Author Topic: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within  (Read 253135 times)

Spunky Munkee

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #90 on: August 23, 2017, 09:26:56 PM »
I tried posting a few things over at the SC reddit pages. They clearly do not believe in the free exchange of ideas. I think they managed to lock me out.

All I wanted to say was that the posters over there SHOULD buy as much Star Citizen as they could, entreat their friends and family to do so as well. That they were exactly the kind of people that Chris Roberts wants supporting his project.

Oh well. I think the lovely souls I chatted with will continue to support the project so all is well with the world.

So Chris Roberts lacks the balls to face the music? He wont bother to show up and have shoes thrown at him? He does not want any more videos of his excuses out there? Amazing. Could there be any clearer message to the backers than this? I think not.

 Coward.

Andrew

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #91 on: August 24, 2017, 12:42:53 AM »
So Chris Roberts lacks the balls to face the music? He wont bother to show up and have shoes thrown at him?

Sometimes this board gets totally delusional in it's fantasies of chaos and doom while at the same time laughing about the (potential) delusions of others. :D Like Derek correctly said: There is no way Chris Roberts will not be on stage come friday unless he is hospitalized. There is also no way he even gets lightly booed unless he comes on stage and says "I consider 2.6.3 the final release - thanks guys!". I'm also still willing to bet they will show a SQ42 trailer of some sort. They have demonstrated the ability to make some cool ship-commercials - they can make a SQ42-Trailer that looks awesome even if their gameplay is nowhere near ready.

A bit more occam's razor would be good. For example: If they were really trying to bullshit backers would a 150+mio company not be able to fake a demo with some gameplay that lasts for 15 minutes? I'd say: they absolutely would. The fact they're showing this jigsaw-puzzle of a demo is more an indication that they are actually trying not to devote too many (read: even more) ressources into a special gamescom-fake-demo to look good but they are actually trying to show the best version of what they actually have. As Derek has stated multiple times (between bursts of polemic statements ;)): there is no malicious conscious effort to scam people here. They are trying. Derek contends they can not do it (to the full extend of their promises).

I agree that Star Citizen will cut down its list of promised features significantly at some point. I don't think the company will completely implode but they will release something that falls significantly short of the stated ambition. The whole theory the company will go belly-up rests on the assumption that they have actually blown through most of their money already. Which is possible but there is no strong evidence to support it (nor is there any evidence they are in tip-top-shape).

Long post short: I wish this board wasn't so mean-spirited and far out and trying more to really analyse the situation in a realistic manner. Derek, even while being snide, makes an effort to really support his arguments by meticulously listing reasons and sources for his prognosis. Let's have more of that. But yeah, some are just here for the lulz I get it.
(edited for typos - probably not all of them ^^)
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 12:44:34 AM by Andrew »

GaryII

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #92 on: August 24, 2017, 01:27:51 AM »
A bit more occam's razor would be good. For example: If they were really trying to bullshit backers would a 150+mio company not be able to fake a demo with some gameplay that lasts for 15 minutes? I'd say: they absolutely would. The fact they're showing this jigsaw-puzzle of a demo is more an indication that they are actually trying not to devote too many (read: even more) ressources into a special gamescom-fake-demo to look good but they are actually trying to show the best version of what they actually have. As Derek has stated multiple times (between bursts of polemic statements ;)): there is no malicious conscious effort to scam people here. They are trying.

 Yes, I can agree that they are tying, but they are failing to deliver now for years...

 About scam...I am sure that CR takes out quite a lot of money from project...who knows maybe up to 20 %...so he is a millionaire now...if he was delivering promised game then its not a problem at least for me, but he is not doing it..

 After first Gamecon days, its clear that v3.0 is nowhere near ready, now I doubt even about  2017 December release, maybe only 2018 Q1 is possible now..   
   
 Derek maybe is too dramatic and relaying too much on unverified sources, but in general he is right - project has major issues.

 I doubt that SC fails in 2017, maybe in 2018, but it depends how whales will rate current v.3.0 progress..if sales are successful then I guess they can survive 2017 and maybe even 2018...   

N0mad

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #93 on: August 24, 2017, 01:46:52 AM »
Long post short: I wish this board wasn't so mean-spirited and far out and trying more to really analyse the situation in a realistic manner.

We're pretty realistic here. Realistically 150 million dollars and 5 years should result in a game being released. It hasn't - and CIG have the cheek to keep selling ships.

N0mad

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #94 on: August 24, 2017, 03:57:41 AM »
The livestream is going a bit better today. Within the first hour they've glitched right out of the Ursa rover whilst trying to get in the seat. There have been random flames appearing in the air, had the odd desync and managed to send a Nox straight up in the air vertically.

At least they have particle effects today and it hasn't crashed. The streamers are doing a great job considering how little there is to do in the "demo". They even seem to be having fun with the glitches.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 04:10:19 AM by N0mad »

Motto

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #95 on: August 24, 2017, 04:07:39 AM »
So Chris Roberts lacks the balls to face the music? He wont bother to show up and have shoes thrown at him?
Sometimes this board gets totally delusional

Correct! Your posting is the very first delusional opinion about Scam Citizen. After all the posts from Serendipity of course.

If you actually believe what you wrote, by all means, give your money to Chris. It'll be well spent. On my amusement  :woop:

dsmart

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #96 on: August 24, 2017, 05:22:30 AM »
A bit more occam's razor would be good. For example: If they were really trying to bullshit backers would a 150+mio company not be able to fake a demo with some gameplay that lasts for 15 minutes? I'd say: they absolutely would. The fact they're showing this jigsaw-puzzle of a demo is more an indication that they are actually trying not to devote too many (read: even more) ressources into a special gamescom-fake-demo to look good but they are actually trying to show the best version of what they actually have.

Wot? They've been called out numerous times for creating special R&D bullshit to mislead backers. The biggest was in GamesCom/CitizenCon last year. And there was a major fallout. Why would they do that again?

Also, when you think about it, even this GC2017 presentation is almost the same thing because not only is it NOT the actual full 3.0 game build, but it's also specific parts they claimed to have culled out and restricted (for ludicrous reasons). So unless and until 3.0 is released, and backers are playing what they are currently seeing at GC2017, there is no way of knowing whether or not this wasn't just another specific build they put together for the show.

This* is what I posted on SA yesterday about that.

Quote
As Derek has stated multiple times (between bursts of polemic statements ;)):

OK, that made me lol  :smuggo:

Quote
there is no malicious conscious effort to scam people here. They are trying. Derek contends they can not do it (to the full extend of their promises).

While that may be the case, and I would (in part) concede that point to some extent, it doesn't absolve them of the underlying scam tactics.

If you are telling your investors/client (in this case, backers) that you can do something, and they are funding you to do it, when you know that you can't do it, but you keep giving the impression that you can, even as you keep taking money for it, that's not only a scam, it's also fraud. That's the gist of it.

Aside from the fact that, if during the furtherance of that scam/fraud the people at the top (The Nine) got rich (as they would be, from the money spent), that also make them complicit, regardless of whether or not they were "trying" to make the game. And that's why Unjust Enrichment is the most often used cause of action in suing people who took money and didn't fulfill promises. This is the basis of which lawsuits and jail time are built. Heck, you can go to FTC or PACER right now and see a litany of tried and won cases based on less. Heck, even investors can sue company execs if they spent their money legitimately, but made bad choices that ended in a loss. This is why the SEC mandates disclosures in all investor filings so that if a company puts out projections, and they miss it, investors don't rush to sue them just because they can.

So no, it doesn't matter whether or not they are TRYING. What matters is that they deliver what they promised. So far, it's clear that they can't, and they're lying about it.

Quote
I agree that Star Citizen will cut down its list of promised features significantly at some point. I don't think the company will completely implode but they will release something that falls significantly short of the stated ambition. The whole theory the company will go belly-up rests on the assumption that they have actually blown through most of their money already. Which is possible but there is no strong evidence to support it (nor is there any evidence they are in tip-top-shape).

It will. And we will be having a different discussion, right here, when it does.

They will never - EVER - release anything that resembles a "game", let alone anything close to what they promised. You know why? Because for that to happen, they have to go from the current pre-Alpha -> Alpha -> Beta -> Release Candidate -> Release. Go ahead, and tell me with a straight face that you see them going all the way to the end of that road when, six years and $156M later, they're still in pre-Alpha in which not even 15% of what they promised has been done.

Quote
Long post short: I wish this board wasn't so mean-spirited and far out and trying more to really analyse the situation in a realistic manner. Derek, even while being snide, makes an effort to really support his arguments by meticulously listing reasons and sources for his prognosis. Let's have more of that. But yeah, some are just here for the lulz I get it.

LOL!! This is not a safe space. That's over on /r/StarCitizen or Spectrum.  :laugh:

But in all seriousness, we're all skeptics here; and most of us just got sick of the bullshit. And in my case, the only skin I have in the game is that after vilifying me incessantly, my only goal now is to nag and expose them until the final end where I am proven 100% (so far I am 99%) that they simply couldn't build the game they promised in 2012, and that they've been engaged in scam tactics in a bid to prolong it via "Fake it til you make it" doctrine.

* Over on SA..

Quote
Quote
ManofManyAliases posted:
Calm down, big boy. There is only one build. That build is locked to daymar only on a private server. If they had people playing around and quantum jumping all over the place in the full, unlocked build, no one would see each other in the play-throughs.

You know all about completing something but locking the features, right?

Newsflash. I'm a dev. And yes, I do know all about locking features, only unlocking them for testing etc.

But that's not what we're talking about here. So pay attention....

What we're talking about is a 3.0 build in which 99% of what was promised in the build, isn't being played - like right now. Instead, they have a separate CryEngine level (sphere in a box) with some ships and ground vehicles. Basically, Arena Commander on a barren rock.

If 3.0 is in ANY state to be shown, as they have said repeatedly, why was it necessary to "chop" it up and make a "demo"?

As a dev, only a fucking moron would buy that bullshit about people jumping all over the place when in fact, these past years, the very same game has been shown/played in streams - with "people playing around and quantum jumping all over the place in the full, unlocked build" - and nobody complained because, well guess what Princess, that's how large games, especially MMO games, are.

That aside from the fact that they bothered to put spawn points on Daymar. Why would they need to do that, when they could very well have left the PU intact, but just have QT from Olisar to Daymar (not even the other two planetoids)?

And as they have been touting these moons, the size, scope etc, why now would those very same features be a hindrance?



The current 2.6.3 build is more feature rich than this "3.0 demo". And the former isn't even being played at the show. It's almost as if it doesn't exist anymore, or that they're embarrassed to show/play it live.

So what's left to be seen is how much different Chris's presentation build will be on Friday. In the meantime, tomorrow Thurs, we look forward to more ganky shit.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 05:24:38 AM by dsmart »
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

dsmart

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #97 on: August 24, 2017, 05:31:05 AM »
The livestream is going a bit better today. Within the first hour they've glitched right out of the Ursa rover whilst trying to get in the seat. There have been random flames appearing in the air, had the odd desync and managed to send a Nox straight up in the air vertically.

At least they have particle effects today and it hasn't crashed. The streamers are doing a great job considering how little there is to do in the "demo". They even seem to be having fun with the glitches.

Yeah, I've been watching, and will be doing my write-up later this morning when it ends.

It's amazing to me that they're actually showing demos of a space combat game, with no space combat. They key take away from this stream, and hopefully Friday's presentation, is that 3.0 isn't anywhere near ready for release to backers, regardless of the state. And this was the 3.0 that was supposedly coming in on|before Dec 19th, 2016. I remember back when I said it didn't exist, and that Chris was blatantly lying:smugjones:

With sources telling me that it needs another 6+ months of work for it to be released outside of a dev environment and to backers, the only thing we have to do now is to see if they release it by year end, what form, and if they end up removing more things from it. If they pull the same stunt they did with 2.0, there's going to be even more of an uproar. So far, some backers either haven't noticed, or don't care that in the 08/11 schedule update, they added even more stuff to 3.0, which is guaranteed to delay it even further. And they will use those additions as a way to justify the delays.
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

Motto

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #98 on: August 24, 2017, 05:38:38 AM »
But you predicted 30 - 45 days tops, so there won't be anything left by year end?

dsmart

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #99 on: August 24, 2017, 05:51:23 AM »
But you predicted 30 - 45 days tops, so there won't be anything left by year end?

Are we talking about the 30 - 45 days from 2015, or something else? I'm confused. Got an excerpt for context?  :shrug:
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

dsmart

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #100 on: August 24, 2017, 06:40:04 AM »
Quote from: D_Smart" post="475689951
https://www.twitch.tv/gamestarde

REMINDER: Chris Roberts will give an interview today at 3:30PM / 15:30 local time(in 45 minutes) at GamestarDE Twitch stream. The Interview is in english with german translation.

**STARTING RIGHT NOW***

TOTALLY CALLED IT!!

Chris interviewed by Gamestar.de. He just confirmed what I stated months back. SQ42 is NOT being shown at GamesCom. Which means, now that we're in Aug, there is no way in hell it is getting released in 2017.

Watch the whole interview. Starts at 47:32. And someone made a transcript.



Yeah, I called this one back on May 26, 2017

Quote
SQUADRON 42 DELAYED TO 2018

As I reported* on Twitter earlier today, several sources, as they have done twice before in 2015 and 2016, have once again informed me that SQ42 is now a 2018 game. In fact, the current internal schedule shows it stretching all the way to mid-2018, and possibly beyond. The past two times that I had reported this, some people didn’t believe it. And CIG kept denying it. This Sept 2016 denial was my favorite. Both 2015 and 2016 came and went. Right up to the blatant lies that CIG told during the events (GamesCom and CitizenCon) of Q4/2016. I wrote extensively about that in my Shattered Dreams blog from Oct 2016.

Sources also tell me that they’re frantically trying to either get a preview or trailer out before the end of the year. So yeah, probably a repeat of Q4/2016 all over again.

Oh, and they have definitely chopped up the SQ42 game. I reported on this back in 2016 as well, but they have apparently stuck to the goal of releasing the once full game, into bits and pieces in order to “keep things going and raising money”. It makes perfect sense if you ask me. They know that the minute they release any “final” version of any portion of this train-wreck project, that’s it’s all over. So why not maintain the bait and switch Status Quo by splitting a full game into parts, then sell them separately? If you recall, they did that back in 2016 when they split SQ42 from Star Citizen, in order to sell it separately. Except this time, they’re going to split SQ42 even further. Which, now that I think about it, explains why you can buy that game for $15 (instead of $45) if you buy it as a bundle ($45 + $15) with Star Citizen. My God man! We’re doing it all wrong.

https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/868192690554458113

« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 07:17:26 AM by dsmart »
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

Motto

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #101 on: August 24, 2017, 07:16:02 AM »
But you predicted 30 - 45 days tops, so there won't be anything left by year end?
Are we talking about the 30 - 45 days from 2015, or something else? I'm confused. Got an excerpt for context?  :shrug:

You tweeted it August 21: http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=76.15 halfway through the page. About no more refunds.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 07:19:05 AM by Motto »

Motto

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #102 on: August 24, 2017, 07:37:22 AM »
Somebody made a summary of the interview from Gamestar with Chris Roberts

-    no Squadron 42 at Gamescom, need more polish.
-    they need still some time, but it will be worth it
-    PG Planets will be in SQ42
-    He is very proud about Planets/Moons/Asteroids
-    They are very focused on not just having planets, but also having meaningful things on them (flora/fauna/buildings/mission etc.)
-    This will also a huge step up for the exploration part
-    SQ42 character locomotion still needs work. They captured over 100 days the motion from many actors and implementing them and blending them into other animations need time.
-    They can already play some missions from start to end.
-    every mission is in production and they are progressing fast
-    Another blocker is the AI. Get the daily schedule for every crew member working is a huge undertaking.
-    All missions in SC and SQ42 are now completely using the subsumption system. That wasn't the case some time ago, but they now made the full switch.
-    Gamescom demo will be "pretty cool" - C.R.
-    On the question if someone is stopping him from adding more features: That day is when the game dies. It will always be developed and they aren't aiming for a concrete release date. You can
     buy the game now and play it and that will be always this way. But of course, he wants to get to a point where all basic functions are in and a game-loop is working fine and most people are
     happy with it.

-    Again: "Tomorrow we will show some very cool things that you might really like

And after this, people still think this is going to happen?  :vince:

The number of people that now are saying that it makes sense, 'cause GC is for SC and CC is for SQ42, is alarming. Do they actually believe that in 2 months they will be able to show progress on SQ42?  :doh:
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 07:46:33 AM by Motto »

dsmart

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #103 on: August 24, 2017, 08:01:27 AM »
But you predicted 30 - 45 days tops, so there won't be anything left by year end?
Are we talking about the 30 - 45 days from 2015, or something else? I'm confused. Got an excerpt for context?  :shrug:

You tweeted it August 21: http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=76.15 halfway through the page. About no more refunds.

I don't see any Tweet in that link. Can you post the link to the actual Tweet, so I know what you're talking about?

UPDATE:

Are you talking about this one? That's about refunds. And I'm not sure what that has to do with what you mention above.  :shrug:

https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/899657698198921217
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 08:04:10 AM by dsmart »
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

Motto

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #104 on: August 24, 2017, 08:34:07 AM »
I did assume from that tweet that the refunds would fall dry 'cause of lack of money, so that you gave CIG no more then 30-45 days remaining. If that wasn't what you had in mind, why would refunding stop within the next 30-45 days?

Oh, the GC rig specs. Sure, who doesn't have that config?



And the Q&A with Erin


    3.0's player count will be at least "what we have now" (I assume he means 24 and not 12 like in the current 3.0 demo)
    There will be a 12km station in SQ42. It's going to have an important role in the story. I think it's already been made.
    When asked about the 600i they all laughed and looked at each other, then skipped over the question. Looks like that's going to be announced tomorrow.
    The ships team has been making ships like mad. It seemed like he was hinting that the 600i + some others will be in 3.0. That seems to tie in with this: New ships Instagram teaser
    Mining will not be in 3.0, but will be the next feature in the game after cargo.
    Proper persistence will be in 3.0. Where you logout is where you will spawn back in.
    You can set your respawn point. I imagine you go to the location and then it will be an option when talking to an NPC or something so you can't just teleport across the system.
    Complete network rework for 3.0. They're in the process of converting the gameplay systems over to make it all work.
    Seems like 2.6.3 had a memory leak which made the server performance degrade over time.
    You can 'link' quantum drive in 3.0, meaning that you can quantum travel with your friends.
    The more expensive the ship, the longer wait time for insurance
    You can buy ships in 3.0 (Not 3.0, but possibly 3.1) with aUEC.
    They working on min of 30 server ticks for 3.0 (/u/STARMEDIC_HQ)
    When asked about solo-piloting an Idris, Erin replied "Of course you can fly an Idris by your own, but you cannot fully operate it by your own. The Idris is therefore made for groups. Also it
    would be good to perform drills with your group to be effective in live action." (/u/fr4nticstar)

And people actually believe all that  :doh:
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 08:41:21 AM by Motto »

 

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