Author Topic: Star Citizen Breaking News  (Read 224135 times)

Flashwit

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Re: Star Citizen - Breaking News
« Reply #165 on: December 14, 2017, 09:46:26 AM »
After reading through that lawsuit document I don't see what CIG can do, the charges look pretty open and shut to me. You have to wonder what kind of defense strategy they could muster.

I know that Crytek wouldn't want to have taken legal action lightly but you wonder why they didn't act sooner as there was always a danger that the CIG $ would run out.

It's understandable. Unless a company is something like a patent troll, using a lawsuit to fix an issue is generally a last resort.
When I used to own a condo there were some issues with the electrical and metering between the residential and commercial parts of the building. The condo association knew of these issues for a long time and kept pushing on the contractor and insurer responsible for this. It wasn't until the last second that they resorted to legal means.

Lawsuits sucks for everyone.

AncoGaming

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Re: Star Citizen - Breaking News
« Reply #166 on: December 14, 2017, 09:51:08 AM »
You know it's gonna be fun when a PR disaster makes BBC News. Last time that happened to CIG/RSI isn't long ago either. They better be working on their next "we're so sorry" video like last year and name it "Road to CryEngine".  :laugh:

DemonInvestor

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Re: Star Citizen - Breaking News
« Reply #167 on: December 14, 2017, 10:32:50 AM »
After reading through that lawsuit document I don't see what CIG can do, the charges look pretty open and shut to me. You have to wonder what kind of defense strategy they could muster.

I know that Crytek wouldn't want to have taken legal action lightly but you wonder why they didn't act sooner as there was always a danger that the CIG $ would run out.

It's understandable. Unless a company is something like a patent troll, using a lawsuit to fix an issue is generally a last resort.
When I used to own a condo there were some issues with the electrical and metering between the residential and commercial parts of the building. The condo association knew of these issues for a long time and kept pushing on the contractor and insurer responsible for this. It wasn't until the last second that they resorted to legal means.

Lawsuits sucks for everyone.

Lawsuits suck for everyone.
Threatening someone with the believable threat of a lawsuit doesn't though. It depends on the costs of said threat in comparison to what you can gain by it though.
So far i wouldn't see the whole thing as more than a threat. And how serious said threat is, well i don't know - depends on the actual contracts and behaviour. Naturally it looks bad for CIG so far, as we've only got CryTeks account on the whole thing. Though it sounds logical so far...

That said, it's real bad publicity for CryTek and seems to be more of another minor nuissance for CIG as their fans are vaccinated against critcism and bad news already.

Motto

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Re: Star Citizen - Breaking News
« Reply #168 on: December 14, 2017, 12:45:25 PM »
The fact that is has come to this, is why it is so bad. If CIG could have avoided the lawsuit, they would have. So by not being able to come to terms with CryTek, they showed the world how bad their shape actually is.

dsmart

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« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 03:49:38 PM by dsmart »
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

AncoGaming

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Re: Star Citizen - Breaking News
« Reply #170 on: December 14, 2017, 12:50:17 PM »
All I can say is that every single thread about the issue got deleted by moderators on Sprectrum, probably people have been banned over it, too.

So in house, you're not allowed to discuss it because apparently we're not a community of sane people (shut up, you know what I mean) and are only allowed to dream up new features and read Q/A threads for new concepts.

It's like covering eyes and ears of a child and keep singing when a mean accident happens across the street. Ridiculous! Reddit is around the corner, every comment section of any gaming related outlet is packed and backers are hardly allowed to discuss why binding the ALT key with freelook is a shitty idea (hint, you lose control of you ship whenever you ALT/TAB).

And even then the whitest of knights migrate to these comment section and bash CryTek for possibly ruining StarCitizen, the "most anticipated game since 10 years and for years to come), I am not making this up! It says, CryTek will piss off gamers all over the world. Oh really? Like, they've signed contracts and agreements, CIG/RSI plays deaf when it comes to man up or pay up, after many inquiries beforehand, with their company almost totally ruined CryTek says enough is enough and gets a case filed in California no less, where it's not that easy to not get such claims dismissed immediately.

But of course, CryTek should have said: Oh well... all those poor gamers whose money will not go into development... we'll just sit there with our thumbs up or ass and let it slide, Chris' vision and those precious backers, man, totally worth it. Well, without our work and dedication not a single tech demo of StarCitizen would have ever seen the light of day, but hey, aren't we all a big family?

Yes, the gaming industry is a big family, but not a cozy one, more like the Sopranos mixed with the Adams'. 

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - Breaking News
« Reply #171 on: December 14, 2017, 01:04:58 PM »
Yes, it is to be expected. That's how an echo chamber hug box works. You didn't really think this shit written here was going to be upheld, did you?



The bottom line is that, nobody cares about CryTek's problems or faults. Only the Citizen Defense Force do.

Regardless anyone's personal opinions about them, CryTek have every reason to protect their IP and enforce a contract. That's all there is to this.

Further, without CryTek and CryEngine, there would be no Star Citizen. Period. So if there is a contract that says they should haven't benefited from the windfall etc, then that's value they have lost and which they are entitled to as per their claim.

Hilariously, I remember back in 2015 when I was writing that CryTek built the demo, trailers etc, and CDF were saying it was bullshit, and CIG/RSI never confirmed it. Now it's confirmed as fact in the legal filing.

At the end of the day, CryTek has been trying to resolve this for years. Says so right there in the filing. They sued because CIG probably called their bluff.

And anyone who thinks that hiring a firm like Skadden, is tantamount to a quick payday for a few hundred thousand bucks settlement, is a moron. We're talking millions here. And the funding chart is going to play into that because that's the metric showing what CIG/RSI claims to have raised, and CryTek was instrumental in them getting there.

I am fully expecting this to either get settled before discovery, or CIG/RSI folds. Discovery is going to be an absolute embarrassment for them which could also open them to additional causes of action in the lawsuit. Not to mention revealing just how much money they really raised.

This is a big fucking deal, and we'll see how they respond within the 20 day time limit they now have. Either way, Ortwin already gave them what many believe to be an early win in their response to the media.
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

AncoGaming

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Re: Star Citizen - Breaking News
« Reply #172 on: December 14, 2017, 01:45:06 PM »
"Yes, it is to be expected. That's how an echo chamber hug box works. You didn't really think this shit written here was going to be upheld, did you?"

I haven't been a backer when this came along, I think. I came in pretty late, only bought flyable ships, still have fun with most of them, enjoy the view, the dogfights and violence even if I lose and openly mention what I can't stand as any reasonable, sane person would do and is, in my opinion, entitled to say without getting forcefully silenced by moderators.

I've never been banned, fair enough, but what can I do if the threads get deleted? That's passive-aggressive banning in my view, but I digress.   

In this thread, we're not talking about opinions. We're not talking about being a fan or not. Thank god!

We're talking about a cold, hard case which even I know shouldn't be taken lightly.

"And anyone who thinks that hiring a firm like Skadden, is tantamount to a quick payday for a few hundred thousand bucks settlement, is a moron. We're talking millions here. And the funding chart is going to play into that because that's the metric showing what CIG/RSI claims to have raised, and CryTek was instrumental in them getting there."

Yes, Sir. Some people get mislead by a single number. 75.000$. I did my homework and now know that this is kind of a door opening, minimum ammount to not get the case dismissed in California, probably because otherwise everyone would drag their plumber to court because some pipes weren't polished, I don't know. However, this number is symbolic for the fact that now the good times are over and has nothing to do with the numbers which can and will pop up when it comes to a settlement.

And if there'll be no settlement, RSI/CIG better have some ground to stand on and sue CryTek because every other action would make them look like they've just been cought with their hand in the cookie jar.

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - Breaking News
« Reply #173 on: December 14, 2017, 01:52:09 PM »
$75K is the minimum threshold for a case to be moved to Federal court. In all filings, they have to state that what they are claiming, even if it's $76K or $100M, exceeds that threshold.

As to the money, since CryTek is claiming that they are due monies on what the project has raised, that's what gives them an opening to gain access (via discovery) to whatever the project has raised.

It is an absolute nightmare, and the clueless Citizen Defense Force can downplay it all they want because they live in a fantasy world.
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

AncoGaming

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Re: Star Citizen - Breaking News
« Reply #174 on: December 14, 2017, 02:16:29 PM »
If it turns out that even the most harmless claim is true, namely the one where it says that all inquiries of CryTek have been met with silence from CIG/RSI, that alone tells you a lot about their business practices.

"Chris, CryTek called. Something about agreements and IP and all that."

-"Tell 'em I'm not in the country!"

"They're not from this country, Chris."

-"Well, then don't answer the phone, I'm off to Hollywood!"

"Okay, but now they're writing Emails."

-"Oh for fuck's sake, that's what a spam folder is for!"

"Alright, I'll call Erin."
*calls Erin*

"Hey Erin, It's about those guys from CryT... Erin?" *duut duut duut*

Andrew

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Re: Star Citizen - Breaking News
« Reply #175 on: December 14, 2017, 03:02:54 PM »
After reading through that lawsuit document I don't see what CIG can do, the charges look pretty open and shut to me.

Well, the post Derek quoted states that they supposedly branched off CryEngine at the exact same time as Amazon. Amazon on the other hand owns whatever CryEngine core they use. So my guess would be that they will claim that everything they have now is Lumberyard. Looks like they really tried to pull the rug out under Crytek here - probably in light of their financial troubles they wanted to get away from them, got wind of the Amazon deal and prepared the switch.

Not sure how locked in they are by their agreement with Crytek. Is it really so tight that say if they had found (as they did, in a way) that their game can not be built with CryEngine that they still would have to stick with it?

This makes the whole Lumberyard-Switch and the "we did it in 2 days"-thing appear in a different light as well, does it not? The statement was ridiculed at the time but maybe it was a lie that was somehow necessary to pull this U-turn on Crytek (for example because the real timeline would get them in legal-trouble)?

AncoGaming

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Re: Star Citizen - Breaking News
« Reply #176 on: December 14, 2017, 03:19:02 PM »
Are you implying that CIG outright LIED to their fanbase? Now, that's something unheard of, how dare you?

Anyway, I'm pretty sure it all boils down to the fine print in contracts and/or agreements between CIG/RSI and CryTek and respective rights/claims that follow from that which were or weren't upheld. The fact that a lawfirm, which has built up a certain reputation, will not let 4 of their best bloodsuckers go into court without doing their homework and being almost sure to make some serious dough and the reaction of CIG/RSI (pissing their pants infront of their own backers, shutting everyone up) leads me to think that there, in fact, is a case no matter what our opinion of it might be.

AncoGaming

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Re: Star Citizen - Breaking News
« Reply #177 on: December 14, 2017, 03:43:32 PM »
Talking about opinions...

My opinion is that CIG/RSI used backer money, millions of crowd funded $ which were suppused to go into game development, to buy a lot of expensive real estate, split it up between many companies which only exist as a mailbox somewhere, then went to the bank, put a loan on it so they don't have any "revenue". In other words, I've backed for some guy's tax evasion, on paper these companies own nothing and can't be liable for anything. As long as there is constant cash flow, everything's fine.

If the cash flow stops, banks don't get their interest, seize the real estate instead, companies go belly up and all the money is gone. Backers are screwed, tax payers are screwed, employees are screwed and Chris sails off into the sunset unharmed while dreaming of his next big vision and what to do with his bank accounts from Cyprus, the Caiman Islands, Isle of Man and maybe Switzerland.

At least that's how it could have been planned. Be a shame if some attorneys were to dig deeply into every transaction because their clients have some undisputable claims.

Kyrt

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Re: Star Citizen - Breaking News
« Reply #178 on: December 14, 2017, 04:33:52 PM »
Well, the post Derek quoted states that they supposedly branched off CryEngine at the exact same time as Amazon. Amazon on the other hand owns whatever CryEngine core they use. So my guess would be that they will claim that everything they have now is Lumberyard. Looks like they really tried to pull the rug out under Crytek here - probably in light of their financial troubles they wanted to get away from them, got wind of the Amazon deal and prepared the switch.

They can try to claim that everything they have is now LumberYard

BUT - a lot of their code still seems to be CryEngine, or derived from that.
More, even if they successfully argued that, they can only do so by admitting that they are in breach of contract...namely, the exclusivity aspect.

As it is, the engine they are using today appears to be the customised version of CryEngine they renamed StarEngine....which itself proves the complaint regarding lack of promotion...combined with a few modules from LumberYard, likely dealing with AWS...remember them boasting that they'd kept all their derived custom code intact? That'd still be "part of " CryEngine.

CryTek seems to have them in a vice here....they can perhaps argue against some complaints, but only by admitting to others.


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Not sure how locked in they are by their agreement with Crytek. Is it really so tight that say if they had found (as they did, in a way) that their game can not be built with CryEngine that they still would have to stick with it?

I would say that is a distinct possibility and it would explain whey Chris Roberts made the hugely stupid decision to stick with CryEngine despite its lack of suitability for an MMO.

It doesn't excuse his move to LumberYard, which was also banned by the same GLA, or his decision to switch genres anyway.

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This makes the whole Lumberyard-Switch and the "we did it in 2 days"-thing appear in a different light as well, does it not? The statement was ridiculed at the time but maybe it was a lie that was somehow necessary to pull this U-turn on Crytek (for example because the real timeline would get them in legal-trouble)?

I'd be prepared to believe the two days. Ben Parry, IIRC, was the dev who basically admitted all CIG did was switch logos and copy over some of Lumberyards networking modules. It's why recent (I think) photos of SC code still lists it as being compiled with CryEngine.

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - Breaking News
« Reply #179 on: December 14, 2017, 05:27:23 PM »
That's why you have professional firms that do code analysis and forensics. It's not a big deal to prove these things. Heck, the last biggest case in this regard, was the same infringement type case in Zenimax v Oculus which these same attorneys at Skadden won $500M from. And that wasn't a settlement. They went to trial, and won the award.

Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

 

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