfire effects seem missing for same/other players
- Ship survives boosting into the planets surface from space at high speed with no damage
- Vehicles that aren't supposed to be able to survive re-entry can land with no ill effects
- Some terrain puts vehicles into uncontrollable horizontal spins
- Doors still don't work sometimes
That's just the stuff that isn't turned off because it was too buggy, like Quantum Travel, MobiGlas, NPCs, Missions, Cargo, etc.
The netcode is the best though, even with a dedicated line, a powerful server right next to them, players are desyncing, appearing as invisible, or not synchronising animations on other players screens - something is just fundamentally fucked there.
The highlight of Day 3 actually didn't happen on their stream, it happened over at the GameStar.de interview as I wrote over here (http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=76.msg3014#msg3014):
Chris interviewed by Gamestar.de. He just confirmed what I stated months back. SQ42 is NOT being shown at GamesCom. Which means, now that we're in Aug, there is no way in hell it is getting released in 2017.
Watch the whole interview (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/169412267?t=47m32s). Starts at 47:32. And someone made a transcript (https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6vqvpq/cr_interview_live_summary/).
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAx5BTvXgAQw1Ja.jpg)
Yeah, I called this one back on May 26, 2017 (http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/5276/)
SQUADRON 42 DELAYED TO 2018
As I reported* on Twitter earlier today, several sources, as they have done twice before in 2015 and 2016, have once again informed me that SQ42 is now a 2018 game. In fact, the current internal schedule shows it stretching all the way to mid-2018, and possibly beyond. The past two times that I had reported this, some people didn’t believe it. And CIG kept denying it. This Sept 2016 denial was my favorite. Both 2015 and 2016 came and went. Right up to the blatant lies that CIG told during the events (GamesCom and CitizenCon) of Q4/2016. I wrote extensively about that in my Shattered Dreams blog from Oct 2016.
Sources also tell me that they’re frantically trying to either get a preview or trailer out before the end of the year. So yeah, probably a repeat of Q4/2016 all over again.
Oh, and they have definitely chopped up the SQ42 game. I reported on this back in 2016 as well, but they have apparently stuck to the goal of releasing the once full game, into bits and pieces in order to “keep things going and raising money”. It makes perfect sense if you ask me. They know that the minute they release any “final” version of any portion of this train-wreck project, that’s it’s all over. So why not maintain the bait and switch Status Quo by splitting a full game into parts, then sell them separately? If you recall, they did that back in 2016 when they split SQ42 from Star Citizen, in order to sell it separately. Except this time, they’re going to split SQ42 even further. Which, now that I think about it, explains why you can buy that game for $15 (instead of $45) if you buy it as a bundle ($45 + $15) with Star Citizen. My God man! We’re doing it all wrong.
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/868192690554458113
UPDATE: At some point in the interview, he was asked if there is someone stopping him. His response is eye-opening (https://clips.twitch.tv/AmusedCloudyPoultryWutFace). He basically compares Star Citizen - an UNFINISHED game - to the likes of Eve, which released a game, THEN built on it over the years.
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Yeah, they set up this expectation of being at GamesCom every year and now they're being sunk by it. Now they're forced to show off this hot garbage that's been in development for 5 years with a demo that doesn't show anything interesting at all.
Honestly, what is there of significance in this demo that wouldn't have been in the same kind of demo 2-3 years ago? The content is a couple ships and ground vehicles and you can fly around and shoot at each other on a moon with nothing of interest. No game mechanics, no space travel, no hints of professions or cargo or inventory management or copiloting or persistence of any kind. All wrapped up in a nice package of bugs. It should be a fucking embarrassment to be manning that booth at the moment.
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Swimming in space :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75RnFnMlBpQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75RnFnMlBpQ)
Random :airquote: moon (https://i.redd.it/9eqih86pnqhz.jpg)
(http://i67.tinypic.com/sfxule.jpg)
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Yeah, they set up this expectation of being at GamesCom every year and now they're being sunk by it. Now they're forced to show off this hot garbage that's been in development for 5 years with a demo that doesn't show anything interesting at all.
Honestly, what is there of significance in this demo that wouldn't have been in the same kind of demo 2-3 years ago? The content is a couple ships and ground vehicles and you can fly around and shoot at each other on a moon with nothing of interest. No game mechanics, no space travel, no hints of professions or cargo or inventory management or copiloting or persistence of any kind. All wrapped up in a nice package of bugs. It should be a fucking embarrassment to be manning that booth at the moment.
Yep.
But just like a religion ...when the penny drops for someone , there are others lining up to take their place ..and the faithful keep putting money in the collection box each Sunday.
Chris doesn't look like he is about to run out of $$ but he has a psychopathic approach to all the lies he has told in the past.
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BUT that would mean that they actually had those features...
Which they don't. So.
So... it is wierd, sad, or at this point I don't know wtf it is. They were working on those features for what? A year now? And they cant even do a 15min mission close to something I mentioned.
After all those 2 week delays I was hoping they were joking and would pull a rabbit out of their hat but nope, they were just able to make a rather boring (given they have 100s of code monkeys and artists) scene playable for a few mins.
I don't expect them to release the whole thing but come on, that year had to create something...you know? Anything... how a timed sandworm?
Or in the least a stable demo. Imagine you are at GC, see the SC booth and say to your friends, "let's check that one out" then you play the demo, you glitch when entering the ship, your ground vehicle flys off to nowhere, and you see some stuff that shouldn't be there. What would you think? "Yep they really pushed the limits of current game coding" or "Those are the 150mio guys? How the eff did they get that money with that shitty demo?"
I would really like to see the game succeed but with that kind of a demo they shoot them selfes in the foot (or whats the saying?).
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I think I have seen games where people get in cars and drive around a sandbox. They can even get in aircraft and motorcycles and fly around. What is special about this slice of 3.0 that is if it is 3.0, it's probably not the actual game but some created little world to use the assets.
On the high end GTA5 can do this, on the older end Just cause 2 or Crackdown would suffice to do the same things. Oh but it has fidelity, immersion. How does he know? Has he been on other planets? Flown space craft? It's just silly. Then if you read what Eurogamer actually said, basically that it's a demo and it could possibly get released by year end (wishful thinking or repeating exactly what they are told), but as time passes that's not likely because of scope creep. They even acknowledge the problems.
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Wot? They've been called out numerous times for creating special R&D bullshit to mislead backers. The biggest was in GamesCom/CitizenCon last year. And there was a major fallout. Why would they do that again?
I'm not saying they have made highly inaccurate statements. But if they were trying to maliciously scam people I find it hard to believe they'd do such a bad job with all the money they have at their disposal.
Also, when you think about it, even this GC2017 presentation is almost the same thing because not only is it NOT the actual full 3.0 game build, but it's also specific parts they claimed to have culled out and restricted (for ludicrous reasons). So unless and until 3.0 is released, and backers are playing what they are currently seeing at GC2017, there is no way of knowing whether or not this wasn't just another specific build they put together for the show.
This* is what I posted on SA yesterday about that.
While that may be the case, and I would (in part) concede that point to some extent, it doesn't absolve them of the underlying scam tactics.
If you are telling your investors/client (in this case, backers) that you can do something, and they are funding you to do it, when you know that you can't do it, but you keep giving the impression that you can, even as you keep taking money for it, that's not only a scam, it's also fraud. That's the gist of it.
I would agree but this rests on the premise that they actually DO know they can't do it and/or were at least aware that the statements they made were false and made for ulterior motives. I'd agree that given the number of times they have made assessments that were (in hindsight) ludicrous it appears likely that they were making at least some of these statements in bad faith. But proven it is not.
So no, it doesn't matter whether or not they are TRYING. What matters is that they deliver what they promised. So far, it's clear that they can't, and they're lying about it.
Again: What you described is what may happen if the scenario plays out as you described.
They will never - EVER - release anything that resembles a "game", let alone anything close to what they promised. You know why? Because for that to happen, they have to go from the current pre-Alpha -> Alpha -> Beta -> Release Candidate -> Release. Go ahead, and tell me with a straight face that you see them going all the way to the end of that road when, six years and $156M later, they're still in pre-Alpha in which not even 15% of what they promised (https://starcitizentracker.github.io/) has been done.
You know game development. Games start with ambitious goals all the time and then get cut down to something mundane because R&D does not yield the necessary results. My expectation is that SC will do just that - they are just unusually (unreasonably?) stubborn to cut off these limbs. At one point they will drop the 100 Star Systems, boarding of ships etc etc. Is it really impossible that instead of imploding and never releasing anything they will (in the end) release "just another space-sim"? That would be my prognosis. Also: SQ42 might come out once they raise the white flag on the crazyness of the MMO. It appears they want to integrate SQ42 into the PU now as some sort of Main-Campaign of the MMO and therefore obviously all the stuff that does not work in the MMO keeps delaying SQ42.
LOL!! This is not a safe space. That's over on /r/StarCitizen or Spectrum. :laugh:
You're mistaking me for a SC-fan. I don't want a safe space. I just find the schadenfreude here annoying because it makes me rolleyes so hard when I see somebody simply reveling in any sign of failure. There is some highly interesting discussion here and the way that statements and data that holds CIG accountable is gathered here is unique and very important. And it just gets underminded by the trolling - IMO.
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I used to heckle allsorts of people at allsorts of events - when they deserved it or there was an opportunity to add some humour.
This is intellectually dishonest. Certainly we weren't talking about single individuals heckling Chris for comedic effect but a significant portion of the backers present at the event booing him. And that I find highly unlikely given the unbroken enthusiasm of these people.
How about we agree you give $50 to a charity of Derek's choosing and he and the rest of us skeptics posting here gives $500 if you you are right. They are great odds aren't they ? You up for it ?
Yawn.
But at aside from this - if the latest reports are to be believed you will be proven correct on that one. I can't fathom how they'd not show at least some kind of target-render. That borders on self-sabotage. But I am willing to eat crow on feeling so sure if they indeed show nothing at all tonight.
They are already up to their necks in bullshit from verifiable indisputable lies that they have told over several years.
You seem to want to ignore actual lies and rely on the fact that they have not lied about everything they are doing" Honesty doesnt work like that does it ? We can forgive a few transgressions because we are all only human right ?. but really ?
You are creating a narrative from your interpretation of my text and it is off. What I said (or meant to say - could be I communicated poorly): If their intent was to actually scam people they would do a better job of it. It may turn out that effectively they did scam people but I question the proof for intent. Not in regard to individual statements - I agree that something like "3.0 will be out by the end of the year" is at the very least an indication that they purposefully make statements they must know to be wrong - but overall. As in: They are trying to make the game as promised and in good faith but they resort to lies to keep the necessary funds coming in.
At what point does CR become unprofessional and incapable in your eyes ? At what point would you walk away to keep your professional integrity intact if your boss asked you to lie in the way Disco and many other staff are being asked to lie to cover up the shitshow ?
See above: I find that believable because it also supplys them with an internal rationale that they are not bad people when they do lie - they just do what is necessary to make the game and in the end everybody will win (because they truly believe they will deliver it (which may be delusional but working on something like this for years and with the stakes for them - delusionally optimistic perspectives would not be surprising)).
We do of course have a lot of historical evidence .
Nothing you wrote is evidence. At best it is circumstantial evidence and nowhere near to indict with any certainty. Again: I am not disputing that the facts give reason to concern. But many statements on this board in regards to malicious intent / the fate of the company / the state SC is in internally are phrased as if these inferences were absolutely certain. And I just wish the discussion would be more honest in this regard.
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You know game development. Games start with ambitious goals all the time and then get cut down to something mundane because R&D does not yield the necessary results. My expectation is that SC will do just that - they are just unusually (unreasonably?) stubborn to cut off these limbs. At one point they will drop the 100 Star Systems, boarding of ships etc etc. Is it really impossible that instead of imploding and never releasing anything they will (in the end) release "just another space-sim"? That would be my prognosis. Also: SQ42 might come out once they raise the white flag on the crazyness of the MMO. It appears they want to integrate SQ42 into the PU now as some sort of Main-Campaign of the MMO and therefore obviously all the stuff that does not work in the MMO keeps delaying SQ42.
Here's the thing, he promised to do all those things for 65m and now they have given him more than the double amount. And then it OK to scale down? And that'll go well, you think?
I ask for people's money to build them a vehicle that is a car, a truck, a boat, a submarine, a helicopter and an airplane into one. Finally, I deliver..... a car. Doesn't matter what kind, it's only a car. And then all investors would go Hmmm, not what I paid for and had in mind and definately not what I was promised but what the heck, it'll do. You really think that? Of course that's not gonna fly.
Chris is doing damage control already. He's is trying to convince the backers that the MVP is near and that everything he promised will be added on during the lifespan of the game. So basically, the 150m is used to create this piece of crap and if they want to see it finished, buy more JPEGS. The man is utterly lost. And so is Scam Citizen.
This clip says it all (https://clips.twitch.tv/CarelessGleamingNuggetsCeilingCat)
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I don't know if you have ever been impaneled in a jury. You get presented with arguments from both sides who paint very different pictures from the same circumstance and you have to decide either based on the preponderance of the evidence or beyond a reasonable doubt depending on the type of case.
This will be a mess, I'm tired and you will just have to deal with the rambling jumble of ideas.
Now we have heard all the stories coming from Roberts over the years and if we are here most of us are former backers who have requested refunds and left the project and with that we have weighed Roberts statements, CIG videos, what is actually released, the sliding scale meaning all the wild promises Roberts made and then all the incredible scope creep Roberts piles onto the project making delivery harder and less likely at every turn, this balanced against the reversing slope where now Squadron 42 will have a couple of chapters each being a few of another of Robert's games missions (a far cry from the original scope).
They are going from the original 100 systems to 5-10 (but backers claim there will be more content when they have no way to know this and all behavior indicates that the content will be further reduced not increased), weighing in against what we had seen and what apparently has been leaked or discovered regarding the games development, game creation in general, human nature, life experience dealing with people.
When we look at all of the information we see what may have been a terrific idea and dream that began with all good intentions (if we want to be generous) but it has fallen apart and we believe is teetering on financial instability. Why did it get here? Indisputably the choice to use Cryengine and patch it repeatedly for each added level and function has created a huge mess and this one decision more than anything has wasted countless millions of dollars. Now as incompetent as I believe Roberts actually is at managing large projects (see this and read it all to gain the background, http://gameranx.com/updates/id/70033/article/the-chris-roberts-theory-of-everything/ ) he had to have known how badly this has affected the projects schedule and budget and you can view it as fraud if he knew it was not working and continued to make statements which backers relied upon to take their money. That would be a type of fraud and clearly would be unethical.
Add in the fact that Roberts and Ortwin were involved with some shady characters one of which went to prison for their movie making and funding ventures and financial shenanigans where they were the only people who made money and countless million of investors money got transferred to shell corporations and then to the principal architects of this venture, that would be Roberts, Ortwin and 2 other dudes who all work on this project. Now with a background for dirty dealings that screwed people of MANY millions, Total funding was 700 Million, would you trust these same people to make statements you could rely upon and would you trust them to build the game? If you look here you will learn about it, http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=34.15
Add in the way they changed the TOS so that backers are in the dark and cannot know what is really going on ion the company. The original TOS allowed backers to see if Roberts missed the delivery by 12 months, then he gave himself another 18 months and he missed that, then he changed the TOS a third time to remove backers ability to learn just where they stood and take away their rights to a refund. Luckily with the help of a California AG refunds have started again but only after the threat of legal action.
Add in the two loans that they claim they did not need, but took anyway, it starts to look bad. Does the circumstantial evidence begin to pile up in one corner and begin to taint the character of Roberts? We have not even gotten into detail, have not gotten into the lies that 3.0 was ready last year but needed polish when we now know he had not begun yet. Lies on top of lies. Just tonight he made statements in interviews that directly contradict the lies he told last year. The problem with being a habitual liar is that it eventually becomes so difficult to remember what lies you told to whom.
But you know what, over here and on the SC refund reddit page, we watch everything he does and says publicly and amass the evidence. You can think this is just mean spirited and you are chasing a White Whale literally and figuratively but somebody has to doo it. One day it will all collapse and backers will be shocked, but we will have been waiting. Hopefully the Attorney Generals will be able to use the documentation and put it to good use but in the meanwhile if we can manage to show some poor backer who is ambivalent about the project the entirety of the scam (as it has become) and they get their money back before losing it, we have done well.
In the meanwhile please look around I promise you that Derek Smart has been right about this situation the vast majority of times. The funny thing is that I had no idea of who DS was a year or so ago. I made some suggestions on the SC forums and was met with the typical hostility that has earned the community the crappy reputation it has. One off the asshats called me Derek Smart. Smart I had no idea what this fool was saying I looked up the name and found tons of information on the ongoing feud. Eventually with the help of the SC refunds reddit board I got my $515 back. yeah I was a fool who got wrapped up in this mess. I'm so happy to be free of it since I stopped playing the game, I found it SO fucking boring, get out of bed, do the same 3 missions, save my rep at Korea or wake up at backstabber central waste dump. Or survival mode in space ships, oh or a really shitty FPS module. He couldn't even do that well. Shattered Horizons did a better job of space combat 8 years ago. It was limited in video definition and scope because at the time only the best PC's could play it at medium display settings. I had an I7 970x so it ran well. In any case we have looked at lots of what you believe is circumstantial but in its entirety it pretty much paints a really ugly picture of this project, its future, its creator.
Please keep an open mind but also realize that you can never get anybody here to ever say "Hey that Chris Roberts is a swell fellow, his game is nifty, has great physics and novel concepts, it's reasonably priced and his marketing has been both forthright and honest. This is clearly the most transparent gaming company ever, I'm so glad we don't have to deal with any of those mean efficient publishers because CIG has done so much with so little."
Yeah there could be a perfectly innocent explanation for this or that, but there is no way they can explain away this pile of evidence. Sorry for being long winded, repetitive and not particularly clear. All this stuff becomes a blur and you have a hard time remembering where you saw this or got the link for that. I do see that Roberts has hired companies to put out tons of positive SC stories so the good stuff gets buried. It wont matter.
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I'm not saying they have made highly inaccurate statements. But if they were trying to maliciously scam people I find it hard to believe they'd do such a bad job with all the money they have at their disposal.
I agree - I don't think it's an intentional scam. CIG are just incompetent and unable to make a game. It's the marketing drives to constantly attract new backers based on false promises which is dishonest.
Strictly speaking - to label it as fraud or a scam will be a decision after the event (release of the game or collapse) - doesn't stop us having our own views on the matter though.
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People gonna be mad when they see how much croberts and his friends/family have siphoned out of the project over the years. He better hope he has disguised it all very carefully because when the shit hits the fan and the financials have to be disclosed in court people are going to be going over it with a fine tooth comb. Wouldn't be surprised even to learn as much as 20m from the project fund has been used to unjustly enrich croberts and his cronies.
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People gonna be mad when they see how much croberts and his friends/family have siphoned out of the project over the years. He better hope he has disguised it all very carefully because when the shit hits the fan and the financials have to be disclosed in court people are going to be going over it with a fine tooth comb. Wouldn't be surprised even to learn as much as 20m from the project fund has been used to unjustly enrich croberts and his cronies.
Based on their filed company accounts we know for a fact Derek and Sandi have a base salary of £1.5 million each and that's just from one studio, Foundry 42 in the UK!! They could be paying themselves that again from each other of the 4 studios making a combined annual base salary of £12million ($15 million USD). So from the 5 years so far they could have taken $75million and that wouldn't even legally be considered illegitimate!! It just gets written off as staff salaries in the costs.
God knows where the actual embezzlement starts, if they're intelligent they'll be hiding some of the cash inflows and not reporting them on the income tracker, putting it into a "tax account" which they hide come end of year. Maybe the loan from Coutts is tied up in that scheme, since Coutts is also their personal wealth bank.
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Based on their filed company accounts we know for a fact Derek and Sandi have a base salary of £1.5 million each
Derek and Sandi :cop:
If I had Twitter, that would be the Tweet of the century :D
I do see a movie there though: When Derek met Sandi :lol:
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You know game development. Games start with ambitious goals all the time and then get cut down to something mundane because R&D does not yield the necessary results. My expectation is that SC will do just that - they are just unusually (unreasonably?) stubborn to cut off these limbs. At one point they will drop the 100 Star Systems, boarding of ships etc etc. Is it really impossible that instead of imploding and never releasing anything they will (in the end) release "just another space-sim"? That would be my prognosis. Also: SQ42 might come out once they raise the white flag on the crazyness of the MMO. It appears they want to integrate SQ42 into the PU now as some sort of Main-Campaign of the MMO and therefore obviously all the stuff that does not work in the MMO keeps delaying SQ42.
You just made my point. At any moment in which they fail to deliver what was promised, they're in trouble.
LOL!! This is not a safe space. That's over on /r/StarCitizen or Spectrum. :laugh:
You're mistaking me for a SC-fan. I don't want a safe space. I just find the schadenfreude here annoying because it makes me rolleyes so hard when I see somebody simply reveling in any sign of failure. There is some highly interesting discussion here and the way that statements and data that holds CIG accountable is gathered here is unique and very important. And it just gets underminded by the trolling - IMO.
Oh I wasn't referring to you wanting a safe space. I was just saying that this isn't a safe space, and we welcome all types of meaningful discussions, pro, neutral, or con, it doesn't matter. As long as it's respectful and doesn't give rise to meaningless trolling (see Serendipity)
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I don't know if you have ever been impaneled in a jury. You get presented with arguments from both sides who paint very different pictures from the same circumstance and you have to decide either based on the preponderance of the evidence or beyond a reasonable doubt depending on the type of case.
This will be a mess, I'm tired and you will just have to deal with the rambling jumble of ideas.
Now we have heard all the stories coming from Roberts over the years and if we are here most of us are former backers who have requested refunds and left the project and with that we have weighed Roberts statements, CIG videos, what is actually released, the sliding scale meaning all the wild promises Roberts made and then all the incredible scope creep Roberts piles onto the project making delivery harder and less likely at every turn, this balanced against the reversing slope where now Squadron 42 will have a couple of chapters each being a few of another of Robert's games missions (a far cry from the original scope).
They are going from the original 100 systems to 5-10 (but backers claim there will be more content when they have no way to know this and all behavior indicates that the content will be further reduced not increased), weighing in against what we had seen and what apparently has been leaked or discovered regarding the games development, game creation in general, human nature, life experience dealing with people.
When we look at all of the information we see what may have been a terrific idea and dream that began with all good intentions (if we want to be generous) but it has fallen apart and we believe is teetering on financial instability. Why did it get here? Indisputably the choice to use Cryengine and patch it repeatedly for each added level and function has created a huge mess and this one decision more than anything has wasted countless millions of dollars. Now as incompetent as I believe Roberts actually is at managing large projects (see this and read it all to gain the background, http://gameranx.com/updates/id/70033/article/the-chris-roberts-theory-of-everything/ ) he had to have known how badly this has affected the projects schedule and budget and you can view it as fraud if he knew it was not working and continued to make statements which backers relied upon to take their money. That would be a type of fraud and clearly would be unethical.
Add in the fact that Roberts and Ortwin were involved with some shady characters one of which went to prison for their movie making and funding ventures and financial shenanigans where they were the only people who made money and countless million of investors money got transferred to shell corporations and then to the principal architects of this venture, that would be Roberts, Ortwin and 2 other dudes who all work on this project. Now with a background for dirty dealings that screwed people of MANY millions, Total funding was 700 Million, would you trust these same people to make statements you could rely upon and would you trust them to build the game? If you look here you will learn about it, http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=34.15
Add in the way they changed the TOS so that backers are in the dark and cannot know what is really going on ion the company. The original TOS allowed backers to see if Roberts missed the delivery by 12 months, then he gave himself another 18 months and he missed that, then he changed the TOS a third time to remove backers ability to learn just where they stood and take away their rights to a refund. Luckily with the help of a California AG refunds have started again but only after the threat of legal action.
Add in the two loans that they claim they did not need, but took anyway, it starts to look bad. Does the circumstantial evidence begin to pile up in one corner and begin to taint the character of Roberts? We have not even gotten into detail, have not gotten into the lies that 3.0 was ready last year but needed polish when we now know he had not begun yet. Lies on top of lies. Just tonight he made statements in interviews that directly contradict the lies he told last year. The problem with being a habitual liar is that it eventually becomes so difficult to remember what lies you told to whom.
But you know what, over here and on the SC refund reddit page, we watch everything he does and says publicly and amass the evidence. You can think this is just mean spirited and you are chasing a White Whale literally and figuratively but somebody has to doo it. One day it will all collapse and backers will be shocked, but we will have been waiting. Hopefully the Attorney Generals will be able to use the documentation and put it to good use but in the meanwhile if we can manage to show some poor backer who is ambivalent about the project the entirety of the scam (as it has become) and they get their money back before losing it, we have done well.
In the meanwhile please look around I promise you that Derek Smart has been right about this situation the vast majority of times. The funny thing is that I had no idea of who DS was a year or so ago. I made some suggestions on the SC forums and was met with the typical hostility that has earned the community the crappy reputation it has. One off the asshats called me Derek Smart. Smart I had no idea what this fool was saying I looked up the name and found tons of information on the ongoing feud. Eventually with the help of the SC refunds reddit board I got my $515 back. yeah I was a fool who got wrapped up in this mess. I'm so happy to be free of it since I stopped playing the game, I found it SO fucking boring, get out of bed, do the same 3 missions, save my rep at Korea or wake up at backstabber central waste dump. Or survival mode in space ships, oh or a really shitty FPS module. He couldn't even do that well. Shattered Horizons did a better job of space combat 8 years ago. It was limited in video definition and scope because at the time only the best PC's could play it at medium display settings. I had an I7 970x so it ran well. In any case we have looked at lots of what you believe is circumstantial but in its entirety it pretty much paints a really ugly picture of this project, its future, its creator.
Please keep an open mind but also realize that you can never get anybody here to ever say "Hey that Chris Roberts is a swell fellow, his game is nifty, has great physics and novel concepts, it's reasonably priced and his marketing has been both forthright and honest. This is clearly the most transparent gaming company ever, I'm so glad we don't have to deal with any of those mean efficient publishers because CIG has done so much with so little."
Yeah there could be a perfectly innocent explanation for this or that, but there is no way they can explain away this pile of evidence. Sorry for being long winded, repetitive and not particularly clear. All this stuff becomes a blur and you have a hard time remembering where you saw this or got the link for that. I do see that Roberts has hired companies to put out tons of positive SC stories so the good stuff gets buried. It wont matter.
I read all of that. :supaburn:
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So did I. What's your take on it :smuggo:
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So did I. What's your take on it :smuggo:
Though he thought it was a "mess", I found it to be a pretty eloquent read that encapsulates how he got where he is. This whole farce is so convoluted that it's easy to miss some of the highlights, fine points etc. And that's why I write, because as it stands, my articles and blogs - regardless of veracity and/or hyperbole, serve to keep records that many people refer to to.
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You know game development. Games start with ambitious goals all the time and then get cut down to something mundane because R&D does not yield the necessary results. My expectation is that SC will do just that - they are just unusually (unreasonably?) stubborn to cut off these limbs. At one point they will drop the 100 Star Systems, boarding of ships etc etc. Is it really impossible that instead of imploding and never releasing anything they will (in the end) release "just another space-sim"? That would be my prognosis. Also: SQ42 might come out once they raise the white flag on the crazyness of the MMO. It appears they want to integrate SQ42 into the PU now as some sort of Main-Campaign of the MMO and therefore obviously all the stuff that does not work in the MMO keeps delaying SQ42.
Here's the thing, he promised to do all those things for 65m and now they have given him more than the double amount. And then it OK to scale down? And that'll go well, you think?
I ask for people's money to build them a vehicle that is a car, a truck, a boat, a submarine, a helicopter and an airplane into one. Finally, I deliver..... a car. Doesn't matter what kind, it's only a car. And then all investors would go Hmmm, not what I paid for and had in mind and definately not what I was promised but what the heck, it'll do. You really think that? Of course that's not gonna fly.
Chris is doing damage control already. He's is trying to convince the backers that the MVP is near and that everything he promised will be added on during the lifespan of the game. So basically, the 150m is used to create this piece of crap and if they want to see it finished, buy more JPEGS. The man is utterly lost. And so is Scam Citizen.
This clip says it all (https://clips.twitch.tv/CarelessGleamingNuggetsCeilingCat)
As I've said before, I don't believe that it started out as a scam. It sort of evolved into one. However, when you consider things like malfeasance as it pertains to the money, Unjust Enrichment etc, it doesn't have to fit the bit for a scam in order for it to be legally actionable. e.g. Let's take F42-UK for example. A project for which, six years later, he has now raised over $156M, of which $75M+ was spent by a UK studio he built for his brother (who now makes £230K a year at a studio that's NEVER shipped a game; even as Braben at Frontier Dev which has shipped two massive games since 2012, and a third on the way, makes £180K), and which has NO reason to exist other to unjustly enrich his UK friends and family. The same studio, the largest of five, that's supposedly developing Squadron 42, and some major components for the engine that's powering both games.
That studio could have been built right here in the US and for less. But his UK friends and family wouldn't have benefited from it in the same way.
What about pay checks? If sources are to be believed, most of the money is going to The Nine. When you find that someone as unqualified as Sandi is making the sort of money that is higher than another VP of marketing would - and from crowd-funded money - it's easy to make the case for Unjust Enrichment.
There are so many ways that they are going to be in serious problems after this project collapses, that I'm not even going to bother listing them. All I know is that someone is going to jail over this project's failure.
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I'm not saying they have made highly inaccurate statements. But if they were trying to maliciously scam people I find it hard to believe they'd do such a bad job with all the money they have at their disposal.
I agree - I don't think it's an intentional scam. CIG are just incompetent and unable to make a game. It's the marketing drives to constantly attract new backers based on false promises which is dishonest.
Strictly speaking - to label it as fraud or a scam will be a decision after the event (release of the game or collapse) - doesn't stop us having our own views on the matter though.
Look .. if you have history of fuckign things up and doing shady things which Roberts has .. at what point do you stop giving him the benefit of the doubt ? He should be extremely cautious and self aware of his past and be bending over backwards to show he isnt what that past suggests he is. But he isn't doing that is he ?
After all this water under the bridge, here he is saying this game is in continual development, with a smug grin on his face. That doesn't remotely say sorry to all the people he is letting down every minute SC remains in the mess it is with so little to show for all the $$$.
Decent people dont behave like CR is behaving.
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You just made my point. At any moment in which they fail to deliver what was promised, they're in trouble.
Because that is a point we agree on. It was in reference to the assumption that the company will inevitably fail and no game whatsoever will be released. And while that is a possible scenario the more likely (to me) is the "they release something much more mundane than promised"-case.
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What a coincidence, the funding tracker is up by another 20k. How strange. One wouldn't dare to think that the funding tracker is rigged, now would we? Let's await the major spike in JPEG selling that's about to happen. Chris' demo and speech will save the day!
I joined some discussions on Reddit today, advising a lot of people to get a refund while that is still posssble. But for some reason, that's only getting me lots of negative karma and I'm always downvoted. I dont'get it :shrug:
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Oh My God. This is Gamescom 2017 :vince:
. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkq6CXBvBrk)
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You just made my point. At any moment in which they fail to deliver what was promised, they're in trouble.
Because that is a point we agree on. It was in reference to the assumption that the company will inevitably fail and no game whatsoever will be released. And while that is a possible scenario the more likely (to me) is the "they release something much more mundane than promised"-case.
and your point is ?
Because you know the real issue is the amount people have paid and what has been promised, not turning out some simplistic shell of a game.
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and your point is ?
The discussion originated in me wishing for a more nuanced discussion. One of the examples was that sometimes it was stated as an absolute certainty that the company would implode and no game ever released which I find to be hyperbolic. That's how we ended up here. If you look at the thread though my initial complaint was aimed at the commenter who was already proclaiming that "Chris Roberts lacked the balls to face the music" which accepts as fact that Chris Roberts would not appear on friday (a mere rumor at that point proven false shortly thereafter) and that there would be some kind of uproar (i.e. "music") to be faced which - given the near-religious fervor of the fanbase - was also not extremely likely. So I'd just wish everybody pulled back a bit on this kind of stuff and tried to be better than just Star-Citizen-fanboi-hyperbole in reverse.
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Derek, can you give us any hints about what to expect from the big event tonight?
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Lot's of Uhmms and handwaving :dance:
Spectacular sales video's for pictures of ships that may or may not be made for a game that still doesn't excist.
Man, I really do hope Chris makes an ass out of himself tonight. A really big one that'll finally open the eyes of the majority of backers. Let the run on the refunds begin!
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What time does the shitshow start? :laugh:
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The only thing CIG are good at is doing tech demos (although the fans seem to think it's the actual game). I bet they have a huge art team who work on it all year - so it will be spectacular and showcase all sorts of exciting things which the fans will lap up.
From what I've seen and read I perhaps think base building will be a feature, maybe with a construction ship - not that this mechanic will ever get into the actual game any time soon.
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In one hour + 2 min from this post
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Oh My God. This is Gamescom 2017 :vince:
. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkq6CXBvBrk)
Oh my God; the comments. :supaburn:
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Derek, can you give us any hints about what to expect from the big event tonight?
- Chris will go on stage and lie his ass off
- Chris won't show most of the 3.0 stuff that's reportedly "disabled"
- They will shill a new concept ship
- Shitizens will rejoice and marvel at the new brand of lubricant they're being offered
- Goons and friends will be set with enough lols to last until end of the month
- The "Derek Was Right" mantra will inch another step closer to totality
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What time does the shitshow start? :laugh:
3PM EST. Reddit has a handy time zone guide
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/6vfoud/gamescom_event_megathread/
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/901153669567184897
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/901155274802823173
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Can't even get the show out on time....
Via Twitch:
Star Citizen: Hello everyone.
Moderator KingNewbs: hello Star Citizen
Broadcaster Verified Star Citizen: As you've no doubt noticed, we have not begun the broadcast.
Broadcaster Verified Star Citizen: We are still preparing the show.
Broadcaster Verified Star Citizen: We do not have an ETA for you at this time.
Wow - they actually sold tickets for 30euros to this event... bet the rental for the theater is half of the total they collected.
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Feel free to join our Discord channel. Invite code discord.gg/rQMpMYG (http://discord.gg/rQMpMYG)
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They're still compiling the R&D demonstration video...
And feel free to use my comments as input for your Tweets :smuggo:
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https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/901164327352381440
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Brian looks like he's about to start crying. It's like he knows the next hour will be the end of his career at CIG. He just wants to go home...
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Brian looks like he's about to start crying. It's like he knows the next hour will be the end of his career at CIG. He just wants to go home...
So brutal. I'm sure he can't wait to get away from those two wankers flanking him.
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GC 2017 event stream:
"We now safe where your ship was when you logged out and in what condition it was in."
*omg! no game has ever done that before! oh wait...*
1 players has a DC in the demo = crash! No other can take control of the ship.
Chris: can we get the weapons back or do we need to get them again?
So much for that "feature". (edit: turns out, you have to rebuy) great sql skills you got there
No loading screens.... Chris: Dont show the loading screen. Get off the loading screen. *camera goes wide angle*
AAA freaking game you got there. Queue: Buy more ships ad!
Hilarious. Still wondering if those strange moments when people were talking over CR in the demo are live or bad scripting. If 2nd then I feel sorry for the actor player on stage.
(edit: scripted. same 3rd player pilot "John" dialog on 2nd play through after crash when those two "live players" we doing it. although, different route this time soooo 50/50. Well the one thing that bugs me is would you talk over while your CEO is talking? There would be at least some silent moments imho)
edit: that's a 100% controlled environment demo. aaaand it bugs when one player has a dc. yeah sure.. it will be released by october.. ha..hahaha rofl
edit2: personal question, that's the first SC stream I watch in full and I got to ask.. were all of them that bad? It feels like the infamous "Tom Clancy The Division" trailer or something recent the "Destiny 2" trailer where you had "gamers" talking (way to friendly to be real) and at least for "The Division" like 2/3 of what they showed wasn't in the game.
edit3: OK I call scripted because rover tries to get into Idris, bugs, cut scene to 4th person, cut to first person of stage guy, sound bit *3 time is the charm* where was the 2nd try?
Also, we have the guy on stage( on foot), the girl in the basement(driving the rover), and John flying the Idris. Who is flying the ship observing the scene?
edit4: OMG rofl... they show 3.0 demo, spend half an hour to point out faceware and voip stuff... CR "That won't be in 3.0. It will be in 3.1 and I wont give a release date for that" then how the heck can you live play it now? Especially given that it worked perfectly and you had filters in action to change the sound depending of if the player wears a suit or not + distance.. We saw it, it works, live on stage ... but you don't have it working so... Fake much?
edit5: sry Derek I dont usually spam but that stream keeps on giving and let's face it, you can afford the traffic. At least some people have working games out there ;)
Idris fight in space... pew pew, 4th person view of battle (camera fly over) small screen bot right showing turret firing, nothing to see on the big screen, cut, ship explodes... sure---live play. No pre cut stuff to see here... move along..
question from the crowd: How long until we can do this?
Chris: "How long before you can do this? Well, let's cut to the guys in the basement. Cheers everybody *stream cut*
Chris: Hey 5 min pause, how about we play the jpeg ad again?
Pure comedy
Final edit: "We hope to bring 3.0 to you guys as soon as possible"
They said they had the whole thing (latest 3.0 built, even had updates during live stream) running on their booth setup with Quantum travel disabled. ( best case wrap the whole thing in an if statement and add a bool var. 10 min max, 10 sec to change it. In short bool is true/false. if statement in that case could be, if quantumtravel is yes(true) then do it, if qt is no(false) dont) So unless they made a mistake then I assume it drops tomorrow and people can play that 3.0 demo they just saw on stage. Well except the network, or voip, or wannabe VR ofc but that was only like 25% of the video.
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Guys which stretch goal was this face sharing FOIP stuff? :supaburn:
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I wonder about additional network load that this feature will create...and yeah even more feature creep we see here...
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How many memes will this spawn?
(http://i.imgur.com/iI07jnI.png)
Death ramp #2
(http://i.imgur.com/TyAyn7b.png)
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https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/901189158160535553
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/901190280954728452
https://twitter.com/DagMadra/status/901190464912732164
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This was an absolute DISASTER
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This was an absolute DISASTER
Only if you still are a Citizen. Otherwise, comedy. That crash and "omg we have to replay the whole level because there is no method/function to switch pilots" pure gold!
Oh while you are at it, how about you buy some more ships?
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(https://i.imgur.com/RdMl6iT.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/RdMl6iT.jpg)
Is that the in game picture? If so then darn! I didn't expect that kind of detail and +1 that they went for non UK teeth :D
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From what I saw at the end it was pretty janky. they had two capital ships collide. There ought to have been massive damage from both ships. Both ships trajectories should have changed. Explosions should be on both ships. It was like a kid banging his toys together, then one moves aside and explodes.
Its no wonder why they closed off comments on the you tube feed.
The crowd did not appear to be very pleased to see that presentation. Let's see what they do.
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From what I saw at the end it was pretty janky. they had two capital ships collide. There ought to have been massive damage from both ships. Both ships trajectories should have changed. Explosions should be on both ships. It was like a kid banging his toys together, then one moves aside and explodes.
Its no wonder why they closed off comments on the you tube feed.
The crowd did not appear to be very pleased to see that presentation. Let's see what they do.
Did they collide? I thought the laser pew pew blew it up. They did a cut there (live of course) and that, to me, made it look like the turret killed the ship-I think of the kind of the last scene but I was laughing hard at that time so I might have missed the collision.
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From what I saw at the end it was pretty janky
The whole thing just looked janky, and the graphics are shit, in 2012 it would have been mind-blowing but now they could skin other games in a couple of months and make something far superior.
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From what I saw at the end it was pretty janky
The whole thing just looked janky, and the graphics are shit, in 2012 it would have been mind-blowing but now they could skin other games in a couple of months and make something far superior.
Sry no offence but the graphics are fine and way more than they should be. Just remember they have to host some serious amount of players given the size of ships they already sold. If you want to get a feel for what is possible at the moment when you have to host 500+ players in the same instance/battle then take a look at Camelot Unchained. They gfx is shitty but they can host that kind of players each casting spells which travel from one server to another.
In essence I do like pretty graphics but I would like to have more than 15 players on my Javelin. If they aim for 150 people per server means at this point an increase of 1000%.
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They were running this on a LAN with rigs having specs that nobody has at home and it still performed like crap. How the hell are they going to run this as an MMO?
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They were running this on a LAN with rigs having specs that nobody has at home and it still performed like crap. How the hell are they going to run this as an MMO?
Be fair! They ran it on a nvidia 1080 client side. By the time it is released we will have 1580s or AMD 980s at least.
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I thought a bit about the presentation and.... I still don't get it.
"We could show you some power point but let's look at some footage"
*Derek goons made too many memes*
"Most of what you saw won't be in 3.0. We are not going to say when it will be released"
*not going to do the same mistake a 3rd time after december and june,+2 weeks+2weeks aso*
"Here are some jpeg ads, buy those"
*you wanted more "shut up and take my money" you got it*
How is this project still alive?
And who buys tickets for that kind of thing? Yes, you had to buy tickets for it! The people paid money to watch a stream and applaud in the end.
edit: And how the hell can they afford to create a 5th studio which from the 1h *we have to stall" is only doing mocap or stuff that is done in filming?
@Derek, could you find out how this thing is tied up into the whole RSI thing? My guess is that no matter what CR and Sandy will be able to keep it for their movie ambitions. Just a "would be nice to know"
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Overall kind of better than I expected, which isn't saying much.
The one thing that stuck in my mind was the ships and their flying around. They always felt like they were 10-inch models being moved around. They had no weight or momentum to them. When the ship was first landing to pick up the rover it was bouncing around positioning itself like it weighed 10 pounds. Then the Idris battles and things bonking into each other didn't feel right either.
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They were running this on a LAN with rigs having specs that nobody has at home and it still performed like crap. How the hell are they going to run this as an MMO?
They're not. Also 5 fps. That was hilarious.
Hey, remember when.... (http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/5521/)
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My post-show write up will be online later this weekend. I just need to bring myself to write it. In the meantime, the full YT is now online
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And that horror of a show got them 500K for today. Yeah, that's really happening right now. Face over IP is worth it. But, we predicted it. A massive spike in sales regardless of Chris' presentation...
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It's the 600i JPEG ship sale (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/ships/600i/Origin-600i-Touring#buying-options)
Plus we know the tracker is shit and fraudulent, anyway.
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Still, some people are actually buying those pictures :vince:
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Holy shit, this FOIP technology isn't even new in games...
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As I've said before, I don't believe that it started out as a scam. It sort of evolved into one. However, when you consider things like malfeasance as it pertains to the money, Unjust Enrichment etc, it doesn't have to fit the bit for a scam in order for it to be legally actionable. e.g. Let's take F42-UK for example. A project for which, six years later, he has now raised over $156M, of which $75M+ was spent by a UK studio he built for his brother (who now makes £230K a year at a studio that's NEVER shipped a game; even as Braben at Frontier Dev which has shipped two massive games since 2012, and a third on the way, makes £180K), and which has NO reason to exist other to unjustly enrich his UK friends and family. The same studio, the largest of five, that's supposedly developing Squadron 42, and some major components for the engine that's powering both games.
That studio could have been built right here in the US and for less. But his UK friends and family wouldn't have benefited from it in the same way.
What about pay checks? If sources are to be believed, most of the money is going to The Nine. When you find that someone as unqualified as Sandi is making the sort of money that is higher than another VP of marketing would - and from crowd-funded money - it's easy to make the case for Unjust Enrichment.
There are so many ways that they are going to be in serious problems after this project collapses, that I'm not even going to bother listing them. All I know is that someone is going to jail over this project's failure.
And I fundamentally disagree with your first premise. Chris Roberts endeavor with Crowd Funding "Star Citizen" was always a scam. It could have never been anything other then a scam, because that's Chris Roberts nature. In my humble opinion he's a psychopath.
Psychopaths never create anything but illusions. Their egocentric and grandiose personalities won't allow them to do anything but. That's their stock in trade, modus operandi, it's who they are,
"When another psychopath, in prison for a variety of crimes including robbery, rape, and fraud, was asked if he had any weaknesses, he replied, "I don't have any weaknesses, except maybe I'm too caring." On a 10-point scale he rated himself "an all-round 10. I would have said 12, but that would be bragging. If I had a better education I'd be brilliant."
... Psychopaths often come across as arrogant, shameless braggarts--self-assured, opinionated, domineering, and cocky. They love to have power and control over others and seem unable to believe that other people have valid opinions different from theirs. They appear charismatic or "electrifying" to some people.
Psychopaths are seldom embarrassed about their legal, financial, or personal problems. Rather, they see them as temporary setbacks, the results of bad luck, unfaithful friends, or an unfair and incompetent system.
Although psychopaths often claim to have specific goal, they show little understanding of the qualifications required--they have no idea how to achieve their goals and little or no chance of attaining them, given their track record and lack of sustained interest in education ...
Psychopaths feel that their abilities will enable them to become anything they want to be. Given the right circumstances--opportunity, luck, willing victims--their grandiosity can pay off spectacularly. For example, the psychopathic entrepreneur "thinks big," but it's usually with someone else's money." -p. 38-39 "Without Conscience, The Disturbing World of the Psychopaths Among Us" by Robert D. Hare. PHD (https://www.amazon.com/Without-Conscience-Disturbing-World-Psychopaths-ebook/dp/B005O0AVZU/ref=dp_kinw_strp_1)
Does that excerpt not relate with pinpoint accuracy to croberts? And that's just one, I could do an entire thread relating the similarity's of croberts behavior (Hand gestures and all) to Robert Hare's excellent book. Hare's book is certainly worth the read. I would recommend that everyone who reads this post, buy a copy and read it at least yearly. Mainly for your own self protection, and preservation.
My main interest in the SC scam is for my own personal understanding, it's another case study I'm doing so that I can better prepare myself in the future, for dealing with people like this, eg... avoid being scammed...
Derek I commend you for your relentless assault on this travesty that is SC. It's gotten into the realm of absolute absurdity. Hopefully it won't be long now before the walls come crashing down.
In other words if you're in for a dollar or 30000 times that much, GET A REFUND!!!
In closing here's my favorite Aesop's Fable,
"A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the
scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The
frog asks, "How do I know you won't sting me?" The scorpion
says, "Because if I do, I will die too."
The frog is satisfied, and they set out, but in midstream,
the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of
paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown,
but has just enough time to gasp "Why?"
Replies the scorpion: "Its my nature..."
-
$156 million well spent I think :lol: :laugh:
(http://i.imgur.com/bjox6JI.png)
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Well, damn. Those animation transitions...or lack thereof. :woof:
One of the YouTube comments got it right.
"This looks like something an indie dev team prepped in 6 months." :dance:
I have a new theory, and humour me for a second. This is in fact a huge MONEY LAUNDERING operation. I have to believe that the idiots buying these ships don't actually exist to such an extent. They are in fact pumping physical wads of drug money into international affiliates who are then posing as customers and investing into this overstated project with their credit accounts. Rinsing them greens. Most of the studios are probably just empty buildings with ghost employees. :psyduck:
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You know, as much fun as it is to watch the idiots go happy around, I think it's time this stops. Enough money wasted already. No more.
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6 years + $156M
(https://i.imgur.com/Yttx5XM.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIGi7ZwXYAAZ7tJ.jpg)
https://clips.twitch.tv/DifficultProudAsparagusTooSpicy
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Still, some people are actually buying those pictures :vince:
Part of what we have here is a bunch of ex MMORPG players that have grown up (or were income earners when the likes of Warcraft became massive hits) who like the idea of another MMORPG but also know (perhaps onl;y at a subconscious level) that they actually don't have the time to invest in actually playing such a game if it came out.
To these people buying JPEGS for Star Citizen is the game. It is their MMORPG and the fact it isnt yet released, and makes lofty claims to be doing things new, better and to be saving the PC gaming industry all benefits these people. They get to pretend to be playing an actual MMORPG and can show progression by buying more JPEGS and attending these sorts of events or otherwise being involved.
They can dip in and out, open their wallets when they want and carry on with the rest of their lives.
It is nothing like spending 5-18 hrs a day over years to get serious hardcore MMORPG laurels but they get something of that feeling.
They are simply not interested in waking up and smelling the coffee.
On top of that we have new people getting introduced to SC all the time and going through the cycle most backers go through .
So here we are .. CR can lie and put out the shit we saw yesterday and enough people are still buying it.
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As I've said before, I don't believe that it started out as a scam. It sort of evolved into one. However, when you consider things like malfeasance as it pertains to the money, Unjust Enrichment etc, it doesn't have to fit the bit for a scam in order for it to be legally actionable. e.g. Let's take F42-UK for example. A project for which, six years later, he has now raised over $156M, of which $75M+ was spent by a UK studio he built for his brother (who now makes £230K a year at a studio that's NEVER shipped a game; even as Braben at Frontier Dev which has shipped two massive games since 2012, and a third on the way, makes £180K), and which has NO reason to exist other to unjustly enrich his UK friends and family. The same studio, the largest of five, that's supposedly developing Squadron 42, and some major components for the engine that's powering both games.
That studio could have been built right here in the US and for less. But his UK friends and family wouldn't have benefited from it in the same way.
What about pay checks? If sources are to be believed, most of the money is going to The Nine. When you find that someone as unqualified as Sandi is making the sort of money that is higher than another VP of marketing would - and from crowd-funded money - it's easy to make the case for Unjust Enrichment.
There are so many ways that they are going to be in serious problems after this project collapses, that I'm not even going to bother listing them. All I know is that someone is going to jail over this project's failure.
And I fundamentally disagree with your first premise. Chris Roberts endeavor with Crowd Funding "Star Citizen" was always a scam. It could have never been anything other then a scam, because that's Chris Roberts nature. In my humble opinion he's a psychopath.
Psychopaths never create anything but illusions. Their egocentric and grandiose personalities won't allow them to do anything but. That's their stock in trade, modus operandi, it's who they are,
"When another psychopath, in prison for a variety of crimes including robbery, rape, and fraud, was asked if he had any weaknesses, he replied, "I don't have any weaknesses, except maybe I'm too caring." On a 10-point scale he rated himself "an all-round 10. I would have said 12, but that would be bragging. If I had a better education I'd be brilliant."
... Psychopaths often come across as arrogant, shameless braggarts--self-assured, opinionated, domineering, and cocky. They love to have power and control over others and seem unable to believe that other people have valid opinions different from theirs. They appear charismatic or "electrifying" to some people.
Psychopaths are seldom embarrassed about their legal, financial, or personal problems. Rather, they see them as temporary setbacks, the results of bad luck, unfaithful friends, or an unfair and incompetent system.
Although psychopaths often claim to have specific goal, they show little understanding of the qualifications required--they have no idea how to achieve their goals and little or no chance of attaining them, given their track record and lack of sustained interest in education ...
Psychopaths feel that their abilities will enable them to become anything they want to be. Given the right circumstances--opportunity, luck, willing victims--their grandiosity can pay off spectacularly. For example, the psychopathic entrepreneur "thinks big," but it's usually with someone else's money." -p. 38-39 "Without Conscience, The Disturbing World of the Psychopaths Among Us" by Robert D. Hare. PHD (https://www.amazon.com/Without-Conscience-Disturbing-World-Psychopaths-ebook/dp/B005O0AVZU/ref=dp_kinw_strp_1)
Does that excerpt not relate with pinpoint accuracy to croberts? And that's just one, I could do an entire thread relating the similarity's of croberts behavior (Hand gestures and all) to Robert Hare's excellent book. Hare's book is certainly worth the read. I would recommend that everyone who reads this post, buy a copy and read it at least yearly. Mainly for your own self protection, and preservation.
My main interest in the SC scam is for my own personal understanding, it's another case study I'm doing so that I can better prepare myself in the future, for dealing with people like this, eg... avoid being scammed...
Derek I commend you for your relentless assault on this travesty that is SC. It's gotten into the realm of absolute absurdity. Hopefully it won't be long now before the walls come crashing down.
In other words if you're in for a dollar or 30000 times that much, GET A REFUND!!!
In closing here's my favorite Aesop's Fable,
"A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the
scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The
frog asks, "How do I know you won't sting me?" The scorpion
says, "Because if I do, I will die too."
The frog is satisfied, and they set out, but in midstream,
the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of
paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown,
but has just enough time to gasp "Why?"
Replies the scorpion: "Its my nature..."
My Brother is a Consultant Psychiatrist. He wouldnt make a diagnosis based on what can be read , watched of CR but I am sure he would agree with some of your analysis. We are all on these scales - it is a question of where on those scales and how that manifests in behaviour.
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My Brother is a Consultant Psychiatrist. He wouldnt make a diagnosis based on what can be read , watched of CR but I am sure he would agree with some of your analysis. We are all on these scales - it is a question of where on those scales and how that manifests in behaviour.
Certainly your brother wouldn't make a clinical diagnosis without first doing a thorough review of the patients history, interviewing them, and administering a PCL, at the very least.
I'm only bringing this subject up, because I haven't seen anyone else bring it up in the many thousands of pages I've read on this ongoing train wreck of a video game. In my view this pretty adequately explains why croberts has done what he has done, and still continues to do the same to this day, over, and over, and over again.
In my opinion, he has a fundamental internal disconnect with reality that has enabled him to continue to perpetrate, and perpetuate this situation, even after full exposure of what it really is.
After my own investigation of this situation I fully agree with Derek on 2 key points,
1) Croberts isn't going to run, he's going to stay at the helm of this project until the walls come crashing down and the ship sinks,
2) People are going to jail over this, because of the sheer amount of money involved.
Of course this is only my opinion, and I'm not, nor ever will try to offer a clinical diagnosis. I'm nothing more then a layman expressing my own personal views. Though I would still encourage everyone to pick up a copy of Dr. Hare's book, and read it thoroughly. It will give you a functional understanding, that will be of benefit when trying to understand how a situation like this can start and continue on for so very long.
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The follow-up article that I am writing has a lot of video snippet references. For example:
If you noticed here at the 1:29:07 mark (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCtdyNFwQWo&feature=youtu.be&t=5347) when the Mobiglass appears, the arms are different. Someone on Discord thought it was a suit change. It's not a suit change. I believe that second arm is the model that has the mobiglass attached, and it doesn't match the actual player model suit. It's like a weapon switch. This means that the arm with the mobiglass is separate from the player model. Just like how we do high (1st person view) vs low (3rd person view) weapons in fps games.
And the view color change could be due to the fact that they are applying a full-screen filter to the fps view when you have a helmet/visor on.
Compare 1:29:09 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCtdyNFwQWo&feature=youtu.be&t=5349) to 1:29:10 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCtdyNFwQWo&feature=youtu.be&t=5350) and look carefully at the arms.
1:29:09
(http://imgur.com/XqMW1R5.jpg)
1:29:10
(http://imgur.com/tEFJysE.jpg)
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I think there now just is too much to tell the world in one posting. You'll risk drowning in words and getting so much text out there that many might dismiss it just by sheer length. Maybe you can split it into multiple segments? One that basically describes the current state and the foreseeable future and stuff, and a more technically one where you point out all the errors and the little details et cetera. Making it more readable, more to the point, might help others to start talking and seeing it in a different light too. It would be a shame if using those huge blunders by Chris could be swiped aside as "just another rambling madman with a personal grudge".
I do see momentum now. There are people on Reddit actually openly discussing the current state and discussing the fact that any negative wording gets downvoted like hell. I'm engaging in a lot of topics and people still react. So, troll I might be, but just ignoring me, they can't. Even the cultists now feel they have a right to say negative things and be heard. It would be best to feed that properly and steer this train wreck to it's final collision at Shitizen Con. I'd love to see that. It's time this thing stops.
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The follow-up article that I am writing has a lot of video snippet references. For example:
If you noticed here at the 1:29:07 mark (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCtdyNFwQWo&feature=youtu.be&t=5347) when the Mobiglass appears, the arms are different. Someone on Discord thought it was a suit change. It's not a suit change. I believe that second arm is the model that has the mobiglass attached, and it doesn't match the actual player model suit. It's like a weapon switch. This means that the arm with the mobiglass is separate from the player model. Just like how we do high (1st person view) vs low (3rd person view) weapons in fps games.
And the view color change could be due to the fact that they are applying a full-screen filter to the fps view when you have a helmet/visor on.
As for the vid link, "The arms are different"? That's your vector? Check the background. The guy on the right turns invis (goes puuf) and in general the colors change. Those are obviously 2 different settings. If that's the orginal vid then imho they could have hired a script kiddy to do better.
And the visor should not make chars disappear or change colors because it was on before the mobi activation.
As for the arm model, come on... do you really think they created a special arm and then screw up the time (night day) and the 2nd person on screen ? Sure they have money but if they did that then a lighter would be an easier way to burn it.
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I think there now just is too much to tell the world in one posting. You'll risk drowning in words and getting so much text out there that many might dismiss it just by sheer length. Maybe you can split it into multiple segments? One that basically describes the current state and the foreseeable future and stuff, and a more technically one where you point out all the errors and the little details et cetera. Making it more readable, more to the point, might help others to start talking and seeing it in a different light too. It would be a shame if using those huge blunders by Chris could be swiped aside as "just another rambling madman with a personal grudge".
Yes - this is precisely why I haven't finished it. Heck, the layout I wrote up in Scrivener is three frigging pages long.
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I'll leave the Posting Crown for you.... for now, at least :smuggo:
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As for the vid link, "The arms are different"? That's your vector? Check the background. The guy on the right turns invis (goes puuf) and in general the colors change. Those are obviously 2 different settings. If that's the orginal vid then imho they could have hired a script kiddy to do better.
And the visor should not make chars disappear or change colors because it was on before the mobi activation.
As for the arm model, come on... do you really think they created a special arm and then screw up the time (night day) and the 2nd person on screen ? Sure they have money but if they did that then a lighter would be an easier way to burn it.
I focus on that "vector" because I am talking about the arm model. Nothing else.
They just happened to have a different arm model. Just like most fps games have different weapon models. They probably haven't gotten around to matching the arm model textures to the actual player suit texture yet. It's sloppy, but it happens. Even in LoD we have different high-res arms and player weapon models for use in 1st person.
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I also wrote this over on SA (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3800238&pagenumber=2006#post475777791)
a supposed dev at neogaf is trying to say that its the pilots fault that the rover blew up on the ramp because they decided to park on uneven terrain lmao
That's pure nonsense. It's to do with how they have cobbled together a vehicle controller while separating the chassis (which is probably a rigid body) handling from the wheels (which turn in the wrong direction btw) which are animated entities.
This is why, when you see the rover moving, the chassis only reacts on it's own and incorrectly, while the wheels turn (incorrect direction btw).
This is why when they go over bumps, both chassis + wheels go over because they are on terrain that standard vehicle controllers can move on just fine using the basic vehicle controller.
Even the Nox, which doesn't touch the ground, would have intersected that ramp slope if they had done this same action with it, while trying to land it on the slope. It would have moved ahead, intersecting the slope
The main issue is that handling ANY physics body on slopes, is very tricky. It's why, when a character walking forward, then tries to go UP a slope, if the math is off, you just walk INTO the slope, thus intersecting the terrain or object (in this case, the ramp on the ship). You will also see the character angled unnaturally when standing on a slope, if you get the math wrong. Done correctly, the body standing on a slope would be perpendicular to the slope itself
The rover was destroyed because apparently the model intersecting the ramp (attached to the ship model), triggered a collision response large enough to trigger its destruction as normal. It's the sort of bug that's in 2.6.3 at the moment.
Math is hard, but I have pictures. (https://www.google.com/search?q=handling+rigid+bodies+on+a+slope&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjwq6rm_fXVAhWGQyYKHaKFDgIQ7AkIOw)
How to fix common physics problems in your game (https://gamedevelopment.tutsplus.com/articles/how-to-fix-common-physics-problems-in-your-game--cms-21418)
Handling movement on sloped surfaces - clamping character to sloped surface (https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/123917/handling-movement-on-sloped-surfaces-clamping-character-to-sloped-surface)
Ground clamping a rigidbody on slope (http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/1174445/ground-clamping-a-rigidbody-on-slope.html)
These are the same clowns who can't get animated doors working. So. :colbert:
And Scruff-Puff later provide and image showing how it would look if done correctly.
Example of it done correctly:
(http://i.imgur.com/O71OC4K.jpg)
Yup.
And in the case of the rover, it would drive right through the mountain, instead of driving up the slope like the horse.
The fact that it works for character models (as you can see when the other player ran up the ramp of the Idris) means that, like with the ship controller, they are still having issues with the vehicle controller.
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Very Special Secret Space Agent codename CR:
(http://i.imgur.com/DR25pka.gif)
Eagle to Idris, Game crahed! Abort loading screen!
https://makeagif.com/i/9FLpOB
http://imgur.com/DR25pka
edit: img doesnt work. any clue how to link a gif?
edit: board is fine just my brain is no good. Thx for the help Derek.
Taken from the Live stream at about 1h1min ish
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Very Special Secret Space Agent codename CR:
https://makeagif.com/i/9FLpOB
http://imgur.com/DR25pka
edit: img doesnt work. any clue how to link a gif?
Standard image tags should work. You just have to always provide the file extension e.g. jpg, png, gif etc
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Very Special Secret Space Agent codename CR:
https://makeagif.com/i/9FLpOB
http://imgur.com/DR25pka
edit: img doesnt work. any clue how to link a gif?
Standard image tags should work. You just have to always provide the file extension e.g. jpg, png, gif etc
tanks! worked
edit: not everyday that the boss does support. inet high five!
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If you noticed here at the 1:29:07 mark (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCtdyNFwQWo&feature=youtu.be&t=5347) when the Mobiglass appears, the arms are different. Someone on Discord thought it was a suit change. It's not a suit change. I believe that second arm is the model that has the mobiglass attached, and it doesn't match the actual player model suit. It's like a weapon switch. This means that the arm with the mobiglass is separate from the player model. Just like how we do high (1st person view) vs low (3rd person view) weapons in fps games.
It's a very confusing clip, but my take is that there's the Guy with the blue suit and the grey screen filter, and the girl with the grey suit with no screen filter. When the guy steps outside the rover to activate his Mobiglass it immediately cuts to the girl who is already using her own MobiGlass. The suit arms do match.
Clearly there are still plenty of problems:
- He clearly doesn't line up the railgun on the ship he destroys
- His second railgun shot was to the top of the rover door (with no damage)
- Shockingly bad ship in atmosphere flight mechanics
etc
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The suit arms do match.
They don't appear to match to me. Compare 1:29:09 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCtdyNFwQWo&feature=youtu.be&t=5349) to 1:29:10 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCtdyNFwQWo&feature=youtu.be&t=5350) and look carefully at the arms.
1:29:09
(http://imgur.com/XqMW1R5.jpg)
1:29:10
(http://imgur.com/tEFJysE.jpg)
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To show the nonsense with this project, this is facetracking being discussed for implementation. Back in 2013!
So this is yet another promo deal to raise money for a doomed project. This time from FacewareTech like they did with Madcatz. Like they did with CryTek, Illfonic, Behavior Interactive and several others, here is Chris taking a shot at Madcatz (https://clips.twitch.tv/AmericanMoldyLatteYouWHY) during the show after announcing FacewareTech
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They don't appear to match to me. Compare 1:29:09 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCtdyNFwQWo&feature=youtu.be&t=5349) to 1:29:10 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCtdyNFwQWo&feature=youtu.be&t=5350) and look carefully at the arms.
I know what you mean, and I thought the same the first time I saw it, but what actually happens is that as soon as the guy (blue armour, first pic) raises his arm it cuts to the girl who already has her mobiglass on. You can see her a few paces ahead in the first shot. That's why the perspective, screen colour and suit are different in the second shot.
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They don't appear to match to me. Compare 1:29:09 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCtdyNFwQWo&feature=youtu.be&t=5349) to 1:29:10 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCtdyNFwQWo&feature=youtu.be&t=5350) and look carefully at the arms.
I know what you mean, and I thought the same the first time I saw it, but what actually happens is that as soon as the guy (blue armour, first pic) raises his arm it cuts to the girl who already has her mobiglass on. You can see her a few paces ahead in the first shot. That's why the perspective, screen colour and suit are different in the second shot.
I am going to watch it again closely. If you are right, that would explain the different suits as well.
Anyway, they are using Scaleform (we use Iggy in LoD) for their UI and can create UI interfaces like that. If they're not using separate high vs low arm models, like the weapons, that means they are using the high res models in both 1st and 3rd person perspective; which also explains the performance issues.
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I wrote this over at SA (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3800238&pagenumber=2013#post475798794)
Beer4TheBeerGod posted:
You start off with some stuff. Supposedly. In reality the players would take a shitty little Aurora, fly directly to the crash site, grab the box while shooting some NPCs scavengers or animals or whatever, and GTFO the second something with any kind of firepower showed up. Or a group gets a bunch of players to get the same mission, and they all run in and grab their individual boxes while the rest hang outside and murder whatever scripted opponent shows up the millisecond it spawns.
"Reality" in this case actually meaning never because that requires CIG to develop shit that isn't O-Face Over IP or whatever bullshit Chris Roberts gets a hard on for next time.
I can tell you with 100% certainty that it won't work. Like ever.
Especially since it's a multiplayer environment.
This is why multiplayer "quests" are usually designed for solo and grouping play in order to ensure that they don't break.
This "quest mission" was just a showcase. Nothing else. And I have no reason to believe that it will ever appear in the game as depicted. Let me illustrate what they're going to be faced with.
- You need a rail gun to take down that ship. Without it, script breaks, mission fails
- You need a vehicle (Nox, Rover etc) to get to the crash site. Without it, script breaks, mission fails
- You need an aircraft to take on the opposition (NPC | players). Without it, script breaks, mission fails
Fuck it, I had n-1 computations, and just decided to fucking stop typing because it's pointless to even bother illustrating all the ways it will break and simply won't work
This is not those "take on pirates" or "flip a switch" missions in the PU which are purely for solo play.
If this mission was even for SQ42, that implies NPC will be doing those roles, the player will be directed to meet Miles, get a rail gun, find a vehicle, go get the box etc. And the Idris will be AI controlled as well.
:lol: If any of this shit is ever getting done, when they can't even get NPC pathfinding to work right.
Notice how, for 3.0, they didn't even bother playing ANY mission which would be designed for and released in that build.
n+ 1 = Other players fucking with your mission.
Going to land me a ship on their Rover, or get inbetween their guass missile shot to trigger the AI security to fuck them up.
Yup, pretty much. I had all of those running through my brain. As I mention on Discord during the stream, I've written game scripts for over 30 years, and I know precisely how they break, what can/cannot break them etc.
Heck, right now, if you have Universal Combat CE 3.0 (http://store.steampowered.com/app/370810/Universal_Combat__The_Lyrius_Conflict/) on Steam, you can download the free scripting tools (http://steamcommunity.com/app/345580/discussions/2/) (which includes sources for ALL the game scripts) I released a few months back, and script everything you saw in the Star Citizen GC2017 presentation. Without the fps inside station "fidelity" bullshit of course.
Here's what you can script with UCCE 3.0. I was actually going to do this, then play it on a live stream. But I decided that it may be regarded as poor taste, me promoting my games etc.
[scenario]
01) Start game with 3 NPC companions (marines, commanders, crew etc) at a planetary base on Earth
02) Rendezvous with a scripted NPC mission giver (http://www.3000ad.com/downloads/ucce/appendix/crew.html) (e.g. Karl Reines) at the base
03) Being within range of NPC, triggers the dialogue and gives the mission, description etc
04) Go outside to a supply platform and get a rocket launcher (http://www.3000ad.com/downloads/ucce/appendix/fpitems.html)
05) Still outside, get a ground vehicle (http://www.3000ad.com/downloads/ucce/appendix/vehicles.html), either a scripted one specific to the mission, or any of those already at the base. Your NPC companions who follow you everywhere WILL enter the vehicle with you - no prompting (though they do receive AI orders from player) required
06) Drive to location of mission and retrieve a scripted cargo box (http://www.3000ad.com/downloads/ucce/appendix/misc.html)
07) When you reach a certain location, hostile aircraft (gunships (http://www.3000ad.com/downloads/ucce/appendix/cascrafts.html) or fighters (http://www.3000ad.com/downloads/ucce/appendix/fighters.html)) will engage the vehicle
08) Exit vehicle (as will your NPC companions)
09) Collect box using vehicle. Yes, that's actually a thing and there is UI for it. Box is transferred to to cargo of vehicle
10) A scripted capital ship (carrier (http://www.3000ad.com/downloads/ucce/appendix/carriers.html), cruiser (http://www.3000ad.com/downloads/ucce/appendix/cruisers.html), or transport (http://www.3000ad.com/downloads/ucce/appendix/transports.html)) is triggered to appear and land (yes, it's an actual script command)
11) Drive to the capital ship while evading airborne hostile AI ships. As the driver in a single player game, you will have to stop, exit vehicle, engage with rocket launcher if you want to avoid getting killed en-route. NPC team will also do the same!
12) Reach capital ship, enter (this will also give you command if you want) - as will NPC team.
13) Fly capital ship, fly to altitude, reach Escape Velocity, enter space. Plot jump course to delivery location at a planetary base on Mars
14) Emerging from hyperspace jump within Mars orbit, activates scripted hostile ships
15) Defeat hostile cap ships
16) Either A) fly cap ship to the Mars base, land and delivery cargo or B) use the cap ship's transporter to beam you, your team, and cargo to the location below
When the script detects the cargo pod within proximity of the destination location - scenario ends. You WIN.
Without having to download the full GBS package above, here are the docs (http://downloads.3000ad.com/mods/ucce30/gbs_docs.txt) and command reference (http://downloads.3000ad.com/mods/ucce30/gbs_qref.txt) to give an idea of how ALL of the above can be scripted. Here is what a sample complex mission looks like. This guy even did a TC (http://steamcommunity.com/app/345580/discussions/2/1318836262653719864/) using the scripting tools.
And - right now - there are various scripts in both UCCE 2.0 and 3.0, as well as AAW, which use and show ALL of the above.
Also, you can do pretty much everything you see in the demo in LoD; complete with fps inside a station (space or planet), vehicles on a planet etc. Except that LoD is pure PvP and has no scripting components, due to it using a completely different (a far less advanced) engine from my BC/UC games. Also, there is no cap ship combat like in BC/UC.
And if you want to see highly advanced NPC fps AI, then go play All Aspect Warfare (http://store.steampowered.com/app/36910/), which is purely fps, vehicle, and aircraft action. And that engine was built off the core BC/UC engines.
And UCCE is from 2004. While UCCE 2.0 is from 2009. And hopefully UCCE 3.0 will be completed by end of 2018, as 95% of the work is in redoing over 1000+ assets used in the game.
And a six year project which has raised over $157M, worked on by over 500 people (past and present), can't complete a simple quest script, let alone build a custom engine that fucking works. :argh:
There is nothing innovative or unique about Star Citizen. Those Shitizens are fucking dreaming themselves into a nightmare where there's a hole in their wallets.
This Star Citizen bullshit, is why I decided to even do this UCCE 3.0, which is getting a major graphics overhaul, without changing anything else about the robust underlying engine tech.
ps: There are some videos on our YT channel (https://www.youtube.com/c/3000ADGAMESCHANNEL)
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Clearly, you are mistaken. How else would you explain almost 1 million revenue on a bogus funding tracker with the selling of pictures in just 2 days?
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I wrote this over at SA (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3800238&pagenumber=2013#post475798794)
Beer4TheBeerGod posted:
You start off with some stuff. Supposedly. In reality the players would take a shitty little Aurora, fly directly to the crash site, grab the box while shooting some NPCs scavengers or animals or whatever, and GTFO the second something with any kind of firepower showed up. Or a group gets a bunch of players to get the same mission, and they all run in and grab their individual boxes while the rest hang outside and murder whatever scripted opponent shows up the millisecond it spawns.
"Reality" in this case actually meaning never because that requires CIG to develop shit that isn't O-Face Over IP or whatever bullshit Chris Roberts gets a hard on for next time.
I can tell you with 100% certainty that it won't work. Like ever.
Especially since it's a multiplayer environment.
This is why multiplayer "quests" are usually designed for solo and grouping play in order to ensure that they don't break.
This "quest mission" was just a showcase. Nothing else. And I have no reason to believe that it will ever appear in the game as depicted. Let me illustrate what they're going to be faced with.
- You need a rail gun to take down that ship. Without it, script breaks, mission fails
- You need a vehicle (Nox, Rover etc) to get to the crash site. Without it, script breaks, mission fails
- You need an aircraft to take on the opposition (NPC | players). Without it, script breaks, mission fails
Fuck it, I had n-1 computations, and just decided to fucking stop typing because it's pointless to even bother illustrating all the ways it will break and simply won't work
This is not those "take on pirates" or "flip a switch" missions in the PU which are purely for solo play.
If this mission was even for SQ42, that implies NPC will be doing those roles, the player will be directed to meet Miles, get a rail gun, find a vehicle, go get the box etc. And the Idris will be AI controlled as well.
:lol: If any of this shit is ever getting done, when they can't even get NPC pathfinding to work right.
Notice how, for 3.0, they didn't even bother playing ANY mission which would be designed for and released in that build.
n+ 1 = Other players fucking with your mission.
Going to land me a ship on their Rover, or get inbetween their guass missile shot to trigger the AI security to fuck them up.
Yup, pretty much. I had all of those running through my brain. As I mention on Discord during the stream, I've written game scripts for over 30 years, and I know precisely how they break, what can/cannot break them etc.
Heck, right now, if you have Universal Combat CE 3.0 (http://store.steampowered.com/app/370810/Universal_Combat__The_Lyrius_Conflict/) on Steam, you can download the free scripting tools (http://steamcommunity.com/app/345580/discussions/2/) (which includes sources for ALL the game scripts) I released a few months back, and script everything you saw in the Star Citizen GC2017 presentation. Without the fps inside station "fidelity" bullshit of course.
Here's what you can script with UCCE 3.0. I was actually going to do this, then play it on a live stream. But I decided that it may be regarded as poor taste, me promoting my games etc.
[scenario]
01) Start game with 3 NPC companions (marines, commanders, crew etc) at a planetary base on Earth
02) Rendezvous with a scripted NPC mission giver (http://www.3000ad.com/downloads/ucce/appendix/crew.html) (e.g. Karl Reines) at the base
03) Being within range of NPC, triggers the dialogue and gives the mission, description etc
04) Go outside to a supply platform and get a rocket launcher (http://www.3000ad.com/downloads/ucce/appendix/fpitems.html)
05) Still outside, get a ground vehicle (http://www.3000ad.com/downloads/ucce/appendix/vehicles.html), either a scripted one specific to the mission, or any of those already at the base. Your NPC companions who follow you everywhere WILL enter the vehicle with you - no prompting (though they do receive AI orders from player) required
06) Drive to location of mission and retrieve a scripted cargo box (http://www.3000ad.com/downloads/ucce/appendix/misc.html)
07) When you reach a certain location, hostile aircraft (gunships (http://www.3000ad.com/downloads/ucce/appendix/cascrafts.html) or fighters (http://www.3000ad.com/downloads/ucce/appendix/fighters.html)) will engage the vehicle
08) Exit vehicle (as will your NPC companions)
09) Collect box using vehicle. Yes, that's actually a thing and there is UI for it. Box is transferred to to cargo of vehicle
10) A scripted capital ship (carrier (http://www.3000ad.com/downloads/ucce/appendix/carriers.html), cruiser (http://www.3000ad.com/downloads/ucce/appendix/cruisers.html), or transport (http://www.3000ad.com/downloads/ucce/appendix/transports.html)) is triggered to appear and land (yes, it's an actual script command)
11) Drive to the capital ship while evading airborne hostile AI ships. As the driver in a single player game, you will have to stop, exit vehicle, engage with rocket launcher if you want to avoid getting killed en-route. NPC team will also do the same!
12) Reach capital ship, enter (this will also give you command if you want) - as will NPC team.
13) Fly capital ship, fly to altitude, reach Escape Velocity, enter space. Plot jump course to delivery location at a planetary base on Mars
14) Emerging from hyperspace jump within Mars orbit, activates scripted hostile ships
15) Defeat hostile cap ships
16) Either A) fly cap ship to the Mars base, land and delivery cargo or B) use the cap ship's transporter to beam you, your team, and cargo to the location below
When the script detects the cargo pod within proximity of the destination location - scenario ends. You WIN.
Without having to download the full GBS package above, here are the docs (http://downloads.3000ad.com/mods/ucce30/gbs_docs.txt) and command reference (http://downloads.3000ad.com/mods/ucce30/gbs_qref.txt) to give an idea of how ALL of the above can be scripted. Here is what a sample complex mission looks like. This guy even did a TC (http://steamcommunity.com/app/345580/discussions/2/1318836262653719864/) using the scripting tools.
And - right now - there are various scripts in both UCCE 2.0 and 3.0, as well as AAW, which use and show ALL of the above.
Also, you can do pretty much everything you see in the demo in LoD; complete with fps inside a station (space or planet), vehicles on a planet etc. Except that LoD is pure PvP and has no scripting components, due to it using a completely different (a far less advanced) engine from my BC/UC games. Also, there is no cap ship combat like in BC/UC.
And if you want to see highly advanced NPC fps AI, then go play All Aspect Warfare (http://store.steampowered.com/app/36910/), which is purely fps, vehicle, and aircraft action. And that engine was built off the core BC/UC engines.
And UCCE is from 2004. While UCCE 2.0 is from 2009. And hopefully UCCE 3.0 will be completed by end of 2018, as 95% of the work is in redoing over 1000+ assets used in the game.
And a six year project which has raised over $157M, worked on by over 500 people (past and present), can't complete a simple quest script, let alone build a custom engine that fucking works. :argh:
There is nothing innovative or unique about Star Citizen. Those Shitizens are fucking dreaming themselves into a nightmare where there's a hole in their wallets.
This Star Citizen bullshit, is why I decided to even do this UCCE 3.0, which is getting a major graphics overhaul, without changing anything else about the robust underlying engine tech.
ps: There are some videos on our YT channel (https://www.youtube.com/c/3000ADGAMESCHANNEL)
What are the 400 staff actually doing ?
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What are the 400 staff actually doing ?
They actually have some great developers, and some of the best digital artists in the industry, but this is an academic case study in poor project management, and how terrible project management can lead amazing people to produce very little with a lot of money and time.
For starters Chris Roberts has a history of fucking up projects, and got forcefully taken off his pride and joy Freelancer by Microsoft, who had to intervene to actually get the game finished when it was massively delayed and over budget. This is why many many many studios and publishers, including famous names like EA, refused Chris Roberts for years when Chris went begging to get Star Citizen made with their money. In the end he "decided he didn't need a publisher" and used Kickstarter backers, which we now know was a massive mistake, because for a project this size there needs to be a separation of power between the money and the idea people, which is why Publishers are essential.
Next because Chris is such an awful project manager, he doesn't know what virtues to look for in other people to make good managers, and so he's hired a load of school children to lead the development, who probably don't even know what a Gantt chart is before they started working at CIG / Foundry 42. One guy was fucking stacking shelves in a supermarket and now he's second in charge of production at the biggest studio in the UK, literally 2 years later, I'm not even joking. No development experience, and he started at CIG answering customer complaints as a customer service phone agent, then got promoted to second head honcho of project management?
When this does crash Chris Roberts will be seriously screwed, because lawyers will start asking what project management qualifications the staff Chris chose to manage the company had, PRINCE 2? Don't think so, APM Chartered? LOL What's APM? I think maybe Chris chose these young people because they're incredibly naive and wont ask where all the laundered money is disappearing to. They're just star struck to be chosen to have such a prestigious job at a young age and will be left holding the bag when the project implodes.
In business project management is the most essential thing, above all else, even more important than the product believe it or not. Good project managers will lead projects and businesses to thrive, even with terrible staff or products. Bad project managers will kill a golden goose even if it's shitting gold with the best staff in town.
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Sure but as a high quality professional at what point does that crap rub off on you and taint your resume/CV ?
If a relative novice can sit and watch that presentation and draw the conclusion that this is an unmitigated disaster that is going no where fast and ripping off tens of thousands of gamers why arent these high quality employees gtfo because they must surely recognise this is undermining their professionalism.
$ will explain some remaining but these people must know how badly this is all being run and how so little is being produced.
You can excuse people a few years into their careers but once you can confidently call yourself an expert and have 5 years under your belt you have to have the confidence to know you have marketable skills and distance yourself from such a project.
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Be that as it may, but you still have to earn your money. So working for CIG might be not the best thing for your career, but at least it pays the bills. A problem Chris won't have when he's in jail.
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Clearly, you are mistaken. How else would you explain almost 1 million revenue on a bogus funding tracker with the selling of pictures in just 2 days?
Yeah. Plus, don't forget, I'm a cranky old failed gamedev who is jealous of Chris Roberts. So that's why I keep hating on him.
As to that revenue, according to stats, it appears to be the same 2K or so whales. And the it's still trending downwards, compared to other similar events.
What are the 400 staff actually doing ?
That's the thing, nobody knows. Though, according to my sources it's all about engine issues, Chris's overreaching demands, rework etc.
Also, don't forget that NOBODY on that team of 500 (past and present) has EVER worked on an MMO game, let alone a game of this scope.
Seriously, right now, there isn't a sensible gamedev or gamer who would look at what they have right now, and say "Yeah, that's a game alright".
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What are the 400 staff actually doing ?
They actually have some great developers, and some of the best digital artists in the industry, but this is an academic case study in poor project management, and how terrible project management can lead amazing people to produce very little with a lot of money and time.
For starters Chris Roberts has a history of fucking up projects, and got forcefully taken off his pride and joy Freelancer by Microsoft, who had to intervene to actually get the game finished when it was massively delayed and over budget. This is why many many many studios and publishers, including famous names like EA, refused Chris Roberts for years when Chris went begging to get Star Citizen made with their money. In the end he "decided he didn't need a publisher" and used Kickstarter backers, which we now know was a massive mistake, because for a project this size there needs to be a separation of power between the money and the idea people, which is why Publishers are essential.
Next because Chris is such an awful project manager, he doesn't know what virtues to look for in other people to make good managers, and so he's hired a load of school children to lead the development, who probably don't even know what a Gantt chart is before they started working at CIG / Foundry 42. One guy was fucking stacking shelves in a supermarket and now he's second in charge of production at the biggest studio in the UK, literally 2 years later, I'm not even joking. No development experience, and he started at CIG answering customer complaints as a customer service phone agent, then got promoted to second head honcho of project management?
When this does crash Chris Roberts will be seriously screwed, because lawyers will start asking what project management qualifications the staff Chris chose to manage the company had, PRINCE 2? Don't think so, APM Chartered? LOL What's APM? I think maybe Chris chose these young people because they're incredibly naive and wont ask where all the laundered money is disappearing to. They're just star struck to be chosen to have such a prestigious job at a young age and will be left holding the bag when the project implodes.
In business project management is the most essential thing, above all else, even more important than the product believe it or not. Good project managers will lead projects and businesses to thrive, even with terrible staff or products. Bad project managers will kill a golden goose even if it's shitting gold with the best staff in town.
I agree with this assessment. They have quite a few good people there; all trying to earn a living while working to make his "dreams" come true. But it doesn't matter. You can have the best minds on a project, but if the management fails, so too will the project.
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I was thinking about CIG's recent chart of shipstopper bugs and the trendline that showed they were getting them fixed.
Ignore the fact that they used the standard chart-fud technique of dropping off the bottom of the Y-axis - and that the trendline shows those 72 shipstopper bugs (or however many they were) getting done in 2 or 3 years.
Consider instead that you're planning a kick-ass demo for a major show that is intended to blow away all criticism and keep the money rolling in. You've got that list of 72 bugs in front of you to remind you what to avoid and you carefully script a demo where ...
- Some players can see the NPCs and others can't.
- Your ground vehicle explodes when you try to drive it up a ramp.
- Major players crash right out of the game.
- Etc. etc.
Backers have to ask: If those bugs weren't the shipstoppers - what do the shipstoppers look like?
(And could that be why they haven't gotten a "patch" since ... what, April?)
Note that there is no objective industry standard definition of shipstopper: It's a relative thing that varies based on your project's funding and how desperate you are to ship vs. your other goals (e.g., happy customers).
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Well that's why, as of this minute, there are over 3000+ bugs in 2.6.3. Now add all the new ones from 3.0, and you'll know precisely how many shitstoppers are inbound.
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Goon Discord commentary on GC2017. It's hilarious. :laugh:
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Also, compare GC2016 to GC2017 to see how far smoke & mirrors have come
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Interesting point made on spectrum by community fella, they could have shown just a pre recorded demo and not done anything live. Yet they did it, warts and all.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/lets-be-honest-about-gamescom-2017/428472
'No smoke and mirrors here folks!'
Nice.
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https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/lets-be-honest-about-gamescom-2017/428472
And ?
1) This does not change that demo was totally scripted and current v3.0 state = totally broken mess...
2) and that face thing total waste of time, basically Sandworm v2.0 - probably never make into game..in case there is a game in the end at all = waste of backers money and dev time...
btw after Gamecon i noticed increased CIG employee activity in Spectrum, I guess to damage control...they know that presentation was average at best...
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Of course it was scripted. It was a demo to show certain things in game. No point showing one guy just flying off into the black whistling a merry tune!
Your opinion on the face thing is yours. I thought it was pretty cool and am looking forward to having a go myself. I also like the head tracking feature too, excellent way to raise my situational awareness.
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Interesting point made on spectrum by community fella, they could have shown just a pre recorded demo and not done anything live. Yet they did it, warts and all.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/lets-be-honest-about-gamescom-2017/428472
'No smoke and mirrors here folks!'
Nice.
That's all largely irrelevant. Whether they tried to hide it or not, doesn't make it any less of a disaster for a 6 year, $158M project. The same 3.0 demo concept shown last year, and which, aside from the worm glitch, went off without a hitch, is still not in the game. And that too was staged, and not a pre-recorded demo.
Nobody has been knocking them for bugs and crashes because we all expect it. Ignoring that simple fact, is precisely the reason why you all are contributing to the slow and steady collapse of the project.
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How am I contributing to the fictional collapse of the project?
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How am I contributing to the fictional collapse of the project?
Because YOU guys are the ones fighting a losing battle, while ignoring the realities of the project. Had YOU guys held CIG accountable back in 2015, they project would probably have either collapsed by now, or moved farther along. You know this. So it's not hard to understand, especially when people in your own group are only now admitting to it.
When I spent my own money on legal bills, while you guys were spending it on JPEGS, you all all were still attacking me. Yet, months after my attorneys communicated my demands to CIG, 2 (refunds, dev schedule) out of 3 (financial accountability) things did end up happening, despite CIG rejecting - in writing - those demands.
But I'm the bad guy. Just wait; the worst is yet to come. And LOL if you think GC2017 was the worst of it.
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Do you have any idea how many times I've seen you post 'just wait....' or similar? It's lots and lots.
Luckily, thanks to CIG, I'm very good at waiting and nothing overly significant ever happens. That's why I'm here laughing at you.
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Do you have any idea how many times I've seen you post 'just wait....' or similar? It's lots and lots.
Luckily, thanks to CIG, I'm very good at waiting and nothing overly significant ever happens. That's why I'm here laughing at you.
Yet, even as the "wait" continues, so does the project's continued decline. Checkmate.
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Because YOU guys are the ones fighting a losing battle, while ignoring the realities of the project. Had YOU guys held CIG accountable back in 2015, they project would probably have either collapsed by now, or moved farther along. You know this. So it's not hard to understand, especially when people in your own group are only now admitting to it.
The whole story is a result of the Internet being essentially broken now.
One to two decades earlier the whole Star Citizen would have been debunked in a few large Usenet discussions/flamewars, where everyone would have met to learn about the newest hype and Star Citizen would have ended up as a FAQ entry posted weekly stating "Avoid this scam!"
But the net turned into an assortment of echo chambers with paid shills and advertising disguised as reporting media. It took me about a year from 2014 to get down to the real facts on SC, backed by my dev knowledge. How can uninformed bystanders even get a real picture of this mess?
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Because YOU guys are the ones fighting a losing battle, while ignoring the realities of the project. Had YOU guys held CIG accountable back in 2015, they project would probably have either collapsed by now, or moved farther along. You know this. So it's not hard to understand, especially when people in your own group are only now admitting to it.
The whole story is a result of the Internet being essentially broken now.
One to two decades earlier the whole Star Citizen would have been debunked in a few large Usenet discussions/flamewars, where everyone would have met to learn about the newest hype and Star Citizen would have ended up as a FAQ entry posted weekly stating "Avoid this scam!"
But the net turned into an assortment of echo chambers with paid shills and advertising disguised as reporting media. It took me about a year from 2014 to get down to the real facts on SC, backed by my dev knowledge. How can uninformed bystanders even get a real picture of this mess?
:five: :five: :five:
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Because YOU guys are the ones fighting a losing battle, while ignoring the realities of the project. Had YOU guys held CIG accountable back in 2015, they project would probably have either collapsed by now, or moved farther along. You know this. So it's not hard to understand, especially when people in your own group are only now admitting to it.
The whole story is a result of the Internet being essentially broken now.
One to two decades earlier the whole Star Citizen would have been debunked in a few large Usenet discussions/flamewars, where everyone would have met to learn about the newest hype and Star Citizen would have ended up as a FAQ entry posted weekly stating "Avoid this scam!"
But the net turned into an assortment of echo chambers with paid shills and advertising disguised as reporting media. It took me about a year from 2014 to get down to the real facts on SC, backed by my dev knowledge. How can uninformed bystanders even get a real picture of this mess?
This is why it is a scam.
CR is long enough in the tooth to know the effect his lies and fantasies have on a certain subsection of gamers.
He also knows his software is crap, not remotely up to the job and going to take years to get right.
He isnt going to last that long.
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So, it's September 13. Where the 3.0 update at?
What a scammy scam. :psyduck:
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Last we heard, it was "early October" now. But tomorrow's schedule report should have new hilarity.
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So, the end is near. The baby Jesus patch 3.0 is about to meet the Avocado's. Now let the crash and burn begin :woop: