Author Topic: Star Citizen General BS  (Read 803505 times)

Serendipity

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #570 on: July 30, 2017, 09:25:44 AM »
This is a good post, heart felt and seemingly honest.

Production Schedule and 3.0 by Will "Soulcrusher" Leverett


Hi there SC fam!

Thereís been quite a bit of healthy discussion about our recent Production Schedule update, so I thought Iíd share a few thoughts and comments:

Our Production Schedule updates that you see are right out of the same software that our production team uses. No edits, no censors, no marketing spin.

Weíve created this as a service to you to keep you informed of what we are working on, with the goal of providing estimated date ranges.
As with all estimates, they can change. When venturing off into uncharted territory, one does not always see or know all of the challenges ahead of them; they are often complete unknowns until they present themselves along the way.
Weíve pushed far past the technological boundaries that were previously considered impossible to build the foundation of the Star Citizen universe. Working on 3.0 has certainly introduced variables and challenges that we could never have anticipated, and these just do not always cater to a tidy date on a calendar.

As gamers, we are conditioned to consider all dates as static points in time that we can wrap our heads around and plan for in advance. The nature of this project does not neatly fit into that mold due to the complexity of what weíre building, and with what we learn about what's possible and needed along the way. These date ranges are dynamic according to the challenges presented to us at that time, and we actively maintain that to keep you up to date.

The scope of 3.0 is not insignificant, as Chris discussed in https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link//15842-Letter-From-The-Chairman-The-Road-Ahead. It introduces a level of tech and infrastructure thatís an order of magnitude larger and more complex than all of our previous versions combined. There are thousands of new assets, millions of entities to manage, new UI, new features, multiple new backend services, etc. all being introduced in 3.0.
Integrating all of this has revealed to be MUCH more of a bug fixing project than anticipated, which obviously reshapes those estimates and changes those dates. Hammering in a level of polish that weíve not aimed for before requires an additional adjustment of dates.

Thereís certainly no malice behind it, and anyone who makes that claim is providing an uninformed opinion. Ask any project manager or developer who worked on sophisticated software or has been involved on a complex project with lots of dependencies and moving parts. They'll gladly share how challenging a task of estimates can be.
The heroic efforts of those creating and maintaining the Production Schedule should be commended. They represent our efforts to keep up with this complex and ever evolving ecosystem, and work tirelessly to keep you up to date through regular sweat and tears (and I think I saw blood once). Itís its own massive behemoth of a project, and they do it each week for you.  

It's just not in our DNA to hold updates and content back. We simply donít do that. When itís ready for primetime, itís out the door for you to enjoy.

Itís also important to consider that what 3.0 meant a year ago is a shadow of what 3.0 means today. Back then, Planetary Tech would have offered a fraction of the freedom that it does in 3.0, and most of the numerous infrastructure updates going into it now did not exist. [WL: Edited previous sentence for clarity] Roughly speaking, the approach was that weíd be able to deliver four roughly built, predetermined, pre-scripted, landing zones. The reality is that those would have been rather limited, and ultimately, somewhat of a variation of what Area 18 ArcCorp is today in terms of features and functionality.

Today, 3.0 is about delivering an entirely explorable solar system with the backend services to make it dynamic. Itís about giving us the city and planet building tools to create for you the rest of the universe in an intelligent, scalable, efficient, and compelling manner. Itís about the first step in giving you the tools to create player outposts and communities. Itís about the streaming tech to allow you to take off from one moon, fly across the system, and land on an entirely different moon, the driving a freaking sweet buggy out of the back of your ship to race around the entire planet... all without a loading screen. Itís about giving you the ability to buy whatís on the web inside kiosks. Itís about usable turret gameplay, and Items 2.0 so you can customize your own ship with new components. Itís about picking objects and cargo so you can haul commodities across space as a trader and merchant. Itís about gutting a singleplayer engine to support thousands of players. Itís about infrastructure that we needed to develop because there are no off-the-shelf solutions for building an immersive experience like no other.

And thatís just part of what's in 3.0!

The entire company is working feverishly to get you 3.0. Our goal is to provide you with the most amazing gaming experience ever. Weíve learned that we can deliver something better than the original 3.0, something bigger, something pretty groundbreaking, something magnificent.

That doesnít always keep to a schedule, but we think itís ok to take the time to do it right.  

Happy Sunday everyone,
Will "Soulcrusher" Leverett
Director of Player Relations

Source https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/production-schedule-and-3-0
« Last Edit: July 30, 2017, 09:46:03 AM by Serendipity »

Motto

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #571 on: July 30, 2017, 09:49:28 AM »
This is a good post, heart felt and seemingly honest.

 :vince:  :bravo:

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #572 on: July 30, 2017, 10:15:36 AM »
This is a good post, heart felt and seemingly honest.

LOL!! The sad part is that you're really serious.   :laugh:

ps: Admitting to increasing the scope of a project, complete with excuses and zero accountability, isn't "seemingly honest"  :bahgawd:

Meanwhile, over on Reddit...
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

Serendipity

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #573 on: July 30, 2017, 11:08:59 AM »
This is a good post, heart felt and seemingly honest.

LOL!! The sad part is that you're really serious.   :laugh:

ps: Admitting to increasing the scope of a project, complete with excuses and zero accountability, isn't "seemingly honest"  :bahgawd:

Meanwhile, over on Reddit...

Why would they need to admit to increasing the scope? That's a strange thing to say. They've mentioned the increasing scope many times.

Some have picked up on one part of the post apparently contradicting Chris but on the whole it feels like an honest bunch of words from a passionate and dedicated developer.

Some blinded by confirmation bias may see it differently I suppose. The project's a mess and unsalvageable, therefore he's lying. S-l-o-w c-l-a-p.

Karmic Cake

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #574 on: July 30, 2017, 08:27:18 PM »
Who needs a game when you get to read good, heartfelt and seemingly honest posts.

Serendipity

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #575 on: July 30, 2017, 10:20:21 PM »
Who needs a game when you get to read good, heartfelt and seemingly honest posts.

Nobody needs a game. Waiting for something special is OK for me. Lots of other games to play. I'm in no rush.

GaryII

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #576 on: July 30, 2017, 11:53:51 PM »
This is a good post, heart felt and seemingly honest.
Production Schedule and 3.0 by Will "Soulcrusher" Leverett


 Yeah, sure :D
 Only thing that works by schedule are ship sales... :D   

 

GaryII

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #577 on: July 30, 2017, 11:57:16 PM »
Who needs a game when you get to read good, heartfelt and seemingly honest posts.
Nobody needs a game.

 Yes, looking at v2.6.3 (current result after 5-6 years of dev) is clear that better is to wait forever, since game will be disappointment or average in best scenario at the end, if ever released.. 
 
         

Serendipity

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #578 on: July 31, 2017, 01:01:58 AM »
This is a good post, heart felt and seemingly honest.
Production Schedule and 3.0 by Will "Soulcrusher" Leverett


 Yeah, sure :D
 Only thing that works by schedule are ship sales... :D   

Is it a crime for a company to sell what it produces? Is anyone forced into buying? Does Chris come round my house with a gun?

Who needs a game when you get to read good, heartfelt and seemingly honest posts.
Nobody needs a game.

 Yes, looking at v2.6.3 (current result after 5-6 years of dev) is clear that better is to wait forever, since game will be disappointment or average in best scenario at the end, if ever released.. 

It's not better to wait, everyone wants the game earlier but looking at a tiny slice of what is envisioned as a barometer for the final product is short sighted at best. Let's see what 3.0 and onwards brings. Perhaps a true alpha product over pre alpha or tech demo.

Narrenbart

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #579 on: July 31, 2017, 01:14:39 AM »
It's not better to wait, everyone wants the game earlier but looking at a tiny slice of what is envisioned as a barometer for the final product is short sighted at best. Let's see what 3.0 and onwards brings. Perhaps a true alpha product over pre alpha or tech demo.
But who will pay for it, who will pay the 400+ devs all the years to come

GaryII

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #580 on: July 31, 2017, 01:27:34 AM »
It's not better to wait, everyone wants the game earlier but looking at a tiny slice of what is envisioned as a barometer for the final product is short sighted at best. Let's see what 3.0 and onwards brings. Perhaps a true alpha product over pre alpha or tech demo.
But who will pay for it, who will pay the 400+ devs all the years to come

Good question, I quess rich people, for example this SC youtuber:   


Nice setup, i guess he can easily afford to buy expensive ships every year, too..


My prediction currently is: that whales will accept v3.0 as enough "progress" and continue to give them money, so they will survive till 2018...   
« Last Edit: July 31, 2017, 01:50:17 AM by GaryII »

GaryII

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #581 on: July 31, 2017, 01:35:47 AM »
Is it a crime for a company to sell what it produces? Is anyone forced into buying? Does Chris come round my house with a gun?

 Its not a crime, but they definitely have very dishonest marketing practices like this:

Ė Week A: delay critical tasks, add a few fluff tasks, do not delay overall launch prediction. Sales are usually held during these weeks.
Ė Week B: close a few fluff tasks to convey an image of progress, delay the overall launch prediction for two weeks

 So in the end they are exploiting people who are irresponsible with their money...and I personally don't like that...             


Serendipity

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #582 on: July 31, 2017, 03:14:44 AM »
It's not better to wait, everyone wants the game earlier but looking at a tiny slice of what is envisioned as a barometer for the final product is short sighted at best. Let's see what 3.0 and onwards brings. Perhaps a true alpha product over pre alpha or tech demo.
But who will pay for it, who will pay the 400+ devs all the years to come

Funding continues. 3.0 release, Gamescom, citizencon and Squadron 42 will provide many more millions. They'll be ok for a while yet.

Is it a crime for a company to sell what it produces? Is anyone forced into buying? Does Chris come round my house with a gun?

 Its not a crime, but they definitely have very dishonest marketing practices like this:

Ė Week A: delay critical tasks, add a few fluff tasks, do not delay overall launch prediction. Sales are usually held during these weeks.
Ė Week B: close a few fluff tasks to convey an image of progress, delay the overall launch prediction for two weeks

 So in the end they are exploiting people who are irresponsible with their money...and I personally don't like that...             



What you're suggesting has no basis in fact. You're just parroting Derek's malicious agenda with no evidence that's intentional deceit. Read the post I pasted from Will Leverett. Read the caveats from the schedule itself.

Do you really think backers pre purchase based on estimated completion dates of individual components?

"Oh look, they've nearly completed volumetric fog, imma gonna buy a freelancer now" said no-one, ever.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2017, 03:16:35 AM by Serendipity »

N0mad

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #583 on: July 31, 2017, 03:39:38 AM »

What you're suggesting has no basis in fact. You're just parroting Derek's malicious agenda with no evidence that's intentional deceit. Read the post I pasted from Will Leverett. Read the caveats from the schedule itself.

Wow, this thread is entertaining - I can't wait for Derek's response now.

I guess the main allegation is whether or not CIG are intentionally deceiving their backers. Answers on a postcard...

GaryII

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #584 on: July 31, 2017, 03:39:47 AM »

 Ė Week A: delay critical tasks, add a few fluff tasks, do not delay overall launch prediction. Sales are usually held during these weeks.
 Ė Week B: close a few fluff tasks to convey an image of progress, delay the overall launch prediction for two weeks

 What you're suggesting has no basis in fact. You're just parroting Derek's malicious agenda with no evidence that's intentional deceit.
 Read the post I pasted from Will Leverett. Read the caveats from the schedule itself.


  That Week A and Week B observation is NOT from Derek, originally it was posted by some backer in CIG forums...

  At this point their "schedule" are pointless, it exists only to calm down backers to show some ongoing "progress"...

  In general they have huge management issues starting from top - CR is already known for NOT delivering in time and on budget (Freelancer..)..so here is high change that history will repeat itself...

1)  Pre-Alfa already shows some strange attempts to reinvent the Wheel - head bobbing lol that all the time "jumping" radar...
2)  Some ships with bad cockpit views...I guess they are not designed for humans to fly...
3) overcomplicated  ships designs for "MMO" (where you need to keep things simple to have descent performance) that game engine can not handle even in offline mode...because they are using engine that was designed for single player FPS :D     

 so best possible outcome - average game with strange design decisions and performance issues..   

Probably game will be forever in alfa until funding stops...

 

   
« Last Edit: July 31, 2017, 03:44:47 AM by GaryII »

 

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