Author Topic: Star Citizen General BS  (Read 804530 times)

Motto

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #825 on: August 10, 2017, 05:52:06 AM »
Ssst, or you invoke The Bishop!  :supaburn:

N0mad

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #826 on: August 10, 2017, 05:52:11 AM »
I have the feeling that Serendipity is saving up for one of his extra long posts   :siren:  :argh:

nightfire

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #827 on: August 10, 2017, 12:17:21 PM »
I came back from a 1 month holiday, and saw that there are 10+pages on the thread. I was so happy that there are so many things to read, but there were like 5 decent posts.
You too? I was away for only one week recently, and it took me two evenings to catch up!  :yikes:

Serendipity

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #828 on: August 11, 2017, 01:58:16 AM »
Serendipity says he believes everything Chris says and you can't prove he's lying.

This is not a debate because Serendipity never provides any evidence for why he believes CIG and CRoberts are trustworthy in the face of all the evidence to the contrary. He simply states that his opinion is he believes them and will patiently wait for the game.

That's all well and good, but there's really nothing more to be debated there.

I've never said any such thing. The evidence of them making a game and making progress is visible in AtV every week. I've never said that they're trustworthy but I have mentioned them coming up with the goods before. Remember when I said in this very thread that they said we'd get AC and we did. They said we'd get 2.0 and we did. They said we'd get Star Marine and, massive screw up and re do included, we did. They say we'll get 3.0 and I believe we will because history proves them to be true in delivering stuff they say they will.

It might take more time than expected and they may move around exactly what's included but we get it.

I see no reason for this to change. I don't blindly believe what Chris says. Stop making things up. I also do provide evidence for my comments, if you forget about it, that's not my problem. Evidence of completing prior milestones is evidence enough for me, especially combined with seeing 3.0 working in videos and presentations.

Any evidence they can't do what they say they can?

Padrepapp

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #829 on: August 11, 2017, 02:15:14 AM »
It might take more time than expected and they may move around exactly what's included but we get it.

You can't be serious with this. Every SC release (including the gutted 3.0) sounds like this.

Hey I will give you a camera which has HD, USB connection, and 60fps. You will get it at the end of 2016.

1 year later: Sorry for the delay, here is your camera, it is not what we said it would be, it has no HD, no USB connection, and the framerate is only 24fps, but here it is. It was a really big work with new hightech innovations, so you should be happy for your 24fps.

N0mad

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #830 on: August 11, 2017, 02:27:35 AM »
Any evidence they can't do what they say they can?

https://starcitizentracker.github.io/

Um, it's taken them nearly 5 years, 4 studios and $150 million to get to 16% of what they originally promised.

What more evidence do you require?
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 02:31:36 AM by N0mad »

nightfire

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #831 on: August 11, 2017, 02:41:18 AM »
What more evidence do you require?

Uhm, let me guess… he will argue that this is no „evidence“ to begin with. That, yes, delays have happened before, but that this does not mean anything for the final outcome. That the tracker clearly shows that actual progress is being made all the time. That other AAA games took an eternity of time and millions of money to make as well, without being chastised for it. And that Derek’s games are no better than CIG’s.

But then again, I could be wrong  :smugjones:

Spunky Munkee

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #832 on: August 11, 2017, 03:27:39 AM »
While comparing Space Resident to these other titles that had rough development cycles or lengthy delays these cultists never seem to mention the fact that regardless of the length of development the game still costs the same to the consumer, and the creator is not asking you to pay for the product sight unseen years before the product is finished. I think this is a key element when looking at why Space Resident has been so highly criticized.

I know that the typical comeback is I only paid $45 so I don't care what happens, or
Regardless of the price I paid I am proud to have supported Chris and this groundbreaking project ( the worst kind of cultist. They cannot be reached. I think they are the Kamakaze cultists, true believers, unflappable)

Yes, some games take a long time to complete and have multiple setbacks but we can just look at the history of HOW MANY delays there have been, HOW MANY TIMES have they announced release dates and then changed them. It clearly shows a pattern. Only two conclusions can be drawn here.

Either Chris Roberts is a complete fabricator of his "truth". He just makes up dates to suit his needs regardless of what the evidence would indicate. I'm sure he has lots of meetings, with lots of doughnuts to pass around where they will tell him truthfully where he is in the project but because he likes to keep the whales and other cultists wallets wide open he tells them whatever he thinks will keep the donations flowing. To this end he will make videos and feed information and stock internal footage to various You Tube content creators (and feed them a steady diet of JPEGS for them to sell on the side as payment). With a consumate bullshit artist at the head of a corporation that is wholly and completely dependent on the good will and trust of its supporters, there is a great deal to be concerned with. Should the Cultists realize that they are being lead about by the Pied Piper they will withdraw support, and the project would grind to a close in short order.

Or Chris Roberts is an incompetent boob who has no business tying his own shoes, let alone managing $157 million dollar video game project. If this is the case and I were still a backer I would be very concerned that the project cannot reach a positive conclusion.

As the truth would have it, one condition does not necessarily exclude the other. Chris Roberts may be an incompetent project manager lacking the ability to tie his own shoes or manage this project, there is sufficient evidence to support this conclusion by looking back at the problematic and mismanaged development of Freelancer/ the production of the abysmal Wing Commander movie. Two failures proving that he is incapable of multi tasking and getting good results.
We can also look at the Freelancer project and Space Resident and see that he has no problem with fabricating schedules when it suits his needs. Surely we cannot actually believe that there was sufficient internal feedback from his separate department leads to merit his overly optimistic assessments that would justify claiming he would release 3.0 in December. Then he claimed it would be released early summer, and several times after that. He had to know, but he also knew that donations were way down, and that he was about to take out a second loan(with no more loans available).
So CIG fabricates schedules to keep donations coming in and maintain some hope that the game might come out one day, if they keep feeding him cash. It amazes me how people actually believe that CIG took 2 loans but did not need the money. How can we believe they don't need the money when Roberts told a recent interviewer that he lacks the funds to build the servers once the game is finished. Somehow ample reserves and lacking funds do not fit together in the same corporation. Fit that with we didn't need that loan, or the second loan and you have to wonder what fantasy land the cultists live in.

As always, time will tell. If he pulls the rabbit from the hat. makes 3.0 somehow work smoothly enough, if he can overcome his own self created negative image he might survive another year. That does not guarantee he will deliver what hew initially promised. It simply buys him time, to collect more money and fabricate more schedules.

StanTheMan

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #833 on: August 11, 2017, 04:21:00 AM »
Any evidence they can't do what they say they can?

https://starcitizentracker.github.io/

Um, it's taken them nearly 5 years, 4 studios and $150 million to get to 16% of what they originally promised.

What more evidence do you require?

To be fair .. It seems to me that he and a lot of Backers dont care beyond .. can CR deliver something substantially sold sometime in the next 3-5 years ?

With an extra expectation that what is delivered would also be fun to play and result in an ongoing game as opposed to a game that is shut down through lack of interest.

On a superficial analysis it isnt an unreasonable position to have.  Add a lot of faith, confirmation bias and more detailed analysis of the facts - and here we are.

As long a CIG is still here saying they are producing the game and churning out something now and then, sales appear to be raising revenue etc ... thats all the evidence they require and it doesnt matter what evidence is put up in opposition to that,, they are going to ignore it.



« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 04:25:14 AM by StanTheMan »

Serendipity

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #834 on: August 11, 2017, 04:26:32 AM »
It might take more time than expected and they may move around exactly what's included but we get it.

You can't be serious with this. Every SC release (including the gutted 3.0) sounds like this.

Hey I will give you a camera which has HD, USB connection, and 60fps. You will get it at the end of 2016.

1 year later: Sorry for the delay, here is your camera, it is not what we said it would be, it has no HD, no USB connection, and the framerate is only 24fps, but here it is. It was a really big work with new hightech innovations, so you should be happy for your 24fps.

You do understand that an alpha isn't a finished product don't you? The way the game is now isn't how it will stay? Additions to content can and will be made? Terrible, terrible analogy.

Any evidence they can't do what they say they can?

https://starcitizentracker.github.io/

Um, it's taken them nearly 5 years, 4 studios and $150 million to get to 16% of what they originally promised.

What more evidence do you require?

Nope. The fact they haven't done it yet is not evidence they can't do it. It took human beings a couple hundred thousand years to make a flying machine. The Wright brothers created in their lifetime what no other human had done in a quarter million years or so. I'd bet they were told it couldn't be done too.

Something something LoD, something something AAA games, something something there you go n0mad.

Padrepapp

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #835 on: August 11, 2017, 04:41:43 AM »
Sorry, english is my second language, but is "Serenstupidity" a word? Just wondering...

The game as is now is not much different than what it was 2 years ago, and 3.0 won't do shit either. So many features are lacking, it won't even be a good milestone to say: "You see, we have all the core systems we need to complete the game". It will be just another failed patch.

Comparing this project to the Wright brothers is just GOLD. But if you insist, could you please list ALL the projects that were said it could not be done, and as it turned out, it really wasn't possible at that time? I think we remember the Wright brothers (and other big achievers) because they succeeded. Millions failed in the meantime.

Chris Roberts is failing also (for 20 years in a row). They have not delivered (and nor planning to in the near future) ANYTHING, that could be considered special.

GaryII

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #836 on: August 11, 2017, 04:45:34 AM »
Nope. The fact they haven't done it yet is not evidence they can't do it. It took human beings a couple hundred thousand years to make a flying machine.

  So see you all after 20-25 years when SC releases in year 2040 maybe...
  btw CR by then will be about 70 years old...

  Also I hope SC backers are very patient and also have enough money to support this game till 2040...

 I am 100 % sure that biggest Star Marine fan  WTFOSaurus would not survive till 2040
 
 ..common its only 2017 now you can do better...  ;)

 Jokes aside, I see that this game is Freelancer 2.0 - history just repeats itself - people (CR) does not change especially after age of 40.. 

 Best scenario for SC - MVP is average game with a lot of features missing/broken..bad performance even with 10 players online...         

Very good thing is that PU is playable offline:

so backers can continue to dreamcraft even after project is dead if its fails...
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 04:53:17 AM by GaryII »

Knight Solaire

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #837 on: August 11, 2017, 04:56:56 AM »
Any evidence they can't do what they say they can?

There is plenty of evidence that they can't deliver on their promises. Their record of broken promises and missed deadlines, rolled-back or just thrown-out features has been covered over and over here by Derek and others.

To me (yes, just my opinion), this makes any future promises they make untrustworthy and their motivations for making promises extremely suspect. They have proven that they can't deliver on the promises they make and those promises tend to be made around the time some big new ship sale goes up. This is the kind of behavior from them that I find sickening and needs to stop.

If CIG are indeed sincere about their desire to simply make a great game, then stop taking money (they don't need it according to Chris), stop going to trade shows, stop doing stupid YouTube videos and just get it done.

N0mad

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #838 on: August 11, 2017, 05:15:16 AM »
The fact they haven't done it yet is not evidence they can't do it.
This isn't logic, it's faith. 

Science doesn't operate on vague hopes it works based on experimental proof & reason. So let's do the maths:

Let's assume that all the goals in the Tracker take the same amount of time and resources to create, therefore with 16% progress so far it will take CIG:
  • 26 more years and...
  • $787 million more in funding
I'm not saying it's impossible to do all they set out to do, plenty of other Games are doing similar things. However, based on the facts we have to hand, it would seem highly unlikely.

Serendipity

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Re: Star Citizen - The Game
« Reply #839 on: August 11, 2017, 05:15:41 AM »
Sorry, english is my second language, but is "Serenstupidity" a word? Just wondering...

The game as is now is not much different than what it was 2 years ago, and 3.0 won't do shit either. So many features are lacking, it won't even be a good milestone to say: "You see, we have all the core systems we need to complete the game". It will be just another failed patch.

Comparing this project to the Wright brothers is just GOLD. But if you insist, could you please list ALL the projects that were said it could not be done, and as it turned out, it really wasn't possible at that time? I think we remember the Wright brothers (and other big achievers) because they succeeded. Millions failed in the meantime.

Chris Roberts is failing also (for 20 years in a row). They have not delivered (and nor planning to in the near future) ANYTHING, that could be considered special.

3.0 won't do shit? You're serious? Seamless space to planet in cryengine isn't anything special huh? Blinded.

I wasn't comparing Star Citizen to the Wright brothers, that would be stupid, it was an example of how just because something hasn't been done yet doesn't mean it can't be done.

If you think SC isn't doing anything special then that's up to you. Derek seems to think it's impossible to do what they're doing. Space SIM fans have given 155 million dollars for this nothing special.  Each to their own I suppose.

Only time will tell if they succeed or not.

Any evidence they can't do what they say they can?

There is plenty of evidence that they can't deliver on their promises. Their record of broken promises and missed deadlines, rolled-back or just thrown-out features has been covered over and over here by Derek and others.

To me (yes, just my opinion), this makes any future promises they make untrustworthy and their motivations for making promises extremely suspect. They have proven that they can't deliver on the promises they make and those promises tend to be made around the time some big new ship sale goes up. This is the kind of behavior from them that I find sickening and needs to stop.

If CIG are indeed sincere about their desire to simply make a great game, then stop taking money (they don't need it according to Chris), stop going to trade shows, stop doing stupid YouTube videos and just get it done.

You think a company should stop generating sales? Do you realise how daft that sounds? They need a regular income to be a viable business. Without income they don't get rental leases or other lines of credit, with suppliers for example. Any company in the world that is making money will continue to do what is making them money. This is the real world and you don't stop selling as long as people aren't stopping buying.

They've proven over and over again that they will deliver what they say they will, once again the list of major milestones, AC, 2.0, planet side, Star Marine...3.0? Delays don't mean they lied or are incompetent. It's game development, delays are standard.

 

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