Author Topic: 3.0 Progress Watch  (Read 124100 times)

lurker_404

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Re: 3.0 Released To PTU
« Reply #75 on: November 29, 2017, 03:27:33 PM »
The funny thing about this galactic map was the "VISUAL UNAVAILABLE" ... for a map !   :vince:

N0mad

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Re: 3.0 Released To PTU
« Reply #76 on: November 29, 2017, 03:29:44 PM »
Someone was trying to be funny on Reddit (top post!) except look at the FPS in the screenshot  :laugh:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/7ge134/cig_developer_caught_in_action_fixing_in_game_npc/

dsmart

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Re: 3.0 Released To PTU
« Reply #77 on: November 29, 2017, 05:00:32 PM »
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

StanTheMan

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Re: 3.0 Released To PTU
« Reply #78 on: November 30, 2017, 08:57:05 AM »

AncoGaming

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Re: 3.0 Released To PTU
« Reply #79 on: November 30, 2017, 03:45:16 PM »
Yo, I'm new here, so let me tell you that I am still a backer since 2014, Concierge and participant of past PTUs 1st wave as well as the current "PTU". I've been active on the Issue Council (IC) and did my best to play QA in my free time for years. Now, don't judge, hear me out.

I've been following Derek's Twitter and links to his rundowns of recent events ever since that guy first spoke up, and frankly I have nothing bad to say about all that if he continues to leave the Germans out of it. A singular, slowly dying game magazine that's mostly written by and for idiots does not represent us, and I think this point gets lost easily if you live way across the pond.

I've gotten the invitation to this PTU second hand after Evocati because somehow I am still a reliable person for CIG to give me access to 1st wave without spending a dime. Huge shitstorm, by the way, because some Concierge and recent Subscribers were promised that they could just buy their way into Testing and guess what? It didn't happen for a few days because fuck you, that's why.

So let me tell you some things about this PTU from my perspective, after being actively involved since 2.0:

People on Spectrum have found excuses and talk about priorities all the time, that doesn't change some facts.

Fact1: PTU 3.0 is one year late, and CIG have in house QA testers plus Evocati, who I think may have adressed the unplayable state these builds are in.

Fact2: If PU 3.0 goes live with this kind of performace... the community, the press, Reddit and certain individuals (yeah, you too) will have a field day and controversy will spark to never before known levels, no matter what is and what isn't planned for 3.1, that won't matter any more then.

Oh, and about the Netcode issue... here's another fact: Around 400 people working on this game, but

that mostly explains it. This game is too artistically heavy. Almost no one is working on codebase. Network code optimisation requires alot of manpower.

But of course, I've read there are plenty! There is at least one "Bug Smasher" I've seen on AtV, parked away somewhere in a cellar, with a screen full of code in front of him.
For a game of that scope, I fear even 20 won't be enough. Unfortunately, these 20 don't paint ships you can sell or draw up some procedural stuff to go along with marketing. From a financial point of view, these are nerds who only cost money and always interfere with the "vision" by saying things like:"Guys... this won't work."

But seriously, while Designers and Marketing dream up new worlds and features and sell virtual property on a virtual "vision", the very foundation of anything remotely playable is screwed. I know because I've tested every build for years on end.
 
If I was a publisher, I'd close the studios and kill off the project before more damage is done. After 5 years, it's too late to start from scratch with an adjusted "vision". This time, Microsoft won't step in to immediately park Roberts on the viewer ranks and then save what's left of the franchise. It will be Daikatana all the way, I fear, just much much bigger.

So I hope at least we're in for a PTU phase long enough to adress at least the issues which already, after a few days, got 1K plus votes over at the IC before shit hits the fan. Finding long winding explanations why these builds are so broken and being totally understanding if not ass-kissing may be very nice, but it won't help anyone. It looks more like Stockholm Syndrome at this point.

And by the way, I won't get banned for writing with mostly sane people outside of Spectrum for a change, don't worry. Nothing will happen to me or my account after posting this, since the overall reception of PTU 3.0 resulted in an uproar by people who just bought a subscription and/or some ships to cross the border to Concierge only to find, well, this. Apparently no one told them about QA work for free in a game they've already payed for years ago.


Motto

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Re: 3.0 Released To PTU
« Reply #80 on: November 30, 2017, 03:49:45 PM »
You forgot to mention that Derek Smart was right. Actually, that's all you had to say  :D

AncoGaming

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Re: 3.0 Released To PTU
« Reply #81 on: November 30, 2017, 03:57:01 PM »
As I said, I am new here. So you'll read this intro as happily excited as everyone else, including Derek Smart, and you'll like it.

Star Chip

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Re: 3.0 Released To PTU
« Reply #82 on: November 30, 2017, 04:36:17 PM »
The problem with net code is not the lack of engineer, any real engineer would tell Crobert this game is impossible and immediately fired.

Scruffpuff

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Re: 3.0 Released To PTU
« Reply #83 on: November 30, 2017, 04:42:01 PM »
As I said, I am new here. So you'll read this intro as happily excited as everyone else, including Derek Smart, and you'll like it.

I know I'm not excited about it - I'm depressed about it.  This goes farther than just not getting a space game.  This can harm crowdfunding, whatever European incentives CIG dipped into, etc.  It might make publishers even worse than they are now once they see what can be gotten away with.

I don't speak for Derek but I doubt he's happy about it either, aside from feeling some degree of vindication.  He backed the project early on after all - you generally don't do that just to shit on it.  I backed too, because I believed it looked to be fun.

This whole thing was nothing but a colossal letdown.

ecg

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Re: 3.0 Released To PTU
« Reply #84 on: November 30, 2017, 05:15:31 PM »
As I said, I am new here. So you'll read this intro as happily excited as everyone else, including Derek Smart, and you'll like it.
This whole thing was nothing but a colossal letdown.

Ditto - I think most here are massively disappointed in what SC could have been. I was in early on (Oct 2012) and stuck it out until earlier this year. We all wanted this to succeed.
This just might turn out to be one of the largest industry train wrecks and could have lasting repercussions on crowdfunding projects.

Aya Reiko

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Re: 3.0 Released To PTU
« Reply #85 on: November 30, 2017, 11:58:37 PM »
You forgot Fact #3:  What's they think is an acceptable 3.0 is extremely scaled down from what was originally promised, the whole system in its entirety.  Never mind most of it is empty, useless space.

StanTheMan

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Re: 3.0 Released To PTU
« Reply #86 on: December 01, 2017, 07:37:47 AM »
As I said, I am new here. So you'll read this intro as happily excited as everyone else, including Derek Smart, and you'll like it.

I know I'm not excited about it - I'm depressed about it.  This goes farther than just not getting a space game.  This can harm crowdfunding, whatever European incentives CIG dipped into, etc.  It might make publishers even worse than they are now once they see what can be gotten away with.

I don't speak for Derek but I doubt he's happy about it either, aside from feeling some degree of vindication.  He backed the project early on after all - you generally don't do that just to shit on it.  I backed too, because I believed it looked to be fun.

This whole thing was nothing but a colossal letdown.

I suppose the catastrophe could result in improvements to how games are funded in the future.

As Derek and others regularly say, at this point people largely have themselves to blame.

So lets enjoy the fallout.

IME people are so easily sucked into things through a lack of due diligence, arrogance, stupidity etc and insufficiently self aware to get themselves out.

They only learn by being ripped off - so let them learn.

If I was CRoberts facing a court room perhaps I would saying .. "all the signs were there and we did keep saying to them ....and they kept giving us money and telling us we were dong a good enough job ..."

hurrdurr

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Re: 3.0 Released To PTU
« Reply #87 on: December 01, 2017, 12:15:29 PM »
The problem with net code is not the lack of engineer, any real engineer would tell Crobert this game is impossible and immediately fired.

That is part of the problem, but it actually goes deeper. Now I have only have maybe 5 years of professional game development experience (but over 25 years programming experience and on many large projects), but there were issues that have been bothering me about Star Citizen from the 2nd year of development.

There are basically no veteran [game] developers working on this massive, gargantuan project. Let's ignore their semi-recent capture of engine people with the fall of Crytek, nepotism, and use of some useless people from prior projects connected to Chris Roberts for a moment...

What was it that I noticed with increasing trepidation early on in SC dev? A shocking, blaring missing list of real (experienced) veteran game dev, namely: UI engineers,  Gameplay engineers, I/O engineers, game directors (Finance, HR, etc.), level designers, rendering engineers, core engineers, online engineers, build engineers, etc. I mean :wtchris: .

Now, another almost criminal action, all the missing experienced concept artists, texture artists, art directors, lighters (lighting), VFX artists, UI designers, game designers, concept artists, audio designers, sound designers, music engineers, video editors, graphics editors, animators, riggers, character designers/artists, project managers, MOCAP director, and so on.

Almost no-one working on this project has any :nws: experience in game development.

I remember watching some videos from the early "Around the 'Verse" and guys mentioning that they were basically teenagers that had been pulled out of school, not even finishing their degrees to work on StarCitizen  :vince: :wtf: 

Then my gut sank even more when we got "behind the scenes" looks at some of the 3rd party studios that had been contracted out to for work on things like the FPS part of the engine (e.g. Star Marines) and we'd see some clip of two guys in their mom's basement (which was their development "HQ").  :wtf:

Yes there have been exceptions, however, they have not been the rule, which is unacceptable considering the vast amount of resources this project had to bear.

Let's not forget that many of those exceptions ended up quickly leaving or getting fired from the project and under strict NDAs.

What kind of project is it that actively hires droves of inexperienced people while at the same time causes actual professionals to be driven away?

Nothing good.

dsmart

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Re: 3.0 Released To PTU
« Reply #88 on: December 01, 2017, 02:43:00 PM »
I've been following Derek's Twitter and links to his rundowns of recent events ever since that guy first spoke up, and frankly I have nothing bad to say about all that if he continues to leave the Germans out of it. A singular, slowly dying game magazine that's mostly written by and for idiots does not represent us, and I think this point gets lost easily if you live way across the pond.

Wait! Wot? You are aware that the guys over at Gamestar.de started (just like CIG did) it first, right? Instead of focusing on Star Citizen, they spent time attacking me and Line Of Defense (a game also in development). Of course as these things, they hitched their horse to the wrong cart, seeing as CIG has proven me to be right over and over again.

Anyway, when I refer to those "Germans", I am speaking specifically about those guys, as well as the rabid German Shitizens. Obviously I am not irresponsible enough to paint all Germans with the same brush. Especially since I have lots of German friends, and have had Germans (one of my oldest friends worked with me on early Battlecruiser games, is German) working for me over the years. I don't know how my very public spat with those guys, somehow being misinterpreted as me be being against all Germans.
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

Star Chip

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Re: 3.0 Released To PTU
« Reply #89 on: December 01, 2017, 02:50:22 PM »
If CIG don;t have experienced dev work on this project of historical magnitude, then what did Crobert does with the 180m? Did he spend those on actors and motion cap? Now I have 0 years game dev experience, but I know something is wrong when they decided to go wild with Crobert vision, and the engine problem will be doomed from start.

 

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