Author Topic: Star Citizen General BS  (Read 803683 times)

Serendipity

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #510 on: July 26, 2017, 12:29:37 PM »
Well I like to think I'm not stupid and there's very little wrong with my head, thanks for the concern. I've read and watched a lot from all sides of this project from RSI to SA to Derek's blogs to media articles, Reddit, fan casts and even the open house. I've read articles about game design and cryengine and tried to understand as much as possible. What they're attempting is not impossible in my opinion, or at least enough of what they want to achieve to make it good+.

I don't think they're starved for cash and won't be for long enough to create something cool. You don't. Neither stance makes either of us messed up in the head, carnally or otherwise.

It's clichéd but true, wait and see.

Edit: Just to add I enjoy talking about Star Citizen, that's why I'm here. Still learning as much as possible from as many places as possible 😀
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 12:31:23 PM by Serendipity »

nightfire

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #511 on: July 26, 2017, 01:01:19 PM »
Why would I joke? Maybe I'm just different to you.

You demonstrate an enormous amount of faith in CIG’s ability to deliver the game. No matter which event or possible outcome is being discussed, you appear to be giving CIG the benefit of the doubt. There seems to be virtually nothing which makes you doubt that CIG has good intentions and the best interests of their backers at heart. You consistently seem to consider statements, promises and reasoning from CIG management to be unquestionable and beyond doubt.

I find this level of faith in a third party to which you have nothing more than a customer relation astounding. Normally, I’d expect such faith and devotion only from true religious believers and members of a church. But CIG and its promised game are not supposed to be a religion or a cult! Oh, wait…

Serendipity

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #512 on: July 26, 2017, 02:38:43 PM »
Why would I joke? Maybe I'm just different to you.

You demonstrate an enormous amount of faith in CIG’s ability to deliver the game. No matter which event or possible outcome is being discussed, you appear to be giving CIG the benefit of the doubt. There seems to be virtually nothing which makes you doubt that CIG has good intentions and the best interests of their backers at heart. You consistently seem to consider statements, promises and reasoning from CIG management to be unquestionable and beyond doubt.

I find this level of faith in a third party to which you have nothing more than a customer relation astounding. Normally, I’d expect such faith and devotion only from true religious believers and members of a church. But CIG and its promised game are not supposed to be a religion or a cult! Oh, wait…

I believe they'll deliver a game that I'll enjoy playing at some point in time. Probably two, but I don't have enough emotional attachment to become a cultist. I don't believe they're money laundering scumbags, deliberately lying with full knowledge of imminent collapse, nor do I think CR is the saviour of PC gaming and Star Citizen is undoubtedly going to be the greatest game of all time. I think there's a chance it'll be great and there's a chance it will never get released or be a disgraceful mess if it does.

Right now, considering funding is continuing at a decent pace, my belief they don't have current financial issues and that 3.0 dropping, in even a mildly impressive way, will see them spike up again, I'm coming down on the side of it ending up being a good gaming experience.

I'm not in a cult.

Motto

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #513 on: July 26, 2017, 03:10:06 PM »
There is absolute no proof that funding is still at a steady pace. The only way to say that is when you believe their statscounter on their website. A counter that could be (well, be honest, most definitely is) fake. There is no way they actually still are getting these kinds of funding every day. Impossible.

Serendipity

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #514 on: July 26, 2017, 03:41:05 PM »
There is absolute no proof that funding is still at a steady pace. The only way to say that is when you believe their statscounter on their website. A counter that could be (well, be honest, most definitely is) fake. There is no way they actually still are getting these kinds of funding every day. Impossible.

Is there any proof that it's fake? Not analysis, analytics or guesswork, proof? Are they still paying wages and hiring? Yes. Are they still developing? Yup. Will they have more sales and generate more funding? Yessiree. Have there been propositions of financial collapse for years? Uh huh. Have they collapsed? Well nossir.

Do you believe Derek's sources that tell him they've taken in over 220 million in total? If you do, have they still got no money left?

For me, the chances of imminent financial collapse are small. You've drawn a different conclusion. Guess what. We'll have to wait and see won't we.

StanTheMan

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #515 on: July 26, 2017, 03:52:36 PM »
Why would I joke? Maybe I'm just different to you.

You demonstrate an enormous amount of faith in CIG’s ability to deliver the game. No matter which event or possible outcome is being discussed, you appear to be giving CIG the benefit of the doubt. There seems to be virtually nothing which makes you doubt that CIG has good intentions and the best interests of their backers at heart. You consistently seem to consider statements, promises and reasoning from CIG management to be unquestionable and beyond doubt.

I find this level of faith in a third party to which you have nothing more than a customer relation astounding. Normally, I’d expect such faith and devotion only from true religious believers and members of a church. But CIG and its promised game are not supposed to be a religion or a cult! Oh, wait…

I believe they'll deliver a game that I'll enjoy playing at some point in time. Probably two, but I don't have enough emotional attachment to become a cultist. I don't believe they're money laundering scumbags, deliberately lying with full knowledge of imminent collapse, nor do I think CR is the saviour of PC gaming and Star Citizen is undoubtedly going to be the greatest game of all time. I think there's a chance it'll be great and there's a chance it will never get released or be a disgraceful mess if it does.

Right now, considering funding is continuing at a decent pace, my belief they don't have current financial issues and that 3.0 dropping, in even a mildly impressive way, will see them spike up again, I'm coming down on the side of it ending up being a good gaming experience.

I'm not in a cult.

Do you know any of the history of MMORPGs ?

concern

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #516 on: July 26, 2017, 04:57:38 PM »
The hilarious elephant in the room here, is that CIG can make all the rumors and speculation disappear in an instant. They can pull the rug out from under Derek's feet and re-open the levels of funding that they previously enjoyed. It's really simple and it's all in their hands.

All they have to do is to disclose the reality of their situation: finances, development progress, road-map. Total transparency and it all disappears. Derek doesn't get to publish and they get the pleasure of rubbing his nose in it.

Why, I wonder, would they not do this? So simple.

nightfire

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #517 on: July 26, 2017, 09:39:09 PM »
All they have to do is to disclose the reality of their situation: finances, development progress, road-map. Total transparency and it all disappears. Derek doesn't get to publish and they get the pleasure of rubbing his nose in it.

The problem with this approach is:

CIG’s claims of „reality of their situation" ≠ „reality“

(see: „promised scope vs. planned scope“, „published schedule vs. current delays“, „previous roadmaps“ vs. „revised roadmaps“ etc.)

The only way to make all controversy disappear in an instant is:

Actual delivery of the game(s) as promised.

And as Derek constantly mentions, 5 years and $155m later, with the game still in pre-alpha and 15% of the promised scope implemented, you’ve got to be asking questions whether many of us will still be alive to see this happen. That’s the actual issue about this game and its development.

Serendipity

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #518 on: July 27, 2017, 03:30:12 AM »
Quote
Do you know any of the history of MMORPGs ?

Not really. I'm not a big gamer and I've never played an MMO before. Is Star Citizen going to be a role playing game? That implies levelling up and what not doesn't it? Not sure it applies and not sure of the relevance of other projects. If there's one thing we can all agree on it's that SC is it's own beast. It's development, scope and intense scrutiny is unlike anything that has come before, especially for an indie dev team, (as in no publisher).

In what way do you think the history of other MMOs applies to SC?

The hilarious elephant in the room here, is that CIG can make all the rumors and speculation disappear in an instant. They can pull the rug out from under Derek's feet and re-open the levels of funding that they previously enjoyed. It's really simple and it's all in their hands.

All they have to do is to disclose the reality of their situation: finances, development progress, road-map. Total transparency and it all disappears. Derek doesn't get to publish and they get the pleasure of rubbing his nose in it.

Why, I wonder, would they not do this? So simple.

Private companies don't disclose their financials in the main. The reason is so suppliers and/or competitors can't use the information against them. Hiking prices if they're flush with cash, for example.

They're being reasonably open with the dev schedule for 3.0, the report is available on the website with it's 'aggressive targets' and numerous caveats. I've heard there will be one for Squadron 42 at some point as well. They also produce multiple development videos and posts each and every week! What more can they do?

Have a watch of AtV tonight for details on development. Read the schedule or monthly reports. Ask the devs on the forums, twitter or reddit.

Of course we can't see absolutely everything, that would be daft with those around who like nothing more than to take a dump on the project but they show us a hell of a lot. More than anyone else that I know of. Much, much more.

Motto

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #519 on: July 27, 2017, 04:25:55 AM »
That may be true for the US, but overhere corporate companies are required to publish their P&L statement every year. Failing to do so is an economical crime with severe penalties. A regular criminal is treated better.

And what more could they do? Well for a start, they could communicate honestly. You can't keep delaying every item on your to-do list but still maintain the same old enddate end of August. If I have 9 women I still can't deliver a baby next month.

They are waiting for Games Com end of August and until then they are feeding the hype and promising all kinds of stuff to keep everybody hyped and picking up their wallets. And shortly after Games Com, then everything falls apart, no updates, missed deadlines etc. But not too much because in October they have to pull the same stunt again for ShitizenCon. The period between Games Com and ShitizenCon will be crucial for CIG.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 05:00:59 AM by Motto »

Serendipity

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #520 on: July 27, 2017, 04:40:16 AM »
That may be true for the US, but overhere corporate companies are required to publish their P&L statement every year.

It's true for the EU, UK and US. CIG operates in these three areas only. None of which require private companies to publish accounts. Only those that trade on a stock exchange are required to do so.

And what more could they do? Well for a start, they could communicate honestly. You can't keep delaying every item on your to-do list but still maintain the same old enddate end of August. If I have 9 women I still can't deliver a baby next month.

They are waiting for Games Com end of August and until then they are feeding the hype and promising all kinds of stuff to keep everybody hyped and picking up their wallets. And shortly after Games Com, they everything falls apart, no updates, missed deadlines etc. But not too much because in October they have to pull the same stunt again for ShitizenCon. The period between Games Com and ShitizenCon will be crucial for CIG.

If you look at the schedule report, it clearly says the dates are intentionally aggressive and that its all liable to change. I believe they're being honest. Overly optimistic and aggressive to encourage speed but honest when you take into account the caveats they quite clearly have added. A date on the schedule report isn't a promise or set in stone. Why can't you, honestly, appreciate this simple fact. Its an aggressive schedule with caveats. To me, it's you not being honest by suggesting any date on there is a promise of delivery. Please read the caveat section. Thanks.

Of course an item can be delayed and it not change the possible release date. If something else was taking longer than it in the first place. Something originally scheduled for 10th august which is put back to the 24th won't effect the release if there was already something not being completed until the 24th already. It's pretty simple to be honest...

Showing what they've been working isn't a 'stunt', it's called marketing. They're producing a game and showing what they've got. Time frames don't bother me. Waiting I can do. I'm in no rush. What's the point in demanding something mediocre now when I can wait for something that might be awesome in time? I'd rather wait thank you.

Do you really need to use profanity? It sure as hell confirms your confirmation bias. Confirmception!
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 04:52:17 AM by Serendipity »

Motto

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #521 on: July 27, 2017, 04:58:51 AM »
No, you are wrong here. For instance, in The Netherlands all corparate companies (Ltd, PLC or as they are called BV or NV) have to file their annual financial report with the Chamber of Commerce. If they're on the stock market doesn't matter. And those annual reports can be retrieved by everybody. It is my understanding that this applies to most Western countries, so that's why we now (finally) have the figures from the UK. Germany probably has the same rules.

Only the big ones on the stockmarket with shareholders will do a pressconference etc. but all corporate companies need to file their financial statements. Pressconferences are required as well if you have information that could have a major impact on your stockprice (like expected big losses, take-over bids etc.).

If CIG was an European company, all their financial and business details (within the legally required specifications of course) would have been available from the start (after the first year of course). And it probably wouldn't have gotten out of hand as it has now.

And do you remember 3.0? Coming to you in all theaters December 19th. Of 2016! Agressive schedule with caveats my ass.

Oh, where did I use profanity? Apart from my behind just above.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 05:06:50 AM by Motto »

Serendipity

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #522 on: July 27, 2017, 05:11:52 AM »
No, you are wrong here. For instance, n The Netherlands all corparate companies (Ltd, PLC or as they are called BV or NV) have to file their annual financial report with the Chamber of Commerce. If they're on the stock market doesn't matter. And those annual reports can be retrieved by everybody. It is my understanding that this applies to most Western countries, so that's why we now (finally) have the figures from the UK. Germany probably has the same rules.

Only the big ones on the stockmarket with shareholders will do a pressconference etc. but all corporate companies need to file their financial statements. Pressconferences are required as well if you have information that could have a major impact on your stockprice (like expected big losses, take-over bids etc.).

If CIG was an European company, all their financial and business details (within the legally required specifications of course) would have been available from the start (after the first year of course). And it porbably wouldn't have gotten out of hand as it has now.

And do you remember 3.0? Coming to you in all theaters december 19th. Of 2016!

Oh, where did I use profanity?

Private companies and partnerships that do not trade on a stock exchange do not need to file financials. Ltd companies and PLC both trade shares on a stock exchange so do have to publish financial information. CIG does have European offices, UK x2 and Germany. They don't publish financial information because they don't have to as they don't trade on a stock exchange.

Annual accounts
Keeping annual accounts is not only a legal obligation, it enables you to monitor the health of your business by keeping track of receipts and expenses. Companies with limited liability doing business in the EU, whatever the size, have to prepare a set of financial statements and file it with the relevant national business register.

If you are self-employed or if your business is incorporated in a type with unlimited liability, your business is not regulated by EU rules: you should check the rules which have been decided by each Member State.


http://europa.eu/youreurope/business/start-grow/annual-accounts/index_en.htm

limited liability
nounBRITISH
the condition by which shareholders are legally responsible for the debts of a company only to the extent of the nominal value of their shares.

No shares being traded, unlimited liability, no financial information required.

To further clarify, the only reason traded companies need to publish financials is so people can decide if they want to buy or sell shares. How can investors know what to invest in if that information isn't available?

I remember Chris hoped to get 3.0 to us by the end of last year. He never promised, in fact he explicitly said, no promises. Game dev is hard. Chris is bad at timescales. Meh.

Is the word 'Shit' not a profanity? It appears you now use the 'word' 'Shitizen' without even noticing, further displaying your confirmation bias and skewed point of view.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 05:27:18 AM by Serendipity »

Motto

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #523 on: July 27, 2017, 05:38:13 AM »
The rules you mention do not apply for The Netherlands. Probably why don't have an office there.

And if you think Shitizens is a profanity because you consider shit a profanity, then we have different perceptions of profanity.

Profanity is socially offensive language,[1] which may also be called bad language, strong language, offensive language, coarse language, foul language, bad words, vulgar language, lewd language, choice words or expletives. The use of such language is called swearing, cursing or cussing.

I don't consider the (use of the) word shit a profanity.

Serendipity

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #524 on: July 27, 2017, 05:46:45 AM »
I'm reasonably sure the Netherlands is a part of the EU. The rules I mentioned are for EU members. Please accept you are wrong, because you are. Who knows if maybe you might be wrong about the future of SC too.  :smugdog:

The word 'shit' is most definitely a swear word. The Oxford dictionary has it listed as 'vulgar slang'. A swear word.

shit
NOUN

mass noun
vulgar slang

The Dutch version, 'stront', can be used neutrally. Thanks Wikipedia!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_profanity
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 05:57:47 AM by Serendipity »

 

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