Author Topic: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within  (Read 187521 times)

Kastenbrust

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #195 on: August 27, 2017, 09:54:48 PM »
What are the 400 staff actually doing ?

They actually have some great developers, and some of the best digital artists in the industry, but this is an academic case study in poor project management, and how terrible project management can lead amazing people to produce very little with a lot of money and time.

For starters Chris Roberts has a history of fucking up projects, and got forcefully taken off his pride and joy Freelancer by Microsoft, who had to intervene to actually get the game finished when it was massively delayed and over budget. This is why many many many studios and publishers, including famous names like EA, refused Chris Roberts for years when Chris went begging to get Star Citizen made with their money. In the end he "decided he didn't need a publisher" and used Kickstarter backers, which we now know was a massive mistake, because for a project this size there needs to be a separation of power between the money and the idea people, which is why Publishers are essential.

Next because Chris is such an awful project manager, he doesn't know what virtues to look for in other people to make good managers, and so he's hired a load of school children to lead the development, who probably don't even know what a Gantt chart is before they started working at CIG / Foundry 42. One guy was fucking stacking shelves in a supermarket and now he's second in charge of production at the biggest studio in the UK, literally 2 years later, I'm not even joking. No development experience, and he started at CIG answering customer complaints as a customer service phone agent, then got promoted to second head honcho of project management?

When this does crash Chris Roberts will be seriously screwed, because lawyers will start asking what project management qualifications the staff Chris chose to manage the company had, PRINCE 2? Don't think so, APM Chartered? LOL What's APM? I think maybe Chris chose these young people because they're incredibly naive and wont ask where all the laundered money is disappearing to. They're just star struck to be chosen to have such a prestigious job at a young age and will be left holding the bag when the project implodes.

In business project management is the most essential thing, above all else, even more important than the product believe it or not. Good project managers will lead projects and businesses to thrive, even with terrible staff or products. Bad project managers will kill a golden goose even if it's shitting gold with the best staff in town.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2017, 09:57:22 PM by Kastenbrust »

StanTheMan

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #196 on: August 28, 2017, 12:29:55 AM »
Sure but as a high quality professional at what point does that crap rub off on you and taint your resume/CV ?

If a relative novice can sit and watch that presentation and draw the conclusion that this is an unmitigated disaster that is going no where fast and ripping off tens of thousands of gamers why arent these high quality employees gtfo because they must surely recognise this is undermining their professionalism.

$ will explain some remaining but these people must know how badly this is all being run and how so little is being produced.

You can excuse people a few years into their careers but once you can confidently call yourself an expert and have 5 years under your belt you have to have the confidence to know you have marketable skills and distance yourself from such a project.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2017, 01:14:18 AM by StanTheMan »

Motto

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #197 on: August 28, 2017, 02:48:58 AM »
Be that as it may, but you still have to earn your money. So working for CIG might be not the best thing for your career, but at least it pays the bills. A problem Chris won't have when he's in jail.

dsmart

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #198 on: August 28, 2017, 06:24:49 AM »
Clearly, you are mistaken. How else would you explain almost 1 million revenue on a bogus funding tracker with the selling of pictures in just 2 days?

Yeah. Plus, don't forget, I'm a cranky old failed gamedev who is jealous of Chris Roberts. So that's why I keep hating on him.

As to that revenue, according to stats, it appears to be the same 2K or so whales. And the it's still trending downwards, compared to other similar events.

What are the 400 staff actually doing ?

That's the thing, nobody knows. Though, according to my sources it's all about engine issues, Chris's overreaching demands, rework etc.

Also, don't forget that NOBODY on that team of 500 (past and present) has EVER worked on an MMO game, let alone a game of this scope.

Seriously, right now, there isn't a sensible gamedev or gamer who would look at what they have right now, and say "Yeah, that's a game alright".
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

dsmart

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #199 on: August 28, 2017, 06:26:26 AM »
What are the 400 staff actually doing ?

They actually have some great developers, and some of the best digital artists in the industry, but this is an academic case study in poor project management, and how terrible project management can lead amazing people to produce very little with a lot of money and time.

For starters Chris Roberts has a history of fucking up projects, and got forcefully taken off his pride and joy Freelancer by Microsoft, who had to intervene to actually get the game finished when it was massively delayed and over budget. This is why many many many studios and publishers, including famous names like EA, refused Chris Roberts for years when Chris went begging to get Star Citizen made with their money. In the end he "decided he didn't need a publisher" and used Kickstarter backers, which we now know was a massive mistake, because for a project this size there needs to be a separation of power between the money and the idea people, which is why Publishers are essential.

Next because Chris is such an awful project manager, he doesn't know what virtues to look for in other people to make good managers, and so he's hired a load of school children to lead the development, who probably don't even know what a Gantt chart is before they started working at CIG / Foundry 42. One guy was fucking stacking shelves in a supermarket and now he's second in charge of production at the biggest studio in the UK, literally 2 years later, I'm not even joking. No development experience, and he started at CIG answering customer complaints as a customer service phone agent, then got promoted to second head honcho of project management?

When this does crash Chris Roberts will be seriously screwed, because lawyers will start asking what project management qualifications the staff Chris chose to manage the company had, PRINCE 2? Don't think so, APM Chartered? LOL What's APM? I think maybe Chris chose these young people because they're incredibly naive and wont ask where all the laundered money is disappearing to. They're just star struck to be chosen to have such a prestigious job at a young age and will be left holding the bag when the project implodes.

In business project management is the most essential thing, above all else, even more important than the product believe it or not. Good project managers will lead projects and businesses to thrive, even with terrible staff or products. Bad project managers will kill a golden goose even if it's shitting gold with the best staff in town.

I agree with this assessment. They have quite a few good people there; all trying to earn a living while working to make his "dreams" come true. But it doesn't matter. You can have the best minds on a project, but if the management fails, so too will the project.
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

David-2

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #200 on: August 28, 2017, 07:59:40 AM »
I was thinking about CIG's recent chart of shipstopper bugs and the trendline that showed they were getting them fixed.

Ignore the fact that they used the standard chart-fud technique of dropping off the bottom of the Y-axis - and that the trendline shows those 72 shipstopper bugs (or however many they were) getting done in 2 or 3 years.

Consider instead that you're planning a kick-ass demo for a major show that is intended to blow away all criticism and keep the money rolling in.  You've got that list of 72 bugs in front of you to remind you what to avoid and you carefully script a demo where ...

  • Some players can see the NPCs and others can't.
  • Your ground vehicle explodes when you try to drive it up a ramp.
  • Major players crash right out of the game.
  • Etc. etc.

Backers have to ask:  If those bugs weren't the shipstoppers - what do the shipstoppers look like?

(And could that be why they haven't gotten a "patch" since ... what, April?)

Note that there is no objective industry standard definition of shipstopper: It's a relative thing that varies based on your project's funding and how desperate you are to ship vs. your other goals (e.g., happy customers).
« Last Edit: August 28, 2017, 08:04:53 AM by David-2 »

dsmart

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #201 on: August 28, 2017, 08:10:45 AM »
Well that's why, as of this minute, there are over 3000+ bugs in 2.6.3. Now add all the new ones from 3.0, and you'll know precisely how many shitstoppers are inbound.
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

dsmart

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #202 on: August 28, 2017, 08:25:09 AM »
Goon Discord commentary on GC2017. It's hilarious.  :laugh:

Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

dsmart

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #203 on: August 28, 2017, 08:34:16 AM »
Also, compare GC2016 to GC2017 to see how far smoke & mirrors have come



Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

Serendipity

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #204 on: August 31, 2017, 06:06:36 AM »
Interesting point made on spectrum by community fella, they could have shown just a pre recorded demo and not done anything live. Yet they did it, warts and all.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/lets-be-honest-about-gamescom-2017/428472

'No smoke and mirrors here folks!'

Nice.

GaryII

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #205 on: August 31, 2017, 06:40:46 AM »

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/lets-be-honest-about-gamescom-2017/428472


And ?
1) This does not change that demo was totally scripted and current v3.0 state = totally broken mess...
2) and that face thing total waste of time, basically Sandworm v2.0 - probably never make into game..in case there is a game in the end at all = waste of backers money and dev time...     

   btw after Gamecon i noticed increased CIG employee activity in Spectrum, I guess to damage control...they know that presentation was average at best...       



Serendipity

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #206 on: August 31, 2017, 06:55:17 AM »
Of course it was scripted. It was a demo to show certain things in game. No point showing one guy just flying off into the black whistling a merry tune!

Your opinion on the face thing is yours. I thought it was pretty cool and am looking forward to having a go myself. I also like the head tracking feature too, excellent way to raise my situational awareness.

dsmart

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #207 on: August 31, 2017, 07:25:25 AM »
Interesting point made on spectrum by community fella, they could have shown just a pre recorded demo and not done anything live. Yet they did it, warts and all.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/lets-be-honest-about-gamescom-2017/428472

'No smoke and mirrors here folks!'

Nice.

That's all largely irrelevant. Whether they tried to hide it or not, doesn't make it any less of a disaster for a 6 year, $158M project. The same 3.0 demo concept shown last year, and which, aside from the worm glitch, went off without a hitch, is still not in the game. And that too was staged, and not a pre-recorded demo.

Nobody has been knocking them for bugs and crashes because we all expect it. Ignoring that simple fact, is precisely the reason why you all are contributing to the slow and steady collapse of the project.
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

Serendipity

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #208 on: August 31, 2017, 07:39:36 AM »
How am I contributing to the fictional collapse of the project?

dsmart

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Re: GamesCom 2017 - The Hilarity Within
« Reply #209 on: August 31, 2017, 07:43:27 AM »
How am I contributing to the fictional collapse of the project?

Because YOU guys are the ones fighting a losing battle, while ignoring the realities of the project. Had YOU guys held CIG accountable back in 2015, they project would probably have either collapsed by now, or moved farther along. You know this. So it's not hard to understand, especially when people in your own group are only now admitting to it.

When I spent my own money on legal bills, while you guys were spending it on JPEGS, you all all were still attacking me. Yet, months after my attorneys communicated my demands to CIG, 2 (refunds, dev schedule) out of 3 (financial accountability) things did end up happening, despite CIG rejecting - in writing - those demands.

But I'm the bad guy. Just wait; the worst is yet to come. And LOL if you think GC2017 was the worst of it.
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

 

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