Author Topic: Star Citizen Citizenship  (Read 647442 times)

dsmart

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Re: The Star Citizenship
« Reply #390 on: September 25, 2017, 02:13:23 PM »
Quote
Quote from: Motto
And another one is leaving

Yeah, it's a new account, so let's hope it's not another "$45K" incident. But then again there are lots of backers who never had a Reddit account before.

But real or not, it's still hilarious either way if Shitizens continue to troll themselves and create their own FUD.
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

dsmart

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Re: The Star Citizenship
« Reply #391 on: September 25, 2017, 02:14:44 PM »
Speaking of Shitizens, this truly is the dumbest thing you will read today. Guaranteed. And for laughs, just take a look at his Reddit posting history and it will all make sense. Completely.

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That instance-switching veiled loading screen POS Elite Dangerous just shrinks planets and stars to tennis ball size to fool you into believing you travel far distances in supercruise. It's nothing but smoke and mirrors because their tech is so dated and lazy, they couldn't do it any other way without spending money on developement.
And I bet they needed that dev money elsewhere: Braben's shareholders, Braben's pool, Braben's dinosaur- and rollercoaster games, Braben's console ports, etc.
TLDR, no we don't want any lazy shit from Elite's game design, the only few good things they took from Chris Robert's game design answers, and implemented them in a half assed way.
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

Motto

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Re: The Star Citizenship
« Reply #392 on: September 25, 2017, 02:47:03 PM »
Now, I just wacked a tennisball and a marble into the sky with a racket. At one point, they both had the same visible size. But when they landed on my head, the marble did hurt way, way more than the tennisbal. Is that because the fidelity of the marble (see-thru glass) was higher than that of the tennisball (yellow no-see thru rubber/felt)? Or was it because I was looking directly into the sun? Is there a Reddit where I can ask that question? Anybody?

dsmart

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Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

premiumnugz

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Re: The Star Citizenship
« Reply #394 on: September 25, 2017, 03:24:00 PM »
Yeah, it's a new account, so let's hope it's not another "$45K" incident. But then again there are lots of backers who never had a Reddit account before.

But real or not, it's still hilarious either way if Shitizens continue to troll themselves and create their own FUD.

We could set up a system with trusted mods on the Discord to verify refunds by logging into the Zendesk. Simple enough and completely secure.

dsmart

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Re: The Star Citizenship
« Reply #395 on: September 25, 2017, 03:31:56 PM »
Meanwhile over on SA

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Hereís a sickening truth. As 3.0 started slipping they added features for a while, to make it make up for the delays. Iíve seen this kind of thing in project management before. Some part of a project slips so you ask for extra time and then the person in charge tries to make that something you can bargain about. Yes, we can put it out later, but we have to add ____ to mollify the publisher (or backers). And they guess that the thing they are adding wonít be that much of an increase, or itíll affect unrelated parts of the team from the blocker or whatever. And theyíre always wrong. Because the slipping happening in the first place means weíre not great at timing out tasks; we would we think weíre better now?

So 3.0 has grown in scope and in importance as a kind of Jesus patch that would fundamentally alter the game. Reward their patience. Backers bought this story and so did we. Backers because they wanted all their pipeline theories to be true. And we did because we keep telling ourselves that 3.0 might be the MVP that would let SC shut down refunds and maybe walk away.

But weíre getting none of that. After delays and delays, dropping the schedule entirely, and then a Burndown process that was horizontal or perhaps even upward trending, CIG have started cutting features from the patch entirely. As far as we can tell, the last two weeks of must fix bug counts dropping off are attributable to the features those bugs are attached to being cut out of the 3.0 patch. Whoever makes the game dev documentaries has Erin Roberts on film for all if us to enjoy as he gives up and asks the team to get the most basic thing out the door. The Jesus patch is long abandoned, and itís looking more and more like 3.0 will feel like an incremental update accompanied by claims that under the hood itís revolutionary.

Nearly a year of pain and suffering by the CIG people in the trenches to force out something thatís going to feel and awful lot like a monthly patch.
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

dsmart

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Re: The Star Citizenship
« Reply #396 on: September 27, 2017, 08:22:36 AM »

The comments are Golden. I added mine, something I rarely do on those videos. But he invoked my name. So. :colbert:

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I know that you guys see my face tattooed on the back of your eyelids when you sleep at night, but seriously, is there ANY discussion about Star Citizen without you guys dragging me into it? And why do you guys keep doing this? I am NOT responsible for this train-wreck; you DO know that, right?

Star Citizen is a disastrous mess and an on-going scam. I didn't do that. Chris Roberts did.

And NO backers voted to :

1) change the scope of the game
2) change the premise of the game
3) change the gameplay style of the game

You guys keep parroting that bullshit knowing fully well that it's 100% FALSE.

There was NO vote by backers that arrived at this decision. NONE. ZERO. ZILCH.  And I have PROOF.

http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=29.msg2233#msg2233

Chris Roberts changed ALL OF THAT on his own. It was a unanimous decision that he made, and it's that same management style that the famous Jennison letter which I just wrote about yesterday, served to highlight. That was TWO years ago THIS month btw.

http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/5840/

As to that 1.8 million backers. First, that's pure and utter rubbish. Last we checked, even with duplicates, refunds (closed accounts) etc, there were barely 500K backers. Even Turbulent confirmed this barely a year ago in a widely publicized interview they did. Care to look that up? Just like how Twitter, Facebook and similar subscription services can claim numbers in ballpark figures, so too does CIG. And we even have analytics.

http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=53.0

Right now, as I type this, there is NO player engagement with most of the modules, not even the PU. And yes, we have analytics for that too.

http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=53.msg4486#msg4486

The streamers have all mostly jumped ship, and even they they do stream nowadays, they hardly get a few viewers. And most of those are just Goons trolling them - hard.

You know why ALL of this is happening, apart from the fact that the game is pure shite, the last patch was in April 2017, and the community is mostly TOXIC? Because THERE IS NO GAMEPLAY LOOP. There are so many times you can do the same repetitive bullshit before you start putting salt in your tea, and sniffing glue to maintain your sense of reality.

In 2014 the mantra was to wait for 2.0. Then it came out in Dec 2015, a disaster.

In 2016 the mantra was to wait for 3.0. Then instead of the 3.0 promised, 2.6 came out in Dec 2016, a wet fart.

Now in 2017, it's yeah, this time 3.0 is going to absolutely kill it. Then guess what? By the time the first 3.0 schedule appeared in April 2017, it looked NOTHING like the promised 3.0 from Aug 2016. And then YOU guys keep talking shit about "...but yeah, they are giving us so much more than what they promised in 2016". Which, any gerbil with a neural implant will take one freaking look at the before & after list of 3.0 promises, and go "wtf you talking about, bro?". Yeah, we have that INDISPUTABLE PROOF too.

http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=29.msg4494#msg4494

Just stop it.

If you're going to rave and rant, here's an idea, trying doing it against CIG or Chris Roberts (who btw, doesn't even talk to you plebs who gave him $160M to blow on bullshit under the pretext of making a game). NOTHING is gained by engaging and attacking people who have an opposing opinion on this train-wreck.

The game is FUBAR, and there is NO SAVING IT. This is something you guys have to deal with.
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

dsmart

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Re: The Star Citizenship
« Reply #397 on: September 27, 2017, 02:14:49 PM »
Just wait until something called 3.0 drops and they really stop doing refunds. Don't say you weren't warned

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen_refunds/comments/72uhy2/cig_tries_to_make_refunds_harder/
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

Orgetorix

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Re: The Star Citizenship
« Reply #398 on: September 27, 2017, 09:57:16 PM »

The comments are Golden. I added mine, something I rarely do on those videos. But he invoked my name. So. :colbert:

Quote
I know that you guys see my face tattooed on the back of your eyelids when you sleep at night, but seriously, is there ANY discussion about Star Citizen without you guys dragging me into it? And why do you guys keep doing this? I am NOT responsible for this train-wreck; you DO know that, right?

Star Citizen is a disastrous mess and an on-going scam. I didn't do that. Chris Roberts did.

And NO backers voted to :

1) change the scope of the game
2) change the premise of the game
3) change the gameplay style of the game

You guys keep parroting that bullshit knowing fully well that it's 100% FALSE.

There was NO vote by backers that arrived at this decision. NONE. ZERO. ZILCH.  And I have PROOF.

http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=29.msg2233#msg2233

Chris Roberts changed ALL OF THAT on his own. It was a unanimous decision that he made, and it's that same management style that the famous Jennison letter which I just wrote about yesterday, served to highlight. That was TWO years ago THIS month btw.

http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/5840/

As to that 1.8 million backers. First, that's pure and utter rubbish. Last we checked, even with duplicates, refunds (closed accounts) etc, there were barely 500K backers. Even Turbulent confirmed this barely a year ago in a widely publicized interview they did. Care to look that up? Just like how Twitter, Facebook and similar subscription services can claim numbers in ballpark figures, so too does CIG. And we even have analytics.

http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=53.0

Right now, as I type this, there is NO player engagement with most of the modules, not even the PU. And yes, we have analytics for that too.

http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=53.msg4486#msg4486

The streamers have all mostly jumped ship, and even they they do stream nowadays, they hardly get a few viewers. And most of those are just Goons trolling them - hard.

You know why ALL of this is happening, apart from the fact that the game is pure shite, the last patch was in April 2017, and the community is mostly TOXIC? Because THERE IS NO GAMEPLAY LOOP. There are so many times you can do the same repetitive bullshit before you start putting salt in your tea, and sniffing glue to maintain your sense of reality.

In 2014 the mantra was to wait for 2.0. Then it came out in Dec 2015, a disaster.

In 2016 the mantra was to wait for 3.0. Then instead of the 3.0 promised, 2.6 came out in Dec 2016, a wet fart.

Now in 2017, it's yeah, this time 3.0 is going to absolutely kill it. Then guess what? By the time the first 3.0 schedule appeared in April 2017, it looked NOTHING like the promised 3.0 from Aug 2016. And then YOU guys keep talking shit about "...but yeah, they are giving us so much more than what they promised in 2016". Which, any gerbil with a neural implant will take one freaking look at the before & after list of 3.0 promises, and go "wtf you talking about, bro?". Yeah, we have that INDISPUTABLE PROOF too.

http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=29.msg4494#msg4494

Just stop it.

If you're going to rave and rant, here's an idea, trying doing it against CIG or Chris Roberts (who btw, doesn't even talk to you plebs who gave him $160M to blow on bullshit under the pretext of making a game). NOTHING is gained by engaging and attacking people who have an opposing opinion on this train-wreck.

The game is FUBAR, and there is NO SAVING IT. This is something you guys have to deal with.

 :perfect:

Kyrt

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Re: The Star Citizenship
« Reply #399 on: September 27, 2017, 11:53:06 PM »
The No Bamboozles Release guy quit

Vital Stats

- CIG feature complete estimate: Sep 29 (originally Jun 26)
- CIG Evocati "must fix" bugs remain: 7 (26 last week) <--- this is where 19 bugs automagically disappeared (no, they weren't fixed. Read this)
- No Bamboozles feature complete forecast (p50-p75): Oct 4 - 12 (originally Jul 19 - Sep 6)
- Worst-case (p90) feature complete date: October 25th (originally Oct 27)
- Live release date guess: one week after feature complete (Oct 11 - 19; worst case Nov 1)

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I wish SC all the best.

I hope they succeed.

But CIG are showing a remarkable lack of progress, and are still stuck in the pre-Alpha stage of development. By their own timetable, they won't get anywhere near an Alpha state until 4.0...

And there is a lack of direction. CIG are working on adding new ships and characters - but at this stage, the basic game engine still isn't finished, the netcode still isn't done, the flight model needs improving and by adding characters, ships and other assets now, CIG have just doubled or tripled their workload because these assets will - by their own admission - need to be redone.

We all saw the demo at GC17. Those graphics looked years out of date. Granted, the actual worlds looked good but the ships, characters and so on need a complete overhaul.

CIG seem to be working on detail that ultimately does not matter. Creating new tools only pays off if they cut the total development time. There is no point spending five years developing a toolkit that will allow you to create a world or ships in seconds if you could otherwise have written the entire game in three. There is no point spending years developing an AI system that won't be of use within this game. A shopkeeper doesn't need AI to serve you and to be honest, a simple terminal system with robotic handlers is just as convenient, more realistic and easier to program.

I am hoping....really hoping...that despite all my criticism, and that of others...that 3.0 will really truly pay off. That it will reward the patience of the people who have backed this project. I want Star Citizen to succeed. I like the genre. I have ED, I have NMS...I got Elite itself in 1984 on the Speccy. I didn't even mind the lenslok....the game was THAT good.

So I want SC to be out and I want it to meet expectations and promises.

Maybe its because I'm a natural skeptic but I just cannot understand why the backers of Star Citizen seem so blind to its problems. I know they want it...I know **I** want it.

But the development of this game went off track years ago. Chris Roberts got carried away and embraced feature creep and bloat. That was, I think, mistake 1. Mistake 2 was sticking with CryEngine. I can't say if that was a wise choice for the game originally pitched, but I assume that it would have been possible, but I can't see how anyone can think it suited for the game CIG are developing now. I firmly believe that if CIG had taken a year or two to develop their own core engine and netcode, they would currently be much further along in the development of Star Citizen.

As it is, SC has a lot of systems that aren't needed and add little or no value to the game, all while the core foundations - the game engine, the netcode, the flight model - remain unfinished. Meanwhile, CIG seems to be embracing gameplay elements that sound impressive...but ultimately, totally unfun. Do I really need to worry about loading cargo onto a ship? I'm all for realism and I'm all for challenge and I'm all for immersion - but all of that needs to be balanced against the factor that is "fun".

Just to clarify things - the quote is from me, and I am not the No Bamboozles guy.

GaryII

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Re: The Star Citizenship
« Reply #400 on: September 28, 2017, 02:34:51 AM »

 I know that you guys see my face tattooed on the back of your eyelids when you sleep at night, but seriously, is there ANY discussion about Star Citizen without you guys dragging me into it? And why do you guys keep doing this? I am NOT responsible for this train-wreck; you DO know that, right?

  Some of them will blame you for refunds that started because of you...
  Also CIG lost money from sales that did not happen because you started your crusade against CR..so when SC fails I bet some cultists will blame you not CR...     
   

Kyrt

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Re: The Star Citizenship
« Reply #401 on: September 28, 2017, 02:55:51 AM »
Some of them will blame you for refunds that started because of you...
  Also CIG lost money from sales that did not happen because you started your crusade against CR..so when SC fails I bet some cultists will blame you not CR...   

Most likely.

Personally, I think DS is having an effect, but its overstated. The game is still raising millions every month.

What hurts fundraising and refunds more is...I believe...the lack of progress from CIG and the flawed presentations.

Showing what SHOULD have been a highly polished demo at GC17 was a good move.

IF it had worked perfectly. Or nearly so.

Having it crash...having it highlight the lack of persistence...having them show the sync and lag issues...not showing a full mission loop....that capital ship fight at the end?...the buggy exploding....the aged graphics...the performance issues...and more.

Showing THAT was not a good idea. That demo needed to be polished to within an inch of its life and it needed to work....and that it didn't only reinforced the impression that CIG didn't really care, especially after the delays.

That one event probably had more of an impact on fundraising and refunds than everything Derek Smart has said over two years.  Hes had an impact...but a small one.

That isn't going to stop people scapegoating him.

Personally, I'd say let the people keep pushing their money at CIG. Let them deal with the fallout. But Derek Smart is probably right...given the crowdfunding nature, the fallout from any collapse will be negative for the industry.




Motto

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Re: The Star Citizenship
« Reply #402 on: September 28, 2017, 03:23:37 AM »
Now how could that be? By own admission of the backer fanbase, Derek Smart is an irrelevant, insignificant, wannabe developer of games that nobody wants to buy or play even if they are given away for free. He's a nobody desperately trying to draw attention to himself and his so-called games by attaching himself to the greatest game developer ever. Now how can a guy as dumb as he singlehandedly be responsible for the crash of a six (seven) year project that has collected over 160 million from backers worldwide? That can't be right. That's way too much credit for that washed-out fossil.

Remember the following: "Happy customers do not ask their money back!" Now that's the second mantra for when CIG has collapsed. The first one being "Derek Smart was right!" of course.

« Last Edit: September 28, 2017, 03:26:11 AM by Motto »

GaryII

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Re: The Star Citizenship
« Reply #403 on: September 28, 2017, 03:39:59 AM »
What hurts fundraising and refunds more is...I believe...the lack of progress from CIG and the flawed presentations.

 If there was good progress every year, then today we probably had very playable SC and SQ42 versions to play...
 And instead of writing blogs or getting refunds Derek and many others now would be enjoying the game...       

 I have no idea how much money CR lost because of Derek, but I think its at least several millions...

Motto

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Re: The Star Citizenship
« Reply #404 on: September 28, 2017, 04:29:17 AM »
They didn't lose money because of Derek. To state that would mean that Derek actually had something to do with that, and he didn't. Derek has nothing to do with CIG being a train-wreck. He is only documenting it.

They are losing money because they don't deliver. It's that simple.

 

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