Author Topic: Star Citizen General BS  (Read 803692 times)

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #555 on: July 29, 2017, 05:58:04 AM »
Meanwhile over there...

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The schedule's analysis is becoming harder and harder to do each week. As you probably know, the schedule only contains "features" tasks, leaving out everything around like bugfixing, release preparation, and general polishing. As tasks get completed and CIG moves to the final phases of preparation for the release, we have less and less information on what's going on, and what's causing delays.

We'll start this week with the Mission Givers, which are under an animation rework. Also, some code dependencies are missing. All that pushes them by 2 weeks.

Next is the inventory system gamecode engineering. The schedule hasn't been updated on that, so we don't know if it's completed or not.

The Entity Owner Manager, which we've learned a bit in this week's ATV (check out the persistence segment), is also being delayed by 2 weeks.

Next is UI. We start with inventory, which as for the gamecode part hasn't been updated. The Character Customisation has been update though, but all CIG says is that they don't have an ETA anymore as developers are supporting other tasks. We then have the Vehicle Customiser App, which is delayed by 2 weeks, and the Comms System UI, which is delayed by 3 weeks. Both delays are due to developers supporting other tasks.

In the AI department, the Mission System is still under work, with an additionnal 2 weeks required.

Finally, the L86 Pistol Rework is delayed by 5 days, as the quality review discovered some elements that needed improvements.

It's almost as if...

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There seems to be an interesting pattern:

- Week A: delay critical tasks, add a few fluff tasks, do not delay overall launch prediction. Sales are usually held during these weeks.
- Week B: close a few fluff tasks to convey an image of progress, delay the overall launch prediction for two weeks

This can go on a very long time and keep backers happy, as we have now seen with already more than doubled time from 3.0 June prediction.

But people are starting to notice.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2017, 06:05:28 AM by dsmart »
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

Serendipity

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #556 on: July 29, 2017, 07:31:47 AM »
Here's a link to a video showing a time lapse of an approach to Port Olisar from 26,000km. There is no breaks in game play. https://robertsspaceindustries.com/community/citizen-spotlight/5681-Time-Lapse-26-000-Km-Cruise-To-Port-Olisar


7 hours of cruising without any breaks in gameplay. It's not millions but it's 3 orders of magnitude over 20 which fits the 64 bit positional change. There's no reason it couldn't be done across the whole map. There is no selected end point. There is no break or seam. I've done it myself to a lesser extent access significantly large volumes of space. The entities aren't loaded all together but millions of miles of empty space exist as a single, traversable map. It's a fact. Go load up the game and try it for yourself. Why you try to argue something that is available in game hasn't been done, is beyond me. It's there. Go try it for yourself.

Here's a video showing them building a star system or two as a single map which is millions of km across.


I don't 'know' they have something to show but it's a fair assumption. I've heard rumours of a Squadron demo being shown. It seems you agree, as do your sources. Strange thing to question me about when you already know the same. Lateness doesn't bother me. Think I've mentioned that already.

Just how many refunds do you think they're giving out? They made well over a million dollars in the last three weeks. I think just that alone should cover every single refund ever given a few times over. To suggest they need to hand over the most recent purchases to refunds is laughable.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2017, 08:16:08 AM by Serendipity »

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #557 on: July 29, 2017, 09:00:59 AM »
7 hours of cruising without any breaks in gameplay. It's not millions but it's 3 orders of magnitude over 20 which fits the 64 bit positional change. There's no reason it couldn't be done across the whole map. There is no selected end point. There is no break or seam. I've done it myself to a lesser extent access significantly large volumes of space. The entities aren't loaded all together but millions of miles of empty space exist as a single, traversable map. It's a fact. Go load up the game and try it for yourself. Why you try to argue something that is available in game hasn't been done, is beyond me. It's there. Go try it for yourself.

Oh you're so cute. Again, please go and learn how scenes are generated, loaded, and updated. Then come back and lets have a chat.

ps: Your videos are not proof of any claim you've made. Instead, you're engaging in the usual deflection. We talk about one thing, you bring up something else, while ignoring the original thing.
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

BigM

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #558 on: July 29, 2017, 10:05:02 AM »
Here we are talking maps this, maps that. The only thing we should be talking about in our reality is the beta release of this on going alpha that doesn't even actually play like an alpha. At least none as a gamer I have seen, from all the way back with Ultima Online. It amazes me that only a few actually see how this is nothing more than Chris Roberts once again has no clue how to build, test, create, any actual game. Also, the little respect his brother Erin has had is clearly now just a failing memory to a lot of people.

The only concept after all these years we should be agreeing on is the only true statement about this game, Derek was Right! Yet it now should be Derek IS Right!

Chris Roberts the destroyer of developers/Kickstarters/crowd funding!

Really how delusional do you have to be to actually not see the truth?

N0mad

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #559 on: July 29, 2017, 10:19:15 AM »
I've been following this thread for a while and thought I might chip in.

The point about the Map size is that CIG aren't doing anything with CryEngine which isn't already commonplace in many other game engines.

The makers of Kerbal Space Program did a good talk about how they've achieved huge maps in Unity: Skip to 4:20
 

Hope this helps !

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #560 on: July 29, 2017, 10:20:25 AM »
I've been following this thread for a while and thought I might chip in.

The point about the Map size is that CIG aren't doing anything with CryEngine which isn't already commonplace in many other game engines.

The makers of Kerbal Space Program did a good talk about how they've achieved huge maps in Unity: Skip to 4:20
 

Hope this helps !

Trust me, those of us who have actually developed this stuff, have written about it numerous times.
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

Motto

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #561 on: July 29, 2017, 10:23:42 AM »
Clearly they didn't know anything about game development.

BigM

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #562 on: July 29, 2017, 12:19:33 PM »
Clearly they didn't know anything about game development.

They have been really really good at scamming.

Motto

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #563 on: July 29, 2017, 12:59:13 PM »
You're referring to the wrong "they" now   ;)

Serendipity

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #564 on: July 29, 2017, 04:35:11 PM »
7 hours of cruising without any breaks in gameplay. It's not millions but it's 3 orders of magnitude over 20 which fits the 64 bit positional change. There's no reason it couldn't be done across the whole map. There is no selected end point. There is no break or seam. I've done it myself to a lesser extent access significantly large volumes of space. The entities aren't loaded all together but millions of miles of empty space exist as a single, traversable map. It's a fact. Go load up the game and try it for yourself. Why you try to argue something that is available in game hasn't been done, is beyond me. It's there. Go try it for yourself.

Oh you're so cute. Again, please go and learn how scenes are generated, loaded, and updated. Then come back and lets have a chat.

ps: Your videos are not proof of any claim you've made. Instead, you're engaging in the usual deflection. We talk about one thing, you bring up something else, while ignoring the original thing.

I'm not trying to deflect anything. I'm trying to understand. How about this video where you can see Yela from around 3 minutes as a couple of pixels and it slowly getting bigger as the player gets closer? Can you explain how this doesn't show a single map being traversed without any loading or cut scenes or anything other than an obviously mind bogglingly huge, single map that is being travelled through in real time?

Your explanation does not fit this video. It just doesn't. You can see the distant object start off as a couple of pixels that slowly becomes bigger as they get closer. How you explain it just doesn't fit this evidence, which is easily repeatable for anyone who has played the game. There's no zones or loading or anything. Just a ship moving through tens of thousands of kilometres of 64 bit positional space.

Also, stop flirting with me you tease, I'm not cute. 😝

StanTheMan

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #565 on: July 29, 2017, 06:52:14 PM »
The delay in releasing 3.0 until after their two major jpeg selling events will get them more $.

The wait is Tantric for some Shitizens but will it make CIG enough $ to keep going well into 2018 ?

N0mad

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #566 on: July 30, 2017, 01:38:30 AM »
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There's no zones or loading or anything. Just a ship moving through tens of thousands of kilometres of 64 bit positional space.

You talk about the map size in Star Citizen as though they've managed to do something no one else has ever achieved before. This plainly isn't true, Elite Dangerous (although I haven't played it) manages to pull off huge star systems, SpaceEngine (free download) allows you to visit planets in other Galaxies, and upcoming titles such as Duel Universe are just as ambitious.

Regarding 64 bit positioning. Again this is nothing new, nor is it especially hard to do - just change all the float values to double. Space Engineers have managed to pull it off http://blog.marekrosa.org/2014/12/space-engineers-super-large-worlds_17.html (note - that was 2014). Although, using 64 bit positioning may explain why the performance is so poor and the physics is a so jittery in Star Citizen (same problems in Space Engineers).

As far as I can tell, Star Citizen isn't doing anything technically different to many other games. There is no new technology, it's just standard industry stuff but they refer to it using different terms to make it sound like something they've invented. eg Subsumption technology for the AI - which as far as I can tell is just a fancy term for a Behaviour Tree - which they still can't seem to make work - by all means correct me if I'm wrong on this.

The only thing Star Citizen does differently to other games is their constant drive for FIDELITY - creating a fluid physics simulation for drinks, creating a whole system to deal with picking up objects, rendering every little bolt and fixture in high detail. The reason why no other game does this is because it's a performance hog and detracts from the actual gameplay. In that regard, Star Citizen seems to be a giant art project rather than a game, but that's just my opinion!


Serendipity

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #567 on: July 30, 2017, 01:58:48 AM »
Quote
There's no zones or loading or anything. Just a ship moving through tens of thousands of kilometres of 64 bit positional space.

You talk about the map size in Star Citizen as though they've managed to do something no one else has ever achieved before. This plainly isn't true, Elite Dangerous (although I haven't played it) manages to pull off huge star systems, SpaceEngine (free download) allows you to visit planets in other Galaxies, and upcoming titles such as Duel Universe are just as ambitious.

Regarding 64 bit positioning. Again this is nothing new, nor is it especially hard to do - just change all the float values to double. Space Engineers have managed to pull it off http://blog.marekrosa.org/2014/12/space-engineers-super-large-worlds_17.html (note - that was 2014). Although, using 64 bit positioning may explain why the performance is so poor and the physics is a so jittery in Star Citizen (same problems in Space Engineers).

As far as I can tell, Star Citizen isn't doing anything technically different to many other games. There is no new technology, it's just standard industry stuff but they refer to it using different terms to make it sound like something they've invented. eg Subsumption technology for the AI - which as far as I can tell is just a fancy term for a Behaviour Tree - which they still can't seem to make work - by all means correct me if I'm wrong on this.

The only thing Star Citizen does differently to other games is their constant drive for FIDELITY - creating a fluid physics simulation for drinks, creating a whole system to deal with picking up objects, rendering every little bolt and fixture in high detail. The reason why no other game does this is because it's a performance hog and detracts from the actual gameplay. In that regard, Star Citizen seems to be a giant art project rather than a game, but that's just my opinion!

As I've mentioned, it's new for cryengine. I know other games have done it but none of them look as nice as cryengine and no other game is doing everything that SC is trying to do, Elite and 'space legs' aside, even then it's not to the same level as SC is attempting with its skill based mini game mining et Al.

The promise of SC is worth waiting for and seeing as I don't believe they're in financial trouble anytime soon I'm happy to wait for this beautiful art project to become a game worth playing.

N0mad

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #568 on: July 30, 2017, 02:35:25 AM »
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The promise of SC is worth waiting for and seeing as I don't believe they're in financial trouble anytime soon I'm happy to wait for this beautiful art project to become a game worth playing.

If they ever deliver it then it will be a very beautiful game to look at, but if it means having space dog fights at 20fps then that won't be fun. Exactly what gameplay are they actually delivering? If you look at their Gameplay production schedule for 3.0 its:
  • PLAYER MANNED TURRETS
  • PICK UP & CARRY
  • Ship systems: Radar System, Light Control System, Fuel / Refuel, Power Supply / Pipes, Quantum Drive
  • INSURANCE
  • STAMINA
  • DOORS & AIRLOCKS
  • CARGO
  • COMMODITIES
  • KIOSK SUPPORT
  • ATMOSPHERIC ENTRY SUPPORT
  • PERSISTENT DAMAGE, AMMO AND MISSILES
  • REPAIR
  • INVENTORY SYSTEM SUPPORT
  • ROVER AND DRAGONFLY IN SHIPS
  • HINT SYSTEM
  • Points of Interest
  • new Mission System.
  • Power Plants / Shield Generators / Coolers and the Heat & Power System

These are mostly just features not actual gameplay mechanics.

So you can haul cargo, dogfight a bit with pirates (but be careful because you won't get your ship back for a while if it's destroyed), do missions (?how many will be in 3.0?), loot some wrecks. Enough to keep you entertained for a few hours at most.

They seem so obsessed with creating a high fidelity universe that they've forgotten it's meant to be a game. It strikes me that they seem to be falling into the same trap as No Man's Sky who spent so much time creating a giant procedural universe that they forgot to add anything interesting to do when you actually played the game.

Serendipity

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #569 on: July 30, 2017, 09:17:25 AM »
Quote
The promise of SC is worth waiting for and seeing as I don't believe they're in financial trouble anytime soon I'm happy to wait for this beautiful art project to become a game worth playing.

If they ever deliver it then it will be a very beautiful game to look at, but if it means having space dog fights at 20fps then that won't be fun. Exactly what gameplay are they actually delivering? If you look at their Gameplay production schedule for 3.0 its:
  • PLAYER MANNED TURRETS
  • PICK UP & CARRY
  • Ship systems: Radar System, Light Control System, Fuel / Refuel, Power Supply / Pipes, Quantum Drive
  • INSURANCE
  • STAMINA
  • DOORS & AIRLOCKS
  • CARGO
  • COMMODITIES
  • KIOSK SUPPORT
  • ATMOSPHERIC ENTRY SUPPORT
  • PERSISTENT DAMAGE, AMMO AND MISSILES
  • REPAIR
  • INVENTORY SYSTEM SUPPORT
  • ROVER AND DRAGONFLY IN SHIPS
  • HINT SYSTEM
  • Points of Interest
  • new Mission System.
  • Power Plants / Shield Generators / Coolers and the Heat & Power System

These are mostly just features not actual gameplay mechanics.

So you can haul cargo, dogfight a bit with pirates (but be careful because you won't get your ship back for a while if it's destroyed), do missions (?how many will be in 3.0?), loot some wrecks. Enough to keep you entertained for a few hours at most.

They seem so obsessed with creating a high fidelity universe that they've forgotten it's meant to be a game. It strikes me that they seem to be falling into the same trap as No Man's Sky who spent so much time creating a giant procedural universe that they forgot to add anything interesting to do when you actually played the game.

Well yeah, 3.0 is bare bones but their plans sound cool. I'll assume you've seen the mining and repair deep dives? Game play will be added, you know, almost as if it's an alpha or something...

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/14522-Design-Notes-Mining
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/15062-Ship-Repair-And-Maintenance
« Last Edit: July 30, 2017, 09:20:21 AM by Serendipity »

 

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