Author Topic: Star Citizen General BS  (Read 472430 times)

kaylani.larelli

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Re: Star Citizen - General
« Reply #2145 on: June 26, 2018, 08:28:53 AM »
Interesting spectrum post concerning IFCS with pdf documentation.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/50259/thread/ifcs-q-a
IFCS Q&A
discussion
Yesterday at 7:05 pm
Not long ago, following the 3.0 release, IFCS was an unstable mess. Since then, I have refactored IFCS, and this refactor was released as part of a 3.1 patch, restoring smooth, stable and responsive flight control. This was a major milestone in the development of the SC flight model, and while it isn't yet as solid as I want it to be (ESP broke during this refactor, but is improving as of 3.2), I believe we've reached a point where it would be valuable to present to the community a detailed description of the flight system I've been building for Star Citizen over the last 5 years.

I have presented the document as a PDF, which you can find at this link:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1poxfPYfm32r84G4WWWJ6uK-rU6ijl85g

Lurker here. Scanning this document makes me feel absolutely awful for the poor physics guy who is stuck putting in all this highly intelligent effort into a project that will probably never come to full fruition.

Also made me wonder if part of the general bugginess in SC is caused by individual ship designers not being able to fully grasp the complexities of the physics models they are dealing with:

Quote
Because the flight model in SC is complex, I have provided designers with a goal-based method for
tuning our ships, allowing them to focus on how they want the ships to perform rather than how to
achieve that performance within the simulation.

That introduces HUGE gray areas for the code to totally screw up the translation between the user's control input and the ship designer's choices and the actual underlying physics system!
« Last Edit: June 26, 2018, 08:30:52 AM by kaylani.larelli »

N0mad

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Re: Star Citizen - General
« Reply #2146 on: June 26, 2018, 10:15:44 AM »
Let's be honest here, the Physics of flight is standard stuff, especially in a vacuum. Coding the flight model to feel good to the player is hard though.

But here's the thing, almost none of the ships in Star Citizen are really designed to fly in space, or even in atmosphere. They're designed to look good, with almost no consideration for function. And if you're going to the trouble to calculate the performance based on thruster position and power then this matters. So clearly, despite all the physics in that document, they still just have a flight model similar to the Wind Commander games.

Gendo

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Re: Star Citizen - General
« Reply #2147 on: June 26, 2018, 11:30:18 AM »
Let's be honest here, the Physics of flight is standard stuff, especially in a vacuum. Coding the flight model to feel good to the player is hard though.

But here's the thing, almost none of the ships in Star Citizen are really designed to fly in space, or even in atmosphere. They're designed to look good, with almost no consideration for function. And if you're going to the trouble to calculate the performance based on thruster position and power then this matters. So clearly, despite all the physics in that document, they still just have a flight model similar to the Wind Commander games.

Runways in Space; why canít croberts get away from this schlock???

N0mad

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Re: Star Citizen - General
« Reply #2148 on: June 26, 2018, 02:29:45 PM »
Runways in Space; why canít croberts get away from this schlock???

Because he saw Star Wars when he was a kid with their space dogfights and said "I want that".

Thing about Star Wars is that George Lucas based all the space combat on old WW2 movies. The Death Star trench run was a sci-fi version of Dam Busters. And he treated the X-wings and Tie fighters like Spitfires and Messerschmitt duelling over the English Channel. He even cut WW2 dogfight movie footage into the film to show it to the producers before the special effects were available. George Lucas was responsible for a whole generation of Sci-fi Tv / Films and Video games which thought that flying in space involved a) some sort of aerodynamic design and b) was a bit like flying in air. That's one of the reasons why Babylon 5 was so good, other than the ongoing story arc, it had ships which used real Newtonian physics - ships with big thrusters fore and aft for better manoeuvrability (whether you actually need manned space 'fighters' at all in the future is really a discussion for another time).

Chris Roberts never really got the memo though. For someone who has spent his life in Sci-fi, he's far better at the Fiction bit and seems to know next to nothing about the Science.

Aya Reiko

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Re: Star Citizen - General
« Reply #2149 on: June 26, 2018, 11:15:09 PM »
Chris Roberts never really got the memo though. For someone who has spent his life in Sci-fi, he's far better at the Fiction bit and seems to know next to nothing about the Science.

Robby is that dumbass kid at school who chases trends because he thinks it'll make him look cool.  (Instead, the only thing he succeeds at is making himself look like... well... a dumbass.)

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - General
« Reply #2150 on: June 27, 2018, 07:49:14 AM »
While some of that is probably true, my take on all of this is that once he figured out that he could keep raising money by making promises (most of which were actually prompted by the backers) he knew he couldn't possibly keep, he just kept going.

That he can't sell enough $45 copies of the game to sustain the studios, is the reason they have to keep selling JPEGs and making promises. Really, think about it a bit, and it has all the makings of a Ponzi scheme.

Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

jwh1701

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Re: Star Citizen - General
« Reply #2151 on: June 27, 2018, 11:23:38 AM »
Another interesting post:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/8u538x/50_player_group/

BitchFantastik
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16 hours ago

I was there too! Here's another angle https://i.imgur.com/6EDNR2q.jpg

Also, thanks for trying to push my 600i debris out of the way ;) ...turns out they aren't meant to hold 50 people.

What they left out:
1. Private Server
2. Ship failed to function every time.
3. Mod states toilets caused 600i failure
4. Seats still eat you.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/277951253
02h54m43s
Near the end states CIG has done a super job with patch.

jwh1701

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Re: Star Citizen - General
« Reply #2152 on: June 27, 2018, 12:20:55 PM »
I was able to get a little time and read thorough the ifcs doc. Seems like they have implemented a lot of assistance. I would only be able to related to anything stated by cross referencing the old ED physic videos since I have much flight time in ED. But I'm not sure if that is even possible as that would be the only way to understand the jargon. I read through a lot of the responses and wonder if anyone that still has SC access and understands the doc could comment. I always question anything they publish and wonder if this is just to excite the spenders and bring in new money.

BigM

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Re: Star Citizen - General
« Reply #2153 on: June 27, 2018, 01:39:29 PM »
I was able to get a little time and read thorough the ifcs doc. Seems like they have implemented a lot of assistance. I would only be able to related to anything stated by cross referencing the old ED physic videos since I have much flight time in ED. But I'm not sure if that is even possible as that would be the only way to understand the jargon. I read through a lot of the responses and wonder if anyone that still has SC access and understands the doc could comment. I always question anything they publish and wonder if this is just to excite the spenders and bring in new money.

It's always about the money.  :grin:

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - General
« Reply #2154 on: June 27, 2018, 02:37:19 PM »
Another interesting post:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/8u538x/50_player_group/

BitchFantastik
32 points ∑
16 hours ago

I was there too! Here's another angle https://i.imgur.com/6EDNR2q.jpg

Also, thanks for trying to push my 600i debris out of the way ;) ...turns out they aren't meant to hold 50 people.

What they left out:
1. Private Server
2. Ship failed to function every time.
3. Mod states toilets caused 600i failure
4. Seats still eat you.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/277951253
02h54m43s
Near the end states CIG has done a super job with patch.

They want to believe
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

jwh1701

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Re: Star Citizen - General
« Reply #2155 on: June 28, 2018, 05:51:21 AM »
An other day in ptu

https://streamable.com/43c4x

Guy somehow clips through the ship, you catch a glimpse of him in the floor right before the pilot turns and is able to go right up to the controls.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2018, 06:05:13 AM by jwh1701 »

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - General
« Reply #2156 on: June 28, 2018, 08:42:17 AM »
600i capacity stress test sucsfl !

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/277951253

Meanwhile in chat:







Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

N0mad

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Re: Star Citizen - General
« Reply #2157 on: June 28, 2018, 08:53:03 AM »
LOL

Bring back the death ramps and the amazing Wonka elevator - they were the best part of the game.

I'm telling you, it's Goat simulator in space... just without the Goats.

jwh1701

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Re: Star Citizen - General
« Reply #2158 on: June 28, 2018, 09:06:14 AM »
This was set to official yesterday, shows how ridiculous the game has become. Spend 1k and you get your questions answered. I was down voted to the deepest realms of reddit on this thread. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/8ubgwj/one_of_the_benefits_of_concierge_status_getting/

kaylani.larelli

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Re: Star Citizen - General
« Reply #2159 on: June 28, 2018, 09:42:37 AM »
I was able to get a little time and read thorough the ifcs doc. Seems like they have implemented a lot of assistance. I would only be able to related to anything stated by cross referencing the old ED physic videos since I have much flight time in ED. But I'm not sure if that is even possible as that would be the only way to understand the jargon. I read through a lot of the responses and wonder if anyone that still has SC access and understands the doc could comment. I always question anything they publish and wonder if this is just to excite the spenders and bring in new money.

With this IFCS doc I got the sense that the physics guy just desperately wants people to see and understand all the work and knowledge he has put in over the course of the project, since it is obviously being wasted by the current game experience. I imagine anyone with real expertise stuck at CIG right now who can see the end coming would want to show it isn't their fault.

 

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